Desensitizing Using CAT-H
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2020
- In this video Warwick demonstrates the CAT-H approach to desensitizing. This method requires focus and patience, as well as good timing and the ability to sense tension within your horse. However, CAT-H is the most conscious way to help your horse during the desensitizing process because it keeps the horse under their tension threshold and allows them to come back down to their natural resting state easily.
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Not only do I like this methodology and practice, I am also really loving how even the use of the voice tone, tempo and volume, body language & breathing rate/heart rate from Warwick. It's the full picture not just an execution of a theory. Being attuned is not just about your reading of the horse and the signs of communication and language, it is also being attuned to your own sense of just 'being', without expectation, without a timeframe etc etc.
It take patience on the part of the human, which many horse people don't seem to have.
Years ago I used to clip horses for a living and I used this method not really knowing what is was called. I only ever had one horse that took a long time to de sensitize. He already had a history of hatred for clippers. I finally was able to clip him without the owner using a twitch. Still use this method 30 years on in any situation whether its clipping trailering plastic bags or scary encounters.
Anyone just relax hearing him talk? 😂 He’s got a soothing tone even for people!
It's funny how Clinton Anderson has his comments turned off yes l can see why. Think l stick with Warwick who's got a good man's heart..
Thank you for bringing this way of thinking to the horse community. We've been using this method with our wild horses and it has made all the difference. Most trainers just desensitize until the horse stops expressing fear, but this only eliminates the reaction, not the fear itself!
100%
This show and other shows like it are really good ways for city people to learn about special animals that live with humans or among us like for instance horses before I started watching shows about horses and horsemanship I never cared one way or another about their ears I have always known to keep away from their ass, their reflexive kicks. I guess a grandparent or somebody must’ve told me about that when I was young very young.
But that was about the limit of my horse knowledge... now, if I should meet a horse usually from across a fence and I offer a carrot or an apple a horse might come on over to say hi and maybe have an Apple but I am very mindful of where he is putting his ears and what he’s looking at whereas five years ago I didn’t care at all
Sorry to be off topic but does someone know a method to log back into an Instagram account??
I was dumb forgot my password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me
@Baker Andy instablaster :)
@Jonah Marc I really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and Im in the hacking process now.
I see it takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Constructional Aggression Treatment (CAT). I love seeing my two favorite fields blended together, this is great! In my experience with dog aggression training, working them under threshold makes the training go MUCH faster, because you aren't dealing with a sudden surge in stress chemicals which drastically reduce learning ability. Another interesting approach is BAT or Behavioral Adjustment Training, invented by Grisha Stewart you can find more info here on YT, very similar to CAT only the dog is the one to move away from the trigger after relaxing. Also LOOK-AT-THAT (LAT, I believe created by Leslie McDevitt?) rewarding for looking at the feared object, which is often then switched to Engage-disengage (rewarding for looking away after having a look) once the dog can do LAT reliably, is one I use most often and find very effective. I'd love to try these various approaches with horses to see how well they work. Thanks for the great video, I love how though-provoking and integrative your approach is! ❤
A whole new universe unfolds ...
Kindly Warmick! ,dog or horse? I loved that slip! The Indians in the great planes in America called their horses the sky dogs. Also, one of the things I have noticed growing up with American Indians in high school is that they have a sense of individual space, in which they are quiet, a space of thoughtfulness often mistaken for stupidity! I think cause they often are a horse culture they have adapted that individual space, thoughtfulness. Well, I do not really know this to be so but I suspect it, Finding this center of release resulted in both man and horse a strong awareness of who one is, or what one is, what bothers and what does not.
These videos, the Facebook page and the comments in both places are such a source of comfort for me these days. Knowledge, yes, but even more just so heartening to know that so many people are trying their hardest to make the world better for their horses and each other. This is gold! Thank you!
Isn't it, times are changing
@@sarahporter7789 Slowly, but yes, and definitely for the better for all of us.
Listening to your horse is so important!
So interesting, Warwick, and a method I've been using with a very sensitive young horse of mine (also without knowing what it was, but based on your techniques, especially for fly spray and the hose). I've liked it rather than "flooding" which seems to lead to learned helplessness, whereas giving the horse a sense of control over the thing they don't like keeps them curious and willing to learn, rather than shutting down. Also much less dangerous than the full-throttle freakouts you get when you wave the scary object in their face and wait for them to give up! The whole concept of keeping them sub-threshold is a great one because then they are interested in learning, and not frightened (and then exhausted) by the adrenaline surge. Good stuff, love your work.
I like your comment!☺️
To a horse, IMO, I think they see humans 1 of 2 ways. Horses can tell immediately when a human is paying attention to them and understands or is listening to them, vs people who don’t see through the horses eye, and don’t acknowledge get/recognize horse communication and interpret it correctly/accurately. Animals can definitely tell when a person has good intentions and when they don’t or if get they are not paying attention or not communicating clearly.
@@KingsMom831 Like Warwick quotes" Horses know when you know and know when you Don't" maybe a Tom Dorrance quote I forget!
@@kathym6211 yes! I think it is a Tom Dorrance quote 😊
This has got to be one of the most helpful, informative, and thorough videos on how to de-sesensitize in this way. It is literally a game changer with how I will be working with my horses from now on. It has been a personal journey as well as a horsemanship journey following along. As my friend Dana would say: "connection before direction". #journeyon20
I'm so incredibly grateful to you for sharing so much of your knowledge. I'm working to become a horse trainer and instructor myself over here in the Netherlands and everything I've learnt from you is fundamentally changing my way of looking at horses and horse training. I've tried to learn from many horse trainers, and they teach me what practical skill, task or exercise to do when. In contrast, you teach me true psychology and principles, which in my opinion is way more vital to true horsemanship, because it teaches me to understand how my horse thinks.
This was vital in our retraining of our own horse, that we bought as problem horse because she used to freeze up and "close her shutters", she wouldn't be present anymore. Then, she might explode and rear and throw herself backwards. A sweet horse but with very dangerous explosions every now and then. We've completely restarted her using many of your principles, and right now, she even teaches six year old kids how to ride a horse, because she's simply totally okay with the world and she's super careful with her rider.
I specifically chose this video to leave this comment on, because your unique way of looking at (de)sensitising is something that's made a huge difference to me. You're only explaining this here and now, but this is how I've been doing it for a while (and I've seen you do it too), and listening to her has made the biggest difference to us. She feels seen and heard, and it's made her keep seeing and listening too.
Thank you.
#journeyon20
G'day Eline, thanks for your response! You have won yourself a free Year subscription! Just send me an email with your information and I'll get you sorted.
warwick@warwickschiller.com
Go Elaine you sound like you'll be an amazing trainer!! It's so fulfilling watching the impact you can have and the ripple effect can be huge
I love this approach, because it is a little different to many other ways of desensitizing. Some of the more "usual" ways may work fine for more laidback breeds and types, but don't work so well for more sensitive reactive horses. I have been guilty of going well past a horses level of comfort when desenstizing, because I was following what I believed at the time was the best way to do it
I have been watching horse videos for years trying to figure out how to do what you and other trainers do who are trying to respect the horse but this is the first video that has finally nailed it for me! Thank you so much!
The beauty in it for me was that you isolated the reason for and route to the connection needed between you and the horse for the horse to agree to allow you to be its leader, which is that you "hear" the horse and then respond to their feelings by not violating them. Then, the horse knows that it has been "heard", then s/he begins to trust you. Then, s/he is willing to give over to your leadership (due to its nature that it needs a leader to protect him/her).
I love the phenomenal paradoxical nature of this kind of desensitizing ... that it is really sensitizing, but in a different way - instead of sensitive meaning fear, it means knowledge. It is a route to the horse engaging with the thing it fears so that it no longer fears it. And I love the contrast made between that process and learning to ignore that which it fears... which in reality is just submerging their fears ... so they could always come back up again ... as they do all the time!
Thank you again!
I believe this technique can be used with any vertebrate animal (with some modifications for species that are less visually oriented, of course...you could use a sound signal, for instance). I saw a fellow who used this technique to acclimate young monitor lizards (related to goannas) to human presence, and then to being handled. These lizards are alert, active visual predators, but the young ones are prey too and can be very flighty. He didn't know the name for it either, but he'd figured out that it worked. He got those lizards to calmly accept handling on any part of the body, and target-trained them too.
Fascinating! I love that there is an actual term for what I've been doing
My polo buds used to say that horses are like cats: " They notice that you notice..."
Great vids, much thanks!
CAT-H in reference to dogs, is Counter Aggressive Training for dogs that have been abused, used in dog fighting or even Aggressive training to Protect drugs. So some rescues have adopted this to prevent euthanasia of the animal. I know this because I used to breed, raise and train Rottweiler dogs with my husband, who has since passed away, for Search and Rescue or Assistance Dogs. They are a naturally protective breed. Like the Pit Bull, another one of the misunderstood breeds. It is always up to the person on the end of the leash that can make a dog "aggressive" or not. Again, like horses, They know when you know, And they know when you don't. Best Regards and Stay Safe Everyone!! From Ontario, Canada, Jenn. 💖 💖 🇨🇦
Really good stuff as I know from personal experience. Would recommend this method to anyone. You have to pay attention to the horses reaction
Can’t wait to try this!
Love it !!
Thank you for the “holy grail” Warwick. This is so timely for me. Can’t wait to try it. Two days later: The horse we’ve raised for the past 4 years, who’s 6 now has been aggressive with his mouth/teeth ever since we got him. I’ve tried many techniques, clicker training, and countless hours with him and it’s better but still there. When I don’t try to suppress it it’s back. He swipes at touch, grooming, whips, and mounting. Yesterday I tried the CAT-H with the carrot stick wand. I enjoyed slowing down and tuning into where he gets reactive/agressive( ear pinning and lashing out with his teeth, a more subtle reactions too). He also moves toward the stick/object to bite it. So I had to guess what to do. I backed the stick off and held it there just out of reach. I wonder if I should hold it here and let him bite it? I’d love to have some coaching on this.
Thank you !
Love, love, love!!
This video is so releasing. I think you are aware Warwick Shiller, of how much you mean. You wonderful soul thanks for existing and thanks to Rebecca Gilbert to have done your name to me! I am sooo grateful. I will return back to life this. Count on it.
I like this.I like the fact that it teaches awareness to the subtle signs from the Horse.its quiet communication.
Thank you. You make it so clear how to build connection!
I am so happy you introduced me to this concept. It works so great.
I love this so much! I think it is such a win for the horses!
Careful observation. A subtle but essential skill.
Really great thanks💚💛
This “technique” is the ONLY way I have gotten anywhere with my 11 year old mustang. As long as I stay under his threshold he is very compliant. He’s big so he’s quite intimidating when he’s fired up on his guard. Keeping him relaxed has built his trust waaaaaay faster. I think I lost his trust by doing it the other way and it took a year of learning together to gain it back
@@metalkingtohorses very forgiving🥰
Thank you Warwick it just speaks to me and consolidates my own thoughts as someone who's worked with tramuatised children it's all very similar and I find myself using lots of techniques I've used with kids for communication feeling valved and heard lifts the spirit!! It's amazing how similar we all are. Humans and animals
This work is so important, helpful, and well explained. Thank you.
Love this, better than desensitizing. Thank you!❣️🍀
This is wonderful. I would love to see more demonstrations on this.
This is awesome!
I never even knew I was using this already, hah!
I came upon it from watching your Dixie series, and watching the other girl doing this while having Dixie become more comfortable with things on her face. I used the same process for my very face-shy mare with great success!
As someone who's obsessed with horses and their behavior, first let me say thanks for the videos and sharing your knowledge!! I'm not a horse trainer, but a horse watcher. I have several and I love them. I feel like you're many levels above someone like Clinton Anderson, Monty Roberts, and many others who people seem to revere, etc. I believe I heard you say in a podcast or video that you used to be more like the "natural horsemanship" type but now are going into the more mental side of the horse. It seems like you've come to where you are after many years of experience with thousands of different horses. What about those of us who likely won't ever handle more than 10 or 12 horses in 10 yrs? Is there hope of ever learning to do it right? It's 3am and I can't sleep because I'm thinking about a horse.
Yes, that why I have over 650 full length videos on my subscription, icluding a "Human factor " playlist where I help with the mindset side of things.
G _day Warwick from Ireland 🤠
wow...im learning a whole new level of approach...and most people miss the slightest try...in this case when the horse started blinking after he locks onto the flag...the blinking is a try...it's also a signal to remove the PRESSURE of the flag being present...
You did this with the mare who hated to be haltered. I have learned so very much about horse communication from watching you and a couple others. Once you are tuned in, horses are actually quite noisy (😄).
When you were working with the mare you approached her, saw her flick an ear back to you, and backed off immediately. Kept going from there but I highly recommend that video to others who want to further explore this method. It has changed my life.
Dear Warwick,
I am so very grateful for what you’ve taught me, not only about horses, but about having a different kind of mindset and energy towards all kinds of things.
I wish I could introduce you to my horses and them to you!
Greetings from Blue, Sultan and Eva
Horses, dogs, humans don’t care how much you know; they care how much you care...
What? Horses are not anything like humans or dogs. Horses care what you know not how much you care. This is easily proven.
I just came to let you know that your ads have started showing up for me on random non related videos. (anti JW one hahaha)
I'm so glad you started advertising, you deserve to be more well known for the horses. x
Please please please do a video about how to help the people with the horse. People ask for my help, the results are great-sometimes amazing-and the person poopoos the method, minimizes the result that they couldn’t get(battling with the horse ie trailers) and become defensive and blaming the horse still. You are so good with the people too. What do you do when the person gets what they wanted and then rejects the how and why? Thank you!!!
I have hours and hours of clinic footage on my website of me working with people ?
@@WarwickSchiller yes you really do and I study you : ) .. what do you do if they resist it all, dismiss it, or reject it outright? I just loaded an ‘impossible’ horse - and he’s happy, but she argues with me… maybe i give the vibe bc it happens all the time…
Good for lots of things. Fly spray is not only an object but a "spraying" sound. I will use just water in a spray bottle so as not to waste the fly spray Once they are ok with the bottle being near I wave the bottle around their body and even make a "spraying" sound with my mouth before actually spraying all in small approximations. Glad you are going in the direction you are going with honoring the horses feelings. Thankyou for these videos
When you take them away from the object or pull the object away after their positive response, how do you know to reintroduce it again or walk to it again?
I'd love to see this example with washing a horses face. Seeing where/when to stop and when to retreat, and then when to try again. My Grey geldings faces is getting pretty brown & green since the rain.
Thank you!
❤️🌵☀️⛈️🌈☮️🐎
Constructional aggression treatment (CAT) was presented by Dr. Jesus Rosales-Ruiz and Kellie Snider, M.S. in 2007 at the University of North Texas as a new approach (treatment) to dog aggression-related issues. - It seems the CAT-H is not really a good term for what you are doing, but I like this sort of approach / release without going into a fear state. I use this a lot with my horses, particularly one with poor eye sight. I added in a voice where with a particular tone say "It's okay, You're okay". It's a soothing tonal voice. He has learned trust, so that when he starts to worry and tense up that often I can just say "You're okay" and he holds without going over edge and then relaxes again. I try to do a lot at liberty, so they have a choice to stay or not. When they hold and trust and stay and then relax, then am happy. He has really poor eye sight.
Hi Warwick I am big fan of your ways. Specifically how you explain things so interesting. At the moment I am training a horse for somebody. She is quite frozen. She looks really quite but out of nowhere she can take of. I noticed that she has lot of wrinkles auround here mouth well working she also has not much ear movement. So I think she hold quite few rabbit. Every time a step up the mountain block and I see here head raise I will get my self of the mountain block. I did this for a hour after that I put here back in here stable the next day I started off the same afthere few times I apply the cat-h everytime she raised her head I would stay in the same place till she game back down started at the beginning again. I noticed that she has no more wrinkles around here mouth and more ear movement. For safety reason I question my self if there is risk of here getting back in here old habit of not communicating when she starts to be come concerned. The first session we did she really clear about when she was concerned. When Start with cat-h it wasn't so clearly as first session. I wonder if I shut go back in my training so I can show here again that she is allowed to show here concerned I will respond and slow down. What do you think do I apply it correctly and do need to go back or is she just over here fear so quickly cheers Suze
True desensitization involves pairing something unknown or frightening with something positive. Habituation is getting an animal used to something because it's there, and pretty much stays there. And you do small approximations (steps) to get there. Most people actually do neither correctly, but that's because there is a lack of knowledge. Thank you for bringing in the science. As a zookeeper I really enjoy what you're bringing to the horse world. When I tell people you can get a giraffe to come in from it's pasture/exhibit, and stand for a farrier session with zero restraint used they don't believe me... until they see the videos. The techniques you're using are very similar, and it's really fun to watch you do it in the horse world.
Thanks.
Your definition is actually the definition of counter-conditioning (pairing a frightening or aversive stimulus with something positive.) Desensitization is gradual exposure, but does not involve pairing. The two are often used together. Gradual exposure, paired with something positive.
@@sini4kettu you are 100% correct. That was lazy terminology on my part. We are expected to desensitize our animals daily via counter-conditioning. As we are constantly asked "are you desensitizing" I lazily/accidentally wrote that instead of how we accomplish that. Or rather are you making sure desensitization is occurring would be more accurate. Thanks for catching it 😉
Very nice and very usefull for things you have control over yourself, but how to get horses over their fear towards subjects/situations where you d o n ' t have control over because they're happening/approaching you in 'real life' ?
I would suggest using this method as much as you can at home where they feel safe, with as many different things as you can think of. Then if something 'new' shows up somewhere else, you have already taught them how to deal with, and regulate their own reaction. And if something really scary is approaching you that you don't have control over, you always have the choice to leave the area.
I would recommend thinking of whatever scares/worries you the most and set up training for those things at home. I took my horses to parades for many years...the ultimate of "not having control" over things. We set up parade trainings at a local barn, enlisting friends to help with shopping carts, bicycles, kids running up and down bleachers, loudspeakers, trucks on the stable driveway, bicycles, and even a Harley-Davidson. We used the "follow the scary thing" technique first, gradually moving on to having the scary thing on ether side, and finally the scary thing passing from behind. (See Warwick's video on training horses for traffic using a friend with a pickup truck).
Hi Warwick,I have being doing rewarding when my Connemara looked at concerning things, I would approach the object,when he started to get concerned I would stop and stay there till he got relaxed a bit,then take the object away,then reward,as my boy seems to want a little extra to reinforce positive thoughts and now he nickers when I bring out the saddle and bridle,dressage whip and work in the arena,it really helped me,what do you think? appreciate your feedback am I creating a Cookie Monster,or a bad habit?
Think of it this way, a "cookie monster" is a horse that thinks begging/shoving/etc will work to get the reward, just like a horse that bucks or rears has learned that those behaviors get the reward of removing pressure/getting to rest. A food treat releases happy brain chemicals the same way a big release-and-relaxation does, so if you manage treats the same way you manage letting him rest, he should quickly learn that being rude doesn't get him what he wants.
Interesting I have done something not exactly cat -h but similar to this to a terrified pony I’m attempting to train
My horse is very attracted to the flag, stick, or whip used as a training aide.. When he sees it, he wants to have it to chew on. How can I teach him to keep his mouth off the tool I am holding? He does this with the muck rake handle when I am in the stall as well. He will also wants to chew on his reigns or lead rope when being led around.
How would i desensitise against pigeons jumping out of tue bushes
(Learner here) How does this translate to later when there’s scary stuff that the horse doesn’t have control over? Like a noisy dirt bike…
Will this work for a mare that does not like her udder touched?
advance/approach and retreat in some philosophies
Fabulous end note.
I have a ptsd, rescue paso that does not want to take the bit.
He's good with many of the ground we have done, I am comfortable on the ground with him, just needed a gentle way to get him to take the bit.
Other issue:
He starts at the slightest touch of the reigns when attempting to mount.
I can take hold of his mane, but that's not a good way to mount a horse if I can't take hold of the reigns first.
Anyone?
1) ride bitless for as long as it takes, and eventually try the gentlest bit you can, i like the double jointed bean loose ring snaffle. 2) work on bending just the head to the side, and do this after mounting too. Slow down, and take one step at a time. Step one being, taking "ahold" of the reins, which should be mostly the inside rein, not both. Step two, picking up (not tightly) on the rein, and stepping into the saddle. Do this several times before actually mounting.
As far as that threshold goes, what is a good starter (before the flag) exercise for building a habit/rapport with the horse of not overbearing their thresholds and worrying them? ATM I am doing my best at CAT-H but with scary areas in the arena with hand walking as, horse is a restart from the ground up basically. Any tips would be appreciated. 😁
The threshold does t have to be the tool ( in this case the flag). I start with the flag, from a couple of hundred feet away and attack their attention with it
@@WarwickSchiller I see! Thank you sir! I’ve just found your videos tonight. Been binge watching ever since, and you’ve given me lots of ideas on how to help this new mare I have, after not having a horse in 6 years. I appreciate the speedy reply as well! 😁
This information is in dog training material. Stay under threshold. Some use a screen or curtain.
I do this, didn't know it has a name.
How young is “ too young” to start this training? I have a 5 month filly I would like to start. ( 1st time baby owner)
Tried this with a flag today, my mare was falling asleep. still won't get to being touched anywhere but her face but nodding off is pretty relaxed right 😅
That's called habituation :)
Ha ha! Been doing this for years. Now I have a name for it
www.training-your-dog-and-you.com/constructional_aggression_treatment.html
Link to explanation of CAT for aggressive dogs.
C stands for canine
Constructional
Just another way of explaining approach has a different retreat a method used by Parelli for the last 35 years.
This appears to be the classic 'approach and retreat' concept. Am I missing something?
Canine?
Poop equals relaxation too
I know that you know that I know you know... :-)
Right ?
Mr Schiller if you walk away with the flag and you let the owner and horse follow you and your flag the horse will not be worried and get used to the flag. Being an animal of prey anything that comes toward you is dangeous (could eat you) anything that moves away from you is safe. So safe to follow and get used to. In this case the flag. Works every time.
Canine? ;)
Everytime you turned your back on him he'd drop his head😁
CAT-H = Constructional Approach Training for Horses.
Can't this unfortunately also teach horses that making a fuss takes away whatever they don't want to deal with?
You'd think so, but no it doesnt if you do it right. If your timing is wrong its possible.
@@WarwickSchiller Wow, thanks for the personal reply, Mr. Schiller! :)
It's great to see new perspectives on old fashioned training ideas. I'd been taught the "flooding" technique of desensitizing, but I can definitely see how this fits better with the "release=reward" concept.
@@elisabethandersen1102 This video is a couple of years old, but shows how it works, and you will see that even though this isnt exactly CAT-H, it explains your concern
ruclips.net/video/U5vhkHKz274/видео.html
@@WarwickSchiller Love the concepts---Have no idea how I would scale this to the 12 horses I'm about to start that need to be broke for anyone to ride in 3 months. The results speak for themselves but I would have to charge significantly more to justify the time.
@@lakestreet69 it really doesn’t take any longer. Initially it does but the trust you get from them doing this Carrie’s over into every other interaction and makes it easier.
He is pooping stress and the flag is away...
Its a long way to go from flags to grain combines and tractor trailers...
You start with the small things and work up to the big noisy ones.
The more things the horse is tolerant of, the less likely it is to panic as something new.
@@lazygardens My horse seems to have days when I can drive him down the road and nothing seems to bother him. Then yesterday we went down the road, and he acted like he was looking for things to be spooked by. He's just not consistently calm. It's kind of dangerous when we're out in traffic and he freezes up, and acts like he wants to run home.
@@spartaeus Are you aware of the little signs of tension from the moment you are in range of him? My guess is that there is tension that is being overlooked on those inconsistent days.
@@WarwickSchiller My horse is dead calm most of the time. In fact he's kind of lazy. Unless we're going down the road and he sees something like a grain harvester or loud truck. Then he tenses up and wants to get way over, or sometimes he wants to turn around. He also doesn't like it when large dogs like pyrenees size dogs come out barking and growling at him. He speeds up, sometimes breaking into a fall gallop. This is when he's pulling a buggy. I can stop him with the reins and brakes, but it's kind of tense for me. Gets kind of scary sometimes.
@@spartaeus I can imagine it's scary! Check out Warwick's video on training horses for traffic using a friend with a pickup truck; I have used the same technique very successfully to get horses used to all types of vehicles, including emergency vehicles with sirens, tractors, and other farm equipment. I also do lots of acclimation to dogs at home. I guess I was lucky to have neighbors with big dogs that would come up to the fence and bark (including a big Pyrenees cross). The fences were secure, so I could gradually bring the horse up to the fence using this same technique. It didn't take long before the horse would stand there right next to the dog, looking at the dog like "Why are you so noisy?" (I have found that horses can acclimate rather quickly to things that are "big, noisy, and out in the open" because this is the opposite of how a predator acts)...as long as you use the correct technique, as shown here.
14:36
Beautiful 10:30 💋💞love u💋💞