37C3 - Operation Triangulation: What You Get When Attack iPhones of Researchers

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  • Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 101

  • @joecincotta5805
    @joecincotta5805 10 месяцев назад +63

    This talk just kept escalating! By the time we got to the end I was just in shock.

    • @JustJustSid
      @JustJustSid 10 месяцев назад +11

      My thoughts exactly. Every time I went "Damn that's crazy" it got crazier. The logistics alone that must be behind this attack is crazy to even think about, there is no way this wasn't done by a nation state attacker with very deep pockets. Absolutely mind boggling attack. Also mad props to Kaspersky labs for figuring all of this out. There are some crazy smart people involved on both sides of this.

  • @JWieg
    @JWieg 11 месяцев назад +49

    Absolutely amazing research and great work! And thanks for the recording ccc 🎉

  • @renakunisaki
    @renakunisaki 10 месяцев назад +86

    This is all extremely suspicious.
    Undocumented debug registers that require a hash? I heard somewhere the hash is related to ECC, so I can conceive of finding this by trial and error, but dang.
    Burning _two_ kernel exploits, and a Safari exploit from the kernel? They _really_ wanted to hide what they were doing. I guess they hoped people would see the Safari exploit and not think too hard about how it got executed in the first place.
    The payload is immensely complex, with many clever tricks, suggesting it was written by multiple talented people. The choice of target, and the steps it takes to avoid infecting wrong targets, absolutely reek of the attacker being Not Some Arsehole but rather a large organization...
    ...and then there's the fact that Apple silently removed those unused, undocumented functions that the exploit used in the font engine. Usually for a security update you warn people that it's important. Perhaps they weren't allowed this time?

    • @SionynJones
      @SionynJones 10 месяцев назад +11

      It's definitely not a debug. No one would design a debug system that required signing.
      The signature is computed using a sbox lookup table which some would need prior knowledge about. It's undocumented and would of not been discovered had these dudes not observed it with this malware.
      My best guess is coercion but who was coerced apple? Arm? and why Kaspersky? Let alone the possibility of other SoC being compromised.

    • @carnivorebear6582
      @carnivorebear6582 10 месяцев назад

      ​@@SionynJonesI've wondered if other ARM chips have this vulnerability. Even across vendors in x86 land there's a lot of overlap in undocumented instructions between Intel, AMD and VIA.

    • @MCasterAnd
      @MCasterAnd 10 месяцев назад +15

      The font thing didn't seem too suspicious, it's entirely possible that Apple saw this was causing crashes and decided to remove it. But the undocumented debug registers, especially the fact that they figured out they need to differentiate the attack a bit between different CPU's.. This reeks of an intentional backdoor

    • @rahulramteke3338
      @rahulramteke3338 9 месяцев назад

      Apple is in bed with all three letter agencies

    • @minirop
      @minirop 7 месяцев назад

      @@carnivorebear6582 When a vendor decides to create its own ARM chip (like Apple did), they still need to pass ARM's test suite and follow some rules, so could be.

  • @libenasukro
    @libenasukro 10 месяцев назад +30

    It must be maddening to be the architect and coders of something this brilliant, but never be able to discuss it. This is genius level stuff and yet not a word was leaked and they say this has been around for 4 years at least. That's serious discipline.

    • @sumo-ninja
      @sumo-ninja 10 месяцев назад +1

      Looks more like 10 years they are saying now

    • @jpphoton
      @jpphoton 2 месяца назад

      totally agree.

  • @julianbruns7459
    @julianbruns7459 10 месяцев назад +6

    crazy good talk! thank you. i didn´t understand much of the details but it was still super interesting

  • @szpl
    @szpl 10 месяцев назад +6

    44:20 Nice easter egg :D

  • @Th3Mag1c1an
    @Th3Mag1c1an 11 месяцев назад +84

    The person behind creating this would be one hell of a computer genius. How in the world does that person stay this much motivated? Maybe he gets a lot better pay than us. Causal NSA. They have more in store than we could imagine.

    • @seonor
      @seonor 11 месяцев назад +62

      Most likely this wasn't just one person, but several teams for each step, and some of the needed 0days might also have been bought from others.

    • @TheSwanies
      @TheSwanies 11 месяцев назад +18

      It's most likely an entire team of researchers

    • @vladislavivanov2511
      @vladislavivanov2511 11 месяцев назад +19

      This sort of thing isn’t a single person effort. There’s a good chance it’s a state actor too

    • @SadeN_0
      @SadeN_0 11 месяцев назад +18

      This whole thing could easily be something like $5-10 million in 0day black market value.
      that's a few dubloons to motivate a couple of people.
      kind of a smooth brain move to burn the whole chain on a security researcher's phone, at their workplace

    • @wr3ckr270
      @wr3ckr270 10 месяцев назад +10

      @@SadeN_0 Make it 500-1000 million. This is actually the worst nightmares coming true.

  • @TK3C
    @TK3C 10 месяцев назад +3

    Fascinating talk, thanks for sharing!

  • @Zatarra48
    @Zatarra48 11 месяцев назад +3

    Thanks again for the good presentation.

  • @jpphoton
    @jpphoton 2 месяца назад +1

    brilliant young lads. excellent presentation

  • @casgie
    @casgie 10 месяцев назад +16

    The complexity feels similar to Stuxnet

  • @alzaimar
    @alzaimar 10 месяцев назад +3

    I'm speechless. About the fact, the research and how cool it was presented.

  • @Lino1259
    @Lino1259 11 месяцев назад +8

    Crazy good talk! Up there with David Kriesel.

    • @wr3ckr270
      @wr3ckr270 10 месяцев назад +1

      True. David Kriesel level of talk.

    • @saferugdev8975
      @saferugdev8975 10 месяцев назад +2

      imo these guys are like 1-2 universes ahead on the technical level (im thinking compared to the printer scandal) but david has the charisma and confidence to make up for it and provide an overall equally interesting talk

  • @abwesend
    @abwesend 11 месяцев назад +6

    this was impressive, thank you!

  • @joaoalonso6942
    @joaoalonso6942 11 месяцев назад +26

    This attack is way too complex to be done by a joe schmoe. Imo, it seems to be government sponsored.

  • @ac12223
    @ac12223 11 месяцев назад +5

    This was crazy good

  • @TotoMacFrame
    @TotoMacFrame 11 месяцев назад +19

    Crazy. Not that I understand much of it, but how the hell do I calculate the has of a rendered triangle? And how does this lead to device fingerprinting?
    I imagine the hash of that triangle is different on each device, but how is this coming, technology wise?

    • @caiocc12
      @caiocc12 11 месяцев назад +11

      Probably just taking the rasterized result from the framebuffer and hashing that. With anti-aliasing, the target GPU may render it with an imperceptible change in a pixel color around the triangle's edge and that is enough.
      There are so many layers to that it's hard to believe it's not a backdoor.

    • @ralphorama
      @ralphorama 11 месяцев назад +6

      canvas fingerprinting is pretty common on the modern web, I know TikTok's web frontend uses it for tracking. BrowserLeaks says, "this technique relies on variations in how canvas images are rendered on different web browsers and platforms to create a personalized digital fingerprint of a user's browser."

    • @TyrHeimdal
      @TyrHeimdal 11 месяцев назад

      Just google "canvas fingerprinting", the techniques have been widely known for 10 years to uniquely fingerprint devices. It's still widely in use today, and mitigations will (still to this day) cause you to have worse performance on the interwebz.

  • @Dr-Zed
    @Dr-Zed 11 месяцев назад +15

    This makes iLeakage look like a joke

  • @wr3ckr270
    @wr3ckr270 10 месяцев назад +9

    Plot Twist: Apple themselves is behind this one.

  • @cybersamurai99
    @cybersamurai99 8 месяцев назад

    Amazing talk, scary stuff out there.

  • @blaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    @blaaaaaaaaaaaaa 11 месяцев назад +3

    makes me feel so dumb :P breathtaking work guyz!

  • @ttrss
    @ttrss 10 месяцев назад +4

    KHEm (NSA) Khem

  • @NeverGiveUpYo
    @NeverGiveUpYo 10 месяцев назад

    Just epic. Thanks for sharing.

  • @joecincotta5805
    @joecincotta5805 10 месяцев назад +14

    How many other obscure register mappings exist on all the soc around the world!? There is no such thing as security 😢

    • @prodbyfaith
      @prodbyfaith 10 месяцев назад

      That's why RISC-V is the future

    • @schlo9358
      @schlo9358 10 месяцев назад

      @@prodbyfaith what do RISC-V diffrently?

    • @carnivorebear6582
      @carnivorebear6582 10 месяцев назад

      ​@schlo9358 It's an open source architecture, unfortunately those in charge of the project are elitest and not interested in taking advantage of all those who would be willing to contribute.
      I think any open source FPGA implementation of a CPU core would be pretty secure though, no one will write the code to implement functionality which is unknown.

    • @GeorgeTsiros
      @GeorgeTsiros 3 месяца назад

      Yeah, because the ISA a CPU implements somehow guarantees to you that the chip has no other, unknown, undocumented, malicious functionality.

    • @GeorgeTsiros
      @GeorgeTsiros 3 месяца назад

      And you trust the FPGA... because... ?

  • @eltebux
    @eltebux 6 месяцев назад

    Crazy how such a sophisticated piece of attack has an MD5 hash in the mix…

  • @Versette
    @Versette 11 месяцев назад

    Very interesting presentation! 😄

  • @SionynJones
    @SionynJones 10 месяцев назад +6

    What I wonder is if any other arm based SoCs have this vulnerability?

    • @山田ちゃん
      @山田ちゃん 10 месяцев назад +2

      Very likely yes. Even Nintendo Switch has a hardware vulnerability regarding to the GPU cores being able to bypass PPL. I bet on other android phones that are not this wide spread there are even more vulnerabilities. Not to mention the kernel is open source (with the patches manufacturers applied). And I have heard if a few times when Samsung Exynos chips had vulnerabilities too.

    • @xCheddarB0b42x
      @xCheddarB0b42x 10 месяцев назад

      VaaS - vulns as a service.

  • @scilor
    @scilor 10 месяцев назад +5

    Love this QR: 44:11

    • @Silas_229
      @Silas_229 10 месяцев назад +1

      Now we not only have to recognize the youtube link but also the qr code at different levels of error correction

    • @Themoonisachees
      @Themoonisachees 10 месяцев назад

      @@Silas_229 dQwM and spotify's short-middle-short-tall are already burned in my memory for far longer than either spotify or youtube will exist

  • @SadeN_0
    @SadeN_0 11 месяцев назад +1

    Absolutely bananas

  • @k0in640
    @k0in640 9 месяцев назад +1

    can someone clarify why the attackers use two different kernel exploits?

  • @etziowingeler3173
    @etziowingeler3173 11 месяцев назад

    Thx for recording!

  • @xCheddarB0b42x
    @xCheddarB0b42x 10 месяцев назад

    This is incredible.

  • @JonathanHarkerYT
    @JonathanHarkerYT 10 месяцев назад

    I’m no expert on this, so sorry for my lack of knowledge. But I’ve seen many of these 0 days are reset by rebooting/restarting the phone/mac. Would it be a common an advisable practice to shutdown/reboot all devices once a day? Just like old computers and old phones. It would prevent their persistence and damage potential (I’m not wrong mistaken). Best regards and sorry again if something was misunderstood.

    • @V4ker
      @V4ker 10 месяцев назад +4

      It depends on how difficult it is to exploit a particular attack chain.
      If it's a more or less reliable 0-click like described in this video, you will annoy hackers by restarting the phone, but ultimately as soon as you do a restart they can just perform attack again right away.
      But for anything else, especially something that requires your interaction to be exploited, restarts once per day will be very effective.
      In general, if you think you might be targeted, it's a good measure, but not an ultimate one - and keep in mind that ultimate measures don't exist :)

  • @alienmajik
    @alienmajik 10 месяцев назад

    I wonder if they updated tinycheck to detect these IOC’s

  • @Davide73
    @Davide73 10 месяцев назад +4

    " there are no virus on apple "

  • @Vielpi
    @Vielpi 6 месяцев назад +1

    of course it was the NSA

  • @sbjf
    @sbjf 10 месяцев назад +4

    state actor?

  • @MewK_
    @MewK_ 11 месяцев назад

    Impressive!

  • @interested8430
    @interested8430 6 месяцев назад

    Where can I go to check my iPhone? I didn't catch what they said?

  • @saferugdev8975
    @saferugdev8975 10 месяцев назад

    plot twist: watching this talk will trigger the dead switch and deactivate exploit on your device

  • @DigDowner
    @DigDowner 10 месяцев назад

    Very interesting! I'm wondering, would you feel your phone 'inexplicably' heat up and see its battery drain faster when Apple Neural Engine analyzes thousands of images and files? Seems like a power-intensive process...

    • @jasopolis
      @jasopolis 10 месяцев назад +3

      I doubt it - this processing is also regularly done by iOS for legitimate purposes (e.g. being able to search photos by keyword like ‘beach’, OCR features in Photos, etc)

    • @carnivorebear6582
      @carnivorebear6582 10 месяцев назад +2

      The neural engine as a whole is a fairly small chunk of silicon relative to CPU/GPU, hence its power usage it's not going to be that noticeable heat wise. Would make some difference to battery life but not sure if it would be big enough to jump out as being fishy

    • @eagle56786
      @eagle56786 10 месяцев назад +3

      the processing has already been done

    • @wrakowic
      @wrakowic 10 месяцев назад +3

      But the analysis is done when the picture is taken, and results are saved as metadata right? Therefore there wouldn’t be additional mass processing.

    • @eagle56786
      @eagle56786 10 месяцев назад

      yes, exactly. the attackers just exfiltrate the metadata your iPhone has already processed, and store it on their end, for lack of a better term@@wrakowic​

  • @FreakAzoiyd
    @FreakAzoiyd 9 месяцев назад

    So how much does Apple pay for detailed information like that? It should be at least in the tens of Mio. USD range.

  • @ytfanboiii_exe7519
    @ytfanboiii_exe7519 9 месяцев назад

    I came here from the dopamine jailbreak 2.0 credits page

  • @kaiuweb974
    @kaiuweb974 11 месяцев назад +3

    Netter Rick-Roll ;)

  • @user-jn4rd1ks3z
    @user-jn4rd1ks3z 10 месяцев назад +1

    it's NSO new generation malware

  • @rob2rox
    @rob2rox 10 месяцев назад

    blue team ftw

  • @judgewooden
    @judgewooden 10 месяцев назад +3

    Title of video should be: Apple's backdoor in iphone exposed.

  • @TheIrishdriven
    @TheIrishdriven 10 месяцев назад

    No need for virus in apple completely open lol

  • @Blitzbogen
    @Blitzbogen 11 месяцев назад +9

    unfortunately very difficult to understand

    • @MCasterAnd
      @MCasterAnd 10 месяцев назад +8

      I found it quite easy

    • @Elijahh747
      @Elijahh747 7 месяцев назад

      ​@@MCasterAndthen write a poc

  • @OutbackCatgirl
    @OutbackCatgirl 10 месяцев назад +9

    homicidalwombat is a pretty banger email address ngl