**** If anyone has some good books to recommend about the "Golden Age of Islam", please do! As I say in the video, that's a topic I'd love to learn more about. I know it's very broad, but I'm not interested in academic-level depth, only a good, solid overview ****
Hi Tom ... firstly , thank you so much for this ...I'm now only a few cantos behind you and hope to be alongside you all soon . I have a book called Aladdin's Lamp by John Freely, a popular history, which explores how the knowledge of the ancient Greek world spread into Islamic world , looking at the Muslim scientists Dante mentions in this Canto , and how the Renaissance was born in the beginning of the 12c. I also read a book called Unbelievers by Alec Ryrie last year that explored the history of the critique of Christian theology before and during the Reformation, so Dante's reasonable questions about Limbo don't seem so out of step to me ...in fact you could argue that Dante is offering a cogent explanation to those critiques in his work ? Really love this project and the stimulus to my thinking . Thank you
@@hesterdunlop7948 Thanks so much Hester I’m going to check both “Aladdin’s Lamp” and “Unbelievers”. Yes I think you’re right about Dante’s explanations. By the end of the Comedy there is almost no major philosophical or theological matter that he has not addressed, which makes the work even more important (even though in some cases Dante is giving us his own opinion on things). Happy New Year to you !
Tom, thank you so much these video lectures on the Divine Comedy. My first introduction to it was in the late 80's at university. My professor was Ruggiero Stefanini. Those studies were some of the richest of my life. Now, I am writing a novel and for research, I am having to revisit its verses. These videos are invaluable.
"We live in longing." Wow. I have to confess that as a Catholic schoolboy I was always terrified of, and frustrated with, the concept of Limbo. I haven't read Purgatorio or Paradiso, and it's taking all my willpower now not to speed ahead and read Canto 19 in Paradiso. Patience, I hear, is a virtue. I again wanted to commend you on this project. Because it's such an expansive project I fear that at times you may lose faith in its value, but please DON'T! Be reassured that it's tremendously meaningful and useful.
I’m so grateful that I could connect with readers like you who appreciate the incredible value of Dante’s work. I know it’s a big project, but there’s no rush and even if it takes another couple of years to complete, it will be worth it. Thanks again for your encouragement, it’s really important.
but isn't it contrapasso since their ”sin” is not knowing of god, but they have to spend the eternity being fully aware of the divine presence and forever longing it? btw, thank you so much! you did an amazing job here :)
Virgil speaks (Line 20) : nel viso mi dipinge quella pietà which is translated by Musa to : paints my face with pity. In his notes he says Virgil (reason) can only think of pity and not really feel it. I find Musa’s distinction fascinating and I would never have concluded myself that was Dante’s intent.
Many readers - including myself - find Musa’s notes very insightful and more useful than others. I like his translation a little less, but that’s personal.
I have a question, How can Virgil feel pity for the dammed, doesn’t Virgil scold the poet for showing pity to a soul he encounters later? Just curious! ✋
That’s a great question. As a rule, the inhabitants of Inferno do understand God’s justice, but they don’t necessarily “agree” with it (and they never take personal responsibility). A good example is the atheist Capaneo, who keeps cursing God despite being under a constant rain of fire. Virgil is a different story: he is not really feeling pity for the souls in Limbo, but rather he is moved by the fact that Limbo is his own eternal destiny. So his compassion here is mainly about himself. Having said that, Dante does everything he can in the Comedy to tell us that, were it up to him, he would have NOT put Virgil in Hell. He comes back to this topic several times in Purgatory.
Im following along every day. This canto was a bit easier to understand. I have Hendry Wadsworth Longfellow's translation(because it came with Gustave Dore's illustrations) and it was easier for me to understand now that I'm a bit further into the poem.
I might be partial to Mandelbaum and Musa, as translators, because I find Longfellow’s translation a bit clunky in parts, but it’s also a matter of taste. Thanks for your comment! Looking back, I don’t know what possessed me to embark in such a long project 😅 But it was worth it.
@@tomlabooks3263 I got that version for Gustave's work and it was a special edition. Just decided that I'd get help to help understand and thats where you come in lol. These youtube video continue to give back and will continue to give back over time. You're helping a lot and you should be proud of that! If i were still in LA i'd go get coffee with you as a thank you haha
You are a wonderful illustrator of this text with the background history, the minds of the greats that influenced Dante, his attitude toward his place among them. Grazie e Avanti!
Love the idea of Dante giving a book tour! I am not sure how illustrations show in the edition you have, but this canto is where the illustration of the first seven circles of hell is presented. I was just researching books on the Golden Age of Islam, as it is something I too have been interested in, and from what I found, the book(s) most recommended and seem to be very well received is the two volumes of "Medieval Islamic Civilization: an Encyclopedia" by Josef Meri.
Lots of interest in this canto although it is not as beautiful as the previous three for me. I did like the image of travelling through a wood again but this time it is made up of spirits. I was charmed at the way you forgive Dante for assuming his place alongside Homer and his gang of poets. I appreciated your guiding as I would not have understood that the "hemisphere of shade" in my translation was actually light carved out of the overall darkness. I was brought up short when I hit Saladin. He was totally unexpected. I am amazed the opponent the crusaders was seen as being without sin. There is a cosmopolitan generosity in this. Medieval thought has the capacity to surprise.
Thanks for your comments Ros. Yes, Dante was full of himself and he knew about this character flaw of his, this is why in Purgatory he gives us hints that he (himself) will spend time in the circles of Lust, Anger and, especially, Pride. And I agree with you, the Saladin’s presence in Limbo is unexpected - this is why I’d love to understand a bit more about the muslim “golden era”. Western culture having been basically filtered by the Church, it’s no surprise that still today we don’t know much about many great muslim personalities who would deserve a much bigger place in history.
Thanks for your videos Tom, I'm a new subscriber, I’m from Mexico, I decided to buy The Divine Comedy in English translated by Henry Wadsworth but it’s difficult for me to read hahaha, I have just finished CANTO IV. At the end of every canto I read, I watch your videos to have a better understanding.
Hola Ernesto! Thank you so much for your message, it’s my pleasure. It’s interesting because in my latest video about Purgatorio 22 I talked about Inferno 4, and all the classic poets. The internal references are endless… impossible to keep everything in mind! 😅
This Canto made me think of the scene in Bettlejuice where the Mailtlands are taking a bit of a tour of the afterlife and they see the "poor souls who are lost" through a window. Such a sad scene (and yes, maybe it's sad that that's my frame of reference, but I'm a simple girl 😂 ). I love the idea of Dante giving us a book shelf tour on BookTube! 📚 I have finished Inferno and will move on to Purgatory, but I wanted to thank you again for giving us these outstanding wrap-ups! 👏🏻 SO helpful!
I found the writing of of the first few lines moved me, almost to tears. I felt Virgil's empathy for them all. I 'knew' of limbo but never described in this way. It was good to know I was not alone with my thoughts, as I also have trouble with the concept, which needled me as I was reading through it. Shocking to to see all the poets and philosophers in limbo, the Dead Poets Society. Sorry, couldn't help it.
🤣🤣 That is literally the Dead Poets Society, you’re right!! I agree it’s such a moving canto. Every illustration of this canto that I’ve seen inspires sadness.
Resisting not to jump to Paradiso 19 for Dante's reflection on that all important question! Good upselling Tom! Only 4 cantos in and am feeling the immenseness. And immense gratitude for what you are gifting us all.
It’s actually my pleasure, but thanks for the very kind words. To be fair, before I get to Paradiso 19 as part of this project it will probably be Christmas 2021, so feel free to check it out in advance : )
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate these videos. I’m a Dante addict because of you because your insight is just what I needed to access the brilliance of this poet.
Hi Judith - Dante’s Divine Comedy has so much life-giving force, I get more and more excited about it the more I re-read it! I’m so glad I was able to transfer some of my passion to you through this weird modern medium. Thank you for your comment 🙏🏻
Great point - I think it comes down to Dante’s times and the huge importance that Aristotle had, especially for St. Thomas and catholic philosophers. But hey, sometimes the pupil does surpass his master! (even though it wouldn’t make sense to say that Aristotle surpassed Plato)
Yes, one has to be _dead_ before 301 A.D. to make it into Paradise; Virgil doesn't get in, either 🙉😖😜 Received my Pinsky edition and I assumed it was new, but from 1994 😂
That’s right, and Dante is clearly not feeling good about Virgil not getting in ... although he prefers Beatrice ; ) Yes Pinsky is not new but it’s replaced previous translations in some universities, and at the end of the day it’s also about preference: his translation is more subtle and tries to be mire literal, while others (including Musa) focus more on readability. Thanks for passing by!
**** If anyone has some good books to recommend about the "Golden Age of Islam", please do! As I say in the video, that's a topic I'd love to learn more about. I know it's very broad, but I'm not interested in academic-level depth, only a good, solid overview ****
Hi Tom ... firstly , thank you so much for this ...I'm now only a few cantos behind you and hope to be alongside you all soon . I have a book called Aladdin's Lamp by John Freely, a popular history, which explores how the knowledge of the ancient Greek world spread into Islamic world , looking at the Muslim scientists Dante mentions in this Canto , and how the Renaissance was born in the beginning of the 12c. I also read a book called Unbelievers by Alec Ryrie last year that explored the history of the critique of Christian theology before and during the Reformation, so Dante's reasonable questions about Limbo don't seem so out of step to me ...in fact you could argue that Dante is offering a cogent explanation to those critiques in his work ? Really love this project and the stimulus to my thinking . Thank you
@@hesterdunlop7948 Thanks so much Hester I’m going to check both “Aladdin’s Lamp” and “Unbelievers”. Yes I think you’re right about Dante’s explanations. By the end of the Comedy there is almost no major philosophical or theological matter that he has not addressed, which makes the work even more important (even though in some cases Dante is giving us his own opinion on things). Happy New Year to you !
Tom, thank you so much these video lectures on the Divine Comedy. My first introduction to it was in the late 80's at university. My professor was Ruggiero Stefanini. Those studies were some of the richest of my life. Now, I am writing a novel and for research, I am having to revisit its verses. These videos are invaluable.
Wonderful to hear this! Thank you 🙏🏻
"We live in longing." Wow. I have to confess that as a Catholic schoolboy I was always terrified of, and frustrated with, the concept of Limbo. I haven't read Purgatorio or Paradiso, and it's taking all my willpower now not to speed ahead and read Canto 19 in Paradiso. Patience, I hear, is a virtue. I again wanted to commend you on this project. Because it's such an expansive project I fear that at times you may lose faith in its value, but please DON'T! Be reassured that it's tremendously meaningful and useful.
I’m so grateful that I could connect with readers like you who appreciate the incredible value of Dante’s work. I know it’s a big project, but there’s no rush and even if it takes another couple of years to complete, it will be worth it. Thanks again for your encouragement, it’s really important.
thank you sooo much for doing this
Thank you.
but isn't it contrapasso since their ”sin” is not knowing of god, but they have to spend the eternity being fully aware of the divine presence and forever longing it?
btw, thank you so much! you did an amazing job here :)
Thank you and yes, under that light it can certainly be read as contrappasso. It’s not as “visually or physically direct” as others.
Virgil speaks (Line 20) : nel viso mi dipinge quella pietà which is translated by Musa to : paints my face with pity. In his notes he says Virgil (reason) can only think of pity and not really feel it. I find Musa’s distinction fascinating and I would never have concluded myself that was Dante’s intent.
Many readers - including myself - find Musa’s notes very insightful and more useful than others. I like his translation a little less, but that’s personal.
Dante as a BookTube tagging in Book 4! Good one 😋
No doubt he would have loved BookTube! : )
I have a question, How can Virgil feel pity for the dammed, doesn’t Virgil scold the poet for showing pity to a soul he encounters later? Just curious! ✋
That’s a great question. As a rule, the inhabitants of Inferno do understand God’s justice, but they don’t necessarily “agree” with it (and they never take personal responsibility). A good example is the atheist Capaneo, who keeps cursing God despite being under a constant rain of fire. Virgil is a different story: he is not really feeling pity for the souls in Limbo, but rather he is moved by the fact that Limbo is his own eternal destiny. So his compassion here is mainly about himself. Having said that, Dante does everything he can in the Comedy to tell us that, were it up to him, he would have NOT put Virgil in Hell. He comes back to this topic several times in Purgatory.
@@tomlabooks3263 ✋👍
Im following along every day. This canto was a bit easier to understand. I have Hendry Wadsworth Longfellow's translation(because it came with Gustave Dore's illustrations) and it was easier for me to understand now that I'm a bit further into the poem.
I might be partial to Mandelbaum and Musa, as translators, because I find Longfellow’s translation a bit clunky in parts, but it’s also a matter of taste. Thanks for your comment! Looking back, I don’t know what possessed me to embark in such a long project 😅 But it was worth it.
@@tomlabooks3263 I got that version for Gustave's work and it was a special edition. Just decided that I'd get help to help understand and thats where you come in lol. These youtube video continue to give back and will continue to give back over time. You're helping a lot and you should be proud of that! If i were still in LA i'd go get coffee with you as a thank you haha
You are a wonderful illustrator of this text with the background history, the minds of the greats that influenced Dante, his attitude toward his place among them. Grazie e Avanti!
Grazie mille 🙏🏻
Great stuff. Very interesting that Dante included Muslim thinkers as well.
Love the idea of Dante giving a book tour! I am not sure how illustrations show in the edition you have, but this canto is where the illustration of the first seven circles of hell is presented. I was just researching books on the Golden Age of Islam, as it is something I too have been interested in, and from what I found, the book(s) most recommended and seem to be very well received is the two volumes of "Medieval Islamic Civilization: an Encyclopedia" by Josef Meri.
Thanks a lot I’ll look it up.
Lots of interest in this canto although it is not as beautiful as the previous three for me. I did like the image of travelling through a wood again but this time it is made up of spirits.
I was charmed at the way you forgive Dante for assuming his place alongside Homer and his gang of poets.
I appreciated your guiding as I would not have understood that the "hemisphere of shade" in my translation was actually light carved out of the overall darkness.
I was brought up short when I hit Saladin. He was totally unexpected. I am amazed the opponent the crusaders was seen as being without sin. There is a cosmopolitan generosity in this. Medieval thought has the capacity to surprise.
Thanks for your comments Ros. Yes, Dante was full of himself and he knew about this character flaw of his, this is why in Purgatory he gives us hints that he (himself) will spend time in the circles of Lust, Anger and, especially, Pride.
And I agree with you, the Saladin’s presence in Limbo is unexpected - this is why I’d love to understand a bit more about the muslim “golden era”. Western culture having been basically filtered by the Church, it’s no surprise that still today we don’t know much about many great muslim personalities who would deserve a much bigger place in history.
Thanks for your videos Tom, I'm a new subscriber, I’m from Mexico, I decided to buy The Divine Comedy in English translated by Henry Wadsworth but it’s difficult for me to read hahaha, I have just finished CANTO IV.
At the end of every canto I read, I watch your videos to have a better understanding.
Hola Ernesto! Thank you so much for your message, it’s my pleasure. It’s interesting because in my latest video about Purgatorio 22 I talked about Inferno 4, and all the classic poets. The internal references are endless… impossible to keep everything in mind! 😅
This Canto made me think of the scene in Bettlejuice where the Mailtlands are taking a bit of a tour of the afterlife and they see the "poor souls who are lost" through a window. Such a sad scene (and yes, maybe it's sad that that's my frame of reference, but I'm a simple girl 😂 ). I love the idea of Dante giving us a book shelf tour on BookTube! 📚 I have finished Inferno and will move on to Purgatory, but I wanted to thank you again for giving us these outstanding wrap-ups! 👏🏻 SO helpful!
You’re very welcome. Happy readings!
I found the writing of of the first few lines moved me, almost to tears. I felt Virgil's empathy for them all. I 'knew' of limbo but never described in this way. It was good to know I was not alone with my thoughts, as I also have trouble with the concept, which needled me as I was reading through it. Shocking to to see all the poets and philosophers in limbo, the Dead Poets Society. Sorry, couldn't help it.
🤣🤣 That is literally the Dead Poets Society, you’re right!! I agree it’s such a moving canto. Every illustration of this canto that I’ve seen inspires sadness.
Resisting not to jump to Paradiso 19 for Dante's reflection on that all important question! Good upselling Tom! Only 4 cantos in and am feeling the immenseness. And immense gratitude for what you are gifting us all.
It’s actually my pleasure, but thanks for the very kind words. To be fair, before I get to Paradiso 19 as part of this project it will probably be Christmas 2021, so feel free to check it out in advance : )
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate these videos. I’m a Dante addict because of you because your insight is just what I needed to access the brilliance of this poet.
Hi Judith - Dante’s Divine Comedy has so much life-giving force, I get more and more excited about it the more I re-read it! I’m so glad I was able to transfer some of my passion to you through this weird modern medium. Thank you for your comment 🙏🏻
I had to laugh when I saw that Plato’s student Aristotle was at the head of the table and Plato and Socrates held lesser status.
Great point - I think it comes down to Dante’s times and the huge importance that Aristotle had, especially for St. Thomas and catholic philosophers. But hey, sometimes the pupil does surpass his master! (even though it wouldn’t make sense to say that Aristotle surpassed Plato)
Yes, one has to be _dead_ before 301 A.D. to make it into Paradise; Virgil doesn't get in, either 🙉😖😜 Received my Pinsky edition and I assumed it was new, but from 1994 😂
That’s right, and Dante is clearly not feeling good about Virgil not getting in ... although he prefers Beatrice ; ) Yes Pinsky is not new but it’s replaced previous translations in some universities, and at the end of the day it’s also about preference: his translation is more subtle and tries to be mire literal, while others (including Musa) focus more on readability. Thanks for passing by!
@@tomlabooks3263 I like the translation.
Amazing. Thank you !
Thanks for watching! : )