Understanding Genesis 1-3 - John Walton and Joe Fleener
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2014
- On 17 July 2013, the Upper Room on our Auckland campus was filled to bursting as people gathered for an evening of dialogue between Old Testament scholar Dr John Walton, of Wheaton College and Associate Pastor Joe Fleener, of Howick Baptist Church, on how to understand Genesis 1-3.
A lot of problems with Fleener's presentation IMO. He appeals to way too many Hellenized sources to be taken seriously regarding ANE thought. When he finally gets to Egyptian or Babylonian thought - just because many people were illiterate does not mean that ancient writings do not accurately reflect the thought of the respective culture. I mean, his argument here is just blatantly illogical. His appeals to the Early Church Fathers are also flimsy, as I suspect that he doesn't agree with much of church theology prior to Luther. He's concerned about the clergy / laity problem raised by the alleged lack of clarity of Scripture created by a reliance on knowledge of Hebrew culture, but this is inconsistent with his admission that most people throughout history were illiterate! Throughout most of church history, most Christians didn't even have access to the Scriptures! If the Bible is so clear, why do we need people with theology degrees??? Wow. Definitely less than impressed with his arguments.
I wish my father could have heard this man while he was alive, would have changed so much.
It’s sad that every time he talks about this, he has to start by defending himself and explaining cultural importance for half of his lecture. I’ve now watched about 10 of these, and he never has time to go completely through Genesis 1-3
Obviously Fleener didn’t craft his talk to address this specific talk by Walton in this very moment, but it didn’t sound like Walton was denying material origin in any sense. He was simply saying that the writers angle was not centered around materialism. I don’t really get why Fleener kept bringing up how all the other church fathers were able to pull things about the material from the Genesis account. Of course you can do that, but doesn’t mean it should be the central focus. The parallels between the Garden of Eden and the tabernacle/temple are STAGGERING. That alone should tell you that the focus of the author is pointed towards something specific. 7 days creation sequence, 7 day temple inauguration, the geographical location of the garden as it relates to the rest of earth, the point of God’s rest… it’s clear to me that the author was going after a particular angle and to settle in on material creation (in my opinion) is all you have to focus on when you don’t consider the heavy cultural influence.
would be handy to see the material on the screen
This speaker wandered on and on for the first eight minutes. Why can’t he come to the point of his topic and go on from there. I don’t think he understands much about the topic of his discussion.
We have given ALL authority through the person of HIS SON Yeshua!
Just wish that person in the background would have kept quiet. It’s distracting.
"John Walton - Origins Today - Genesis Through Ancient Eyes" Is the video you need, guys, for the pictures
The easy way to understand is to see that it is just a story written by people who had no idea of how the earth works. Apparently there are still people like that.
Dr. Walton is showing the value of understanding what was understood by the ancients around the time Genesis was written .
Very clear thinker and communicator, thank you for sharing.
This was very educational. He's very articulate. :-)One tip I have is because I'm very visual seeing the material would keep my attention a little bit more and would help me have a fuller understanding. Besides that I was highly impressed. :)
Really exciting review on interpretation. The conundrum of other contemporaneous inhabitants in the linear story is dealt with in the best hypothesis I’ve ever heard.
I feel you when it comes to learning
who is the guy saying hello in the background.
What is the significance of hand bags in New Zealand's Culture?
Thank you for the succint explanation of why when God Yahweh said that it was not good for a man to be alone - he was not criticising his own creation - God was merely stating the obvious that a man would not function as God intended, for him to procreate and take care of the planet unless God created alongside him a helpmeet - a woman. So much theology is missed unless we are prepared to be humble and listen to the wisdom of others.
What Joe Fleener is not telling us about the early Church Fathers, is that they don't know Hebrew They are not Old Testament Theologians...
Great presentation ...