Interesting! I just attended an event in Manti last week called "dinner with Porter Rockwell" and this "transformation" event was mentioned. A lady raised her hand and says she read about that event in her ancestors journal. Just before watching your video I texted the hosts to see if they knew who that was and how I could get a hold of her. I want to see the journal and when it was written and if it's original or not. My belief is that it's not a record written on that day, but like Laud here was decades later. I have also heard somewhere that BY was skilled at impersonations.
These are a couple of other things I have been wondering about lately....if prophetic succession is really supposed to be senior apostle to senior apostle then-if my memory serves me correct-that would have been Sydney Rigdon and not Brigham Young. And this transfiguration thing, after learning about Brigham's many other lies I couldn't help but also find this suspicious. I looked it up on the church website and there weren't convincing sources provided for it at all. The church also often circulates a quote that supposedly originated with Joseph Smith (the one about like 'I will give a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the twelve you will neevr be led astray'), but Brigham Young and a few other polygamist men are some of the original sources for that as well as multiple unidentified people. It's presented as if it was from a sermon given by Joseph himself yk the whole church, and yet when I search there is never a single recorded sermon by Jospeh that it actually goes back to. So I figure it's also fabricated and instigated by Brigham. :/ I wanted to ask, just out of curiosity if you dont mind, how you came to learn about these lies that are told in our church and what led you to find all of these specific records you present in your videos? I have found many things myself but was directed to them mostly by Richard and Pamela Price. Before reading their JSFP series I had no idea any of these evidences existed in our archives bc ofc, the church just never mentions any of them. :/
I first came to learn about all of this when I started to seriously study D&C 132. I realized that it did not make any sense. I started looking at more and more original documents. I found a lot of things that I never knew.
The real succession was supposed to be Hyrum Smith but being killed with Joseph left the church to whomever was up to the task of leadership. Brigham Young being a strong willed personality took charge
@@IBelieveJosephthanks for sharing. Mine came about after the letter strongly “urging” all members to take experimental science. I’m still active, but see things very different from 2 - 3 years ago.
Yeah, this “Brigham turned into Joseph” story always seemed dubious to me. Stuff like this didn’t happen in the scriptures and one should ask why the Lord would want to “trick” the people into thinking they were still following Joseph.
When you get into the sources, it’s eerily similar to the way polygamy was built up. No reference at all at first, then some vague allusions, then over the years some more specific references, then all of a sudden (after Brigham talks about it in conference) everyone knows it happened that way, even though they didn’t mention anything about it when they described the event at the time.
The “transfiguration” encounter was probably fabricated by BY and definitely not of God: "Whatever is good comes from God, whatever is evil comes not from Him. God is not the author of confusion, strife, and darkness, but of peace, order, and light. The Spirit of the Lord would never distort the countenance or the form of man, you may be sure of that. When the Holy Spirit possesses you, your soul is filled with joy and love and peace beyond the power of words to express. It is the other power that contorts the face, strikes fear to the heart, and creates doubt and disorder" (Joseph Smith, The Juvenile Instructor, Vol 43, No 3, Mar 1, 1908, pp 89-90).
Great question! These are my views. Many things that I talk about are very similar to what the RLDS church used to believe before they became the Community of Christ.
@blizzard2oo Hello! I'm familiar with the words of Gamaliel. I hope that you actually watched the video, and aren't just responding to the thumbnail. The main topic of the video is about how George Laub rewrote his journal with the express purpose of adding ahistorical information to support Brigham Young. Hopefully you're not suggesting that lying is something that God supports. Girls marrying at 14 was not unheard of in 1840s frontier America, but neither was it "very common." Especially when, as in this case, the girl had just turned 14 and was 8 months pregnant.
Thank you.
Interesting! I just attended an event in Manti last week called "dinner with Porter Rockwell" and this "transformation" event was mentioned. A lady raised her hand and says she read about that event in her ancestors journal. Just before watching your video I texted the hosts to see if they knew who that was and how I could get a hold of her. I want to see the journal and when it was written and if it's original or not. My belief is that it's not a record written on that day, but like Laud here was decades later. I have also heard somewhere that BY was skilled at impersonations.
Fascinating! Let us know if you can get a look at the journal.
Having lived in Manti for 2.5 years, I can totally see this happening. Something in the water up there. 😳
@senecaaurelius1811 lol...I was thinking the same thing🤣. People over there are seem extra special
I am a Manitoba Rigdonite, so it is interesting to see the stuff he came up with about that.
These are a couple of other things I have been wondering about lately....if prophetic succession is really supposed to be senior apostle to senior apostle then-if my memory serves me correct-that would have been Sydney Rigdon and not Brigham Young. And this transfiguration thing, after learning about Brigham's many other lies I couldn't help but also find this suspicious. I looked it up on the church website and there weren't convincing sources provided for it at all. The church also often circulates a quote that supposedly originated with Joseph Smith (the one about like 'I will give a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the twelve you will neevr be led astray'), but Brigham Young and a few other polygamist men are some of the original sources for that as well as multiple unidentified people. It's presented as if it was from a sermon given by Joseph himself yk the whole church, and yet when I search there is never a single recorded sermon by Jospeh that it actually goes back to. So I figure it's also fabricated and instigated by Brigham. :/
I wanted to ask, just out of curiosity if you dont mind, how you came to learn about these lies that are told in our church and what led you to find all of these specific records you present in your videos? I have found many things myself but was directed to them mostly by Richard and Pamela Price. Before reading their JSFP series I had no idea any of these evidences existed in our archives bc ofc, the church just never mentions any of them. :/
I first came to learn about all of this when I started to seriously study D&C 132. I realized that it did not make any sense. I started looking at more and more original documents. I found a lot of things that I never knew.
The real succession was supposed to be Hyrum Smith but being killed with Joseph left the church to whomever was up to the task of leadership. Brigham Young being a strong willed personality took charge
@@StompMom5”strong willed” would be one of the nicer things we could say about BY.
@@IBelieveJosephthanks for sharing. Mine came about after the letter strongly “urging” all members to take experimental science. I’m still active, but see things very different from 2 - 3 years ago.
@senecaaurelius1811 Ooh....I wish I knew what I said🤣. My comment seems to have disappeared.
So glad you did this video!! I have been wondering where this story came from. I figured it was an unreliable historical source🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, this “Brigham turned into Joseph” story always seemed dubious to me. Stuff like this didn’t happen in the scriptures and one should ask why the Lord would want to “trick” the people into thinking they were still following Joseph.
When you get into the sources, it’s eerily similar to the way polygamy was built up. No reference at all at first, then some vague allusions, then over the years some more specific references, then all of a sudden (after Brigham talks about it in conference) everyone knows it happened that way, even though they didn’t mention anything about it when they described the event at the time.
The “transfiguration” encounter was probably fabricated by BY and definitely not of God: "Whatever is good comes from God, whatever is evil comes not from Him. God is not the author of confusion, strife, and darkness, but of peace, order, and light. The Spirit of the Lord would never distort the countenance or the form of man, you may be sure of that. When the Holy Spirit possesses you, your soul is filled with joy and love and peace beyond the power of words to express. It is the other power that contorts the face, strikes fear to the heart, and creates doubt and disorder" (Joseph Smith, The Juvenile Instructor, Vol 43, No 3, Mar 1, 1908, pp 89-90).
Perhaps fabricated directly, but also stories have a way of growing over time, on their own or with encouragement.
Hey, im looking into the history of the LDS Church and came across this channel. By chance is the from the RLDS views or just your own?
Great question! These are my views. Many things that I talk about are very similar to what the RLDS church used to believe before they became the Community of Christ.
@@IBelieveJosephwe'll keep up the good work. I happened to come across your channel and have already watched most of them 👍🏾
I suggest you read the words of Gamaliel in Acts. Are you ignorant of the fact that marriage at age 14 was very common?
@blizzard2oo Hello! I'm familiar with the words of Gamaliel. I hope that you actually watched the video, and aren't just responding to the thumbnail. The main topic of the video is about how George Laub rewrote his journal with the express purpose of adding ahistorical information to support Brigham Young. Hopefully you're not suggesting that lying is something that God supports.
Girls marrying at 14 was not unheard of in 1840s frontier America, but neither was it "very common." Especially when, as in this case, the girl had just turned 14 and was 8 months pregnant.
Actually 18 was still the appropriate age at the time
@@IBelieveJosephhe didn’t watch the video. 🙄