Peter van den Berg builds the 8 inch batch box rocket mass heater - excerpt from "Better Wood Heat"
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- richsoil.com/heat Erica starts out by explaining why a lot of people like the batch box style of rocket mass heater. The door that allows you to load wood into the stove makes it a familiar aspect that folks will be used to. It's very sililar to any other wood stove, fireplace or cooking stove. Until recently, the J-tube style has been preferred because the construction of a masonry stove with a door is a technical challenge.
The first thing they do is build a dry fit base so they can cut bricks if they need to be shaped. This is done before they are adhered together. The design should have a layout that allows for the strongest bond over the length of the build. Before being fit, this particular stove was turned so that it did not stick out into the middle of the room.
The bricks are bonded together and then the other essential pieces of the stove are put into place. Then we see Tim Barker doing some metal work for the batch box rocket mass heater. He explains how he's creating a piece for the P-channel, which is a secondary air intake for the batch box stove.
Back with Peter in the office, we see him fitting the barrel for the stove and then we jump to a view of the inside of the batch box. The fire is lit and very quickly we see how well it draws air into the burn chamber. At this point the top of the first barrel is already reaching 400 degrees. There's a very beautiful view of the fire burning with a glass top. A sideways burning fire always seems so strangely pretty.
We wrap up with Erica as she does and overview of the stove. He really nailed it in his calculations for heating the space and managing the flue temperatures. Paul chimes in to mention that the great thing about this particular stove is that it burns faster, hotter and can hold much more wood than other rocket mass heaters. The batch box rocket mass heater only needs about 45 minutes of burn time to heat the space that it's located in. He once again repeats the notion that it's a much more user friendly stove and so it's more likely to be used regularly and used correctly.
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I love Paul, so awesome
My guess is that you attempted to say that you love this build? :)
Interesting. I can see why people are more comfortable with this more familiar style. I do like the j-tube RMH, though.
Plotskateer checking in! Great stuff.. I think the future for RMH is heading this way, Batch box systems & stratification chambers these 2 are probably the most awesome developments for last years..would be really cool seeing these 2 fully implemented in next innovators event on a full scale RMH for a standard home. Old school Cob and J tube are great and will always be there(and should) for the right situations, i still think though batchbox and stratification chambers are the future! Stuff Matt W is doing is great, would be great to see Ernie and Erica moving this direction too hopefully they wont get stuck with only oldschool RMHs. Great stuff Paul!
thanks to my patreon peeps for getting my youtube engine running again patreon.com/pwvids
do you answer comments?
batch box will be the future of rocket mass heaters. at the moment, j-tube is still king. the problems in the past have been: a good door can triple build time. I think the "casserole door" solves this. Next is that you need an inch gap at the back, at the front and along the top. Folks used to conventional wood stoves are not aware of this, so it ends up being an issue.
paul wheaton
I used a door and frame from an abandoned stove, allow for expansion and seal with fire rope. It's screwed to the bricks.
The screws into the bricks, or the stuff where you lay something like plumbers tape into the mortar, we have seen those attempts fail over and over in time. Getting the steel wrap around the masonry seems to be the only solution that stands the test of time. Although we think the new casserole door will also do well.
Screwed into the brick.
The frame is still solidly held in place, I've had it off a few time for adjustment inside.
I run the stove two or three times a day due to it being small, on a boat and drafts being a cold reality.
So it gets a fair amount of heat cycling.
This is my third door mounting and I think the thick rope gasket and expansion space means not so much movement is applied to the fixings.
Third door mounting in three years,
This video didn't really show us how the door attaches and works.
There seems to be some less than ideal problems with the batch box however, I like the idea of a shorter burn time and a more conventional firing process.. i think the problems can be over come with a metal frame like you how shown. Great info!
Peter van den Berg? A name can't be much more Dutch than that. I'm a Dutchie myself and looking into rocket mass heaters as an alternative to the gas heaters we use currently.
Eise Baerends He could also be a South African.
if you are gonna build a rocket mass heater, will you build batch box or j-tube or something else?
Batch box if I can.
Batch Box for the shop.
I have Kuznietsov stove - it initially heats up slowly but it holds the heat well over 24 hours.
Probably J tube with an eye to convert it to a batch box after the first heating season if the J tube requires too much tending, or if as you mention the casserole lid door ends up making batch box a simple setup. Without welding tools or experience, the J tube would be the easiest to construct for now.
have done both in the past...will be going with batch box from here on out. especially with the casserole door!
do you think this "smash" inspires people to buy the 4-dvd set?
I missed this, I commented above. I've seen quite a few creatives offering content I would like to purchase but many are doing it via DVD. My household has four laptops and not one of them has a DVD player. I have teenagers who have pushed us to upgrade. We no longer have a T.V. service. If we watch a movie we stream on Netflix, Amazon Prime or Apple T.V..
I would have to buy a DVD player to watch a DVD.
Paul also offers a streaming version and digital download option, so you aren't tied to just physical media.
yes, i love the smash videos! i was so hungry for video content since i read about batch boxes a few years ago on the donkey forums...now I can watch! I also bought the DVDs...but this is great to show or send to people as well.
After watching masonry heater videos, it's apparent that the rocket mass heater is the poor man's form of the same thing. The difference is that in my area rocket mass heaters aren't yet township approved. Which also means my insurance company wouldn't approve it. I'll keep checking with the township
Seems to me you could just build yourself a masonry heater with some enhanced features.
Honestly, you DO see a lot of welders who love slapping together a rocket stove, just to hear it roar. But the last thing you want if you're doing it right is a metal burn chamber and riser. That all needs to be firebrick.
So what I'm saying is that if you want your RMH, then approach it as a mason! You can replicate the riser and "barrel" with bricks, and you can send the flu gases on a detour in your masonry hearth. From the city's perspective, you just wanted a really big masonry hearth! The city's not going to consult with you on whether you have air passages undeeer the stone hearth, is it? It'll just come out and see the externals, check its boxes, and move on.
Anyway, it just seems like you could do it in town and be insured if you made it LOOK like another ostentatious hearth. I'd even use brick for the outside air to the fire. Just have it all mapped out.
I've been kicking around the idea of conventional-RMH hybrid, for quicker starts, but maybe also to spoof inspectors. They want 300 degrees at the roofline, which you're not going to get if you're using RMH. It's just not that hot at the exit point. I just kinda want the conventional option, because I'm suspicious of the J-Tube design at start-up. I'm confident it works once you get it rolling, but it can take some doing to push that cold air out in the morning. A straight-up chimney and a strategically placed damper or two, maybe you get around the awkwardness of start-up.
you said, not to use metal for the inner construction. was there metal that was used in this video.
interestingly. boiler manufacturers who use 3/4" plate. have an operational temperature of 3000 Fahrenheit.
Metal in the burn tunnel doesn't last long, the metal used in this system isn't in a vulnerable spot.
Nice job on the stove. Would like to make one for myself if I get the time this year. Any more information would be appreciated from you Sir. Thanks too.
heaps of info on the dvd richsoil.com/wood-heat.jsp
Can a small cast iron stove be used for the batch box? I have an old Jotul 602 C that has a 5" flue. Could a heat riser be installed on top, or is there an issue with the design? I was thinking about using a small oil drum for a heat riser, then possibly a bell just below that. Just curious.
Maybe you could have oxygen in above the burn box, with that insulated riser. Kind of odd to think about having it hotter away from the main box. Not sure it even would be.
Paul are you offering your videos via download? We have 4 laptops in the house and no DVD players in the bunch, if we watch something on t.v. it's streaming. I like this batch style, I currently have an old pot belly in my shop. It does a poor job heating and eats wood like a camp fire.
Yes, we offer hd streaming and tiny download. permies.com/wiki/63837
Thanks for posting this helpful article - if it burns faster, and hold more wood, does it need to burn more wood to keep the room warm for the same amount of time an ordinary rocket mass heater ? How do they compare ? Have you a video about the comparison?
:) you did see that this is an excerpt from a full size movie, right?
I see Peter placing bricks on the concrete floor and then putting a piece of something on them to form the base of the stove. Any idea what that material is, or what can be used there?
Looking for guidance and help? I want to build my own house, and then greenhouses, and might want to incorporate one of these. Eventually I just want to download your most recent build or someone else's, looking for the best design to date. I also wish to improve upon those designs as that is who I am, lol. Any recommendations out there?
Eventhough I don't buy into these being 98% more efficient, I think they are cool 😎 and LOVE doing things myself.
batch box heaters easily meet the code descriptions of a masonry heater, right? but did i read that the casserole door would disqualify it from being considered a masonry heater?
would this work using a wall as mass instead of a bench?
are there any figures that will/could equalize the draft. say, when water tubes are added for hot water . or maybe even steam.
Can it still be used for cooking
close. now for the placing of an oven that can be. temperature controlled.
Mervyn Shute did you not know about Paul's Rocket Oven Kickstarter?
www.kickstarter.com/projects/paulwheaton/rocket-ovens-feature-length-documentary?ref=8vt5gs
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domestic in- road. what is the second drum for. any temperature readings for this, please.
I need a rocket mass heater for multiple floors in my house I have five floors I have no gas heat so I can tap into that flu pipe as the hot air goes up through the flow pipe every floor I can reroute it with another rocket mass heater on a smaller version on every floor has anyone done something like this ?
Can a Batch Box Rocket Stove get up to sauna temperatures?
I love this design! but I keep wandering, Does the vitroceramic glass top reduce the eficiency of the combustion? what is the thermic conductivity of that glass? doesn't loose heat in the primary chamber? any important consideration to have in mind before trying to build one????
You did see that this was an excerpt from a full movie, right? richsoil.com/wood-heat.jsp
@@paulwheaton No hehehehe I didn´t, I do know about your dvds, but I didn't knew this was an excerpt of those, are all the answers to my cuestions on those really cool DVDs of yours? hehehehehehe Cheers from a new permaculture project from Spain!
@@Sacko7 You climbed the top of the mountain to ask a guru a question and his response was to buy the DVD set and all your questions will be answered! The same "nature friendly" people bitch about corporate greed.
@@dronepilotflyby9481 Yap, I was expecting another kind of help from the "montain guru", specially as we are a new project and we must choose carefully what we should buy or we shouldn't. But is alright, there are in Spain people that care seriosly the permaculture's ethics and are coming to help us building our stove without buying their DVD's pack 😂
Why not just use a wood stove with a rear exhaust instead. Then wrap the exhaust and the mass?
Wood stove is difficult because it is the refractory material PLUS the refractory riser in a rocket stove that creates the intense heat and initial draft and draw. The iron of a wood stove cools the "burn" immediately. I think it's POSSIBLE to use a wood stove if the "venting" goes immediately into an insulated or firebrick "riser" of 4 to 4 feet to "really draw." A large riser may make up for the inital problem. Also, in the wood stove the baffel or "push gases" toward the front should be removed or cut in half.
Guys what is the name of the song at 0:30?
Yes, great design, but they did not show how primary and secondary air work on this one, so we don't fully know what they showed us.
You saw that this video is an excerpt from a full length movie, right?
Yes and I own the set of DVDs by the way. I don't remember that stove from the DVDs but I'll check them again soon, as I have to check the part where Erica talks about the 3 ratios for the lengths of the elements of rocket stoves, before building a new one next week.
So do you know what song it is you guys put at 0:30?
@@o00oZu1o00o something by formidable vegetable
OK thanks, I'll find it this way...
Btw I loved the DVDs, except boom squish, because I hoped we were going to learn how to build the systems that feature steam, but mainly we learned that it was not a good idea unless you're an expert, to play with steam... So I was disappointed by that. But still, I learned stuff from this DVD too.
Overall, I learned what I needed from the series, which was super important to me. I was really looking for the knowledge I got from them, so I'm really happy I got them...
Where can I get specifics about engineering, to understand this process n to develop my own?
You did see that this was part of a bigger dvd set, right? woodheat.net
Via the 1,000 youtube videos.
Paul- Are details about the important riser tube included in the digital download. Are all dimensions/materials & know how on the detailed video for sale etc. Do you think i can use the 8 inch version to heat an old gas water cylinder held above the riser tube (a vertical empty flue pipe surrounded by a water jacket of about 150 litres water). Where can i get the download version, specifically relating to Peter's batch box design only.
No. Answer is too big to fit in a youtube comment. That does not exist.
What information is available please on the DVD set other than already seen on you RUclips video? Only interested in help with the 8 inch batch box build. thanks
This is 25 minutes of content edited down to 4 minutes. So, like this, but 24 minutes more.
Be a good chap and let me just buy 'DVD 4: Innovators Event'. Possible ?
You can get all four dvds for $38. It seems pretty freaky cheap already. So I guess my response is "Be a good chap and just buy the 4-dvd set."
Is this fundamentally different from a masonry heater?
Far cheaper. Far faster to build. Has the riser which burns more completely. A rocket mass heater steals a lot of design from masonry heaters.
Thanks for the reply, Paul. I hope there are more people who can install these. We may want one in a couple of years.
They are pretty easy to build, you can take a workshop from multiple places that takes you through the process so you get a handle on the process and would make you comfortable with building your own.
No... but one is $20,000
peter van den berg
Haha a non trivial technical problem .. is that American for a cnt of a challenge 😉😁🙏
チャンネル登録させて頂きました。楽しんでますね～！1000人超え目指してます！
why does Erica sound like she's always asking a question?
how do you contact? permies .com. nowhere to leave a message
dedicated people would partially respond to comments. fact.
peter van den berg