@@hellspawnx3526 APO is intel Application Optimization feature which is supported by 14 th gen i9 and i7 you can look it up on google if want to know what it does
@@kymanihamilton3477 search “intel Application Optimization”. It’s an new and expanding technology which uses per application profiles to spread processing power across all P cores and all E cores evenly
@@hellspawnx3526 search “intel Application Optimization”. It’s an new and expanding technology which uses per application profiles to spread processing power across all P cores and all E cores evenly
No. Just use a PROPER cooling system! MoRa 420 in my case for 14900KS. I'll never understand why people think they can get maximum performance from high end CPUs with some crappy AIO.
The Efficiency Cores imo matters while gaming for back ground tasks while keeping games running smooth on the p cores = keeps the overall system smooth while gaming
They cause alot of issues thats for sure. I keep seeing so many posts about people saying ''disable cores'' or somthing when peoples games are stuttering. If you want an issue free experience, buy AMD
In some random games the cores utilized will hop from P to E cores causing stutters etc. not as common as windows updates, game updates, intel updates roll out. Basically unless you notice the issue don't bother
I observed similar weirdness - I compile stuff on my laptop and kaboom - it slows down in general. VCORE drops from 1.2v to 0.8xV. Windows becomes sluggish...but after some time...voltage goes up again and compilation speed get back to normal. For me - a thing to disable after unpacking laptop.
Do this test again while syncing all p cores and e cores at 1.36v LLC 6 with locked ratios and no c-states also at 1080p. What you are seeing is the ring downclocking with e-cores enabled. This will reduce the bandwidth and increase the latency between the memory and the cores. Also, at 1440p w/ 240hz+ the latency increase will come from the gpu not cpu.
If you had turned hyperthreading off you would have had a true comparison but since you left 8 hyperthreads on you already had 16 thread in the first place
No, they help. You have dedicated P cores that focus solely on gaming where as E cores do background tasks handle Windows 11 bloat and also help with gaming.
@@ALxdCr4ftPlays Personally, I tested around 15 games when I bought my 13900K and realized that if I stop all E-Cores, in some games I have an increase of 3-8 FPS and in others I no longer have stuttering, which for to me it makes E-Cores not "efficient" at all, and here I am strictly referring to games.
What version of the RTX 3080 TI do I need for the dragon Canyon 12 I nine I know it’s a 12 inch card but which version could you please help? If I can’t use a 3080? Can I use a 4074 example?
Well, seems like you should have tested at 1080p so you could remove the GPU bottleneck. And maybe set the power budget that your cooler could handle (I'm just hoping you are using a cooler that can dissipate 200w+). You also need to show the actual power usage so we will know if there is overclocking headroom or not based on our PSU and cooling situation. Seems like the point of this is deciding whether to buy a 200 quid 12700 or a 500 quid 14700. And it seems like you can save the dosh to spend on either a better SSD* or GPU. Heck that 300 is practically a GPU by itself if you can find a 6800XT or similar. *(I've only found maybe 5 PCIe 4.0 models worth the massive proce increase over a good DRAM Cache 3.0 drive, and the Silicon Power US75 is one of the cheapest, delivering almost 3,000MBps writes for /the entire drive/ in one sitting. As in it doesn't throttle back. I mean it will burst at 6k or whatever too, but it won't tank in real performance after the SLC cache goes away)
Enabling E-Cores will crash Control (the game) consistently in the Foundation DLC. And it causes major stutters in Samurai Warriors 5. Just in case anyone was wondering. I could replicate this on a latop 13900HX and a desktop 13700K.
I was very pleased to see the return of BENCH MARCUS :D I also was surprised to see that enabling e-cores does improve gaming performance slightly. It looks like Windows 11 has had enough time to mature and work well with Thread Director in order to make sure workloads get distributed correctly. That said, even Windows 10 can be tweaked to effectively bias heavier loads to the faster p-cores, so you still get some of the benefit.
I disabled them on my 14900k 4090 scar 18 laptop, not only has performance improved with ecores disabled but many microstutters resolved as well, for example in hogwarts legacy ecores on suffer from microstutters still, older games like Technomancer don’t even launch with ecores on, in addition tiny Tina’s texture preload is faster with ecores off, maybe it’s more apparent on laptops due to 330w limits.
Pretty much as expected - your +E results are mostly only a nudge above margin of error. Presumably the E cores are occasionally getting sent a discreet simple operation when the Ps are occupied but on the whole the threading control should mostly ignore them in demanding programs like games. Of course, it will always depend on the structure of the specific code...
I am not sure if this is useful anymore, but process lasso can force games to avoid efficiency cores, or force background processes to use efficiency cores more. It's possible to segment the processes. I'm uncertain because windows 11 may handle scheduling really well, or that there are some tests that showed that disabling e-cres reduced framerates a lot. I still believe a bit of tweaks is beneficial.
While I agree with you the 65watt full power draw is completely false lol, its power efficient but not as power efficient as the non X variant AMD CPUs
Intel needs to stop with their joke GPUs and AI bullshit and put all that money and resources back in their CPUs. They need their Ryzen moment. It's pretty sad how bad they fell off. It's like how AMD was before Ryzen, though not as bad but you get my point. They need a huge come back.
Yeah, recently a store employee told me that Intel is better because their cpu has 14 cores vs 8 cores from a Ryzen. There's two reasons why efficiency cores are used. Easier manufacturing and marketing. They've exhausted this option now, what's next? Apart from NPU.
@@yensteel 8 cores are more than enough for now if your just gaming. 14+ is needed when you do other things,like encoding videos etc. But Intel really needs to get back on track, I switched back to AMD in 2018 I'm really happy with my 5800X3D, but I want to see Intel compete very aggressively against AMD again.
If you want to game then by cpu with 6 core if you want for workstation then buy more then 6 core cup simple why make it so complicated like you can't use ecore well with in workstation then why bothered getting them?
Use performance mode(instead of dx11 or dx12) on Fortnite if you want to test the CPU as that is the most CPU bound way the game can run
You need all cores enabled if you want to use intel APO
Whats APO?
@@hellspawnx3526 APO is intel Application Optimization feature which is supported by 14 th gen i9 and i7 you can look it up on google if want to know what it does
What's that, I've never heard of it
@@kymanihamilton3477 search “intel Application Optimization”. It’s an new and expanding technology which uses per application profiles to spread processing power across all P cores and all E cores evenly
@@hellspawnx3526 search “intel Application Optimization”. It’s an new and expanding technology which uses per application profiles to spread processing power across all P cores and all E cores evenly
No. Just use a PROPER cooling system! MoRa 420 in my case for 14900KS. I'll never understand why people think they can get maximum performance from high end CPUs with some crappy AIO.
The Efficiency Cores imo matters while gaming for back ground tasks while keeping games running smooth on the p cores = keeps the overall system smooth while gaming
They cause alot of issues thats for sure. I keep seeing so many posts about people saying ''disable cores'' or somthing when peoples games are stuttering. If you want an issue free experience, buy AMD
Marcus was hyper threading on or off? YOU SHOULD HAVE TURNED HYPER-THREADING OFF??????
In some random games the cores utilized will hop from P to E cores causing stutters etc. not as common as windows updates, game updates, intel updates roll out. Basically unless you notice the issue don't bother
I observed similar weirdness - I compile stuff on my laptop and kaboom - it slows down in general. VCORE drops from 1.2v to 0.8xV. Windows becomes sluggish...but after some time...voltage goes up again and compilation speed get back to normal. For me - a thing to disable after unpacking laptop.
Do this test again while syncing all p cores and e cores at 1.36v LLC 6 with locked ratios and no c-states also at 1080p. What you are seeing is the ring downclocking with e-cores enabled. This will reduce the bandwidth and increase the latency between the memory and the cores. Also, at 1440p w/ 240hz+ the latency increase will come from the gpu not cpu.
If you had turned hyperthreading off you would have had a true comparison but since you left 8 hyperthreads on you already had 16 thread in the first place
I prefer P-Cores exclusively, the addition of E-Cores does give you more pipelines but the CPU does need the chops to handle that task.
I still can't get over how BIG GPUS have gotten lmao.
i recently discovered your channel and its amazing to find a fellow brit out there
No, they help. You have dedicated P cores that focus solely on gaming where as E cores do background tasks handle Windows 11 bloat and also help with gaming.
Wrong, they fk up so many games…
@@RaduPNT Check that all your drivers are up to date and running the latest version. If a game keeps crashing send a crash report.
@@ALxdCr4ftPlays Personally, I tested around 15 games when I bought my 13900K and realized that if I stop all E-Cores, in some games I have an increase of 3-8 FPS and in others I no longer have stuttering, which for to me it makes E-Cores not "efficient" at all, and here I am strictly referring to games.
@tlv8555brand loyal sheep 😂 🤡
Cores or Cause??
PC Centric: YES haha
What version of the RTX 3080 TI do I need for the dragon Canyon 12 I nine I know it’s a 12 inch card but which version could you please help? If I can’t use a 3080? Can I use a 4074 example?
13:40 The 1% Low is weirdly bad for 8P+4E and interestingly good for 6P+2E although the difference is small.
Well, seems like you should have tested at 1080p so you could remove the GPU bottleneck. And maybe set the power budget that your cooler could handle (I'm just hoping you are using a cooler that can dissipate 200w+). You also need to show the actual power usage so we will know if there is overclocking headroom or not based on our PSU and cooling situation.
Seems like the point of this is deciding whether to buy a 200 quid 12700 or a 500 quid 14700. And it seems like you can save the dosh to spend on either a better SSD* or GPU. Heck that 300 is practically a GPU by itself if you can find a 6800XT or similar.
*(I've only found maybe 5 PCIe 4.0 models worth the massive proce increase over a good DRAM Cache 3.0 drive, and the Silicon Power US75 is one of the cheapest, delivering almost 3,000MBps writes for /the entire drive/ in one sitting. As in it doesn't throttle back. I mean it will burst at 6k or whatever too, but it won't tank in real performance after the SLC cache goes away)
1080p 180hz ips monitor vs 1440p 165hz va monitor? witch is good with rx 7800 rx?
Enabling E-Cores will crash Control (the game) consistently in the Foundation DLC. And it causes major stutters in Samurai Warriors 5. Just in case anyone was wondering. I could replicate this on a latop 13900HX and a desktop 13700K.
I think you should have tried playing Cities Skylines II, because as far as I know it's a heavily CPU bound
I was very pleased to see the return of BENCH MARCUS :D
I also was surprised to see that enabling e-cores does improve gaming performance slightly. It looks like Windows 11 has had enough time to mature and work well with Thread Director in order to make sure workloads get distributed correctly. That said, even Windows 10 can be tweaked to effectively bias heavier loads to the faster p-cores, so you still get some of the benefit.
I disabled them on my 14900k 4090 scar 18 laptop, not only has performance improved with ecores disabled but many microstutters resolved as well, for example in hogwarts legacy ecores on suffer from microstutters still, older games like Technomancer don’t even launch with ecores on, in addition tiny Tina’s texture preload is faster with ecores off, maybe it’s more apparent on laptops due to 330w limits.
The diffence between 177 and 173 is within margin of error(especially if only one run was done to get those numbers)...
Quite a few games produce micro stuttering on my system with e cores enabled. I turn them off for gaming which sucks.
Pretty much as expected - your +E results are mostly only a nudge above margin of error.
Presumably the E cores are occasionally getting sent a discreet simple operation when the Ps are occupied but on the whole the threading control should mostly ignore them in demanding programs like games. Of course, it will always depend on the structure of the specific code...
I am not sure if this is useful anymore, but process lasso can force games to avoid efficiency cores, or force background processes to use efficiency cores more. It's possible to segment the processes.
I'm uncertain because windows 11 may handle scheduling really well, or that there are some tests that showed that disabling e-cres reduced framerates a lot. I still believe a bit of tweaks is beneficial.
i disable hyperthreading and use e-cores for backround.
Interesting. I was under the assumption that games never touched the e-cores.
Be cool to see some Linux tests.... see if its handled the same or worse than Windows 11
I would like to see what happens when other tasks start up to see if the E core do their job and pick up the task without the P cores taking a hit.
I do light video editing and ecore is used for rendering when i checked core usage.
Gamers Nexus already made a video regarding this topic, leave E cores enabled.
link ?
Chill out! 3D V Cache is more important than core count or 6GHz. Thats why 7800X3D is the gaming king with 65W power draw full load.
While I agree with you the 65watt full power draw is completely false lol, its power efficient but not as power efficient as the non X variant AMD CPUs
Every time you touch the desk the egg on the 4090 rattles.
Another great video Marcus!!!
Did you get…taller??
W video!
I was literally asking this in the discord yesterday what timing !
6th 😂. Good video
That GPU sag
No Warzone 😢
How's bout temperature wise in a laptop scenario? Does it drop the temp?
I'd imagine not appreciably, since the E cores consume so little power.
first :))
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Thanks!
*THANKS FOR 0 LIKE AND 0 SUBSCRIBERS* 😈
First😂
first
first
Can I stick with Ryzen so I don't have to sell my child into slavery to afford it?
Should my p and e cores be off?
No bruh 🤦♂️
4th
Intel needs to stop with their joke GPUs and AI bullshit and put all that money and resources back in their CPUs. They need their Ryzen moment. It's pretty sad how bad they fell off. It's like how AMD was before Ryzen, though not as bad but you get my point. They need a huge come back.
Yeah, recently a store employee told me that Intel is better because their cpu has 14 cores vs 8 cores from a Ryzen. There's two reasons why efficiency cores are used. Easier manufacturing and marketing.
They've exhausted this option now, what's next? Apart from NPU.
@@yensteel 8 cores are more than enough for now if your just gaming. 14+ is needed when you do other things,like encoding videos etc. But Intel really needs to get back on track, I switched back to AMD in 2018 I'm really happy with my 5800X3D, but I want to see Intel compete very aggressively against AMD again.
If you want to game then by cpu with 6 core if you want for workstation then buy more then 6 core cup simple why make it so complicated like you can't use ecore well with in workstation then why bothered getting them?
Would have been nice to see the benchmarks with just efficiency cores.
Keep up the work. Always a good day to learn more about pc parts.
AMD user here. 😅
Correct choice