In micromechanics we were taught that the first quench after heating should be in motor oil as water will steam when you put the piece in and you can get uneven hardening. We did oil, then water was mostly used to clean off the boric acid. Your setup is exactly what we used in watchmaking school, down to the annoying wire baskets.
The quench medium depends on the grade of steel. In this video I used BS1407 Silver Steel, and the data sheet specified quenching in water. Other steel grades like EN19 / 4140 specify oil. I think most of my information on home heat treatment came from watching Clickspring, and I believe he learned much of his work from horology books, so it makes sense that some of what I did is similar to the process taught in watchmaking school.
All these prof. Mechanics have my deepest respect. Learned a lot in my study 40 years ago from a master. I thought wow these man has real knowledge ans I go only study. I fear that we loose the knowledge by computer cnc and lathe etc. Does young people learn to recognize metal by sparks ?
This video is so perfect. Every minute there is something to learn while it has a comfortable pace. Everything is well explained, nothing seems to be left out. Errors are shown and explained, common mistakes are hinted at to be researched by yourself without distracting form the topic at hand. Well done!
I found this a fascinating video to watch. I am not an metal engineer, but I am a good mathematician. My only experience with this type of work is some 40 years ago in high school, where I made a tap wrench. I remember well the time it took me! I found your commentary very helpful in explaining what was happening. You measured with care and got a reasonable result for all the care and effort you applied to the job.
I made a hob a while ago to cut a custom sized wheel for a worm drive for another project. A few things I learned from that project: Hardening burns off the sharp cutting edges, they should be ground after hardening. No need to harden the tap for soft materials. My wheel was made from aluminum, and plain A2 tool steel was hard enough to make several wheels with no signs of wear. If you are taping aluminum or brass, hardening just makes your life more difficult. I milled the relief at the same time I milled the flutes. I used a dividing head to accurately mill a 5 degree relief, but this could be done with small creativity with your collet blocks as well. Also, the tip angle of a tap depends on the type and pitch. 6 threads of lead is about right for a starter tap, a conventional tap will have about 3 threads of lead, and a bottoming tap about 1 thread. Very well done BTW.
So great to see serious work being done on something other than a Hardinge or Bridgeport. So many of the available videos don’t seem to cater to the small machine users.
The Skills You have develooed are certainly beautiful and valuable to the human species..I hope you survive the war..and are able to pass on these skills to another generation..you definitely..ROCKMAN😎
I know im randomly asking but does anyone know a way to log back into an instagram account..? I was dumb forgot my account password. I love any assistance you can give me
@Dean Korbin Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and im in the hacking process now. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
Very nice presentation: the narration was clear and concise, and the video and editing (with the small exception that you mentioned) was very well done.
Very nice video. Great scenery and outstanding deep voice narration. My 2cents: when it comes to tempering, for me, it works a lot better if you slightly polish/clean the part. It makes it way easier to see the temper colors. You dont have clean the whole part, you just want to make sure your part tempers evenly, so a few spots is enough.
Very good work. A few years ago I managed to machine a gear hob to cut the gears for a Webster IC engine using a similar method to yours. Tool had to be made to make another tool to cut the geometry on the silver steel and then a gear hob had to machined out of it . A lot of work but a lot of fun. Funny enough I cut the 1/2" hob on a miniature Sherline lathe.
Toolmaking can be a really compelling hobby, and I've certainly been bitten. One of the first machining videos I watched was Myfordboy making a hob from silver steel, to free-hob a worm gear. I was almost immediately hooked!
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Yes I agree. Right now I am busy cutting MT0 and MT1 taper arbors for the Sherline. I have made a couple of MT1 slitting saw arbors, an MT0 extended dead center and an MT0 extended live center to be able to get the tool in with very small diameter work. I am almost reluctant to take the top slide off now, that the angle is set correctly.
I see others have warned you about the unnecessity of quenching when it comes to tempering and I'm sure you already know the reasons as well. Another thing you might consider is the location of the tempering. As you said, the purpose of tempering is to decrease the brittleness of the material and make it tougher to avoid stress-induced cracking. These cracks always start at sharp and changing geometries like shaft shoulders and thread roots. If you look at broken taps, they usually break at the upper section of the threads where stress concentrates at the roots and torque is high enough (most of the cutting edges are in action by this time). For these reasons, it is better to focus on these parts of the tool (upper threads and shank). Of course tempering by this method is not the most effective but still it can help prevent the mentioned cracking as heat first touches the most vulnerable part of the tool: the outer shell (this is where the cracks start). The tip and the first few threads can be left "rock-hard" as it is unlikey for cracks to start here and having some extra Rockwells here really won't hurt at all. It's over a year by now and you may already know all of these but if not I hope it helps in the future.
Thanks for the tips! Overall I think the tap felt a bit soft when I came to use it, but it's hard to tell exactly why. Most likely I over-tempered it, but it's possible the points got de-carburized because it took me so long to get to decent cherry-red temperature. I know that quenching isn't necessary as part of termpering, but I was taught during school shop classes that it was a useful way to make sure tempering is stopped, and the heat in the part doesn't spread any further. For future projects I'm going to try and rig up a tempering oven, so I can gently bring parts to the right temperature and hold them there for the right soak time.
It can have several reasons of course. Based on your Custom Die video, if you're using it to cut materials with high tensile strength like silver steel, the high cutting forces combined with the vanadium content of the material (which can already be in it in the form of vanadium-carbide that is extremely hard) it is possible that you lose those sharp edges pretty fast. Decarburization shouldn't bother you especially with the use of boric acid protective coating, the high carbon content of silver steel and the relatively short time you do the heat treating in (I guess it didn't take longer than 15 minutes). I'm also sceptic about tempering because you basically grounded off the tempered (discoloured) section of the tool. The most important thing you should really focus on is the right quenching temperature. Being a small part, this tool quickly loses temperature when you draw it from the heat and you should quench it as fast as you can. To be honest I don't see any red color when you quench this part although it's only a few frames. Try maintaining that cherry red color through the tool and be fast afterwards. In the Die making video you did way better. Keep up the good work!
The BS1407 silver steel I used for both the tap and die doesn't contain any vanadium (unlike DIN 1.2210), and is very easy to work with compared to O1. The ground tapered part of the tap seemed to keep it's edge ok, but I saw some definite sign that the thread tips further down were deforming under the cutting forces. This was at the point on the tap where the cutting edge had only been ground on the flute side, and the other two faces were the original faces that had been exposed to heat treat. I think it's most likely that these peaks got too hot during the temper phase, as I really had very little temerature control, and I wasn't at all happy with how I did temper the tap. Thanks for the feedback on the quench. I have learned that the magentism check isn't a completely reliable to check for the austenite transition, and since making the video I now think it was a bad idea to check if the part was magnetic right before quenching, as it allowed the part to cool down. That said, I'm certain the part did harden. Thanks for taking the time to write constructive comments, full of useful information. Much appreciated, and I learn more as a result. Keep watching!
Testing the limits of what a small lathe can do turns out to be great fun to make videos about, so I'm really glad people enjoy watching them too. Thanks!
A quick tip to help with the thread wires. A dab of grease on the threads will help make the wires stick to the part. Just a bit of wisdom shared with me from an old machinist.
Hi. First time video watcher, 3th. year machinist student. You know, that there is a internet full of a measurement charts, that can tell you the exact min. and max. diameters of the bore when making a thread and also there is a universal calculations, that atleast makes sense when you'r making bolt threads in millimeters. It's simple... Let's say, that you wanna make a ISO M8 normal female thread. Max.D for the hole is 7.972mm so lets call it 7.9mm and the Min is 7.76 so lets call it 7.75mm. Picth is 1.25mm. Now you always go for the middle of the toleranse scale, so just go with the 8mm drill and then go with the thread tap. Don't forget the lubrication and go slow. Remember to rewind if your using a lathe. Now how you use this info to do a male thread (bolt) is that you take the diameter of the hole you want and take of (-minus) the pitch and then round it of. now it's good to round it of to little under because the ridges might get sharp and start to break. Also if the male bolt threads are slightly under (like a 2-5 tens of a mm) it's fine. In normal use there should be some slight wiggle. There is also a plenty of charts in... (what ever obsolete system you 'muricans use) in the internet for you.
very cool project. Since learning from Joe Pie....I now single point tap EVERYTHING from the chuck away towards the tailstock, upside down tool...and no CRASH! cheers G>
I wish I could do that too, but the tool post just doesn't have enough room to hold the single point tool upside down. I only get to do r/h threads away from the chuck if I don't need the tail stock.
8x8mm lathe tools are really easy to get hold of from retail tool suppliers, eBay, Amazon, or the big Chinese sites which sell everything like Banggood and Aliexpress. Most of mine are from eBay.
Oh how awarding this is when you make it and works for you :) My choice of metal was not good that is why I have made tools again and again without being able to harden them!!! I just don't know how to choice the right one and specially it is hard when you buy them from a cheap place and you don't know what it is you are buying. But some how I am learning.
I'd strongly recommend watching This Old Tony's tap making video. It's a very different kind of tap, but the principles are the same, and he knows what he's doing way better than I do.
Indeed, a plain tapered end yields a slight negative relief to the cutting edges. An approximate formula for this relief is arctan(pitch×tan(taper)/(pi×diameter)) which in this case gives about 0.24 degrees. The formula is approximate primarily because the diameter varies along the length of the taper. I would be interested to see what you did to produce positive relief.
That negative relief would certainly explain why my first attempt had no chance of cutting a thread at all. I haven't checked your math, but on a quick diagram I can see why that negative relief happens. A quick explanation of the grind I eventually did: I gound a flat relief just behind the cutting edge by carefully setting the angle of the grinding collet, then very gradually advancing toward the wheel, and checking carefully between each pass. It's not pretty, but it does work.
A thread grinder is a hybred machine. It is like an OD grinder with a lead screw and half nut just like a lathe but with a grinding head instead of a tool post. The wheel is dressed with the apropriate angle for the thread being ground. They come in both manually operated ones for small quantities up ones that are for high speed automatic models for mass production.
Nice to see you back with another terrific video, Well done!! Always interesting seeing how you tackle items like this with the Proxxon's as well as the extra tooling needed to accomplish it. Would also be interested in knowing more about the special Machinist Jack as well as your new D-bit Grinder too. Good Luck with your entry into Emma's Competition. regards Colin
I hope I'll always be able to find time to enter. Your competition has become a pillar of this community, and I'd hate to miss it. I'll see what I can do about getting some decent grinding footage.
Great work. That was something of a leap into the unknown with great results. I shall look at my taps and dies with considerably greater respect thanks to your video. Many thanks.
Thank you for your insights i found it informative and satisfying to watch. your voice tone is also good and not monotone witch is a good thing,it keeps the watcher interested and not falling asleep.
2:20 " And the whole chain is connected to the spindle by this belt" - it's actually the PULLEY on the belt that's most useful to make because it's much easier to make a pulley than a gear, you can adjust it in infinite increments by resizing, and recut it for (lower) ratios, all things you can't do easily with a gear.
Making your own taps could become more economical of time if you were making a 3-tap set of the same size ( starting, standard, and bottom taps of plus and minus fits). Could you get some reamers in there too with similar settings? Might make a nice presentation set.
As an alternative to gashing taps with a ball nose cutter, you can use a suitably sized abrasive disk. Which method to use will depend on what equipment you have.
TIP #2 Quench in a heavy solution of brine water. Salt increases the boiling point of water and that prevents steam pockets that can lead to fractures in the work piece.
For a VERY extensive range of taps and dies try Tracy Tools of Honiton Devon UK with a Google search. If you look at both taps and dies under magnification you will find that the lead in areas are ground with "front relief" in single point cutting terms. So when taps and dies are made commercially when being rotated against the grinding wheel they step in and out in sync. with the tap flutes or holes for dies.. For one offs that can be done with care using a Dremel type tool under magnification. Impressive effort and result! Hole in the brass test piece looks very good. Original Lathe nuts were hopefully phosphor bronze. If you decide to make those try Colphos 90 bronze which machines well. Lead screws were probably just En1A mild steel.
Thanks for the tips! I've used Tracy Tools a couple of times looking for for BA taps and dies. They didn't have anything that matches this spec though.
It's a rewarding project. I suggest watching videos from John Creasey and This Old Tony to get different perspectives on how it's done. Both are excellent.
It's a SPZB63/85 DARMET. Very close, well spotted! The quality of the vice is really good for what I need, but I haven't checked the fine tolerences or tried to use it for grinding. I picked it because the German company I bought it through were recommended by a RUclipsr at some point, and I was looking for something smaller than the oversized milling vice I had. The Darmet is still quite big for my milling machine, so I've bought a pair of smaller grinding vices which also have the benefit of having clamping grooves at the side which the Darmet lacks.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe That's what I call a Quick reply! It seems these can be bought from their web shop now. I like the idea with the tightening force acting downwards. Don't know if it is an issue with Darmet, but in case it is, have you seen these improvements to the nut and cross axle? ruclips.net/video/JCmBFuGjtoM/видео.html
@@paullehmor982 Partly luck that I was around, and partly that you had a nice simple question to answer. Thanks for the link to JohnSL's video! I like this stuff, and there's some good ideas in that video. I don't really have the first problem he describes, but I could definitely use that second mod. Too bad I have no 3D printer; I'll have to come up with another way to do that.
Adventures with a Very Small Lathe - LOL Your videos appear to be "rabbit holes" that contain more rabbit holes that lead to still more rabbit holes... on and on it goes! I originally started to watch the "Making a custom die" video - to which you started off saying that to make the die you had to "make a custom tap" OK I'll watch that one first! Next, in the "Making a Custom Tap" you spoke of making a custom Gear that your lathe needed - OK another to watch...; a second time in the Tap video you spoke of needing a custom screw jack, and so it continues! LOL Great content!! I'm still trying to find that DAMN rabbit in the next hole!!
It looks like it may be a model engineers 5/32" (3.97mm)thread (40 tpi, giving a pitch of .635mm), which uses whitworth 55°thread form. A quick search throws up plenty of RH taps, but no LH ones, so definitely worth the DIY. Maybe the nut bound on full insertion on the test piece because of the slight mismatch between 0.6 and 0.635 mm ? Or it may be a random 5/32-42, which would be closer to .6mm pitch of course
You can get "FULL FORM" threading inserts, the insert has a shoulder ground either side of the tip so for instance for a 1/2" BSF thread, turn the o/d to .500" dead, then keep screw cutting until the shoulders "TOP" the thread till it's a few (5 0r 6) thou' undersize - No need for a gauge or wires, It'll fit the tapped hole everytime (in theory)
Congratulations Sir, In fifty-six years of machining and tool making, I have not seen anyone personally make a tap. I have ordered a couple “specials” when they were needed, but had to do it myself. I found your presentation very informative and nicely presented. What is the aisle equivalent of the “silver steel” that you used? O1?
(2:38) - First time I've seen someone blowing down a straw to blow dust and scrap out of the way. Way to go man ! It always made me laugh whenever I saw anyone using *_air-in-a-can_* to do this. I have used the pipe part of a turkey-baster for donkeys' years now. Because of the wider diameter of most of the pipe, you can really blow up a good pressure with just your lungs. Much more effective than using a straw. You should try it. >
Which part do you mean? If you mean the tap, I'm afraid it isn't nearly good enough quality to sell. It only needs to be used once for my purposes, and it doesn't hold a sharp edge well.
@@GpunktHartman I'm not quite sure what you're asking me. Does your friend need a tap just like the one I made here? It's not really a spare part, but a tool I needed for my restoration. What does your friend need this for? Are they also restoring an old Boley lathe?
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe ...no he not restore it, he use it ... but he need the part you made the tap for. I would like to get him in touch with you, if you like to do the part.
@@GpunktHartman I think perhaps you have misunderstood what I did in this video. I haven't made any parts using this tap, or the die which I made in the next video. Both were just used to restore damage to the original parts of the lathe. I think currently making parts for the Boley is too difficult for my skill level and equipment.
For cutting threads towards/away from the chuck the tip I've used is to always cut away from the chuck. Turn the threading tool upside down in the toolholder & run the lathe in reverse when cutting right-hand threads, it removes the risk of screwing up and crashing into the chuck.
I've used this technique too, which I learned from Joe Pieczynski's channel, but my toolpost doesn't have room for the tool upside down. Instead I get the right cutting direction by using a tool on the reverse side of the part. Look for the second thread in my Quick Change Tool Post Upgrade video for an example of the technique. I don't use it in all videos because it doesn't work with the tailstock.
Great job on working through new ideas and plans, i just stumbled upon your channel and i find this video very enjoyable and calming. keep up your great work .
I just bought my first small lathe and I'm really new. Your videos have really been inspiring. I wanted to ask, why didn't you get the angle for the tap before you hardened it? I would have thought you'd want to have all procedures done prior to hardening?
Glad to be a source of inspiration. When it came to grinding the tap I followed the procedure I saw in other videos, but I think the reasoning for doing it that was is something like this. When hardening the steel, the outer skin of the metal exposed to the flame loses some of its carbon, and the surface layer doesn't harden well. To get a clean surface of really hard steel for the sutting edge it's necessary to grind away the decarburized metal. Commercially made taps have the entire geometry ground from pre-hardened steel. I wouldn't be able to do that in my workshop as I don't have the tools and jigs required to grind a thread into a hard steel part, so I machine the basic shape, and the thread from soft metal, then harden it before grinding away the parts of the cutting geometry I can shape with the simple grinding tools available.
@@righteousdemise Haha, yeah. There are always some purely nonsensical steps that absolutely must be done before the machine will play nice. But after that it's just USB/plug and play/drag and drop.
Developing the proper thread profile will eliminate the need for filing on the thread peaks. It is a simple formula covers all 60º inclusive threads. It gives you the maximum diameter of the thread so you can establish the maximum diameter prior to machining the threads.
That's certainly a benefit of using modern 60º threads, as they generally have flat topped profiles. The thread I was cutting in this video has a rounded top profile, like a number of older thread standards, so I was filing to try and match that profile.
Why didn’t you grind the taper and rake in before case hardening the tap? I would have been worried about ruining the temper once your brought it to straw. Also I was surprised you didn’t add any carbon is this just 01 tool steel?
The material is BS1407 Silver Steel, a simple tool steel similar to W1. It is through-hardening, so there is no need for extra carbon or case hardening. Grinding after harden and temper seems to be the order most tap-making videos follow, though I'm not sure exactly what the tradeoffs are. Hardening in a home shop almost always causes some decarburization of the surface of the metal, so grinding the surface layer away to make the sharp edge after hardening is probably desirable.
Adventures with a Very Small Lathe well nice work man. It looks great. I need to get a power feed solution before I can try this but I enjoyed your video. Thanks.
"The result is definitely a threaded hole" :-) Clearly better than a pizza. Very clever and shows what a home machinist can do; the heat treating is very cool (interesting :-) as well as the logical outline of the steps. The 1.5mm milling was dicey.
But can it cross thread? Very nice project, something anyone could need to do at some time. Was there a lot of work to figuring out the relief, or was it done seat of the pants comparing to commercial product?. Thanks and cheers!
Silver steel in diameters less than 15mm/5/8" should be quenched in oil,. It is very difficult to get a even heat on such a small piece with an open flame. I would suggest packing pieces, and a more enclosed tube like space. When hardening D-bits with open flame heating on the tip end directly seems to the best way. And I turn the lights out first, bc it's hard to see the proper colors with the lights on.
Do you have a link to any information including the specific grade of silver steel? All the data sheets I can find for BS1407 Silver Steel say that it should be quenched in water.
Looking around online I guess the hardening process you are referring to is the one for DIN 1.2210 Silver steel, which has a diferent composition from BS1407 Silver Steel, and different hardening process.
@@CandidZulu 115CrV3 is a different grade from BS1407. The British grade has less carbon, no vanadium, and differences to the other alloying metals. See the chart here for a comparison: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_steel
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Chromium increases hardenability, so oil quench is more suitable for 115CrV3. Oil is less likely to cause cracks. I've used a lot of "drill rod" in the past in the USA, and from memory that was also an oil quench steel. I would assume water quench will cause distortion more than oil.
Great job on the vid. Very nice work. I have my mini machine shop in my garage. Love being able to make things that others cannot. Keep the vids coming.
thanks.. indeed educational by skilled professional. I am ready to spend money for precise mini lathe (?) - threading 10mm or less diameter .. and got lost .. any advice or link. Thanks again
![Ice On My Teeth - ATEEZ エイティーズ 에이티즈 [Music Bank] | KBS WORLD TV 241115](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c-n92OgbbwA/mqdefault.jpg)
In micromechanics we were taught that the first quench after heating should be in motor oil as water will steam when you put the piece in and you can get uneven hardening. We did oil, then water was mostly used to clean off the boric acid. Your setup is exactly what we used in watchmaking school, down to the annoying wire baskets.
The quench medium depends on the grade of steel. In this video I used BS1407 Silver Steel, and the data sheet specified quenching in water. Other steel grades like EN19 / 4140 specify oil. I think most of my information on home heat treatment came from watching Clickspring, and I believe he learned much of his work from horology books, so it makes sense that some of what I did is similar to the process taught in watchmaking school.
All these prof. Mechanics have my deepest respect. Learned a lot in my study 40 years ago from a master. I thought wow these man has real knowledge ans I go only study. I fear that we loose the knowledge by computer cnc and lathe etc. Does young people learn to recognize metal by sparks ?
This video is so perfect. Every minute there is something to learn while it has a comfortable pace. Everything is well explained, nothing seems to be left out. Errors are shown and explained, common mistakes are hinted at to be researched by yourself without distracting form the topic at hand.
Well done!
Thanks, good to know it is appreciated. :)
I found this a fascinating video to watch. I am not an metal engineer, but I am a good mathematician. My only experience with this type of work is some 40 years ago in high school, where I made a tap wrench. I remember well the time it took me!
I found your commentary very helpful in explaining what was happening. You measured with care and got a reasonable result for all the care and effort you applied to the job.
I made a hob a while ago to cut a custom sized wheel for a worm drive for another project.
A few things I learned from that project:
Hardening burns off the sharp cutting edges, they should be ground after hardening.
No need to harden the tap for soft materials. My wheel was made from aluminum, and plain A2 tool steel was hard enough to make several wheels with no signs of wear. If you are taping aluminum or brass, hardening just makes your life more difficult.
I milled the relief at the same time I milled the flutes. I used a dividing head to accurately mill a 5 degree relief, but this could be done with small creativity with your collet blocks as well.
Also, the tip angle of a tap depends on the type and pitch. 6 threads of lead is about right for a starter tap, a conventional tap will have about 3 threads of lead, and a bottoming tap about 1 thread.
Very well done BTW.
as someone who has no manual skill, i find your work therapeautic and fascinating. thanks very much.
people never cease to amaze me. Well done!
I really like the concise way you explain why you did each step
So great to see serious work being done on something other than a Hardinge or Bridgeport. So many of the available videos don’t seem to cater to the small machine users.
Thanks! I'll keep making videos with small machines, as long as people keep watching them.
The Skills You have develooed are certainly beautiful and valuable to the human species..I hope you survive the war..and are able to pass on these skills to another generation..you definitely..ROCKMAN😎
The incredible cleverness of some people always amazes me you are one of those people
I know im randomly asking but does anyone know a way to log back into an instagram account..?
I was dumb forgot my account password. I love any assistance you can give me
@Titan Dominik instablaster ;)
@Dean Korbin Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and im in the hacking process now.
I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Dean Korbin It worked and I now got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thanks so much you saved my account :D
@Titan Dominik glad I could help :D
Very nice presentation: the narration was clear and concise, and the video and editing (with the small exception that you mentioned) was very well done.
Very nice video. Great scenery and outstanding deep voice narration.
My 2cents: when it comes to tempering, for me, it works a lot better if you slightly polish/clean the part. It makes it way easier to see the temper colors. You dont have clean the whole part, you just want to make sure your part tempers evenly, so a few spots is enough.
No words to tell you how I’m impressed
Very good work. A few years ago I managed to machine a gear hob to cut the gears for a Webster IC engine using a similar method to yours. Tool had to be made to make another tool to cut the geometry on the silver steel and then a gear hob had to machined out of it . A lot of work but a lot of fun. Funny enough I cut the 1/2" hob on a miniature Sherline lathe.
Toolmaking can be a really compelling hobby, and I've certainly been bitten. One of the first machining videos I watched was Myfordboy making a hob from silver steel, to free-hob a worm gear. I was almost immediately hooked!
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Yes I agree. Right now I am busy cutting MT0 and MT1 taper arbors for the Sherline. I have made a couple of MT1 slitting saw arbors, an MT0 extended dead center and an MT0 extended live center to be able to get the tool in with very small diameter work. I am almost reluctant to take the top slide off now, that the angle is set correctly.
What you failed to do is grind your own tools!!! Never had the luxury of insert tools when I was an apprentice!!!!!Nice channel!!
I find this video very relaxing,you're like the Bob Ross of engineering. Subbed.
This is spot on. I could listen to this man speak for hours.
So i think : a perfek job ! Now the question: did you produce & sell this watchmakerlathe sparepart ? Exactly this part a friend of my need this ...
I see others have warned you about the unnecessity of quenching when it comes to tempering and I'm sure you already know the reasons as well. Another thing you might consider is the location of the tempering. As you said, the purpose of tempering is to decrease the brittleness of the material and make it tougher to avoid stress-induced cracking. These cracks always start at sharp and changing geometries like shaft shoulders and thread roots. If you look at broken taps, they usually break at the upper section of the threads where stress concentrates at the roots and torque is high enough (most of the cutting edges are in action by this time). For these reasons, it is better to focus on these parts of the tool (upper threads and shank). Of course tempering by this method is not the most effective but still it can help prevent the mentioned cracking as heat first touches the most vulnerable part of the tool: the outer shell (this is where the cracks start). The tip and the first few threads can be left "rock-hard" as it is unlikey for cracks to start here and having some extra Rockwells here really won't hurt at all. It's over a year by now and you may already know all of these but if not I hope it helps in the future.
Thanks for the tips! Overall I think the tap felt a bit soft when I came to use it, but it's hard to tell exactly why. Most likely I over-tempered it, but it's possible the points got de-carburized because it took me so long to get to decent cherry-red temperature.
I know that quenching isn't necessary as part of termpering, but I was taught during school shop classes that it was a useful way to make sure tempering is stopped, and the heat in the part doesn't spread any further.
For future projects I'm going to try and rig up a tempering oven, so I can gently bring parts to the right temperature and hold them there for the right soak time.
It can have several reasons of course. Based on your Custom Die video, if you're using it to cut materials with high tensile strength like silver steel, the high cutting forces combined with the vanadium content of the material (which can already be in it in the form of vanadium-carbide that is extremely hard) it is possible that you lose those sharp edges pretty fast. Decarburization shouldn't bother you especially with the use of boric acid protective coating, the high carbon content of silver steel and the relatively short time you do the heat treating in (I guess it didn't take longer than 15 minutes). I'm also sceptic about tempering because you basically grounded off the tempered (discoloured) section of the tool. The most important thing you should really focus on is the right quenching temperature. Being a small part, this tool quickly loses temperature when you draw it from the heat and you should quench it as fast as you can. To be honest I don't see any red color when you quench this part although it's only a few frames. Try maintaining that cherry red color through the tool and be fast afterwards. In the Die making video you did way better. Keep up the good work!
The BS1407 silver steel I used for both the tap and die doesn't contain any vanadium (unlike DIN 1.2210), and is very easy to work with compared to O1. The ground tapered part of the tap seemed to keep it's edge ok, but I saw some definite sign that the thread tips further down were deforming under the cutting forces. This was at the point on the tap where the cutting edge had only been ground on the flute side, and the other two faces were the original faces that had been exposed to heat treat. I think it's most likely that these peaks got too hot during the temper phase, as I really had very little temerature control, and I wasn't at all happy with how I did temper the tap.
Thanks for the feedback on the quench. I have learned that the magentism check isn't a completely reliable to check for the austenite transition, and since making the video I now think it was a bad idea to check if the part was magnetic right before quenching, as it allowed the part to cool down. That said, I'm certain the part did harden.
Thanks for taking the time to write constructive comments, full of useful information. Much appreciated, and I learn more as a result. Keep watching!
Great demonstration on things possible on a small lathe.
Testing the limits of what a small lathe can do turns out to be great fun to make videos about, so I'm really glad people enjoy watching them too. Thanks!
You're a very clever fellow and a quality video producer. I enjoyed the presentation ... and learned something. Thanks.
Those tolerances are better than those I deal with on large jet engines!
It's impressive to be able to hold such tolerance.
A quick tip to help with the thread wires. A dab of grease on the threads will help make the wires stick to the part. Just a bit of wisdom shared with me from an old machinist.
Thanks for the tip!
Or just hold the wires vertically from above and the mic will hold then in place.
Nicely thought out and described. You're a born educator. Thank You
Hi. First time video watcher, 3th. year machinist student. You know, that there is a internet full of a measurement charts, that can tell you the exact min. and max. diameters of the bore when making a thread and also there is a universal calculations, that atleast makes sense when you'r making bolt threads in millimeters. It's simple... Let's say, that you wanna make a ISO M8 normal female thread. Max.D for the hole is 7.972mm so lets call it 7.9mm and the Min is 7.76 so lets call it 7.75mm. Picth is 1.25mm. Now you always go for the middle of the toleranse scale, so just go with the 8mm drill and then go with the thread tap. Don't forget the lubrication and go slow. Remember to rewind if your using a lathe. Now how you use this info to do a male thread (bolt) is that you take the diameter of the hole you want and take of (-minus) the pitch and then round it of. now it's good to round it of to little under because the ridges might get sharp and start to break. Also if the male bolt threads are slightly under (like a 2-5 tens of a mm) it's fine. In normal use there should be some slight wiggle. There is also a plenty of charts in... (what ever obsolete system you 'muricans use) in the internet for you.
very cool project. Since learning from Joe Pie....I now single point tap EVERYTHING from the chuck away towards the tailstock, upside down tool...and no CRASH! cheers G>
I wish I could do that too, but the tool post just doesn't have enough room to hold the single point tool upside down. I only get to do r/h threads away from the chuck if I don't need the tail stock.
When I watch, I like to pretend the lathe is the usual size and you are a giant.
lmao
right that person needs to read his comment 😂
@@bencesarosi7718 😍
Hi,where did you find those 8x8 mm cutting tools?Because these sort of tools dimensions start from 20x20 mm in the market.
8x8mm lathe tools are really easy to get hold of from retail tool suppliers, eBay, Amazon, or the big Chinese sites which sell everything like Banggood and Aliexpress. Most of mine are from eBay.
Oh how awarding this is when you make it and works for you :) My choice of metal was not good that is why I have made tools again and again without being able to harden them!!! I just don't know how to choice the right one and specially it is hard when you buy them from a cheap place and you don't know what it is you are buying. But some how I am learning.
Very nice video. I am saving this so that I will be able to refer back to it when I need to make a special tap of my own.
I'd strongly recommend watching This Old Tony's tap making video. It's a very different kind of tap, but the principles are the same, and he knows what he's doing way better than I do.
Wow! You'r never too old to learn a new trick or two. Cheers for that.
Very nice! I would certainly like to see a video on your "mini" jack! It looks quite useful. Really, the Lego guys must focus more on their work!
Already working on it, thanks for watching!
Indeed, a plain tapered end yields a slight negative relief to the cutting edges. An approximate formula for this relief is arctan(pitch×tan(taper)/(pi×diameter)) which in this case gives about 0.24 degrees. The formula is approximate primarily because the diameter varies along the length of the taper.
I would be interested to see what you did to produce positive relief.
That negative relief would certainly explain why my first attempt had no chance of cutting a thread at all. I haven't checked your math, but on a quick diagram I can see why that negative relief happens.
A quick explanation of the grind I eventually did: I gound a flat relief just behind the cutting edge by carefully setting the angle of the grinding collet, then very gradually advancing toward the wheel, and checking carefully between each pass. It's not pretty, but it does work.
Thank you...your project confirms I am way too impatient and stupid to make anything useful on a lathe.
Though I have no lathe at the moment, I appreciate your detailed process and experience.
I came, I saw, I subscribed. What an great video and the whole channel looks to be brilliant. Thank You
Veni, vidi, subscripta. Ego quoque.
Designing and making taps is more art than science.
Very good video. I enjoy your very descriptive narrations.
Sounds like a Whitworth special.
Seriously!
Not unheard of
A thread grinder is a hybred machine. It is like an OD grinder with a lead screw and half nut just like a lathe but with a grinding head instead of a tool post. The wheel is dressed with the apropriate angle for the thread being ground. They come in both manually operated ones for small quantities up ones that are for high speed automatic models for mass production.
Great video.
Excellent quality videography and narration.
Keep up the great work!
Thanks, I'll do my best.
Awesome! A very enjoyable video 😊. Kinda feels like a nature documentary, like watching a machinist in his natural environment with their knowledge 😁.
Thanks! Clearly I need to channel my inner David Attenborough when making these videos. :)
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe nah, you got him beat 🤣.
Very nice work. That is something I have never tried.
Nice to see you back with another terrific video, Well done!!
Always interesting seeing how you tackle items like this with the Proxxon's as well as the extra tooling needed to accomplish it.
Would also be interested in knowing more about the special Machinist Jack as well as your new D-bit Grinder too.
Good Luck with your entry into Emma's Competition.
regards Colin
Really glad you enjoyed in Colin! Thanks for being such a dedicated viewer. :)
very cool, Alistair. be interesting to see the grinding procedures some day too! thanks for taking the time to enter!
I hope I'll always be able to find time to enter. Your competition has become a pillar of this community, and I'd hate to miss it. I'll see what I can do about getting some decent grinding footage.
Nice work. Good video. Produced a very professional looking item.
Great work. That was something of a leap into the unknown with great results. I shall look at my taps and dies with considerably greater respect thanks to your video. Many thanks.
Thank you for your insights i found it informative and satisfying to watch. your voice tone is also good and not monotone witch is a good thing,it keeps the watcher interested and not falling asleep.
Very nice creation & excellent machinery.
This is a great video to make threads original,guess helicoil,or insert was out of the question for this job.
Yeah, the nuts have very little spare material, so I don't think there would be room for an insert.
2:20 " And the whole chain is connected to the spindle by this belt" - it's actually the PULLEY on the belt that's most useful to make because it's much easier to make a pulley than a gear, you can adjust it in infinite increments by resizing, and recut it for (lower) ratios, all things you can't do easily with a gear.
Not quite infinite increments. It is a toothed belt, so can only be changed in units of one tooth pitch on the belt.
Nice video, I enjoyed it. Thanks. Yes please, make a video about the small jack
On it!
I am so glad to see you still making videos. Been hard to pay attention to youtube as of late. Nicely done with the tool sir. Thanks for the video.
Thanks, good to see you back again! I hope life allows you more time for RUclips again in future.
Making your own taps could become more economical of time if you were making a 3-tap set of the same size ( starting, standard, and bottom taps of plus and minus fits). Could you get some reamers in there too with similar settings? Might make a nice presentation set.
As an alternative to gashing taps with a ball nose cutter, you can use a suitably sized abrasive disk. Which method to use will depend on what equipment you have.
I'm certainly interested in learning to use that method at some point, but at the moment I don't think I have equipment that fits the job.
TIP #2 Quench in a heavy solution of brine water. Salt increases the boiling point of water and that prevents steam pockets that can lead to fractures in the work piece.
Thanks, useful to know!
Well done, Alistair! Certainly looks better than the only tap I've tried making so far 🙂
Thanks Max! Robin Renzetti's trick of polishing it with a cratex stick can work wonders on any tool or part. ;)
You are welcome! Greetings from Holland👍
Mein Sohn wird dieses Video lieben Danke fürs hochladen 👍
For a VERY extensive range of taps and dies try Tracy Tools of Honiton Devon UK with a Google search.
If you look at both taps and dies under magnification you will find that the lead in areas are ground with "front relief" in single point cutting terms. So when taps and dies are made commercially when being rotated against the grinding wheel they step in and out in sync. with the tap flutes or holes for dies.. For one offs that can be done with care using a Dremel type tool under magnification.
Impressive effort and result! Hole in the brass test piece looks very good. Original Lathe nuts were hopefully phosphor bronze. If you decide to make those try Colphos 90 bronze which machines well. Lead screws were probably just En1A mild steel.
Thanks for the tips! I've used Tracy Tools a couple of times looking for for BA taps and dies. They didn't have anything that matches this spec though.
Nice video, thanks for sharing!! I have actually run in to a couple situations where it would be nice to make a custom tap... I may have to try this
It's a rewarding project. I suggest watching videos from John Creasey and This Old Tony to get different perspectives on how it's done. Both are excellent.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Thanks!
Is that a SPZB80/100 DARMET vise in this video? How do you like it? What made you choose this particular model?
It's a SPZB63/85 DARMET. Very close, well spotted! The quality of the vice is really good for what I need, but I haven't checked the fine tolerences or tried to use it for grinding. I picked it because the German company I bought it through were recommended by a RUclipsr at some point, and I was looking for something smaller than the oversized milling vice I had. The Darmet is still quite big for my milling machine, so I've bought a pair of smaller grinding vices which also have the benefit of having clamping grooves at the side which the Darmet lacks.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe That's what I call a Quick reply! It seems these can be bought from their web shop now. I like the idea with the tightening force acting downwards. Don't know if it is an issue with Darmet, but in case it is, have you seen these improvements to the nut and cross axle? ruclips.net/video/JCmBFuGjtoM/видео.html
@@paullehmor982 Partly luck that I was around, and partly that you had a nice simple question to answer.
Thanks for the link to JohnSL's video! I like this stuff, and there's some good ideas in that video. I don't really have the first problem he describes, but I could definitely use that second mod. Too bad I have no 3D printer; I'll have to come up with another way to do that.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Haha, I think ThisOldTony made a video about square holes.
Craig introduced me to your channel through discord server and I've been going through and watching your videos.....really great content nice work
Hello. Thank you for the nice video. I really like your editing and naration. Very enjoyable.
Ive made similar mini jacks, but never one dedicated for small round stuff like yours. If you havent already, a video on that would be really cool
The video is in progress, and mostly done. Should be ready for upload in the next week or so.
Adventures with a Very Small Lathe - LOL Your videos appear to be "rabbit holes" that contain more rabbit holes that lead to still more rabbit holes... on and on it goes!
I originally started to watch the "Making a custom die" video - to which you started off saying that to make the die you had to "make a custom tap" OK I'll watch that one first!
Next, in the "Making a Custom Tap" you spoke of making a custom Gear that your lathe needed - OK another to watch...; a second time in the Tap video you spoke of needing a custom screw jack, and so it continues! LOL Great content!!
I'm still trying to find that DAMN rabbit in the next hole!!
It looks like it may be a model engineers 5/32" (3.97mm)thread (40 tpi, giving a pitch of .635mm), which uses whitworth 55°thread form. A quick search throws up plenty of RH taps, but no LH ones, so definitely worth the DIY. Maybe the nut bound on full insertion on the test piece because of the slight mismatch between 0.6 and 0.635 mm ? Or it may be a random 5/32-42, which would be closer to .6mm pitch of course
Well done , hand held thread chasers will sort the crest / root radius on 55 deg threads . Cheers .
Nice 👍🏻. Can’t wait to see what u do with the unimat as that what I have.
I'll do as much with the Unimat as I can with time I have. Once I move on to having my new workshop I may get a bit distracted though.
What are you showing when you place a title on the video, such as X3 X5 etc? I dont see magnification change, nor speed change. ? great job!
It's speed change. Almost all of the video is sped up, but whenever I'm cutting metal I add an overlay to indicate how much it's sped up at that time.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Thanks. I tried to notice if it was a speed change, but could not perceive it!
You can get "FULL FORM" threading inserts, the insert has a shoulder ground either side of the tip so for instance for a 1/2" BSF thread, turn the o/d to .500" dead, then keep screw cutting until the shoulders "TOP" the thread till it's a few (5 0r 6) thou' undersize - No need for a gauge or wires, It'll fit the tapped hole everytime (in theory)
Very good and thorough. Thank you. Tom
Congratulations Sir,
In fifty-six years of machining and tool making, I have not seen anyone personally make a tap. I have ordered a couple “specials” when they were needed, but had to do it myself. I found your presentation very informative and nicely presented. What is the aisle equivalent of the “silver steel” that you used? O1?
(2:38) - First time I've seen someone blowing down a straw to blow dust and scrap out of the way.
Way to go man !
It always made me laugh whenever I saw anyone using *_air-in-a-can_* to do this.
I have used the pipe part of a turkey-baster for donkeys' years now.
Because of the wider diameter of most of the pipe, you can really blow up a good pressure with just your lungs.
Much more effective than using a straw.
You should try it.
>
So i think : a perfek job ! Now the question: did you produce & sell this watchmakerlathe sparepart ? Exactly this part a friend of my need this ...
Which part do you mean? If you mean the tap, I'm afraid it isn't nearly good enough quality to sell. It only needs to be used once for my purposes, and it doesn't hold a sharp edge well.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe ... so you made your sparepart? Made another ...
@@GpunktHartman I'm not quite sure what you're asking me. Does your friend need a tap just like the one I made here? It's not really a spare part, but a tool I needed for my restoration. What does your friend need this for? Are they also restoring an old Boley lathe?
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe ...no he not restore it, he use it ... but he need the part you made the tap for. I would like to get him in touch with you, if you like to do the part.
@@GpunktHartman I think perhaps you have misunderstood what I did in this video. I haven't made any parts using this tap, or the die which I made in the next video. Both were just used to restore damage to the original parts of the lathe. I think currently making parts for the Boley is too difficult for my skill level and equipment.
For cutting threads towards/away from the chuck the tip I've used is to always cut away from the chuck. Turn the threading tool upside down in the toolholder & run the lathe in reverse when cutting right-hand threads, it removes the risk of screwing up and crashing into the chuck.
I've used this technique too, which I learned from Joe Pieczynski's channel, but my toolpost doesn't have room for the tool upside down. Instead I get the right cutting direction by using a tool on the reverse side of the part. Look for the second thread in my Quick Change Tool Post Upgrade video for an example of the technique.
I don't use it in all videos because it doesn't work with the tailstock.
I tried making a 7/16-20 lh acme stub tap for my cross slide on my mini lathe. Lets just say you actually accomplished what you set out to do haha
What went wrong? I'm genuinely curious.
Nice work! I like your approach, thanks for sharing.
Great job on working through new ideas and plans, i just stumbled upon your channel and i find this video very enjoyable and calming. keep up your great work .
Very nicely done man 👍👍👍
I just bought my first small lathe and I'm really new. Your videos have really been inspiring. I wanted to ask, why didn't you get the angle for the tap before you hardened it? I would have thought you'd want to have all procedures done prior to hardening?
Glad to be a source of inspiration. When it came to grinding the tap I followed the procedure I saw in other videos, but I think the reasoning for doing it that was is something like this. When hardening the steel, the outer skin of the metal exposed to the flame loses some of its carbon, and the surface layer doesn't harden well. To get a clean surface of really hard steel for the sutting edge it's necessary to grind away the decarburized metal. Commercially made taps have the entire geometry ground from pre-hardened steel. I wouldn't be able to do that in my workshop as I don't have the tools and jigs required to grind a thread into a hard steel part, so I machine the basic shape, and the thread from soft metal, then harden it before grinding away the parts of the cutting geometry I can shape with the simple grinding tools available.
I've done a lot of CNC work, but very little manual work. So much of this stuff feels like witchcraft to my roboticized perspective.
Operator 801 vice versa my man. The machine wouldn’t even begin the run. There’d be conflicts everywhere.
@@righteousdemise Haha, yeah. There are always some purely nonsensical steps that absolutely must be done before the machine will play nice. But after that it's just USB/plug and play/drag and drop.
Nice piece of work. Very impressive.
😀 Настоящая заводская вещь! 👍👍👍 Хоть и сделанная дома 👏👏👏
55 degrees is "Whitworth Form" for anyone looking to buy threading inserts online.
Developing the proper thread profile will eliminate the need for filing on the thread peaks. It is a simple formula covers all 60º inclusive threads. It gives you the maximum diameter of the thread so you can establish the maximum diameter prior to machining the threads.
That's certainly a benefit of using modern 60º threads, as they generally have flat topped profiles. The thread I was cutting in this video has a rounded top profile, like a number of older thread standards, so I was filing to try and match that profile.
Why didn’t you grind the taper and rake in before case hardening the tap? I would have been worried about ruining the temper once your brought it to straw. Also I was surprised you didn’t add any carbon is this just 01 tool steel?
The material is BS1407 Silver Steel, a simple tool steel similar to W1. It is through-hardening, so there is no need for extra carbon or case hardening. Grinding after harden and temper seems to be the order most tap-making videos follow, though I'm not sure exactly what the tradeoffs are.
Hardening in a home shop almost always causes some decarburization of the surface of the metal, so grinding the surface layer away to make the sharp edge after hardening is probably desirable.
Adventures with a Very Small Lathe well nice work man. It looks great. I need to get a power feed solution before I can try this but I enjoyed your video. Thanks.
that was so useful thank you
"The result is definitely a threaded hole" :-) Clearly better than a pizza.
Very clever and shows what a home machinist can do; the heat treating is very cool (interesting :-) as well as the logical outline of the steps. The 1.5mm milling was dicey.
I was terrified by the idea of using a 1.5mm endmill that far from the spindle, but it actually turned out way smoother than I expected.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Looks like the key is Max RPMs and minimal DOC. Great confidence inspiring video.
But can it cross thread? Very nice project, something anyone could need to do at some time. Was there a lot of work to figuring out the relief, or was it done seat of the pants comparing to commercial product?. Thanks and cheers!
The relief was almost entirely informed guesswork, and experimentation. No issues with cross-threading so far.
Impressive! I also did not know that when steel comes up to hardening temp it becomes non-magnetic!
The tap came out great!!!
Thanks! I made quite a bit of use of the camera gear you donated to last years prize while making this video, so thanks for that too! :)
What a beautiful build. I hope you never break it, I would be scared to use it.
Silver steel in diameters less than 15mm/5/8" should be quenched in oil,. It is very difficult to get a even heat on such a small piece with an open flame. I would suggest packing pieces, and a more enclosed tube like space. When hardening D-bits with open flame heating on the tip end directly seems to the best way. And I turn the lights out first, bc it's hard to see the proper colors with the lights on.
Do you have a link to any information including the specific grade of silver steel? All the data sheets I can find for BS1407 Silver Steel say that it should be quenched in water.
Looking around online I guess the hardening process you are referring to is the one for DIN 1.2210 Silver steel, which has a diferent composition from BS1407 Silver Steel, and different hardening process.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe No, but I use 115CrV3, and read the instructions from one maker.
@@CandidZulu 115CrV3 is a different grade from BS1407. The British grade has less carbon, no vanadium, and differences to the other alloying metals. See the chart here for a comparison:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_steel
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Chromium increases hardenability, so oil quench is more suitable for 115CrV3. Oil is less likely to cause cracks. I've used a lot of "drill rod" in the past in the USA, and from memory that was also an oil quench steel. I would assume water quench will cause distortion more than oil.
Great job on the vid. Very nice work. I have my mini machine shop in my garage. Love being able to make things that others cannot. Keep the vids coming.
You ground the taper on the tip AFTER you hardened it. Should not it be done the other way round, am I missing something?
Wow, what a great adventure!!! Very nice video!
Glad to see that you put my friend to work!
Very useful they turned out to be, though they need a bit of training as a focus puller. ;)
Congrats you've made cutting threads sound like you have to be a genius to do so lol.
Very nice video. Good luck with the competition.
Thanks Rustinox! I really appreciated your recent video about file safety on the lathe. Essential watching for every machinist.
thanks.. indeed educational by skilled professional. I am ready to spend money for precise mini lathe (?) - threading 10mm or less diameter .. and got lost .. any advice or link. Thanks again