TNG Data: My scan of the room indicates repeated occasions of multiple individuals sitting on the couch. Picard: Can you isolate one of those occasions? Data: I can feed the data into the ship's computer and allow it to extrapolate scenarios, but it will take some time. More recent occurrences would naturally further obfuscate past ones. Picard I'll move this device throughout the room to capture the one moment in time that is relevant to the plot.
TNG: Access the main computer to find out who was in this room that day. Then let's bring them in for questioning. And then while people are being questioned maybe Geordi finds out that on that day someone a deck above that room was recording a personal log. If he can enhance the recording then he might be able to listen to what was said in the room that day. But for privacy reasons the owner of the recording doesn't want anyone to hear it, not even in confidence. Geordi could simply pull rank and order the person to release the recording but he'd rather find another way. This could easily take up half the episode.
It's an old term used in engineering for an ideal material for a project, that doesn't exist, but which would solve all your problems. But i guess that was too beyond smarmy nerds looking for things to complain about. (Star Trek Picard sucks)
@@Nukle0n that, and also a "we have this material but we don't know what to do with it yet". carbon fibre was known as unobtanium for just a short while after its invention
They just copy the ships a bunch of times and stick them in the background so they don't need to move. Very cheap from an animation and rendering perspective. Also the warp jump is just the ship suddenly moving in a straight line. Also pretty easy, although Trek has been using that since the OT movies.
@whyemceeay The USS Copy and Paste was the first ship I served on after graduating from Starfleet Academy. Those were strange times the 2390s. Luckily they were phased out by 2440.
One of my favourite aspects about the smooth, clean appearance of the TOS Enterprise was that even the aesthetic reflected a purpose: almost all machinery and equipment had to be accessible from the _inside_ of the ship (because you're in space, far from drydock), therefore there were a minimum of projections and other surface features.
They didn't think of that when designing the ships in TOS though. They just wanted a slick "Space Age" look to them and a simpler model was cheaper and quicker to build. Otherwise a starship hull might as well just be a perfect sphere.
@@jamestheotherone742 True. However, in addition to that, they were making TOS for the small screen and lots of details wouldn't be seen on the low resolution screens of the time.
@@jamestheotherone742 Matt Jefferies is on record talking about how the smooth design was decided on before physical modeling even got started. He's also stated that he had to argue and fight to prevent them from _adding_ more surface features, which doesn't fit with your assertion.
It is kind of ironic that TNG effectively introduced magic into the universe (in the form of Q) in such a way that I never felt they were insulting my intelligence. Picard... "Here's a magic wand!"
I think it's because Q feels more like he operates on the concept of technology so advanced it looks like magic. Nothing Q did in the first episode was impossible since it all could have been performed by an advanced ship with an advanced forcefield device and an advanced teleporter+holodeck.
@@GeorgeMonet It also helps that Q and his kind are stated to be interdimensional beings that are unfathomably more complex and advanced than most species in Star Trek. They might not see it as impressive, but to us they seem like gods because of the huge gap in development. They operate on a level that humans couldn’t even begin to understand, so there’s no way in hell we’d have those powers (unless they give them to us like with Riker).
Q lived his own life, had his own personality and goals. He wasn't a tool in kurtzman's characters' hands. That's why this kind of magic was acceptable
There were psi beings and magicish types in TOS as well tho.. You always get some science-fantasy creeping in once you have dozens of writers all doing the same cinematic universe, most writers aren't sci-fi writers...
@@qwave1322 "So an elasticated undergarment, that belongs to the sister of one of his parents, is a violation of his frame of reference for realism in science fiction. Intriguing!"
Imagine the scene where they scanned the room was in TNG. It would be a mystery that took the whole episode to solve. The crew would have to use their collective knowledge and science to figure out what happened. Now, in Picard, they use magic to resolve complex issues within seconds. It's bad writing.
I submit that we don't have to imagine that -- there was an episode called "Identity Crisis" (4x18), and it was a fantastic episode. The plot centered around the fact that Geordi LaForge had to use the holodeck to extrapolate an away-team's actions, in order to deduce that a new species had infected him with spores. And it *did* take the whole episode.
I think it's more that you're witnessing bad writing within the context of a completely different type of show. TNG was a little soap opera, the episodes were made back when TV was king and the important thing to do was to keep pumping out more of what people liked. TNG could afford an episode like that but this show couldn't. This is not a defense of the show as I said I agree it's bad writing, but this issue had to be resolved as quick as it was for the sake of the flow. Could it have been done better? Could it have been written better? Sure, but it cannot be compared directly to how TNG would do it because that's unfair.
After attaining a critical point of mass appeal all sci-fi franchises start collapsing into themselves like dying stars and becoming black holes from where a complex idea can't escape the event horizon of corporate mandated marketing.
Stargate held on for a remarkably long time before succumbing as well. Now that the Expanse is finished for the moment all my hopes and dreams lie on the Babylon 5 reboot.
@@Karackal its a reboot thats already the problem.. its start trek.. you can literally come up with a million different story ideas.. when you can travel the galaxy.. but no lets do something that has been done(probably better) before AGAIN... no originality nothing..
Not just sci-fi either. Beloved children’s cartoons are brought back decades later & dragged down the same way w/ a new, “revamped” look & “modern humor” that while trying to evoke nostalgia just completely misses the point & ruins the legacy permenantly..
I think the writers for Picard watched a few trailers for other Trek shows, skimmed thru a few old scripts and finally said, “Alright, guys. I think we have a good understanding of what StarGate is all about.
I think I disagree. They really show that they've done their homework. They just value some aspects of Trek more than others, and many fans have a different order of preference.
Giby86 I think the news shows are written by people who got degrees in gender studies and have no fucking idea about how diverse Star Trek was and instead just ram as much social justice bullshit into the new shows as possible hoping that making it part of the Trek franchises will get them viewers
plausibility within the own universe, when you extend the borders of this world you must have a good explanation. therefore harry potter does not beam away with a transporter and skywalker does not drive an DeLorean. why did they even bother to design this piece in the Picard series, they could have just given him a magic stick of wood
Babylon 5 did magical item very well, by not using them without a reason, not using them too much and keeping them mysterious. Like the apocalypse box captain Gideon has in Crusade.
The future for me with the Human race is exactly how this Picard shows it in this new enlightened series 'Fifth Element'! Horrible film but a good film! Picard is just awful!
@@ronaldhudson169 That's a really vague idea though, that wouldn't work even if it were technically possible. The human mind does not just immediately and clearly imagine one specific thing (including all the exact details of whatever it may be). If some tech like that were actually to be used, you'd end up with some onject that might look a lot like whatever it is you wanted but it wouldn't work right. Also, all kinds of random other things would be replicated with it because the human mind is, in reality, all over the place at any given moment. You also would not be imagining all the astonishingly specific ins and outs of whatever tech you wanted replicating...a replicator would require exceedingly specific programming to be able to replicate anything, not just some bozos vague imaginings. Therefore, you might as well just use a replicator.
Yeah, I really don't like how "technology" in Picard works more like magical items from a Harry Potter movie. Star Trek has always, pre-Kurtzman, tried its best to base the technology in it on real science and real theoretical science to make it as realistic and believable as possible. Not only wat that device where you can use your imagination to do anything really dumb, that device where they could scan particles in a room and instantly re-play a conversation that took place there was really dumb.. Especially, how it just instantly played the conversation that they wanted to hear. Now, let's overlook the dumbness of scanning a room for particles and using them to replay a 3D video for a second. Even if we overlooked that, why would we get the exact footage that we are looking for right away? Why not get the girl cooking food in her kitchen or having sex with the guy on her couch or snoring in her sleep in the middle of the night or something? In TNG, they'd at least skip around to see a few other recordings when searching someone's personal logs before they died, not jump right to the video they are looking for right away, which was more realistic.
The whole “pull a recording out of thin air” thing reminded me of something from Star Wars. I think it might be Legends now, but there was a Force ability where you could also see and hear memories of things that happened at a place. Both examples sound like magic, the difference being that in Star Wars it’s SUPPOSED to be magic. And even then, magic with fairly clear rules and boundaries.
I wouldn't say that it's based on real science, but every technology in the show is consistent with every other technology, a magical imagination device seems very inconsistent.
I love Startrek, but lets be honest; they never really tried to keep their theoretical science within realistic boundaries. Nevermind warpdrive, they frequently encounter psychic aliens or godlike aliens, ridiculously implausible forms of life like 2-dimesional creatures, crystalline entities, evil goop etc. Even the physiology and cultures of even the common alien species doesn't make sense, and the series does a really poor job of writing the consequences of the technologies these space-faring civilizations have access to outside any episodes dedicated to exploring that. But what old startrek does beautifully that newtrek fails to do is enough care and world building to make this stuff feel believable, even if it falls apart when you think about it too hard. TNG is incredible at setting up a problem or a mystery, explaining why the technology they have can't instantly solve it, and then following the logic as the characters unravel the mystery and develop new tools, or new ways of using established technology to solve a problem, or solve it in a way which relies on things the characters (and the audience) learned during the episode, and than plastering over the cracks with technobable. That is why startrek feels like capital S, hard Science fiction- because it's episode format reflects the scientific method of problem solving. And that's something newtrek really doesn't understand. They subscribe to a writing school where they have a plot and just want to push it forward. Why even spend a token amount of time explaining why something works? Just make it work and shove it through. That's why it feels dumb, because it treats the audience as incredulous fools. Old trek will take take your suspension of disbelief gently, buy it flowers, a big dinner, and massage it before asks you to accept things. New trek will just violate your suspension of disbelief on the spot and spit on it. Its pretty clear which set of writers cares more about their audience.
@@dibbidydoo4318 I was going to mention this. Like let's be honest, we *can't* go faster than the speed of light. But you can break that rule and still have a good story. But if your ship has a certain speed but magically can break it when the plot requires it, that's bad storytelling.
Why do STP’s phasers sound so lame? It’s like a kids laser blaster toy you’d pick up form the pound shop. No energy behind the sound. If they want rapid fire *cough* Star Wars *cough* the Deviant’s pulsed phasers sounded bad ass! Phasers were always a tool as much as a weapon. It’s literally “pew pew.” Shite.
I hated energy weapons in most sci-fi shows and movies. That said, I loved that distinct "spool up and discharge" sound of the phasers. They sounded like they consumed energy from the ship's power plant and it was easy to imagine the heat build up on the phaser array as well as the cumulative damage they caused.
Since Star Trek 2009 I absolutely hated the "pew" "pew" phasers. You are right. They sound weak, they lack the utility of a beam phaser, and there is no sense whatsoever that the energy of the ship is behind it. They might as well be bullets. They are also fired far too often. With beam phasers, or even pulse phasers or pulse disruptors, we get the sense that a starship can only fire them so long before exhausting the built up energy reserves needed to fire them. This adds to the sense of just how powerful they are. The pew pew phasers are just a light show. They are sprayed all over the screen completely without consequence.
Duds that's so funny. That's a quote from George Lucas in the behind the scenes documentary. That's pretty funny of you. You should start a channel which reviews movies, I think that phrase will catch on! xD xD
the whole dense thing put me right off watching any of the Michael Bay Transformers movies, those robots are constantly shifting around my eyes couldn't take it.
DS9 didn't have the budget that Picard show has yet managed much better battles with multiple ships without making it look boring and bland. I really don't get why they didn't have any older ships amongst them. Some Defiant, Galaxy, Intrepid and Prometheus class ships would have fit perfectly and they've got the CGI assets so could have easily re-produced them. It's obvious that Picard show is nothing more than a greedy man's idea of squeezing money out of what was once a great franchise. They have triple the budget of any Star Trek show ever made with less episodes per season so there's just no excuse for them being that lazy. Picard show destroyed Star Trek for me, I cannot watch TNG without thinking that Picard is just full of crap. He's a weak man pretending to be strong in front of his crew. No wonder he was so private and kept himself to himself. He didn't want anyone to find out he was weak. Even Dr Crusher he kept at distance. Vash was the perfect match for Picard. She understood he was full of crap just like her.
Watch Tng “imagining” stp is a big Q episode showing Picard another bad alternative life like he did in tapestry. Then imagine Picard begging to go back to the moment after Nemesis to set history straight.
Licensing, they operate under the same Bad Robot type license from the JJ Movies, every thing from real Star Trek they want to use they have to pay a license fee for, and everything they create on their own they can actually use for merchandising. Now ask yourself why the 1701 looks different but the 1701-D does not, because it is a balancing act what you can get away with and what you want to merchandise, the 1701 is the biggest merchandise money maker, of course Kurtzman wanted his own variant and since Discovery rebooted everything else they could get away with it (and it helped that it did not look completely terrible, but for me, that is not the 1701, it is Plagiarism, an off brand copy, no thank you). ... and Picard was done on a shoestring budget, they overspend on Discovery Seasons 1+2 with expensive reshoots and Picard had to make up for it, but ended doing reshoots as well. That is why there is Shutterstock footage in Picard, that is why they used off the shelf 3D printers as replicators without any alterations, that is why they copy&pasted sooooo many ship (and shuttle) models instead of making new stuff for every scene (especially those two copy&paste fleets at the end), that is why Picard didn't get a proper room on the La Sirena but they just kept using the same set of his house and called it a hologram. None of the other rooms were used as a Holodeck, but JL practically lives in a Holodeck.
Because it would cost money...they would need to license all of those ships. The only ship they bothered to license was the Galaxy and that was only for a quick trip of nostalgia. It's obvious Picard wasn't working with the budget that Discovery had...partly to do with the large paycheck Stewart likely gets, partly to do with the odds that Amazon got Picard at a discount since Netflix passed. Plus the rumors that Kurtzman diverted funds from Picard to Discovery. So they basically just designed a few ships and copy and pasted them a hundred plus times I mean they used a 3d printer as a replicator and didn't even bother to try and make it look different at all, that is how little they cared and shows how low the budget has to be.
This interview shows perfectly just how Star Trek was once a labour of such love. The desire to excite within the boundaries of theoretical physics was what made Star Trek inspire two generations of people to pursue scientific careers. Conversely, Kurtzman is trying to make everyone as stupid as he is and inspires his team to paste utter faeces over our screens. It's as if someone handed over the franchise keys to the offspring of the village idiots. Disgraceful that anything post 2017 can be legally referred to as Star Trek. Makes me want to shower long into the deep, dark night.
"It's as if someone handed over the franchise keys to the offspring of the village idiots." Congrats you've pretty much described the entirety of the world in 2020. It's not that Picard is so horrible...Picard is a byproduct of the world we find ourselves in, where everything is horrible. This show, and all the TV shows these days, are porn for horrible people who enjoy horrible things, because it's all they know and all they care to.
@@compmanio36 Sad and true. Loved franchises are being handed to “writers”, “artists” that have no fond memories of the source. It’s just to get their piece, to have someone who looks like them tell the White people how bad they are, or the men how sexist they are, or the mildly wealthy how guilty they are. We’re witnessing the raiding of the republic. People creating our popular culture seek to destroy American identity, and to fracture and sow discord. No one is realistically optimistic in these stories, like Trek used to be. If there is any positivity instead of deconstruction, it’s written in such a childish way you can’t help but feel pandered to.
"Readily tell one vessel from the other when you saw them" In the ST:P scene I can't even tell the vessels from all the other bullshit on the screen...
This is what happens when the people in charge of producing Star Trek grew up watching Star Wars and disliking Star Trek. They don't know the difference between science-as-a-magic and science-as-a-tool.
As another commentator on another video noted, and as Memory Alpha somewhat acknowledged, the old producers had served in WWII or after in the Navy, Air Force, and other branches. When he talks about "this is the kind of ship these people make", he knows what he's talking about and how ships should work!
Half-agree: You should be able to add the action scenes and plots, without removing the setting as was done here. Season 4 and 5 of TNG got pretty good at this sometimes, and they should’ve picked their favourites as a stepping-off point.
I disagree, Star wars obeys these rules in some ways much more strictly than Sta Trek. The ships in SW have very distinct design rules. The technology for the most part is much less magical than what you get in TNG era trek. The tools Han and Chewie use to work on the Falcon could get lost in a garage and you'd have a hard time telling them from real tools. The new dreck has nothing to do with any good scifi or fantasy, it's just modern crap taken to the extreme.
@@SPTX. Lazer swords which operate on special crystals where the blade just stops because.... IDK Projectiles which can turn 90° corners and hit unseen targets because... IDK Every ship can fly incredible speeds but the Falcon (a regular issue ship) is just faster than anything else because... IDK Speeders / bikes hover over the ground of any terrain type because... IDK
STP is one of the finest recent examples of bland corporate goop, where the plot is a nonsensical trope-fest of cheap cliffhangers and the effects/visuals are not at the service of the narrative but of a misguided idea of coolness. They are so afraid of making anything that requires actual brains to appreciate.
you know, i kinda missed the fact that there is both a STD and an STP. Not sure i even care enough to be mildly annoyed that I missed/forgot that fact. I dont consider it a failing of memory. I just dont care. I watched all the TNG-enterprise stuff, and enjoyed them all, even if some of it was sorta cringy. The new stuff evokes disgust and irrelevance as the only emotions.
Older Star Trek actually used new scientific discoveries that we've uncovered over time and tried to upgrade the universe of Star Trek; incorporate those new discoveries. Even use a little out of the box thinking to see how we could utilize that to our advantage or perhaps another species and add a layer of moral conundrum.
I bet nobody has seen "Space Odyssey: Voyage To The Planets (2004)" its very realistic hard sci-fi. They made a spin-off series called "Defying Gravity (2009)" with similar premise.
@@Johnny-rx4hs Rarer or is that there's more sci-fi being made? Actual sci-fi wasn't common in the past, serious science fiction even rarer. It required more money to make properly and even after Star Wars, sci-fi was often a financial risk and was subject to movie critic assholishness that had to compare whatever was to new to the most recent break through genre movie. And past and present movie critics tend to dump on genres they didn't care for (horror, sci-fi, fantasy, superhero/comic book)
The gadget that fixes anything by imagination is pure and simple laziness on the part of the writers. They must have written themselves into a corner, they didn’t know how to fix it, the pub was open so they did this and went for a beer!
Doubtful they wrote themselves into a corner. More likely they wanted from the start to have an amazing piece of tech that is only limited by the users imagination to show how advanced they can write.
While the earlier series often had bland space battles, around DS9 they got the right balance of big scale and easy to distinguish participants. It felt like there is really a huge fleet fighting another huge fleet, but you never lose track of who is who. And nBSG also did great space battles. Both sides have very differently designed ships with very different tactics and set limits.
even star wars had rules though. the ability to manipulate the force was only present in very few people. han solo was just a guy with a ship that he fixed with his hands. i havent watched the disney crap but Lucas knew universes needed consistency.
Star wars had rules. Disney just decided they don't matter. Nearly everything before disney bought the series followed the rules the series had established
@@EricDMMiller They're races with technology that far transcends that of the Federation and its peers. But even Q had consistency, even if the consistency was omnipotence. It's not like Q sometimes couldn't do things and other times could without reasonable cause.
Science fantasy has rules, and they can be strict. SW hyperspace isn't magic. Droids can't fix everything. (at least in the OT) The aliens are not impossible. While things like the death star are impossible, an effort is made to make them look like they could work within the rules of that universe.
The original Star Wars/Star Trek/Alien/Blade Runner days made me feel like "wow, maybe someday this will be possible". New crap never makes me even consider it, because it is all so clearly over the top and ridiculous beyond the realm of possibility.
I always admire "campy" sci-fi shows and movies that repurpose ordinary stuff, from the props to the costumes I just found it more entertaining to watch and made me appreciate the show more as an art form.
Exactly. I absolutely love the older Godzilla films spanning from the 50's to the 70's because they were low budget and cheap, but they were extremely smart for what they were.
Then I'd recommend German 1960s Sci-Fi series "Raumpatrouille Orion" to you, where they used flattening irons or faucets for the space ship's controlling instruments 😅
" I never really fell in love with Star Trek. I really hated it and I really loved Star wars ( or the idea of Star wars) and so I never seen an episode of Star Trek entirely because that show is for beta cucks. So I am being paid millions of dollars to write for this show and so since I'm not a fan I want to be able to bring that Star wars feeling to this thing that I barely acknowledged at all. One of the main things that I want to do away with is science. I feel like the old Star Treks were blah blah bah science bitch stuff.... so we went ahead and rewrote the entire science aspect of Star Trek into something more like Star wars. Starfleet doesn't have a plethora of ships with different functions. WTF is this shit? that's for nerd shit. Instead everybody is huddled into big mega starships and everyone is qualified for everything.... so when Starfleet needs medical ships or we need the Starfleet corps of engineers we'll send our big ass capital ships to do everything because we're too focused on solving problems through CGI special effect action mcshooting. It's not like you'll ever see our Star trek people ever solve a problem through reasoning and logic. Fuck that hot noise bro.... we need to see some violence just like my favorite Star wars movie ever Star wars II: The empire strikes back? What do you mean there was actual drama and captivating scenes that had nothing to do with violence in Empire Strikes back?!! Nah bro in that movie Darth Vader and Luke fought for 2 hours and then the darth said I'm your father. " - Someone that will probably helm the next original series reboot
56 years old. Been a Trekkie all my life. Enjoyed it up until discovery and picard. i watch only reruns of the good trek now. discovery + picard = discard.
Oh, that’s good.. I think you might have something there. I am 52, and feel the same. I am working my way through TNG at present, to get the bad taste out of my mouth. Then I will rewatch TOS. I want “Strange New Worlds” to be good, but fail to see how it can be, with the same people involved in Discard involved in it…
They need a special segment at awards shows where they mention all the films and shows that were ruined during the year. Picard is one of the worst shows ever, no money was spent on the nonsense, it holds no content. No effects, no make up, no sets, no extras, no plot, no acting.
@whyemceeay So just a payout to " Sir Patrick". I hate it when people call him that!! I get the feeling he always hated Star Trek, took the cash but resented being typecast, they should have made it a LaForge show. Hard to believe people kept their jobs after making the trash, but that's the age we live in, the combination of Picard and ST:D has made me give up on Star Trek, I just watch the parodies now, for nostalgia.
@@Jakecmuir Blast from the past. I have seen some of the second season. Sadly it's weakest point is it's namesake, Picard, Patrick Stewart is pulling the show down. Then again I was aware during the first season that this show is not made for me, I'm glad people are enjoying it, was always more of a Sisko person though.
@@manfrombritain6816 Beat me to it. Also maybe not technically science fiction, but For All Mankind is a show the entire goddamn world is sleeping on. Those two are pretty much the best things on scripted television right now, SF or not.
@@anonymoushypersphere9093 Seen the Expanse - it is one of the best SF shows in a long while. Has there ever been a better character than Amos? Haven't watched "For All Mankind" if an Expanse fan is recommending it I will definitely give it a try.
The point of creating rules and a framework is actually very important for storytelling, be it scifi, fantasy or anything else. You have those incredible things that make that world and the characters different and special. And you set rules on what is allowed and what isn't. It sets expectations. The audience learns to know what is possible and what is impossible, even in that universe. And you can only break those rules if you can give a in-universe justification for it. Be it that the characters didn't know better before, or that it was never tried, or some requirements that never got fulfilled. You don't have to explain everything in detail, but a simple piece of exposition that even the viewer/reader can understand without further context is enough to set those rules. That is also why so often the protagonist is thrown into the "special world" from the outside. They don't know things and need them explained and that same explanation is for the reader/viewer. But you have to keep to those rules.
Isaac Asimov wrote about this too, someone said you can't have a sci-fi whodunit because in the last page you can have someone come along with a high-tech gizmo that solves the case. His response was, well, you can do that in any age, for example in the Victorian era a telegram could arrive on the last page revealing "who did it", but good writers CHOSE not to do that, instead building a consistent and credible world and then using the clues scattered throughout the preceding narrative to conclude the case.
I'm a Doctor Who fan, but even I get annoyed by the inconsistency of the sonic screwdriver. One episode, he's saying it can only work on electrical devices. The next episode, he's banishing an entire race of aliens from Earth with it.
I know that technology marches on irl, and we have to have some leeway in keeping a sci-fi franchise consistent with that, but Picard is really just another case of ignorant, selfish people who just want to make everything about spectacle, and they don't care how they go about that. They'd sooner gut the entire franchise and fill it full of shitty candy like a Piñata. The moment you start throwing shit like "you have to use your imagination" into the mix with a show that tried its best to stay true to science, then you end up with Space fantasy. That's not inherently bad, but the way they're going about it is.
I can almost suspend my disbelief in picard just by the sheer talent of the actors but at some points it's like "did they really think this was a good idea"
You could do a RUclips search for DESIGNING THE WRATH OF KHAN - FEATURETTE. It was one of several superb features that came with my DVD copy of TWOK. Joe Jennings is one of several important people (from Shatner and Montalban, to director Nick Meyer and producer Harve Bennett, etc) to appear in the featurette. Jennings might also have appeared in other features, and similar searches might produce similar results. Live long and prosper.
Now imagine that the creators of Star Trek: Picard would use all of that amazing special effects technology to make a good Star Trek show. We can only imagine, though.
What Joe Jennings did right is to approach Star Trek as a pulp novel series, where there are basic methods and conventions to telling a story as well as making sure it will relate to the audience before relating to its own fictional world(s). What modern showrunners do wrong is passively demand, “can we put in more CGI?”
It's such a shame that all the hope for the future has been killed in favor of yet another 'dark and edgier' generic scifi series, just like Galactica reboot.
@@anonymoushypersphere9093 Ah for sure. I did enjoy the Galactica reboot, but at the same time, that series kinda built the foundation for the hack frauds that cannot write anything but dark and edgy stories.
I imagine I´d done something else than to watch the first two episodes of "Star Trek - Picard" and "Star Trek - Discovery". Won´t get back that time, but have the best memorys and always 42 Minutes of time to watch *Star Trek* "the las milenials". So I mean ST The Next Generation; ST DS9 ,ad at least ST Voyager. With Voyager, the last peaces of Geene Roddeberrys *STAR TREK* died and now they pick over the bones of the corpse, feels like a bit of necrophilea. RIP ´ol Star Trek!
I agree with the theory, but that ship sailed in season 3 of TOS. Roddenberry left. Suddenly, sensors could see anything and Spock was smart enough know Brahms’ handwriting on sight. (Requiem for Methuselah)
Yeah. And in the future they would have carpets that clean themselves. On a warship I can understand having things a bit more "functional" in design, but on a science/exploration/combat hybrid I'd expect stuff to be more comfortable.
Old Star Trek: Science Fiction, had established rules Old Star Wars: Fantasy set in space, while magic was a thing, still had established rules New Star Trek: lol do whatever New Star Wars: lol do whatever
The crazy thing was that in TNG they admitted they used the tricorder too much as a MacGuffin and could have easily done better with the story. Now its like the 60s Batman, for whatever reason you've got shark spray on you to solve any random problem you run across, no need to explain how such nonsense happened or do anything more than magic to fix it. The other thing is that the crew had to work together. Engineering problem? Geordi or O'Brien solves it. Diplomacy? Riker or Picard. Need someone to fight for you? Worf's always ready. Star Trek today. We have deeply complex engineering problem we need to fix: Burnham. We have a complex science problem we need to fix: Burnham. We have a complex touchy political subject we need to deal with: Burnham. You could replace everyone else with cardboard cutouts and have the same story because the only person doing anything is Burnham.
A lot of Star Trek and Star Wars comments. Here's why Star Wars is not really science fiction. Science fiction establishes a premise based on science and then extends the premise. This is a framework. You can tell the entire story of Star Wars without science. Once upon a time, there was a kingdom that was ruled by an evil wizard. People rebelled behind a beautiful princess who was captured by a knight in black armor, but her two companions escaped and were sold into slavery to a farmer. The farmer's nephew helped them deliver a secret message to an old wizard who talked about magic. They realized the princess was being held captive in a castle. They hired a pirate ship to take them there. They escaped with the princess and the old wizard died in sword fight. Then they came back and destroyed the castle by going in through the sewers and blowing it up. Oh, and the pirate has a talking bear.
I tried so hard to love Star Trek Picard, I gave discovery a couple episodes means was done, but Picard, I binged the first season, I tried so very hard to love it, but damnit you keep removing my nostalgia goggles with your videos lol
The videos on this channel are stupendously good! I hope that one day in the future, there will be no trace left of 'new Trek', other than these videos.
If Futurama is accurate, by the 23rd century, Star Trek will have become a full blown religion. I suppose wars will be fought to destroy New Trek, and its fans will go underground, waiting until the day the 'Son of Roddenberry' (Kurtzmann) will return to lead them in a crusade against the Old Trek unbelievers, in their fine châteaux, who will [insert hack writing etc.]
Yeah, people forget about this but there were tons of ludicrous things in old Trek. But I would say thats the advantage of having a more serialised show, individual bad episodes feel disconnected and forgotten from the whole. Ongoing stories can tell grander plots, but the weaknesses become much more apparent.
1. TNG isn’t ’old Trek’. 2. Anything Wesley touched, thought, said or imagined is invalid and should be erased. He is the Adric of the Trek universe. The Poochy.
"OlDeR tReK wAs MoRe ReAlIsTiC" Me: "laughs in Warp Drive, Transporters, Replicaters, Phasers, and every alien being humanoid despite having evolved completely separately from humans"
Science fiction is imagining what could be real, and making a believable alternative using the rules of our reality. If you just poof things outta nowehere, it's fantasy. And whether it's fantasy *or* sci-fi, explain it. That's just good worldbuiling and setting the foundation for your viewers to be immersed and understand the content.
It really just comes down to intelligence and thoughtfulness doesn't it? The people that made old Trek were intelligent, educated in many things, and thoughtful. They were sci-fi fans that read a ton of sci-fi books. The people who make new trek aren't very smart, educated only in film and TV, thinking tires them out after 2 minutes, and they've barely read or seen any sci-fi in their lives. And this is the result.
Not really. It comes down to no one having any vision. Everyone is just glad to be working but they have so little passion that they would rather just hurry up and write the easiest thing at hand than put in the work to write what they necessarily have to write. Hence why Picard was basically just Mass Effect and Discovery season 3 is a series whose name I cannot remember where the starship fuel was alive all along and got revenge on the people who were consuming it.
I don't know if you've really watched much TOS, but it was about as blunt an instrument as you could muster. Heavy-handed, simplistic metaphors which were about as subtle as those a child might come up with, and as philosophically as mature as a can of cheez-whiz.
"You have to use your imagination," because the writer doesn't have one of his own. Story telling should be the first priority. Arthur C. Clarke's third law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic," was never intended to suggest that magic could replace technology in science fiction. Magic is the refuge of someone who doesn't know how to tell a story - "It happened, it makes no sense, accept it, and move along." When you must invent a new "technology" for every storyline, you suck as a writer, unless you're doing a collection of short stories.
I agree with the sentiment of your comment, but I don't agree that magic is used only by writers who don't know how to tell a story. Good fantasy writers have rules just like good science fiction writers. If magic in stories didn't have limitations, then there would be no plot or obstacle to overcome. This is in no way a defense of Kurtzman's anti-Trek, just saying that's a bit of a strange strawman.
That's one of the things I really appreciated about TNG--"technobabble" actually sounded plausible to my inner "twelve-year-old armchair physicist". There's only so much condescending hand-wavium, "oh, it's just sciency--you wouldn't understand" that I can take before my suspension of disbelief faulters. I'm tired of Hollywood treating me like an idiot. I mean, really: make an effort, for Pete's sake!
But then they would have to do some work to make what they say plausible. Real scientists pay attention and comment on what popular sci-fi shows say and do. Heck my friends who are really math smart for fun check figures in shows if they are mentioned. This would require the writers to expend effort on something other than the "message", it's easier to just say 'use your imagination '.
Star Treks realism goes even further. I visited a friends Physics Readings somewhat regularly and this Professor is not unknown. He wrote several Books about the Physics in Football, James Bond and Trek and he would regularly show clips and do a deep dive. Very entertaining and informative. Now teleportation is something that is theoretically impossible, because there is a certain degree of which atoms will get mixed up. It is minor, but large enough to kill complex organisms. This variable got a name I forgott, but in an TNG or DS9 Episode, O'Brian mentioned that a certain buffer was destroyed, referencing this very variable. Or when in VOY Checotay went back in time to the first time Janeway got the Voyager, her Admiral Tutor asked her a physics-question, which is a hard one and the Prof had to think about it, but Janeways answer was correct (alltho the question was asked kinda weirdly, so there was "room for interpretation") Even how Warp works, all is based on Physics theorems
The way I see it, there's two sides to the Trek fandom: The REAL TREK FANS, who understand the nuances and subtleties of old Trek and have been a part of the fandom since before STD trash And the FAKES, who insist on blowing up everything they can because the wait between Star Wars movies is too long, and tried to get on board the franchise only AFTER STD was puked out. Now, if the real fans want to survive and preserve what little dignity Trek has left, we need to mame our grievances known to the Fake Trek fans. We've got to separate and expel them from our franchise if there'd any hope of survival left.
I hope there's still hope. But I think we really need to make ourselves known to the producers. They need to know we are the real audience and we are not only "still" around, but as I heard Nana Visitor point out, there are tons of new fans of pre-2009 Trek still being made today, via netflix and the internet.
+J. S. There really is no hope left, at least none that I can see. The only way I'd be persuaded to come back is if the entire STD staff were blacklisted from new Trek for the rest of their lives. This includes "SIR" PUTRID STEWART and that Fake Musician Jeff Russo (more like Jeff Russkie), and anyone willing to associate with Alex KUNTzman and his terrorist cabal. That will never happen, though. And I loathe it more with each day that passes.
Star Trek fans: how dare you ruin my show with this trash stapled onto it! Stargate, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, Terminator, and Doctor Who fans: first time? But really tho, there is very little hope unless we stop the cultural revolution in its tracks. Let me know how one does that. Because to my knowledge nobody has stopped that stone rolling downhill once it got going - you just had to wait for it to roll itself out.
@@axenledgie1423 There's always some hope. It may not work, but it's worth a try: www.change.org/p/cbs-remove-alex-kurtzman-and-secret-hideout-from-all-star-trek-projects
I never realized I would miss TNG/DS9 style phaser sound effects. They gave the Defiant pulse phaser cannons in order to up the cool factor. Now Trek is basically Star Wars.
@@thegodofalldragons I love Star Wars. I am a big fan of both franchises. I like them for different reasons. Star Wars has always been a space cowboy and space monk with a sword story while Trek has always been more serious science fiction. It's sad to see current Trek "spiced up" in order to make it less "nerdy". I liked the nerdiness
I really appreciated that aspect of the classic Treks. Sure it's sci-fi, but they really made an effort to put in the research and make the science and tech seem believable. Kids grew up wanting to be engineers because of characters like Scotty and Laforge. All of that is absent from these new Treks with idiotic concepts like imagination wands and temporal video scanners. Almost as though it's being written by and for idiots.
I worked 10 years as a Film Projectionist and during the whole time while troubleshooting computers, server, networks, projectors, i felt like Scotty and Laforge. Watching them growing up, gave me tons of problem solving skills that i was able to make a career out of. Current Sci-Fi, feels so lazy, tech does all the work and it feel like the crew can't do anything, they feel more like END USERS of a product, rather then developers and engineers.
2:05 and the best award for cinematography goes to...the 30 year old something idiot that likes to hit the duplicate object button inside of the 3D program. NOT
To be fair, the laser scanners and projectors used during the investigation of what happened in the room before, is consistent with the framework of present day tech as a base. Scanners & holography generally work like that and if you give it 5-10 years, you will have AR and scanners with that level of capacity.
It was stupid because they said the romulans scrabbed that room of evidence so it wont work yet it could show everything up to that moment but if they scrabbed everything it doesnt make sense
Yep, exactly this. It can be the most crazy thing, but if you base it on what we know in science, it makes it believable. If you base it on something magical or that has no believable aspect on how it functions, well, it goes to the realm of space fantasy and not science fiction. For example, in the beginning they could say "you have to use your imagination", but if later on they explain how it actually works, something like "it actually scans brain waves and then translate it into a visual representation of what you are thinking" or whatever, there, it becomes science fiction again. Because they explain the concept of how it works in a scientific way. It's not something that "just happens because imagination", it's something that happens because of a set of rules based in science. If they keep saying "just use your imagination and wave the thingy", it keeps being just a magic thingy that does things.
"You can't do anything you want to, just because it's science fiction. Otherwise it wouldn't be believable." ----------------- "Yo guys, what if the transporter split Kirk in half and there's like a good Kirk and an evil Kirk!" "But why would the transporter do that?" "Who cares, I've this whole Ying Yang theme I want to use." "Ah sure throw it in. But after this we're doing strictly believable things with the series from here on out. Like scantly clad women trying to steal Spock's brain."
Honestly I HATE this new style of CGI being used. As far as I remember this shit first started being used in BSG:Blood&Chrome. Then Disney StarWars, JJ's StarTrek, STD, and now this. The CGI is far too frantic and hugely cheesey looking, it's not "believable" space combat. I also hate how they KILLED the LCARS computers with stupid holographic screens, and butchered the computer voice/personality that ST:VOY last used. And the sound effects are low tier annoying.
and nBSG did amazing space battles that worked within the framework of the world and were simple enough to keep track off... But the simple reason why the voice isn't there anymore is because Roddenberry's widow died in 2008, and she was the voice for the computer throughout Trek. (and played a couple other roles as well)
Wait... did Picard also steal Thargoids from Elite Dangerous along with everything else they stole? Cuz those flower shaped things look an awful lot like thargoids...
I would love to go back in time and run the fungus drive theory past Gene Roddenberry. Then I’ll suggest they use sonar in space to detect cloaked vessels they can already detect. 🙂
I loved that part in the movie. Oh no, the Klingons have a ship that can fire while cloaked (which usually wasn't possible for balancing reasons and explained with power draw) We have an enemy that got around the major weakness they had. But that is new tech, so stuff isn't ready for mass production and the prototype still has issues to be ironed out. We can exploit those issues. Even in Nemesis. Oh no, that shiip can fire while cloaked and the cloak is "perfect" what should we do. Oh, on hit the cloak has issues. Fire a broadside around and if you see something happening, shoot there. Technology has a reason to exist and weaknesses. The warp drive was never the fastest FTL drive across franchises, but that meant that places had distance to each other and the stereotypical "the Enterprise is the only ship in range" comes into play. Can't just instantly bring in the fleet as deus ex machina. That way there is tension, because resources are limited and the characters have to figure out a way to overcome the odds and succeed.
TNG
Data: My scan of the room indicates repeated occasions of multiple individuals sitting on the couch.
Picard: Can you isolate one of those occasions?
Data: I can feed the data into the ship's computer and allow it to extrapolate scenarios, but it will take some time. More recent occurrences would naturally further obfuscate past ones.
Picard
I'll move this device throughout the room to capture the one moment in time that is relevant to the plot.
What?! I have to MOVE the device?!
Why cant I use my imagination?!
Uh!
Spot on.
It also picks up sound
TNG: Access the main computer to find out who was in this room that day. Then let's bring them in for questioning.
And then while people are being questioned maybe Geordi finds out that on that day someone a deck above that room was recording a personal log. If he can enhance the recording then he might be able to listen to what was said in the room that day. But for privacy reasons the owner of the recording doesn't want anyone to hear it, not even in confidence. Geordi could simply pull rank and order the person to release the recording but he'd rather find another way. This could easily take up half the episode.
Lets not forget how the D's computer has 3 cores so massive you can walk i em.
“Just use your imagination” is just a way for the writers to avoid using theirs. In the same meeting someone probably suggested the name unobtainium.
It's an old term used in engineering for an ideal material for a project, that doesn't exist, but which would solve all your problems.
But i guess that was too beyond smarmy nerds looking for things to complain about.
(Star Trek Picard sucks)
@@Nukle0n Yep, those smarmy nerds... Not like the smug, sarcastic git you seem to be.
" Question, question?"
"I don't know, wada you recon?" (Cute wink)
"I recon you don't know Mr kurtstien"
@@Nukle0n that, and also a "we have this material but we don't know what to do with it yet".
carbon fibre was known as unobtanium for just a short while after its invention
Are we all conveniently forgetting when TNG made this cardinal sin? That Vulcan weapon that could kill with emotion…?
Rose tinted glasses I guess.
well they got the bit right about making all the ships look similar like the US navy when they copy pasted that one ship 200 times for the climax
They managed to make a space battle boring with that.
They just copy the ships a bunch of times and stick them in the background so they don't need to move. Very cheap from an animation and rendering perspective. Also the warp jump is just the ship suddenly moving in a straight line. Also pretty easy, although Trek has been using that since the OT movies.
Hm.
@whyemceeay The USS Copy and Paste was the first ship I served on after graduating from Starfleet Academy. Those were strange times the 2390s. Luckily they were phased out by 2440.
"If that worked with Star Wars, it will work with Star Trek as well". (c) Kurtzman
One of my favourite aspects about the smooth, clean appearance of the TOS Enterprise was that even the aesthetic reflected a purpose: almost all machinery and equipment had to be accessible from the _inside_ of the ship (because you're in space, far from drydock), therefore there were a minimum of projections and other surface features.
They didn't think of that when designing the ships in TOS though. They just wanted a slick "Space Age" look to them and a simpler model was cheaper and quicker to build. Otherwise a starship hull might as well just be a perfect sphere.
@@jamestheotherone742 True. However, in addition to that, they were making TOS for the small screen and lots of details wouldn't be seen on the low resolution screens of the time.
@@jamestheotherone742 Matt Jefferies is on record talking about how the smooth design was decided on before physical modeling even got started. He's also stated that he had to argue and fight to prevent them from _adding_ more surface features, which doesn't fit with your assertion.
@@LN997-i8x forgive me for never having had this click before this very moment, but... Matt Jefferies? ... Jefferies tubes... Hmmm :P
@@giin97 You are correct: memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Jefferies_tube
It is kind of ironic that TNG effectively introduced magic into the universe (in the form of Q) in such a way that I never felt they were insulting my intelligence.
Picard... "Here's a magic wand!"
I think it's because Q feels more like he operates on the concept of technology so advanced it looks like magic. Nothing Q did in the first episode was impossible since it all could have been performed by an advanced ship with an advanced forcefield device and an advanced teleporter+holodeck.
@@GeorgeMonet It also helps that Q and his kind are stated to be interdimensional beings that are unfathomably more complex and advanced than most species in Star Trek. They might not see it as impressive, but to us they seem like gods because of the huge gap in development. They operate on a level that humans couldn’t even begin to understand, so there’s no way in hell we’d have those powers (unless they give them to us like with Riker).
I think in a way it's probably because we were never the magicians, merely the humans.
Q lived his own life, had his own personality and goals. He wasn't a tool in kurtzman's characters' hands. That's why this kind of magic was acceptable
There were psi beings and magicish types in TOS as well tho..
You always get some science-fantasy creeping in once you have dozens of writers all doing the same cinematic universe, most writers aren't sci-fi writers...
Star Trek My Aunt Fanny's Girdle would have made a more interesting prospect than Picard...
Try explaining the aunt Fannys girdle metaphor to Mr Data. 😐😁
@@qwave1322 I can't help hearing Brent Spiners voice uttering. "Fascinating."
Warbird Phoenix 😂
As opposed to My Aunt Girdle's Fanny?
@@qwave1322 "So an elasticated undergarment, that belongs to the sister of one of his parents, is a violation of his frame of reference for realism in science fiction. Intriguing!"
Imagine the scene where they scanned the room was in TNG. It would be a mystery that took the whole episode to solve. The crew would have to use their collective knowledge and science to figure out what happened. Now, in Picard, they use magic to resolve complex issues within seconds. It's bad writing.
I submit that we don't have to imagine that -- there was an episode called "Identity Crisis" (4x18), and it was a fantastic episode. The plot centered around the fact that Geordi LaForge had to use the holodeck to extrapolate an away-team's actions, in order to deduce that a new species had infected him with spores. And it *did* take the whole episode.
@@CinemaDemocratica Ah, yes! I remember that episode. 👍
@@CinemaDemocratica There was also a VOY episode with someone going around attacking crew members and Tuvok gets set to find the one responsible.
I think it's more that you're witnessing bad writing within the context of a completely different type of show.
TNG was a little soap opera, the episodes were made back when TV was king and the important thing to do was to keep pumping out more of what people liked. TNG could afford an episode like that but this show couldn't.
This is not a defense of the show as I said I agree it's bad writing, but this issue had to be resolved as quick as it was for the sake of the flow. Could it have been done better? Could it have been written better? Sure, but it cannot be compared directly to how TNG would do it because that's unfair.
“You have to use your imagination”
I imagine that Star Trek Picard is gone
How about just not watching it😉
I imagine that Star Trek Picard is removed from my memory.
Raise your wand. Concentrate. Say “Expello Picardus!“
I tried this. Sadly it didn't work. But why didn't it? I used my imagination. ;-)
*imagines this is the end of DS9.*
Ahhhhhhh. Normalcy.
After attaining a critical point of mass appeal all sci-fi franchises start collapsing into themselves like dying stars and becoming black holes from where a complex idea can't escape the event horizon of corporate mandated marketing.
Stargate held on for a remarkably long time before succumbing as well. Now that the Expanse is finished for the moment all my hopes and dreams lie on the Babylon 5 reboot.
@@Karackal its a reboot thats already the problem.. its start trek.. you can literally come up with a million different story ideas.. when you can travel the galaxy..
but no lets do something that has been done(probably better) before AGAIN...
no originality nothing..
Not just sci-fi either. Beloved children’s cartoons are brought back decades later & dragged down the same way w/ a new, “revamped” look & “modern humor” that while trying to evoke nostalgia just completely misses the point & ruins the legacy permenantly..
I think the writers for Picard watched a few trailers for other Trek shows, skimmed thru a few old scripts and finally said, “Alright, guys. I think we have a good understanding of what StarGate is all about.
I think I disagree. They really show that they've done their homework. They just value some aspects of Trek more than others, and many fans have a different order of preference.
@@Giby86 Well, the critique appears to be that they value different aspects of story-telling more than others.
@@x--. That's my point. OP seemed to be saying that they lack understanding or knowledge of the material, and I don't think that's the case.
@@Giby86 Heh. I think you're right. I'm saying the video is critiquing their basic storytelling ability, not even commenting on Trek in particular.
Giby86 I think the news shows are written by people who got degrees in gender studies and have no fucking idea about how diverse Star Trek was and instead just ram as much social justice bullshit into the new shows as possible hoping that making it part of the Trek franchises will get them viewers
plausibility within the own universe, when you extend the borders of this world you must have a good explanation. therefore harry potter does not beam away with a transporter and skywalker does not drive an DeLorean.
why did they even bother to design this piece in the Picard series, they could have just given him a magic stick of wood
Like Hollywood...?
@@2bituser569 yeah, but picard is just woke, he's not a Hollywood babyeater.
Babylon 5 did magical item very well, by not using them without a reason, not using them too much and keeping them mysterious.
Like the apocalypse box captain Gideon has in Crusade.
Waves wand : poopy poop make this franchise disappear
The future for me with the Human race is exactly how this Picard shows it in this new enlightened series 'Fifth Element'! Horrible film but a good film! Picard is just awful!
That Riker clip had a very Event Horizon feel.
Underrated
What riker clip ????????
Where we're going, you wont need seats to sit.
Hell is only a word. Star Trek Picard is much, much worse.
Kinda looks like Rubber Jonny
"You have to use your imagination"
Shouldn't that be the job of the writer?
It's an exocomp that can read thoughts. Imagine the screwdriver you need, it replicates one.
@@ronaldhudson169 That's a really vague idea though, that wouldn't work even if it were technically possible. The human mind does not just immediately and clearly imagine one specific thing (including all the exact details of whatever it may be). If some tech like that were actually to be used, you'd end up with some onject that might look a lot like whatever it is you wanted but it wouldn't work right. Also, all kinds of random other things would be replicated with it because the human mind is, in reality, all over the place at any given moment. You also would not be imagining all the astonishingly specific ins and outs of whatever tech you wanted replicating...a replicator would require exceedingly specific programming to be able to replicate anything, not just some bozos vague imaginings. Therefore, you might as well just use a replicator.
Yeah, I really don't like how "technology" in Picard works more like magical items from a Harry Potter movie. Star Trek has always, pre-Kurtzman, tried its best to base the technology in it on real science and real theoretical science to make it as realistic and believable as possible. Not only wat that device where you can use your imagination to do anything really dumb, that device where they could scan particles in a room and instantly re-play a conversation that took place there was really dumb.. Especially, how it just instantly played the conversation that they wanted to hear. Now, let's overlook the dumbness of scanning a room for particles and using them to replay a 3D video for a second. Even if we overlooked that, why would we get the exact footage that we are looking for right away? Why not get the girl cooking food in her kitchen or having sex with the guy on her couch or snoring in her sleep in the middle of the night or something? In TNG, they'd at least skip around to see a few other recordings when searching someone's personal logs before they died, not jump right to the video they are looking for right away, which was more realistic.
The whole “pull a recording out of thin air” thing reminded me of something from Star Wars. I think it might be Legends now, but there was a Force ability where you could also see and hear memories of things that happened at a place. Both examples sound like magic, the difference being that in Star Wars it’s SUPPOSED to be magic. And even then, magic with fairly clear rules and boundaries.
I wouldn't say that it's based on real science, but every technology in the show is consistent with every other technology, a magical imagination device seems very inconsistent.
I love Startrek, but lets be honest; they never really tried to keep their theoretical science within realistic boundaries.
Nevermind warpdrive, they frequently encounter psychic aliens or godlike aliens, ridiculously implausible forms of life like 2-dimesional creatures, crystalline entities, evil goop etc. Even the physiology and cultures of even the common alien species doesn't make sense, and the series does a really poor job of writing the consequences of the technologies these space-faring civilizations have access to outside any episodes dedicated to exploring that.
But what old startrek does beautifully that newtrek fails to do is enough care and world building to make this stuff feel believable, even if it falls apart when you think about it too hard.
TNG is incredible at setting up a problem or a mystery, explaining why the technology they have can't instantly solve it, and then following the logic as the characters unravel the mystery and develop new tools, or new ways of using established technology to solve a problem, or solve it in a way which relies on things the characters (and the audience) learned during the episode, and than plastering over the cracks with technobable.
That is why startrek feels like capital S, hard Science fiction- because it's episode format reflects the scientific method of problem solving.
And that's something newtrek really doesn't understand. They subscribe to a writing school where they have a plot and just want to push it forward. Why even spend a token amount of time explaining why something works? Just make it work and shove it through. That's why it feels dumb, because it treats the audience as incredulous fools.
Old trek will take take your suspension of disbelief gently, buy it flowers, a big dinner, and massage it before asks you to accept things.
New trek will just violate your suspension of disbelief on the spot and spit on it.
Its pretty clear which set of writers cares more about their audience.
@@dibbidydoo4318 I was going to mention this. Like let's be honest, we *can't* go faster than the speed of light. But you can break that rule and still have a good story. But if your ship has a certain speed but magically can break it when the plot requires it, that's bad storytelling.
@@MagikosEksMaikhina That is one beautiful metaphor at the end there
Why do STP’s phasers sound so lame? It’s like a kids laser blaster toy you’d pick up form the pound shop. No energy behind the sound. If they want rapid fire *cough* Star Wars *cough* the Deviant’s pulsed phasers sounded bad ass! Phasers were always a tool as much as a weapon. It’s literally “pew pew.” Shite.
I hated energy weapons in most sci-fi shows and movies. That said, I loved that distinct "spool up and discharge" sound of the phasers. They sounded like they consumed energy from the ship's power plant and it was easy to imagine the heat build up on the phaser array as well as the cumulative damage they caused.
That is what you get when you put someone who disliked Star Trek but like Star Wars...in charge of Star Trek
Since Star Trek 2009 I absolutely hated the "pew" "pew" phasers. You are right. They sound weak, they lack the utility of a beam phaser, and there is no sense whatsoever that the energy of the ship is behind it. They might as well be bullets. They are also fired far too often. With beam phasers, or even pulse phasers or pulse disruptors, we get the sense that a starship can only fire them so long before exhausting the built up energy reserves needed to fire them. This adds to the sense of just how powerful they are. The pew pew phasers are just a light show. They are sprayed all over the screen completely without consequence.
People are angry about the sound effects phasers make.
...Who says Trekkies overreact to everything?
@@kaicreech7336 Isnt there a new Star Wars movie you can watch kid?! Oh wait, what, it was shit aswell, .... im sorry man! :/
'it's so dense; every single frame has so many things going on' Also do they include an epilepsy warning before every episode?
So many things going on.. Except an actual meaningful plot..
Duds that's so funny. That's a quote from George Lucas in the behind the scenes documentary. That's pretty funny of you. You should start a channel which reviews movies, I think that phrase will catch on! xD xD
the whole dense thing put me right off watching any of the Michael Bay Transformers movies, those robots are constantly shifting around my eyes couldn't take it.
Its like looking at a pile of garbage
DS9 didn't have the budget that Picard show has yet managed much better battles with multiple ships without making it look boring and bland. I really don't get why they didn't have any older ships amongst them. Some Defiant, Galaxy, Intrepid and Prometheus class ships would have fit perfectly and they've got the CGI assets so could have easily re-produced them.
It's obvious that Picard show is nothing more than a greedy man's idea of squeezing money out of what was once a great franchise. They have triple the budget of any Star Trek show ever made with less episodes per season so there's just no excuse for them being that lazy. Picard show destroyed Star Trek for me, I cannot watch TNG without thinking that Picard is just full of crap. He's a weak man pretending to be strong in front of his crew. No wonder he was so private and kept himself to himself. He didn't want anyone to find out he was weak. Even Dr Crusher he kept at distance. Vash was the perfect match for Picard. She understood he was full of crap just like her.
Watch Tng “imagining” stp is a big Q episode showing Picard another bad alternative life like he did in tapestry. Then imagine Picard begging to go back to the moment after Nemesis to set history straight.
still, warp core explosion is huge, so certain scene in DS9 where ship combat in close proximity is not plausible.
Licensing, they operate under the same Bad Robot type license from the JJ Movies, every thing from real Star Trek they want to use they have to pay a license fee for, and everything they create on their own they can actually use for merchandising. Now ask yourself why the 1701 looks different but the 1701-D does not, because it is a balancing act what you can get away with and what you want to merchandise, the 1701 is the biggest merchandise money maker, of course Kurtzman wanted his own variant and since Discovery rebooted everything else they could get away with it (and it helped that it did not look completely terrible, but for me, that is not the 1701, it is Plagiarism, an off brand copy, no thank you).
... and Picard was done on a shoestring budget, they overspend on Discovery Seasons 1+2 with expensive reshoots and Picard had to make up for it, but ended doing reshoots as well.
That is why there is Shutterstock footage in Picard, that is why they used off the shelf 3D printers as replicators without any alterations, that is why they copy&pasted sooooo many ship (and shuttle) models instead of making new stuff for every scene (especially those two copy&paste fleets at the end), that is why Picard didn't get a proper room on the La Sirena but they just kept using the same set of his house and called it a hologram. None of the other rooms were used as a Holodeck, but JL practically lives in a Holodeck.
It's because Kurzman and Chabon just don't care about space scenes.
Because it would cost money...they would need to license all of those ships. The only ship they bothered to license was the Galaxy and that was only for a quick trip of nostalgia. It's obvious Picard wasn't working with the budget that Discovery had...partly to do with the large paycheck Stewart likely gets, partly to do with the odds that Amazon got Picard at a discount since Netflix passed. Plus the rumors that Kurtzman diverted funds from Picard to Discovery. So they basically just designed a few ships and copy and pasted them a hundred plus times
I mean they used a 3d printer as a replicator and didn't even bother to try and make it look different at all, that is how little they cared and shows how low the budget has to be.
This interview shows perfectly just how Star Trek was once a labour of such love. The desire to excite within the boundaries of theoretical physics was what made Star Trek inspire two generations of people to pursue scientific careers. Conversely, Kurtzman is trying to make everyone as stupid as he is and inspires his team to paste utter faeces over our screens. It's as if someone handed over the franchise keys to the offspring of the village idiots. Disgraceful that anything post 2017 can be legally referred to as Star Trek. Makes me want to shower long into the deep, dark night.
"It's as if someone handed over the franchise keys to the offspring of the village idiots."
Congrats you've pretty much described the entirety of the world in 2020.
It's not that Picard is so horrible...Picard is a byproduct of the world we find ourselves in, where everything is horrible. This show, and all the TV shows these days, are porn for horrible people who enjoy horrible things, because it's all they know and all they care to.
*post 2009
Post 2017? more like post 2005
@@hannibalb8276 Enterprise was the last great Star Trek series. End of story. Everything post Enterprise is not Star Trek.
@@compmanio36 Sad and true. Loved franchises are being handed to “writers”, “artists” that have no fond memories of the source. It’s just to get their piece, to have someone who looks like them tell the White people how bad they are, or the men how sexist they are, or the mildly wealthy how guilty they are. We’re witnessing the raiding of the republic. People creating our popular culture seek to destroy American identity, and to fracture and sow discord. No one is realistically optimistic in these stories, like Trek used to be. If there is any positivity instead of deconstruction, it’s written in such a childish way you can’t help but feel pandered to.
"Readily tell one vessel from the other when you saw them"
In the ST:P scene I can't even tell the vessels from all the other bullshit on the screen...
It's tough when a franchise is rebooted by people who thought they needed to "fix" it
It's not Startrek at this point, it's literally just a lame Starwars fake
Not even, I keep referring to it as Picard: Dangerous cause it looks way more like Elite
Are you implying that Star Wars is worse than Star Trek?
@@AlexPBenton He's implying that it was, and that now they both suck.
To be fair it’s still better than Modern Star Wars.
Throw some Doctor Who in because these Hollywood executives have no idea what they're doing.
This is what happens when the people in charge of producing Star Trek grew up watching Star Wars and disliking Star Trek. They don't know the difference between science-as-a-magic and science-as-a-tool.
As another commentator on another video noted, and as Memory Alpha somewhat acknowledged, the old producers had served in WWII or after in the Navy, Air Force, and other branches. When he talks about "this is the kind of ship these people make", he knows what he's talking about and how ships should work!
Half-agree: You should be able to add the action scenes and plots, without removing the setting as was done here. Season 4 and 5 of TNG got pretty good at this sometimes, and they should’ve picked their favourites as a stepping-off point.
I disagree, Star wars obeys these rules in some ways much more strictly than Sta Trek.
The ships in SW have very distinct design rules. The technology for the most part is much less magical than what you get in TNG era trek. The tools Han and Chewie use to work on the Falcon could get lost in a garage and you'd have a hard time telling them from real tools.
The new dreck has nothing to do with any good scifi or fantasy, it's just modern crap taken to the extreme.
There is no "science as a magic" in star wars. At least not since the midiclorians and unless you're talking about disney's.
@@SPTX. Lazer swords which operate on special crystals where the blade just stops because.... IDK
Projectiles which can turn 90° corners and hit unseen targets because... IDK
Every ship can fly incredible speeds but the Falcon (a regular issue ship) is just faster than anything else because... IDK
Speeders / bikes hover over the ground of any terrain type because... IDK
STP is one of the finest recent examples of bland corporate goop, where the plot is a nonsensical trope-fest of cheap cliffhangers and the effects/visuals are not at the service of the narrative but of a misguided idea of coolness. They are so afraid of making anything that requires actual brains to appreciate.
afraid, or using the name and likeness of an established IP to prop up bad writers? you decide!
you know, i kinda missed the fact that there is both a STD and an STP.
Not sure i even care enough to be mildly annoyed that I missed/forgot that fact. I dont consider it a failing of memory. I just dont care.
I watched all the TNG-enterprise stuff, and enjoyed them all, even if some of it was sorta cringy. The new stuff evokes disgust and irrelevance as the only emotions.
You can only go STP once you got STD.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx This. I think they aren't afraid of but simply incapable of it.
You need to use your imagination....can that thing give us a better startrek series?
Yes it's called The Orville
Older Star Trek actually used new scientific discoveries that we've uncovered over time and tried to upgrade the universe of Star Trek; incorporate those new discoveries. Even use a little out of the box thinking to see how we could utilize that to our advantage or perhaps another species and add a layer of moral conundrum.
The future looked better before....Star Trek, Blade Runner, Alien, Star Wars....nowadays it's all garbage!
The Expanse, Ex Machina, Firefly, maybe the new Dune but can't say until it comes out.
Good sci-fi can still be found. Though it is getting rarer.
The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
I bet nobody has seen "Space Odyssey: Voyage To The Planets (2004)" its very realistic hard sci-fi. They made a spin-off series called "Defying Gravity (2009)" with similar premise.
@@Johnny-rx4hs Rarer or is that there's more sci-fi being made? Actual sci-fi wasn't common in the past, serious science fiction even rarer. It required more money to make properly and even after Star Wars, sci-fi was often a financial risk and was subject to movie critic assholishness that had to compare whatever was to new to the most recent break through genre movie. And past and present movie critics tend to dump on genres they didn't care for (horror, sci-fi, fantasy, superhero/comic book)
@@xponen sweet gonna check those out.
The gadget that fixes anything by imagination is pure and simple laziness on the part of the writers. They must have written themselves into a corner, they didn’t know how to fix it, the pub was open so they did this and went for a beer!
Might as well have used Fix-It Felix's magic hammer.
*Insert Sponegob "Imagination" meme gif here*
Too bad it couldn't fix Picard
@@nikkiferretti That’s expecting too much from it! Frankly Picard and Discovery should be regarded as non canon and something else created that is!
Doubtful they wrote themselves into a corner. More likely they wanted from the start to have an amazing piece of tech that is only limited by the users imagination to show how advanced they can write.
To myself: "Major Grin should use that shot of Riker as his new profile pic."
Looks at profile pic: "Well done, good sir."
Perfect thumbnail
The space battle has so much going on you cant see what is actually happening its just lights flashing on and off
"It's so dense. Every single image has so many things going on."
While the earlier series often had bland space battles, around DS9 they got the right balance of big scale and easy to distinguish participants. It felt like there is really a huge fleet fighting another huge fleet, but you never lose track of who is who.
And nBSG also did great space battles. Both sides have very differently designed ships with very different tactics and set limits.
See this is what differentiates sci-fi from space fantasy like Star Wars: sci fi must stick to its rules, space fantasy has no rules.
even star wars had rules though. the ability to manipulate the force was only present in very few people. han solo was just a guy with a ship that he fixed with his hands. i havent watched the disney crap but Lucas knew universes needed consistency.
Star wars had rules. Disney just decided they don't matter. Nearly everything before disney bought the series followed the rules the series had established
@@EricDMMiller They're races with technology that far transcends that of the Federation and its peers. But even Q had consistency, even if the consistency was omnipotence. It's not like Q sometimes couldn't do things and other times could without reasonable cause.
Fantasy has rules too in many cases. Don't confuse "fantasy" with shit writing.
Science fantasy has rules, and they can be strict.
SW hyperspace isn't magic. Droids can't fix everything. (at least in the OT)
The aliens are not impossible.
While things like the death star are impossible, an effort is made to make them look like they could work within the rules of that universe.
The original Star Wars/Star Trek/Alien/Blade Runner days made me feel like "wow, maybe someday this will be possible". New crap never makes me even consider it, because it is all so clearly over the top and ridiculous beyond the realm of possibility.
Kurtzman: "I guess we were in the bar and got a little drunk.."
Sisko: "Drunk....."
Things old Trek has that are missing from new Trek:
Style
Grace
Poise
Dignity
Respect
Elegance
Intelligence
Wisdom
Optimism
@@Akm72 Good one.
That list could probably be made into a pretty neat acronym if I wasn't too lazy at the moment.
... and logic
You have to use you imagination... up there in your fiiiine chât-teau
Nobody taught Raffi how to use a replicator.
Raffi just might be the worst Star Trek character of all time.
I always admire "campy" sci-fi shows and movies that repurpose ordinary stuff, from the props to the costumes I just found it more entertaining to watch and made me appreciate the show more as an art form.
Exactly. I absolutely love the older Godzilla films spanning from the 50's to the 70's because they were low budget and cheap, but they were extremely smart for what they were.
Then I'd recommend German 1960s Sci-Fi series "Raumpatrouille Orion" to you, where they used flattening irons or faucets for the space ship's controlling instruments 😅
" I never really fell in love with Star Trek. I really hated it and I really loved Star wars ( or the idea of Star wars) and so I never seen an episode of Star Trek entirely because that show is for beta cucks. So I am being paid millions of dollars to write for this show and so since I'm not a fan I want to be able to bring that Star wars feeling to this thing that I barely acknowledged at all. One of the main things that I want to do away with is science. I feel like the old Star Treks were blah blah bah science bitch stuff.... so we went ahead and rewrote the entire science aspect of Star Trek into something more like Star wars. Starfleet doesn't have a plethora of ships with different functions. WTF is this shit? that's for nerd shit. Instead everybody is huddled into big mega starships and everyone is qualified for everything.... so when Starfleet needs medical ships or we need the Starfleet corps of engineers we'll send our big ass capital ships to do everything because we're too focused on solving problems through CGI special effect action mcshooting. It's not like you'll ever see our Star trek people ever solve a problem through reasoning and logic. Fuck that hot noise bro.... we need to see some violence just like my favorite Star wars movie ever Star wars II: The empire strikes back? What do you mean there was actual drama and captivating scenes that had nothing to do with violence in Empire Strikes back?!! Nah bro in that movie Darth Vader and Luke fought for 2 hours and then the darth said I'm your father. "
- Someone that will probably helm the next original series reboot
56 years old. Been a Trekkie all my life. Enjoyed it up until discovery and picard. i watch only reruns of the good trek now. discovery + picard = discard.
Oh, that’s good.. I think you might have something there.
I am 52, and feel the same. I am working my way through TNG at present, to get the bad taste out of my mouth. Then I will rewatch TOS. I want “Strange New Worlds” to be good, but fail to see how it can be, with the same people involved in Discard involved in it…
They need a special segment at awards shows where they mention all the films and shows that were ruined during the year. Picard is one of the worst shows ever, no money was spent on the nonsense, it holds no content. No effects, no make up, no sets, no extras, no plot, no acting.
@whyemceeay So just a payout to " Sir Patrick". I hate it when people call him that!! I get the feeling he always hated Star Trek, took the cash but resented being typecast, they should have made it a LaForge show.
Hard to believe people kept their jobs after making the trash, but that's the age we live in, the combination of Picard and ST:D has made me give up on Star Trek, I just watch the parodies now, for nostalgia.
But they really put Picard in his place, an old straight white male... and the analogue for Brexit. This is what it's all about man, not Trek.
Nonsense. Star Trek Picard is awesome and Season 2 is even better.
@@Jakecmuir Blast from the past. I have seen some of the second season. Sadly it's weakest point is it's namesake, Picard, Patrick Stewart is pulling the show down. Then again I was aware during the first season that this show is not made for me, I'm glad people are enjoying it, was always more of a Sisko person though.
@@malachidrake7777 ah yes. Clearly different tastes, for me Patrick Stewart is by far the best bit. I felt the same about TNG as well.
This isn't just STP. This is all science fiction nowadays.
Not true, have you not seen The Expanse?
@@manfrombritain6816 Beat me to it. Also maybe not technically science fiction, but For All Mankind is a show the entire goddamn world is sleeping on. Those two are pretty much the best things on scripted television right now, SF or not.
Have you seen The Expanse or For All Mankind?
@@anonymoushypersphere9093 Nope.
@@anonymoushypersphere9093 Seen the Expanse - it is one of the best SF shows in a long while. Has there ever been a better character than Amos? Haven't watched "For All Mankind" if an Expanse fan is recommending it I will definitely give it a try.
I try to imagine a universe where Bad Reboot and Secret Hideout don't exist
The point of creating rules and a framework is actually very important for storytelling, be it scifi, fantasy or anything else.
You have those incredible things that make that world and the characters different and special. And you set rules on what is allowed and what isn't.
It sets expectations. The audience learns to know what is possible and what is impossible, even in that universe.
And you can only break those rules if you can give a in-universe justification for it. Be it that the characters didn't know better before, or that it was never tried, or some requirements that never got fulfilled.
You don't have to explain everything in detail, but a simple piece of exposition that even the viewer/reader can understand without further context is enough to set those rules. That is also why so often the protagonist is thrown into the "special world" from the outside. They don't know things and need them explained and that same explanation is for the reader/viewer.
But you have to keep to those rules.
Isaac Asimov wrote about this too, someone said you can't have a sci-fi whodunit because in the last page you can have someone come along with a high-tech gizmo that solves the case. His response was, well, you can do that in any age, for example in the Victorian era a telegram could arrive on the last page revealing "who did it", but good writers CHOSE not to do that, instead building a consistent and credible world and then using the clues scattered throughout the preceding narrative to conclude the case.
In all fairness, Star Trek has done this since like the middle of TNG. There's a reason Treknobabble became so infamous
I hate stp lol
i don't. simply don't care about it to hate it.
Hey Stone Temple Pilots was a great 90-'s band. LOL
lol I read your comment as "I had stp"...sexually transmitted picard? yikes
Just like with modern Doctor Who, his sonic screwdriver became a magic wand, where in classic Who it did have its limits.
I'm a Doctor Who fan, but even I get annoyed by the inconsistency of the sonic screwdriver. One episode, he's saying it can only work on electrical devices. The next episode, he's banishing an entire race of aliens from Earth with it.
I know that technology marches on irl, and we have to have some leeway in keeping a sci-fi franchise consistent with that, but Picard is really just another case of ignorant, selfish people who just want to make everything about spectacle, and they don't care how they go about that. They'd sooner gut the entire franchise and fill it full of shitty candy like a Piñata.
The moment you start throwing shit like "you have to use your imagination" into the mix with a show that tried its best to stay true to science, then you end up with Space fantasy. That's not inherently bad, but the way they're going about it is.
“You have to use your imagination” and add as background music "Just My Imagination" by The Cranberries.
I can almost suspend my disbelief in picard just by the sheer talent of the actors but at some points it's like "did they really think this was a good idea"
I stop myself from going insane by thinking all these new shows are all happening in different timelines where canon is completely different.
Where can i find the whole interview?
You could do a RUclips search for
DESIGNING THE WRATH OF KHAN - FEATURETTE.
It was one of several superb features that came with my DVD copy of TWOK. Joe Jennings is one of several important people (from Shatner and Montalban, to director Nick Meyer and producer Harve Bennett, etc) to appear in the featurette. Jennings might also have appeared in other features, and similar searches might produce similar results.
Live long and prosper.
An excellent featurette: ruclips.net/video/w_2X8zfxvDk/видео.html
Now imagine that the creators of Star Trek: Picard would use all of that amazing special effects technology to make a good Star Trek show. We can only imagine, though.
Is that what the final space battle really looked like? Wow, that's terrible.
worse than space invaders. just a cgi mess. everything moves around like gnats...
What Joe Jennings did right is to approach Star Trek as a pulp novel series, where there are basic methods and conventions to telling a story as well as making sure it will relate to the audience before relating to its own fictional world(s). What modern showrunners do wrong is passively demand, “can we put in more CGI?”
It's such a shame that all the hope for the future has been killed in favor of yet another 'dark and edgier' generic scifi series, just like Galactica reboot.
The difference is that the remade BSG had stories, conflicts and resolutions. STD or STP do not have anything to offer, except mindless idiocracy.
I don't it's that tbf, DS9 was dark and edgy.
Galactica was a masterpiece
@@anonymoushypersphere9093 Ah for sure. I did enjoy the Galactica reboot, but at the same time, that series kinda built the foundation for the hack frauds that cannot write anything but dark and edgy stories.
The hardworking & Respectable composure of the old Trek vs The modern, coddled & entitled cynicism of today’s Trek.
"You have to use your imagination" 🤮 🤮 🤮
*Imagines her in the brig of the old enterprise*
Heeeey this DOES work!
I imagine I´d done something else than to watch the first two episodes of "Star Trek - Picard" and "Star Trek - Discovery".
Won´t get back that time, but have the best memorys and always 42 Minutes of time to watch *Star Trek* "the las milenials".
So I mean ST The Next Generation; ST DS9 ,ad at least ST Voyager.
With Voyager, the last peaces of Geene Roddeberrys *STAR TREK* died and now they pick over the bones of the corpse, feels like a bit of necrophilea. RIP ´ol Star Trek!
I agree with the theory, but that ship sailed in season 3 of TOS. Roddenberry left. Suddenly, sensors could see anything and Spock was smart enough know Brahms’ handwriting on sight. (Requiem for Methuselah)
Jeez, those Picard sound effects must have come from an app 😂
Shutout to the Expanse for keeping the science in fiction, a series that was probably half of the budget of Picard.
my dude, the expanse was kinda expensive, worth every buck though 🤑
Very good point about the imagine the fix and the romulan scanner, totally beyond the realm of belief even for a future 400 years from now.
I just want carpeting back in The Federation. How is making all the interiors of the ships cold metal an upgrade?
Yeah. And in the future they would have carpets that clean themselves. On a warship I can understand having things a bit more "functional" in design, but on a science/exploration/combat hybrid I'd expect stuff to be more comfortable.
Imaaaaaaginaaaaation *spongebob rainbow*
UhUh Teletubby popo
`Don´t know why, but I had to XD
Old Star Trek: Science Fiction, had established rules
Old Star Wars: Fantasy set in space, while magic was a thing, still had established rules
New Star Trek: lol do whatever
New Star Wars: lol do whatever
The crazy thing was that in TNG they admitted they used the tricorder too much as a MacGuffin and could have easily done better with the story. Now its like the 60s Batman, for whatever reason you've got shark spray on you to solve any random problem you run across, no need to explain how such nonsense happened or do anything more than magic to fix it.
The other thing is that the crew had to work together. Engineering problem? Geordi or O'Brien solves it. Diplomacy? Riker or Picard. Need someone to fight for you? Worf's always ready. Star Trek today. We have deeply complex engineering problem we need to fix: Burnham. We have a complex science problem we need to fix: Burnham. We have a complex touchy political subject we need to deal with: Burnham. You could replace everyone else with cardboard cutouts and have the same story because the only person doing anything is Burnham.
A lot of Star Trek and Star Wars comments. Here's why Star Wars is not really science fiction. Science fiction establishes a premise based on science and then extends the premise. This is a framework. You can tell the entire story of Star Wars without science.
Once upon a time, there was a kingdom that was ruled by an evil wizard. People rebelled behind a beautiful princess who was captured by a knight in black armor, but her two companions escaped and were sold into slavery to a farmer. The farmer's nephew helped them deliver a secret message to an old wizard who talked about magic. They realized the princess was being held captive in a castle. They hired a pirate ship to take them there. They escaped with the princess and the old wizard died in sword fight. Then they came back and destroyed the castle by going in through the sewers and blowing it up. Oh, and the pirate has a talking bear.
I tried so hard to love Star Trek Picard, I gave discovery a couple episodes means was done, but Picard, I binged the first season, I tried so very hard to love it, but damnit you keep removing my nostalgia goggles with your videos lol
The videos on this channel are stupendously good! I hope that one day in the future, there will be no trace left of 'new Trek', other than these videos.
If Futurama is accurate, by the 23rd century, Star Trek will have become a full blown religion. I suppose wars will be fought to destroy New Trek, and its fans will go underground, waiting until the day the 'Son of Roddenberry' (Kurtzmann) will return to lead them in a crusade against the Old Trek unbelievers, in their fine châteaux, who will [insert hack writing etc.]
In “When the Bough Breaks” Wesley uses an imagination wand to sculpt. A lot of the things you’re nitpicking in Picard are commonplace throughout Trek.
Yeah, people forget about this but there were tons of ludicrous things in old Trek. But I would say thats the advantage of having a more serialised show, individual bad episodes feel disconnected and forgotten from the whole. Ongoing stories can tell grander plots, but the weaknesses become much more apparent.
We should learn from our history and not repeat it.
1. TNG isn’t ’old Trek’.
2. Anything Wesley touched, thought, said or imagined is invalid and should be erased. He is the Adric of the Trek universe. The Poochy.
"OlDeR tReK wAs MoRe ReAlIsTiC"
Me: "laughs in Warp Drive, Transporters, Replicaters, Phasers, and every alien being humanoid despite having evolved completely separately from humans"
They did address the last thing though.
I've never seen that Riker clip from the end... Is that a TNG blooper?
yes . from season 4 gag reel
Major Grin I thought somehow you used your magic mojo stp devices on Riker 😂
is there gonna be a season TWO of picard?
Sadly they announced a second season of STP while season 1 was still airing.
@@whos-the-stiff who knows, somehow they might redeem it.unless patrick dies
Science fiction is imagining what could be real, and making a believable alternative using the rules of our reality.
If you just poof things outta nowehere, it's fantasy.
And whether it's fantasy *or* sci-fi, explain it. That's just good worldbuiling and setting the foundation for your viewers to be immersed and understand the content.
Reliant is still my favorite ship second only maybe to the bird of prey. Both have distinct silhouettes
It really just comes down to intelligence and thoughtfulness doesn't it? The people that made old Trek were intelligent, educated in many things, and thoughtful. They were sci-fi fans that read a ton of sci-fi books. The people who make new trek aren't very smart, educated only in film and TV, thinking tires them out after 2 minutes, and they've barely read or seen any sci-fi in their lives.
And this is the result.
Not really. It comes down to no one having any vision. Everyone is just glad to be working but they have so little passion that they would rather just hurry up and write the easiest thing at hand than put in the work to write what they necessarily have to write. Hence why Picard was basically just Mass Effect and Discovery season 3 is a series whose name I cannot remember where the starship fuel was alive all along and got revenge on the people who were consuming it.
I don't know if you've really watched much TOS, but it was about as blunt an instrument as you could muster. Heavy-handed, simplistic metaphors which were about as subtle as those a child might come up with, and as philosophically as mature as a can of cheez-whiz.
AM I the only one who thinks The Orville is more Star Trek than any of the new STAR TREK?
"You have to use your imagination," because the writer doesn't have one of his own. Story telling should be the first priority. Arthur C. Clarke's third law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic," was never intended to suggest that magic could replace technology in science fiction. Magic is the refuge of someone who doesn't know how to tell a story - "It happened, it makes no sense, accept it, and move along." When you must invent a new "technology" for every storyline, you suck as a writer, unless you're doing a collection of short stories.
I agree with the sentiment of your comment, but I don't agree that magic is used only by writers who don't know how to tell a story. Good fantasy writers have rules just like good science fiction writers. If magic in stories didn't have limitations, then there would be no plot or obstacle to overcome. This is in no way a defense of Kurtzman's anti-Trek, just saying that's a bit of a strange strawman.
I saw 2:06 and I just immediately thought of, "It's so dense, every single image has so many things going on..."
That's one of the things I really appreciated about TNG--"technobabble" actually sounded plausible to my inner "twelve-year-old armchair physicist". There's only so much condescending hand-wavium, "oh, it's just sciency--you wouldn't understand" that I can take before my suspension of disbelief faulters. I'm tired of Hollywood treating me like an idiot. I mean, really: make an effort, for Pete's sake!
But then they would have to do some work to make what they say plausible. Real scientists pay attention and comment on what popular sci-fi shows say and do. Heck my friends who are really math smart for fun check figures in shows if they are mentioned. This would require the writers to expend effort on something other than the "message", it's easier to just say 'use your imagination '.
Star Treks realism goes even further.
I visited a friends Physics Readings somewhat regularly and this Professor is not unknown. He wrote several Books about the Physics in Football, James Bond and Trek and he would regularly show clips and do a deep dive. Very entertaining and informative.
Now teleportation is something that is theoretically impossible, because there is a certain degree of which atoms will get mixed up. It is minor, but large enough to kill complex organisms. This variable got a name I forgott, but in an TNG or DS9 Episode, O'Brian mentioned that a certain buffer was destroyed, referencing this very variable.
Or when in VOY Checotay went back in time to the first time Janeway got the Voyager, her Admiral Tutor asked her a physics-question, which is a hard one and the Prof had to think about it, but Janeways answer was correct (alltho the question was asked kinda weirdly, so there was "room for interpretation")
Even how Warp works, all is based on Physics theorems
The Heisenberg compensator 👍
The way I see it, there's two sides to the Trek fandom:
The REAL TREK FANS, who understand the nuances and subtleties of old Trek and have been a part of the fandom since before STD trash
And the FAKES, who insist on blowing up everything they can because the wait between Star Wars movies is too long, and tried to get on board the franchise only AFTER STD was puked out.
Now, if the real fans want to survive and preserve what little dignity Trek has left, we need to mame our grievances known to the Fake Trek fans. We've got to separate and expel them from our franchise if there'd any hope of survival left.
I hope there's still hope. But I think we really need to make ourselves known to the producers. They need to know we are the real audience and we are not only "still" around, but as I heard Nana Visitor point out, there are tons of new fans of pre-2009 Trek still being made today, via netflix and the internet.
+J. S. There really is no hope left, at least none that I can see. The only way I'd be persuaded to come back is if the entire STD staff were blacklisted from new Trek for the rest of their lives.
This includes "SIR" PUTRID STEWART and that Fake Musician Jeff Russo (more like Jeff Russkie), and anyone willing to associate with Alex KUNTzman and his terrorist cabal.
That will never happen, though. And I loathe it more with each day that passes.
Star Trek fans: how dare you ruin my show with this trash stapled onto it!
Stargate, Star Wars, Ghostbusters, Terminator, and Doctor Who fans: first time?
But really tho, there is very little hope unless we stop the cultural revolution in its tracks.
Let me know how one does that. Because to my knowledge nobody has stopped that stone rolling downhill once it got going - you just had to wait for it to roll itself out.
@@axenledgie1423 There's always some hope. It may not work, but it's worth a try:
www.change.org/p/cbs-remove-alex-kurtzman-and-secret-hideout-from-all-star-trek-projects
I never realized I would miss TNG/DS9 style phaser sound effects. They gave the Defiant pulse phaser cannons in order to up the cool factor. Now Trek is basically Star Wars.
LOL Everyone in this comment section just keeps dunking on Star Wars. Come on, guys, there was a time when they both were good...
@@thegodofalldragons I love Star Wars. I am a big fan of both franchises. I like them for different reasons. Star Wars has always been a space cowboy and space monk with a sword story while Trek has always been more serious science fiction. It's sad to see current Trek "spiced up" in order to make it less "nerdy". I liked the nerdiness
I really appreciated that aspect of the classic Treks. Sure it's sci-fi, but they really made an effort to put in the research and make the science and tech seem believable. Kids grew up wanting to be engineers because of characters like Scotty and Laforge. All of that is absent from these new Treks with idiotic concepts like imagination wands and temporal video scanners. Almost as though it's being written by and for idiots.
I worked 10 years as a Film Projectionist and during the whole time while troubleshooting computers, server, networks, projectors, i felt like Scotty and Laforge. Watching them growing up, gave me tons of problem solving skills that i was able to make a career out of. Current Sci-Fi, feels so lazy, tech does all the work and it feel like the crew can't do anything, they feel more like END USERS of a product, rather then developers and engineers.
2:05 and the best award for cinematography goes to...the 30 year old something idiot that likes to hit the duplicate object button inside of the 3D program. NOT
😔😔😔
You have to use your imagination to make STP or STD remotely watchable. Thankfully for us Major Grin is on the job!
Well done sir!
It's something we recognize from real life..the OCARINA OF TIME
Now Star Trek has more space magic in it than Warhammer 40k.
To be fair, the laser scanners and projectors used during the investigation of what happened in the room before, is consistent with the framework of present day tech as a base. Scanners & holography generally work like that and if you give it 5-10 years, you will have AR and scanners with that level of capacity.
It was stupid because they said the romulans scrabbed that room of evidence so it wont work yet it could show everything up to that moment but if they scrabbed everything it doesnt make sense
STP is the most disappointing show of all time. Thanks for the videos!
Yep, exactly this. It can be the most crazy thing, but if you base it on what we know in science, it makes it believable. If you base it on something magical or that has no believable aspect on how it functions, well, it goes to the realm of space fantasy and not science fiction.
For example, in the beginning they could say "you have to use your imagination", but if later on they explain how it actually works, something like "it actually scans brain waves and then translate it into a visual representation of what you are thinking" or whatever, there, it becomes science fiction again. Because they explain the concept of how it works in a scientific way. It's not something that "just happens because imagination", it's something that happens because of a set of rules based in science. If they keep saying "just use your imagination and wave the thingy", it keeps being just a magic thingy that does things.
"You can't do anything you want to, just because it's science fiction. Otherwise it wouldn't be believable."
-----------------
"Yo guys, what if the transporter split Kirk in half and there's like a good Kirk and an evil Kirk!"
"But why would the transporter do that?"
"Who cares, I've this whole Ying Yang theme I want to use."
"Ah sure throw it in. But after this we're doing strictly believable things with the series from here on out. Like scantly clad women trying to steal Spock's brain."
Thiiiiissss
Exactly. Why can nobody admit Star Trek was never Hard Sci-Fi ?
Use your imagination: imagine if all of Kurtzman Star Trek never exist
star trek has sunk below Harry Potter level of realism
Haha that was priceless at the end Rikers trippy smiley face lol thumbs up Major Grin.
Honestly I HATE this new style of CGI being used. As far as I remember this shit first started being used in BSG:Blood&Chrome. Then Disney StarWars, JJ's StarTrek, STD, and now this.
The CGI is far too frantic and hugely cheesey looking, it's not "believable" space combat. I also hate how they KILLED the LCARS computers with stupid holographic screens, and butchered the computer voice/personality that ST:VOY last used. And the sound effects are low tier annoying.
Probably had to pay licensing fee to get LCARS to.
Fucking companies abusing copyright...
@@Pyxis10 You realize these companies have enormous wealth to settle it out in favor of the fanbase but won't do it ..or listen-to literally anything.
and nBSG did amazing space battles that worked within the framework of the world and were simple enough to keep track off...
But the simple reason why the voice isn't there anymore is because Roddenberry's widow died in 2008, and she was the voice for the computer throughout Trek. (and played a couple other roles as well)
Wait... did Picard also steal Thargoids from Elite Dangerous along with everything else they stole? Cuz those flower shaped things look an awful lot like thargoids...
I really miss star trek!!!
"So what's your idea for the space battle, Alex Kurtzman and crew?"
"How much shit can fit onto the screen at once with a budget of $1500?"
I would love to go back in time and run the fungus drive theory past Gene Roddenberry. Then I’ll suggest they use sonar in space to detect cloaked vessels they can already detect. 🙂
I loved that part in the movie. Oh no, the Klingons have a ship that can fire while cloaked (which usually wasn't possible for balancing reasons and explained with power draw)
We have an enemy that got around the major weakness they had. But that is new tech, so stuff isn't ready for mass production and the prototype still has issues to be ironed out. We can exploit those issues.
Even in Nemesis. Oh no, that shiip can fire while cloaked and the cloak is "perfect" what should we do. Oh, on hit the cloak has issues. Fire a broadside around and if you see something happening, shoot there.
Technology has a reason to exist and weaknesses. The warp drive was never the fastest FTL drive across franchises, but that meant that places had distance to each other and the stereotypical "the Enterprise is the only ship in range" comes into play. Can't just instantly bring in the fleet as deus ex machina. That way there is tension, because resources are limited and the characters have to figure out a way to overcome the odds and succeed.
I used to watch your 'alternate ending' videos waaaay back, good to see you're still making videos! They banned a lot of your channels didn't they?
Most of it was reuploaded check out the channel Grin Room for all the playlists . Also making reviews now from the channel nitpicking nerd
@@NitpickingNerd That's great! I'll be sure to sub