"The most absurd apology for authority and law is that they serve to diminish crime. Aside from the fact that the State is itself the greatest criminal, breaking every written and natural law, stealing in the form of taxes, killing in the form of war and capital punishment, it has come to an absolute standstill in coping with crime. It has failed utterly to destroy or even minimize the horrible scourge of its own creation." ~ Emma Goldman
I mean, laws do serve purpose, but it's not to diminish crime. Authority is kind of necessary to enforce laws. Even in anarchism authority and boundaries exist. However I agree on the rest, and police definitely do not exist to diminish crime, either. They don't serve to prevent it either.
@@Nai-qk4vp"The urge to destroy is also a creative urge". But I see a problem of emphasis on both sides and nowhere near enough balance, like this channel provides. Some are only concerned with their idea of a utopian future, some fetishize revolution, some are married to their preferred means, some eschew means entirely and focus too much on the current situation - almost hopelessly like they're addicted to the misery, some (primarily vanguardists) are more into some imagined transitory period than the future, some are living in the past and only seem interested in endlessly rehashing/justifying it, etc, its important to know the history, understand the present, and have visions of a possible fury, I just don't see it enough - especially online. That's why this is one of the only political channels I still fw other than a couple of others like Zoe Baker, FD Signifier, Anark, lil Bill, and maybe one or two others I check on occasionally. What are we dealing with, how do we overcome it, what do we do then, and how well can we know ourselves to ensure we don't repeat past mistakes or lose important parts of ourselves 🏴
yeah it's awesome. I've been watching this channel for a while but recently fell into the more reactionary in the non political sense side of political youtube lol. Hasan specifically. Obviously way better than many other options but eventually even when you agree with them on the most part you just start to feel that this is almost entirelt just entertainment, not actually really putting anything forward other than a few explanations and responses you haven't heard of thought befoee every now and then. Again, not bad and probably helps spread good ideology but not so much good specific ideas and plans like Andrewism and others do
Yet, he completely ignores how Marxism has infiltrated all of Western culture. Increased immigration, drug abuse, homelessness, and crime are the result. A Marxist-based “soft of crime” approach to Law Enforcement creates an removes all consequences of crime.
“A world where the harm people may perpetuate will be addressed with consideration for the needs of the victim, perpetrator, and community alike.” -YES, I’ve been trying to explain this stance for ages, thank you for this concise wording 🙏
@@jordanthompson8268 Essentially: digging deep into the reasons or conditions that led to a person to commit a crime can help us improve those conditions on a societal level. By changing the catalyst to a crime, we can prevent repeat crimes from that perpetrator - as well as any would-be perpetrators. It also doesn’t really mean “no consequences”, but consequences should be balanced. It’s an approach that is way more concerned w/ improving the lives of everyone rather than punishing for the sake of.. punishment.
@@ZombiBunni_ If the catalyst is that the criminal just wanted to do the crime, what difference does it make? And what's more, if someone rapes and kills a child why would I be concerned about improving his life. In that case and some others, punishment is almost mandatory, be it life in prison or death.
@@jordanthompson8268 Your comment history makes it clear that you’re asking in bad faith & aren’t actually trying to understand or discuss🫡 have fun w/ that
I think the view of an age of abundance is misguided, because while true the actual production of said abundance is centralised in a few wealthy countries in the global north. What this means is that if the abundant produce be it train cars, medicine or food were to be redistributed under the current production regime the global south would be at the mercy of countries in the global north. Which on paper is not inherently wrong but the global north has a track record of screwing the south. For example America and Europe grow enough food to feed roughly 10 billion people but much of that food goes to waste. If that food was redistributed to Africa it would be good at first, until a trump or maloni style figure comes to power and uses said food and medicines as a weapon to get concessions out of African countries. Whereas if African countries were self-sufficient in food, medicine, armaments and industrial/transportation equipment. We can feed ourselves, defend ourselves, build our own green tech and train systems cross crossing the continent. History has shown that relying on the global north and white majority countries to be nice is a quick way to get annihilated. Imo the issue is not the amount of production but where the production takes place. Africa does not need their redistributed wealth, we need to create our own wealth in our own system that fits the needs of the people on the continent. To me Pan-Africanism means the entire black world working together to use the vast resources, ingenuity and skill we have to create a better world for all black peoples and be able to defend our sovereignty, humanity and rights in a dangerous world amidst the new multipolar global order. By the end of the century black people are going to be half of humanity. Half of every person alive will soon be black. We have everything we need to succeed on our own so why should we rely on the ‘kindness’ of strangers when they have demonstrated for 5 centuries that said ‘kindness’ is not free and never will be. If left to our own devices, Afro-Caribbean’s, AA’s and black Hispanics can and will provide on our own.
"Restorative justice" has become a buzz word in education over the past few years in the States. But it's a joke. The system is used to sweep sometimes very serious actions by students under the rug, and even when well-meaning staff members try to implement it, it falls flat without the support of the community. One of the more difficult aspects of developing a justice system is that every person has their own values and their own idea of what is/causes harm and how to address it. As a teacher, I regularly have to speak to students about retaliation because many of their parents will teach them they have to "hit back" and "defend themselves". Then there are kids who are taught that you always solve a problem by running to a teacher, which is often important, especially if there is danger, but in milder situations it stops them from developing their own conflict solving skills. I spend all day teaching students what harm is and when something is or isnt a big deal. But this is something most adults fundamentally disagree on, and they get conflicting messages at home. That is the hardest thing to solve when it comes to developing a justice system in my opinion.
I did restorative justice training one of the most important basis was the readiness of the victim and consent by both to a resoring process. I agree with the buzzword label because now on college it's used to mute victims and doest support neither empowerment of the victim nor accountability of the perpetrator. It makes me so sad and angry.
@@Freddy-rs8og Just out of curiosity, what did you expect? You're telling the victim to swallow their resentment for the sake of their malefactor avoiding punishment and the college avoiding negative publicity. What can "reconciling" a victim to their abuser possibly lead to other than continuing abuse? One uncomfortable fact all these "alternative justice" ideas seem to want to ignore is that one necessary component of justice - perhaps the most important - is to reassure the victims that they're safe, that harming them leads to punishment for the perpetrators. And that means making the guilty suffer in proportion to the suffering they caused. If your system does not do this, then your system is further harming the victims for the sake of perpetrators - or, more likely, your comfort and convenience - and no amount of fantasizing about reconciliation being a substitute for punishment will change that - quite the contrary, a "forgiveness ritual" is simply another humiliation to endure. So no, "restorative justice" is not about "empowering" the victim, it's precisely about silencing them so the whole incident can be declared solved. What empowers the victim is knowing that the perpetrator was adequately punished. Reconciliation may or may not follow after that, but if you skip the punishment part you don't have justice, you have a nice rug to sweep the victims under. And it sounds like the educational system understands the true nature of "restorative justice" perfectly while you either don't or don't want to.
Block and do not engage with this clovermacknime, he is here only to disrupt and lie score points and to whinge. Not have a discussion. Bad faith actor. Do not engage. Just block him and move on
On your point regarding the systemic effect of sexual violence perpetrated against men: couldn't it be argued that while the violence itself might not be a manifestation of patriarchal violence, the reaction the victimized party receives is? Because society already views victimhood and vulnerability as inherently feminine and therefore deserving of scorn and derision and we already see this in action with the way non-men are mocked and gaslit and silenced when they speak out about the abuse they've endured. But even then I'm noticing that somehow when men come forward about being harmed in this way their suffering is treated as even more of a joke, like a failure on their part to "be a man". Would you consider that to be a manifestation of patriarchal violence the same way non-men experience patriarchal violence? I really hope my question makes sense. I learned quite a lot from this video and I appreciate the way you explain things
I do think the entitlement to domination violence comes from patriarchy/property and class indoctrination and the hierarchy supremacy mindset that come wth it. The need to overpower instead of empower, the righteousness that comes with inherent power or projected one and the negative "consequences" when perceived power is not maintained, i.e a man shall not be victimized and when it happens it gets ignored and moked to avoid critical analysis of inequality and instead make it a problem of not being enough rather than the problem that society believes it could be justified that anyone deserves their autonomy being harmed... which would come up in case of victimization, while when class is maintained the control that victimizes is labeled righteousness or authority to control order. Not English native so this may be hard to read but would love ur pov.
Abuse is one of the main mechanisms of patriarchal violence but it is intended to uplift men. They are experiencing patriarchal violence through abuse but they aren’t the ones who are the intended victims of a systemic level. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think they need support.
"Justice is balance between people. Guaranteeing that no one is mistreated and guaranteeing the person who needs the most help gets it." -Neely Fuller Jr.
“I believe that Justice and mercy are simply one and the same thing without justice to the full there can be no mercy and without mercy to the full there can be no justice.”- George MacDonald
Great video! As always, well thought out and laid out. The difference between violence and domination is one that will help me in conversations with pro-status-quo-ers about justice, how we deal with it, and how we could be dealing with it. Thanks!
I agree on pretty much all your points, but some kind of prison system is needed, especially in the worst of cases. An environment of rehabilitation entirely separate from the standard community is needed for both those who are entirely unrepentant for terrible acts, and for those who would be unable to become better in normal society without causing further harm to others. I appreciate how any prison system is the complete antithesis to anarchist theory, but there's a fella out there who did a terrible act of sexual violence to my mother before I was born, and I truly believe he shouldn't renter the regular world until everyone's damn sure it's not gonna happen again.
Prisons don't help in anything with that, you know? He might just start assaultig his fellow inmates in there. That's how worthless prisons are at preventing harm.
@@Nai-qk4vp What's the other option then? In cases where the methods proposed by this video don't really work you only really have three options, exile, imprisonment or death. Exile is just pushing the problem to the next fella down the road, and I'm not a fan of killing people, so I think we have to try and employ a reformed prison system.
You should not call it a prison system because that's not what it is. It's a detainment system for those who are an acute danger to those around them. In the system you imagine, people are kept as humanely as possible for as long as their rehabilitation requires without endangering those who are not involved. Current prisons partially fullfill that role, they keep dangerous people away but don't rehabilitate at all as pointed out in the video. They also multiply violence and create a criminal class which is used as a distraction for normal people.
I highly recommend studying Timothy Murithi's article: "An African Perspective on Peace Education: Ubuntu lessons in reconciliation" for a glimpse at the justice system which prevailed in Southern Africa among Bantu-speaking peoples.
I think the concept of a 'bad person' is the most interesting part of this. How do we determine if someone is irredeemable? And what would it mean to 'remove' them?
I don't use terms like "bad person" or "good person" just to avoid oversimplifying things. As for determining lost causes... I say, try everything you can to fix it. But some people either aren't ready or aren't willing to amend their behavior. If you can determine that this is the case, you have your answer. If you can't convince them to try, keep them away from other would-be victims in a humane capacity until they changr their mind or die of natural causes. (I wouldn't recommend the death penalty because I don't trust state executions to only target guilty parties, nor do I trust group lynching).
@CrescentUmbreon I agree about the bad person/good person thing. It's just too subjective. I think everybody has the capacity to change, but the key part is weather or not they choose to. Everyone should get the choice, but if they keep choosing to continue doing horrible things over and over, they can't be overlooked. The priority should be to prevent any further harm, but as people we need make sure our compassion for other human beings remains. Edit: I also don't agree with the death penalty either.
@@monster-enthusiast Should a murderer or rapist get a second chance? If so, how many rapes/murders do they get away with before run out their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chances?
@@jordanthompson8268 That didn't seem like a genuine question, but I'm gonna answer it anyway. Firstly, justice isn't one size fits all. Also, murder and rape aren't equal offenses. If you kill a rapist, do you really think the killer is just as bad as the rapist? Also, I don't agree with capital punishment, but if the victim or victim's family member decides to give the offender their comeuppance and said offender happens to die, that's just natural selection. You fuck around and you find out. Secondly, the whole second chances thing is (1) for people who actually know they did wrong and want to do better, and what rapist/murder do you know that genuinely regrets what they did? Not many I'm guessing. And (2) because a lot of people will criminalize and condemn a person that easily could turn their lives around if they actually had help. (Obviously talking about minor offenses/issues.) You can't always tell upon first glance the difference between someone that's struggling and someone that's just an entitled ass. Also, a better society that focuses on reform, compassion, rehabilitation, and community instead of punishment and prison will encourage kindness and diswade people from committing heinous acts like rape. Hate breeds hate and kindness breeds kindness. If you raise people with good values and teach them to respect people's consent and value life, chances are they're gonna be better people than the misogynistic capitalistic dirt bags that current society keeps pushing out. Also, the whole "but what about the rapists and murderers" question is usually a dogwhistle for people who just want to say capitalism, prisons, and capital punishment are completely justified and should continue to exist.
i really like what you do, both in the sense of what your mission is, as well as what your means are. i find it paramount to define the words one uses; especially when the words are as loaded as 'justice' or 'violence', yet i feel like the definition of violence you provided is insufficient as far as it explicitly only concerns the use physical power, while i see and feel the use of psychological power used for a great deal of violence (especially, but not only, from states). as a trans person, for example, i regularly see people trying to make my existence 'worthy of capital punishment' or just impossible. and i feel that that idea, and the rhetoric around it not only implies, but also by itself is, a great deal of violence
Fair enough. How is this for an expanded definition? Violence is the use of physical force, coercion, or manipulation with the intent to injure, abuse, damage, destroy, exert control, and/or subjugate others. Violence may be immediate, involving physical injury and destruction of property, and violence may be gradual, eroding well-being, autonomy, and dignity over time. It may include overt acts of aggression, emotional abuse, structural discrimination, economic exploitation, ecological degradation, and any behaviour or system that perpetuates domination and undermines the agency and overall quality of life of individuals or communities.
Andrew, please keep putting out these videos. You are raising consciousness. Ignore those that dismiss them as utopian thinking. Metaphorically speaking, Utopia is always the best destination - no matter how far we may need to travel.
For a just world, we absolutely need to move away from a system that prioritizes rewards and punishments as a set of incentives. And to replace that with caring for each other. Justice looks so different if we're invested in each others' long term futures
Same. I am the survivor of ongoing torture. I hold myself accountable. I can say you don’t want to be tortured by a stranger, possibly to elevate a weak ego, grabbing onto you and torturing you. It happens with todays weapons and you don’t want an offender destroying your health and life. Thanks for your video. ❤️
In his book "Island", Aldous Huxley somehow addresses the "bad people" issue. Not in the sense of what to do with people who already went bad but in regards of admiting there are certain kinds of personalities which are naturally prone to an agressive behaviour. What the utopian society the book describes proposes is using this energy for constructive purposes. That in a formative stage (education of the individuals), not by repressing but by validating and offering positive contexts where to release this energy as to avoid people going bad in a later stage. I liked that idea and those in the book as a whole. Great video, as all of Andrew's. Thanks, dude.
I have gone to the point where I'm watching almost every single one of your videos when I can. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I am learning so much.
Here after reading that the hero Aaron Bushnell used to watch your videos. He lived and died for justice and I hope Palestine gets justice soon, whether that be in our lifetime or not. I am glad he led me to find your channel, whenever I watch you I will think of him.
Another great question is: how do/did societies with no prisons deal with crime? There are horror stories about many of those, but also examples of deep wisdom we all can learn from. Did you know in some African tribes not only a thief of say a cow would be called to court, but also his village. They would be asked: what did you do as village that this man needed to steal a cow? Or one where a whole village will surround a murderer with love until they break down in tears and start healing. So why does our justice system look so much like ritualised revenge, which doesn't solve any issue, not even help prevent criminals to strike again?
The needs of the classes in power to maintain that power have come to dominate the practices of justice and to skew heavily the conceptions of it. Keeping people afraid out of jail and keeping them compliant and useful inside of it does that well; addressing systemic causes is out of the question entirely. There's some historic tendency to consider justice as revenge but made impersonal and proportionate. That's a sense that can usefully be played up to maintain a hierarchy so that's what we get under one.
@@KootFloris You wrote "They surround the murderer with love until they start crying and healing", as if it isnt them that need to heal, and that if it isnt the murderer who refused to love their victim. Or even, more interestingly, what if As i said, the "spiritual healing" the murderer needed WAS the murder...
I really appreciated you getting in to the details on the characteristics and behaviors of people for whom this new type of justice will be most effective and what are signs it may not. I've been mulling on that for a while as I try to incorporate it into my personal life. Very useful!
I'm suspicious of the word justice because too often it means revenge. Even reworkings of the term like "restorative justice" or "social justice" keep the stink of harm about them - they're terms of practical compromise that ultimately often include taking something away. I think all we can and should expect from "justice" is that we try to be fair to each other and protect each other. We need a different word for that. Let vengeance be its own concept, even if it's depersonalized via society and a court system.
It's not revenge, it's retribution. Revenge is Donald Trump trying to arrest everyone who criticizes him. Retribution is an SA survivor finally having their voices heard and their abuser losing their job/reputation/wealth/power.
Justice IS revenge. Its the entire point. The moment collectively honest about it, we can work towards something worthwhile from that point on, because vegances is all about equalizing the wellbeing of the whole group. Its written in our biology for this, and I think we do ourself a disservice ignoring that.
Your videos have done more than any other resource to help educate me and reinforce my appreciation of these ideals. The literature and counter arguments (and counter-counter arguments, etc.) can often feel overwhelming, and I'm not always sure if I'm jumping into the right readings or what context I may be missing. The way you organize and present material is so logical and thorough yet clear! And it gives me the vocabulary and perspective to do deeper dives for further education afterwards, which is a rare gift all on its own. Thank you so much for all you do.
One video and I'm still panicking but not getting worse. Another and I'm realising that I'm actually finding a foothold on my anxiety and my goals. Three videos and you've helped me to achieve (just today's "small steps") what I feared would take many more hours or days. Not just cos you have such a soothing prosody and voice, but cos you always share with us how to keep the ability to hope and to keep on fighting. Endless thanks, as ever. And, as ever... Peace.
Excellent analysis! I will say though that I do see where women’s abuse of men can have ties to patriarchy in the narratives we tell about male victims/survivors. The silencing of male survivors stems from a slew of patriarchal expectations on what men do and do not do as well as what women are perceived to be capable of. I work with SA survivors for a living and can see the ways patriarchy backfires on men because it was never put into place to make them happy in reality. It follows a script that they can follow it with much more large scale success than say a woman wielding internalized misogyny against another woman but the thing is patriarchy never accounts for men to deal with trauma of any kind. This isn’t to say I think you are wrong, just my insights from this video. Keep up the dope work, my dude!!
There are many small-scale initiatives that individuals and communities can take to promote mutual respect and personal responsibility. Here are a few examples: Community gardens: Community gardens bring together people from diverse backgrounds and promote cooperation and shared responsibility for a common goal. Neighborhood watch programs: Neighborhood watch programs encourage individuals to look out for one another and take responsibility for the safety of their community. Recycling and waste reduction initiatives: Recycling and waste reduction initiatives promote environmental responsibility and can bring communities together around a shared commitment to sustainability. Restorative justice programs: Restorative justice programs emphasize mutual respect and personal responsibility in addressing conflict and harm within communities. Mentorship programs: Mentorship programs provide opportunities for individuals to learn from and support one another, promoting a culture of mutual respect and personal responsibility. Volunteering and community service: Volunteering and community service provide opportunities for individuals to give back to their community and take responsibility for the well-being of others. Civic engagement: Civic engagement, such as participating in local government, voting, and advocating for issues that affect one's community, encourages individuals to take an active role in shaping their society and taking responsibility for its outcomes. Here are some practical steps that can be taken to promote and implement small-scale initiatives in America: Identify the issue: Identify a local problem that needs to be addressed, such as a lack of access to healthy food options or a need for community cleanup efforts. Connect with others: Reach out to others in your community who are also interested in addressing the issue. This can be done through social media or local community groups. Plan and organize: Work with your group to create a plan of action, including specific goals and tasks that need to be accomplished. Gather resources: Identify the resources you'll need to accomplish your goals, such as volunteers, funding, and supplies. Take action: Put your plan into action, starting with small steps that can build momentum over time. Evaluate and adjust: Regularly evaluate your progress and adjust your approach as needed to ensure that you're making a meaningful impact. Document and share: Document your efforts and share them with others through social media, local news outlets, or community events. This can help to inspire others to get involved and make a difference in their own communities.
I think that before defining justice, we should first define what "identity" is And what type of identity desrves to be accepted Edit: just to clarify, I'm talking about ideas people consider part of their identity that are harmful to others
I find the conversation of what to do about the "truly bad person" to be one of the least productive ones to have in the context of justice. It focuses all of our attention onto the tail end of a bell curve, and distorts our whole view of what justice can or should be. I see this especially in a lot of laws named after certain people, or laws passed after certain crimes. The movement towards trying children as adults began in New York after one such case, involving a kid who indiscriminately murdered multiple individuals on the subway. The sensationalization of the crime, and the subsequent realization that he would be released after aging out of the juvenile justice system, lead the legislature to pass a law to "deal" with such outlier cases involving "truly bad" kids. The result, predictably, has been an explosion of cases where children have been tried as adults for a variety of crimes of varying severity. As one might expect, it has hit Black children especially hard, as they are already seen as more mature and culpable for their actions than white children. We need a justice system that produces the fairest, most just results for the greatest number of people, victims included. The state has shown time and time again that it can't be trusted to execute such a vision, or even anything approaching it.
Yes. Something I would add as a downside of punishment is the straightforward yet often ignored fact that someone has to do the punishment, I'm not talking of an institution but an individual: if you want someone wiped or beheaded; someone would have to do the wiping and beheading, and god knows not me nor any other healthy person would do such a traumatizing job willingly. Sadly a very common consequence of we living in the modern world is that our corrupting institutions are so naturalized that we don't think about them, not they workers not they victims. Person transgressive/bad? Just send them to the hospital/ward/prison and don't ever think about the issue again! For many reasons punishment might end up being a neccesity, but please lets avoid fetichizing the damn thing. Punishment requires victims, punishment requires victims.
I don't believe in "bad people" but I do believe there are a rare few who, for whatever reason, will not ever stop their harmful behavior. One perspective I've been learning about is the concept of the wendigo. Not the horror movie version but the Anishinaabe concept. I'm reading "Becoming Kin: An Indigenous Call to Unforgetting the Past and Reimagining Our Future" by Patty Krawec, and in it she relates the story of Jack Fiddler, an Ojibwe leader. In 1907 he and his brother were arrested by the Canadian police and charged with the murder of a woman named Wahasakapeequay. Fiddler and other members of the community believed she was possessed by a wendigo. Now I don't have the background or education to speak confidently on what that means, but as I understand it, the wendigo represents a pattern of violent or cannibalistic behavior triggered by extreme conditions of stress and starvation. The Fiddler brothers attempted to drive out the spirit but failed. As I understand it, they believed Wahasakapeequay was a threat to the community who could not be stopped any other way, so they killed her. The Canadian state did not recognize the validity of their remedy and responded with violence of its own.
Justice doesn't exist, nothing can "make-up" for bad things: bad things, once created, exist in the past forever, and exist in the present for as long as we allow it to. A "just world", as in a world organized perfectly for justice, wouldn't care about bad stuff being created as long as more bad stuff is created, in compensation, to give to the people creating bad stuff. Screw justice, I'd rather pursue a world which works to minimize as much bad and create as much good as possible, thank you. Edit: this is in agreement with the video, and not intended to be an argument in disagreement with it. Lets work for Utopia!
Justice does exist. If it didn't, there wouldn't be any word for it. Those people who do evil are - somehow - punished for it. In the end, the wrong is compensated for. It is true that evil can't necessarily be undone, but good can be brought out of evil. That doesn't excuse the evil in the slightest, but it doesn't paint the nihilistic picture that you have. Evil is a defect, not a positive thing. To minimize the bad is to do good.
@@truecatholic1 And no. It compensates for absolutely nothing. Killing someone is still a negative, whether they killed someone else or not. A good would be bringing back the life lost. But that cannot be done. So simple yet so utterly lost to the crowd is the concept they supposedly value of "two wrongs don't make a right."
I appreciate this comprehensive breakdown of justice. I agree that there may not be a panacea just yet because of human's natural tendency to use the easiest/laziest solution for complex problems. When we can do enough thorough research without judging others for their nuanced life histories, harms, and weaknesses, I believe we may develop more adept and adaptive strategies to support people of a wide variety of situations. However, this will require a long game strategy in which more people learn the skills necessary to point out the injustices in effective ways for policymakers, stakeholders, and key decision makers are swayed not just by the data, but by proposed solutions.
I appreciate you taking issues like abuse seriously. I do believe it would be less common if we removed so many institutional harms first, but manipulative and abusive behaviors need to be considered. And I appreciate that you did
You can make a lensless monocle by poking a needle hole in something to look through. Works for any prescription. Works best with plenty of light. Business cards are a good thickness for it
This is a great introduction. I was talking with an anarchist friend of mine recently about how the Left needs to engage more with issues of justice. Why are we not offering working class more opportunities to avoid social conflict within their communities? It is, as you say in regards to transformative justice, hard work.
States cannot be abolished even if they manically disappeared everywhere they will gradually come back because in one form as a state or another as a corporate dystopia, an entity with a monopoly over force will eventually come on top no matter what. Unless radical steps that don’t not include abolishing the state are taken.
I'm glad you are here making RUclips videos instead of implementing these failed ideas. It's fun and interesting to think about these things nonetheless.
25:12 100%. Any system of dealing with "literally baseline evil" people needs to be able to deal with them being In Control as much as somebody can be of that system, and, well, the most clear solution is to minimize how much sombody is able to be In Control of it.
As implied in the video, true justice can only happen by ending othering. One step we can take is to develop more complex interdependent relationships without hierarchy.
@@AmirDarkOne I am of the mind that people are not born criminals. That in many ways societies contribute to the creation of criminals. There is a difference between preventing criminality and existing criminality. Eventually most criminals go back into society, so they need to be rehabilitated to prevent recidivism. Otherwise it is an endless cycle of building more prisons. This is too complicated to fully address in a online comment thread.
@@barryrobbins7694 do all the preventing you want criminals exist, sucking their dick wont change that also, no need for a prison all you need is give thousand lashes for every cent criminal steals and death penalty for any major crime
the problem with trying to base something as core as the justice system on multiplex relationships is that such things cannot consistently happen, and indeed would either die entirely or kill if you tried to force it, within the dense complex society which allows for career specialization. the kind of society you need to have and keep the internet and such. such societies will by default exceed the Dunbar number and either the society will splinter or people will just default to monoplex relationships based on the society's core values or themes.
Part of the fundamental issue with figuring out a system of justice is that the human intuitive notion of fairness contains contradictions. The field of study that has explored this the most is probably electoral science, and Arrow's Impossibility Theorem is an instructive, formal example of these inherent contradictions.
I will say that as someone who has participated in sevral mediated sessions of something that happened due to a work place conflict at a non-profit that had some key focus on restorative justice I really wish I had known some of the problems with the idea as after a sevral medieated sessions the final focus being more on the social peice end kinda socailly forcing one of the parties to just have to later quitly leave the company with an overall lack of support from co-workers to them. It sucked. I wish I had known some of its short comings as it could have helped verbalize what was happening in the situation and maybe helped with a better outcome.
* in Canadian Kermit voice * Anarchy sounds wonderful, but have you seen lobsters? How can human beings be expected to live in harmony in an unstructured society when creatures as advanced as the lobster live in a social dominance hierarchy? Something something Carl Jung, something something Solzhenitsyn.
@@novinceinhosic3531 take away the lobsters, Jung, and Solzhenitsyn, and there's almost nothing left except the Canadian Kermit voice. Fwiw I'm not against all forms of hierarchy -- rather, I think that authority, the concept that hierarchy should exist for its own sake, is nonsense. It is my view that any emergent hierarchy should be allowed to exist as long as it serves some purpose of or fulfills some need to better the conditions of the people under the hierarchy. The real problem is that the notion of obeying authority for the sake of obeying authority tends to ossify hierarchies into pure emanation rather than a dynamic relationship where emergence from the bottom corrects any mistakes in the higher levels. It's like a neural network but backwards: in a neural network, the data is fed in through the lower layer and forward through higher layers to create an output (it is generally a dimension reduction exercise; i.e. there are fewer outputs than inputs); mistakes are recognized from the outputs, and corrections are propagated backwards through the network toward the inputs; a hierarchy is the inverse, where the inputs are the decisions/actions from the higher levels, and the corrections must come through the bottom layers and propagate upwards. A neural network that fails to learn is useless, and a hierarchy that fails to adapt to the needs and purposes of those under it is not only useless but also tends toward injustice. That's my 2¢.
I've largely stopped watching leftist video essayists because I realized that many of them tend to just rehash the same ideological soundbites ad nauseum, telling their audiences what to think rather than encouraging them to change how they think. After watching this and a few of your other videos though, I think I'm going to stick around for your content. You do a really good job presenting radical concepts in very causal, down-to-earth ways that don't rely on esoteric theory-dumping and I think most people would be open to at least hearing. This video in particular reminded me a lot of how I try to explain police and prison abolition to people.
Please say it louder! This is the video I've been looking for! So much concise and clear information delivered so perfectly. The artwork is also so beautiful and poignant to what you're talking about. Thank you for making this!
"They are evil"? "We are righteous"? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history. Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right... Justice will prevail you say?! But of course it will! Whoever wins the war... Becomes justice.
Interesting video. However, I am really interested in what you mean by "community"? Is it a neighborhood, a street, a city? And how can we ensure that the current conservative societal dynamics will not prevail in, let's say, a community of a small village town. I find many concepts from this video interesting, but I have seen too many examples of how victim of, say, rape, gets blamed for ruining a life of a decent man. What could you do to make sure that it doesn't happen? After all, particularchy and national discrimination and all kinds of other stuff can't be diminished in a day, they will affect people's opinions for decades from now!
I really like the Tollan law from SG1. I mean, they were going to let Kor'el, a Goa'uld, argue on his own behalf against Skaara, his host and slave body. Seems pretty fair. Abusable, certainly. I'm not saying there aren't bug patches needed.. But still a good starting point.
Let’s not forget about violence against non-human animals. When we let that happen, it is a short path to justifying violence against humans. Speciesism is another form of institutionalized violence that is creating havoc on our planet’s environment and climate. When any form of violence is tolerated and even encouraged, it is easy to use exploitation of « lesser beings » to reach someone’s goals of money and greed. In case of non-human animals, the people seeking to expose the real violence behind closed doors are treated like the worst terrorists even if they are peacefully trying to show what is really going on. « If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everybody would be vegetarian » - Paul McCartney.
"The most absurd apology for authority and law is that they serve to diminish crime. Aside from the fact that the State is itself the greatest criminal, breaking every written and natural law, stealing in the form of taxes, killing in the form of war and capital punishment, it has come to an absolute standstill in coping with crime. It has failed utterly to destroy or even minimize the horrible scourge of its own creation." ~ Emma Goldman
Nice quote
I mean, laws do serve purpose, but it's not to diminish crime. Authority is kind of necessary to enforce laws. Even in anarchism authority and boundaries exist. However I agree on the rest, and police definitely do not exist to diminish crime, either. They don't serve to prevent it either.
@@LiftedGamingLoL Authority is about control only, not justice in the eyes of the state. Thus the exestince of the police'
Wonder which natural laws she is referring to...
@@PayneAdams-mp2zzI'm going to guess the good ones and not the bad made up ones
My favorite thing about your videos is that instead of simply railing against the current system, you imagine what the alternatives look like.
@nattypol2436 Destroying is so much easier than creating.
@@Nai-qk4vp"The urge to destroy is also a creative urge".
But I see a problem of emphasis on both sides and nowhere near enough balance, like this channel provides.
Some are only concerned with their idea of a utopian future, some fetishize revolution, some are married to their preferred means, some eschew means entirely and focus too much on the current situation - almost hopelessly like they're addicted to the misery, some (primarily vanguardists) are more into some imagined transitory period than the future, some are living in the past and only seem interested in endlessly rehashing/justifying it, etc, its important to know the history, understand the present, and have visions of a possible fury, I just don't see it enough - especially online.
That's why this is one of the only political channels I still fw other than a couple of others like Zoe Baker, FD Signifier, Anark, lil Bill, and maybe one or two others I check on occasionally.
What are we dealing with, how do we overcome it, what do we do then, and how well can we know ourselves to ensure we don't repeat past mistakes or lose important parts of ourselves 🏴
@ Mythil Such a great point.
yeah it's awesome. I've been watching this channel for a while but recently fell into the more reactionary in the non political sense side of political youtube lol. Hasan specifically. Obviously way better than many other options but eventually even when you agree with them on the most part you just start to feel that this is almost entirelt just entertainment, not actually really putting anything forward other than a few explanations and responses you haven't heard of thought befoee every now and then. Again, not bad and probably helps spread good ideology but not so much good specific ideas and plans like Andrewism and others do
Yet, he completely ignores how Marxism has infiltrated all of Western culture.
Increased immigration, drug abuse, homelessness, and crime are the result.
A Marxist-based “soft of crime” approach to Law Enforcement creates an removes all consequences of crime.
“A world where the harm people may perpetuate will be addressed with consideration for the needs of the victim, perpetrator, and community alike.” -YES, I’ve been trying to explain this stance for ages, thank you for this concise wording 🙏
Why should anyone care about the needs of a perpetrator?
@@jordanthompson8268 Essentially: digging deep into the reasons or conditions that led to a person to commit a crime can help us improve those conditions on a societal level. By changing the catalyst to a crime, we can prevent repeat crimes from that perpetrator - as well as any would-be perpetrators. It also doesn’t really mean “no consequences”, but consequences should be balanced. It’s an approach that is way more concerned w/ improving the lives of everyone rather than punishing for the sake of.. punishment.
@@ZombiBunni_ If the catalyst is that the criminal just wanted to do the crime, what difference does it make? And what's more, if someone rapes and kills a child why would I be concerned about improving his life. In that case and some others, punishment is almost mandatory, be it life in prison or death.
@@jordanthompson8268 Your comment history makes it clear that you’re asking in bad faith & aren’t actually trying to understand or discuss🫡 have fun w/ that
@@ZombiBunni_ "I hadn't considered that and will now withdraw from the conversation." Just answer the question if you actually can.
This part: "where people struggle for THEIR WHOLE LIVES due to lack IN AN AGE OF ABUNDANCE"...
_Solarpunk Justice_ that seeks the truth and loves us living creatures!
A delight, it is
I think the view of an age of abundance is misguided, because while true the actual production of said abundance is centralised in a few wealthy countries in the global north.
What this means is that if the abundant produce be it train cars, medicine or food were to be redistributed under the current production regime the global south would be at the mercy of countries in the global north. Which on paper is not inherently wrong but the global north has a track record of screwing the south.
For example America and Europe grow enough food to feed roughly 10 billion people but much of that food goes to waste.
If that food was redistributed to Africa it would be good at first, until a trump or maloni style figure comes to power and uses said food and medicines as a weapon to get concessions out of African countries.
Whereas if African countries were self-sufficient in food, medicine, armaments and industrial/transportation equipment. We can feed ourselves, defend ourselves, build our own green tech and train systems cross crossing the continent.
History has shown that relying on the global north and white majority countries to be nice is a quick way to get annihilated.
Imo the issue is not the amount of production but where the production takes place.
Africa does not need their redistributed wealth, we need to create our own wealth in our own system that fits the needs of the people on the continent.
To me Pan-Africanism means the entire black world working together to use the vast resources, ingenuity and skill we have to create a better world for all black peoples and be able to defend our sovereignty, humanity and rights in a dangerous world amidst the new multipolar global order.
By the end of the century black people are going to be half of humanity. Half of every person alive will soon be black. We have everything we need to succeed on our own so why should we rely on the ‘kindness’ of strangers when they have demonstrated for 5 centuries that said ‘kindness’ is not free and never will be.
If left to our own devices, Afro-Caribbean’s, AA’s and black Hispanics can and will provide on our own.
Absolutely. That is why I can't sleep.
We can do so much better. We will.
Justice is many things but it isn't blind.
Agreed being blind to everything is ignorance. justice sees everything and takes everything into account to bend the moral ark towards good.
Justice is as woke as it comes
_Solarpunk Justice_ that seeks the truth and loves us living creatures!
A delight, it is
Justice is blind but not deaf, it will hear out arguments and circumstances, but does not look at the person who acts in a partial manner.
@@JerzyWolodyjowski4848 So says the common sense ideal of justice.
Reality is very different than that.
"Restorative justice" has become a buzz word in education over the past few years in the States. But it's a joke. The system is used to sweep sometimes very serious actions by students under the rug, and even when well-meaning staff members try to implement it, it falls flat without the support of the community. One of the more difficult aspects of developing a justice system is that every person has their own values and their own idea of what is/causes harm and how to address it. As a teacher, I regularly have to speak to students about retaliation because many of their parents will teach them they have to "hit back" and "defend themselves". Then there are kids who are taught that you always solve a problem by running to a teacher, which is often important, especially if there is danger, but in milder situations it stops them from developing their own conflict solving skills. I spend all day teaching students what harm is and when something is or isnt a big deal. But this is something most adults fundamentally disagree on, and they get conflicting messages at home. That is the hardest thing to solve when it comes to developing a justice system in my opinion.
I did restorative justice training one of the most important basis was the readiness of the victim and consent by both to a resoring process. I agree with the buzzword label because now on college it's used to mute victims and doest support neither empowerment of the victim nor accountability of the perpetrator. It makes me so sad and angry.
Thank you for sharing.
@@Freddy-rs8og Just out of curiosity, what did you expect? You're telling the victim to swallow their resentment for the sake of their malefactor avoiding punishment and the college avoiding negative publicity. What can "reconciling" a victim to their abuser possibly lead to other than continuing abuse?
One uncomfortable fact all these "alternative justice" ideas seem to want to ignore is that one necessary component of justice - perhaps the most important - is to reassure the victims that they're safe, that harming them leads to punishment for the perpetrators. And that means making the guilty suffer in proportion to the suffering they caused. If your system does not do this, then your system is further harming the victims for the sake of perpetrators - or, more likely, your comfort and convenience - and no amount of fantasizing about reconciliation being a substitute for punishment will change that - quite the contrary, a "forgiveness ritual" is simply another humiliation to endure.
So no, "restorative justice" is not about "empowering" the victim, it's precisely about silencing them so the whole incident can be declared solved. What empowers the victim is knowing that the perpetrator was adequately punished. Reconciliation may or may not follow after that, but if you skip the punishment part you don't have justice, you have a nice rug to sweep the victims under. And it sounds like the educational system understands the true nature of "restorative justice" perfectly while you either don't or don't want to.
Block and do not engage with this clovermacknime, he is here only to disrupt and lie score points and to whinge.
Not have a discussion.
Bad faith actor. Do not engage. Just block him and move on
@@Nai-qk4vp Do you have some actual reason to believe this, aside from not liking what you're hearing?
On your point regarding the systemic effect of sexual violence perpetrated against men: couldn't it be argued that while the violence itself might not be a manifestation of patriarchal violence, the reaction the victimized party receives is? Because society already views victimhood and vulnerability as inherently feminine and therefore deserving of scorn and derision and we already see this in action with the way non-men are mocked and gaslit and silenced when they speak out about the abuse they've endured. But even then I'm noticing that somehow when men come forward about being harmed in this way their suffering is treated as even more of a joke, like a failure on their part to "be a man". Would you consider that to be a manifestation of patriarchal violence the same way non-men experience patriarchal violence? I really hope my question makes sense. I learned quite a lot from this video and I appreciate the way you explain things
I get where you're coming from. I agree that the reaction that male victims receive is in fact a consequence of our patriarchal society.
I do think the entitlement to domination violence comes from patriarchy/property and class indoctrination and the hierarchy supremacy mindset that come wth it. The need to overpower instead of empower, the righteousness that comes with inherent power or projected one and the negative "consequences" when perceived power is not maintained, i.e a man shall not be victimized and when it happens it gets ignored and moked to avoid critical analysis of inequality and instead make it a problem of not being enough rather than the problem that society believes it could be justified that anyone deserves their autonomy being harmed... which would come up in case of victimization, while when class is maintained the control that victimizes is labeled righteousness or authority to control order. Not English native so this may be hard to read but would love ur pov.
Abuse is one of the main mechanisms of patriarchal violence but it is intended to uplift men. They are experiencing patriarchal violence through abuse but they aren’t the ones who are the intended victims of a systemic level. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think they need support.
"Justice is balance between people. Guaranteeing that no one is mistreated and guaranteeing the person who needs the most help gets it." -Neely Fuller Jr.
“I believe that Justice and mercy are simply one and the same thing without justice to the full there can be no mercy and without mercy to the full there can be no justice.”- George MacDonald
Based quote
Great video! As always, well thought out and laid out. The difference between violence and domination is one that will help me in conversations with pro-status-quo-ers about justice, how we deal with it, and how we could be dealing with it. Thanks!
I agree on pretty much all your points, but some kind of prison system is needed, especially in the worst of cases. An environment of rehabilitation entirely separate from the standard community is needed for both those who are entirely unrepentant for terrible acts, and for those who would be unable to become better in normal society without causing further harm to others.
I appreciate how any prison system is the complete antithesis to anarchist theory, but there's a fella out there who did a terrible act of sexual violence to my mother before I was born, and I truly believe he shouldn't renter the regular world until everyone's damn sure it's not gonna happen again.
Prisons don't help in anything with that, you know?
He might just start assaultig his fellow inmates in there.
That's how worthless prisons are at preventing harm.
@@Nai-qk4vp What's the other option then? In cases where the methods proposed by this video don't really work you only really have three options, exile, imprisonment or death. Exile is just pushing the problem to the next fella down the road, and I'm not a fan of killing people, so I think we have to try and employ a reformed prison system.
@@Nai-qk4vpok then what do you suggest lmao
You should not call it a prison system because that's not what it is.
It's a detainment system for those who are an acute danger to those around them. In the system you imagine, people are kept as humanely as possible for as long as their rehabilitation requires without endangering those who are not involved.
Current prisons partially fullfill that role, they keep dangerous people away but don't rehabilitate at all as pointed out in the video. They also multiply violence and create a criminal class which is used as a distraction for normal people.
I highly recommend studying Timothy Murithi's article: "An African Perspective on Peace Education: Ubuntu lessons in reconciliation" for a glimpse at the justice system which prevailed in Southern Africa among Bantu-speaking peoples.
I think the concept of a 'bad person' is the most interesting part of this. How do we determine if someone is irredeemable? And what would it mean to 'remove' them?
Usually heinous murderers are considered irredeemable and death is their sentence, which I'm fine with.
I don't use terms like "bad person" or "good person" just to avoid oversimplifying things.
As for determining lost causes... I say, try everything you can to fix it. But some people either aren't ready or aren't willing to amend their behavior. If you can determine that this is the case, you have your answer. If you can't convince them to try, keep them away from other would-be victims in a humane capacity until they changr their mind or die of natural causes. (I wouldn't recommend the death penalty because I don't trust state executions to only target guilty parties, nor do I trust group lynching).
@CrescentUmbreon I agree about the bad person/good person thing. It's just too subjective. I think everybody has the capacity to change, but the key part is weather or not they choose to. Everyone should get the choice, but if they keep choosing to continue doing horrible things over and over, they can't be overlooked. The priority should be to prevent any further harm, but as people we need make sure our compassion for other human beings remains.
Edit: I also don't agree with the death penalty either.
@@monster-enthusiast Should a murderer or rapist get a second chance? If so, how many rapes/murders do they get away with before run out their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chances?
@@jordanthompson8268 That didn't seem like a genuine question, but I'm gonna answer it anyway. Firstly, justice isn't one size fits all. Also, murder and rape aren't equal offenses. If you kill a rapist, do you really think the killer is just as bad as the rapist? Also, I don't agree with capital punishment, but if the victim or victim's family member decides to give the offender their comeuppance and said offender happens to die, that's just natural selection. You fuck around and you find out. Secondly, the whole second chances thing is (1) for people who actually know they did wrong and want to do better, and what rapist/murder do you know that genuinely regrets what they did? Not many I'm guessing. And (2) because a lot of people will criminalize and condemn a person that easily could turn their lives around if they actually had help. (Obviously talking about minor offenses/issues.) You can't always tell upon first glance the difference between someone that's struggling and someone that's just an entitled ass. Also, a better society that focuses on reform, compassion, rehabilitation, and community instead of punishment and prison will encourage kindness and diswade people from committing heinous acts like rape. Hate breeds hate and kindness breeds kindness. If you raise people with good values and teach them to respect people's consent and value life, chances are they're gonna be better people than the misogynistic capitalistic dirt bags that current society keeps pushing out. Also, the whole "but what about the rapists and murderers" question is usually a dogwhistle for people who just want to say capitalism, prisons, and capital punishment are completely justified and should continue to exist.
i really like what you do, both in the sense of what your mission is, as well as what your means are.
i find it paramount to define the words one uses; especially when the words are as loaded as 'justice' or 'violence', yet i feel like the definition of violence you provided is insufficient as far as it explicitly only concerns the use physical power, while i see and feel the use of psychological power used for a great deal of violence (especially, but not only, from states). as a trans person, for example, i regularly see people trying to make my existence 'worthy of capital punishment' or just impossible. and i feel that that idea, and the rhetoric around it not only implies, but also by itself is, a great deal of violence
Fair enough. How is this for an expanded definition?
Violence is the use of physical force, coercion, or manipulation with the intent to injure, abuse, damage, destroy, exert control, and/or subjugate others. Violence may be immediate, involving physical injury and destruction of property, and violence may be gradual, eroding well-being, autonomy, and dignity over time. It may include overt acts of aggression, emotional abuse, structural discrimination, economic exploitation, ecological degradation, and any behaviour or system that perpetuates domination and undermines the agency and overall quality of life of individuals or communities.
@@Andrewism i think this definition is more aligned with the concept we discussed.
thank's a lot
Andrew, please keep putting out these videos. You are raising consciousness. Ignore those that dismiss them as utopian thinking. Metaphorically speaking, Utopia is always the best destination - no matter how far we may need to travel.
an egalitarian approach to justice if you will.... great content as usual.
For a just world, we absolutely need to move away from a system that prioritizes rewards and punishments as a set of incentives. And to replace that with caring for each other. Justice looks so different if we're invested in each others' long term futures
Superb insight. Love is the Law.
This clarifies so many things, especially how toxic power is to this process.
So excited to hear this wisdom & truth! Thank you for starting this conversation 💛
As a survivor & someone who also tries to hold myself accountable, I really appreciate this video 🌸
Same. I am the survivor of ongoing torture.
I hold myself accountable. I can say you don’t want to be tortured by a stranger, possibly to elevate a weak ego, grabbing onto you and torturing you.
It happens with todays weapons and you don’t want an offender destroying your health and life. Thanks for your video. ❤️
In his book "Island", Aldous Huxley somehow addresses the "bad people" issue. Not in the sense of what to do with people who already went bad but in regards of admiting there are certain kinds of personalities which are naturally prone to an agressive behaviour. What the utopian society the book describes proposes is using this energy for constructive purposes. That in a formative stage (education of the individuals), not by repressing but by validating and offering positive contexts where to release this energy as to avoid people going bad in a later stage. I liked that idea and those in the book as a whole.
Great video, as all of Andrew's. Thanks, dude.
You are a great man and you inspired me to speak up as well; I am now doing videos more than I ever have
I have gone to the point where I'm watching almost every single one of your videos when I can. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I am learning so much.
_Solarpunk Justice_ that seeks the truth and loves us living creatures!
A delight, it is
Here after reading that the hero Aaron Bushnell used to watch your videos. He lived and died for justice and I hope Palestine gets justice soon, whether that be in our lifetime or not. I am glad he led me to find your channel, whenever I watch you I will think of him.
I'm in a particularly lonely and tired stage of my life and these videos give me something I feel like I can rest with
Another great question is: how do/did societies with no prisons deal with crime? There are horror stories about many of those, but also examples of deep wisdom we all can learn from.
Did you know in some African tribes not only a thief of say a cow would be called to court, but also his village. They would be asked: what did you do as village that this man needed to steal a cow? Or one where a whole village will surround a murderer with love until they break down in tears and start healing. So why does our justice system look so much like ritualised revenge, which doesn't solve any issue, not even help prevent criminals to strike again?
The needs of the classes in power to maintain that power have come to dominate the practices of justice and to skew heavily the conceptions of it. Keeping people afraid out of jail and keeping them compliant and useful inside of it does that well; addressing systemic causes is out of the question entirely. There's some historic tendency to consider justice as revenge but made impersonal and proportionate. That's a sense that can usefully be played up to maintain a hierarchy so that's what we get under one.
@@jeffengel2607 Yeah, and this even when all science says other approaches help reduce crime way more.
Healing? What if the murder itself is "healing"? Who are you to determine the "real needs" of the perpetrator?
@@PayneAdams-mp2zz Hmm, you red things I neither wrote nor meant. Try wondering, not judging. I don't need judging.
@@KootFloris You wrote "They surround the murderer with love until they start crying and healing", as if it isnt them that need to heal, and that if it isnt the murderer who refused to love their victim. Or even, more interestingly, what if As i said, the "spiritual healing" the murderer needed WAS the murder...
I really appreciated you getting in to the details on the characteristics and behaviors of people for whom this new type of justice will be most effective and what are signs it may not.
I've been mulling on that for a while as I try to incorporate it into my personal life.
Very useful!
I'm suspicious of the word justice because too often it means revenge. Even reworkings of the term like "restorative justice" or "social justice" keep the stink of harm about them - they're terms of practical compromise that ultimately often include taking something away.
I think all we can and should expect from "justice" is that we try to be fair to each other and protect each other. We need a different word for that. Let vengeance be its own concept, even if it's depersonalized via society and a court system.
It's not revenge, it's retribution.
Revenge is Donald Trump trying to arrest everyone who criticizes him.
Retribution is an SA survivor finally having their voices heard and their abuser losing their job/reputation/wealth/power.
Justice IS revenge. Its the entire point. The moment collectively honest about it, we can work towards something worthwhile from that point on, because vegances is all about equalizing the wellbeing of the whole group. Its written in our biology for this, and I think we do ourself a disservice ignoring that.
@@Dave102693 "Written in our biology" [citation fucking needed]
MUH HOOMAN NATUR. No dice. Natural does not mean good or right.
Always love your videos, they give me things to think about
Glad to hear that!
Your videos have done more than any other resource to help educate me and reinforce my appreciation of these ideals. The literature and counter arguments (and counter-counter arguments, etc.) can often feel overwhelming, and I'm not always sure if I'm jumping into the right readings or what context I may be missing. The way you organize and present material is so logical and thorough yet clear! And it gives me the vocabulary and perspective to do deeper dives for further education afterwards, which is a rare gift all on its own. Thank you so much for all you do.
One video and I'm still panicking but not getting worse. Another and I'm realising that I'm actually finding a foothold on my anxiety and my goals. Three videos and you've helped me to achieve (just today's "small steps") what I feared would take many more hours or days. Not just cos you have such a soothing prosody and voice, but cos you always share with us how to keep the ability to hope and to keep on fighting. Endless thanks, as ever.
And, as ever... Peace.
Excellent analysis! I will say though that I do see where women’s abuse of men can have ties to patriarchy in the narratives we tell about male victims/survivors. The silencing of male survivors stems from a slew of patriarchal expectations on what men do and do not do as well as what women are perceived to be capable of. I work with SA survivors for a living and can see the ways patriarchy backfires on men because it was never put into place to make them happy in reality. It follows a script that they can follow it with much more large scale success than say a woman wielding internalized misogyny against another woman but the thing is patriarchy never accounts for men to deal with trauma of any kind. This isn’t to say I think you are wrong, just my insights from this video. Keep up the dope work, my dude!!
There are many small-scale initiatives that individuals and communities can take to promote mutual respect and personal responsibility. Here are a few examples:
Community gardens: Community gardens bring together people from diverse backgrounds and promote cooperation and shared responsibility for a common goal.
Neighborhood watch programs: Neighborhood watch programs encourage individuals to look out for one another and take responsibility for the safety of their community.
Recycling and waste reduction initiatives: Recycling and waste reduction initiatives promote environmental responsibility and can bring communities together around a shared commitment to sustainability.
Restorative justice programs: Restorative justice programs emphasize mutual respect and personal responsibility in addressing conflict and harm within communities.
Mentorship programs: Mentorship programs provide opportunities for individuals to learn from and support one another, promoting a culture of mutual respect and personal responsibility.
Volunteering and community service: Volunteering and community service provide opportunities for individuals to give back to their community and take responsibility for the well-being of others.
Civic engagement: Civic engagement, such as participating in local government, voting, and advocating for issues that affect one's community, encourages individuals to take an active role in shaping their society and taking responsibility for its outcomes.
Here are some practical steps that can be taken to promote and implement small-scale initiatives in America:
Identify the issue: Identify a local problem that needs to be addressed, such as a lack of access to healthy food options or a need for community cleanup efforts.
Connect with others: Reach out to others in your community who are also interested in addressing the issue. This can be done through social media or local community groups.
Plan and organize: Work with your group to create a plan of action, including specific goals and tasks that need to be accomplished.
Gather resources: Identify the resources you'll need to accomplish your goals, such as volunteers, funding, and supplies.
Take action: Put your plan into action, starting with small steps that can build momentum over time.
Evaluate and adjust: Regularly evaluate your progress and adjust your approach as needed to ensure that you're making a meaningful impact.
Document and share: Document your efforts and share them with others through social media, local news outlets, or community events. This can help to inspire others to get involved and make a difference in their own communities.
How does restorative justice deal with murder?
@@donovanberserk4993 By leaving murderers in prison. Are you dumb?
You know what a restorative justice program is, right?
@@jeffbrownstainNot really festorative if you just leave someone in a cage forever. We already have that. It's shite, it seolves nothing.
I think that before defining justice, we should first define what "identity" is
And what type of identity desrves to be accepted
Edit: just to clarify, I'm talking about ideas people consider part of their identity that are harmful to others
Thank you Andrewism. You are a LEGEND- appreciate the knowledge shared always
I find the conversation of what to do about the "truly bad person" to be one of the least productive ones to have in the context of justice. It focuses all of our attention onto the tail end of a bell curve, and distorts our whole view of what justice can or should be.
I see this especially in a lot of laws named after certain people, or laws passed after certain crimes. The movement towards trying children as adults began in New York after one such case, involving a kid who indiscriminately murdered multiple individuals on the subway.
The sensationalization of the crime, and the subsequent realization that he would be released after aging out of the juvenile justice system, lead the legislature to pass a law to "deal" with such outlier cases involving "truly bad" kids.
The result, predictably, has been an explosion of cases where children have been tried as adults for a variety of crimes of varying severity. As one might expect, it has hit Black children especially hard, as they are already seen as more mature and culpable for their actions than white children.
We need a justice system that produces the fairest, most just results for the greatest number of people, victims included. The state has shown time and time again that it can't be trusted to execute such a vision, or even anything approaching it.
Yes.
Something I would add as a downside of punishment is the straightforward yet often ignored fact that someone has to do the punishment, I'm not talking of an institution but an individual: if you want someone wiped or beheaded; someone would have to do the wiping and beheading, and god knows not me nor any other healthy person would do such a traumatizing job willingly.
Sadly a very common consequence of we living in the modern world is that our corrupting institutions are so naturalized that we don't think about them, not they workers not they victims. Person transgressive/bad? Just send them to the hospital/ward/prison and don't ever think about the issue again!
For many reasons punishment might end up being a neccesity, but please lets avoid fetichizing the damn thing. Punishment requires victims, punishment requires victims.
I love the art you choose for your videos.
I don't believe in "bad people" but I do believe there are a rare few who, for whatever reason, will not ever stop their harmful behavior. One perspective I've been learning about is the concept of the wendigo. Not the horror movie version but the Anishinaabe concept. I'm reading "Becoming Kin: An Indigenous Call to Unforgetting the Past and Reimagining Our Future" by Patty Krawec, and in it she relates the story of Jack Fiddler, an Ojibwe leader. In 1907 he and his brother were arrested by the Canadian police and charged with the murder of a woman named Wahasakapeequay. Fiddler and other members of the community believed she was possessed by a wendigo. Now I don't have the background or education to speak confidently on what that means, but as I understand it, the wendigo represents a pattern of violent or cannibalistic behavior triggered by extreme conditions of stress and starvation. The Fiddler brothers attempted to drive out the spirit but failed. As I understand it, they believed Wahasakapeequay was a threat to the community who could not be stopped any other way, so they killed her. The Canadian state did not recognize the validity of their remedy and responded with violence of its own.
Justice doesn't exist, nothing can "make-up" for bad things: bad things, once created, exist in the past forever, and exist in the present for as long as we allow it to. A "just world", as in a world organized perfectly for justice, wouldn't care about bad stuff being created as long as more bad stuff is created, in compensation, to give to the people creating bad stuff.
Screw justice, I'd rather pursue a world which works to minimize as much bad and create as much good as possible, thank you.
Edit: this is in agreement with the video, and not intended to be an argument in disagreement with it. Lets work for Utopia!
That's a useful way of framing things, thank you for sharing!
Justice does exist. If it didn't, there wouldn't be any word for it. Those people who do evil are - somehow - punished for it. In the end, the wrong is compensated for.
It is true that evil can't necessarily be undone, but good can be brought out of evil. That doesn't excuse the evil in the slightest, but it doesn't paint the nihilistic picture that you have.
Evil is a defect, not a positive thing. To minimize the bad is to do good.
Perhaps the latter fictional perspective has more going for it than it seems; What if the aim of justice is better than the aim of harm reduction?
@@truecatholic1 "Unicorns exist. If they didn't there wouldn't be a word for it".
No dice.
@@truecatholic1 And no. It compensates for absolutely nothing. Killing someone is still a negative, whether they killed someone else or not. A good would be bringing back the life lost. But that cannot be done.
So simple yet so utterly lost to the crowd is the concept they supposedly value of "two wrongs don't make a right."
Thank you for talking about this! It's so important
"Justice is the source of all other virtues" Marcus Aurelius.
Justice meant something else, back then. Otherwise the Romans would not have considered slavery just; but they did.
i really like the art you chose for this video ❤
I appreciate this comprehensive breakdown of justice. I agree that there may not be a panacea just yet because of human's natural tendency to use the easiest/laziest solution for complex problems. When we can do enough thorough research without judging others for their nuanced life histories, harms, and weaknesses, I believe we may develop more adept and adaptive strategies to support people of a wide variety of situations. However, this will require a long game strategy in which more people learn the skills necessary to point out the injustices in effective ways for policymakers, stakeholders, and key decision makers are swayed not just by the data, but by proposed solutions.
I'm glad you made this video, because one of my biggest concerns about anarchism was how law and justice would work
I appreciate you taking issues like abuse seriously. I do believe it would be less common if we removed so many institutional harms first, but manipulative and abusive behaviors need to be considered. And I appreciate that you did
Love it when there’s crossover with my favourite RUclips creators! Olay is great!
Amazing video as always brother keep it up
Very good video, cuts through to the core of what justice should be.
Excellent work, thank you so much for sharing the perspective. I agree
commenting for support/engagement as i can't watch this video in full at the moment, but i look forward to doing it soon
same 👍👍
You can make a lensless monocle by poking a needle hole in something to look through. Works for any prescription. Works best with plenty of light. Business cards are a good thickness for it
This is a great introduction. I was talking with an anarchist friend of mine recently about how the Left needs to engage more with issues of justice. Why are we not offering working class more opportunities to avoid social conflict within their communities? It is, as you say in regards to transformative justice, hard work.
States cannot be abolished even if they manically disappeared everywhere they will gradually come back because in one form as a state or another as a corporate dystopia, an entity with a monopoly over force will eventually come on top no matter what.
Unless radical steps that don’t not include abolishing the state are taken.
This was a masterclass. Like, this should be the first thing you send someone who is skeptical of anarchism, not just justice reform.
I'm glad you are here making RUclips videos instead of implementing these failed ideas. It's fun and interesting to think about these things nonetheless.
how is he supposed to reform the entire prison system
@@ongakira obviously by building prisons for everyone who opposes him
@@justanother240 that makes no sense, dont you have better things to do
@@thesevenkingswelove9554, that was a tongue-in-cheek comment in reference to communist re-education camps. Try not to overthink it.
💜💚
25:12 100%. Any system of dealing with "literally baseline evil" people needs to be able to deal with them being In Control as much as somebody can be of that system, and, well, the most clear solution is to minimize how much sombody is able to be In Control of it.
As implied in the video, true justice can only happen by ending othering. One step we can take is to develop more complex interdependent relationships without hierarchy.
what the hell those that even means?
how does that stop criminals ?
@@AmirDarkOne The comment is about things like clannish exclusionary behavior that divides people.
@@barryrobbins7694
i have the exclusionary mind set that criminals should be excluded from law abiding society
@@AmirDarkOne I am of the mind that people are not born criminals. That in many ways societies contribute to the creation of criminals. There is a difference between preventing criminality and existing criminality. Eventually most criminals go back into society, so they need to be rehabilitated to prevent recidivism. Otherwise it is an endless cycle of building more prisons. This is too complicated to fully address in a online comment thread.
@@barryrobbins7694
do all the preventing you want
criminals exist, sucking their dick wont change that
also, no need for a prison
all you need is give thousand lashes for every cent criminal steals
and death penalty for any major crime
The legal system is so archaic and unscientific.
Do you think you could do a video comparing and contrasting mediators and authority figures
Love this video... it's what my brain rumors about constantly, put together so well vocalized.
the problem with trying to base something as core as the justice system on multiplex relationships is that such things cannot consistently happen, and indeed would either die entirely or kill if you tried to force it, within the dense complex society which allows for career specialization. the kind of society you need to have and keep the internet and such. such societies will by default exceed the Dunbar number and either the society will splinter or people will just default to monoplex relationships based on the society's core values or themes.
Part of the fundamental issue with figuring out a system of justice is that the human intuitive notion of fairness contains contradictions. The field of study that has explored this the most is probably electoral science, and Arrow's Impossibility Theorem is an instructive, formal example of these inherent contradictions.
Never once did I ever think I would hear Drew say "ya gotta let the dogs breathe"🤣🤣🤣
I will say that as someone who has participated in sevral mediated sessions of something that happened due to a work place conflict at a non-profit that had some key focus on restorative justice I really wish I had known some of the problems with the idea as after a sevral medieated sessions the final focus being more on the social peice end kinda socailly forcing one of the parties to just have to later quitly leave the company with an overall lack of support from co-workers to them. It sucked. I wish I had known some of its short comings as it could have helped verbalize what was happening in the situation and maybe helped with a better outcome.
Yet another certified banger. Keep telling it the way you see it, I think you've got the right idea.
Is roasting people a transgression? Because if it is well damn I might have to serve some time in the future.
A revolutionary society will still try you for your roasts against cornbreadtube😂
@@Andrewism I'm about to flee the entire Western Hemisphere at this point. It ain't safe for me in these streets.
10:47 crime isn’t just about going against the state
Crime like robbery is a crime one person does to another
thanks for this video!
Anti nomian hours and I’m here for it!
When it comes to how to deal with criminals, give grace to the humble and resist the proud of heart.
* in Canadian Kermit voice *
Anarchy sounds wonderful, but have you seen lobsters? How can human beings be expected to live in harmony in an unstructured society when creatures as advanced as the lobster live in a social dominance hierarchy? Something something Carl Jung, something something Solzhenitsyn.
@@novinceinhosic3531 take away the lobsters, Jung, and Solzhenitsyn, and there's almost nothing left except the Canadian Kermit voice. Fwiw I'm not against all forms of hierarchy -- rather, I think that authority, the concept that hierarchy should exist for its own sake, is nonsense. It is my view that any emergent hierarchy should be allowed to exist as long as it serves some purpose of or fulfills some need to better the conditions of the people under the hierarchy. The real problem is that the notion of obeying authority for the sake of obeying authority tends to ossify hierarchies into pure emanation rather than a dynamic relationship where emergence from the bottom corrects any mistakes in the higher levels. It's like a neural network but backwards: in a neural network, the data is fed in through the lower layer and forward through higher layers to create an output (it is generally a dimension reduction exercise; i.e. there are fewer outputs than inputs); mistakes are recognized from the outputs, and corrections are propagated backwards through the network toward the inputs; a hierarchy is the inverse, where the inputs are the decisions/actions from the higher levels, and the corrections must come through the bottom layers and propagate upwards. A neural network that fails to learn is useless, and a hierarchy that fails to adapt to the needs and purposes of those under it is not only useless but also tends toward injustice. That's my 2¢.
yay!
I've largely stopped watching leftist video essayists because I realized that many of them tend to just rehash the same ideological soundbites ad nauseum, telling their audiences what to think rather than encouraging them to change how they think. After watching this and a few of your other videos though, I think I'm going to stick around for your content. You do a really good job presenting radical concepts in very causal, down-to-earth ways that don't rely on esoteric theory-dumping and I think most people would be open to at least hearing. This video in particular reminded me a lot of how I try to explain police and prison abolition to people.
A great video with a very important message and very good info. Nice work.
Love your channel!
The way through has always included the crafting of a new legal framework
I needed this my brother…
Much 💗 from Bermuda
Excellent
Justice is just vengeance with velvet gloves. And right now.... those velvet gloves need to come off or we lose our hands.
Please say it louder! This is the video I've been looking for! So much concise and clear information delivered so perfectly. The artwork is also so beautiful and poignant to what you're talking about. Thank you for making this!
This is a quite well thought out assessment.
"They are evil"? "We are righteous"? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history. Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right...
Justice will prevail you say?! But of course it will!
Whoever wins the war... Becomes justice.
Interesting video. However, I am really interested in what you mean by "community"? Is it a neighborhood, a street, a city? And how can we ensure that the current conservative societal dynamics will not prevail in, let's say, a community of a small village town. I find many concepts from this video interesting, but I have seen too many examples of how victim of, say, rape, gets blamed for ruining a life of a decent man. What could you do to make sure that it doesn't happen? After all, particularchy and national discrimination and all kinds of other stuff can't be diminished in a day, they will affect people's opinions for decades from now!
Excellent video, comrade!
Restorative justice✅
I loveeee your accent I can listen to you talk all day man (oop, I have)
For the algorithm
Five words for the algorithm (boosting vid)❤
I really like the Tollan law from SG1.
I mean, they were going to let Kor'el, a Goa'uld, argue on his own behalf against Skaara, his host and slave body.
Seems pretty fair.
Abusable, certainly. I'm not saying there aren't bug patches needed..
But still a good starting point.
I love the visuals you use in your videos. What artist created those works in your degrowth video?
The goal of the justice system should be TO PREVENT INJUSTICE FROM REIGNING.
VS REIGNING JUSTICE DOWN.
How would categorize thiefin a wine?
Hello Andrew, could you possibly clarify what you mean by abuses of power a bit further?
Another great video!
Let’s not forget about violence against non-human animals. When we let that happen, it is a short path to justifying violence against humans. Speciesism is another form of institutionalized violence that is creating havoc on our planet’s environment and climate. When any form of violence is tolerated and even encouraged, it is easy to use exploitation of « lesser beings » to reach someone’s goals of money and greed. In case of non-human animals, the people seeking to expose the real violence behind closed doors are treated like the worst terrorists even if they are peacefully trying to show what is really going on. « If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everybody would be vegetarian » - Paul McCartney.
no
Treat someone like a monster , and they become a monster ?
Shocking , isnt it ?
Great channel!
Great video as always. Mostly commenting for engagement.