Why You're Wrong About Rob Liefeld
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Why You're Wrong About Rob Liefeld (The Kurt Cobain of Comics)
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Spend any time at all on the internet as a comic book fan and you are bound to encounter somebody bashing Rob Liefeld. In this video essay, Josh from Panels to Pixels breaks down some of the myths around Liefeld's storied career in comics, why he was such an influential artist in the 90s, and why we should stop making jokes about feet, pouches, and that infamous Captain America drawing.
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Special Thanks:
Matt Draper (script support): / @mattdraper
GodzillaMendoza (as Rob Liefeld): / godzillamendoza 
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Thank you for this. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Hope to meet you someday.
Cool
This was so cool. I have a small Rob Liefeld collection and the more I re-read them the better they get!
You are a fucking imposter! The dumbfuck didn't even check your channel before pinning the comment!!!
If i knew it was ok to tag people anytime i would have sent him a link, but i do not tag for that reason. i can only guess others have told him already be chance. can only guess they do not like being tagged cause people may send them stuff for no good reason so prefer not to be at anytime. so can only guess he knows of this videos by chance any.
Huge inspiration on my own art, you're legend Rob.
6:02
The fact that he completely owns the meme of his obsession with pouches and actually willingly autographs pouches fans bring to him is so admirable.
I met him at comic con briefly, and as a huge comic book fan as a kid, my hope was to meet Jim Lee, but the line to meet him was incredibly long. Rob Liefeld was doing commissions, and there really wasn’t any line in front of him. Comics led to me doing illustration work, as well graphic design. Despite how I felt about his art, I still grew up on his comics, and that era inspired me to pursue art. Liefeld was incredibly kind, and while talking to him, he saw someone dressed as Mr T. He said take this, and handed me his camera so he could take a picture with the person wearing the costume. He told him that Mr T was just childhood hero, and it made his day. That’s when it hit me, Rob Liefeld’s a big kid that actually accomplished, and then lived his dreams. He wears his emotions on his sleeves in the most honest way that anyone could. There’s something to that, and as we get older, we become more jaded and we lose that part of ourselves. Regardless of how he draws, or how many rules he breaks visually, there’s a contagious aspect to his personality, largely due to his enthusiasm for everything he does, and the industry he’s in.
He blatantly stole others ideas and lied about it tho ..
Wade Wilson and Slade Wilson lmfao
Dude still denies he stole the idea
@@andrew-rn9ui Child, riffing like that is an essential part of comics all the way back to the first ink ever published. Deadpool is a spoof of Deathstroke, a parody (and one that actually works better). That's not theft, that's genius. Pay better attention and learn the game.
Amen, but as a fellow artist myself, I love the way he breaks some visual rules, because it JUST LOOKS AWESOME AND IT'S CARTOONING. I love the way he draws; I love his style, and it's the entire reason we all loved his comics. It's a cartooning style and it works great.
@@andrew-rn9ui I was gonna comment was @andrew-rn9ui said but he already said it.
Fully agree. he was one of the very nicest of any creators I've met in my life, with only George Perez being of the same kind of kindness.
I love the line that he was a kid who knew what other kids wanted to see. He was probably the single biggest contributor to the early 90s comics craze for this reason.
Anyone else saw the thumbnail and thought: "Did Rob Liefield die?"
Yes! 😭
Legit the only reason I clicked
If only..
Jeremiah dude why would you wish death on someone who’s done nothing wrong.. he had two kids
@@Calypso694 me too hail death
I would say Leifield represents the hair metal of comic books. Not that there's anything wrong with hair metal, just that his style is more in line with the bombastic feel of the aforementioned genre.
You nailed it. I was in my twenties during the eighties - it was my decade. I played guitar in small time bar bands, had the metal hair, the works. As both a comic book guy, and an eighties metal head, I can tell you 100 % that Liefeld's art was based on vibe of metal - Motley Crue and Guns N' Roses. Liefled was the Axel Rose of comics, not Kurt Cobain. He had the clunky, untutored side of punk rock, but his images were totally metal.
When a random RUclips comment creates a better concept than the actual premise of a RUclips essay.
@Sirenz80
I don't know man. Seeing the current crop of shit comics have been putting out lately makes me long for the 90's. Sure it was over the top, and paid no mind to human anatomy, but it was colorful, bad ass, and the inkers managed to cram alot of detail into every single panel.
Have you seen squirrel girl, thats the kind of quality you would expect in a rough sketch of a cartoon from the Sunday fumy pages.
Wrong. Why are so many people so wrong about Leifeld proximity to hair metal? His art and pure 90s teen energy was part of what killed hair metal... Rob was 90s. Hair metal was 80s. Rob was part of what made the 90s NOT the 80s.
@@challiray Dude look at Youngblood and tell me that shit doesn't look like a Motley Crew video.
Rob Liefeld is pure passion for comic and superheroes, realism is boring.
i'm not a huge fan of Liefeld, but i completely agree that "realism" does not equal good, all 2D art is an optical illusion and it should be used in what ever way best suits the work.
TheSwampus
Exactly, just look a Grappler Baki’s art style
@@epitaphboi4816 Grappler Baki has exaggerated proportions. Rob straight up ignores basic Conventions like forshortening, perspective etc. Not saying you're wrong, but GB's Mangaka knows anatomy.
@@starmorpheus
Indeed. Itagaki's work bears no semblance at all with Liefeld's. If anything, it's actually way closer, both in style and feel, to Bart Sears' artwork.
@@starmorpheus In short, you have to master the rules in order to break the rules.
Realism doesn't equal good. But there are plenty "cartoony" artists that are far better than he was and is.
Joe Madureira
Darwyn Cooke
Chris Bachalo
Mike Allred
Mike Mignola
Tim Sale
Art Adams
Mike Wieringo
Moebius
Robert Valley
Paul Pope
Rafael Grampa
James Harren
Thomas Perkins
Those are just off the top of my head. Rob is a bad artist.
I'm not a fan of his art work but the fact that he became a comic book artist at 16 has made him one of my role models.
This is generally how I've felt about Jack Kirby and Eiichiro Oda. Their art work holds almost no aesthetic appeal to me. But I recognize the technical competence and admire the incredibly prolific imaginations.
As for Liefeld, I don't really think this dismisses any of the criticism about his work. I think it just puts the man in his proper context with the changing times of the comic book industry.
You should pick a better role. Accomplishing something with no work and no struggle is not something to aspire to. Someone making it without trying is one and a trillion. Pick a roll model who you can emulate. He is the opposite of a roll model.
he worked his ass off lmao. theres this other video on rob liefield that heavil goes into his backstory@@archmage7813
@@archmage7813 he literally flipped the comic book industry on its head say what you want but he ia a good role model taje his hood qualities
@@Naldinho456 did you read your comment before posting? It's illegible.
I'm a Liefeld "hater" but this was a wonderful video and even though it didn't make me love him it has softened me on some of his art.
Thanks, that's awesome. Everybody has likes and dislikes so it's all good.
His early work were better than what he's doing now..in my opinion
@@LLoydL That's more than fair.
I have most of his work at Marvel, but never got into his Image stuff. Not entirely sure why; the only other Image founder that never really carried over for me was Valentino.
I've always enjoyed interviews with Rob and never really had problems with his art(never made the Kirby connection, but should have probably).
@Andrew Ryan 💯 this
This was awesome. The perfect summation of why I love Rob's work. I can confirm his enthusiasm when he broke into the industry has only heightened since. When I worked on his book, Glory, he pushed artist Sophie Campbell and I to always try new things, to add our own stamp to it, with the end goal of doing something which hadn't been done before. I love the guy and am extremely happy to see his work given the spotlight it deserves.
It's weird to see how Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld went in completely different directions despite starting in the same generation of comic book creators. Lee's art is beautiful, masterfully performed and amazingly static and lifeless. Liefeld's is rough, over-the-top, very hard to take seriously, but chock-full of energy.
I had only ever heard of him whenever Deadpool was brought up and people were quick to whip out their phone and pull up the Captain America and the feet images. Seeing his work so dynamically placed on the page helps me to appreciate how much enthusiasm he has for storytelling. It's quite infectious.
Honestly, speaking as someone too young to have experienced Liefeld at his height, all that I've ever heard about him are the criticisms. It was refreshing to hear an opinion that wasn't just "lol stupid this isn't how anatomy works" and instead looks critically at the timing and culture of his work to explain why it has the impact it did. You've given me a newfound respect for the guy and I really appreciate that
JARMC I was 16 when image started. The whole time was a blast
I don't know much about him or comic books, but I don't get the hate. His artwork looks good to me. Most comics I see today look really bad. I wonder what people have in mind as "good".
I did at one time read Spawn and loved Greg Capullo's work in the 90's. I really loved that gritty and tattered style with carefully detail. I wish more drew like him
Wyatt Bosch I always felt like Greg Capaullo just took over for Todd and just stole much of his style from MacFarlane. It wasn’t bad but I liked Todd’s stuff better
JARMC As a kid at the time his stuff was the shit! No idea why the hate for his work.
Rob was a god in the early to mid 90s, i collected YOUNGBLOOS AND prophet ( image comics), but Stephen platt drew the cover variants better imo, i have a varified autograph steven patt moonlight in mint condition.
Liefeld is more like the Vanilla Ice of Comics. Early success led to their rise, then over exposure and limited talent led to fans and the industry turning on them. But now both of them have gotten through that period of being ridiculed, turned into a punchline and ostracized from the industry.
Also, both are now comfortable with their own legacy and the contribution they've made to their respective forms of entertainment. You can love them or hate them, but you can't deny they both made an indelible mark in their field. Oh,.. and coincidentally Vanilla Ice's name is Rob too...."word to your mother".
He even looks vaguely like vanilla ice to me
@@timgonzales2891 .. And the similarities don't stop there. In '90 Vanilla Ice released his album which was called what? ..To The Extreme. In 1992 Liefeld quit Marvel to help form Image Comics and created his house studio which was called what?.. Extreme Studios. But the question is can Liefeld rock a mic like a vandal, light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle?
And there’s more. Liefeld created the character Badrock.
Vanilla Ice created bad rap. See,.. it just goes on and on.
Yep, Liefeld comic..New Mutants (teenage mutant superheroes)
Vanilla Ice song... Ninja Rap (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)
Those two guys ought to get together and stop, collaborate, and listen and they'll see how much they have in common.
This is the best comparison, yes! :)
Though it isn't published as a part of the story, I have the famous Captain America picture published on cable #34 from 1996 on the fourth page from the back. It's next to an interview with liefeld about his work on the cap series.
It was also used in Wizard and advertising material. It was definitely out there
As an 8 year old kid I wasn’t an art critic. I saw what I liked and I love it. Rob, Todd and Jim made my childhood awesome! And for that I will be forever grateful!!!
This isn't something I'd say lightly, but this is one of the best comic book-focused videos I've ever had the pleasure of watching. Great work Josh, extremely proud of you!
Agh, Owen! You're going to make me cry. Thanks so much!
love him or hate him, you can't deny he was immensely influential
For better or for worse
@Shin Shaman "People like you"
Please try not to see the world as opponents and enemies, as groups of stereotypes and the façade of binary choice we all seem to be living in now. I can assure you I've never cried over Rob Liefeld's success or impact on comics, it's just a joke. I'd appreciate it if you could be a bit more charitable in your assumptions of people you disagree with. While I can appreciate schadenfreude and laughing at others' anger as much as anyone, I'd warn that overeagerness to "other" people all the time can be harmful. Sorry to go all Baudrillard for a bit, but it's late and I tend to ramble when I'm tired.
I remember getting really annoyed with people sharing the Stan Lee / Rob Liefeld video, everyone had just the worst takes. They kept projecting onto the video stuff that wasn't even there, that Liefeld was disrespecting Stan Lee, that there was animosity, etc. But what I always saw was this industry legend hanging out with this starstruck kid and them having some light banter and having fun. Lee gave Liefeld a hard time over his exaggerated style, but overall it seems like they had a fairly chill vibe.
It must have taken a lot of work to make such a far leap. Liefeld is far from Cobain, he's more Kiss. He's not the punk rock response to hair metal, he's the hair metal response to punk rock. He's the Michael Bay of comics. It's flash and sizzle and that in itself has a niche and has fans of it and that's why he's still around after so long. He came along at the right time to carve himself out a spot. Personally I'm not into his style, he's a little too fast and lose stylistically. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, that's part of the fun, but I have my limits.
💯
This, exactly.
💯💯💯💯
Don't insult Kiss like that. He is like the BUSH (band).
He's around now because some editors were fans of comics in the 1990s like the previous crop were fans in the 1980s.
This was nice, it’s interesting to hear a take that isn’t just the same old regurgitated arguments. I’ve gotten tired of negative art criticism, I’d rather just hear what people like about things.
I wish you spoke for the internet as a whole, Fidelio. Love that attitude!
Right? Everyone loves to dump on Liefeld but I've always thought he must have done something right to become one of the highest selling artists.
Seriously! It's so prevalent in the comics community, too. Don't like (insert artist/writer here), then don't buy their books. Couldn't agree more, Fidelio.
The main issue here is that the average is dumb, Kim Kardashian and Rob Liefeld are in a very similar category, people whose only redeeming quality is their luck at connecting with the zeitgeist of their times, no skill, no talent, objectively speaking. but Alas they clicked with whom they had to and thus became millionaires, even JK Rowling falls into this if you really wanna push it, although that would be a fallacy :)
Except that these are all the same arguments Liefeld-apologists have been using for years online in smaller communities. I don't think Liefeld's art is nearly as bad as some make it out to be, and him being a fan and engaging with his fans is great. But the dude is a terrible (!) writer, is an asshole to people, shits on all companies and celebrities constantly, is aggressive, and has made dumb business decisions. Compare his attitude and his current carreer to his friends Jim Lee (CCO of DC comics!) or even Todd McFarlane (still the president of Image, won a Grammy for a music video, has a successful toy and collectibles company) despite his legal battles and the constant problems with production of the new Spawn movie. Even the less successful guys like Larsen who just turned Savage Dragon into basically-porn. All the other Image founders have been at some point or still are much better artists and writers, and none of them have the infamous aura of being a shithead and a punchline surrounding them.
While I may not be a fan of most of his work or the way he handles himself sometimes on social media, I truly admire and respect his ambitious passionate attitude. Dude knew exactly what he wanted to do with his life and just went out and did it.
13:09 "These pages are about old school and conventional as comics get"
That page is actually pretty well-stocked with typical modern Liefeld tropes, e.g. sleeveless jacket with the collar popped, huge guns, cross-hatching for background, extraneous cranial reflection, gigantic groin area, hand that doesn't line up to the gun handle, etc.
I'm a fan of Rob. Every successful illustrator has a instantly recognizable style, and Liefeld definitely has one. You can look at anything he has done and instantly tell it was his. There are a lot of comic artists, while technically great, that don't stand out in that way.
Didn’t even mention John Buscema by name when he appeared onscreen.
Lol I was kinda waiting for his mention too
Greg L - I’m not a fan of Liefeld. I don’t like his arrogance and I find especially distasteful his unwillingness to give Louise Simonson any credit for co-creating Cable or Fabian Nicieza any credit for co-creating Deadpool.
I know. You're not gonna drop Big John's name? Disrespectful. Shows what this guy knows or rather, doesn't know about good comic art.
As a kid I grew up loving his style. It was so over the top. As an adult I look back and think man that was so over the top. Love it ... flaws and all. His style even when he does bad work it’s still more fun than man other artists. #whoneedsfeet #thighpouchesforthewin
Ken Flux Pierce Fluxwithit , I still rather read (if there was a story) his old books then pick up anything current from marvel.
Thank you for creating this video, I grew up with Rob's art back in the 90s, always admiring his great art. I really love the way he drew X-Force.
"this pages are about old school and conventional as comics gets" looks at 13:09 proceed to show a muscular Hawk with a jacket and a bunch of guns
good point. well spotted.
I respect Liefeld, but I dislike his art style. His art style made me not want to get into New Mutants or X-Force, I think I was spoil by Batman TAS and Superman TAS. It not because his art doesn't look Realism (I'm a fan of One Piece), I don't like the fighting and it very hard to follow.
The "you only hate it because you crave photorealism" rebuttal at critics is so weird because like.... I always favored simple and stylish art styles like that of the Timmverse and the late great Mike Parobeck.
it was lazy, rushed & exaggerated.
New mutants and X-force were ok, it’s when he broke off to image, that art work was just one dimensional one trick pony and all his books were carbon copies of New Mutants and X-force.
I love the 90s look big guns,boobs and masculinity. Rob will always have a place in comic fandom
I’ve always thought of Liefeld as the Michael Bay of comics. Big, loud and full of motion. I’m not a huge fan of his work, but I appreciate his love for the artform.
In the early 90's as a teen collecting comics - life was all about Jim Lee, Todd Mcfarlane, and Rob Liefeld.
I just remember him not finishing a lot of books and my father started to get sick of him back in the day when he read his books.
His entire gimmick was throwing Shit at the wall and seeing what stuck. I never read his non x-books because of it, you knew it was getting canceled eventually.
As someone who grew up reading whatever New Mutant I could find at comic swap meets, I'm glad to hear that I actually had good taste. Really love how this one's put together, and that Jack Kirby comparison is wonderful
Thanks! I've been buying up a lot of that New Mutants stuff whenever I see it. McFarlane inks on Liefeld pencils = some of the best covers ever.
17:46 the reason he did the the side panel representation of Hawk and Dove was because the previous issue of Doom Patrol portrayed the destination that they were in in that context, so he was only keeping the artistic constancy in that situation
I loved Liefeld's art growing up and as a kid who did his best to try to draw super heroes and the like, I could care less if an artist could draw everything correctly as no matter how much I studied or tried, my feet, hands and overall body structure came out looking weird. The man did what almost none of us ever get the chance to do and he did it with no formal training. I don't care what anyone says, Rob is a legend.
You make a compelling argument with many good points. HOWEVER, I'll still take works of artists like Curt Swan, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez (Praise His Name), George Perez, Neal Adams, E.C. Segar, Osamu Tezuka and the master himself Will Eisner over any of Liefeld's art, because their art has amazing use of sequential storytelling (I'll fight any argument claiming Eisner's use of sequential storytelling in his artwork sucks) along with looking better than any of Liefeld's art.
Also for a lot of people like myself, criticism of his art doesn't really have much to do with realism. I'm a fan of 90s comics like Savage Dragon, Spawn as well other works like One Piece that feature less realistic art style, I just don't find Liefeld's art appealing
I agree. I kept getting confused when he kept bringing up realism as a reason people dislike Liefeld's art because that isn't the main argument I've heard from a large amount of people.
That's not really a criticism. Not funding something appealing isn't really criticizing anything.
@@ComicDanOkay, a lot of facial expressions he draws can really look bland a lot of the times, the postures feel very awkward and not as dynamic as the scene wants to display and whenever he tries to draw a fight scene, there are times when those scenes just doesn't feel exciting to me, in fact they come across as pretty boring.
This was one of the best mini-docs I've ever seen about comics. Kudos to you, sir! I stood in the freezing cold outside Midtown Comics back in 1993 to see Rob, and he was gracious enough to stay until every last person got every last book signed. I'll never apologize for enjoying his work. Rob Liefeld for Life!
As an aspiring self taught comic book artist to be I can relate to Liefeld
A great example of Brubaker’s Law: everything is more complicated than you think, even when taking Brubaker’s Law into account.
I always hated how people criticize Rob's style, but praise Jack Kirby and Mike Mignola.
@Tom Nye Creating new characters I'll admit Rob isn't good at. When it comes to drawing I feel it hypocritical that Jack Kirby gets praised. I find some of his art to be kinda bad to look at.
I do believe he went to art school and anatomy class taught by a former teacher of mine. The college art teacher told me this and at a convention Rob confirmed it.
Does that mean Leifeld is lying in the video clip?
@@schmuckytheraiderbear5043 it's far more likely that the random person on the internet is lying or mistaken
@@tigerfestivals5137 exactly. I was trying to see what their response would be.
I'd take his exaggerated but super dynamic art over those stiff traced photographs you see now any day
i grew up on Liefeld. loved his work then, love his work now. got to meet him at a comicon.
The ton of work you put into this video is evident, dude i'd never seen anything from this channel and all of the sudden this pops up in my recommended. I didn't know much about Liefeld, only that he was dead pools creator, but now i feel a new respect and desire to check out some of his work. i'm in love with the 90's image comics style having read and loved 'The Maxx' and this guys work looks right up an avenue i want to explore. you've earned yourself a subscriber here man, great video !
Interesting video. Honestly, I've never had a issue with Liefeld arts, it's certainly not my cup of tea, but that's purely me.
It's his dickishness that puts me off, and not for unprecedented reasons, a lot of his recent actions feel unfortunately familiar to another comic artist who went down a dark path.
Wait, what artist?
Which artist?
@TheBrokenUpEndEx how did I not think of him
Frank Miller or Ethan van Sciver?
Butch Hartman? Lol
This video has sent me on an insane binge of 90s Image stuffs. I just started watching The Maxx animated series and it’s giving me a crazy “How has I never heard of this!” Experience. Thank you so much for opening this world for me.
Never heard of Rob's work before (i didn't grow up with American Comics) but as a perfectionist who's fighting to liberate my creative spirit from technical and judgemental restrains, I feel inspired by his carreer and this video.
Fantastic video. I remember picking up his New Mutants work (including #98 - one of my most prized comics) and while you could pick holes in his anatomy all day, there was a dynamism and energy to his work that just made it infectious. When he says he always saw his role as a creative storyteller rather than a great artist it made everything clear. No-one made Deadpool look as cool as he did. And Cable! The Cable pitch was he's a cross between Arnie in Predator and Arnie in Terminator. For the early 90s it' didn't get better than that. I wasn't a fan of the early Youngblood but it picked up around #6 (was that the one where Shaft had body image issues?) You really contextualised what happened with Image when you position it as a young, self-taught guy in a position no-one has been in before. His ambition and vision outstripped what he could deliver (see also Jodorowsky's Dune). At somepoint it became cool to bash Liefeld for the exact same things people loved about Kirby. Go figure! Thanks for this video.
As someone who read comics all through the '90s and beyond, I really enjoyed this video. Not always a Liefeld fan, but you made your points well.
His early work on Hawk & Dove is still amazing.
IMO as a comic fan in the early 90s, it was a time that sizzled with excitement and each book was trying something new--good, bad, or unnoticeable. You bring up many of the ingrained pop culture reasons that drove the art style of that time. Great video. Thanks!
Rob "Gigantic Boots On Everybody" Liefeld. 90s kids remember
I really liked your perspective here. Early Liefeld really caught my attention back in the day. It was a new, exciting and different. One of my favorite books was the New Mutants and I felt he took it to the next level. The style did eventually start to wear on me though and seeing some of the obvious flaws of some of his work pushed me away. This video has pointed out alot to me from a different angle and I think I may have to reassess my attitude towards his work. Nice job my friend.
His style is supposed to look weird and unreal.
People who say his art “doesn’t look real” are missing the point.
It’s a STYLE, an EXtreme style and his stuff sold millions.
The dude knew how to draw the 90s.
Rob Liefeld once did a dunk tank for charity at Chicago Comic Con in the late 90s. I was second in line. Jeff Matsuda from Image was first. He missed with all of his throws so I got to dump him 3 for 3;) i wish we had camera phones back then. Rob was very gracious and remembered me for it later.
This is really well done. Keep up the good work and maybe even make another one please.
Thanks a bunch!
I like how you brought in Jack Kirby as a comparison to Liefeld in terms of anatomy and dynamic poses and story telling. I often thought both of them could stand to be compared to one another in terms of what they brought to comics, but was scared of the criticism I might get. I mean, today Jack Kirby is considered a legend in comics artwork, story telling, and pure creative talent who's come up with a library of well known characters. Who's to say that Liefeld may someday be known for the same reasons? I admit, I grew up in my teens collecting comics in the late 80's to the mid/late 90's, and will always have a soft spot for artists like Art Adams, Frank Miller, Jim Lee (my favorite), Marc Silvestri, Todd Macfarlane, and yes Rob Liefeld damn it! His artwork can be fun to look at. Thanks for the video.
Comparing Jack "The King" Kirby with Liefeld is one of the most horrible things to do.
I think you nailed it when you were talking about nerds laughing at themselves in fear of this all having been a joke on them - it's a clash of niche culture and mainstream culture. I get the feeling Rob's a 'nerd's artist', and as comics became more "mainstream" (which almost seems like a joke now, given their sales), the mainstream looked at what had come before and started judging it.
Meanwhile there are many great indie comics that are chicken scratch that they likely wouldn't criticise.
Honestly, everyone's style is unique, and there's something about Rob's style that has some kind of uniqueness that I find interesting. It would be fascinating if I ever met Rob or even had him illustrate any story I wrote.
This video fails to address why Liefeld is actually disliked by comic fans and instead confronts the mockery of the internet that uses him as the punching bag for the whole Image fiasco (at least artistically, no one comes close to McFarlane for being Satan on the business side...). It's a total misunderstanding.
Yes, internet articles commonly knock Liefeld for obvious technical deficiencies but only the most narrow minded and least broad appreciation of comics could possibly conceive of taking that approach. It's a criticism that largely makes an impact with non comic fans rather than actual fans.
Liefeld is hated because he is appallingly shallow. His style is obviously a cynical blend of the 80's commercial giants like Perez and Byrne combined with the scratchy grit that had become fashionable in the later part of the decade. His figures are laughable, pouting, pneumatic women and perma-grimace muscle freaks -with big guns and lots of pouches. It appealed to the youngest in the market ...and those kids mostly grew out of it. Once they were old enough they realised how empty Liefeld and a lot of the others' work was. I know I did ...and pretty quickly too. Boom and bust.
It's appeal to the LCD and that's why Liefeld's fans were the youngest and stupidest. One of the few cultural connections you make that is actually accurate is with 80s muscle flicks. These had huge commercial success but were always widely despised and derided. Notice any similarity?
Your other comparisons are generally appeals to 'cool stuff' to make Liefeld look better but are completely unsubstantiated. You even try to construct arguments on the basis of him being Punk without ever actually providing any evidence that he ever was. The British invasion you talk about had far more to do with punk rock and most were 2000AD veterans (try Zenith, Marshal Law, or Tank Girl for punk influenced comics. Hell, try Judge Dredd). The artists of the previous generation like Miller, Romita Jr, Sienkiewicz etc. were the ones that brought punk and post-punk aesthetic into American comics not the Image crew. In Britain Kevin O'Neill or Mike McMahon would be possible examples. If anything the excess of Liefeld was the very antithesis of punk minimalism.
Similarly a few vague comparisons to Kirby are not evidence for a strong influence or admiration. Kirby influenced everyone -but often indirectly and that is especially the case with artists emerging in the late 80s. You also manage to praise him as a great storyteller about 10 seconds breadth away from acknowledging that his layouts are confusing and hard to follow. Are these in any way compatible?
The comparison with Nirvana is the most insulting. Nirvana's mass appeal stemmed from combing a hard rock sound with great depth and feeling. They made the underground mainstream. Liefeld was a crass imitation of superficial elements of the cult comics scene that had gained popularity through DKR and Watchmen with none of their intelligence, depth or wit. It was cynically marketed to cash in, self-consciously 'kewl' and utterly shallow. Liefeld (and Lee...) wasn't a reaction against Miller and Moore -it was exploitation of them. Nirvana popularized the underground and brought credit to it. Liefeld cashed in on the new poularity of the underground and practiced a cheap pastiche of its' most superficial elements bringing great discredit to it. Indeed, it might be argued to an extent that arguably caused an, as yet, permanent and massive decline in the market after a brief boom.
Now it's not fair that Liefeld takes all the flak for the aesthetic of the Image era when other luminaries who were just as guilty tend to get off lightly in mass media but that doesn't mean he isn't awful. He absolutely is.
I've nothing personal against Liefeld. I've heard he's a great guy as everyone says Jim Lee is too. Doesn't change the fact that I despise their style and what it did to the industry.
Your arguments are based on a total lack of understanding of the culture of the time in which this happened. Your cultural references are, as a result, complete distortions and as I said at the beginning your premise is founded on assumptions drawn from internet mockery of an easy target and not the real reasons why Liefeld is hated by many comic book fans. He work was appallingly shallow and his layouts were indeed confusing -resulting in superficial appeal to the LCD and poor storytelling that favoured style over substance.
I have always said that his books read like 80's action movies.
I appreciate your post
I agree. but I do think Liefeld gets a bit too much flack. His runs on New Mutants/X-force is a lot of what made me fall in love with comics. Cable to this day remains one of my favorite characters because he so perfectly represents weird marvel x titles bullshit (I also haven't read a marvel thing in years so maybe cable's been out cabled). Also Image comics spent years being kinda a joke that most of the comic readers I knew wouldn't touch with a pole unless pretty recently. Hell, The Walking Dead started like a decade after they founded and that is the first thing from them that I remember getting any real acclaim (and I ignored that) and the show for it started ten years after that, so I wonder how much of Image doing well now is based or helped on along by that.
@@moirad3504 Thing is with Liefeld and most of the image guys they had great editors to reign them in. I think if he had a good editor over at image and one that did not cower from them I think they would have put out more consistent books at that time.
Completely agree. Rob was a legend in the 90s. Everyone was praising him. Love or hate his art, the guy is extremely passionate about the industry. Nothing but respect from me.
Also I really appreciate this video. Some really nice editing and a great overview of Rob's career.
The Spider-Man x X-force vs the juggernaut comic he did is my earliest memory of American comics. Thought it was the coolest thing I’d ever seen. I don’t think his art always holds up but when it hits it hits hard.
I like that Godzilla Mendoza is doing Rob’s voice. That’s just really funny to me.
Look, i don't like Liefeld's style but i understand his appeal i remember a 13 year old me fascinated with pouches and belts. Does he deserve all the negativity he gets? not really, and like you pointed out he did good things for the industry(maybe).
BUT. most of the points you make in the video are subjective, his impact, goals and effect are all subjective, are his drawings dynamic? subjective. Does he transmit energy and excitement with his drawings? Subjective. Did he change the industry? Subjective, one could argue every single point by either saying he didn't do it alone, and how much is his own personal effort and how much of the peers he surrounded himself with or how it was all accidental and it was actually the talent of the people that came after that managed to save his characters and ideas (for example Deadpool).
Most if not everything Liefeld is critiqued by is pretty much objective, Is the anatomy wrong? Yes. Does he have pacing issues? Yes, details from characters change from page to page and scenes are rarely explained, there's never a wide shot telling you what's going or where. Are his background simple and/or blank? Yes, just lines or colour most of the time, having colour and lines is factually "simple".
To summarize or as simpletons put it (TL;DR), Although it's a nice video and i applaud the effort most of your arguments are flawed and invalid, things you establish are based on fallacies and therefore are false. whereas the criticism is mostly "logically sound" based on actual facts and conventions not opinions, even the Captain America drawing that as you say wasn't meant to be in a comic book is anatomically incorrect, the lights and shadows are wrong and it's overall just poor craftsmanship, again a fact not an opinion, all of this regardless of any context, it's a bad drawing done by an artist who, historically has never shown more talent or skill. If you want to bend the rules you need to master them first, look at Picasso's early portraits he is a master of the drawing and allows himself to disturb the realism with his very late cubist style, Rob Liefeld has made a career of just the last part without an understanding of the basics. Fact, sadly.
Props on the video nevertheless, it was entertaining and your rhetoric is effective, i do feel slightly less prone to judge Liefeld harshly and actually feel bad for the guy.
I find it inspiring, as a comic artist myself, trying to make it in the world. :3
In addition, I see so often where other artists are fussing over whether their art is "good enough" to make comics - I'm all for improving, but if you want to make comics, just go for it. You need to chase your own style, your own signature - not the styles of other artists.
You don't want to drown in an ocean - you want to be the unusual island that sticks out of it, always catching your eye. :3
I thought Rob was Matt Damon at first in the thumbnail lmao
One of the most important goals of illustration is to present the idea in an a way that photography cannot capture. People complaining about the lack of photo realism in art value having an opinion over reflection, and it shows.
His what if issue was very good. That's when I first saw his art
I don’t need to see the video to positively assert that comparing Rob Liefeld to Kurt Cobain is so way of the mark that I wonder if you really know anything about them, specially Cobain. For starters Cobain didn’t play shit music, nor plagiarized, nor punched his band mates and he really really hated becoming a celebrity.
Ambitiousness was not Liefeld’s biggest crime, it was being an asshole.
thanks mate!
Idk, I find it hard to like a lot of kurt Cobain's music because it sounds so off tune and well.. shit. I'd say they're comparable.
Lucifer Fernandez eh as much as I love cobain he really wasn’t a great guitar player
Tiger Festivals I could agree to Cobain not being a great music performer, nevertheless I refer to the attitude: Liefeld was more Axel Asshole Rose like than Kurt leave me alone to depression Cobain.
I know his work isn't anatomically correct, but it just has so much energy and punch. I like how people twist and stretch and the over the top costumes. I wish I could be that fluid.
This was a pretty cool mini-documentary. I really didn't know anything about Mr. Liefeld other than his funny looking drawings but I gotta say, without him, so many comics today wouldn't exist. It's pretty amazing that because of one person, they created so many breakthrough things that other things can be born from that one thing. Cool. As an artist myself, I get picky as hell about anatomy but Liefeld got some balls to be drawing what he drew. It's just so cool that he did his own thing. That's really inspirational.
The main difference batsmen Cobain and Liefeld is Cobain was talented.
If you call mumbling into a microphone and playing guitar horribly talented
I'd say the difference is Cobain is dead.
More like Fred Durst.
Man you really changed my mind on him. Thank you. I won’t blindly hate people just because others tell me to anymore.
"They never could stand the fact that salted peanuts are sold and consumed more than caviar." - Mickey Spillane
Pretty much why I love Rob Liefeld and he is kinda like Hirohiko Araki to me, what makes Rob and Araki stand out to me is how expressive their art is and how good they layout their pages is.
I CAN'T UNSEE JACK KIRBY'S EARS ANY MORE!!!
Fantastic video, Josh! I just loved your focus and whole style here. This was really great. And you're too kind!
Dude, your videos are amazing, I absolutely love them
When I was 12-13 years old I thought his art was awesome and its what got me into comics. I think the reason his comics sold so well was his style of art appealed to many young males, which is most likely the majority that read these super hero comics. Yes there’s definitely older people like myself who still read comics but that’s a smaller percentage. The largest demographic that would read super hero comics are young males in their teens to early 20s. And Robs comic sales numbers clearly shows was tap into what comic readers wanted. Now I don’t think too many young kids are reading American comics anymore because it’s more geared towards an older crowd or some other demographic who the majority don’t really read comics.
There will never be another comic artist like him! Ever! This man is a creative titan! ❤
Rob Liefeld Draws the perfect characters for 13-year-old boys, and that used to be the main demographic for the field. His art is Dynamic and fun.
His art is garbage
While I would never say his style is anywhere near my favorite (that's reserved for the likes of John Romata Jr and Steve Dillon) bc I do think he isn't the best artist I do have a nostalgia for it for the reasons you stated in this video.
It's the same reason I love grunge. Sometimes the attitude and intent is more impactful than the polish. I don't care much for a lot of mainstream comic art now for instance bc it's just so polished. Like everything looks nice, great. It takes a lot of work I know but it's kind of boring to me personally.
It's similar to why I love art styles in Anime like Mob Psycho 100 vs SAO. While MP1 is actually drawn by incredible artists what I love most is how interesting the style is vs the bland pretty style of more mainstream anime.
There's something about the punk rock rough style of Liefeld, Mcfarlane, early Lee, and others that I still get a kick out of going back to read today.
"Sometimes the attitude and intent is more impactful than the polish." This guy gets it.
@@PanelstoPixels Yessir. Great video btw
JRjr is one of the worst artists in the industry. I would take Liefeld over JRjr Anyday.
@Mikhail G Liefeld isn't generic 90s, Liefeld's style was bizarre or unique even then. Jim Lee probably defines the 90s more than anyone else. in terms of superhero comics everyone just tried to draw like Jim Lee. but there truthfully isn't really any such thing as a generic 90s style, since that time was so diverse and varied for art styles.
i found out about a week ago or so that there are an army of people who hate Liefeld's art. I find that surprising, i find nothing wrong with this mans art. i can see how a lot of people could hate a style of drawing, but the level of hate Liefeld gets for his style is shocking; the man clearly knows how to draw- excellently. i'm not saying he's the greatest to ever do it, but he's certainly a truck load of miles above average- even by todays standards.
Rob Liefeld influenced my artwork as a kid and I didn't really know who he was until the late 2000's. The internet's bashing of his work reminded me of my earliest comic book memories. I thought the designs of the character's he made were interesting and wild. That's when I started adding spikes to all my character drawings. Spawn, X-men and young blood's were my favorites back then.
I’ve met Liefeld a few times, a real nice guy (really cares about the fans). The guy is very passionate about what he does. He’s like a big kid that lives and breathes comics.
The guy invented extreme pouches. 😁 His career reminds me of fashion. He was “in” in the ‘90’s when artwork and new characters sold books, but he fell out of style like parachute pants.
Liefeld and Mcfarlane are the 90's when it comes to comics.
I wasn't really a fan of his art but I recognized his impact on New Mutants and I loved the characters he introduced like Cable and Deadpool.
He's more like the Matt Damon of comic books.
David AG but matt is a good actor
he just looks like him
@@Greg12839 Matt Damon is an average actor at best. His only outstanding performance is in The Talented Mr. Ripley which I attribute more to the director than Mr. Damon.
7superdaimajin thank you. Christ’s sakes someone finally said it.
7superdaimajin good will hunting?
Sold millions of books during his flavor of the month years too.
Before watching this video, I had no clue who rob liefield was. But the minute I saw that spiderman picture, I immediately recognized it. That's the mark of a good artist. It turns out that everything I associate with 90s comic art is rob liefield
As an artist, the visual at 8:08 made me jump. The very idea of a phone at one's drafting table seems like a fucking nightmare.
Liefeld`s a better artist than all the tumblr/calarts style "artists".
This comparation is like a comparate a Coke with a Tea
Liefeld is way more Guns N' Roses than Nirvana.
Sweet. GnR is amazing.
I'd say U2
@@kylehyde215CA I am beyond curious as to why you would compare Rob to U2. Please explain.
@@beholdthecakolaAfter thinking about it, I retract my statement and agree with you. I thank Rob for creating Deadpool and I'm sure be has other things that has stood the test of time. Rob's best work is his Appetite for Destruction and Chinese Democracy. His other work is the rest of GnR's work. I think U2 is overrated and overplayed.
I wish RUclips pushed this type of content more often.
Me too! 😩
Liefeld is the Michael Bay of comics
3:52 "...it wasn't so much about the quality of the work itself..." Yes, and therein lies the problem. Look, you can talk about how he started as a teenager and had no formal art training, but that just reinforces the idea that he probably shouldn't have been hired.
Great video, but it didn't do anything to change my mind. And maybe he is the Kurt Cobain of comics. I haven't seen much hype for either in 20 years.
I'm not a fan but millions of comics sold sorta means it was a very good idea he got hired.
@@devote That means very little since around that time most comic books sold very well. Also just because something was popular once doesn't mean it was good even then, it just happened to be popular
@@vanjagalovic3621 that's like saying Nirvana didn't mean much because plenty of other bands were making money. X Force #1 is the second best selling single issue of all time(Nirvana aren't even in the top 25 of best selling albums). I get that you hate him but at least get your head out your ass. Again I'm not a fan of Rob but I respect what all those guys did in the early 90s they brought comics into the new era. It wasn't all great but for the time it was something special.
@@devote Thank you 👏👏
Though I enjoy this video and respect the reassessment, Todd Mcfarlane is a far superior artist in all accounts particularly in being pleasant to look at. As much as I like liefield as an underdog cult figure, his work is just ugly even by those 90s image standards. Mcfarlane, Jim lee, and Marc silvestri could do everything liefield did while achieving something akin to beauty. Liefield's work is clunky, one note, and soulless, he's cashing in on his extreme personality more than his comics which have looked the exact same since x-force.
Liefield's work is also dumb
@Gzus Kreist you're not.
I have more than a few issues with this video and one is that it has to pretend none of the other image founders existed for Liefield to be good. They where all dramatic, inventive and dynamic just one of them was also really bad. Almost every argument is a huge stretch, the only one I tend to sympathize with is the Kirby comparison only Kirby was not only a lot better, he also drew backgrounds instead of leaving all his panels blank.
@@lugaruclone Thank you for putting into words what I was trying to figure out was bothering me. One of the arguments is pretty much exactly "I could compare Liefield to the other artist, but I won't." Directly followed by "he's really good at making dynamic images, unless all these other artists, who make good art, but suck at dynamism."
There are so many arguments in here that either flatout ignore other artists or put them down in a way that feels borderline ad hominem (to either the other artists or Liefield's critics).
Most people who hate Liefield hate him on two particular points: His shitty anatomy and his shitty personality, as stated in this video. And no amount of arguing "but he's a good storyteller." will make those points moot.
There are plenty of artists who are very capable of exaggerating and stylising without flatout ignoring fundamentals. Someone who I like to bring up as a counterpoint to Liefield is Michael Turner. He has a similarly exaggerated, dynamic style to Liefield, but he does it in a way that is consistent both within his work (it 'makes sense' in his world) and with expectations. Liefield does neither of that. And no, "he challenges himself on each page" is really, really no explanation for jumping all over the place with his anatomy.
Don't get me wrong. It's okay to like what Liefield does. Heck, I adore Deadpool and therefore absolutely cannot hate Liefield completely. But trying to talk up his art and go "oh, no, it's actually really good, all of you just DON'T UNDERSTAND!" is really not the way to go.
@@IzzetArtificer but like i dont find him wrong in an opinion stand point. Like argument aside liefelds work may be ugly but it does fucken rock and yeah fundamentals and all that shit is important but as someone who makes this stuff and is annoyed at the overall overemphasis on art over HOW FUCKEN SICK THAG LOOKS i kinda get depressed when i make something pretty but then put if on sequence and realise the sequence has no umph nothing to scream "oh fuck!" About. The video aside maybe try not just dismissing liefeld and take a look at why wpuld he draw in such a way ( maybr laziness).
Really well done video - great job :)
Hi,
I'm a professional storyboard & concept artist for more than 20 years now, and got to tell you that Rob Liefeld is one of the prime influence on me, along with Jim Lee, Marc silvestri, Greg capullo from 90s. Thank you Rob Liefeld for being one of the best storytellers in the past 35 years,