Just removing old saturated cement backer from our bathroom, we had black mould forming, previous person installed it before didn't use any SPR/Waterproofing, just dot/dabbed the board onto what seems to be a concrete screed of about 15mm (no studs), now getting the insulated type and starting again with it all.
To cut 12mm Hardibacker I use their "score and snap" carbide knife. I use a 2 metre long piece of 30x30x3mm aluminium angle as a straight edge and score the cut line on both sides between 4 and 6 times. Then I put the ally piece on the ground to make a prism, balance the board on it, step on one side and slowly lower my foot on the other side. Although you still need to use an angle grinder if your cutting little bits off the end with at least a half-respirator mask should be used given the dust can be harmful. I use the STS "Mega Strength Adhesive" which works really well; it expands to fill any gaps. Keep up the great videos :)
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 I saw a video with a very simple idea for cutting a large (about 120mm dia) hole in a fibre cement sheet simply using a strip of ply and two woodscrews. With the screws in the ply spaced by the desired radius he screwed one screw in to the centre of the required hole and progressively extended the other screw out from the bottom of the ply as he scored round the circle. Not as quick as a hole saw but no dust and quick enough for a DIY job for a fraction of the cost.
Nice clear video, thank you. I'm planning a bathroom refurb, I've already got it back to masonry, but the walls are all out with random bricks sticking proud here and there. I was thinking to dot n dab Jackoboard and use mechanical fixing like you've done. I'm just not sure about putting the screws and plugs into the brick work, as its a solid external brick wall. I'm also wondering if D&D is enough, or if i should bed the board on a full bed of tile adhesive to take up the variation in the wall. Any thoughts are welcome, cheers.
I did a full bed of tile adhesive and screws on the masonry. Belt and braces in my view. With the random bricks sticking out, is chiselling them down an option? Or batten off the wall to give yourself a plumb wall, and just screw them? Use glazing packers and PU foam in the gaps, should give you a strong wall. Thanks for watching!
Thank you so much. Exactly the info I needed. Wasted a whole sheet of fibre cement board because I'm just not strong enough to score and snap it and it ended up broken in the wrong places 😐
I have a couple of questions regarding fixings into the backer board. For relatively light fittings (soap trays, vertical shower-head rails, etc) do you find the foam backer board gives enough grip with, say wall-plugs and stainless screws into just the backer or do you have to arrange for the studding in the right place to carry them? Also, when it comes to retrofitting grab rails etc that require a high load carrying capability would the board be able to take the tightening load if one was to, say fix resin sockets back into the brickwork. ( I ask because I don't want to clutter the wet room with grab rails while I'm still fit and healthy but can see I might want to fit them in my dotage) Any thoughts would be appreciated - thanks.
Good question, I knew where all my fixings were going, so made sure there was a stud behind. If you’re expecting to put lots of fixings in at some point, but not sure where, you could put a sheet of 18mm OSB behind the backer board. The backer board is water proof, so the OSB won’t get wet. Thanks for watching!
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 Many thanks for the reply. The idea of using OSB is very interesting. I was starting to think about using Hardie or one of the other fibre-cement boards but that idea gives me another option.
Great info, thanks. I decided to go for XPS NPM after this video and it’s great. One question though - how did you manage the brick side with screws? Did you predrill a hole then plug it?
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching! Yes I pre drilled holes, while just holding the board in place. However, if i did it again, I’d tile adhesive them to the wall, then drill and screw once the adhesive has gone off. I screwed whilst the adhesive was still wet and it shifted the boards out of plumb.
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 I thought pre drilling and using a wall plug would ruin the waterproof integrity of the boards, which is why I’ve been hesitant. I assume you used just a standard brown plug? Thanks for responding.
Hello. So if I apply backer board to my stud wall and brick wall will I need to plaster board over that and skim it then tile it or not? Sorry I’m new to this and trying to learn as I don’t know if I should just get my bathroom plaster boarded and skimmed of apply backer board and tile?? Please
Nice video. I'm looking at doing something similar. For the uneven walls (such as unplastered brick), the jacko video shows 'hammer in' fixings instead of your plug, disk & screw method, where they dot & dab behind a pre-drilled hole. Just wondered why you were not going to use that method please?
Thank you! I think either would work fine, but the boards aren’t that dense, so you need the big disks really. I would recommend not doing the fixing until the adhesive is dry as otherwise you’ll end up not level. Thanks for watching!
What did you use in the end to stick the foam boards to masonry walls? I've got similar breeze block wall but mine is pretty uneven and confused about the best approach for 1200 x 600 mm boards. Excellent channel btw!
Very kind of you to say so! The insulated board is branded Jackoboard, but I think there are a number of brands which are probably exactly the same product, so whatever is cheapest is probably best. I wouldn’t use it on a ceiling, plasterboard and some good paint suitable for a bathroom will be just fine. Thanks for watching!
Can the insulated tile backer board be placed on a stud wall which has got still the old plaster board on? It used to be tile on the plasterboard and it is in good condition.
I haven’t noticed any difference other than the colour, seems just as dense and I’ve seen plenty of people on RUclips using the purple type unbranded. Thanks for watching!
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 I only ask as I was told to use Wedi - termed waterproof against the bath and shower areas and use the termed water resistant Jackoboard elsewhere. I suppose the next question is what have you done for the floor and ceiling - Cement board or Schlutter?
I think it is personal preference, but I’m by no means an expert! I’ll be using tanking tape on the joints and screw holes anyway. For the floor I’ve used mapei self levelling screed, which I’ll then use tanking paint over as I’m not tiling the floor. I’ve decided to use click lock vinyl for the floor rather than tile, so it will just sit on top. The flooring im using is rated for bathrooms, the tanking paint is just belt and braces.
Completely agree with you, insulated backer board is my preference. I like the B&Q ‘q board’ as it comes in 2400 x 600 sheets as opposed to some which are only 1200x 600
I tried the B&Q "Q" boards, but the difference between them at 10mm and the Jackoboard at 12mm made it seem too flimsy. Even with studs at 300mm centres.
Sorry I’m not sure, i expect manufacturers websites will say the rating. 600 centres is quite big for a shower, you could consider a sheet of osb under the backer board for strength or add more studs. Thanks for watching!
I use the 12mm foam board on internal tiled partitions and 20mm foam board on solid external stone walls. I use a PU foam adhesive for both, screw fixing is not necessary. Having solid stone walls I use this on all my window reveals to eliminate cold spots. £10.78 a sheet if you buy a half pallet (40 20mm sheets)
I’m a tile bathroom guy, he used the wrong screws. Those screws are going to act as an anode cathode and cause rust behind tile, which will cause tiles to crack as rust on his “stainless steel” screws develops. Water hardness is going to accelerate the issue. He needed polyurethane end caps on his nails, this shower is going to fail in 2 years and the tiles are going to crack then cave in. Otherwise nice job.
All the screws are covered with tanking membrane anyway, so very unlikely they’ll ever get wet. Why do you put stainless steel screws in quotation marks haha, do you not believe they are stainless steel? Salty water with a water softener would be more of a rust concern than hard water. My electrochemical knowledge is only what I recall from my A levels, but I would have thought the wood studs would be a sufficient insulator to stop any flow of electrons, so I’m not worried. I’ll be very disappointed if this shower only lasts two years!
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 yes, wood is a impedance, but the flow of electrons in humidity changes the impedance and acts as conduit for flow of electrons. Membrane doesn’t help, it traps the moisture and accelerates the process, I made original post with assumption you put the membrane on which is why it accelerates it as it never dries. Polyurethane coated screws are the way to go, stainless steel doesn’t mean anything. They will rust especially when acting as an anode and cathode with the alkalinity of the adhesives used. You have highly negative charges on the boards which is why you don’t want any moisture on stainless steel. It’s going to corrode in that environment.
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759The tiles will be fine. Once you add tanking tape and membrane there is no water going anywhere. It makes you wonder how all these old houses are still standing when they didn’t use polyurethane cathode anode screws. 😂
@@joshjosh575you are waffling pal. Typical by the book kind of guy His stainless steel screws will be fine and his tiles will not fail. My bathroom is standard plaster board, standard plasterboard screws and tilled directly to it. Been sound for years and there’s 0 moisture and I have an access panel behind my shower stud and the backs of the boards are dry as a bone. This is not the correct way but it shows that water doesn’t always penetrate if grouted correctly.
@@joshjosh575the high pH environment would retard the oxidation of the iron in the steel. Uncoated rebar lasts decades (and longer if dry) in reinforced concrete despite the presence of water & oxygen due to the high pH environment within the set concrete. Rebar rusts way faster in pure water, like exposed to rain. (Dissolved gases slightly lowering water pH).
Just removing old saturated cement backer from our bathroom, we had black mould forming, previous person installed it before didn't use any SPR/Waterproofing, just dot/dabbed the board onto what seems to be a concrete screed of about 15mm (no studs), now getting the insulated type and starting again with it all.
Yeah that was my biggest concern with the cement stuff, you don’t want to be using a product that still absorbs water. Thanks for watching!
Hi, did you do a video about the next bit of this job - tapes, tanking etc? Thanks.
All really helpful stuff.
Sorry i didn’t do one! Glad you enjoyed this one though!
To cut 12mm Hardibacker I use their "score and snap" carbide knife. I use a 2 metre long piece of 30x30x3mm aluminium angle as a straight edge and score the cut line on both sides between 4 and 6 times. Then I put the ally piece on the ground to make a prism, balance the board on it, step on one side and slowly lower my foot on the other side. Although you still need to use an angle grinder if your cutting little bits off the end with at least a half-respirator mask should be used given the dust can be harmful. I use the STS "Mega Strength Adhesive" which works really well; it expands to fill any gaps. Keep up the great videos :)
Great idea, thanks for sharing! Yeah the dust isn’t great from cutting these boards, definitely needs a mask! Thanks for watching!
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 I saw a video with a very simple idea for cutting a large (about 120mm dia) hole in a fibre cement sheet simply using a strip of ply and two woodscrews. With the screws in the ply spaced by the desired radius he screwed one screw in to the centre of the required hole and progressively extended the other screw out from the bottom of the ply as he scored round the circle. Not as quick as a hole saw but no dust and quick enough for a DIY job for a fraction of the cost.
Nice clear video, thank you. I'm planning a bathroom refurb, I've already got it back to masonry, but the walls are all out with random bricks sticking proud here and there. I was thinking to dot n dab Jackoboard and use mechanical fixing like you've done. I'm just not sure about putting the screws and plugs into the brick work, as its a solid external brick wall. I'm also wondering if D&D is enough, or if i should bed the board on a full bed of tile adhesive to take up the variation in the wall. Any thoughts are welcome, cheers.
I did a full bed of tile adhesive and screws on the masonry. Belt and braces in my view.
With the random bricks sticking out, is chiselling them down an option? Or batten off the wall to give yourself a plumb wall, and just screw them? Use glazing packers and PU foam in the gaps, should give you a strong wall.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you so much. Exactly the info I needed. Wasted a whole sheet of fibre cement board because I'm just not strong enough to score and snap it and it ended up broken in the wrong places 😐
Can you plaster over tile backer board?
I have a couple of questions regarding fixings into the backer board. For relatively light fittings (soap trays, vertical shower-head rails, etc) do you find the foam backer board gives enough grip with, say wall-plugs and stainless screws into just the backer or do you have to arrange for the studding in the right place to carry them? Also, when it comes to retrofitting grab rails etc that require a high load carrying capability would the board be able to take the tightening load if one was to, say fix resin sockets back into the brickwork. ( I ask because I don't want to clutter the wet room with grab rails while I'm still fit and healthy but can see I might want to fit them in my dotage)
Any thoughts would be appreciated - thanks.
Good question, I knew where all my fixings were going, so made sure there was a stud behind.
If you’re expecting to put lots of fixings in at some point, but not sure where, you could put a sheet of 18mm OSB behind the backer board. The backer board is water proof, so the OSB won’t get wet. Thanks for watching!
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 Many thanks for the reply. The idea of using OSB is very interesting. I was starting to think about using Hardie or one of the other fibre-cement boards but that idea gives me another option.
Great info, thanks. I decided to go for XPS NPM after this video and it’s great.
One question though - how did you manage the brick side with screws? Did you predrill a hole then plug it?
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching!
Yes I pre drilled holes, while just holding the board in place. However, if i did it again, I’d tile adhesive them to the wall, then drill and screw once the adhesive has gone off. I screwed whilst the adhesive was still wet and it shifted the boards out of plumb.
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 I thought pre drilling and using a wall plug would ruin the waterproof integrity of the boards, which is why I’ve been hesitant. I assume you used just a standard brown plug?
Thanks for responding.
I used a tanking membrane to waterproof the screw hole. I used fisher plugs
Hello. So if I apply backer board to my stud wall and brick wall will I need to plaster board over that and skim it then tile it or not? Sorry I’m new to this and trying to learn as I don’t know if I should just get my bathroom plaster boarded and skimmed of apply backer board and tile?? Please
Tile straight onto the backer board. Id set it so it is flush with the plaster. Thanks for watching
Nice video. I'm looking at doing something similar. For the uneven walls (such as unplastered brick), the jacko video shows 'hammer in' fixings instead of your plug, disk & screw method, where they dot & dab behind a pre-drilled hole. Just wondered why you were not going to use that method please?
Thank you! I think either would work fine, but the boards aren’t that dense, so you need the big disks really. I would recommend not doing the fixing until the adhesive is dry as otherwise you’ll end up not level. Thanks for watching!
What did you use in the end to stick the foam boards to masonry walls? I've got similar breeze block wall but mine is pretty uneven and confused about the best approach for 1200 x 600 mm boards. Excellent channel btw!
I used tile adhesive, having primed the brick work first. Thank you, and thanks for watching!
Thanks for the reply! did you dot and dab then mechanical fix? Or covered the entire board?
@@rustyshackleford5496 they say to cover it which can be a pain if the wall isnt level
Covered the entire board
Great channel ..
Q....can i ask what Brand is that insulated Tile board ?
would you also use that board on ceiling... ( Future proof )
Thanks
Very kind of you to say so!
The insulated board is branded Jackoboard, but I think there are a number of brands which are probably exactly the same product, so whatever is cheapest is probably best.
I wouldn’t use it on a ceiling, plasterboard and some good paint suitable for a bathroom will be just fine.
Thanks for watching!
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 Thank you..for yr kind reply.
Can the insulated tile backer board be placed on a stud wall which has got still the old plaster board on? It used to be tile on the plasterboard and it is in good condition.
In theory yes, as the backer board should be waterproof. However, i wouldn’t do it, i would remove the old plasterboard first. Thanks for watching!
So do you notice any difference between the expensive Wedi versus the half price Jackoboard that you have gone for?
I haven’t noticed any difference other than the colour, seems just as dense and I’ve seen plenty of people on RUclips using the purple type unbranded. Thanks for watching!
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 I only ask as I was told to use Wedi - termed waterproof against the bath and shower areas and use the termed water resistant Jackoboard elsewhere.
I suppose the next question is what have you done for the floor and ceiling - Cement board or Schlutter?
I think it is personal preference, but I’m by no means an expert! I’ll be using tanking tape on the joints and screw holes anyway.
For the floor I’ve used mapei self levelling screed, which I’ll then use tanking paint over as I’m not tiling the floor. I’ve decided to use click lock vinyl for the floor rather than tile, so it will just sit on top. The flooring im using is rated for bathrooms, the tanking paint is just belt and braces.
Completely agree with you, insulated backer board is my preference. I like the B&Q ‘q board’ as it comes in 2400 x 600 sheets as opposed to some which are only 1200x 600
Good point! Thanks for watching!
I tried the B&Q "Q" boards, but the difference between them at 10mm and the Jackoboard at 12mm made it seem too flimsy. Even with studs at 300mm centres.
Hi. What is the minimum thickness foam board do you think i could use on a stud wall with stud work 600mm apart? Thankyou.
Sorry I’m not sure, i expect manufacturers websites will say the rating. 600 centres is quite big for a shower, you could consider a sheet of osb under the backer board for strength or add more studs. Thanks for watching!
I use the 12mm foam board on internal tiled partitions and 20mm foam board on solid external stone walls. I use a PU foam adhesive for both, screw fixing is not necessary. Having solid stone walls I use this on all my window reveals to eliminate cold spots. £10.78 a sheet if you buy a half pallet (40 20mm sheets)
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
You sure the PU foam is strong enough once it's tiled? What kind of adhesive do you mean...like the expanding foam types? Cheers.
Could you use grab adhesive to attach the backer board to the brick wall instead of tile adhesive?
I’m not sure, i would either use tile adhesive or PU spray expanding foam. Thanks for watching!
Tip top tips just about to use Jacoboard thank you ……also picked up some tips from comments😮
Glad it helped, thanks for watching!
If you want to try better plan, our Angesen Tile Backer Boards can supply you more help. Same quality as Wedi.
Thanks for watching
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 We hope to talk about more about the tile backer board,
I’m a tile bathroom guy, he used the wrong screws. Those screws are going to act as an anode cathode and cause rust behind tile, which will cause tiles to crack as rust on his “stainless steel” screws develops. Water hardness is going to accelerate the issue. He needed polyurethane end caps on his nails, this shower is going to fail in 2 years and the tiles are going to crack then cave in. Otherwise nice job.
All the screws are covered with tanking membrane anyway, so very unlikely they’ll ever get wet.
Why do you put stainless steel screws in quotation marks haha, do you not believe they are stainless steel?
Salty water with a water softener would be more of a rust concern than hard water.
My electrochemical knowledge is only what I recall from my A levels, but I would have thought the wood studs would be a sufficient insulator to stop any flow of electrons, so I’m not worried.
I’ll be very disappointed if this shower only lasts two years!
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759 yes, wood is a impedance, but the flow of electrons in humidity changes the impedance and acts as conduit for flow of electrons. Membrane doesn’t help, it traps the moisture and accelerates the process, I made original post with assumption you put the membrane on which is why it accelerates it as it never dries. Polyurethane coated screws are the way to go, stainless steel doesn’t mean anything. They will rust especially when acting as an anode and cathode with the alkalinity of the adhesives used. You have highly negative charges on the boards which is why you don’t want any moisture on stainless steel. It’s going to corrode in that environment.
@@TheDiligentDIYer1759The tiles will be fine. Once you add tanking tape and membrane there is no water going anywhere. It makes you wonder how all these old houses are still standing when they didn’t use polyurethane cathode anode screws. 😂
@@joshjosh575you are waffling pal. Typical by the book kind of guy
His stainless steel screws will be fine and his tiles will not fail.
My bathroom is standard plaster board, standard plasterboard screws and tilled directly to it.
Been sound for years and there’s 0 moisture and I have an access panel behind my shower stud and the backs of the boards are dry as a bone. This is not the correct way but it shows that water doesn’t always penetrate if grouted correctly.
@@joshjosh575the high pH environment would retard the oxidation of the iron in the steel.
Uncoated rebar lasts decades (and longer if dry) in reinforced concrete despite the presence of water & oxygen due to the high pH environment within the set concrete.
Rebar rusts way faster in pure water, like exposed to rain. (Dissolved gases slightly lowering water pH).
Too expensive
Compared to what? If you use plasterboard it won’t last and marine ply is similar price anyway.
£550 for 36m/2
£898 for 72m/2
Can you use Jackoboard on an external wall such as in the garden area?
I’ve not seen it used outside before, but I don’t see a reason why you couldn’t, worth checking manufacturer guidance though. Thanks for watching!