I read the bestow curse differently, you get only one of the effects, not all four. So either disadvantage on saving throws and ability checks of a chosen ability score; OR disadvantage on attack throws against you; OR rolling a wisdom saving throw as an action; OR extra damage on attacks against them
yes, You get one of the Options, or something you and your DM approve. please pin Aragix comment or update the video somehow to stop misinformation from spreading :3
No spirit guardians? That's gotta be the best upcast spell in the game and it didn't even get a honorable mention alongside the other long lasting damage spells, even tho it lasts more, is way easier to use, and usually hits more enemies at the same time + the slow down and the fact the area of effect is around you makes it a great defense
Special mention for Fog Cloud, a 1st level spell which effectively blinds most things and is a 20 ft radius sphere with the radius increasing by 20 ft per upcast level. This really quickly just becomes unreasonably large and prevents a lot of spells since they require sight.
Major image is best used to make permanent statues and memorials. Nobody is going to think to check them for hidden compartments or entrances, cuz the illusion can be wrapped around the stand of the statue to hide a trap door while also feeling real if you touch it from the front. That's really the best use for most illusions. making a replica of something already there, but with a small difference. Even creatures with truesight will just think you made it to make a memorial of some hero, since the entire portion of the lifelike statue will be illusion
Very surprised Dispel Magic, Conjure Animals, and Fly weren't here, or at least mentioned. I know Dispel Magic is a 'weaker' version of Counter Spell since it requires an action rather than your reaction but it is just as helpful being able to end spells. Conjure Animals doubles the amount of animals even 2 spell levels higher you put into it. Its probably a 'weaker' version of Animate Dead since it has a way shorter duration but can literally flood the field way faster. Fly is just like Invisibility in it's utility.
I’m surprised nobody mentioned Mind Whip. This spell being the “What people think Stunning Strike is” but actually does efficiently, upcasting it just adds more targets if they are close 30 feet each other’s, similar to chain lightning
I would add magic missiles to this list, but only as a concentration breaking tool, not for the damage. Upcasting adds more missiles and reach individual shot provokes 1 concentration save. Add enough missiles and the bbeg is bound to fail at least one check!
Permanently cursing someone might be good for a fight and even if the BBEG manages to flee, but removing it is just a lvl 3 spell slot for Clerics, Paladins, Warlocks and Wizards, 75 Gold, or thereabouts. So 9th level might be too much, but 5th sounds about right.
I was surprised Immovable Object wasn’t on the list. (Maybe they weren’t including Explorer’s Guide to Wildemount spells.) Since upcasting this 2nd level spell at 6th level permanently enchants the target item, you effectively create a permanent magic item with an upcast spell and 25 gp of powdered gold.
3.5 lawful good paladin (me) chumming with lawful evil necromancer (my friend) my character dies, necromancer stuffs my characters body in a bag of holding, I go on vacation, return everyone leveled up but me. However necromancer turns my skeleton into a Holy undead. He took one level of cleric and a little homebrew from our dm to do so. Player is now a monster becomes a holy death knight, + permanent iron bones spell. The black skull warrior.
Heat metal at lvl 9.. for its duratiom can deal 1.6k damage + your weapon damage IF you have heat proof/immune handle material on it. For this you would need a fighter tho
Not if you know how to use it correctly. Step 1: plan for the spell Step 2: cast Animate Dead as a gain/maintain spell until you reach your ideal control limit (I typically use 8) Step 3: give them all the same attack target with the command. Step 4: use 8 different color sets and roll hit and damage die at same time. Step 5: if you have Disadvantage and you miss the first time don't roll the second as it is unneeded extra rolls. I ran a Cleric that has a bone brigade (8 skeletons) and I was faster with my turn than those only running their PC.
An honorable mention is the 2nd level illusion spell Shadow Blade. It upscales at odd levels (3, 5, 7) for an extra 1d8 damage, and the spell lasts one minute with concentration.
Honorable mention to Inflict Wounds. It's crazy good single target damage and often the best one-off damage a cleric can do with a spell slot. Spirit Guardians however is Moonbeam on steroids and you absolutely fucked up by not having it on this list. 🤣 Fog Cloud shuts down most casters and can be upcast to a convenient size. Aid is great to rest cast at a high level to start the day with a ton of extra hit points, and it stacks with anything that gives temporary hit points like Inspiring Leader or a Twilight Cleric's Channel Divinity. (Edit: and it's also a bargain value Mass Cure Wounds to pick up 3 allies, especially with up-casting) Scorching Ray upcasts fairly well, especially when paired with something like Hex, Hunter's Mark, Spirit Shroud, Hexblade's Curse, or other damage additions. Tasha's Mind Whip absolutely shuts down melee enemies, which is about 2/3 of them. Up-casting is about as effective as Hold Person but you don't have to care about creature type, so it's good for that fairly common niche. Fly is good for up-casting on your less mobile party members, so you often don't have to up-cast much. You can solve a lot of combats and puzzles with it. Pretty much all of the Tasha's "Summon X" spells upcast really well too, often performing well above your average concentration spells. For one slot, you can have a friend to take hits, deal damage, and debuff enemies for a whole hour or until they die. Up-casting helps damage and survivability by a fair amount, especially at levels that add more attacks.
I never thought about how good up casting bless is...Jim's magic missile is also a super fun spell to upcast just for the joy of potentially failing haha
There are a lot of spells that I think are better for upcasting than some of these, especially things like Moonbeam, and Bestow Curse, even though 5th level Bestow Curse is excellent if it lands initially to disable one BBEG. Spells I'd like to mention. Spirit Guardians, an extra 1d8 compared to moonbeams 1d10, however bigger area of effect and doesn't take an action to move. You also do have to throw yourself into frontline, but it does fuck with movement. Command and Tasha's Mind Whip, effect more targets with a good 1 turn disable. Command lacks on hit damage but can proc AoO, while Tasha's disables reactions. Aid, Upcast AoA is very good, admittedly, but what about Aid? AoA is only 5 and 5 TEMP for you and you alone. Meanwhile Aid just going from 2nd level of 15 HP (5 on 3 targets) at 3rd level is 30HP, at 4th is 45 HP. That is pretty nutty scaling and it can be restcast or extended spell if you've got a DSS or Clockwork Soul Sorcerer to be cast from the previous day for free max HP, which stacks with temp, meaning it stacks with AoA.
Poor Continual Flame never makes this list but is by far the best upcast. Darkness, including magical darkness, is never a problem again. It's one of the first things a lvl 5 cleric should be doing for their party
That's table dependent imo. There's a lot of DMs that will never use darkness on the player where high level continual flames aren't useful at all. For the small portion that DO use darkness however, you absolutely want that ASAP.
as an Illusion wizard, the amount of use ive gotten out of my permanent Major Image is absolutely ludicrous. having hit level 14, i used it to effective create a submarine that my party used to travel through an underground cursed lake. an upcasted Major Image is great, but when you toss in the Illusion school abilities from wizard, it goes from great to absurdly busted.
The submarine would only last for a minute though, wouldn't it? And then go back to being just an illusion of a submarine. I'm not sure the upcast does anything there but free your concentration.
A few more worth mention. Create Undead, similar to Animate Dead, gives you more bodies, but you could instead get better bodies. Normal cast is 3 ghouls for a 6th level spell slot. 7th level is either 5 ghouls or 2 ghasts/wights, which are much better in a fight. 9th level gives you 6 ghouls, 3 ghasts/wights, or 2 mummies, which are decent, even at that high level. Another good one is Healing Spirit, even after its errata. Normally, it is a duration "aoe" spell that heals a creature that enters it for the first time on a turn for 1d6 and lasts a minute (ignoring constructs and undead), and upcasting it increases the amount healed by an extra d6 per level. Prior to its errata, that meant that out of combat you could heal the party 10d6 per spell level, to a max of 80d6 at 9th. While worse than Mass Heal, it's still a powerful Druid and Ranger only spell. That is unless you have 17 levels as a Life Cleric, where it immediately becomes maximized, healing for 480hp per character! Place that under your tank and they'll never go down, as they'll be healing 48hp every turn unless the enemy forces them out of that space somehow. And even then, the cast can move the space being healed as a bonus action. After the errata, it can only trigger a number of times equal to your casting modifier plus 1, so a 16 in that stat gives you only 4 procs. Still decent, but nowhere near the strength the original had. Similar to Bless, Bane hits more enemies, but since it requires that initial save, it's not as useful. Similar to Counterspell, Dispel Magic has the same thing about upcasting auto-dispels spells of the same level. Some spells even state that they can only be removed by Dispel Magic cast at a specific level or it doesn't work, like Imprisonment requiring a 9th level Dispel Magic. Similar to Hold Person and Banishment, Command can hit multiple targets if upcast, even if it's only one word, though telling them all to "sleep/die" can end a fight before it ever started.
I've found jf your doing a necromancer spell effectively animate dead with a school of necromancy tends to be the best way as its a low level spell which buffs the units you create upcasts well and can gain mastery at level 20 wizard meaning you have an infinitely large army limited only by corpses you can find
Bestow Curse only lets you pick one of the effects, not all four. It's still great to cast at 5th level as it does not require concentration and can be a good debuff on a powerful enemy, but you don't get all four effects, only one.
@@faselfasel2864 he also said that choosing the disadvantage on wisdom saves makes the next downside worse- the one where they lose an action failing a wisdom save. That advice only makes sense when you get more than one option of the curse at the same time, so yes, they’re misunderstanding what the spell does
Lightning arrow actually scales very well gaining 2d8 per level. Being restricted to ranger really holds it back but if you're able to cast it at higher levels it can certainly hit hard
Summon undead . Up cast gives 1 extra attack per 2 levels of spell slot. And 10 hp per spell slot and +1 damage per spell slot. And +1 ac per spell slot. If you're a necromancer and you have a Dm who limits summoned creatures this creates a creature with a 4th level slot from a 9th level necromancer that has 2 attacks, hits on a +10 , does 2d4+11, 1d8+11, or 1d6+11 damage , with a 15 ac and 39 to 49 hp (depending on type and possibly either a wisdom or con save if you took the putrid or ghostly type which if failed could possibly paralize or at least frighten the target.
The invisibility thing is kinda not a good upcast since pass without trace is a thing. I don't think you'd want to use a 5th level spell ever for invisibility
The difference is Pass Without Trace requires you to be stealthy, it doesn't work in an open featureless plain, or in a single hallway that is well lit. The DM can let you hide sure, but RAW you can't if they can logically still see you.. Invisibility doesn't have this problem.
Honorable Mention to Fizban's Ashardalon's Stride (or its UA name Flamestride) for similar reasons to moonbeam, but more specialized Key points: + 20 ft speed + 5ft per upcast level + 1d6 fire damage + 1d6 per upcast level with NO SAVE + Movement does not provoke AoO + bonus action cast time - 3rd level slot, signficantly less upfront damage than a baseline fireball - Friendly Fire, gotta plan out your paths - Concentration - value needs you to stay close - fire damage Fun spell to build around with speed builds.
I am always anxious to watch these kinds of videos. Please keep up the excellent work.… But check your editing on the text, spelling and placement. That being said, it does not take away from the excellent video content.
When playing both my War Domain and Forge Domain cleric I enjoyed upcasting Spirit Guardians to 4th level. While an extra D8 damage doesn't seem like much, thanks to the area of effect as well as duration that it could last it was a nice boost to damage for the use of a 4th level spot. Especially considering their arent many good 4th level spells for clerics.
I love your video format. Answering the optimisers' questions. Would love to see some "best get out of jail free spells" or best spells that only require verbal components.
Catapult benefits a bunch from being up cast. In terms of utility it allows you to move heavier objects and attack with them. It also scales every level up cast for more damage while several damage spells only benefit every other level. But it's not surprising it wouldn't be on the list Catapult is probably one of the most underrated spells in the game. Being able to launch a net at an enemy from super far away do a bunch of damage and restrains them all in one go is a pretty banging tactic. Speed becomes zero. Disadvantage on their attacks and dex saves. Advantage on your attacks towards them. Pretty mean.
I think you're overstating Bestow Curse. Despite the wording, I think the intention is you choose one of the four effects. The upcasting is still incredible though.
Hmm. With bestow curse upcast. That extra might be good when you combine it with invisibility and misty step. Smack a boss with an 8+ hour debuff, get the hell out of there, do a long rest, and then attack them while they are weakened.
I know the spell gets laughed at, Cloud of Daggers upcasts incredibly well. You can't move it like Moonbeam, and it's a smaller area, but Moonbeam can be saved against for half damage, and the save is constitution. There is no hit check or saving throw for Cloud of Daggers. 1d10 extra damage on Moonbeam is an average of 5.5 damage, but that's only if they fail the save. Cloud of Daggers adds 2d4, or an average of 5 extra damage no matter what. The base damage of 2d10 is about 11, but 4d4 is about 10. So it's already almost identical in damage and upcast bonus, except that the damage is pretty much a guarantee. If your barbarian focuses on grappling, they can force enemies into the area each turn. Warlocks can blast enemies into it. It can hold a doorway or other chokepoint really well. And the damage is inevitable. So long as you have ways to bring enemies to the effect rather than the effect to the enemies, it'll easily outperform Moonbeam.
Mass Suggestion scales up better than almost any other spell, and I'm shocked it's not on this list. Check out the duration: 6th level: 1 day 7th level: 10 days 8th level: 30 days 9th level: a year and a day
Shadow blade can get stupid with upcasting, give your fighter a sword that deals 5d8 per hit and you will annihilate anything with advantage in darkeness
The one thing about Moonbeam that wasn't mentioned that can occassionaly be important is the interaction with shapechangers, making them make the save at disadvantage and reverting them to their original form if they fail. Having had one dropped on a stealthed changeling pc of mine and having a party member drop one on a werewolf we were fighting, it can become really scary to fight against as a shapechanger especially if you gain a lot of bonuses from your shifted form. Plus I'm pretty sure it works on polymorphed or wildshaped creatures too so it's a counter to those too while alsp dealing damage. Really good spell, not just for the damage, the damage is just a good upside though.
A werewolf is a shapechanger but a changeling is not. All lycanthropes have the shapechanger tag is brackets just after their creature type... humanoid (human, shapechanger)... but a changeling just has fey for it's creature type so is NOT a shapechanger. Having a feature called Shapechange does not make you a shapechanger.
@@arcanerecovery2567 changeling enemies have the shapechanger trait, plus I do not think you could ever convince your dm that someome playing a changeling is in fact not a shapechanger when that's literally one of the features they have. Especially with how the reversion to true form is tied to being a shapechanger and suffering disadvantage on the saving throw. If the dm you play with or you as the dm rule that changeling pcs aren't affected worse by moonbeam than the other pcs that's valid and more power to you. But by most definitions of RAW they would be affected by moonbeam under shapechanger rules.
Tbh a reasonable alteration to RAW for cases where the shapechanger tag is either not present for reasons such as not having a monster stat block or being instances like wild shape where you shapechange into an otherwise nonshapechanging being, you could say it only has the extra effect on shapechange*d* creatures versus shapechange*r* so it's just a question of "is this person not in their true form by means of shapechanging?" But by RAI I assume that the intention is a mix of both, affecting both shapechanged and shapechangers.
I was expecting Magic Missile to be on the list, since the guaranteed damage from it can sometimes be important when you need a precise and reliable hit.
eh you can often get the same or more damage from just casting a level of the spell slot you were going to cast magic missile from even if they succeed the save.
Top 10 spells that require some creativity - not as directly powerful as a fireball, but potentially far stronger if you know what you’re doing or can get your teammates to help.
Aid is amazing and could be worth it to upcast to 5th level. Extra "real" not temporary hitpoints for 8 hours on 3 party members without concentration.
Geas is also incredibly impractical, relatively speaking. One minute cast time, against a fairly common saving throw. A decently high probability of failure, and thus a decently high probability of wasting such a spell slot. Not to mention, Geas isn't straight up mind control. Sure, it's long term charm, but fear of damage can be overcome and override commands.
@@dreamcream3738 Also true, but I feel like trying to use it on strong opponents is already missing the point. In any situation you WOULD use it, the benefits of upcasting can't be denied.
Bestow curse: just cast synaptic static🤦♂️ Moon beam: con save. Enough said. Hold person: save or suck...just cast spike growth or something similar like web. Major image...yes Invisibility is good but it only works on regular sight. Tremor sense and hearing works against it. But otherwise good. Banishment also save or suck but as you said, charisma save. Armor of agathys is good but mostly good for locks 3rd level spells are better than AoA Counterspell...obviously🤣except if you're a bard (jack of all trades) Bless yes if it is needed. Can make without but it IS a good spell. Animate dead: your DM will hate you. Just look at conjure animals (also, surprised its not here)
Counterspell is the worst to upcast as it doesn't change your dc to prevent the spell. Its a gamble at what spell level your DM is using and, often, a waste of higher level slots that can be used on better control spells.
Nice video but ... FAIL ... you missed the two 5e spells that benefits MOST from upcasting! One such spell you missed is Aid. The Aid spell is not on your top ten list when it ought to be #1 or #2. The other spell you missed, which ought to be #1 or #2 on this list, is Bless. What were you thinking! Explanation: #1 Aid - The Aid spell increases Maximum HP for three allies. Lasts 8 hours. Cast it twice to get your entire party. Stacks with temp HP. Aid is a terrific way to use your second-highest spell slots. Imagine a 9th level party of six OCs. One caster spends two 4th level spell slots at the START of the adventuring day, giving the entire team +15 HP to max. Another PC (or the same PC) gives out +12 Temp HP, perhaps from the Inspiring Leader feat and repeats that every Short rest. Each member of the team gets +27 HP for the entire day. One short rest makes that +54 HP (27x2) per team team member. Team of 6, for 54x6. That's +324 HP to the team at the cost of two 4th level spells and one PC's feat. All done out of combat, so it required no combat actions. Those two 4th level spell slots spent on Aid buy each member of the team of six +15 HP for the entire day. That's +90 HP to allies. Think of it pre-healing before combat. #2 Bless - Bless is a 1st level spell that affects 3 people. Upcast Bless to 3rd level and affects 5 people. That's a terrific progression. Bless on five allies (often the entire team) is more beneficial than 3rd level Haste on one ally. Haste is pretty good. Bless scales very well, but not quite as well as Aid. Bless should be #2 on this list.
Comment section TL;DR: People saying they're surprised 'X' spell didn't make it on the list because upcasting it made a difference once in their campaign.
why would he? all the changes i can tell won’t affect the channnle since most of what he dose is go through material that alredy exists as wizards of the coast content
The only thing WotC/Hasbro can control is actual published D&D game content using their "proper noun" content (you don't have to advertise your content as D&D XE compatible, and you can't copyright game rules/mechanics; WotC/Hasbro only own their lore/story content). Hirumarex and all his -Logs channels are fair use transformative content (he's talking about how to improve the way you play games, not actual game content).
I read the bestow curse differently, you get only one of the effects, not all four. So either disadvantage on saving throws and ability checks of a chosen ability score; OR disadvantage on attack throws against you; OR rolling a wisdom saving throw as an action; OR extra damage on attacks against them
That is how the spell actually works
mhm exactly, im pretty sure dndlogs got this one wrong
yes, You get one of the Options, or something you and your DM approve. please pin Aragix comment or update the video somehow to stop misinformation from spreading :3
I was about to say the same thing.
Though when you are upcasting it to make it permanent you can stack the effects together so maybe that is what they meant?
No spirit guardians? That's gotta be the best upcast spell in the game and it didn't even get a honorable mention alongside the other long lasting damage spells, even tho it lasts more, is way easier to use, and usually hits more enemies at the same time + the slow down and the fact the area of effect is around you makes it a great defense
RT, max level spirit guardians got me sooo much value in my recent campaigns
@@pokemonomekop126 1d8 for every enemy for every turn for 600 turns, nothing else upcasts this good!
I think this might be due to some kind of clause where if a spell is a "no duh" kind for a list,it won't be used. Idk though
Special mention for Fog Cloud, a 1st level spell which effectively blinds most things and is a 20 ft radius sphere with the radius increasing by 20 ft per upcast level. This really quickly just becomes unreasonably large and prevents a lot of spells since they require sight.
Major image is best used to make permanent statues and memorials. Nobody is going to think to check them for hidden compartments or entrances, cuz the illusion can be wrapped around the stand of the statue to hide a trap door while also feeling real if you touch it from the front. That's really the best use for most illusions. making a replica of something already there, but with a small difference. Even creatures with truesight will just think you made it to make a memorial of some hero, since the entire portion of the lifelike statue will be illusion
Very surprised Dispel Magic, Conjure Animals, and Fly weren't here, or at least mentioned. I know Dispel Magic is a 'weaker' version of Counter Spell since it requires an action rather than your reaction but it is just as helpful being able to end spells. Conjure Animals doubles the amount of animals even 2 spell levels higher you put into it. Its probably a 'weaker' version of Animate Dead since it has a way shorter duration but can literally flood the field way faster. Fly is just like Invisibility in it's utility.
I’m surprised nobody mentioned Mind Whip.
This spell being the “What people think Stunning Strike is” but actually does efficiently, upcasting it just adds more targets if they are close 30 feet each other’s, similar to chain lightning
Yep. I was going to mention Mind Whip.
I would add magic missiles to this list, but only as a concentration breaking tool, not for the damage. Upcasting adds more missiles and reach individual shot provokes 1 concentration save. Add enough missiles and the bbeg is bound to fail at least one check!
Permanently cursing someone might be good for a fight and even if the BBEG manages to flee, but removing it is just a lvl 3 spell slot for Clerics, Paladins, Warlocks and Wizards, 75 Gold, or thereabouts. So 9th level might be too much, but 5th sounds about right.
I was surprised Immovable Object wasn’t on the list. (Maybe they weren’t including Explorer’s Guide to Wildemount spells.) Since upcasting this 2nd level spell at 6th level permanently enchants the target item, you effectively create a permanent magic item with an upcast spell and 25 gp of powdered gold.
With a ton of downtime and gold I once made a floating base in the sky with many casts of the spell and a ton of small iron chains.
Animate dead as an upcast. Just because you want for combat to last forever.
Don't forget: Necromancers get hilarious buffs to the damage to undead, too!
3.5 lawful good paladin (me) chumming with lawful evil necromancer (my friend) my character dies, necromancer stuffs my characters body in a bag of holding, I go on vacation, return everyone leveled up but me. However necromancer turns my skeleton into a Holy undead. He took one level of cleric and a little homebrew from our dm to do so. Player is now a monster becomes a holy death knight, + permanent iron bones spell. The black skull warrior.
Heat metal at lvl 9.. for its duratiom can deal 1.6k damage + your weapon damage IF you have heat proof/immune handle material on it.
For this you would need a fighter tho
Not if you know how to use it correctly.
Step 1: plan for the spell
Step 2: cast Animate Dead as a gain/maintain spell until you reach your ideal control limit (I typically use 8)
Step 3: give them all the same attack target with the command.
Step 4: use 8 different color sets and roll hit and damage die at same time.
Step 5: if you have Disadvantage and you miss the first time don't roll the second as it is unneeded extra rolls.
I ran a Cleric that has a bone brigade (8 skeletons) and I was faster with my turn than those only running their PC.
An honorable mention is the 2nd level illusion spell Shadow Blade. It upscales at odd levels (3, 5, 7) for an extra 1d8 damage, and the spell lasts one minute with concentration.
Honorable mention to Inflict Wounds. It's crazy good single target damage and often the best one-off damage a cleric can do with a spell slot.
Spirit Guardians however is Moonbeam on steroids and you absolutely fucked up by not having it on this list. 🤣
Fog Cloud shuts down most casters and can be upcast to a convenient size.
Aid is great to rest cast at a high level to start the day with a ton of extra hit points, and it stacks with anything that gives temporary hit points like Inspiring Leader or a Twilight Cleric's Channel Divinity. (Edit: and it's also a bargain value Mass Cure Wounds to pick up 3 allies, especially with up-casting)
Scorching Ray upcasts fairly well, especially when paired with something like Hex, Hunter's Mark, Spirit Shroud, Hexblade's Curse, or other damage additions.
Tasha's Mind Whip absolutely shuts down melee enemies, which is about 2/3 of them. Up-casting is about as effective as Hold Person but you don't have to care about creature type, so it's good for that fairly common niche.
Fly is good for up-casting on your less mobile party members, so you often don't have to up-cast much. You can solve a lot of combats and puzzles with it.
Pretty much all of the Tasha's "Summon X" spells upcast really well too, often performing well above your average concentration spells. For one slot, you can have a friend to take hits, deal damage, and debuff enemies for a whole hour or until they die. Up-casting helps damage and survivability by a fair amount, especially at levels that add more attacks.
I never thought about how good up casting bless is...Jim's magic missile is also a super fun spell to upcast just for the joy of potentially failing haha
Erupting earth, aid, false life, tasha Mind whip, all summons, and so many others
There are a lot of spells that I think are better for upcasting than some of these, especially things like Moonbeam, and Bestow Curse, even though 5th level Bestow Curse is excellent if it lands initially to disable one BBEG.
Spells I'd like to mention. Spirit Guardians, an extra 1d8 compared to moonbeams 1d10, however bigger area of effect and doesn't take an action to move. You also do have to throw yourself into frontline, but it does fuck with movement.
Command and Tasha's Mind Whip, effect more targets with a good 1 turn disable. Command lacks on hit damage but can proc AoO, while Tasha's disables reactions.
Aid, Upcast AoA is very good, admittedly, but what about Aid? AoA is only 5 and 5 TEMP for you and you alone. Meanwhile Aid just going from 2nd level of 15 HP (5 on 3 targets) at 3rd level is 30HP, at 4th is 45 HP. That is pretty nutty scaling and it can be restcast or extended spell if you've got a DSS or Clockwork Soul Sorcerer to be cast from the previous day for free max HP, which stacks with temp, meaning it stacks with AoA.
Shadow Blade upcast to 3rd LVL is a must!
“Doubles”. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Inconceivable!!
I think Shadow Blade deserves an honourable mention if you have Extra Attack(Swords Bard, Hexblade, EK, Bladesinger)
My man here is so creative. Who ever thinks of this topics? Keep it up!
i suggested it over a year ago.
Poor Continual Flame never makes this list but is by far the best upcast. Darkness, including magical darkness, is never a problem again. It's one of the first things a lvl 5 cleric should be doing for their party
That's table dependent imo. There's a lot of DMs that will never use darkness on the player where high level continual flames aren't useful at all. For the small portion that DO use darkness however, you absolutely want that ASAP.
Honorable mention
Upcasting Fireball as a Order of Scribes Wizard, why?
*I cast Fist*
Force damage becomes Megidoloan.
The OoSW at my table cast Stormsphere as psychic damage to keep from destroying the room they were in.
GREAT video! I've built characters around Armor of Agathys. Cannot get enough of it. Tons of fun!
as an Illusion wizard, the amount of use ive gotten out of my permanent Major Image is absolutely ludicrous. having hit level 14, i used it to effective create a submarine that my party used to travel through an underground cursed lake. an upcasted Major Image is great, but when you toss in the Illusion school abilities from wizard, it goes from great to absurdly busted.
The submarine would only last for a minute though, wouldn't it? And then go back to being just an illusion of a submarine. I'm not sure the upcast does anything there but free your concentration.
@@aquain1 we decided that i could just instantly refresh the effect every minute, so the water didnt have enough time to collapse in on the party
A few more worth mention. Create Undead, similar to Animate Dead, gives you more bodies, but you could instead get better bodies. Normal cast is 3 ghouls for a 6th level spell slot. 7th level is either 5 ghouls or 2 ghasts/wights, which are much better in a fight. 9th level gives you 6 ghouls, 3 ghasts/wights, or 2 mummies, which are decent, even at that high level.
Another good one is Healing Spirit, even after its errata. Normally, it is a duration "aoe" spell that heals a creature that enters it for the first time on a turn for 1d6 and lasts a minute (ignoring constructs and undead), and upcasting it increases the amount healed by an extra d6 per level. Prior to its errata, that meant that out of combat you could heal the party 10d6 per spell level, to a max of 80d6 at 9th. While worse than Mass Heal, it's still a powerful Druid and Ranger only spell. That is unless you have 17 levels as a Life Cleric, where it immediately becomes maximized, healing for 480hp per character! Place that under your tank and they'll never go down, as they'll be healing 48hp every turn unless the enemy forces them out of that space somehow. And even then, the cast can move the space being healed as a bonus action. After the errata, it can only trigger a number of times equal to your casting modifier plus 1, so a 16 in that stat gives you only 4 procs. Still decent, but nowhere near the strength the original had.
Similar to Bless, Bane hits more enemies, but since it requires that initial save, it's not as useful. Similar to Counterspell, Dispel Magic has the same thing about upcasting auto-dispels spells of the same level. Some spells even state that they can only be removed by Dispel Magic cast at a specific level or it doesn't work, like Imprisonment requiring a 9th level Dispel Magic. Similar to Hold Person and Banishment, Command can hit multiple targets if upcast, even if it's only one word, though telling them all to "sleep/die" can end a fight before it ever started.
I've found jf your doing a necromancer spell effectively animate dead with a school of necromancy tends to be the best way as its a low level spell which buffs the units you create upcasts well and can gain mastery at level 20 wizard meaning you have an infinitely large army limited only by corpses you can find
Bestow Curse only lets you pick one of the effects, not all four. It's still great to cast at 5th level as it does not require concentration and can be a good debuff on a powerful enemy, but you don't get all four effects, only one.
He never said otherwise. He even specifically talked about the wisdom curse option.
@@faselfasel2864 he also said that choosing the disadvantage on wisdom saves makes the next downside worse- the one where they lose an action failing a wisdom save. That advice only makes sense when you get more than one option of the curse at the same time, so yes, they’re misunderstanding what the spell does
Lightning arrow actually scales very well gaining 2d8 per level. Being restricted to ranger really holds it back but if you're able to cast it at higher levels it can certainly hit hard
This is a hard list to make a top 10. Aid, Spirit Guardians and Conjure Animals also upcast very well.
Sprit guardians?
Summon undead . Up cast gives 1 extra attack per 2 levels of spell slot. And 10 hp per spell slot and +1 damage per spell slot. And +1 ac per spell slot. If you're a necromancer and you have a Dm who limits summoned creatures this creates a creature with a 4th level slot from a 9th level necromancer that has 2 attacks, hits on a +10 , does 2d4+11, 1d8+11, or 1d6+11 damage , with a 15 ac and 39 to 49 hp (depending on type and possibly either a wisdom or con save if you took the putrid or ghostly type which if failed could possibly paralize or at least frighten the target.
The invisibility thing is kinda not a good upcast since pass without trace is a thing. I don't think you'd want to use a 5th level spell ever for invisibility
With invisibility you don't need to stay close together. Though I suppose fly or spider climb might be more impactful with less competition.
The difference is Pass Without Trace requires you to be stealthy, it doesn't work in an open featureless plain, or in a single hallway that is well lit.
The DM can let you hide sure, but RAW you can't if they can logically still see you..
Invisibility doesn't have this problem.
Honorable Mention to Fizban's Ashardalon's Stride (or its UA name Flamestride) for similar reasons to moonbeam, but more specialized
Key points:
+ 20 ft speed + 5ft per upcast level
+ 1d6 fire damage + 1d6 per upcast level with NO SAVE
+ Movement does not provoke AoO
+ bonus action cast time
- 3rd level slot, signficantly less upfront damage than a baseline fireball
- Friendly Fire, gotta plan out your paths
- Concentration
- value needs you to stay close
- fire damage
Fun spell to build around with speed builds.
I am always anxious to watch these kinds of videos. Please keep up the excellent work.… But check your editing on the text, spelling and placement.
That being said, it does not take away from the excellent video content.
When playing both my War Domain and Forge Domain cleric I enjoyed upcasting Spirit Guardians to 4th level. While an extra D8 damage doesn't seem like much, thanks to the area of effect as well as duration that it could last it was a nice boost to damage for the use of a 4th level spot. Especially considering their arent many good 4th level spells for clerics.
Shadowblade for a melee caster is really nice
I think shadow blade is a great single slot increase going for 2d8 damage at 2nd to 3d8 at third on a character with extra attack it gets burial
I love your video format.
Answering the optimisers' questions.
Would love to see some "best get out of jail free spells" or best spells that only require verbal components.
12:47 and as a sorlock or bard stealing this having it upcast to a lv 9 spell ( in theory ) would give you extra 45 hp.
Awesome video. I really enjoyed the listen. Thank you for your efforts, I think it's about time I got serious into DND
Tasha's Mind Whip is not on the list, suspicious
I made a sorcerer entirely based on the dragon breath spell upcasting, very fun !
Catapult benefits a bunch from being up cast. In terms of utility it allows you to move heavier objects and attack with them. It also scales every level up cast for more damage while several damage spells only benefit every other level. But it's not surprising it wouldn't be on the list Catapult is probably one of the most underrated spells in the game. Being able to launch a net at an enemy from super far away do a bunch of damage and restrains them all in one go is a pretty banging tactic. Speed becomes zero. Disadvantage on their attacks and dex saves. Advantage on your attacks towards them. Pretty mean.
I think you're overstating Bestow Curse. Despite the wording, I think the intention is you choose one of the four effects. The upcasting is still incredible though.
Hmm. With bestow curse upcast. That extra might be good when you combine it with invisibility and misty step. Smack a boss with an 8+ hour debuff, get the hell out of there, do a long rest, and then attack them while they are weakened.
I know the spell gets laughed at, Cloud of Daggers upcasts incredibly well.
You can't move it like Moonbeam, and it's a smaller area, but Moonbeam can be saved against for half damage, and the save is constitution. There is no hit check or saving throw for Cloud of Daggers. 1d10 extra damage on Moonbeam is an average of 5.5 damage, but that's only if they fail the save. Cloud of Daggers adds 2d4, or an average of 5 extra damage no matter what. The base damage of 2d10 is about 11, but 4d4 is about 10. So it's already almost identical in damage and upcast bonus, except that the damage is pretty much a guarantee.
If your barbarian focuses on grappling, they can force enemies into the area each turn. Warlocks can blast enemies into it. It can hold a doorway or other chokepoint really well. And the damage is inevitable. So long as you have ways to bring enemies to the effect rather than the effect to the enemies, it'll easily outperform Moonbeam.
Mind Whip, Banishment, and Psychic Lance are also excellent picks
I never knew duellogs duellogs plays dnd lmao love it buddy
A spell is not "Upcasted" the -ed is not needed. Simply say "a spell is upcast".
Mass Suggestion scales up better than almost any other spell, and I'm shocked it's not on this list. Check out the duration:
6th level: 1 day
7th level: 10 days
8th level: 30 days
9th level: a year and a day
One possibility is using bestow curse in making cursed weapons/magic items, depending on DM approval.
Shadow blade can get stupid with upcasting, give your fighter a sword that deals 5d8 per hit and you will annihilate anything with advantage in darkeness
Top 10 spells with weak or no benefit from upcasting.
Noticed the artwork in the thumbnail is from YUGIOH, armor ninjitsu art of freezing
The one thing about Moonbeam that wasn't mentioned that can occassionaly be important is the interaction with shapechangers, making them make the save at disadvantage and reverting them to their original form if they fail. Having had one dropped on a stealthed changeling pc of mine and having a party member drop one on a werewolf we were fighting, it can become really scary to fight against as a shapechanger especially if you gain a lot of bonuses from your shifted form. Plus I'm pretty sure it works on polymorphed or wildshaped creatures too so it's a counter to those too while alsp dealing damage. Really good spell, not just for the damage, the damage is just a good upside though.
A werewolf is a shapechanger but a changeling is not. All lycanthropes have the shapechanger tag is brackets just after their creature type... humanoid (human, shapechanger)... but a changeling just has fey for it's creature type so is NOT a shapechanger. Having a feature called Shapechange does not make you a shapechanger.
@@arcanerecovery2567 changeling enemies have the shapechanger trait, plus I do not think you could ever convince your dm that someome playing a changeling is in fact not a shapechanger when that's literally one of the features they have. Especially with how the reversion to true form is tied to being a shapechanger and suffering disadvantage on the saving throw. If the dm you play with or you as the dm rule that changeling pcs aren't affected worse by moonbeam than the other pcs that's valid and more power to you. But by most definitions of RAW they would be affected by moonbeam under shapechanger rules.
Tbh a reasonable alteration to RAW for cases where the shapechanger tag is either not present for reasons such as not having a monster stat block or being instances like wild shape where you shapechange into an otherwise nonshapechanging being, you could say it only has the extra effect on shapechange*d* creatures versus shapechange*r* so it's just a question of "is this person not in their true form by means of shapechanging?" But by RAI I assume that the intention is a mix of both, affecting both shapechanged and shapechangers.
I was expecting Magic Missile to be on the list, since the guaranteed damage from it can sometimes be important when you need a precise and reliable hit.
eh you can often get the same or more damage from just casting a level of the spell slot you were going to cast magic missile from even if they succeed the save.
Major Image a Dragon's Horde sitting on a small island in the middle of a swamp
Top 10 spells that require some creativity - not as directly powerful as a fireball, but potentially far stronger if you know what you’re doing or can get your teammates to help.
Aid is amazing and could be worth it to upcast to 5th level. Extra "real" not temporary hitpoints for 8 hours on 3 party members without concentration.
Very useful video for warlocks
Yayyy, I've missed you :D
No Conjure Animals or Spirit Guardians? I feel like those should be on this list...
Why does bestow curse not valid for warlock
at 18:47 the new text slides underneath the old text, any way to fix that?
No Aid?
Mass healing word from 3rd to 4th doubles potency
Top 10 AOE spells?
Holder person but instead Hold Monster with Pisonic Sorceror is very good.
Me currently being warlock seeing this video in my feed 👀
You have Bestow Curse all wrong, it lets you pick only one of those effects...
Aid
+1 target per level isn't doubling after two
Does Armor of Agathys only count temp hp from the spell or does it count other sources?
It only counts the thp granted by the spell
How is aid not on this list
I was hoping Geas would at least get an honorable mention. It's pretty high level already though so upcasting it isn't easy.
Geas is also incredibly impractical, relatively speaking. One minute cast time, against a fairly common saving throw.
A decently high probability of failure, and thus a decently high probability of wasting such a spell slot.
Not to mention, Geas isn't straight up mind control. Sure, it's long term charm, but fear of damage can be overcome and override commands.
@@dreamcream3738 Also true, but I feel like trying to use it on strong opponents is already missing the point. In any situation you WOULD use it, the benefits of upcasting can't be denied.
@@Fungo4 true. But you need to be in a game where the DM doesn't just randomly make every NPC an adventurer for the sake of avoiding power fantasies.
Bestow curse: just cast synaptic static🤦♂️
Moon beam: con save. Enough said.
Hold person: save or suck...just cast spike growth or something similar like web.
Major image...yes
Invisibility is good but it only works on regular sight. Tremor sense and hearing works against it. But otherwise good.
Banishment also save or suck but as you said, charisma save.
Armor of agathys is good but mostly good for locks 3rd level spells are better than AoA
Counterspell...obviously🤣except if you're a bard (jack of all trades)
Bless yes if it is needed. Can make without but it IS a good spell.
Animate dead: your DM will hate you. Just look at conjure animals (also, surprised its not here)
What about Fly??
I'd include Aid in this
i like magic missiles
Sorry upcasting Moombeam giving another 5.5 HP for the upcast is not worth it. Damage is never worth an upcast for any spell.
I feel like Aid should be in there
where is 83 coming from? at 9th level youd get 13 zombies/skeletons wouldnt you?
Using a bunch of your spell slots on the one spell
Upcasting should have diminishing returns, but 5E the returns are god aweful 90% of the time, expecially already weak ones with even worse scaling
Spiritual weapon?
Counterspell is the worst to upcast as it doesn't change your dc to prevent the spell. Its a gamble at what spell level your DM is using and, often, a waste of higher level slots that can be used on better control spells.
Nice video but ... FAIL ... you missed the two 5e spells that benefits MOST from upcasting! One such spell you missed is Aid. The Aid spell is not on your top ten list when it ought to be #1 or #2. The other spell you missed, which ought to be #1 or #2 on this list, is Bless. What were you thinking!
Explanation:
#1 Aid - The Aid spell increases Maximum HP for three allies. Lasts 8 hours. Cast it twice to get your entire party. Stacks with temp HP. Aid is a terrific way to use your second-highest spell slots. Imagine a 9th level party of six OCs. One caster spends two 4th level spell slots at the START of the adventuring day, giving the entire team +15 HP to max. Another PC (or the same PC) gives out +12 Temp HP, perhaps from the Inspiring Leader feat and repeats that every Short rest. Each member of the team gets +27 HP for the entire day. One short rest makes that +54 HP (27x2) per team team member. Team of 6, for 54x6. That's +324 HP to the team at the cost of two 4th level spells and one PC's feat. All done out of combat, so it required no combat actions. Those two 4th level spell slots spent on Aid buy each member of the team of six +15 HP for the entire day. That's +90 HP to allies. Think of it pre-healing before combat.
#2 Bless - Bless is a 1st level spell that affects 3 people. Upcast Bless to 3rd level and affects 5 people. That's a terrific progression. Bless on five allies (often the entire team) is more beneficial than 3rd level Haste on one ally. Haste is pretty good. Bless scales very well, but not quite as well as Aid. Bless should be #2 on this list.
Id say shatter
my man don't know about aid
Comment section TL;DR: People saying they're surprised 'X' spell didn't make it on the list because upcasting it made a difference once in their campaign.
Thier
So are you changing the channel? You know, cuz of what Wizards has been doing...
why would he?
all the changes i can tell won’t affect the channnle since most of what he dose is go through material that alredy exists as wizards of the coast content
The only thing WotC/Hasbro can control is actual published D&D game content using their "proper noun" content (you don't have to advertise your content as D&D XE compatible, and you can't copyright game rules/mechanics; WotC/Hasbro only own their lore/story content). Hirumarex and all his -Logs channels are fair use transformative content (he's talking about how to improve the way you play games, not actual game content).
First
I'm shocked spirit guardians didn't get a mention
Better start researching them Pathfinder spells, before views go below 1K
Hi I'm from wizards of the coast...u now owe us 100 $ I will send u the email for your payment