The IAS Has Failed India and Must Change: Former RBI Governor Duvvuri Subbarao
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- In a 33-minute interview to Karan Thapar for The Wire, Dr. Subbarao was asked if he was saying that the IAS is neither as competent as it should be nor as honest and incorruptible as it needs to be and he replied: “The short answer is yes”.
Dr. Subbarao said once upon a time the IAS had a “formidable reputation for competence, commitment and integrity” but that’s “unravelled”. Today “the IAS has lost its ethos and its way. Ineptitude, indifference and corruption have crept in”.
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Why only lateral joinees? Promote non IAS bureaucrats based on performance. IAS simply parachutes people into top positions based on an exam that has nothing to do with being a good administrator.
I had not heard of him till he became the governor of RBI and he is my most admired RBI governor. In that capacity,he dealt with Chidambaram very firmly and didn't allow the RBI's role to be diluted. At one stage when Chidambaram as the finance minister was trying to undermine the RBI, he had stood firm and said something like this," We should be thankful that there is the RBI" His words might have been different.
Even Raghuram Rajan didn't agree to demontization , but modi didn't care his expertise and suggestions. We faced worst days.
Sir,
Mr P Chidambaram must be appreciated if not for the part of PV Narasinhma Rao and Prof Manmohan Singh team which economic reforms team [1] then at a minimum, for expediting funds for weapons, equipment and the fence along the Punjab border during the 80s [2].
Regards
[1] Gurucharan Das, India Unbound
[2] Sarab Jit Singh, Operation Black Thunder
And where has gone such Governors now.
But inflation became a problem under his tenure.
sir/s, first your observation on chidambaram is in bad state, without basis.
i agree with Mr. D. Subba Rao. In our days in 1982 when we were preparing for the Civil Services, we were told that slowly IAS is becoming I ALSO SIGN and the IPS is becoming I PREFER SALUTES. The deterioration is dangerous to the bureaucracy in the future.
What advice would you like to give for the young generation who are prep for ias and eager to be in public service
Means that from 1982 itself you had disrespect for IAS/ IPS and you are the founder member who started deterioration of bureaucracy....
@@messpice : Measure how bookish they are. Filter out the bookish. Bring in self-starters. Being in the intrapreneurial - those who are as good as a mango seed is. It grows exponentially. It learns by daring to try and learn fast from its mistakes.
@@messpice Don't go to civil services if can't stand your ground at any cost as your allegiance should be to people not politicians. Who are rich enough or enough caste base to antagonise politicians and still survive should take job. Two IAS are jailed in AP for blindly signing files fearing CM and his power. They should be ready to work any where if transferred and care a hoot even dismissed and capable of challenging Govt legally,of course, shouldn't have done anything illegally, against rules.
@@subbaraotanguturu9271 thank you 🙏
Mind blowing wisdom, the then RBI governor and now... Class personified of the previous governments and the bureaucrats.
The IAS guy is the jack of all trades and master of none. Consequently he pretents to be the consummate expert of any department that he finds himself posted in.
A brilliant analysis of 'the system of IAS from the lenses of delivery and performance' from a person of the highest integrity , one of the rarest gems of the system itself. Thank you Karan for conducting it so well with your own brilliant insights.
Another issue with IAS cadre is they are generalists in skills. We need experts of the fields, to drive and innovate , not somebody who spends a year to understand the field only to find that she is transferred to next portfolio.
I think that's covered in the last part of the interview, we need both. Btw we do have specialists and the recent Karmayogi programme for government officers is working towards that
They become experts at a specific portfolio along the time and they have experts working under them.
Experts are in the banks, helping embezzlement of crore of rupees. Expert journalists have been involved in Radia Tapes. This nation has been enjoying free elections, courtesy, Sheshan and lots of IAS officers, who ensure free and fare elections, when the writ of election commission is the final word. Blame politicians for the ills of the country and justice system, which allow the corrupt politicians to go Scot free after dragging the cases for 20-30 years.
And whose fault is that? IAS officers can only do so much when it’s the ruling elites running the show. Honest & upright officers are punished & corrupt ones, rewarded. The real problem is us..people. What are we expecting when we keep electing either corrupt or divisive or both kind of people to represents us. Over 40% of MPs have criminal records and more so in state legislators. The reform must first come from the election commission & the electorates.
they're not generalist, they're useless, corrupt and incompetence
Want to be doctor in govt hospital? Yes!
Want to be patient in govt hospital? No!
Want to be teacher in govt school? Yes!
Want to be student in govt school? No!
Want a job in IAS? Yes!
IAS has to be reformed into a Meritocracy- ABSOLUTELY! 💯
Thank u karan sir, for this great interview. I admire your professionalism. One of the best Indian journalist.
All of us have. Made a mess of our own country.
yes, all of us !
Many living with india some upper castes of some states
True
Not all of us...but most of the us. But yeah...
Basically the politics and corrupt politicians are the main reason for this mess
Fantastic insight into the premier bureaucracy in India! Thank you both
I thank the Wire and Mr. Duvurri Subbarao for this candid and honest interview showing the viewers the ground reality.
OUTSTANDING INTERVIEW!!! WITH LOT OF SOLUTIONS .........THANKS WIRE FOR REMAINING STRONG AND STRENGTHENING OUR FOURTH PILLAR OF DEMOCRACY WHICH IS IN PATHETIC SHAPE RIGHT NOW!!!
JAI HIND!
it was since 2014. Wire is fighting alone since 2014 !
Why do you think its in pathetic shape?
@@premprasad3511 why do you think it's not pathetic ?
@@ageless1003 you just watched an unsympathetic interview where every word thats needed is pulled to hit at the IAS fraternity. Besides this ofcourse there's almost a daily badmouthing and slander of Modi and hindutva with shameless journalists presenting falsities as gospel truths !
If indeed the media is pathetic, it's only because of the disgusting brazenness with which it promotes falsi narratives based on cherry picked incidents !
bro whats wrong in saying truth about people who took pensions from British government and never participated in freedom struggle, didn't raise national flag at their HQ for 30 years after independence, doesnt believe in our constitution ?...create riots in country and take out shobha yatra for rapists.
Very good interview. Looks like we need major reforms for the IAS Officers and also IPS Officers ... to work indepedently rather than extended arm of the ruling party... then only we can see the changes....How to get this done is a real question ?
As long as political leadership needs corrupt officials to work for them the rule of 'Be corrupt or quit' will prevail. Very few will throw away opportunity for promotions and plum postings to remain honest.
IPS -India's politicians servents,
also, majority of these people, especially ones in IPS cadre, get carried away with the power...their psychological conscience to be constantly checked by the system
I agree, IAS started producing super clerks to do administrative works. It's a sad affair, only few act according to the conscience of this country.
@Jithu Jith : It's not only about selection, but creating a transparent political atmosphere around them.
😂😂 Super Clerks ! 👌
@@rajiphilips5937 It is about the selection. The Exam frankly is shit. Nowhere in the world is the bureaucracy recruited via such a random and frivolous exam.
Excellent interview. Amazing questions and replies. Thank you guys.
I second that
Very happy to ge. t to hear Dr Subbarao- thankfully and for a change , Karan Thapar is patient and doing a decent job of an interview. A huge bonus for me
from recruitment to training service and post retirement huge amount of tax payers money is spent on an IAS and the quality it adds to society is not more than HR in an IT companies
Exactly they are just liability nothing else.
Very True.
Dooba Dia Hai Desh Ko IAS Aur BJP Ki Governance Ne.
In terms of governance, BJP has achieved whatever they wanted very effectively. GST, toilets, Ayushyman bharat, free cylinders, jan dhan, adhar, free grains, vaccines etc.
It's BJP gave some respect comparatively, but of course politician is a politician who always want his way. Congi to every party want them to do what they want. Bad apples are there in every party. All IAS should have allegiance to people not to corrupt politicians, parties. If something goes wrong it's they suffer as they are accountable not politicians. 8 IAS just allowed to escape from going to jail court itself to keep the dignity of their post.
.
This is Amazingly Beautiful..hope this debate & exchage of ideas.. reaches Lbsnaa..reverberates..pulsate..in the minds & hearts of civil servants..for an aspiring New India..jai Hind
Wire as a channel is doing some of the greatest interviews for Indian News media on the tube.
Yes
We once had great honest people like D Subbarao part of the system
It happened in Telangana, IAS officer is favoured to CM and he resigned the very next day he was given Ministry.
IAS is just became other rubber stamp of government employees become slaves of political party.
Today's IAS officers are just more of Coaching Sheeps, rather than Passionate on Analysing the problem and try to find a solution that is indigenous and must done a work on issues, field that their body of work is taken into consideration and valuated.
Very true
These colonial cadres think that they are privileged class. Just remove their privileges and consider them as only high official without tag 'IAS' etc.
इनके सरसे आयएएस का क्राऊन उतार दो ...जिसके कारण वे लोगों से सरदार जैसे बिहेव करते हैं !
It’s been a mystery to me why it’s almost impossible for a public servant to get fired. Their salaries are paid for by people who are taxpayers, business owners without any safety net, employees who can and do get penalised for bad performance.
Yeah
It's not incone tax payers like businessman who pay for their salary. Even the poor make their contribution by way of paying indirect taxes.
@@sunilmundhara5814 yes That is why accountability of these officers must be increased and scrutiny should be higher. Atleast politicians can be voted out for incompetence
Agree with every word he has said..
Another insightful interview. A must watch for everyone.
*The problem contemporarily is that talented people who could otherwise have been getting multi crore packages in and outside India are entering the IAS/IPS, and the reason itself makes the whole argument ominous of a dark days ahead, people today want to enter the services for sheer social prestige, for money(sychophancy of netas would lead you to it) and they start thinking themselves of as 'rulers'. This is the reason why in past some years the IAS/IPS resigning their jobs have increased, you enter the services with this perception and when you find out the reality or couldn't stand to the actual needs of the task, you simply quit and run back to those multicrore packages. Ultimately it's the executive capacity and hence performance delivery of social benefit schemes which fails and the poor and vulnerable suffer.*
The problem is there is too much value associated with the service through social and political structures. Federally controlled value based system has to be eliminated and the powers have to be devaluated to the states. It's in the best interest of states to have competent civil officers than the federal govt creating a value system around the recruitment.
8 IAS's of the AP government were sentenced to a 2 week Jail time for defying the High court orders under the government instructions. But they appealed and apologised and hence the Highcourt pardoned and in punishment assigned them community service. The state of government institutions in AP is even more dismissal than that of the entire country.
Thank you so much for the interview
I was desperately waiting for this
Can't do anything. Country is good if politicians are good as all powers vested in them without accountability of any kind if they have jackal's intelligence as it's only bureaucracy which is accountable for all omissions not commissions as it goes to politician.
Brilliant as usual... Thank you Karan...
Great informative video on IAS thanks 👍👍👍🙏🙏
Very nice topic brought up in this interview.
Great interview 👍
Clean interview. Karan didn't bring much politics.
Thanks
This type of debate can only be on "THE WIRE" rest all Modia channels are busy in saving Govt. By defending Fuel price hike.
वेश्याएं पेट के लिए सिर्फ तन को बेचती हैं ..आत्मा नहीं ! वे आत्मसम्मान व आत्मा नहीं बेचती !भारत का मेनस्ट्रिम मिडिया तो वेश्याओं से भी गया -गुजरा है !
Wonderful caption as an key issue to be talked about. None ever could raise. In my academical period I had read, Shershah was a born ICS. After independence ICS, IPS had been too good till 1970 maintaining their gravity and decorum. As soon as Royal egoism entered all the scenario happened to be changed. All mixed up. Pride and self respect gone. loosing the. meaning of administration. Self interest had taken over the national interest.
If you were to become IAS, IPS, especially from middle class who badly depends on job only they make mincemeat of you if don't follow their orders by transferring to Naxalite infested areas if it's under their power to Anandaman.Only IAS from political, good caste support, rich who cares a hoot if transferred or even dismissed can survive in IAS, IPS cadres. It's stark reality. Two IAS faced long jail term and case is in listening stage in courts only due to following CMs orders.
Karan did not speak much and hence, this is a good interview.
Former RBI Governor Shri Duvvuri Subba Rao ji 🙏 - 100% True 👍 these rascal IAS Babus need to be kicked out of this world 🌎 where the sun never shines Hell along with the political parties who were.hand in glove with these corrupt officials so called otherwise better named as Rascals . Sheela Rao Aunty.
Forget evaluation of performance by IAS.
Look at how perceptions are created, how irrelevant issue are pushed up as priorities, how mainstream media plays ball with those in power and governance goes out of the window. Its all reduced to a game of perceptions, propaganda and distractions from real issues.
This is the reality of our current context.
After India's independence patriotism was visible in administration, banking, teaching, etc., almost in all sectors, however, post 70's we lost all those great people, values and since then it deteriorating only
Foremost thanks for having respectful Dr Subarao and his candid views. Here is what I found has gone wrong with IAS, IFS, IPS, IRS etc civil services. I am basing my points on the way commissioned officers are recruited in our combat armed services: Army, Navy & Air Force
1. Having got selected both for Navy first and Air force later, in both the rounds I found there was a"Psychologist" throughout the 5 days of selection process. There was a written test giving cases and seeking response to real life situations to assess individual about to become a commissioned officer for next 25-30 years will turn out to be good for services and India at large.
2. This expert watched each candidate in the group through out the 5 days and on the final day gave his opinion about each aspirant's psychological depth and state of mind in case the person may indeed becomes a commissioned officer. That opinion makes or break the candidate's selection and forms the vital inputs about the officer for his/her entire career, promotions, responsibilities given and integrity not only towards the services but to the Indian nationhood at large.
3. While serving as head of NICTU at LBSNAA, Mussoorie between 1991-95 (5 years) I did not find any such psychological evaluation is ever carried out for ONE CIVIL SERVANT PROBATIONER & IN SERVICE OFFICER. This honestly was and is shocking. Reason even today no evaluation of the Psychological state of mind is carried out at the time of entrance or during the promotion of these civil servants at every stage and posted to vital ministries.
4. This is the biggest drawback in the civil servants recruitment in India. Though the civil services have been inherited from the British system. But I am certain the British ensured they have a folder on each of the civil servant they recruited with periodic psychological assessment. But on transition after 1947 this has been cunningly eliminated as 100% of those recruited had been from upper caste till reservations for SC, ST kicked in with the adoption of the constitution.
5. Also again in a very cumming manner the technical.ministries such as Aviation, Health, Industry, Defence, Shipping, S&T, Transport, Railways, Mines, etc., were rarely given secretary and minister with Engineering, Medicine, Science, Geology etc background.
6. Today Dr Subarao is concerned about corruption and competence. Valid points for sure. But as a person who trained several batches of civil servants (new recruits and a n service officers) the thing pointed above are both the symptoms as well as the way out.
SC/ST who get into these services succumb to the lure of corruption more easily. They feel with their power, they should be up with the elites.
@@BABBOOBHUCHO first have guts to write your full name. Not abbreviation! Second since 1947 swarn jatis have been in 98% of all positions in bureaucracy starting from CJI, and going down till Patwari at village level. Yes Bahujans have been given Manuvadi Gobar since the creation of Mahavira (Jainism) in order to stop the spread of Buddhism movement against Brahmanvad. Imagine Ashoka the great had his empire spread from Afghanistan in west till Nagaland in east and Kanyakumari in South. And he became Buddhist after Kalinga battle in Orissa, which as I recall was the 84th battle he had fought during his tenure as the king. So, be honest to also speak out how swarn jatis have been responsible from BC era to date in the creation of the current situation. Now here is a challenge for you: show me in one history book of even pro RSS writers there ONE H-M RIOT ever took place under over 700 years of Muslims ruling in India. Yes, caste riots did take place but under the Rajwaras of Hindu Rajas under the Muslim Badshah. And it is not the swarn jatis which killed SC & STs but at the instigation of the swarn jatis Ahir, Jat, Gurjar, Yadav, Nishad, Prajapati, Teli etc from OBC were used to carry out the killings of the SC & ST. Swarn jatis only confined themselves to rape the women and young girls of SC, ST and even OBCs!
🙏🙏🙏🙏 thank you so much
We are in a Period where Videos of
an Officer Ordering Constables to
Target the Heads of Farmers came
Out and the dude was given a
Promotion by Bjp. 🤭
As if Congi done all greatly. It's Congi that made IAS, IPS do all kinds of wrong things. It's typical of every political party unfortunately. Two IASs jailed for doing what CM of Congi wanted to do and 8 IAS are in punishment period now only due to govt led by ex Congj using whom all blame Sonia for allowing to leave her party.
Excellent analogy between tennis and performance. Having played tennis, I know exactly what he means. Its the difference between players like Federer (who tries to finish points) vs a defensive player like Ramesh Krishnan who waits for his opponent to make errors. :)
I don’t quite agree with that analogy though. Djokovic is a defensive player and he obviously is a better player than Federer. I get his point about IAS, but the analogy he used is flawed.
@@shivkrishna7706 I don't think you understand. But thats ok. For eg. in tennis, two ways to win a point. either your opponent makes a mistake( when you don't have any control on the outcome) or you hit a winner if the ball is on your court (offense). which is harder? hitting winners because you have to take charge and put the ball away. If you give a simple ball back (easier and defensive), your opponent gets the another chance and you loose control in which case you have to wait for him to make a mistake which will still make you win the same point. Taking charge is always difficult because you have to make critical decisions at the moment you get the chance otherwise you won't have any chance at all. The benefit of offense is players can win more on their terms. but you also make more mistakes.
In real life also, same thing happens. Often times people in power have to make difficult choices or decisions without having much information about certain things. Its like the ball is in their court and they can be neutral or play offense which means make quick decisions given the information they have and often times they will be right but sometimes they may be wrong. What he says is, people who make those tough difficult decisions must be rewarded more but the current system does not allow that which is demoralizing. So thats why the tennis analogy is correct.
Excellent.
Very Important discussion but the Wire (Stalwart of Free media) is not able to arrange proper audio
I known an IAS Officer first hand who took bribe of 75 lakhs for petrol pump
I was sitting in High court of telangana. One IAS officer had been summoned by learned judge for disobedience of High court orders. Learned judge asked IAS officer, What do you think of yourself, why are you not obeying High court orders, What's your name, I will write to your superiors, that you are making bundle of HC orders and locking in the desk. This is the condition of IAS.
Rewarding medicrity is not limited to civil services. It is a phenomenon across all sectors in India, including private sectors.
It is much easy to reward based on raw data rather than analyse the raw data and reward based on the outcome of people's action.
Such a brilliant talk!!
That was most interesting. Hope the erudite gentleman’s wise suggestions are put into practice.
About evaluation process...this is unfortunately the sad reality of every Government department...leave alone IAS...the target completion is preferred over effective work or rather some innovative work....thats the reason most of the Government departments despite drawing talented people...end up with a system where the competency is left unused owing to lack of encouraging environment.
Absolutely brilliant
Great interview Dr.Subbarao .
Dear Mr. Thapar, Considering that you have an earnest wish to change the system, as I have heard you mention in your interview with both Mr. Shourie and Mr. Subbarao; please interview Mr.Sanjeev Sabhlok(also former IAS) who in his book " BFN- Let's unleash India" suggests the very solutions(including those mentioned by Mr.Subbarao) that may bring change.
Reform needed in the age old institutions.
Very astute analysis essentially pointing out human beings respond to incentives rather being completely black or white. To make a system function properly, we need to design a system of incentives with appropriate rewards and punishment rather than relying on personal morality of participants.
Same problem with all the PSUs
and other govt organizations. It promotes mediocrity with the flawed system of reward n punishment.
The selection process is flawed. The exam focuses too much on rote learning. The interview is too subjective.
This is true light on the present condition of indian bureaucrats. They must think on e the views of former gov. Thankful to him on given brief and violent statement .
Talent is in abundance, not allowed to perform or their autonomy is snatch by political big wigs.
Corruption is one reason, at times force to corruption instead taking risk of transfer, fake cases or life.
Good insightful video🙂
I was a Pcs officer in Uttar Pradesh government in revenue department i left the job after one year .
From my experience i can say there is bribery and licking the boots of politicians from the top to lower level.
When you see your highest boss taking bribes and not standing up to wrong doings you can't expect lower level officers to be upright and honest.
Most of the time in bureaucracy gets waste in settling personal ego tussle.
Mr Subbarao is highly intelligent person. We need intelligent people to stay here in india.
Are there podcast versions of these interviews?
Gud job sir g
Rare insight putout with simple and realistic examples.
Enlightfull insight's. Dr. Subbarao is an excellent observer. There was some sound issue from Dr.Subbarao Side.
Please fix the sound, the Wire
Speaking truth.. every bit of what you say is truth anyone in the government can vouch for that. 🙏
During Manmohans tenure... U Dr. Subbarao kept RBI and India safe... Thnx , u r a patriot...unlike the bania hindus
Mr.Karan Thapar interview honest, courageous, intelligent and young Kannan Gopinathan who stood his ground against mighty government and resigned.
So in his eyes article 370 was fair. The treatment of dalits and safai karmacharis who came in 1947 but were not given JandK citizenship citing article 370 is good. Article 35 A where a kashmiri female loses citizenship and property rights if she marries a non kashmiri while a boy retains everything is justice!!
So in his eyes article 370 was fair. The treatment of dalits and safai karmacharis who came in 1947 but were not given JandK citizenship citing article 370 is good. Article 35 A where a kashmiri female loses citizenship and property rights if she marries a non kashmiri while a boy retains everything is justice!!
One of the best Interviews!! Like the Hedgehog and foxes example..
Agree that lateral entry should work in the district for 3 years or longer to get the real field experience. But I do not agree that they need to pass a written examination since these people have some experience in other fields their work can be examined for skills regarding general knowledge, communication ability etc.
They will try to raise barriers at every stage. They have no reason to relinquish power. Bureaucrats everywhere.
सांसों का रुख जाना ही मृत्यु नहीं हैं,
वो व्यक्ति भी मरा हुआ है,
जिसने गलत को, गलत कहने की हिम्मत खो दी है....😡☺️i
Audio was atrocious on on the Dr's side...
Fortune favors the brave. It's more about the strength of yur character than the system.
The purpose of education should to make a perfect human being in all faculties of his life and it should be revealed in his day to day life and make him a rational person.
A rational person never do wrong because he always do logical analysis of his acts on the basis of wrong and right.
if some good politicians is there to whack bureaucrats , some good work do get done other wise IAS officers just maintains status quo. For example infrastructure in north east, if left to babus no road would have been built in east India till now.
The main pitfall of IAS cadre is that no proper evaluation of their performance. They think that once they enter the service, their service is guaranteed. In the present system, it is difficult to punish them for their non performance and mistakes committed by them. The IAS hierarchy will never punish them. They get time bound promotion irrespective of their performance. 90 percent of the cadre is not interested in taking proper and prompt decision making in their day to day work and they try to put pressure on lower level cadre to perform. In this process, though they’re highly qualified, literarily they simply don’t learn to do things they are supposed to do.
I agree with ex RBI governor. I would like to add that the ICS during the British period to rule Indians by Indians. Same system got replaced by IAS. These officers in States are pawns in the hands of ministers just like during the British period, when these civil servants would be subservient to the “ minister”.
To my knowledge in UK no concept of civil servant exists.
A policeman can rise to be head of the London police.
Chaitra Navratri ke Shubh Awsar par Aap Sabhi Ko Hardik Shubhkamnayen.---- Aam Jan Adhikar Manch, Buxar, Bihar.
Please do an interview with Ashok Khemka as well in this context
Hon,Guest all you talked is peripheral points,real core question is we honed mind of people for Civil services without moral compass and character building thus incompetent questions arises.
Who is to judge the one who is outstanding and the ones who are corrupt? Is it like the high courts of today.
Meeting the target quantitatively irrespective of quality was the undoing of the Soviet system. Are we doomed to repeat the same fate?
What phrase did Karan used right at the end something like azia Berlin, can someone please tell me
Who needs real talent when the major part of the job involves just managing to channel the govt funds to the kin of politicians and local mafia, through various govt contracts and public schemes - the skills of a middleman....
Corruption indexes tell it all
We need to think more practically regarding his points. IAS has lost its independent dignity and is becoming more of a political loyalty business. Definitely we need to introduce lot of reforms in IAS.
Iearned from D subari what is repo rapo rate or so on as patient man his service to India is admirablie
Sadly yes very true
The rot started soon after the British left
Reservations made it worse
The uneducated ,uncouth politicians attitude towards the
IAS Body was not helpful either
Temptation to be corrupt was always mounting
Frustrated honest officers never got heard
So to float along the stream became the norm
We need people like T N SHESHAN