@Creative Dragon, I'm going to Alaska in November and renting a RAV4, it's my first time driving on snow and ice. Please tell me it's a safe car to drive in these conditions? :))
@@meeder78 I don't believe it sends any more power to the rear axle as it's a seperate motor and it's not mechanical AWD but sport does give better response from not moving than eco does. Some people drive with it on all the time but I don't because I get considerably worse gas mileage that way.
I completely concur with this video as I was able to get a Lexus RX450h AWD stuck. The rear wheels offered little to no help. Even with TCS off (long press)
As crappy as you think it is, it's actually better than the gas-driven RAV4 system because the latter simply turns off at 40mph and won't come back on until you drop back down under that speed. Many cars have that setup. Once at highway speeds, you're only on FWD, even if the front wheels slip. Otherwise their center differential and the power transfer unit burn out due to differences in revolutions between the front axle and the rear. The Hybrid will engage the rear axle at any speed, if needed, including to accelerate on the highway (with immediate 100% torque). I think the 2019 generation is supposed to up the power on the rear wheels, which will help issues of crawling up hills with little front traction (up to 60hp I think). Going up a hill and fighting heavy snow resistance requires either very thin tires with deep grooves or lots of power in the rear to push the thing through.
I'm not trying to start an argument, and I agree with most of your comments, but I think it is actually the other way around between the two AWD systems. The non-hybrid AWD system is active above 40 KMPH (25MPH) when needed, at least according to the "AWD" screen in my RAV4. When the Rav4 reaches 26MPH with the "AWD lock" on the "AWD lock" disengages though. At around 4:20 of this video below he talks about the AWD system still being active above 25MPH after the "lock" disengages, plus he mentions how the sport button affects the AWD system sending at least 10% of power to the rear wheels when turning. ruclips.net/video/4mB7db6yAls/видео.html I have a 2018 Rav4 Limited non-hybrid and my parents have the 2018 Rav4 Hybrid Limited. I am in the current situation where my parents don't really care for it and they are probably going to make a trade towards a 2018 or 2019 RX350 and would use mine as a trade if I wanted. Living in Calgary, Alberta we can get a fair amount of snow, and I do travel to Edmonton and back twice a month, so I drive mostly highway which is why I was debating keeping the non-hybrid, but I think the hybrid has too many pluses vs the non hybrid. I have driven both the hybrid and non hybrid on the highway and looking at the AWD screen on my gas version, the AWD system is active when cornering while giving gas, stepping on the gas at highway speeds (passing), and power is also sent to the rear wheels when going up a hill at highway speeds. On the hybrid which I have driven around 1500-2000 KM's I could not get the AWD to activate even when flooring it at highway speeds, at least according to the "eco" screen. The hybrid has fewer KM's on it, around 4000, mine has closer to 20,000 now. The hybrid does have a smoother ride and feels more composed, maybe because it is heavier due to the batteries? The hybrid is also quieter, hardly any engine noise, no "gear whine between 80-90 KMPH", plus it is undercoated from the factory. Also the breaks are not only supposed to wear better on the hybrid, but it does seem to helps it stop easier as well. There hybrid gets around the same fuel economy on the highway, at least it did for me on the trip I made last weekend, and it gets considerably better fuel economy around town, which would mainly save me fuel going to work and back 5 days a week. The hybrid is also "faster" than the non-hybrid. I do also use winter tires (Michelin Latitude X-ice) which makes a big difference, probably a bigger difference than what is between these two AWD systems...
I don't know if you're reading your screen wrong or if your screen is wrong, but I'm right. I'm right because of how cars work, not because I want to be. The reason the AWD lock is disengaged at 26mph is because with that speed, the front axle and rear axle can no longer safely operate at the same rate on the same transmission because of different RPMs between the axles. It grinds down the driveshafts. At 26mph, the AWD system starts to gradually disengage because of its mechanical connections to the engine/transmission. It doesn't just shut off, but slowly reduces the torque to the rear until it disengages the rear completely at 40mph. Above that speed, the difference in the axle movement would be greater than is safe. This is due to the fact that drive shafts are of different lengths, but there is but a single transmission, which spins the shafts at the same speed. That means the rear axle would spin slower than what's needed at that speed. At even higher speeds, it's even worse. AWD systems are arguably of little use at such speeds anyway. A few manufacturers have found a way around that, such as Subaru, but they cannot disengage the rear completely because of that work-around. For example, Subaru's power transfer unit that distributes the torque is actually built into the transmission itself, so it provides different RPMs to the different drive shafts. It comes with pluses and minuses. A plus is that it can be driven at high speeds without disengaging one of the axles. A minus is that there's little in torque distribution that can be varied. Most Subarus with this system can only transfer up to 20% of torque between the front and the rear. Toyota's hybrid system is similar to Volvo hybrid system where the rear axle is completely disconnected from the front... or the transmission. There is no drive shaft. It spins as the computer tells it to. That means it can do whatever revolutions it wants. In the hybrid, if you press the gas really hard at 50mph, you'll see the rear axle engage. It has to be hard as the computer is generally not wanting to engage the rear at highway speeds to conserve energy (and fuel).
my 2002 rav4 was all wheel drive and did great. seems the newer they are the dummer the systems became. they are trying to get better fuel economy and willing to sacrifice performance
I think maybe it’s because 2002 didn’t have a hybrid rav4 with no driveshaft connecting the rear tires and there’s only a electric motor. And if your talking about performance the rav4 hybrid is faster than the normal one.
I just got stuck on ice with the front wheels spinning but the rear wheels not spinning at all! that's not AWD! That said, it is will drive though a foot of fresh fluffy snow with no problem.
problem with rear wheels traction is that they have traditional open differentials and not separate electric motors on each wheels which have cured this off the ground wheel issues.
That's true, but a decent traction control system would resolve that issue. Most CUVs have open differentials, including Subaru. Having two separate electric motors in the back would mean no wheel would ever get more than say 35 hp each, which isn't much. If you apply brakes to the free-spinning one on an open differential, you might send up to 55-60hp to the one that still has traction. 35 horsepower won't get you anywhere.
@@afcgeo882 It's not the horsepower that gets you moving, it's the torque. Electric motors have massive amounts of low-speed torque. Dual independently controlled electric motors would also have the effect of making a CUV handle like it's smaller than it really is through the curves, with no understeer, by recapturing energy from the inside rear wheel and sending it to the outside rear wheel. Acura did this for the MDX hybrid SUV and the RLX hybrid sports sedan.
@@aspecreviews Just so we're being technical about it, it's actually the power the engine generates that gets you moving. Torque vs Horsepower are actually just two different measurements of the engine's power output. Torque is pure power output in newton-meters or pounds of force per foot and horsepower is how much force is needed to move a 3300lb weight 1 foot in 1 minute. Thus, horsepower is a measurement of power in time. Specficially, Horsepower = Torque X RPM / 5252. That formula is: H=TxRPM/5252. To make more power, the engine must either generate more torque or work at higher RPMs (or both). That means that indeed, it is the horsepower, not the torque that gets your vehicle moving. You can have either a VERY torquey engine and rev it low, or you can rev up your lower torque engine very high and still get to the same power. It is ultimately, reaching the needed horsepower, that allows your vehicle to move. When it comes to electric motors, their power isn't measured in horsepower because they don't have RPMs. Their torque is 100% from the start, but their power is a steady line and increases from 0 to 100% as the speed of the motor increases from 0 to 100%. Yes, if each wheel had its own independent electric motor, you'd have a lot more capability, but it costs A LOT. The issue isn't of recapturing energy though. It has to do with the fact that the inner wheel should spin less in turns than the outer wheel. That's what gives you enhanced handling. This is achieved well enough (for most uses) by simply braking the inside wheel. The only time when you'd need an added source of power for that handling is during high power acceleration in a corner, which Acura, marketing itself as a performance company... Regular CUVs don't really need that.
@@afcgeo882 Please explain. A stationary wheel is 0 RPM, therefore 0 HP. The application of torque is necessary to initiate rotation. ICE's rev at higher RPM's, producing torque and HP, then rely on friction (clutch) to transfer some fraction to the wheels and some fraction to heat loss. By contrast, Toyota HSD uses a planetary power split device to send a fraction of any energy from the ICE to the (front) wheels and the rest to be stored in the HV traction battery
I felt this was the case but was kind of hoping it wasn't. According to my sources, the Rav4 back motors only generate a total of 67hp between both axles, and that's when the HV battery has decent charge. I guess this is better than FWD, but honestly not by much.
Depends on your needs. This is my first winter with the car (half-winter at that, I got it in December), and I find its traction _far_ superior to any FWD I've driven before. E.g. when visiting the cabin in the mountains, my old car's traction control would at times kick in enough to produce a burning smell by the time I reached the top (it was a Toyota Avensis, so presumably related traction control systems). There's also a particularly steep hill at the end that I sometimes needed several attempts to get up, and I generally almost came to a standstill near the crest. The RAV4 does the entire climb without the traction control light even blinking unless I hammer the gas to provoke it, and it happily accelerates up that entire final hill. Based on my admittedly limited experience, I would say it's great for offering extra traction to get you up that slippery incline in winter, but less effective getting you going from a dead stop. Which seems to coincide pretty well with my impression from this video. Now, for me, that's perfect. It's exactly what I needed. But it's not a "proper off road vehicle," so people in need of that should look elsewhere. From reviews I've seen, the AWD system of the non-hybrid is far superior, so that might be worth considering.
The Rav4 has three separate electric motors. One front one makes power for the generator, battery, and starter. The other front one generates power for the front axle and handles braking regeneration for the front axle. That one is rated at 141hp (105kW). The third is in the back and it's a small version of motor #2. It drives the rear axle and handles the regeneration for the rear axle. That one is rated at 67hp (50kW) and only engages when needed (slippage or needed extra acceleration. What I really want to know is how much torque the rear motor generates. I know it makes 100% of the torque at 0 rpms, but how much? Is it enough to push this rather heavy vehicle up a hill against snow in low traction conditions? I know the total ICE torque output seems to be 150lb/ft, which is very little for this heavy car.
@@afcgeo882 the rear motor has 140Nm of torque. But you have to take into account the gear reduction. If I recall correctly you end up with around 800-900Nm at the wheels which isn't great but it does help.
Seemed like it was loosing traction a lot of the time especially with one wheel up the others didn't drive it free ? Was tracktion controll switched off ?
For snowy roads, the 2 best cars ever: fiat panda 4x4 and Citroën AX 4x4, both little and light as a beer can. I was born and I still live in the Alps at 1600 meters a.s.l., here we do know what snowy roads are.
@@afcgeo882 both cars no more produced, but there are a good number still circulating, usually the owners tend to keep them dear. My old Panda is 23 years old but in good conditions, it is a "second" or "battlefield" car (obviously). In 2wd mode it is a beast on the snow already, but when things go harder i pull the magic tool close to the gear, and the 4x4 comes to dictate law. I remember a steep road last winter with all the people stop aside to try putting chains under thick snowing (already some 20/30 centimeters on the road), i slowed the car and asked "oh ho, why chains? Is there snow on the ground?" :-)
It has the same awd system of the new prius, so this is not an Off Road car like the past models. I think this awd Is made only for more efficient petrol consumption.
You tried to drive it through one of those giant banks of snow that the snow plows leave behind. That's why it got stuck. Mine does fine if I just drive it on the street.
@@allis123 t'inquiète pas l'antipatinage était en enlevé mais c'est un système de traction intégrale qui n'envoie pas la force aux roues qui ont de la traction
This is the 1st time I have driven on ice with my 2017 RAV 4. When I tap the breaks so I can make a turn, it feels like the tires skid & slides. What am I doing wrong? I have never had this problem before with my other car
I'm REALLY curious as to how the Outlander PHEV (a car very similar in respects to this car) would perform in the Diagonal test. Given however Mitsubishi does have S-AWC system on that vehicle + stronger rear electric motors than the fronts (opposite of the Rav4 Hybrid) would be interesting to see.
Not better because of the driver, not because of the cars. Realistically, higher torque output in the rear should impact the car's ability to climb hills in forward gears and supplement traction better when front traction is compromised. When you have a driver that floors on ice and lets go of the gas in deep snow, everything gets stuck. My mother drives better in the snow.
I doubt they want to. This car handles 99% of what their buyers ever see, so what's the purpose of putting in costlier systems? Then you have to raise the price of the car or make even less money on it. There's no business sense in that. If you want a tank, get a tank. Don't ask Toyota to make a RAV4 into a tank.
Exactly. I'd say close to half of the vehicles around here (Alberta,Canada) are FWD and most of those owners use all season tires in the winter. Put some winter tires on the Rav4 and it will handle 99% of what owners ask of it fairly easily, as most owners want AWD for city snow storms like the one we just had to start October, I should still be golfing lol. www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-weather-snow-oct-2-1.4846725
The real question is... how much was your hybrid battery charged up when you did the last test. The rear wheels ONLY have power by a rear electric motor which if the hybrid battery is not fully charged it will not work to its full potential. I know because i have this hybrid rav4. I noticed i take off a lot faster (0-60mph) when my hybrid battery is fully charged and "sport" mode is on.
That's now how electric motors work. They work FULLY until there is zero charge in the battery. The issue is that electric motors lose torque when they're already spinning, so you get less out of them when you're at speed. You take off faster when the "sport" mode is on because it maximizes the RPMs of the gasoline engine, softens traction control and shifts gears at higher RPMs. It has NOTHING to do with the battery charge.
Hoping someone can help me on this. I drive to Ski resorts often during snowstorms, and my round trip could be near 100 miles. I heard that the HYBRID Rav4 rear wheels can only be engaged by the electric motor, which has a range of only about 55 miles. So if its snowing all the way to a ski resort and back, will I not be able to engage in AWD once I've driven 55 miles on snow covered roads?
there is no range on hybrids - the engine will charge the battery at all time to make sure it doesn't go below certain amount, that in turn powers the rear as needed.
Hi, I'm curious how the RAV4 - Hybrid worked with traction control OFF while you trying to climb on that "ramp". I was ready to buy this car but after saw this video... Thanks for these tests and keep up the good work!
This is the only diagonal test done in dead snow. doesn't seem like a fair test compared to others done on asphalt. the cx9 failed on asphalt. with the rav4 hybrid, the rear wheels are not connected to the fronts, so it may actually do well in this test, if it was done like all the others, on dry pavement, with one wheel in the air. thats the point of a diagonal test
monzx3 It's looking like it really is. I own a 2013 AWD non hybrid with no issues in snow this year. Im seeing the hybrid AWD system isnt half as good.
It's actually not better at all. It shuts off all torque to the rear axle at 40mph. Actually, it starts to shut off torque to the rear at 25mph, but it does so gradually, until it is 100% FWD at 40mph and NOTHING you do short of slowing down will engage the rear because the PTU will burn out from the revolution difference between the axles. Lots of AWD cars are like this. Actually, most are. Subaru is one major exception because its PTU is built into the transmission itself, not added on. That's why they don't have FWD versions of the same cars that are AWD. That would require two different designs completely. Most AWD cars have the AWD system as an add-on. They RAV4 Hybrid's axles have no linkage, allowing the rear to run at the same exact pace as the front, matched by a computer. That means its rear axle can and will come alive at any speed, giving you AWD traction even on the highway if you need it for acceleration or slippage.
i think they just dont know how to use the car? why are they allowing the wheels to slip? turn off trac-c and all 4 wheels will try to push the car out of the snow?
I have a 2010 outback and we have a 1/4 mile driveway that climes. I literally just parked on one of the steepest parts of it and the way that VDC and ESC works with the AWD is incredible. It' takes about 3 seconds for it to figure out what is making slip and then WOOSH! Up it goes. :)
I just bought a Rav4 and discovered the hard way it's not a true AWD, my wife and I are trading the Rav4 for a Crosstek and taking the hit now! Do your research before buying the Rav4.
please look at the complete review before making a statement that is incorrect this Rav4 is equipped with winter tire... a lot of people think that winter tire will get you out of every situation but that's not the case.
No, they were more like a better than most all season thread type, put a real snow tire on and see /feel the diff, I use Mastercraft snowtrekers on the Wife's Malibu and it never get's stuck.
Is this the same Subaru with a CVT that failed miserably on the TFLC's off road attempt ? It failed so bad Subaru wouldn't loan them any more cars for testing. TFLC ended up having to buy one because Subaru was so embarrassed. Let's not forget the 5+ year window of time Subuaru made faulty head gaskets and did nothing to make things right. Sorry, I am not impressed. Symmetrical AWD is great, but doesn't do a damn thing if the CVT is in protection mode or your boxer engine is ingesting so much antifreeze it dies. I will stick with my RAV4 and risk having to make a try or two in the snow knowing my car will still run the next day.
GIRL ASMR absolutely!! Well said. Two types of drivers... those that drive Subaru’s and then those that don’t and just leave angry, upset comments. It’s sad. Lol
I don't know. The Acura MDX (which I owns) does really well - can put >90% to either 4 weels - see ruclips.net/video/YidkaqlW9ns/видео.html vs cars before that. No subi though...
The car would have climbed much better if there were passengers on board... The weight of the passengers would have helped the tyres in sticking to the snow
TFLC's RUclips channel just did a test of a new Subaru. The CVT goes into protection mode when the wheels are stalled not allowing you to get any wheel spin. Their first test back a few years ago embarrassed Subaru so bad that Subaru refused to loan them any more cars for testing. What does that say ? Sounds pretty lame to me. Sorry, the Subaru mentality is lame to me. Toyota has a piston ring flaw several years back and they made good on it. Subaru made shitty head gaskets for 5+ years and did nothing to right things. Fail.
Jesus A Valentin As a Canadian there is nothing fictitious about those tested. I put my 97 4Runner through way worse than what's attempted in the video just going to and from school and work every winter!
99.9% of car owners are never going to need a proper diagonal performing suv in the snow. Pretty useless if you ask me. For the 2019 version they have claimed the rear electric drive has more power. Despite no one ever needing it, I’m interested to see how it will compare to see if Toyota is lying or not.
toyota et leur système awd vraiment pourri j'en ai eu un toyota awd et hyper basic..resté pris souvent car un zéro majuscule pour le diagonal,, resté pris souvent a cause du diagonal dans des stationnement enneigé innégal avec neige durcie. pourri comme systeme.. bon pour matante ginette qui va au dépanneur au coin l'hiver thats it!
The way these guys who do the diagonal test for every vehicle is stupid. There is not one single test that is the same for every vehicle. So how can you compare and conclude that a particular vehicle suck. I think that the owner of this channel is biased.
Darwin Cuenco how about you gtfo! We compose with what we have! And with Mother Nature ! Fine you don’t find it fair... but WE are biased!? GTFO and go watch pewdiepie!
Putting it in sport fixes most of its problems when it comes to getting stuck. Though I've never gotten stuck with my 2018 in Alaska.
@Creative Dragon, I'm going to Alaska in November and renting a RAV4, it's my first time driving on snow and ice. Please tell me it's a safe car to drive in these conditions? :))
@@maarjaest if your getting a 2016-18 yeah tell the company they better have snow tires on it.
Old video but does putting it in sport change the behaviour and use more power for the rear axle?
@@meeder78 I don't believe it sends any more power to the rear axle as it's a seperate motor and it's not mechanical AWD but sport does give better response from not moving than eco does. Some people drive with it on all the time but I don't because I get considerably worse gas mileage that way.
@@ethanmckibbin I believe it gives 10% more power to the rear in sport mode from a stand still.
Sometimes it wants to work and sometimes it doesn't. Interesting.
I completely concur with this video as I was able to get a Lexus RX450h AWD stuck. The rear wheels offered little to no help. Even with TCS off (long press)
Okay, but in my years in the military I was able to get a Humvee stuck, multiple times. Most people have. I've seen tanks stuck too.
As crappy as you think it is, it's actually better than the gas-driven RAV4 system because the latter simply turns off at 40mph and won't come back on until you drop back down under that speed. Many cars have that setup. Once at highway speeds, you're only on FWD, even if the front wheels slip. Otherwise their center differential and the power transfer unit burn out due to differences in revolutions between the front axle and the rear. The Hybrid will engage the rear axle at any speed, if needed, including to accelerate on the highway (with immediate 100% torque). I think the 2019 generation is supposed to up the power on the rear wheels, which will help issues of crawling up hills with little front traction (up to 60hp I think). Going up a hill and fighting heavy snow resistance requires either very thin tires with deep grooves or lots of power in the rear to push the thing through.
I'm not trying to start an argument, and I agree with most of your comments, but I think it is actually the other way around between the two AWD systems. The non-hybrid AWD system is active above 40 KMPH (25MPH) when needed, at least according to the "AWD" screen in my RAV4. When the Rav4 reaches 26MPH with the "AWD lock" on the "AWD lock" disengages though.
At around 4:20 of this video below he talks about the AWD system still being active above 25MPH after the "lock" disengages, plus he mentions how the sport button affects the AWD system sending at least 10% of power to the rear wheels when turning.
ruclips.net/video/4mB7db6yAls/видео.html
I have a 2018 Rav4 Limited non-hybrid and my parents have the 2018 Rav4 Hybrid Limited. I am in the current situation where my parents don't really care for it and they are probably going to make a trade towards a 2018 or 2019 RX350 and would use mine as a trade if I wanted. Living in Calgary, Alberta we can get a fair amount of snow, and I do travel to Edmonton and back twice a month, so I drive mostly highway which is why I was debating keeping the non-hybrid, but I think the hybrid has too many pluses vs the non hybrid.
I have driven both the hybrid and non hybrid on the highway and looking at the AWD screen on my gas version, the AWD system is active when cornering while giving gas, stepping on the gas at highway speeds (passing), and power is also sent to the rear wheels when going up a hill at highway speeds. On the hybrid which I have driven around 1500-2000 KM's I could not get the AWD to activate even when flooring it at highway speeds, at least according to the "eco" screen.
The hybrid has fewer KM's on it, around 4000, mine has closer to 20,000 now. The hybrid does have a smoother ride and feels more composed, maybe because it is heavier due to the batteries? The hybrid is also quieter, hardly any engine noise, no "gear whine between 80-90 KMPH", plus it is undercoated from the factory. Also the breaks are not only supposed to wear better on the hybrid, but it does seem to helps it stop easier as well.
There hybrid gets around the same fuel economy on the highway, at least it did for me on the trip I made last weekend, and it gets considerably better fuel economy around town, which would mainly save me fuel going to work and back 5 days a week.
The hybrid is also "faster" than the non-hybrid.
I do also use winter tires (Michelin Latitude X-ice) which makes a big difference, probably a bigger difference than what is between these two AWD systems...
I don't know if you're reading your screen wrong or if your screen is wrong, but I'm right. I'm right because of how cars work, not because I want to be. The reason the AWD lock is disengaged at 26mph is because with that speed, the front axle and rear axle can no longer safely operate at the same rate on the same transmission because of different RPMs between the axles. It grinds down the driveshafts. At 26mph, the AWD system starts to gradually disengage because of its mechanical connections to the engine/transmission. It doesn't just shut off, but slowly reduces the torque to the rear until it disengages the rear completely at 40mph. Above that speed, the difference in the axle movement would be greater than is safe. This is due to the fact that drive shafts are of different lengths, but there is but a single transmission, which spins the shafts at the same speed. That means the rear axle would spin slower than what's needed at that speed. At even higher speeds, it's even worse. AWD systems are arguably of little use at such speeds anyway. A few manufacturers have found a way around that, such as Subaru, but they cannot disengage the rear completely because of that work-around. For example, Subaru's power transfer unit that distributes the torque is actually built into the transmission itself, so it provides different RPMs to the different drive shafts. It comes with pluses and minuses. A plus is that it can be driven at high speeds without disengaging one of the axles. A minus is that there's little in torque distribution that can be varied. Most Subarus with this system can only transfer up to 20% of torque between the front and the rear.
Toyota's hybrid system is similar to Volvo hybrid system where the rear axle is completely disconnected from the front... or the transmission. There is no drive shaft. It spins as the computer tells it to. That means it can do whatever revolutions it wants. In the hybrid, if you press the gas really hard at 50mph, you'll see the rear axle engage. It has to be hard as the computer is generally not wanting to engage the rear at highway speeds to conserve energy (and fuel).
my 2002 rav4 was all wheel drive and did great. seems the newer they are the dummer the systems became. they are trying to get better fuel economy and willing to sacrifice performance
I think maybe it’s because 2002 didn’t have a hybrid rav4 with no driveshaft connecting the rear tires and there’s only a electric motor. And if your talking about performance the rav4 hybrid is faster than the normal one.
I just got stuck on ice with the front wheels spinning but the rear wheels not spinning at all! that's not AWD! That said, it is will drive though a foot of fresh fluffy snow with no problem.
problem with rear wheels traction is that they have traditional open differentials and not separate electric motors on each wheels which have cured this off the ground wheel issues.
That's true, but a decent traction control system would resolve that issue. Most CUVs have open differentials, including Subaru. Having two separate electric motors in the back would mean no wheel would ever get more than say 35 hp each, which isn't much. If you apply brakes to the free-spinning one on an open differential, you might send up to 55-60hp to the one that still has traction. 35 horsepower won't get you anywhere.
@@afcgeo882 It's not the horsepower that gets you moving, it's the torque. Electric motors have massive amounts of low-speed torque. Dual independently controlled electric motors would also have the effect of making a CUV handle like it's smaller than it really is through the curves, with no understeer, by recapturing energy from the inside rear wheel and sending it to the outside rear wheel. Acura did this for the MDX hybrid SUV and the RLX hybrid sports sedan.
@@aspecreviews Just so we're being technical about it, it's actually the power the engine generates that gets you moving. Torque vs Horsepower are actually just two different measurements of the engine's power output. Torque is pure power output in newton-meters or pounds of force per foot and horsepower is how much force is needed to move a 3300lb weight 1 foot in 1 minute. Thus, horsepower is a measurement of power in time.
Specficially, Horsepower = Torque X RPM / 5252. That formula is: H=TxRPM/5252. To make more power, the engine must either generate more torque or work at higher RPMs (or both). That means that indeed, it is the horsepower, not the torque that gets your vehicle moving. You can have either a VERY torquey engine and rev it low, or you can rev up your lower torque engine very high and still get to the same power. It is ultimately, reaching the needed horsepower, that allows your vehicle to move.
When it comes to electric motors, their power isn't measured in horsepower because they don't have RPMs. Their torque is 100% from the start, but their power is a steady line and increases from 0 to 100% as the speed of the motor increases from 0 to 100%.
Yes, if each wheel had its own independent electric motor, you'd have a lot more capability, but it costs A LOT. The issue isn't of recapturing energy though. It has to do with the fact that the inner wheel should spin less in turns than the outer wheel. That's what gives you enhanced handling. This is achieved well enough (for most uses) by simply braking the inside wheel. The only time when you'd need an added source of power for that handling is during high power acceleration in a corner, which Acura, marketing itself as a performance company... Regular CUVs don't really need that.
@@afcgeo882 Please explain. A stationary wheel is 0 RPM, therefore 0 HP. The application of torque is necessary to initiate rotation.
ICE's rev at higher RPM's, producing torque and HP, then rely on friction (clutch) to transfer some fraction to the wheels and some fraction to heat loss. By contrast, Toyota HSD uses a planetary power split device to send a fraction of any energy from the ICE to the (front) wheels and the rest to be stored in the HV traction battery
Marcilla Smith What is it you want me to explain? How open differentials work?
Is the new 2019 AWD hybrid really improved over past generation in these situations?
yeah, I would like to see that as I'm considering a 19 hybrid.
No, it's the same
Hugely improved.
Tfl car and Driving Sports TV drove it offroad and man!
yes, it got TRAIL MODE.
Any chance you could test the 2017 CR-V in these conditions including diagonal testing in snow?
April 27th is the week scheduled to test the new CRV.
ruclips.net/video/7B0VpJGdz40/видео.html
I felt this was the case but was kind of hoping it wasn't. According to my sources, the Rav4 back motors only generate a total of 67hp between both axles, and that's when the HV battery has decent charge. I guess this is better than FWD, but honestly not by much.
Depends on your needs. This is my first winter with the car (half-winter at that, I got it in December), and I find its traction _far_ superior to any FWD I've driven before.
E.g. when visiting the cabin in the mountains, my old car's traction control would at times kick in enough to produce a burning smell by the time I reached the top (it was a Toyota Avensis, so presumably related traction control systems). There's also a particularly steep hill at the end that I sometimes needed several attempts to get up, and I generally almost came to a standstill near the crest. The RAV4 does the entire climb without the traction control light even blinking unless I hammer the gas to provoke it, and it happily accelerates up that entire final hill.
Based on my admittedly limited experience, I would say it's great for offering extra traction to get you up that slippery incline in winter, but less effective getting you going from a dead stop. Which seems to coincide pretty well with my impression from this video.
Now, for me, that's perfect. It's exactly what I needed. But it's not a "proper off road vehicle," so people in need of that should look elsewhere. From reviews I've seen, the AWD system of the non-hybrid is far superior, so that might be worth considering.
The Rav4 has three separate electric motors. One front one makes power for the generator, battery, and starter. The other front one generates power for the front axle and handles braking regeneration for the front axle. That one is rated at 141hp (105kW). The third is in the back and it's a small version of motor #2. It drives the rear axle and handles the regeneration for the rear axle. That one is rated at 67hp (50kW) and only engages when needed (slippage or needed extra acceleration. What I really want to know is how much torque the rear motor generates. I know it makes 100% of the torque at 0 rpms, but how much? Is it enough to push this rather heavy vehicle up a hill against snow in low traction conditions? I know the total ICE torque output seems to be 150lb/ft, which is very little for this heavy car.
@@afcgeo882 the rear motor has 140Nm of torque. But you have to take into account the gear reduction. If I recall correctly you end up with around 800-900Nm at the wheels which isn't great but it does help.
The biggest difference, at least for Europeans, is that the FWD hybrid is allowed to tow 800kg and the AWD hybrid is allowed to tow a 1650kg trailer.
Better control with winter tires.
My 98 Rav4 has a locking center differential and more ground clearance.
Why do you have a locking center diff? Think about it... This car doesn't need it.
Seemed like it was loosing traction a lot of the time especially with one wheel up the others didn't drive it free ?
Was tracktion controll switched off ?
For snowy roads, the 2 best cars ever: fiat panda 4x4 and Citroën AX 4x4, both little and light as a beer can. I was born and I still live in the Alps at 1600 meters a.s.l., here we do know what snowy roads are.
Both cars not available in North America.
@@afcgeo882 both cars no more produced, but there are a good number still circulating, usually the owners tend to keep them dear. My old Panda is 23 years old but in good conditions, it is a "second" or "battlefield" car (obviously). In 2wd mode it is a beast on the snow already, but when things go harder i pull the magic tool close to the gear, and the 4x4 comes to dictate law. I remember a steep road last winter with all the people stop aside to try putting chains under thick snowing (already some 20/30 centimeters on the road), i slowed the car and asked "oh ho, why chains? Is there snow on the ground?" :-)
Those two cars were never sold in North America. People here don't know them.
I have this car (2017) and recently I got stuck in the mud. Only front tires were spinning but not rear. What did I do wrong?
You bought the wrong model, sorry to say that. Hybrid has a completely different driving for the AWD.
It has the same awd system of the new prius, so this is not an Off Road car like the past models. I think this awd Is made only for more efficient petrol consumption.
How is 2018 xle hybrid rav4 compared to this? I want to know because my dad bought one a month ago. Is it any better?
Literally the same with some refinement that doesn't effect driving
You tried to drive it through one of those giant banks of snow that the snow plows leave behind. That's why it got stuck. Mine does fine if I just drive it on the street.
j'ai eu une matrix awd, surement meme systeme awd pourri. j'ai resté pris souvent sur le plateau avec ou les roues etaient au diagonal!
faut que tu enlève l antipatinage pour que ca marche dans la grosse neige c est tout
@@allis123 t'inquiète pas l'antipatinage était en enlevé mais c'est un système de traction intégrale qui n'envoie pas la force aux roues qui ont de la traction
This is the 1st time I have driven on ice with my 2017 RAV 4. When I tap the breaks so I can make a turn, it feels like the tires skid & slides. What am I doing wrong? I have never had this problem before with my other car
I'm REALLY curious as to how the Outlander PHEV (a car very similar in respects to this car) would perform in the Diagonal test. Given however Mitsubishi does have S-AWC system on that vehicle + stronger rear electric motors than the fronts (opposite of the Rav4 Hybrid) would be interesting to see.
We've confirmed with Mitsubishi that we will test this one this summer!
Not better because of the driver, not because of the cars. Realistically, higher torque output in the rear should impact the car's ability to climb hills in forward gears and supplement traction better when front traction is compromised. When you have a driver that floors on ice and lets go of the gas in deep snow, everything gets stuck. My mother drives better in the snow.
cool demo
It seems that the vehicle allowed you to drift , like I used to do with a Subaru. To drift so, you just put off the traction slip control ?
David Huot Yes. Turn off Vehicle stability control. Not sure how it's done on newer models. Hold in the traction control off button on the 2013 rav4.
Which means they tested it with the TC off.... on ice...
Did you use the diff-lock while making this video?
There is are no locking diffs. The Rear axle is controlled by a seperate drivetrain powered by the battery.
I’m guessing the 3rd gen RAV4 does better than the 4th?
Toyota has so much money that they can't still improve AWD like Subaru. Come on Toyota you can do better than this.
I doubt they want to. This car handles 99% of what their buyers ever see, so what's the purpose of putting in costlier systems? Then you have to raise the price of the car or make even less money on it. There's no business sense in that. If you want a tank, get a tank. Don't ask Toyota to make a RAV4 into a tank.
Exactly. I'd say close to half of the vehicles around here (Alberta,Canada) are FWD and most of those owners use all season tires in the winter. Put some winter tires on the Rav4 and it will handle 99% of what owners ask of it fairly easily, as most owners want AWD for city snow storms like the one we just had to start October, I should still be golfing lol.
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-weather-snow-oct-2-1.4846725
@@afcgeo882 I rather pay more with those features necessary. By the way, Toyota is not cheap either.
What is the botton where it makes the car not slip in the ice or snow?
toyota needs to put more hp on rear electric motor on hybrids because it doesn't do anything when you are stuck
The real question is... how much was your hybrid battery charged up when you did the last test. The rear wheels ONLY have power by a rear electric motor which if the hybrid battery is not fully charged it will not work to its full potential. I know because i have this hybrid rav4. I noticed i take off a lot faster (0-60mph) when my hybrid battery is fully charged and "sport" mode is on.
That's now how electric motors work. They work FULLY until there is zero charge in the battery. The issue is that electric motors lose torque when they're already spinning, so you get less out of them when you're at speed. You take off faster when the "sport" mode is on because it maximizes the RPMs of the gasoline engine, softens traction control and shifts gears at higher RPMs. It has NOTHING to do with the battery charge.
Quand on sait le conduire le RAV4 AWD est au top. En offroad comme sur la neige.
Hoping someone can help me on this. I drive to Ski resorts often during snowstorms, and my round trip could be near 100 miles. I heard that the HYBRID Rav4 rear wheels can only be engaged by the electric motor, which has a range of only about 55 miles. So if its snowing all the way to a ski resort and back, will I not be able to engage in AWD once I've driven 55 miles on snow covered roads?
there is no range on hybrids - the engine will charge the battery at all time to make sure it doesn't go below certain amount, that in turn powers the rear as needed.
winter tires on?
yep it's mandatory
What kind of tires are mounted on the vehicle?
winter tires!
Hi, I'm curious how the RAV4 - Hybrid worked with traction control OFF while you trying to climb on that "ramp". I was ready to buy this car but after saw this video... Thanks for these tests and keep up the good work!
This is the only diagonal test done in dead snow. doesn't seem like a fair test compared to others done on asphalt. the cx9 failed on asphalt. with the rav4 hybrid, the rear wheels are not connected to the fronts, so it may actually do well in this test, if it was done like all the others, on dry pavement, with one wheel in the air. thats the point of a diagonal test
Would the AWD system on the gas version RAV4 be any better? I have seen other videos with the hybrid and its AWD really is crap !
monzx3 It's looking like it really is. I own a 2013 AWD non hybrid with no issues in snow this year. Im seeing the hybrid AWD system isnt half as good.
Okay, that's not at all a measure of the system.
It's actually not better at all. It shuts off all torque to the rear axle at 40mph. Actually, it starts to shut off torque to the rear at 25mph, but it does so gradually, until it is 100% FWD at 40mph and NOTHING you do short of slowing down will engage the rear because the PTU will burn out from the revolution difference between the axles. Lots of AWD cars are like this. Actually, most are. Subaru is one major exception because its PTU is built into the transmission itself, not added on. That's why they don't have FWD versions of the same cars that are AWD. That would require two different designs completely. Most AWD cars have the AWD system as an add-on. They RAV4 Hybrid's axles have no linkage, allowing the rear to run at the same exact pace as the front, matched by a computer. That means its rear axle can and will come alive at any speed, giving you AWD traction even on the highway if you need it for acceleration or slippage.
Much better petrol only variant with AWD , real thing, hybrid is just for town driving and motorway, not off-road
Can you please make a car review of a 2017 toyota highlander hybrid? Thanks
Nice
It seems only Subaru has a AWD system that works correctly.
what about the mazda cx5? i thought it managed this test okay? i can't remember
i think they just dont know how to use the car? why are they allowing the wheels to slip? turn off trac-c and all 4 wheels will try to push the car out of the snow?
I have a 2010 outback and we have a 1/4 mile driveway that climes. I literally just parked on one of the steepest parts of it and the way that VDC and ESC works with the AWD is incredible. It' takes about 3 seconds for it to figure out what is making slip and then WOOSH! Up it goes. :)
@fabulousprofound
Both Mazdas were rubbish, they have probably the worst AWD systems on the market. BMW and Mercedes did well.
UvenDrake. would u recommend a subaru to someone that lives in a snowy climate? I'm looking at the outback 2.5?
You've got too much tyre pressure. That's why it's slipping.
I just bought a Rav4 and discovered the hard way it's not a true AWD, my wife and I are trading the Rav4 for a Crosstek and taking the hit now! Do your research before buying the Rav4.
Jesus even with those tires it was still failing
Why they did not mount winter tires in the first place? This video could look differently .
please look at the complete review before making a statement that is incorrect
this Rav4 is equipped with winter tire...
a lot of people think that winter tire will get you out of every situation
but that's not the case.
do u still recomend getting them
That were winter tires
No, they were more like a better than most all season thread type, put a real snow tire on and see /feel the diff, I use Mastercraft snowtrekers on the Wife's Malibu and it never get's stuck.
Chris Christian they need air blade ;)
hm....still Subaru is the best on an ice road in the world
for sure!
Is this the same Subaru with a CVT that failed miserably on the TFLC's off road attempt ? It failed so bad Subaru wouldn't loan them any more cars for testing. TFLC ended up having to buy one because Subaru was so embarrassed. Let's not forget the 5+ year window of time Subuaru made faulty head gaskets and did nothing to make things right. Sorry, I am not impressed. Symmetrical AWD is great, but doesn't do a damn thing if the CVT is in protection mode or your boxer engine is ingesting so much antifreeze it dies. I will stick with my RAV4 and risk having to make a try or two in the snow knowing my car will still run the next day.
On an ice road, it's 100% a function of tires, not AWD.
GIRL ASMR absolutely!! Well said. Two types of drivers... those that drive Subaru’s and then those that don’t and just leave angry, upset comments. It’s sad. Lol
I don't know. The Acura MDX (which I owns) does really well - can put >90% to either 4 weels - see ruclips.net/video/YidkaqlW9ns/видео.html vs cars before that. No subi though...
The car would have climbed much better if there were passengers on board... The weight of the passengers would have helped the tyres in sticking to the snow
They shouldn't be allowed to call this AWD.
Mmmmmm. Very disappointing so why some people say Toyota AWD system as good as much as the Subaru one is!
Because they test it against the Subaru CVT system, which sucks.
TFLC's RUclips channel just did a test of a new Subaru. The CVT goes into protection mode when the wheels are stalled not allowing you to get any wheel spin. Their first test back a few years ago embarrassed Subaru so bad that Subaru refused to loan them any more cars for testing. What does that say ? Sounds pretty lame to me. Sorry, the Subaru mentality is lame to me. Toyota has a piston ring flaw several years back and they made good on it. Subaru made shitty head gaskets for 5+ years and did nothing to right things. Fail.
Someone need a kia sorento😎
Electric 2022 Car
Harto penca su “tracción integral” lamentablemente hay gente que compra porquerías sin informarse
Scandaloso
No issues with my hybrid rav4. Obviously test are for fictitious circumstances that you will never encounter.
Jesus A Valentin As a Canadian there is nothing fictitious about those tested. I put my 97 4Runner through way worse than what's attempted in the video just going to and from school and work every winter!
99.9% of car owners are never going to need a proper diagonal performing suv in the snow. Pretty useless if you ask me. For the 2019 version they have claimed the rear electric drive has more power. Despite no one ever needing it, I’m interested to see how it will compare to see if Toyota is lying or not.
toyota et leur système awd vraiment pourri
j'en ai eu un toyota awd et hyper basic..resté pris souvent car un zéro majuscule pour le diagonal,, resté pris souvent a cause du diagonal dans des stationnement enneigé innégal avec neige durcie. pourri comme systeme.. bon pour matante ginette qui va au dépanneur au coin l'hiver thats it!
Just saying the driver isn’t even driving with momentum. They’re just crawling so yeah any car that crawls will do this.
Otherwise they'd just be testing the momentum power, not the car power, right?
Absolutely horrible AWD system.
Another video years old that if you turned traction control off it would do much better
nope it wont
@@CarQuestion I drive a 2014 XLE in Dryden Canada and it’s almost necessary that I have traction control off. So yes sir he’s it DOES
@@CarQuestion traction control can sometimes put these Toyota’s in only FWD in my situation in constant heavy snow that’s almost a safety hazard
@@mrkaneki1884 are we talking diagonal snow test or simply doing some snow covered roads?
@@mrkaneki1884 hybrid or regular? cause here it's a hybrid.
Системы "полного" привода от тойоты, особенно гибридные - полнейший шлак.
Зачем мне УАЗ, даун?
The way these guys who do the diagonal test for every vehicle is stupid. There is not one single test that is the same for every vehicle. So how can you compare and conclude that a particular vehicle suck. I think that the owner of this channel is biased.
Darwin Cuenco how about you gtfo! We compose with what we have! And with Mother Nature ! Fine you don’t find it fair... but WE are biased!? GTFO and go watch pewdiepie!
PATHETIC...