Thanks again! I am learning more about Zwift from watching your content than I have from anyone else. You explain the intricacies of Zwift in such a concise and easy to understand way. Cheers
Timestamps: Setting the stage: 1:55 Cheating On Zwift: 7:05 How Equipment Impacts Racing: 11:57 How bad is the sandbagging? 15:59 Getting Disqualified: 17:05 Small riders and women: 20:18 Everyone racing together: 23:57 Updated Note for 2020: ZwiftPower has actually addressed some of the issues mentioned here. 1. They have a greater forgiveness for "out of category" performances. Riders are given a margin of error and upgrades are based on trend data rather than individual performances. 2. Lighter riders and women are given consideration for W/KG against raw watts - if a light rider has a high W/KG but their raw wattage is still low based on their size, they are no longer penalized. 3. Women are now given two categories. An open/co-ed category and a women's category. Generally speaking, a women's category will be one higher than the open category except in cases where a woman is approaching the upgrade category or they have higher raw wattages in which case they may be the same.
How on earth did I miss this excellent video?!? For two years... Been Hibernation for too long it seems or I'm just blind. Anyway, super video and still informatie as it was brand new.
Absolutely love your content, thanks for making these videos. I’m at the top end of Cat C, rode a short crit yesterday and came 240th/ 375. Top 125 had ftp over Cat C boundaries. 2nd place was someone who weighed less than 30kg with 5.4 w/kg....I only use results to check my fitness and training progress. I still love Zwift, just don’t take the racing too seriously.
I know this video is two years old but I must say, your explanations about Zwift and its features are just outstanding. As a new Zwift racer, you’ve given me a reality check. I enjoy racing, but I’m not going to take it too seriously.
Thanks for the video it was great info. As a 55 year old 195 lbs racer Zwift has been a mental savior to me. But I have gotten frustrated at times my ftp is 3.2 top of c class and just get hammered some races.
10:52 Best moment in the video..... Seriously though, I wholeheartedly agree with the points made, and hope that some progress can be made to improve the sport. IRL and on Zwift, I could never understand why people would shortchange themselves of the accomplishment of a legit victory by cheating. Zwift has categories of racing for all abilities, so cheating should be a non-issue, but yet we are still having to talk about it today. Good video!
I understand totally what U r saying , been ' beaten' a lot by people doing parts of zwift races at outrageous watts even in " C " grade , but I recently won my first Zwift race in C grade ( ok only 30 people turned up ) But I won because I finally have got the way to race on Zwift eg , going really hard at the beginning first km and putting on the power a few seconds before any ' difficult ' parts of the circuit (hills etc) I always have everything at the standard settings and half never changed my height from when I started 2 yrs ago although my weight had changed as I have got fitter , so there is hope 😀
Love the brutal honesty of your videos. As a relative newbie to Zwift I have noticed how many people there are whom are happy to show their age but never their height! Cheats only cheat themselves...
Really helpful video so thank you for putting it together. Lots of information that I wasn't aware of. Weirdly, one of the main attractions of Zwift for me is that, despite the valid things you mentioned, it still feels fairer than racing in the real world. Reason being that real world racing seems to be impacted so much by the bike and gear etc that it seems to be a battle of bank balances long before fitness comes into the equation. For me, apps such as Zwift help to level the playing field by removing the need to shell out thousands and thousands of pounds just to get to the start line with half a chance of beating the person next to you. At least in a running race the shoes/spikes you wear don't make a huge amount of difference, and either way aren't particularly expensive. With outdoor cycling I can't even begin to compare myself to anyone else as I know that in most cases we're using drastically different equipment (which in turn significantly impacts things like total weight etc.) and so I have no idea how we actually compare on fitness, which is surely the point of any race. Consequently I think if Zwift can get around to fixing most of the issues you mentioned then, for me at least, it would still feel much fairer than racing in the real world, something I just don't have the wallet for.
I got bumped up from D for being just over(2.68w/kg) the cat C 2.63 wattage limit for 20mins. even tho’ my HR was beyond it’s max and I was pushing past my limit. Mailed support questioning it, as no way ready, and they’ve regraded me to D - for now. Hoping for a podium soon🤞before my hard earned up ranking 😮
I see some people I ride with in the "treal world" crushing me up Alpe de Zwift and some of the other climbs. On normal club rides they can't hold my wheel and I was baffled as a new zwifter what was going on. I had the right weight 78kg and height 180cm and trainer calibrated. Then I start to see vids about virtual doping. So as a test I did the Alpe at 60kg but same height. My proper time is 45 min, with the weight change was going to cross at 38min and at less power. I think that zwiftpower should be manditory if you are racing, but that won't happen. I still like Zwift even with its faults, but the competitor in me goes mental when I see it. As you said in your video it truly is amazing how many men are 60kg and 170cm tall on hilly routes then 85 kg on flats. Like your videos and your cats stole the show a few times:)
I agree with zwift power being mandatory only I would like to see full integration. Zwift should pay to absorb that framework into the program, that way you can get your unofficial results immediately and maybe the official would populate when the last person crosses or is sent by email. I don't blame zwift per se because they probably never figured it would catch on this way. Now that they do, I hope it's in the works.
@@S9999Frank that's not what I was talking about. People I know and have ridden with and can't hold my wheel IRL crush me on zwift. Why because the cheat and lower their weight. That was my point. Yes I know Zwift is a globlal platform and yes lots of little people ride on there. My point was there has to be a better way to stop the bs with the game.
@@weasellyone2 I agree that there are cheaters, if you know them in irl all the more embarrassing for them when you drop them. Trainers can also be inaccurate, but then again, why worry, it is a training tool, not real outdoor riding.
You were telling my story when I was discovering Zwift, I was training every day and I was exactly around that 3-3.2w/kg and I get discualify. now on B is impossible to win guys that make 4.1 the full race. But I stop thinking on win and more try to as fast as I can...
I'm about 185cm tall and never have I wanted to be short...until Zwift. It is amazing when I show up to a ride and my avatar looks like a giant compared to others. I know why people make themselves shorter but it is so infuriating.
what about hose of us with hydraulic trainers where resistance actually goes up as you try to speed up ? I think those have an actual disadvantage what is your take on that ? once we calibrate it the faster I want to go teh hardest it gets , compared to a trainer that varies magnetically
I have experienced getting dropped completely in the race and still being DQ. It’s like I have to push more WPK than the other riders to keep the pace. I wonder if there is a a problem with my system? Or a glitch that makes my avatar not feel the draft. I would definitely buy a smart scale to prove my results.
What I found out just recently, is that when I train on a trainer, the trainer measures continuity not pressure. For example, the higher the cadence the more resistance it creates, and than means higher watts, so you go “faster”, but when you change it to the big ring and spin slower, it won’t matter, even if you “feel” you are smashing the pedals you won’t see higher watts, you’ll see just about the same number. So The other day I did 51 miles on the road, and I wrote down my ftp on Zwift plus, the gears selected, the watts per gear, etc… And I noticed that the big chain ring on my crankset equals the small chainring in my trainer (elite drivo) say 35-17 (sram) on Zwift equals 48-17 on the road. It was humanly impossible for me to drop the chain to the 35t ring like on Zwift and spin 200+ watts. My problem is that when I race on Zwift and I want to sprint I have to change it to my 12t on my cassette and that makes the chain go up and get stuck in the big chainring or derailleur cage. If I put it in the big chainring the trainer turns like a rock and I usually have chain problems 🤷🏻♂️ So I decided to just race without sprinting. Complicated huh
It is more effective to be at a higher cadence, you are actually able to hold the power over a longer time like that. Which is why you never see a pro riding at 50 cadence.
So many strong women riders, 4wpk and only 160 watts, that's 40kg right. I find myself doing the maths on every rider and checking their profile pic when they fly past me. Sometimes the 2 don't seem to add up. To be fair there a plenty of males that seem really light too. One under 16 claimed to be 32kg and had won nearly every race he had been in. Like 30 wins out of 31 races or something. Zwiftpower love him. Kicked my ass. But only put out 120 watts. Very discouraging. I had one week, 3 really strong rides, now I am pushed and stuck a category higher and no matter what I cannot replicate those performances so now I am off the back in every race. Anyway. I just keep training and trying. Agree with all your points except the high low cadence. Some people like myself just can't ride with high cadence.
I am a genuine 160cm 60kg male with an FTP of 3.1 watts per kilo and have won many races on Zwift on flat courses in C grade. I am riding on an accurate trainer (Tacx Neo). I do agree that both height and weight doping is rife but don't feel disadvantaged by my lower power output (due to my size) on the flats. I enjoyed the video. Thanks
I was planning on doing some races mainly for fitness and not actually training. I'll do a training race for that. But the ebikes. And virtual doping kinda sucks. I think there should be different kinds of races. Open and secure. Must be connected power meter. Trainer reality to 80% fixed. And weight and height removed. Just pure power from the legs and gradient same for everyone.
I have a theory that a large percentage of cheaters miss the participation trophies they got as kids. Finding out that you don't get them IRL, when you're a kid that had put any stake at all in them, has got to be soul-crushing.
I haven’t used Zwift for more than a year as I wanted to try the competition, but the racing was always spoiled for me because of these facts- you’d see “average” people cheerfully sailing past you sitting at 6W/kg and know that for 95% of its users that’s impossible. I did adjust my expectations and gain some enjoyment through racing myself and my times eventually. The whole e-sports thing is not for me, especially watching it. With pros now being caught cheating too it’s credibility is marginal, but more than that, if I wanted to take all the skill, flair and panache out of bike racing and make it purely about athletic output I’d be more likely to go for triathlon. That was a joke, possibly,
Your feelings are definitely common. I hate seeing riders demoralized because they don't realize they're in a losing battle. I'm glad you were able to find the fun in it again, that's really what it's about
I’m really surprised Zwift don’t do something about the disadvantage for women on the flats. It’s true that I am battling so hard just to hang on to the back that I either have to do short races, uphill or womens only, they are fewer than you’d think. Surely women are a big enough cohort for Zwift to help out on that?
I am 100% with you. I’m little, with high strength to weight ratio - in general but seems esp on the bike. The disadvantage is a bummer - I feel like it wrecks half of what zwift has to offer me.
So this explains it, I've put in 110% on my last race and come in second last, so basically, there is no point in racing on zwift , knowing this and all the different ways people cheat, considering I hold a good % of KOM's on strava in my local area I thought I could have finished in the top 10 at least, So just stick to training plans and compete against your previous self and only race in the real world where its harder to cheat.
ya i agree ... i was able to pull off a 7th place on zpower for the alpe race today Cat C ...I averaged 3.1w/kg ... 1st place 3.6w/k 2nd 3.5 3.4 3.3 3.3 6th place 3.2 average ! ... shouldnt those other people have moved up to B class even if they are at the bottom of B class?
I don't understand how lowering your PSI can give you more watts on a wheel on trainer. I feel like I'm constantly trying to calibrate my wheel on saris trainer, but can't get it right.
On a smooth surface like the drum on a wheel-on trainer, higher tire pressure will elicit a lower rolling resistance and lower pressure a higher rolling resistance (Assuming the drum is tightened onto the tire with the same force). At a higher tire pressure, it will require less force to produce a given wheel speed. Therefore, lowering tire pressure could shift the power curve of the trainer up and raising tire pressure could shift it down. So, if you calibrate your trainer at a higher pressure, then release pressure from the valve, your lower tire pressure the same amount of force output from your pedals will elicit a higher reading from the trainer. Calibrations on a wheel on trainer should be done every single ride on a wheel-on trainer due to the constant need for adjustment and variation in tire pressure. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say you can't get it "right" if you have a true source of power like a power meter on your bike and the values don't match, that's pretty common and you should just use your power meter as your primary sensor. Wheel-on trainers are notoriously inaccurate because the power is more computational than a true measurement of power via strain gauges. If you keep your tires at a consistent pressure and calibrate every ride, you should have usable numbers for yourself that are relatively stable, but the raw power values are likely incorrect.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! I still am not sure I understand. I would think less rolling resistance would make it easier to pedal on your trainer thus giving you a higher watt output. Ultimately I want to get a cassette trainer. I calibrate almost every time I ride and some days I think it's better then others. Probably just my strength and stamina fluctuating more then the trainer haha. Also unfortunately don't have a power meter on the bike right now but that is next as well. Want to get accurate power readings more then anything!
@@willjones9583 you're right that higher rolling resistance the more power *you* need to put out to overcome it, but that's not how the power is measured on a wheel-on trainer. It's trying to calculate the power by measuring at the resistance unit. While the tire is at a higher pressure the contact patch is smaller and the resistance between the drum and tire is lower - your spin down or calibration is looking to adjust for that. When you lower the tire pressure, you're increasing the contact patch and resistance at the drum for the same power. The resistance unit is reading that increased rolling resistance as power so you're getting free power transmission to Zwift. Obviously there's a limit to how much peanut butter someone wants to ride through to cheat on Zwift, but calibrating at 110 and riding at 80 can give someone a good amount of free watts. A direct drive trainer really is a great training experience when you can upgrade. Not only for accuracy, but it feels much more natural with a big flywheel. It's a worthwhile investment when you can squeeze it into the budget 🙂
Instead of staggering starts why doesn't Zwift itself just show you (and calculate from) just the participants in your categorie. Software should have no problem running 4 races at the same time without interference.
Honestly don’t get why people would bother to cheat at this. I’m looking to try zwift as never rode but want to start. Such a shame people would stoop so low to win :(
My thought is there should be a race series where every rider is the same height and weight. I mean, it just a game. Its supposed to be fun. Not sure why the moral outrage that big heavy people somehow *deserve* to be disadvantaged in a computer game. There should just be space for different people to compete in the way that makes the most of the talent they have. If Zwift catered for it, it wouldnt be cheating, it would just be a different type of race.
No one said heavier people "deserve" to be disadvantaged, that's just how physics works. You weigh more, you're slower on climbs at the same power, that simple. You also have an advantage on flats, larger athlete usually means more watts and more speed. Everyone at the same weight is absurd. That FORCES a disadvantage to smaller riders so heavier riders can feel better about it. A 120 lb person will never put out the same wattage as a 200 lb person and will always lose. Your different kind of race favors only larger riders on almost every course. The only course that provides lighter riders with a constant advantage is a mountain course... Take a look at real racing, that's how it works. The "moral outrage" if you insist in calling it that is in cheating. Don't be a scumbag and cheat, full stop. If you think weight is a limiter, drop a couple pounds rather than thinking a game owes you something.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic its s game, your video is a whine about how you "deserve"all your genetic advantages replicated in real physics in a computer game. Btw, i do race at my actual weight and height. Why cant a computer game be a place where "non athletes" can be competitive?
@@sailinggreenpearl2571 who's whining? Zwift is built on a physics model that is meant to mimic the real world as best as it can. My video isn't a "whine" it's pointing out how it is manipulated by cheaters and incomplete controls. "Waaaah make everyone the same weight" isn't an argument.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic i have changed my mind, zwift should reflect real world riding absolutely, we should have the same 10 people turn out on club days on 10 grand bikes, while everyone that is into cycling stays away in droves. Drops points should go, people should have to get sponsors and pay real money to buy new gear and kit. Power ups, gone in a second, what we want the same two sprinters to win every race just like in real life too. Hey, lets add puntures too. Thats a great part of cycling we miss. Thankfully Zwift has been programmed for everyday riders not elitist "athletes". :-) love your channel btw.
@@sailinggreenpearl2571 if you want to die on this hill leaving commentary dripping with sarcasm, so be it. The bottom line is that the core premise of Zwift is to simulate real world PHYSICS (your diatribe notwithstanding) because of category ineffectiveness and the fact that people simply can't follow the rules, people will struggle to win races. Some of those people will never win anyway. Zwift isn't here to give participation awards for every single race, no one is entitled to a win, real world or virtual. Train, do the work, and give it everything you can on the day to be YOUR best, the whole point of the video. You want to be salty about it and straw man my position, tell me I am whining and so forth, that's a reflection on YOU not me. I'm done here, enjoy your day.
Whilst cheating is a part of life in all racing it’s only a small proportion of people who do. Of more relevance to this video is your comment that YOU just don’t care how well you do in Zwift races and I can assure you that with this attitude YOU will never win a race anywhere. I’ve just returned to riding after 12yrs off the bike and now mid 50s. I’ve done 5 Zwift races in C over the last three weeks and got - 12th, 53 (WTRL C3), 5th, 3rd and last night 1st. But I guess you will say the fact that I spent 14yrs racing Cat 1 IRL as an unfair advantage…
Wow... the arrogance of this comment is beyond words. My "attitude" means I will never win a race? The fact that I don't focus my competitive efforts on a recreational gamified platforms means I am incapable of riding stong huh? Oh honey.... you sound pathetic. I've won plenty of races and my ego isn't bruised by someone who got first place once in a cat C race...LOL! Does it hurt that a 52 kg female rides a higher category than someone who "raced cat 1 for 14 years?" How disingenous and petty can you get. I wouldn't call your pathetic results gleaned by an unfair disadvantage... I'm sure your 2 W/kg FTP was perfectly appropriate for the race. 🤣 Enjoy your day
New to zwift and your channel. Its the whole point to by fit lol. There just cheating themselves Ran my second race..said I ran 4W.. I'm way off from an A or B rider.. put i wanted to push
Hey I’ve overjoyed to have broke this myth. Got a win on race 9 of the Glasgow Crit having followed your general content plus others such as @ryancondon & @zwiftyzwifter
Of course it could. You have to pace and have no resistance. People on dumb trainers have to deal with a different level of focus to ensure the right power output. I've found many racers using something around 25% just enough to get some feedback and resistance, still hammer on the downhills and not have to run low cadence on the inclines.
I have won some A races and "won" some TdZ type events, but not the primo timeslot ones. Usually PST stuff that gets a smattering of Americans, Asians, Oceanic riders. Zwift races are more motivating for me than ERG-mode workouts...I wish they weren't.
You seem to misunderstand trainer difficulty quite badly. You started off allright with the advantages of low difficulty level on for instances alpe giving an advantage through higher cadence. However, if you try racing with too low difficulty setting, you will find on other courses that on small punchy climbs you risk getting dropped by the pack, as they will increase their power a lot on the shorter climbs if they have higher difficulty setting. Setting at 30% is recommended on most courses, and gives you a lot less need for shifting gears than outside, but still some extra resistance on the uphills. Lets face it, riding inside will never be like riding outside, no need to introduce the rain or cold, or the 40rpm climb. Also, zwiftpower is used by most people who race a lot, as it manages your abcd ranking and removes the obvious cheats or people racing in the wrong category. Another reason why most people will never win a race, is the number of people in it, remember even pro racers often have seasons with no wins, if there are 300 people in a zwift race the odds are not that good. Just race for the added excitement, the fun of drafting others, or trying to break away from them, or working together in small groups, all these things one could not do on a "dead" trainer 🙂
I don't misunderstand trainer difficulty at all. I have several videos on the matter. You don't "risk being dropped by the pack" at a low trainer difficulty unless you are in an extreme gearing and TD combination, e.g., small chain ring, high on the cassette and sub 25%. I suggest not making accusations about people's level of knowledge when you have not done the requisite research.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic No, you dont risk getting dropped, you get dropped period. I tried it due to a malfunction on my trainer giving me zero difficulty on crit city. That means I had to increase my cadence a lot on every small incline, and yes got dropped. Have you actually tried racing such races with 0 difficulty ? Up the alpe is a different matter, as you do not need to be in the draft, and steady high cadence will be easier.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic for your information we were riding in C-kategory, gearing was 50x16, everybody on higher difficulty just keep the cadence, and their power flies from 230 up to 400 in an instant, if you do not react they are all gone in 4-5 seconds. Pretty sure you dont race much from your "theories" and research as presented.
@@S9999Frank for your information, the 50% limit was instantiated in late 2021. I've been on the platform for SEVEN years, been a beta tester and have had personal conversations with the developers. Your incompetence in racing is not my problem. If you got dropped, its not a trainer difficulty problem, its a you problem. Enjoy your day.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic haha, you are so charming. Just confirming the fact that you are not actually racing with your useless comment. Try again, what do you think happens when resistance increases due to an uphill and most riders are between 30 and 50% on the trainer setting, while you are on 0 ? They will try to keep their cadence up, while you will notice it and have to react by either increasing cadence by a pretty large percent, or switch to heavioer gears. That is called being at a disadvantage, but since you are obviously not doing these kind of races, how would you know ? Bet you are good at the theory. Good for you.
You made some mistakes in your analysis. ZwiftPower doesn't disqualify a C rider, for example, for 3.2 w/kg in a single race. They allow you to go to 3.4 - to encourage exceeding your category. You would have to average 3.2 w/kg for 3 races, and in that case you would be upgraded to B cat. Secondly, people can win races, and I've won many. But, if you enjoy winning races, you have to look for the race that fits. Even a race with smaller attendance can help, like a late night race with 10 riders. Personally, I don't cheat. Because I'm heavy in real life, I put down my real weight, and that puts me in C cat - is being honest sandbagging? Lol, I think being honest has to be allowed. so, even though I have good power, I can go to C cat, which I love being in C cat. As long as you are right on the edge of nearly upgrading, you can work with that to win races - and you mentioned one of the ways you do that. You join a mixed category race, move swiftly into a group of A riders and hold their wheel. Those A cats don't have better power than me, they are just really thin, and on a flat race, it doesn't help them as much. As a C cat, I don't need to hold their wheel the whole race either, even 50% will rocket me ahead enough of other C riders, that I can solo to the finish, if I do get dropped. Eh, doesn't always work, but its worked often enough. Another thing is, many C riders aren't good at hills. at my weight, I wouldn't be good at a real hill either, but if you take a little 1m hill like the one on Innsbruckring - sprint up that hill, that's worked for me to beat other C riders ....So I find success at Innsbruckring, and 1 hour flat races, and flat time trials. I will not ever win at Downtown Dolphin, although I race there too because it bumps my punch ranking, but I cannot win...that type of race always comes down to the sprint finish, and so its a race for sprinters. I do appreciate when they don't mix categories, but I do even better at those races - not sure why, but I think it comes down to the fact that I'm not a sprinter. So I've just gotten used to looking for races that turn into an hour long drag. If you look at the math, say you can hold 280watts for an hour. And you hold that steady, 1st 20m is 280 watts, 2nd 20m 280watts, 3rd 20m 280watts. Well in that case your real ftp, by definition is 280watts. But. Zwiftpower, could calculate it as an estimate based on 95% of 20m, so in this example. or 266watts. It's a real advantage for categorization purposes if you can really put out your ftp for an actual hour. This is why I occasionally win even a hill race. That comes when the field of competition isn't particularly strong, and it's a race that ends with a 1hour trek up alp de Zwift. I can technically put out more power without violating zp w/kg. I didn't make the rules.... anyway - that's some race thoughts. I think if people took the angle that you can win races, you'd be surprised at the many ways to win races. They aren't really all won by cheaters - I'd say if you get used to looking at zp results, they are mostly won by honest people.
I did not make errors. Take a look at the date on the video. Things have changed on ZP since publishing. As for the rest of your analysis, I have a whole catalog of videos that touch on power execution. Enjoy your day.
YOU can win races because you're heavy and have power but a middle weight can't. A small rider can win races because they fall below the FTP limit for the next cat up. Their W/Kg can be higher before they hit the limit. If a heavy rider and a middleweight, say 70Kg, rider both climb at 3.1W/Kg limit they're both climbing at the same speed. The middleweight won't win on the climb and will be left for dust on the descents and flats because their power is so much lower. There are no top 10 Cat C 70Kg-75kg riders for that reason and only a single 1 in the top 40. Be light or be heavy but don't be in the middle because you will NEVER win. :D
So when I join a zwift race, I can expect a lot of the leaders to be doping?
I had no idea zwift was so realistic!
Thanks again! I am learning more about Zwift from watching your content than I have from anyone else. You explain the intricacies of Zwift in such a concise and easy to understand way. Cheers
Timestamps:
Setting the stage: 1:55
Cheating On Zwift: 7:05
How Equipment Impacts Racing: 11:57
How bad is the sandbagging? 15:59
Getting Disqualified: 17:05
Small riders and women: 20:18
Everyone racing together: 23:57
Updated Note for 2020: ZwiftPower has actually addressed some of the issues mentioned here. 1. They have a greater forgiveness for "out of category" performances. Riders are given a margin of error and upgrades are based on trend data rather than individual performances. 2. Lighter riders and women are given consideration for W/KG against raw watts - if a light rider has a high W/KG but their raw wattage is still low based on their size, they are no longer penalized. 3. Women are now given two categories. An open/co-ed category and a women's category. Generally speaking, a women's category will be one higher than the open category except in cases where a woman is approaching the upgrade category or they have higher raw wattages in which case they may be the same.
How on earth did I miss this excellent video?!? For two years... Been Hibernation for too long it seems or I'm just blind. Anyway, super video and still informatie as it was brand new.
Absolutely love your content, thanks for making these videos. I’m at the top end of Cat C, rode a short crit yesterday and came 240th/ 375. Top 125 had ftp over Cat C boundaries. 2nd place was someone who weighed less than 30kg with 5.4 w/kg....I only use results to check my fitness and training progress. I still love Zwift, just don’t take the racing too seriously.
I know this video is two years old but I must say, your explanations about Zwift and its features are just outstanding. As a new Zwift racer, you’ve given me a reality check. I enjoy racing, but I’m not going to take it too seriously.
Thanks for the video it was great info. As a 55 year old 195 lbs racer Zwift has been a mental savior to me. But I have gotten frustrated at times my ftp is 3.2 top of c class and just get hammered some races.
10:52 Best moment in the video..... Seriously though, I wholeheartedly agree with the points made, and hope that some progress can be made to improve the sport. IRL and on Zwift, I could never understand why people would shortchange themselves of the accomplishment of a legit victory by cheating. Zwift has categories of racing for all abilities, so cheating should be a non-issue, but yet we are still having to talk about it today. Good video!
Covid plus Zwift meant I lost 20 Kg in 4 months. I have only raced once, but it was interesting. I am still riding as hard as I can.
I understand totally what U r saying , been ' beaten' a lot by people doing parts of zwift races at outrageous watts even in " C " grade , but I recently won my first Zwift race in C grade ( ok only 30 people turned up )
But I won because I finally have got the way to race on Zwift
eg , going really hard at the beginning first km and putting on the power a few seconds before any ' difficult ' parts of the circuit (hills etc) I always have everything at the standard settings and half never changed my height from when I started 2 yrs ago although my weight had changed as I have got fitter , so there is hope 😀
Love the brutal honesty of your videos. As a relative newbie to Zwift I have noticed how many people there are whom are happy to show their age but never their height! Cheats only cheat themselves...
"Its like playing poker against a five year old"
Cat D: 🤨😐😔😢
😂brilliant content 👌
Totally with you,it turns what is a mind numbing experience into something bearable. Not to be taken too seriously.
Really helpful video so thank you for putting it together. Lots of information that I wasn't aware of. Weirdly, one of the main attractions of Zwift for me is that, despite the valid things you mentioned, it still feels fairer than racing in the real world. Reason being that real world racing seems to be impacted so much by the bike and gear etc that it seems to be a battle of bank balances long before fitness comes into the equation. For me, apps such as Zwift help to level the playing field by removing the need to shell out thousands and thousands of pounds just to get to the start line with half a chance of beating the person next to you. At least in a running race the shoes/spikes you wear don't make a huge amount of difference, and either way aren't particularly expensive. With outdoor cycling I can't even begin to compare myself to anyone else as I know that in most cases we're using drastically different equipment (which in turn significantly impacts things like total weight etc.) and so I have no idea how we actually compare on fitness, which is surely the point of any race.
Consequently I think if Zwift can get around to fixing most of the issues you mentioned then, for me at least, it would still feel much fairer than racing in the real world, something I just don't have the wallet for.
I got bumped up from D for being just over(2.68w/kg) the cat C 2.63 wattage limit for 20mins. even tho’ my HR was beyond it’s max and I was pushing past my limit.
Mailed support questioning it, as no way ready, and they’ve regraded me to D - for now.
Hoping for a podium soon🤞before my hard earned up ranking 😮
Great research, knowledge, and revelation. You’re a person to listen too. Thankyou.
I see some people I ride with in the "treal world" crushing me up Alpe de Zwift and some of the other climbs. On normal club rides they can't hold my wheel and I was baffled as a new zwifter what was going on. I had the right weight 78kg and height 180cm and trainer calibrated. Then I start to see vids about virtual doping. So as a test I did the Alpe at 60kg but same height. My proper time is 45 min, with the weight change was going to cross at 38min and at less power. I think that zwiftpower should be manditory if you are racing, but that won't happen. I still like Zwift even with its faults, but the competitor in me goes mental when I see it. As you said in your video it truly is amazing how many men are 60kg and 170cm tall on hilly routes then 85 kg on flats. Like your videos and your cats stole the show a few times:)
I agree with zwift power being mandatory only I would like to see full integration. Zwift should pay to absorb that framework into the program, that way you can get your unofficial results immediately and maybe the official would populate when the last person crosses or is sent by email. I don't blame zwift per se because they probably never figured it would catch on this way. Now that they do, I hope it's in the works.
Zwift is a worldwide app, so not really that big surprise that the 60 kilo cyclists will appear om the climbs like alpe du zwift.
@@S9999Frank that's not what I was talking about. People I know and have ridden with and can't hold my wheel IRL crush me on zwift. Why because the cheat and lower their weight. That was my point. Yes I know Zwift is a globlal platform and yes lots of little people ride on there. My point was there has to be a better way to stop the bs with the game.
@@weasellyone2 I agree that there are cheaters, if you know them in irl all the more embarrassing for them when you drop them. Trainers can also be inaccurate, but then again, why worry, it is a training tool, not real outdoor riding.
You were telling my story when I was discovering Zwift, I was training every day and I was exactly around that 3-3.2w/kg and I get discualify. now on B is impossible to win guys that make 4.1 the full race. But I stop thinking on win and more try to as fast as I can...
I'm about 185cm tall and never have I wanted to be short...until Zwift. It is amazing when I show up to a ride and my avatar looks like a giant compared to others. I know why people make themselves shorter but it is so infuriating.
Liked as soon as I saw the into 🤣
what about hose of us with hydraulic trainers where resistance actually goes up as you try to speed up ? I think those have an actual disadvantage what is your take on that ? once we calibrate it the faster I want to go teh hardest it gets , compared to a trainer that varies magnetically
I have experienced getting dropped completely in the race and still being DQ. It’s like I have to push more WPK than the other riders to keep the pace. I wonder if there is a a problem with my system? Or a glitch that makes my avatar not feel the draft. I would definitely buy a smart scale to prove my results.
1 year later and in my experience a lot more racers are on Zwift Power, certainly in category A, 90+%.
What I found out just recently, is that when I train on a trainer, the trainer measures continuity not pressure. For example, the higher the cadence the more resistance it creates, and than means higher watts, so you go “faster”, but when you change it to the big ring and spin slower, it won’t matter, even if you “feel” you are smashing the pedals you won’t see higher watts, you’ll see just about the same number.
So The other day I did 51 miles on the road, and I wrote down my ftp on Zwift plus, the gears selected, the watts per gear, etc…
And I noticed that the big chain ring on my crankset equals the small chainring in my trainer (elite drivo) say 35-17 (sram) on Zwift equals 48-17 on the road. It was humanly impossible for me to drop the chain to the 35t ring like on Zwift and spin 200+ watts.
My problem is that when I race on Zwift and I want to sprint I have to change it to my 12t on my cassette and that makes the chain go up and get stuck in the big chainring or derailleur cage. If I put it in the big chainring the trainer turns like a rock and I usually have chain problems 🤷🏻♂️ So I decided to just race without sprinting. Complicated huh
It is more effective to be at a higher cadence, you are actually able to hold the power over a longer time like that. Which is why you never see a pro riding at 50 cadence.
So many strong women riders, 4wpk and only 160 watts, that's 40kg right. I find myself doing the maths on every rider and checking their profile pic when they fly past me. Sometimes the 2 don't seem to add up. To be fair there a plenty of males that seem really light too. One under 16 claimed to be 32kg and had won nearly every race he had been in. Like 30 wins out of 31 races or something. Zwiftpower love him. Kicked my ass. But only put out 120 watts. Very discouraging. I had one week, 3 really strong rides, now I am pushed and stuck a category higher and no matter what I cannot replicate those performances so now I am off the back in every race.
Anyway. I just keep training and trying. Agree with all your points except the high low cadence. Some people like myself just can't ride with high cadence.
You must have miscalculated something because the Minimum weight limit is 45kg
@@angusstoneham if you have a kids account you can go below 45 kg I think
Very interesting thanks,loved the cat.
Just found your channel, great content! Thankyou!
Very informative. Gracias.
I am a genuine 160cm 60kg male with an FTP of 3.1 watts per kilo and have won many races on Zwift on flat courses in C grade. I am riding on an accurate trainer (Tacx Neo). I do agree that both height and weight doping is rife but don't feel disadvantaged by my lower power output (due to my size) on the flats. I enjoyed the video. Thanks
I was planning on doing some races mainly for fitness and not actually training. I'll do a training race for that.
But the ebikes. And virtual doping kinda sucks. I think there should be different kinds of races. Open and secure. Must be connected power meter. Trainer reality to 80% fixed. And weight and height removed. Just pure power from the legs and gradient same for everyone.
I have a theory that a large percentage of cheaters miss the participation trophies they got as kids. Finding out that you don't get them IRL, when you're a kid that had put any stake at all in them, has got to be soul-crushing.
How do you look at age when looking at racing?
I haven’t used Zwift for more than a year as I wanted to try the competition, but the racing was always spoiled for me because of these facts- you’d see “average” people cheerfully sailing past you sitting at 6W/kg and know that for 95% of its users that’s impossible. I did adjust my expectations and gain some enjoyment through racing myself and my times eventually.
The whole e-sports thing is not for me, especially watching it. With pros now being caught cheating too it’s credibility is marginal, but more than that, if I wanted to take all the skill, flair and panache out of bike racing and make it purely about athletic output I’d be more likely to go for triathlon. That was a joke, possibly,
Your feelings are definitely common. I hate seeing riders demoralized because they don't realize they're in a losing battle. I'm glad you were able to find the fun in it again, that's really what it's about
I’m really surprised Zwift don’t do something about the disadvantage for women on the flats. It’s true that I am battling so hard just to hang on to the back that I either have to do short races, uphill or womens only, they are fewer than you’d think. Surely women are a big enough cohort for Zwift to help out on that?
I am 100% with you. I’m little, with high strength to weight ratio - in general but seems esp on the bike. The disadvantage is a bummer - I feel like it wrecks half of what zwift has to offer me.
So this explains it, I've put in 110% on my last race and come in second last, so basically, there is no point in racing on zwift , knowing this and all the different ways people cheat, considering I hold a good % of KOM's on strava in my local area I thought I could have finished in the top 10 at least, So just stick to training plans and compete against your previous self and only race in the real world where its harder to cheat.
Never Never Ever?!? Ö
Thank you for this E.I.P.!
I'm hoping to change the title of this some day to say "ignore this zwift fixed it" lol
ya i agree ... i was able to pull off a 7th place on zpower for the alpe race today Cat C ...I averaged 3.1w/kg ... 1st place 3.6w/k 2nd 3.5 3.4 3.3 3.3 6th place 3.2 average ! ... shouldnt those other people have moved up to B class even if they are at the bottom of B class?
just clicked on all the people who were ahead of me .. each person there profile states they should be a A or B cat racer :(
I don't understand how lowering your PSI can give you more watts on a wheel on trainer. I feel like I'm constantly trying to calibrate my wheel on saris trainer, but can't get it right.
On a smooth surface like the drum on a wheel-on trainer, higher tire pressure will elicit a lower rolling resistance and lower pressure a higher rolling resistance (Assuming the drum is tightened onto the tire with the same force). At a higher tire pressure, it will require less force to produce a given wheel speed. Therefore, lowering tire pressure could shift the power curve of the trainer up and raising tire pressure could shift it down. So, if you calibrate your trainer at a higher pressure, then release pressure from the valve, your lower tire pressure the same amount of force output from your pedals will elicit a higher reading from the trainer. Calibrations on a wheel on trainer should be done every single ride on a wheel-on trainer due to the constant need for adjustment and variation in tire pressure. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say you can't get it "right" if you have a true source of power like a power meter on your bike and the values don't match, that's pretty common and you should just use your power meter as your primary sensor. Wheel-on trainers are notoriously inaccurate because the power is more computational than a true measurement of power via strain gauges. If you keep your tires at a consistent pressure and calibrate every ride, you should have usable numbers for yourself that are relatively stable, but the raw power values are likely incorrect.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! I still am not sure I understand. I would think less rolling resistance would make it easier to pedal on your trainer thus giving you a higher watt output. Ultimately I want to get a cassette trainer. I calibrate almost every time I ride and some days I think it's better then others. Probably just my strength and stamina fluctuating more then the trainer haha. Also unfortunately don't have a power meter on the bike right now but that is next as well. Want to get accurate power readings more then anything!
@@willjones9583 you're right that higher rolling resistance the more power *you* need to put out to overcome it, but that's not how the power is measured on a wheel-on trainer. It's trying to calculate the power by measuring at the resistance unit. While the tire is at a higher pressure the contact patch is smaller and the resistance between the drum and tire is lower - your spin down or calibration is looking to adjust for that. When you lower the tire pressure, you're increasing the contact patch and resistance at the drum for the same power. The resistance unit is reading that increased rolling resistance as power so you're getting free power transmission to Zwift. Obviously there's a limit to how much peanut butter someone wants to ride through to cheat on Zwift, but calibrating at 110 and riding at 80 can give someone a good amount of free watts.
A direct drive trainer really is a great training experience when you can upgrade. Not only for accuracy, but it feels much more natural with a big flywheel. It's a worthwhile investment when you can squeeze it into the budget 🙂
cat looks like he has some input lol
That’s the point of cats! They’re sent to test us, nothing more.
Haha :)). Been last in D but to much power, so, forced to move up to C also last, also to much power forced to B..also last. Im still addicted!!
Your video(s) are great and so are your beautiful cat.
You're an excellent presenter. You should be on tv.
Nobody watches TV anymore 😂
Instead of staggering starts why doesn't Zwift itself just show you (and calculate from) just the participants in your categorie. Software should have no problem running 4 races at the same time without interference.
Honestly don’t get why people would bother to cheat at this. I’m looking to try zwift as never rode but want to start. Such a shame people would stoop so low to win :(
I’ve won several B races. It’s difficult but not impossible.
Same here. You just got to sprint like a mofo to win.
BTW brown Tabby cats are my favorite.
My thought is there should be a race series where every rider is the same height and weight. I mean, it just a game. Its supposed to be fun. Not sure why the moral outrage that big heavy people somehow *deserve* to be disadvantaged in a computer game. There should just be space for different people to compete in the way that makes the most of the talent they have. If Zwift catered for it, it wouldnt be cheating, it would just be a different type of race.
No one said heavier people "deserve" to be disadvantaged, that's just how physics works. You weigh more, you're slower on climbs at the same power, that simple. You also have an advantage on flats, larger athlete usually means more watts and more speed. Everyone at the same weight is absurd. That FORCES a disadvantage to smaller riders so heavier riders can feel better about it. A 120 lb person will never put out the same wattage as a 200 lb person and will always lose. Your different kind of race favors only larger riders on almost every course. The only course that provides lighter riders with a constant advantage is a mountain course... Take a look at real racing, that's how it works. The "moral outrage" if you insist in calling it that is in cheating. Don't be a scumbag and cheat, full stop. If you think weight is a limiter, drop a couple pounds rather than thinking a game owes you something.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic its s game, your video is a whine about how you "deserve"all your genetic advantages replicated in real physics in a computer game. Btw, i do race at my actual weight and height. Why cant a computer game be a place where "non athletes" can be competitive?
@@sailinggreenpearl2571 who's whining? Zwift is built on a physics model that is meant to mimic the real world as best as it can. My video isn't a "whine" it's pointing out how it is manipulated by cheaters and incomplete controls. "Waaaah make everyone the same weight" isn't an argument.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic i have changed my mind, zwift should reflect real world riding absolutely, we should have the same 10 people turn out on club days on 10 grand bikes, while everyone that is into cycling stays away in droves. Drops points should go, people should have to get sponsors and pay real money to buy new gear and kit. Power ups, gone in a second, what we want the same two sprinters to win every race just like in real life too. Hey, lets add puntures too. Thats a great part of cycling we miss. Thankfully Zwift has been programmed for everyday riders not elitist "athletes". :-) love your channel btw.
@@sailinggreenpearl2571 if you want to die on this hill leaving commentary dripping with sarcasm, so be it. The bottom line is that the core premise of Zwift is to simulate real world PHYSICS (your diatribe notwithstanding) because of category ineffectiveness and the fact that people simply can't follow the rules, people will struggle to win races. Some of those people will never win anyway. Zwift isn't here to give participation awards for every single race, no one is entitled to a win, real world or virtual. Train, do the work, and give it everything you can on the day to be YOUR best, the whole point of the video. You want to be salty about it and straw man my position, tell me I am whining and so forth, that's a reflection on YOU not me. I'm done here, enjoy your day.
Whilst cheating is a part of life in all racing it’s only a small proportion of people who do. Of more relevance to this video is your comment that YOU just don’t care how well you do in Zwift races and I can assure you that with this attitude YOU will never win a race anywhere. I’ve just returned to riding after 12yrs off the bike and now mid 50s. I’ve done 5 Zwift races in C over the last three weeks and got - 12th, 53 (WTRL C3), 5th, 3rd and last night 1st. But I guess you will say the fact that I spent 14yrs racing Cat 1 IRL as an unfair advantage…
Wow... the arrogance of this comment is beyond words. My "attitude" means I will never win a race? The fact that I don't focus my competitive efforts on a recreational gamified platforms means I am incapable of riding stong huh? Oh honey.... you sound pathetic. I've won plenty of races and my ego isn't bruised by someone who got first place once in a cat C race...LOL! Does it hurt that a 52 kg female rides a higher category than someone who "raced cat 1 for 14 years?" How disingenous and petty can you get. I wouldn't call your pathetic results gleaned by an unfair disadvantage... I'm sure your 2 W/kg FTP was perfectly appropriate for the race. 🤣 Enjoy your day
New to zwift and your channel. Its the whole point to by fit lol. There just cheating themselves
Ran my second race..said I ran 4W.. I'm way off from an A or B rider.. put i wanted to push
Me starting out at a svelte 6'3" 220lb 😎
Edit: 217 today oo yea
Hey I’ve overjoyed to have broke this myth. Got a win on race 9 of the Glasgow Crit having followed your general content plus others such as @ryancondon & @zwiftyzwifter
Do a few races at TD 0 and you'll see it has HUGE disadvantages too!!!
Of course it could. You have to pace and have no resistance. People on dumb trainers have to deal with a different level of focus to ensure the right power output. I've found many racers using something around 25% just enough to get some feedback and resistance, still hammer on the downhills and not have to run low cadence on the inclines.
I have won some A races and "won" some TdZ type events, but not the primo timeslot ones. Usually PST stuff that gets a smattering of Americans, Asians, Oceanic riders. Zwift races are more motivating for me than ERG-mode workouts...I wish they weren't.
Self selection needs to go. You don't see pro Conti riders at Ur local cat 4 club race for a reason.
But I am 5'8 150 lbs!!!! lol Only in fantasy land is being a small man used as a cheat, well, besides airplane seats.
🤣 so true!
Me : 5’7 at 140lbs..yes free speed 😂
Also me: ah crap flat races suck
🤣
It is about time smart trainers came fitted with bluetooth scales :-)
Mortalkombat 😂
Surely most now know zwift racing a total crock
You'd be surprised at the shock and outrage. But people learn quick...
You seem to misunderstand trainer difficulty quite badly. You started off allright with the advantages of low difficulty level on for instances alpe giving an advantage through higher cadence. However, if you try racing with too low difficulty setting, you will find on other courses that on small punchy climbs you risk getting dropped by the pack, as they will increase their power a lot on the shorter climbs if they have higher difficulty setting. Setting at 30% is recommended on most courses, and gives you a lot less need for shifting gears than outside, but still some extra resistance on the uphills. Lets face it, riding inside will never be like riding outside, no need to introduce the rain or cold, or the 40rpm climb.
Also, zwiftpower is used by most people who race a lot, as it manages your abcd ranking and removes the obvious cheats or people racing in the wrong category.
Another reason why most people will never win a race, is the number of people in it, remember even pro racers often have seasons with no wins, if there are 300 people in a zwift race the odds are not that good. Just race for the added excitement, the fun of drafting others, or trying to break away from them, or working together in small groups, all these things one could not do on a "dead" trainer 🙂
I don't misunderstand trainer difficulty at all. I have several videos on the matter. You don't "risk being dropped by the pack" at a low trainer difficulty unless you are in an extreme gearing and TD combination, e.g., small chain ring, high on the cassette and sub 25%. I suggest not making accusations about people's level of knowledge when you have not done the requisite research.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic No, you dont risk getting dropped, you get dropped period. I tried it due to a malfunction on my trainer giving me zero difficulty on crit city. That means I had to increase my cadence a lot on every small incline, and yes got dropped. Have you actually tried racing such races with 0 difficulty ? Up the alpe is a different matter, as you do not need to be in the draft, and steady high cadence will be easier.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic for your information we were riding in C-kategory, gearing was 50x16, everybody on higher difficulty just keep the cadence, and their power flies from 230 up to 400 in an instant, if you do not react they are all gone in 4-5 seconds. Pretty sure you dont race much from your "theories" and research as presented.
@@S9999Frank for your information, the 50% limit was instantiated in late 2021. I've been on the platform for SEVEN years, been a beta tester and have had personal conversations with the developers. Your incompetence in racing is not my problem. If you got dropped, its not a trainer difficulty problem, its a you problem. Enjoy your day.
@@EverythingIsPhotogenic haha, you are so charming. Just confirming the fact that you are not actually racing with your useless comment. Try again, what do you think happens when resistance increases due to an uphill and most riders are between 30 and 50% on the trainer setting, while you are on 0 ? They will try to keep their cadence up, while you will notice it and have to react by either increasing cadence by a pretty large percent, or switch to heavioer gears. That is called being at a disadvantage, but since you are obviously not doing these kind of races, how would you know ? Bet you are good at the theory. Good for you.
You made some mistakes in your analysis. ZwiftPower doesn't disqualify a C rider, for example, for 3.2 w/kg in a single race. They allow you to go to 3.4 - to encourage exceeding your category. You would have to average 3.2 w/kg for 3 races, and in that case you would be upgraded to B cat. Secondly, people can win races, and I've won many. But, if you enjoy winning races, you have to look for the race that fits. Even a race with smaller attendance can help, like a late night race with 10 riders. Personally, I don't cheat. Because I'm heavy in real life, I put down my real weight, and that puts me in C cat - is being honest sandbagging? Lol, I think being honest has to be allowed. so, even though I have good power, I can go to C cat, which I love being in C cat. As long as you are right on the edge of nearly upgrading, you can work with that to win races - and you mentioned one of the ways you do that. You join a mixed category race, move swiftly into a group of A riders and hold their wheel. Those A cats don't have better power than me, they are just really thin, and on a flat race, it doesn't help them as much. As a C cat, I don't need to hold their wheel the whole race either, even 50% will rocket me ahead enough of other C riders, that I can solo to the finish, if I do get dropped. Eh, doesn't always work, but its worked often enough. Another thing is, many C riders aren't good at hills. at my weight, I wouldn't be good at a real hill either, but if you take a little 1m hill like the one on Innsbruckring - sprint up that hill, that's worked for me to beat other C riders ....So I find success at Innsbruckring, and 1 hour flat races, and flat time trials. I will not ever win at Downtown Dolphin, although I race there too because it bumps my punch ranking, but I cannot win...that type of race always comes down to the sprint finish, and so its a race for sprinters. I do appreciate when they don't mix categories, but I do even better at those races - not sure why, but I think it comes down to the fact that I'm not a sprinter. So I've just gotten used to looking for races that turn into an hour long drag. If you look at the math, say you can hold 280watts for an hour. And you hold that steady, 1st 20m is 280 watts, 2nd 20m 280watts, 3rd 20m 280watts. Well in that case your real ftp, by definition is 280watts. But. Zwiftpower, could calculate it as an estimate based on 95% of 20m, so in this example. or 266watts. It's a real advantage for categorization purposes if you can really put out your ftp for an actual hour. This is why I occasionally win even a hill race. That comes when the field of competition isn't particularly strong, and it's a race that ends with a 1hour trek up alp de Zwift. I can technically put out more power without violating zp w/kg. I didn't make the rules.... anyway - that's some race thoughts. I think if people took the angle that you can win races, you'd be surprised at the many ways to win races. They aren't really all won by cheaters - I'd say if you get used to looking at zp results, they are mostly won by honest people.
I did not make errors. Take a look at the date on the video. Things have changed on ZP since publishing. As for the rest of your analysis, I have a whole catalog of videos that touch on power execution. Enjoy your day.
YOU can win races because you're heavy and have power but a middle weight can't.
A small rider can win races because they fall below the FTP limit for the next cat up. Their W/Kg can be higher before they hit the limit.
If a heavy rider and a middleweight, say 70Kg, rider both climb at 3.1W/Kg limit they're both climbing at the same speed.
The middleweight won't win on the climb and will be left for dust on the descents and flats because their power is so much lower.
There are no top 10 Cat C 70Kg-75kg riders for that reason and only a single 1 in the top 40.
Be light or be heavy but don't be in the middle because you will NEVER win. :D