"Rockism" is killing music (it might be too late...)
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Rockism is killing music. I look at examples from Post Malone, Falling In Reverse, MGK and more.
Edited by Tim Gilli: bit.ly/tmgprmba
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0:00 Intro
1:52 What is rockism?
4:06 Post Malone
6:36 Falling In Reverse
11:59 Autotune and "flops"
15:16 MGK & producers 
Развлечения
![Woo-hoo!: How Blur Mocked Grunge & Destroyed Britpop ["Song 2"] | New British Canon](/img/1.gif)
We all know that music peaked exactly when my adolescence ended and everyone else is wrong
Hahahaha!!!
I was born after the 80s but will say the best music came from that decade
I graduated high school in early 2000s, pretty terrible years for music during height of commercial radio and just before the death of CDs. I easily prefer 2010s music to the time around my adolescence.
@@iyziejaneI’m the exact opposite of you lol I graduated in 2014 and love early 2000s music way more than the music coming out in the 2010s
The best music is always what was popular around the time you first got laid.. Chris Rock
"Why do we need new bands? Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact."-Homer Simpson
You sir, won the internet today!
Test one test two test three test four, you test me like the water in El Salvador
@@davidclay2362 WOO! EL SALVADOR
Dad? Is that you?
It was my dad guys, surfing internet again
I agree with most of your points here, the one thing I don't fully agree with is the live performance thing, like yeah don't limit an artist on if they can use backing tracks, but what annoys me is when a band actually can't play their instruments as well as their studio released songs, I really think some artists are just not meant to be live performers, especially if they can't actually play the songs they've released.
Or the point of Avenged Sevenfold having 8 guitars tracks on studio versions and couldn't do it live. That's the challenge though and what I want to see when I watch a band live. I want to see how they play that same part with only two guitars and still make it sound great. I don't want it to sound the same live as on album, but I want them to succeed in making it sound good in a different way.
I would agree if it actually came up with any significant frequency. How many bands can’t play their own songs? I can think of maybe one pianist.
Motley cru might be the most famous example of this.
If vocals are an instrument then there are loads of examples, but my mind went to death core guitarists trying to make the most intricate riffs in tuxguitar or something but need help to record it, and then can't play it live.
Kim Dracula
I hate the term Rockism because its tenets are not specific to rock music, and can be applied to all genres and even all art in general. Also, a lot of the points come across as straw man fallices the way they are applied as rock specific statements. A lot of people have a favorite genre or styles of music and feel like its better than other styles/genres. Generational divides happen all the time, in other genres. Hell, progressive rock was invented to fight back against the idea of old boomer Jazz elitist.
Now that’s irony, considering how SOME people put prog rock as the greatest thing ever while dismissing everything else
Prog rock was incorporating elements of jazz and classical to make more complex music, so kind of bucking against basic rockism in its own way.
I dont think I have ever in my life considered how well an album has sold. I cant imagine ever caring. If I like it: I like it.
If you want to keep hearing from those people you like, you should care. Artists who don't sell songs stop making music and get other jobs.
@@perfectallycromulent Not really bothered about that either. The music that's out there already exists. That's good enough for me.
Also, most bands I listen to have other jobs anyway.
@@perfectallycromulentmost musicians have real jobs and make music out of passion
@@ElectricMonkey99so the world just needs professional music critics but no professional musicians? Nice. Let’s all just argue about increasingly shitty art
@@Oneoneone111OneWhat, musicians who have side jobs dont count as professional musicians to you?
Think you missed his point there, bud.
Rockists are posers too. Everyone knows real music is one-man black metal recorded on a 4 track in the basement of a cabin in Northern Finland during the dead of winter. And if anyone hears those tapes before the artist self-deletes, they're posers too.
Incorrect. Every TRUE music fan knows that one-man black metal is just conformist garbage. The only real music is old Gregorian chants that have never been tainted by a physical medium like paper or tape.
😂😂😂
Trve cvlt ⛪️🔥
But what if you like Burzum and Drake?
Hail Sata drive (i dont want get restricted by yt bots f yt bots)
Another thing that might drive _some_ these 'rockists': They actually care about their culture and don't want the entire scene and artform to be replaced by all sorts of new tech-gimmicks every other year. They want it to have some semblance of a natural nerve instead of being diluted into some piece of automation.
When we look at history, it's not a usual things for every cultural facet to be replaced every year or decade, because an industry wants to throw it all out to make something else cool and replace entire culture after a few years. And the industry rules most of it and determines what people think are cool. It's controlled top-down.
I will wear this "rockist" badge with pride. Or "elitist" or whatever. Doesn't bother me one bit.
Then why did it take black metal til about 2006 to get super popular and since has clung to dear life stagnating the so called "true metal" scene for almost 20 years Cas the whiney fan boy needs paint themselves into a corner and are so terrified some other need might call them a poser that they don't accept any change whatsoever. I turned my back on metal because of this, I'd rather listen to fun bands that don't take shit so seriously and know that their own shit stinks too than deal with intolerable metal fans who hate all but the all mighty Noroija.
Maybe, but it's no different than any other "get off my lawn" mentality. Rock music itself changed dramatically every 5-10 years thanks to technological innovation. Would all those 80s guitar shredders have been able to pull off half their chops if Floyd Rose hadn't invented the locking tremolo in the late 70s? Are rock drummers even possible if Gene Krupa hadn't pioneered the setup of the modern drum kit? Before the digital synthesizer, if you were a rock keyboardist and weren't part of a massive touring act like Emerson Lake and Palmer or Styx, you were lucky if you could take one keyboard on the road: organ, piano, mellotron--that's it. Rick Allen of Def Leppard probably has to quit drumming after his accident if the electronic drum kit isn't invented.
">>Rockism
Its high time we emp all the ai server rooms.
One justified part of rockism is not wanting to pay $45 for a concert to watch someone lip sync.
No no, the man in the video clearly said it’s all the same.
Every mainstream rock band lip syncs, or has backing vocals tracks. Many use backing drum track as well.
Blame it on the rain
@@outlawrailfan129Hahaha what??
@Thornspyre81 he's completely correct. Most bands nowadays, use backing tracks or backing vocals.
I'm all for being open minded about art, but it's incredibly rich for Lizzo to call anyone else an asshole after the stunts she pulled against her staff.
Yea it's an L take to side with this lady after all the stuff she's done.
@@Christian-eq7uh finn always has some really bad takes
Not to mention that she shamelessly glorifies obesity, something which has quite literally been proven to kill people.
i thought it was not proven?
Somehow this is Rock purists fault
Sum 41’s acceptance from some hard rock and metal fans wasn’t merely due to then name dropping Iron Maiden. They sounded closer to metal than Blink or any of their pop punk contemporaries. Their guitarist was also influenced by technical players like EVH, which really comes through in the solos.
Look at you, proving the entire premise of his video as correct.🤣
I didn't care about the musicianship and the metal influence, which was kind of a novelty add-on for them early on. Sum 41 had great songs and didn't seem like egotistical douchebags. Recipe for success.
Also, they had Kerry King in their video
I never accepted them. They sucked then and they suck now.
@@residentpotato6023 Exactly. You should be able to just like them, or not, based on what you like.
But if you hate the hater, doesn’t that make you equal?
“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
-Robert E Howard
So who are the civilized and who are the savages according to this video?
Point of the quote wasn’t to identify civilized vs savages. We live in a civilized time where people feel comfortable behind their keyboards saying things to others that, in times past, would have gotten their skills split, or at least gotten a beat down.
That was my point.
I learned a new great quote.
@OneSuaveDevil Why not use your own words in the first place. I wonder if you dug through the internet to find something catchy.
And I didn't even read it. But if you use other people's words, you're not able to claim any of that. Instead, you should prepare for critics or say something that comes from your mind, and that one can appreciate. You made a comment later on. Do that before
@@SupJax This is a comment so dumb it's worth being discourteous to.
Its all about Crabcore, we wouldn't have jazz without crabcore, we wouldnt have opera and classical music in the 1600's without crabcore and we wouldnt have the golden age of hiphop without crabcore,
What the Hell is Crabcore ?
@@stevenworyk3532 ah, you must be new around here
True Attack Attack walked so Mozart and Elvis could run
Haha same, please explain Crabcore for us 😅
@@stevenworyk3532 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crabcore
I think the thing with a lot of producers is that its never marketed that way. Its marketed as an album by MGK. Its supposed to be his creative vision. And then when he has a whole army of people who helped him people start to wonder if its really MGK's creative vision, or the creative vision of the label that hired all the producers.
Talking about marketing and MGK, I say it's a problem when they try to force new stuff down your throat, and try so hard to make the impression that it's the next new thing you just HAVE to know. Maybe it's more hipster than rockist, but this kinda turns me off from the start, sets way too high expectations, and then, when the music is just ok or even when it's good, that's just not enough.
Went to a festival last year with a few friends, where MGK headlined one day, and our reaction to that ranged from "Who is that? Never heard the name" to "How is this new dude headlining on a day when band X,Y and Z also play". Our two camping neighbours though where there mainly for two bands, MGK being one of them. They also were like, 19 and had never been on a festival due to the pandemic... So, I guess it's rockist as hell, but in my mind I will keep referring to MGK as Marketing Machine Guy Kelly, the dude they implanted in everyone's head via a hail of marketing bullets.
Unabashed rockist here.
I can respect the work that goes into producing a pop album or show. No disrespect to performers putting on a great show and giving an audience a good time. On the other hand, it's hard to take somebody seriously as a musician if they aren't doing the vast majority of the work of actually creating and performing the music.
In my opinion if the lyrics were written by somebody else and the music is coming from a computer or a hired band, the singer is a performer and not a musician. That doesn't mean a crowd can't or shouldn't enjoy it, but it's not for me.
Obviously this exists on a spectrum. There are legit artists who create music on (or aided by) a computer, but they're doing a lot of the production work, and on stage they're performing their own music live.
I don't really care if a live performance is album-clean though. I think that's part of the magic of live music. Each show is unique, flaws and all. Though it's pretty garbage if a band straight up can't play their own music live.
Also, a lot of people don't care about all that stuff, and that's fine too. If they only care about hearing something catchy and seeing an attractive person onstage performing it, then there's plenty of room for them too. That's always been the soul of pop music, and it's popular for a reason.
Counterpoint:
Traditionally, singing, songwriting, playing instruments, and producing were all separate jobs.
It wasn't until recent years that those things started seriously overlapping. And that just it makes it more impressive when somebody does multiple things (or all of it) well. That does NOT mean it should be the default expectation.
Also there are artists like Mick Gordon or Celldweller who (even in rock music) are embracing studio production techniques, sound design and electronic innovation to do things in studio environments that sound EPIC, but CAN'T be done live.
Celldweller live is one guy playing one instrument at a time and singing over a backing track.. because he handles all the instruments, vocals, and production work himself.
You basically want everyone to be like Celldweller but you'd hate his live show. Isn't that ironic?
"In my opinion if the lyrics were written by somebody else and the music is coming from a computer or a hired band, the singer is a performer and not a musician"
If they actually sing they are a musician. That's like saying an orchestra isn't full of musicians because they are performing a classical piece. If you're talking about something like a dancer that lip syncs everything I'd agree. There's a fine line there. If every single thing is pre-recorded and mimed that's an issue.
OK Boomer
What about a rock band where the vast majority of songs are not written by the singer, such as Iron Maiden or Dream Theater? In both those cases their singers have written less than 10 songs out of their extensive 20+ years of discography. Singers are musicians because they sing music
@@enterthehacksAs a huge Deftones fan, i would say they fall into that category as well, even though they are a 5 man band. What makes most of their albums awesome and the sound unique are achieved through Terry Date's top tier production, and their performance live (especially Chino's vocals) just feel super inferior.
There's a level. I saw a band last year that straight up didn't care. For good lengths of time, the guitarists and bassist didn't bother strumming or fretting - and the music didn't change one iota. Their stage instruments were 100% backing tracks. Essentially, the performance was just karaoke. Yes, the general audience still LOVED the performance.
Here's the issue:
1) When backing tracks go from adding a few elements - such as orchestral thickening sounds in rock - to what I'm going to dub "forward tracks" - replacing the sound that would normally be generated by the instruments on stage - it's gone to far. This is the point where you basically have cool model looks on stage and session musicians doing all the work behind the scenes. Authenticity still matters at least a little bit. Otherwise it's just a joke some are in on it, some aren't.
Is this band one that most of us would know?
@@DinoCon Not at all. The lead singer made it to Hollywood week on American Idol. They are capitalizing on the 15 minutes of regional fame.
Yea, just look to “Grimes’s” recent “performance” at Coachella…
This only matters if you let charts dictate your musical taste. Music is around. It will be around long after we forget how to spell blibroad.
You be spelin da isht Outage dem words, yo. Word.😂
Gotta say Finn, first time your gonna get a hard disagree from me. Totally agree with the idea that all music should not be compared to rock or that rock is the most authentic music. But, use of backing tracks and producers/songwriters is different.
Your whole backing track argument seems very picky and choose. If all you care about it the best sound possible, the band should just go up there and mime. Why does one live guitar justify the use of 6 backing tracks? The Falling in Reverse thing was weird cause it just felt like they threw in the towel so quickly. People use to say "The show must go on", but they didnt even try to pull something out. Why not play a "stripped down" set with just the band or even acoustic set?
And the producer/songwiter thing is crazy. How can we even call someone an "artist" if they arent making their art? If they didnt write the song and didnt play the music, how are they an artist? Your movie comparison was not a good one, cause no one involved in a movie is going around acting like they made the whole thing themselves. But there are plenty of "artists" performing other peoples words as their own. IMO, there is a huge difference between music made by a lone musician and music made by 15 people under one persons name. It just a lie and it should be called out.
I feel that especially as the music industry is staring down the barrel of AI, authentic art is more important than ever. Some of the arguments you made in this video will soon be made by people trying to justify and pass off an AI generated piece of sound as their music. Should those people really be called "artists"? Should those people ever be held in the same regard as those who came before? The day that happens the music industry in truly dead.
Its a slippery slope, people like you with big followings need to be carful what they endorse.
Well said
Amen
Yes, great points. Thank you!
correct and good
If I may add something, not everyone who prefers people who play are being snobs, there is such a thing as preferring that. I respect so much the bands that adjust to missing pieces by creating a different version of it live, to the point where sometimes a member leaves the band and they figure out how to make it work.
My vision is: to play is to be vulnerable to mistakes. When I was a kid even a fancy pedal was frowned upon. Nothing wrong with gadgets, but the “how much of the song” you are playing is outright determined by your agency when playing live.
A lesson I learned about 4 years ago has stuck with me. A dear friend of mine was sharing with me a song that meant a lot to here. Before she played it, i made fun of Greenday, and you can imagine what I said. The song she played... was Greenday. From that day in, I never judged another person by what music they love. I still may not like Greenday, but I am happy there is someone out there who is touched by their music.
In the larger scheme of things, with AI soon to swamp the streaming services, the idea of people actually playing an instrument and playing it live will likely be a huge validation of being human and not AI
Omg I see people complaining on reddit about their ai songs being removed from streaming platforms. I'm like, why and how could you ever claim ai work as your work? You're not an artist, you're a computer generated garbage curator
@@ItsJustAdreanwhat do you mean "computer generated garbage curator"
ultimately i'm curious if you are describing people who have a stream of various ai creations made by others
or if you are describing people who make the music with ai
@@s33wagz People who use AI do not "make" anything and that's exactly the point. The AI makes it for you because you're lazy.
The guy in this video, if we follow his reasoning, would say, "No one should be complaining about going to see a live show where the band members are basically just mimes following along with ai generated music. Like, what's there to even be mad about?"
@@SineEyed AI generated music and real human-made backing tracks are not the same thing! I would certainly be mad if I found out no effort was put into a show like that.
There's just no comparison between a human-made synth line, guitar part, or vocal, and AI generated JUNK. The only place AI generated crap has is memes, like Frank Sinatra singing about being physically incapable of wiping his ass. But I GUARANTEE you the labels will be using it to chuck out shovelware music. Just you wait and see.
As always, the underground music scene will remain where art is raw and real.
Finn showed up with the gloves off! I was curious what shift would happen after your channel update a few weeks ago. This is an exciting direction. Not only was the subject matter engaging, I don't think I've heard that kind of energy in your voice in several months. Keep going with these passion projects!
Nerds need to hear it
inn dropping social science on this rockism trope. Frankly rockism existed long before rock and roll, and as much as I wish it will go away, it will always be here in some form. Whenever and wherever there are artists making art, there are going to be haters dissing on it.
Wish I could give this more than 1 thumb up. Lol I agree!!!
I have loved the subject matter. Fist vid he did was about type o and its been a wild ride from there
I agree with a lot of what you said, but, for me at least, authenticity and originality will never stop being important. It's the reason you can have innovation in popular music at all.
Live performances prove to some people that a band isn’t just a computer generated song (computer generated guitars, drums and bass, auto tune). In some generes like reggaeton and rap, concert goers get bummed when the artist is just yelling some words or lines from the song and the song is just being played in the background with vocals and all.
Rockism is literally the new jazzism over 50 years ago. A prime example is Miles Davis was called a sell out for going electric or what qualify as jazz or "authentic jazz".
Same thing happened to Bob Dylan for using an electric and turning his back on “real folk”
Yes, well said, great analogy
Same for Herbie Hancock
As human beings we never seem to learn from our mistakes.
As a massive rock/metal fan, let me tell you jazz and classical music beat rock in many ways. Especially classical music.
Another rockism trope i can't stand. Musicianship is a competition.
preeeach!
True! None of my favorite artists are the best at what they do.
This one is quite hilarious to me, because musicians with this mindset typically SUCK.
They're so "cool" and "authentic", but you'll NEVER see them play at church, a jazz or blues jam, or anywhere where they have to play with people they don't know, in a situation where they have little control.
They're usually the same clowns talking trash online about great players, too.
I def blame American Idol for that.
Everybody knows that playing more notes makes a composition better! \s
is it "rockism" if someone uses a AI text to music program to make a song instead of hand crafting it themselves? People are entitled to their opinion weather it's rockism or not.
Yeah, I say especially in times of AI, playing live is like the only "prove" we have that a band even exists.
Dude! It is about recognizing that mainstream media music is DESTROYING music by stomping out the ability for kids to hear Real Music created by Real Musicians. IT uses its wealth to completely saturate radio and TV with big media corporately made music, to make money on it while sacrificing the Artist. It is INSANE that in 2024 we are still living in an era where you have to basically have to have tape-trading amongst friends to spread Real bands - often real rock / metal bands ie musicians playing real instrument music that is composed by the bands themselves - or the kids just won't ever get a chance to hear it!! They will NEVER get to hear any of them through mainstream media, so they grow up basically indoctrinated to listen to hip hop and whatever the Corporate Music Industry has decided to saturate the market with. THAT is a problem!!
I couldn't agree more. Well said. Truly sad times were living in all the way around.
Yea exactly!
i'm p sure finn did an earlier video about how much radio consolidation is responsible for so much music being less accessible.
like if you're not terminally on spotify or youtube doing the work of sampling everything new that comes out, or you don't know anyone who wears merch from bands that are secretly kinda successful off the mainstream, you won't have much idea what's going on past the iheart and... what, the one other one which owns half the stations, play. it's a lot smaller than it was 20y ago and i hate waking up to the same red hot chili peppers and nirvana songs i got ready for school to on my clockradio. it's weird and depressing.
i learned a lot of the bands i loved in high school from reading peoples' shirts and patches, no lie. i'm not sure of what the modern equivalent for that is, letting a streaming service just cycle through a playlist ig but it's not curated on any mainstream level so culturally there's some detachment from who a lot of these people even are.
It's today's day and age it's what popular.. like jazz music isn't that popular anymore.. society shifts. Rock just isn't as popular as other genres with younger generations. It's ok bro.. we are getting old.
@@rezolute4249 And how much of that is due to corporate control of what people get to actually hear from mainstream media, gatekeeping people from becoming acquainted with certain styles of music? When all they are subjected to hear all day through media growing up is electronic pop and hip hop, how can they grow an ear for any other style of music?
I tell you it's all orchestrated by corporate control of the media, more than different era of people having different musical tastes due to the era itself.
My favorite rockism take is "This song is harder to play, therefore it's better"
Edit: I'll elaborate for the dense, this was sarcasm.
Lmao Dance Gavin Dance fans
Don’t know why everything has to be a contest. I thought music was about creative expression not the mfing olympics
This is true in the mathematical part of music
Based on that logic, Dragonforce would be a much better band than The Beatles or The Rolling Stones.
Unless is Polyphia. Then it's "these kids can't write songs, all they do is show off their mindless noodling"
The problem is the kids who grew up wanting to be rockstars are the same kids today who want to be RUclipsrs. The dream has changed.
Totally agree. It's much easier to build a following and make money doing social media than playing music.
The dream devolved
@@ThePunkRockMBA But also riskier. In the music business you have at least different record labels.
On youtube you have only google and if the algorithm doesn't like you, or you schedule your options are very limited.
Criticism as a means of validation is not just a music thing. It has permeated society.
I think the problem os more that they failed at being ricjstars and now look for reasons to shit on a successful musician they don't like
You don't need to be a Rock elitist to conclude that popular music today is worse than it ever was. Having a pair of ears will do.
Exactly. And why is the term focused on rock fans? Like jazz and classical fans are not hating on todays pop garbage. Funny how he keeps the term rock in his youtube name though.
When baseball players start using bionic arms and robotic equipment, or when the entire game is reduced to watching teams of unknown gamers play a baseball videogame on the jumbotron with Post Malone and Lizzo providing play-by-play, you'll be there to call us baseballists if we complain.
We live in a time where every regular person has a “voice”. However, just because you have a voice, doesn’t mean we want to hear you sing.
Punk Rock MBA wants to hear you sing. As long as you sound good on a recording he will rate it 10/10.
"Yeah nah. you the next Rolling Stones my man, trust me bro. Your effects are outta sight."
Exactly. There's way too many bands oversaturating the industry with mediocre crap.
Agree with you - but the backing track thing is considered a slippery slope - from bands that use it honestly to enhance the human/live element, and other bands (like the Eagles) who use it to lie to the crowd. We just don't like being lied to. I don't mind hearing a 100-piece orchestra that I can't see. I mind not knowing that Don freaking Henley isn't actually singing Desperado while pretending he is...
Nailed it!
Milli Vanilli? the world was asking for it.
Well put.
Backing tracks are for hacks . If you suck dont cover it up by overproducing the record or Gid forbid bringing in a session musician who can play your part better than you .weak .if you suck you suck . Some brands don’t want to sound like they’re better than they are . It’s called being authentic . Keep it real or keep it out
@@stevenworyk3532the problem with what you said is that it’s extremely rare that a band will play songs live that they struggled with in the studio. And if they did struggle with it during recording, the almost always practice it enough to the point that it’s not hard to play anymore by the time the tour starts. Every band has off nights and makes mistakes, not every show is going to sound perfect. If you think that way, you clearly don’t play any instruments and/or have never played shows or gone on tour. Backing tracks aren’t the problem. The fans that have no idea what they’re talking about yet demand unrealistic or impossible outcomes from bands are the problem.
I feel like in the case of the laptop situation, the best thing bands can do when stuff like that happens is ask the fans what they're comfortable with.
Maybe their fans would be pretty stoked to attend a large scale "Unplugged" session. Maybe they will find a new way to enjoy the band when it's more stripped down. Maybe they'd be fine with waiting a few extra days or weeks for the band to fix their problem.
I think they'd appreciate being consulted.
Most of the times when someone is writing an article or recording a rant about "music" the term they should use instead is "the mainstream", which is a topic which its mere existence I don't even care about.
Oh man, you're going to strike a nerve with a lot of people with this video (but you're 100% correct). People don't want to hear this type of content, but it's important to be addressed!
The video came out 11 minutes ago and you already watched an 18 minute video.
@@VadelGame Or I'm just very familiar with the subject at hand. Oh, and he posts videos early on Patreon, for future note.
@@ShoelessJP You didn't watch that entire vid when you made the comment dude. Lulz
@@VadelGame the video is not hard to follow. I watch this on double speed
@@TimmyTurner421 4 minutes into the video and I already know what Finn is talking about. If I already had a good understanding of the topic, I'd be able to make a comment like the original commenter did. The original commenter said something meaningful, you didn't. Stop caring so much about things that don't matter.
I'm going to disagree on two points. I think it's fine to use backing tracks and electronic equipment to get the sound you need live. It condenses a lot of the equipment you have to haul around and simplifies a lot of things. That being said there is a fine line between using it as a tool and using it as a crutch. It's like Snapchat filters. You're dressing yourself up and people know that, but there is such a thing as fans calling you out for overusing it. For example, I love Starset and they would not be able to get the theatrical IMAX sound they do without a bunch of backing tracks and electronics. But when you watch them you know they're not leaning on it to support their show.
The second is that the studio version makes me want to see a band even more. Not having access to a live band is one thing, like distance from venues or a band not hitting your city on a tour, but if a band I like is coming through I'm gonna see them. And I want them to be just as, if not better than their studio sound. That's what I love about guys like Iron Maiden, where their live performance is better than their studio one. It's perfectly acceptable to say that you weren't impressed by a band's live performance because they couldn't reproduce what they did in the studio. I wouldn't call that rockism or gatekeeping, it's just calling it out for what it is.
Nailed it!
This is also why Starset has no less than 7 performers on stage at every live show now. Of course they use any technology they can to great effect, but they also see value in having as much of that authentic, dynamic human element as possible.
EXACTLY, I second this
There is no problem with co-writers. It’s just when these artists are presented as a million dollar stock when it’s really just worth 100 dollars.
People that like rock will like music that sounds like rock and dislike music that doesn't sound like rock. It's not rocket science, or wrong. It's just what it is.
I disagree with the points presented in this video. Post-authenticity is a cleverly crafted consumer trend that makes almost everything immune to criticism. I enjoyed Post Malone's cover of "Them Bones" on Howard Stern. However, if we're being honest, it was simply a well-executed cover. It felt like watching an American Idol or The Voice contestant deliver a strong performance, but as always, it was overly polished and lacked genuine emotion.
I don't have a particular issue with backing tracks, but at recent concerts I've attended, the artists relied on them so heavily that the shows felt bland and unappealing. The music lost its dynamic quality, and it resulted in strange situations like Madonna performing to a crowd of over a million people, essentially doing karaoke.
While I prefer studio versions of songs, that doesn't mean I want to hear the studio version at a live concert. I would rather experience imperfections and mistakes than bland performances.
Exactly. This guy's video is good for calling out gatekeeping behavior but as with all things, a good balance should always be struck. I'm not particularly on either side of the rockist spectrum; a good show is a good show, good studio performances are good studio performances. The quality of the playing and the lightshows some bands do like Starset contributes to what makes a good show. But like you said, if a group relies too heavily on their tech, then it's gonna come off phoney and emotionless.
One thing I don't like about live performances is where the singer sings the song in a totally different way so that it doesn't even sound like the same song.
Sipping a 3xl yappuchino 😂
Read back your comment lmao. How many "I!"'s are in there? It's all about you isn't it? Can't be about music people enjoy the way it's played. No no, it HAS to be your way and if not you DISAGREE! Just like with the video. This is exactly what he is talking about. It's not all about you
@@_-TC Exactly!
I decided Post Malone was acceptable when I found out he plays Magic TG.
I decided he was acceptable when I heard him playing Nirvana. And then seeing him on Joe Rogan and realizing he was genuine and cool AF.
I still don't care all that much
Easy there, that's Nerdism.
@@MargoLargo307 that's right, nerd and proud, haha! Rockism is just music nerdism, though.
Mine was all the gun content he puts out with garand thumb etc 🇺🇸
I get the idea of artists occasionally co-writing and collaborating with artists/producers (it's extremely healthy), but when they don't even write their own music or have a full suite of producers/writers and they're just the artist I find that annoying. As someone who writes, produces and plays the instruments to her own rock music it bugs the hell out of me.
Eddie is talking about main vocals and instruments. Not orchestral or other things that can't be done live. A lot of artists are lip syncing full performances.
More is not more. Overabundance might be killing music.
The term “killing” music doesn’t seem accurate. Possibly changing what it means to people. Possibly making it less elitist. Possibly making it harder for artists to become wealthy from it. But not killing it. The art of music is still there and always will be.
Yes. When each day produces more songs than you can hear in a lifetime than music simply ceases to be meaningful and important, it's just a background noise. Too much music is not amazing, it's the exact opposite.
I like water. But Floods...not so much. Especially when it gets mixed with sewage.
@@drscro7163 This is one reason I just went back to flac files on my phone.
Finn, you and Rick Beato should have a debate on this
That's a great idea
The gloves come off!
I support this. Literally the polar opposites
Rick is a Heavy Weigh tho
Rick beato made a vid about backtracks and was surprised it was controversial.
This isnt just a rock thing, it happens in rap as well.
No. It’s the over commercialisation of music, and turning the artform into nothing more than a vehicle for profit.
Being critical of a subgenre, subculture, ideology or set of values is necessary.
Here's the thing: hell yeah brother 👊👊👊.
Best comment of all time
Does it sounds nice to MY ears? Does it make ME feel a certain way? Do I like it? Then it is a good song to ME.
"Have no standards"
- The Punk Rock MBA
The moment I clicked on this I thought I was watching a Fantano review🤣🤣🤣
"Why is the live performance more valued than the studio performance?"
Who even needs to ask this question? Studio performances can be tinkered with, corrected, re-recorded until everything is exactly right. Live performances cannot. They're a test of musicianship, playing ability, tightness of a band.
But a live performance wouldn't even exist without the studio recording.
And the effort and work people put into the songwriting/production deserves as much credit as the craft of playing live.
@@nicoragua1816 What are you talking about? Before audio recording technology was available the only way to listen to music was to listen to live performances or play live yourself.
@@nicoragua1816 were you literally born yesterday? 😂
I guess I hold some rockism ideals. But really only with rock music particularly. I understand that hip hop and pop concerts are not going to be playing instruments on stage, so I give them a pass, though most I would not be interested in seeing. But if you’re a rock band, guitars, drums and vocals, you should not be putting out music that cannot be played on stage, if you intend to tour that is.
There’s a difference in layering guitar in studio, and playing several different riffs with guitar in studio. Layering can make a thicker sound to help make it sound full instead of flat, which just recording digital can do if you try to just record a single guitar track. But playing 8 different things on guitar when you only have 2, maybe 3 guitarist, is idiotic. If you do it on one song that you don’t intend to play live, okay. But don’t make that your norm, or your setting yourself up for failure or criticism that’s well justified.
I’m not a big country fan, but I seen Chris Stapleton live a few years back. Him on electric guitar, a bassist, and a drummer. 3 people, no backing tracks. It literally may have been the most incredible performance I’ve seen. That’s real talent, and worth paying money for, though I think it was a free concert or I won the tickets 😂
What? Most bands play live before they ever record anything. So wrong.@nicoragua1816
music is an art, not a competition, if YOUR opinion on music is that it should just be the demonstration of skill 1/you'd better stop listening to music and watch sports instead 2/don't impose your own opinion on what makes music good to others 3/ok let's compose a song that sounds like ass but is super hard to perform and see if you like it
Quite a few of your arguments are backdoors for Ai. If your a fan of things made by humans. Now, out of anytime in history is a good time to Gatekeep. Not just for rock, but all forms of art.
Well, first off, it doesn't necessarily sound "worse" live just because there's aren't six or eight guitars playing at once. That's just pure bullshit. Tons of bands in the 70s and 80s used multitracking in the studio and still made it work live. Anybody who's ever visited a guitar store knows there's tons of foot pedals that can make one guitar sound like several guitars. Hell, Les Paul could do that in the 50s.
You nailed so many points on the nose! As a former music snob, I have opened myself to the possibility of enjoying almost ANY kind of music. I still cherish my favorites, but I consume a much broader buffet of musical art. When I get sucked into a debate with a “rockist”, it is exhausting.
Why do people prefer live performances over studio recordings? Oh, I don't know, maybe because musicians actually play and perform LIVE?
But its all about the music though.
They played and performed on the album.
@@BlackJesus8463 Yeah, why would i thing something constructed in a studio is better than what is created live?
Agreed. It doesn't mean the studio bands suck, it's just that some people appreciate the art of the performance. Either extreme is toxic
@@A5M1TH Why wouldn't you?
Yea I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one somewhat. The humanity of the music is part of what makes it art. There's a good reason people don't like manufactured bands and music: because it's hollow. There's no human experience to feel, nothing to connect with.
Exactly 💯
If something has a good beat I can still enjoy it though. A lot of music I listen to in order to FORGET about people. I don't want it to connect me to them even more.
@@James-if3kc I guess there are different ways to "listen" to music. Personally, I like to stay present in my life and pay attention when I listen to something. Listening to music with zero meaning behind it.. just seems like a waste of time. It's like eating candy, feels good but ultimately doesn't do anything for you and kinda wastes your limited resources like time, money, calories, etc
Um, do you not realize the actual work that goes into creating electronic music? Those instrument sounds are from samples of real instruments recorded in a studio individually. Those artists are making art. They are creating music through inspiration just like others. They are also in some cases coming up with vocals that they might perform or have a carefully selected vocalist perform. There are some very powerful tracks out there telling incredibly dark stories to amazingly uplifting ones and the humanity in between. Don’t shit on music you haven’t bothered to learn about or try to understand.
@@Kageoni187 While I acknowledge and respect the creativity and effort that goes into creating electronic music, I think the big draw for many musicians is that the person using samples is rarely the one who played them with the actual instruments. My friend does this quite well and has a real talent for creating beats, but he hasn’t put in the time to learn how to play everything he samples. That’s okay for the casual listener or for non-musicians, but to most musicians, there’s a very real disconnect because they understand the serious amount of dedication it takes to not only learn a single instrument, but to have the skill to write an amazing song and sync up with other musicians to play it live (timing, groove, etc.). There are definitely some great electronic songs and artists out there, but to some, nothing will come close to the feeling of witnessing/hearing a group of musicians lock in with each other (mistakes and all) and delivering a great performance.
The only popular media that succeeds at becoming popular media is because there's a big budget for marketing behind whatever it is.
Absolutely LOVING this, Man. Regarding the “Live” bit too
Studio versions use bigger and more production to capture the IDEA of how the song is supposed to feel and sound to a listener. That idea usually outscales the performers to achieve the effect, and THAT is when laptops have to come in to supplement all of the context which was generated in the studio to, again, support the IDEA of how the song is supposed to be perceived. Nevermind the accountability of being able to perform the parts you commit to in the studio. The vast majority of people who succeed are usually good enough to either play it, or change it into something that’s still cool. I wouldn’t worry about the rest.
Ozzy barely writes anything and people love him. People like to pick and choose when stuff fits their argument
What do you mean, Ozzy wrote over 100 songs and is an OG in the song writing sphere whose use of homonyms is legendary, just as a single example. Plus his syllable counts? Come on.
"Generals gathered in their masses, just like witches at black masses......"
@@Charagrin Geezer Butler wrote most of Sabbath's lyrics
@@Megaalith They wrote a lot of them, sure. Ozzy IS, well was, mostly, a song writer, and has his own talent.
And all of this in service to a judgy controlling asshole thought process. Sad. Malice is a bad look I think. And I found it in these comments.
Convince me this guy isn't Republican the way he judges and wants to control others for the incredible sin of making and enjoying music he doesn't like.
No one has ever loved ozzy as an artist the same way people love Brand New or Radiohead or whatever. He’s a phenomenal entertainer, but he’s never been a world class “artist”.
Ozzy doesn’t need to. Rock is DEAD. Gone. Ozzy was the peak of it.
The live performance is important because why would you pay money to hear someone who can’t sign anymore? Like taking back Sunday.
I think you missed his point. Live performance is important in its own right as its own form of entertainment, but should not be a measure of the validity of the artistry in the music. If a band can't perform live, that's unfortunate and will probably affect their overall popularity, but it shouldn't diminish the artistic value of the music they created in the studio.
@@CollinswithanS maybe not the artistry, but the skill. If you saw a band you liked live, and they couldn’t play well together at all, the singer couldn’t sing, ect. And they are consistently like that live, wouldn’t the fact they sound much much better in studio be a testament to how good the studio’s work is? I do agree that if it sounds good in studio, it’s a good song. But their lack of ability to play live tells me the studio did most of the heavy lifting
@@CollinswithanS I guess a analogy would be someone who looks great only with a lot of makeup on verses someone who looks great with or without makeup. We’d say the person who looks great both ways is more naturally attractive
@@drummerconz682 I agree with the sentiment that I would rather a band that I like be able to perform well together live. However, I think you're conflating their skills as performers and their talents as artists. Consider John Williams, who composed many iconic soundtracks. He has a great artistic vision and an amazing ability to compose, but he probably can't play many of the individual instruments used in his compositions (I could be very wrong on his musical performance skills, but it's just an example). Basically, ability to perform well live and ability to arrange and produce a great song are two independent skills. Both are very important in their own right, but one is about skill with an instrument and showmanship, and the other is about artistic vision and creativity.
@@drummerconz682 just thought I should add: I agree that a good band should be able to perform well live. I have seen a few bands who were disappointing live and it tainted my view of their music. But I think that a good SONG doesn't necessarily have to be able to be performed live. It's a weird distinction, but hopefully it makes sense
Finn, I really felt for you when you posted your recent video about the state of your channel, and I just want to let you know that I personally *love* when you offer personal opinions and make videos that are outside the box. Cultural criticism is so much more interesting reading wikipedia articles. I love this one and totally agree with you. Awesome stuff.
Id rather they be competent enough to play there own music and not need backing tracks... Live music is about energy not perfection.
There are a lot of good points in this video but I disagree pretty heavily with the take given on the massive credit lists of some of these albums.
Part of what is so enjoyable about listening to an artist or band is feeling like you have a connection to those specific people. If a given song was written by a bunch of calculating industry veterans, then I start to wonder if the perspective and emotion I'm relating to is really genuine or if I'm just being manipulated for engagement. It's not a matter of pretentiousness, it's about feeling tricked and betrayed.
You ever play to a backing track before? To some of the points of authenticity, I don’t necessarily go to a show to hear a song I like 1:1, I’m going to see them showcase their talent with their own music
Got 7 guitars layered? Well figure out a blend of parts with two, and that’s part of what makes the live performance incredible for me. The musician point of view may be “elitist” too but it’s an aspect I disagree with in your video. It’s not to say backing tracks can’t be used, just use them tastefully. And that’s the problem right, how do you know how much or little they’re filling in with a recorded track. If I wanted to hear the song, 1:1 I’d pull it up on a streaming platform.
Loved the video!
I thought this was just going to be about gatekeeping, cool wasn't. Related, but not just gatekeeping.
Sometimes I feel like you feed into the gatekeeping of metal on your other channel. But then you have videos like this and the crab mentality on metal.
Love this. Great video.
So, I'm a 24 year active rock radio dj, and from day 1, I've been told, "Rock music is done! Better find another job, girl." It's ironic that actual radio is dying, not Rock.
Can we all at least agree that a song should not have 6 to 8 people writing just the lyrics? Like the new Post Malone/Morgan Wallen song or the Shaboozey song Tipsy? It's more like writing by committee than collaboration.
Sorry, but no, we cannot agree. You already hint at why not: you say 6 to 8 people... so where exactly is the limit? How many people are allowed to work together on lyrics? Or would it be okay if this is a band with 6 members that they all work together on the lyrics? Or is only the vocalist allowed to write lyrics? But there are many bands where other members write lyrics. So again, no. If those people come together and find something they want to write about, why not share their experiences to come to a mutual topic for the song? And I'm not talking here about some clever producers coming together to write just what "people want to hear" hoping to make more money out of it. This can be a reason, but this applies no matter if you have one or many writing the lyrics and no matter if they are members of the band or other people.
@@gordonbrinkmann While I have to concede you have a point. You touched on the real heart of the matter. Most groups are not Wu-tang with each person writing their own part in a song lyrically. So my statement is very absolutist but the sentiment doesn't change. So I'll say that in certain situations it makes sense but by and large it's rather ridiculous. And I'll point to the examples I used as evidence.
@@gavinshickle1814 I certainly understand what you mean and you can definitely find examples for your point. I was mostly reacting to saying "a song should not have", which was very generalized and I disagree on that, especially when I do not always know how or why it came to a song having many writers, I would not judge the lyrics by the sheer number of authors or say, this is not okay, that's too many people. But, as I said, I understand your point too and surely there are examples where you might call it overproduced or worse things.
That's the thing, PunkrockMBA won't admit that most pop music is shit, and he won't admit that a song shouldn't have 17 writers. He's a "rock fan" who's MO is to always promote pop, rap, and pop rap and then bash rock fans with weak straw man arguments like "Rock fans don't like pop only because it's not live", which is only part of the equation. Rock and metal fans (and fans of other forms of underground music), also don't like pop simply due to the way it sounds. It's just that simple. He completely misses the boat on this, because he doesn't want to admit that modern American pop music sounds like nails on a chalkboard.
@@gordonbrinkmann that's not the kind of writing they're referring to. Bands don't write songs like that much anymore. That's mainly... Well rock music 😂. He's talking about 6 unknown dudes writing a song that some Nashville poster boy gets to sing while 4 producers layer 6 tracks of auto tune to make him sound like an AI synth voice. Unfortunately, it takes away from the real talent of Good artists. Morgan being one of them, in my opinion. That dude has a killer voice, no reason to mess with it.
Is it considered rockism if I value a musician actualy being good at playing music? I honestly couldn't care any less if the instruments are perfectly tuned or if the lights are off. I love live music for the performance.. or else I'd stay at home and listen to music at my desk, and yes, I prefer if they're not tracking anything.. this is why I never really vibed with sampled music.. even though I can accept that some DJ's are real musicians..
Loved the video btw! keep it up!
This is great and really well presented. Thanks Finn.
On the Falling in Reverse topic: I'm in a modern metal Band myself and we play mid-sized festivals in Germany. We use click in our In-Ear Headset to play perfectly tight to samples and Ambience tracks which are controlled by two laptops.
We are doing that, not to subtract from our Show, but to add important show elements like ambience, bass drops, effects and so on. Our goal is to sound as tight and full as possible live, and i think that added Layers on the ambience, guitars, and vocals do a great job for that. Even we, as a compared to F.I.R. tiny band are somewhat dependant on our Laptops to ensure the best show with the best sound possible.
I hope that helps some guys understanding why Laptops are important nowadays..
I love this. Feels like a 2019-2020 video from this channel
Yup!!!
what's so typical for 2019-2020 videos from this channel? This video doesnt really look that different than his other latest videos imo.
More opinion-based, the bit where he does the deep voice and the goofy mouth visual effect to mock something, the hot take intro.
I totally agree and I love it too!
That was 150 years ago bro
Hard disagree Finn. Authenticity is everything, regardless of genre.
Especially with AI now, there's too much music to support people with a mountain of cowrites and label help, who wouldn't be nearly as popular if they were DIY. I want more people in music like JPEGMAFIA - writes, performs, creates the beats, mixes, masters, and creates the art. I want as little to be done outside of the person / group as possible no matter how rough. I will always listen to and support that regardless of genre. And as far as needing laptops live to play a backing track like Falling in Reverse did - no, get a touring electronics / synth guy. Correction tools like autotune are no, effects are fine. I can see having a touring DJ or laptop for electronic music, but a live drummer at least would be nice where applicable. I'm there for a unique and human performance compared with what I can hear at home.
Live shows have been gutted yet are more expensive than ever to maximize profit, and people don't care. It's really disappointing. I'm really surprised you're not getting any pushback from other commenters. I know you want to be accepting but this is way off the mark.
Exactly
NO MORE GENRES!!!!
Go watch more fantano little buddy
Way off the mark 🤓
Nicely put, and fully agree with you. Most of his arguments are just plain wrong.
Thank you, Finn. One of your best as of late. Please do a deep dive into OSEES! Love you!
I can recall a UK interview Björk gave in the 1990s, back when she was a new solo artist at the forefront of the burgeoning Electronica movement. She described Brit-Pop (which was then fashionable) as an unimaginative, desperate attempt at maintaining rock's traditional place at the top of popular music. Around the same time period, Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails stated in a MuchMusic interview that he felt the rock scene had grown stagnant and that there was much more innovation happening in hip-hop. In hindsight, Björk and Trent were both railing against the elitist attitude of many rock musicians and fans (i.e., rockism). I personally dig a lot of rock but can find no fault in what they said. They make good points, as does this video.
This was totally me like 5 years ago. Took a step back and started appreciating things for what they are.
Always gonna praise the people who work on bettering themselves and realizing that the way they currently are might not be the best person they are. Took me a long time to realize this about myself, unfortunately, but I got there and am still working.
Cheers, man!
Hard same!
"I am in a world of shit"
The backing tracks is a bs argument. Tracks for extra sauce works, but if you can’t play your music live…. You’re not a musician. You’re an engineer
Not even an engineer since someone else makes it all work on stage. More like a sock puppet.
My band never plays any of the samples we have on our record. No one ever cares. We just play.
to like what 100 people?
But they also probably wouldn’t care if you did play the samples. They are there to experience your music with you playing it for them.
Would it not be more authentic and of you to play the totality of the songs from the record, including backing tracks and samples, instead of foregoing those out of simplicity or some other reasoning?
It really do just be easier to not have them ima be real, but is it really any more honest or real? Just a thought I had reading this comment idk.
They probably care but in a way that doesn't negatively impact their enjoyment. Respecting a decision the band went with or choosing to have a good time and going with the flow isn't the same as not caring.
@@LightsOnTrees100 people more from Zero
Good video, Finn.
The only thing I really disagree with you on here is the bit about live shows. I dont have any problem with backtracks or laptops and I was completely on Ronnie's side during "laptop gate", but it is nice to know the band are capable of performing their stuff. Like when I pay to see an artist live, I'd feel cheated out of my money if they just put up a big screen with the album cover, hit play on the Spotify app, and that was the show. That would suck. Its all about finding that balance.
I also tend to think the value of the live show is only going to increase as AI gets better and better at just generating highly produced songs.
Hey Finn, great video! 40 year old rocker over here and I admit that I just to do this back in my teens. When I just had discovered rockmusic, it changed my world and I couldn’t stand other music and I wasn’t shy of pointing that out. But I learned quickly that it really was just one big fat ego-trip to make myself feel superior. Which is nonsense. While I still like all my rock records (I even play in a 70’s rockband) I celebrate the day rockism dies.
Oh, and on the live shows: Queen never played Bohemian Rhapsody fully live. They used a backing track during the opera part. So when artist these days do the same, fine.
This seems to be an incredibly small problem to complain about. The actual problem is the complete opposite. Most people in the world have never stopped to critically reflect on the media that they are offered, and couldn't express at all what they like or dislike about something. As you yourself said, there is more music being released daily than anyone could ever listen to in a lifetime. That being given, you should be extremely discerning and discriminating about what you spend your time on. Snobbery is a good thing and we need it to protect ourselves from being inundated with subpar, mediocre trash.
If my illusion of live performance is broken by some just hitting the space bar on a laptop, I WILL be pissed if the tickets were $50+. Also MGK is awful. I agree with everything else
Really interesting video!
just a few of my thoughts. For backing tracks, I feel like the distinction as to whether it seems weird/inauthentic or not is what the intended experience is. Is it a big production, with lights/pyrotechnics/dancers etc, or is it more of a performance, where an artist is performing their art. Backing tracks seem out of the ordinary if it's a local show in the back of a coffee house, where we're all screaming our hearts out, but they seem totally normal at a Slipknot/Taylor Swift/Post Malone show. But ultimately, my opinion is my opinion on midi drums as well. Anything that helps you create art is a good thing.
For people criticizing if an artist sucks live, I think it's really dumb to entirely base an artist on their live show, but I feel like it's more about whether its worth the money/time to see them live. Sometimes people can really only afford to see a show once a year, so they want to know if going to it is going to be a good experience. Personally, I think it's always 'worth it' to support things you like, so hypothetically, If I hear an artist I like isn't good live, I would find a different way to support them, like buying a CD/Shirt/Poster etc.
For critiquing production, I agree that a lot of people are just trying to find something to dislike, but sometimes it can be as simple as 'I really like this vocal line, I wish it was slightly more pronounced in the mix'.
For Producers, I agree, But there is a degree of authenticity that goes into it. If an artist is claiming to be self made or DIY, it's disingenuous to do so if they have a bunch of producers/writers backing them. There is nothing wrong with having a large team when it comes to creating art, but if you do, don't pretend that you don't.
I agree that I see a lot more people criticizing things than praising them, and I think some of that has to do with negativity selling better than positivity, Ex. any news station. But, that doesn't mean that art should be above criticism. Yeah, people are probably looking for something to complain about, but if something does genuinely suck, it's totally fair to voice that. That being said, there Is definitely a difference between people senselessly leaving mean comments on an artists page, and the plethora of allegations against Lizzo for being a bad person. If what is alleged is true, she 100% deserves all the hate she has gotten.
I think that it just get tangible in a different way with musicians actively playing their instruments on stage. That technical prowess for me is like watching an athlete performing a sport.
You can’t judge that sometimes by simply taking in the visual and audio elements.
I am there to watch the people behind the music.
PLAYING LIVE: you don't sound 'worse' if you don't have the 12 guitar tracks u did in the studio, U LEARN how to make it work with your ACTUAL HUMAN BAND MEMBERS, and that's called the 'live version'. A lot of times I've heard live versions of songs and yeah, it sounds DIFFERENT, not 'worse', sometimes BETTER! The hatred of backing tracks is MORE about people who can no longer sing and are FAKING.
"The Sex Pistols aren't authentic because Malcom McLaren." - OG Rockism
Punk rock on the whole was (and is) inauthentic, so...
Who said that, Johnny Rotten?
Constructive criticism is the fuel for evolution and change. You mentioned video games and movies which are mainly made to satisfy corporations and not the audience nowadays. Even though there are some highlights like Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, Lies of P or Stellar Blade. In my opinion it also happens in music, there are amazing artists like Kendrick Lamar, Knocked Loose or Beyonce who manage to make music that is both enjoyed by millions and pushes the boundaries of the genre but nowadays we have tons of popular artists that don't use music as a way to express themselves but rather to gain short-lived popularity and it makes me sad. Call me a snob or whatever but if we accept everything without any criticism we'll grow indifferent towards something we once cherished.
Am I the only one who cannot stand falling in reverse?
I stopped getting my music critiques from Reddit years ago. Nothing useful about that garbage can.
Your last few videos have been among my favorites. Please keep it coming.
Even in more traditional fields you'll find this kind of mentality. For example, in woodworking some people only hand tools are valid so the majority power tools or CNC are seen as cheating, which is absurd.
or "i'm going to climb this mountain without any oxygen" that's always a good one
Same as how People will bitch that editing analog photography scans isn't legit when the developing, enlarging and printing done in past decades involved editing just the same
I was worse than a rockist, I was a progressive rockist. Visiting one of the last Oceansize gigs they would ever do, standing at the front in a hall that was almost empty because so few people would visit, and being proud of it. And then all progressive rock acts quit or went on hiatus and Spotify promoted Astroworld to me. And Jake Paul pranked Post Malone and I had no idea what any of that was and suddenly I realised that 2019 top 40 music is actually really great and has at least the amount of complexity that I wanted out of progressive rock.
The reason why nobody cares about a studio "performance" is because most people, even if they never recorded a single note, are well aware of how much you can polish a turd in the studio nowadays.
You say "nowadays" as if you couldn't just record 50 takes on guitar or vocals 30 years ago until you got it perfect.
I can say this, that ever since discovering your channels and watching a bunch of your videos on here and on your second channel, it really has opened my mind to different styles of music and really helped me to, at the very least appreciate music even if I don't necessarily like it. And also helped me kill the idea of "guilty pleasures" if only because I'm able to just see that like we should like what we like and not feel ashamed about the fact that even though I like metalcore and classic metal and stuff but I think I want it that way is a fucking banger.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I do want to say that it’s also ok to appreciate when a song or album does come largely from a small group or one artist, like if we can appreciate something is great when it comes from a large team, shouldn’t we inherently recognize how huge an accomplishment it is when something just as great is made by a small team or one person.
Well said. By setting an example of supporting and celebrating each other's success instead of fostering jealousy and resentment, we can eliminate Rockism for good.
heya finn, i just wanna tell that your channel just change my mind vision for everything as "music" (also rock and every genre). and this video is the example of that what i was experienced... greetings from argentina wachooooo AGUANTE THE PUNK ROCK MBA VIEJAAAAAA
Was in a band for 8 years and agreed. Can’t push anything forward cause the fan base only wants the same thing forever.
Like I’m going to Download festival and the lineup is more less set in stone for the past 20 years!
I'll give Download Festival credit for trying some new headliners like Fall Out Boy and Bring Me The Horizon.
Rock and metal fests in general need new blood at the top of the bills. that means some other people need to step aside when their time at the top is waning, and some just aren't willing to give up their spot. Some bands get "made" and never go back down the bill, so we still have bands like Megadeth, Rob Zombie, The Offspring and Chevelle stinking up the joint at the top.
I just saw Welcome To Rockville in Daytona almost two weeks ago. Top bands? Motley Crue, Limp Bizkit, Foo Fighters and Slipknot, for the second year in a row. I'm fine with Motley Crue and Foo Fighters, because they have a stadium level draw. Slipknot and Evanescence played two years in a row (maybe they couldn't get who they really wanted?) for no apparent reason, although the current hype around Slipknot justifies it. Limp Bizkit headlined for no other reason than.... It was the 30th anniversary of the working relationship between them and promoter Danny Wimmer? Didn't even play any new stuff.
There's some bands on that bill who might have had a good argument to headline. The presence of Motley Crue literally knocked Disturbed, a bonafide headliner, down to support. Jelly Roll should have ABSOLUTELY headlined Friday over Limp Bizkit. Bands like Falling In Reverse, A Day To Remember, Bad Omens are within spitting distance of being future headliners. At least they're giving Bad Omens a shot this summer, being direct support at Inkcarceration and even headlining Upheaval Festival in Michigan around that time.
I would love the idea of being in a band but the reality would suck. Playing the same shitty cover songs night after night that I don’t even like to a bunch of drunk assholes in some shitty bar or backyard bbq? Just to make a few bucks that won’t even cover gas money? No thanks. I’ll stick to just playing in my room where I can play what I want to play and find satisfaction in that.
@@rickbelden2319 It’s worth the experience if you enjoy it mate. It’s a passion project first (and realistically only way you should be thinking of band). I still love the idea of writing something special enough that the world feels it. I’ve had some of the best moments of my life in my band. Would never say don’t do it. For me it just wasn’t to be.
@@SickIncKamikaze Sorry, but FOB and BMtH have been around for 20+ years, and have been headlining other festivals for almost as long.
There's that old joke about comedians: Everyone goes to rock shows demanding their old shit and not their new stuff, they go to comedy shows to say the opposite.
One thing I like about live shows is improvisation, I rarely listen to Grateful Dead studio recordings because I’d rather listen to the live version, but they’re a jam band, with other artists the live show is much more visual and that’s totally fine, for the bigger pop acts, pulling it off live to me means putting on a great dance even if you have to rely on the backing track
The Grateful Dead is the best band that's ever existed.
What did the Deadhead say when he ran out of pot?
This band kinda sucks!
@@oceanaxim that's one of the dumbest yuppie jokes of all time