Random Wire Antenna Mix-61 Toroids Tested
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2023
- In this video, we compare FT-140 Mix 61 to Mix 43 toroids for 9:1 Ununs used in 9:1 Random Wire Ham Radio Antennas.
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Thanks SmokingApe, I enjoyed your appearance on Ham Radio DX, it was a good laugh, regardless of what they say, some amateur radio people do have a sense of humour. 🤣 It's easy enough for anyone to make both, if were fussy.
Haha, we had a good time hanging out in Dayton 👍
Very cool to see the tests and differences.
Thanks for checking it out Mike 👍
*Thank you for keeping us educated* Great review.
Thanks for watching JT 👍
Cool comprehensive overview of both cores.
Thanks Dennis 👍
Great vid Ape. 👍
Thanks Dan 👍
Another great comparison from professor APE!
Thanks Chuck, glad you liked it 👍
Top notch again Mr Ape. Your comparisons between the 2 types of material broadly compare to Evil Lairs work using 61 material for the EFHW. Its quite addictive this testing and more and more people are doing it which will only advance out understanding.
Hey Colin! I do enjoy the testing, I have a few more cores I want to test in the 9:1 config and then I may do some 49:1 tests. 👍
great video
Thanks Thump, getting a little tired of winding all these thangs!
Good analysis of the two cores. I guess it's all up to what are using it for, higher frequencies or lower to which core to use. There doesn't seem to be a one core fits all. Very good video. Answers my questions.
Thanks Ron, I agree there doesn’t seem to be a one size fits all 👍
Thanks 😁
Thanks Bob 👍
Great data. Many decades ago, (pre internet) saw an article looking at TX intermodulation degradation through ferrite cores. Might be something to try.
Interesting idea, thanks for the comment Tech 👍
Very interesting, I would not have thought to try 61 roids. I dont think id ever get on 160m, mainly looking at 40-10m.👍
Yeah, I’m mostly 40-10 myself 👍
My Roid, My Choice. Got it.
Right, it’s your roid… be proud of it 👍
The slightly lossier coil showing a slightly better SWR figures, some of the power that ought to be refelcted is being absorbed in the toroid. Not a lot, but not "none" either. Great video again.
Fair point and thanks for watching Stuart 👍
Great analysis Ape! I concur with your findings. I'm certain that 99% of the operators that watch this will be using under 100w of power, so the difference in mix types is minimal. HOWEVER, when using QRO the higher frequency 61 mix has a better thermal rating and this is generally true of the mixes with lower permeability.
73 OM 👍
I was just talking about this to someone privately. I wouldn't suggest the 43 on the low bands for just this reason, especially a 140.
better thermal rating, you're saying less heat?
@Dennis Bauer yes, higher the current temperature better it is.
De VU2RZA
Would be interesting to see the results if a 43 and a 61 were stacked together. Could it be the best of both worlds? Interesting. Thanks for the info. 73.
Might be need to try, but it could increase the loss.
That is a mistake.
#43 has a ui of 850 and #61 has a ui of 125.
It means the magnetic flux field lines from one core to the other would be obstructed by almost 1:7 ratio. Out of
850 lines from the core #43 only 125 lines would be passing the other side of the #61.
That doesn't make any sense.
De VU2RZA
Hey..thank you for what you do for us. Can you find a mouse pointer with a magnifier that you can hover over the small text of the program you use so we can read it?
Yeah, I’ll see what I can do. Thanks for the feedback 👍
Willing to throw a lot of rf through both to see how long until the swr rises? Not many videos on that.
I haven’t found a good way to do this test in a controlled way. But when I do, lookout! Thanks for watching Jay 👍
That does follow along with data sheet on type of core. keep in mind that on higher frequency's the stray inductance of your resistors will change the load a tad. just putting resistor right on VNA shows this. this is still a good comparison of the 2 cours. the stray inductance is the same on both cours. now in a different purpose like RF power amp using MRF 454 transistors . over 25 Mhz using a type 43 cour still works but makes a 2 and 3rd harmonics and the 43 cour heat up more. using 61 is better . even splitters and combiners on RF power amps . Ameritron HF RF power amp uses type 61 in output stages. old version uses 4X 2SC 2879. getting appx 500 watt PEP . that would be a outher test for the cores . put some RF power into them. use the nano VNA to check harmonics . this would take a non inductive resistor and a shielded enclosure with a output line tap . a lot of work . what you showed is a good basic test. also a power test would show heatting of core. 100 watt and down not much heating. FT8 may get warm but 1500 watt watch the core. I have seen them shatter at high power. enamel wire can RF arc. PTFE on high power. I have silver plated PTFE for high power RF. 73's
Thanks for the insight Robert!
Maybe you already did this and I just missed it, but could you do the same thing for various EFHW cores? I remember you doing a video comparing them, but don't remember seeing the efficiency table comparison presented as clearly as this video.
Hey Bill, I have a few videos on different cores as chokes and transformers. I will do more like this that include 49:1. Thanks for watching 👍
Well, done. Data is awesome! Would 240 cores matter much to the results of either mixes? Or is a mix a mix no matter the size?
I suspect the results would be similar. The size is generally more applicable to power handling and heat.
@@TheSmokinApe you are right
De VU2RZA
Interesting results. From the datasheets I would have expected significantly less losses in the 61er material compared to the 43. Also I wonder: Usually XL of your primary winding should be at least 4 times higher than the impedance you want to transfer (ARRL Handbook for Radio Communications 2020 17.32 and a lot of other literature). So about 200 Ohms. For a 43 you only need like 3 windings , but with the FT140-61 you need 6 , to get to 221 Ohms. Because 43 AL=885nH/N2 and 61 is AL=140. Secondary windings obviously both for both cores 3 times the primary winding. Did you change the windings or did use the same for both cores? From your results it looks like it had little disadvantages. But which really puzzles me.. there should be a huge difference in losses... anyway thanks for your work.
I used the same windings for both cores, thanks for adding the info from ARRL 👍
How many watts do you think is safe to run through the 61s? From 10 to 40M I'm really liking these efficiencies!
With these smaller 140 cores, you should be fine on 100w ssb. Likely 50-75w for digital modes 👍
👍
Thanks BA 👍
61 also can be run reaaaaaly hot
Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. Thanks for watching F11 👍
@@TheSmokinApe I had a 2xFT140 4:1 on my doublet, which would overheat and start to act up after a while on 300 watts, swapped in two FT140-61 and it never once complained. Got rather hot, but the SWR didnt shift a bit.
I have a few of the larger 240 mix 61 coes I am planning of testing out as well.
The curie temperature is higher with the #61 core.
But it doesn't mean that it can be run really hot all the time.
Undue heat in the core is wasted energy and you don't want it.
During mistuning or by accident temperature increase may be allowed for a short time.
If you are going to use higher power other than that is rated for a specific size you should select a next bigger size.
Ferrite cores ui might return to the original value after few such abuses like running hot or near to the point of saturation. But repeated and prolonged abuse must be avoided by all means.
Hope this helps.
De VU2RZA
@@subramanianr7206 of course, but it can be useful in an emergency. The extra overhead is why Chameleon and the like use 61 a lot.
Fifty two.....52?
I couldn’t find any 52’s in the t140 size, gonna have to wait for the 240 video.
@@TheSmokinApe I'll be watching, thanks for the effort in your videos, 73.
Thanks Lee 👍