Cheap AKM DACs Suck. SMSL D6 DAC Review
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- Опубликовано: 8 авг 2022
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Dear Mr.Cheapaudioman i am looking for a dac/amp combo up to max 400$ to pair with Triangle Borea BR03 what would be your recomendation?
Randy you may have missed something on this one BURN IN , the first 25 + days I agree with your review then I did a 24 straight ▶️ opened up everything this SMSL D-6 was lacking did complete A/B,C with my integrated with Flagship ESS , NOS DAC , D-6
It was nothing like the previous days, everything increased , doesn't sound like the same DAC at all
Is there a smsl su-6 driver for ios?
Odd that you, recently, have been extolling the virtues of the SU-1, which has the same chip.
I beg to differ a bit (pun intended). My older Schiit Modi 3+ uses an AKM AK4490 DAC and I think it sounds great for the price I paid ($99). As everyone always notes (and they should) for all delta-sigma DACs, the implementation and analog output stage and quality of power supply has as much (or more) of an effect on the sound quality as the DAC chip itself. I'm happy I got it before the fire at the plant in Japan. Yeah, I like ESS Sabre DAC based devices too (have a Fiio BTR5-2021), and my Denon CD player uses a Burr-Brown (now TI) PCM1795. I think some get too hung up on the sausage making instead of the sausage itself. Engineers can do great things with *most* of the DAC chips out there today. YMMV. We've come a long ways since 1984...
I am a fan of SMSL. My desktop setup is an AD-18 paired with a set of B&W 600 series bookshelves and a monoprice 10" sub. But I agree, I find most of their stand-alone DACs to be harsh; my favorite "Budget DAC" is the Cambridge DAC 100, which I use in my Emotiva reference system.... GREAT REVIEW and THANK YOU!!
I don't think it's fair to use the thumbnail saying "AKM DACs still suck" for this video. I think it's SMSL's implementation that sucks, not the AKM DAC chip itself. Schiit (and many other manufacturers) sold tons of great DACs using AKM chips before the fire. Changing your designs (which everyone using AKM chips had to do after the fire) to use a different manufacturer's chip is a lot of work. So I think that's why so many DAC makers who switched from AKM to ESS are sticking with ESS, because it's so much work for these small design teams with limited resources to switch back...not because AKM DACs are inherently crappy.
As always, a DAC's sound is highly dependent on its chip implementation, power supply, and analog output stage. Those 3 things probably affect the sound of a DAC more so than what model of DAC chip is used.
I'm just replying to say that this person is correct.
Clicky bait.
I’ve had a bunch of ChiFi AKM DACS, most of which blew chunks. I don’t care whether it’s SMSL, Topping, etc., they all pretty much had the same flat, dry, analytical, 2-dimensional sound signature. I had the AKM-based Modi 3 and 3+, and the ES-based 3E is better balanced, more musical, and less forward sounding.
Yes, Kevin is absolutely right here.
Yes, very bad title. My J2 AKM arrived today, so hope it's good!
Has anyone been able to determine the difference between the ES9026PRO and ES9038Q2M DACs offered by Geshelli on the J2?
Supposedly this DAC has sound color modes in addition to the filter settings. Maybe one of those would help with the harshness up top?
Hey Randy. Love the content. When setting up my home theater, should I indicate large speakers in my amp. I have bookshelf fronts but I'm not sure if it would be better to set the fronts to large or the small speaker setting. I believe the amp is restricting some of the lows. I do have a sub but is there a chance it could sound better set to large? Thanks
Given your review of the Modi Multibit, why do you recommend the J2 over the Multibit?
FiiO K5 Pro AKM is freaking amazing. The AKM4499s are unbeatable for me. I have tried several different ESS and Burr Brown (TI) DACS. Not even close. I LOVE the AKM sound. Hell, I'm running an SMSL Sanskrit 10 Mk II with the AKM 4493 chip at work. Sounds WAY better than the ESS DAC in the JDS Labs Atom. My Sanskrit doesn't sound anything like what you describe. Nothing. In fact, I have the SU-6 on my desk as well. It sounds harsh and analytical, like all ESS DACs do to me.
Burr brown stuff is good I am not a fan of ESS they used to make pure garbage that left a bad taste in my mouth
Implementation is the key, i have rme adi 2 fs ess version, had topping e50. Topping e50 was harsh, rme is not, both have ess chips in them, tough different ones. But one might enjoy the topping sound more so pick your poison.
Rohm based Dacs seem to be a good mix of analogue and detail. I have a BB based pecan pi with isolated boards and high quality supply - it beats my 3k Lindemann
I'm on your side. I think the Sanskrit 10 Mk2 is the best choice at that price range. Also this might not apply to everyone but imo, if you want listen to details at analytical level, go for Sabre. If you want listen to "music", go for AKM.
Yeah I don't relate to the Cheapaudioman here at all. AKM based devices have always sounded a lot more musical to me than ESS based devices. ESS at least in my opinion regardless of implementation tends to sound a tad more analytical.
I vote for balanced outputs whether TRS or XLR. Makes it easy to connect to powered or active speakers/monitors. Also balanced headphone amps.
TRS sockets are likely WAY cheaper than any sort of XLR connecter to mount on equipment. A lot of home studio gear uses them as well. XLR seems reserved for mic inputs and main outputs on ADC/DAC interfaces.
TRS connectors in consumer 2 channel equipment are non existent in all the products I’ve owned and reviewed except for the instances I mentioned. I haven’t owned or reviewed everything of course. But I can count the number of trs integrations on one hand.
@@cheapaudioman just about any thing that has to do with music/audio production has trs. Mainly audio interfaces and some studio monitors
@@johnnybananas14 ironically all of my pro audio gear is either RCA or XLR. TRS is only used for unbalanced headphone output. I've only encountered TRS on speakers before and one annoying piece of gear that used them for microphone in/out. TRS seems to be more popular with mono systems which I have very little experience with. In my experience everything is either RCA XLR or speakon and rarely TRS. (That was a while ago so maybe things have changed or not)
@@cheapaudioman while not strictly marketed towards consumers, most entry level home recording interfaces use trs for everything but the mic/line inputs which are usually xlr and quarter inch ts combo sockets so they can be used for mics and instruments. Motu, Focusrite, Audient. Just to name a few examples.
@@udozink701 yup.👍 As a sound engineer for live bands, I saw a lot of both, but even some of the high end mixing consoles still use trs for channel inserts. Nowadays XLR is almost as cheap as trs, but trs will almost always go bad first.
It most certainly does have to do with implementation.. and that applies regarding any asic design .
I bought the WiiM mini on you recommendation. I just got it in, and I love that thing. I’m thinking of getting another one.
Be careful. They multiply like tribbles...I'm already on my 3rd and I found out they have a larger one with more input and output options coming out later this year for $149. Hopefully Randy will review it.
I have 2 Schiit Modi 3+ and a ESS Sabre in my Arcam amp, they all sound great.
Randy, I'd be interested to hear a detailed "shootout" comparison between the J2 (AKM version) and the Ares II, since I've read several opinions stating that the old AKM J2 was better than the current models. I'm rockin' an Ares II now, and the only thing I "think" I need is maybe a Loki to give the bass a micro bump. But if (like one of the commenters here said) the AKM J2 does similar soundstage/imaging as the Ares with a little more bass presence, I may have a cheaper-audio solution!
hey randy. what akm chipset dacs, if any, have you heard and liked?
I have the Jnog with the akm chip and love it. But then I am a Geshelli fan boy.
The AKM product list now contains a
AK 4191EQ. That seems to be the new flagship DAC Chip.
Is there information about which company or which devices receive the chip?
Good information Sir Randy, I’m still on the fence about good bang for the buck Dacs and or dad/streamers to get!!
Thanks for the honesty, good lookin’ out!
I’d like to know about that beat box in the background on that top shelf . I always notice it on many videos .
Also … looking forward to the full B2+ review as I have a set now and they didn’t get great reviews from a speaker reviewer who’s name rhymes with Barron . Just throwing that out there . Enjoy your reviews as always
Opinion on Geshelli Jnog 2 Dac and Schiit Asgard 3 amp stack for my next step?
Hi we cant get schiit audio in the Uk its like getting rocking horse droppings, theres never any stock .
Honest review. Much appreciated Randy.
I very much enjoy my Schiit Modius with the AKM 4493 chip. Not close to sharp, or even analytical. On the smooth and warm side, but with good detail.
My Schiit Modi 3+ with it's AKM AK4490 is still serving me perfectly fine and sounds great imho.
Dac's Dac's and more Dac's. After buying a couple "cheap" dac's in the last 18 months for streaming purposes I finally just went out and bought an RME. Now I don't worry about it anymore lol. Unless I end up wanting an exotic that adds some pleasant distortion I can't imagine ever buying another Dac. It's a money sucking rabbit hole..just find a decent one and spend your money on other things like speakers..those differences really stand out.
I got the RME too, I had Topping e50 before. It is good enough dac for me :) Amp on that is not great, for headphones that is, for iem it is great. Paired it with Singxer SA-1
@@NoVoiOvi I've never owned a Topping but I see people everywhere really rave about the 50 and 70 models. The RME is a bit pricey for a Dac but with all the extra functions and the build quality I think make up for it. I seen that Sweetwater has been having a deal that I believe lasts til the end of the year.., use their credit card and they give you like 4 years of no interest to pay it off.
Yeah i agree 100% solid dac, not going to swap anytime soon
Dude, TRS is fine, theres other models with xlrs. The reason I'm watching your video is because i was looking for a TRS output DAC
I dunno. Right at the moment, I have the SMSL D6 between the Bluesound Node (at redbook 44.1K, co-ax) and a Sugden A21eSE Signature over JBL 4349s. It sounds pretty good, no worse than my Denefrips Ares 2 in a different system. Maybe a bad sample on your end?
I would like to see a direct comparison to the last Schiit Modi that used AKM and the ESS based Modi that directly followed it, and or maybe the equivalent from JDS Labs Atom DACs. I say Schiit and JDS because I feel like those two companies tend to design their entry level DACs to what they think sounds best vs. some of brands from China that tend to design to measurements.
I have the 3+ and the 3E. The 3E is smoother, less forward, and better-balanced. I also had a JDS Atom + for a while and liked it a lot. I think the Modi 3E is the best of the three DACs.
Can this support android through usb c(not bluetooth)
Balanced TRS? iFi does it too. I had to get a converter to send balanced out from my ZenDac II to the SMSL AD200. It sounds great, but I'd probably prefer to stick to XLR plugs. Finding converter cables on Amazon is a bit of a crapshoot.
One of the unique advantages about the J2 is the extra set of inputs that it offers. .. actually a nice feature to have and probably gets a few extra points fanboy points for that lol
Randy, I hope you get a chance to listen to the Geshelli J2 with the AK4493EQ chip, at some point soon. It is *anything* BUT harsh. It has very good details and soundstage, but without drawing attention to it. The most noticeable quality is the very punchy and dynamic bass, with loads of clarity. Its bass is better than any other DAC I have heard, actually. And the overall tonal balance is clean and nimble and dynamic. Cymbals are great - they are nearly as good as the Ares II, in my opinion.
If $250 is in your budget, I think Geshelli is setting the standard for an AKM chip DAC - and maybe for all DACs up to the price of the Ares II?
I am with you on the performance of the Geshelli dac. It will take some convincing to make me consider any other.
I also received a new Geshelli J2 with the AK4493 chip last week. I agree that it is not at all harsh in the upper register. I did A/B comparisons with the built-in DAC in my Yamaha CD player -- and that Burr-Brown DAC was harsh (but detailed) by comparison. I agree that the J2 with the AK4493 sounds "golden" in my setup. Really enjoying it.
It's interesting that nobody that reviews any of these Chinese DACs can hear any differences between the explicit filter modes, which literally are designed to make audible changes to the signal, but everything else seems to be distinguishable by "golden ears" audiophiles. Someone explain that to me.
Look at the filters, most affect FR way higher up in the spectrum, notably 18/19khz and higher. Most people cant hear that. And even if someone can hear 19khz, they wouldnt notice a difference because its only 0.5db down around that region.
A lot of these probably do sound so similar that there's not much to talk about. (after all, a dac should be like a math test. You either converted the bitstream into the waveform with total accuracy, or you didn't, right?)
But the DAC story doesn't quite begin and end there, so I'll offer the quick(est) summary of my findings because this was (and maybe still is) something of a head scratcher for me too.
First up. The output stage. Once the chip, ladder, tubes, or whatever DAC topology you use, takes the digital bits and creates the analog waveform, it outputs that analog signal at a certain voltage. (Usually 2v for RCA or 4v XLR). But not all use that standard. Like preamps, some run hotter voltage. Some will likely have better power supplies or more accurate components to regulate and output that voltage more accurately. Bottom line. There are differences. And depending where that output signal is headed downstream, can impact sound. The DAC is also tasked with setting a reference voltage for 'building' the analog waveform. Say, 1v. That means the DAC assumes a steady state 1v reference voltage to 'plot' the values of the digital signal against. So when the digital stream starts flowing, the values are +/- some value (in reference to) that voltage. So. Quality of components that can remain stable can make a difference. A wavering reference voltage will mean less accurate calculations.
Second. The DACs ability to reject jitter. Errors in the timing information of the digital stream. Clocks will matter, and if using something like USB, the DAC will become the master clock for the chain, telling the streamer when to send packets.
Next up. Quality and implementation of the digital interfaces. If the upstream device can't accurately send the digital signal, there can be errors. The DAC may have noise that interferes with the signalling. Although the information in the signal is digitally encoded, it's still an analog voltage that represents the data. Noise and other interference can flip 0s to 1s and vice versa, and that may produce subtle differences to the resulting waveform. Digital audio is not like internet tcp/ip or computer file copying where there is handshaking and error checking. The stream is initiated and continues whether the receiving end got it all or not.
Next up is implementation. Those filter modes are an example. There is math occurring inside the DAC, and tweaks can produce different results. The digital music is assigned a value for the waveform voltage at a certain point in time, and then a value for the voltage for the next short interval. Like plotting two points on a horizontal graph, how you draw the line connecting those two points can make an impact. Do you draw a round arc to connect them, or a straight line? Do you cut the voltage quickly (sharp) or let the voltage drop a little slower (slow filter) after plotting? Again, many of these will be subtle. After all, you can't or don't want to completely change the music. Many of the differences we deal in here are about subtlety. And the manufacturer sets the parameters for these equations. Therefore, the delta between a sharp or slow rolloff may be greater in one DAC, and so minimal in another that it's barely recognizable.
I don't recall coming across much more, but I'm sure there is..I'm no expert and just feeling around in the dark myself. But I like learning how things work so I've done some DAC reading. Maybe some of this can steer you into other directions if you're so inclined. Like most things, it can get complicated.
My next big question is why two streamers (streamer A and streamer B) can sound so different if they are both streaming the same file and connecting to the same DAC? I still haven't made it very far with that one.. but it's complicated lol
Can't hear much of a difference either as the roll off typically exceeds 18K Hz...well beyond my hearing. Although over time, you might prefer one is easier to live with in how ultra high frequencies "may" effect lower frequencies or your perception. Not sure the benefit of a chosen rolloff design or how it really effects SQ.
@@AbsoluteFidelity Aren't most DACs flat to way greater precision than 0.5 dB throughout the spectrum? So what are people hearing?
@@EvanZamir most probably higher harmonics. For example, the D90SE was measured (not by ASR) to possess some higher harmonics by another site. Whether that is audible or not is another matter but there are differences in higher harmonics objectively.
Great, honest, review … thanks Randy.
I'm all for balanced being available on devices I don't care if it's XLR or TRS you can get monoprice xlr to trs or vice versa cables that are well made for like $15 a piece
Umm isn't the smsl su1 dac which you and others raved about made using this same chip? I have the smsl su1 based your recommendation and others and it is fantastic!
What kind of chip does schitt use?
I remember when it was all about AKM and Saber dacs sucked. Now it's Saber and AKM sucks, people are weird. I for one Love my AKM Geshelli JNOG.
I would much rather have 1/4 inch trs than xlr. It's a less bulky plug in both straight and 90 degree plugs and if you use 90 degree plugs you can spin them to whatever orientation you prefer.
Exactly!
Was thinking of getting this for a cheap option as a pre amp with Bluetooth to integrate a sub with my edifier s3000pro speakers in my living room. Seems to be getting quite a bit if negative press. Think I'll go for a topping e70 as I have one for my headphone setup and haven't had a issue with it. Nice big display also. Cheers Randy
Randy!!!!!
Keep up the great work…. Truly appreciate….. !!!!
@cheapaudioman, Thanks for the review!! Love your channel ! Would you consider reviewing the playback quality of "MOTU M2 2x2 USB-C Audio Interface". It uses a ESS Sabre chip , has a headphone amp built-in and RCA connection for playback. Would love to hear your opinion on the implementation of ESS Sabre DAC chip on this very affordable gear. Thanks!
Are TRS connectors cheaper than XLR?
I'm looking at this one. I'll never use BT so that's of little interest. I like the idea of a built in power supply. My preference is R2R but I can't justify the expense of a good reliable one which tend to be quite expensive if they can be found easily at all. Not keen on TRS, but...This D6 is on my short list...
Just get the Schiit Modi. If you need Bluetooth, there's adapters (although that is just another cable to run).
Will you review the sabaj a30a amp please
I was actually waiting on your view on Mofi.
Looks like the Schiit Modi is up to $129, still a better option, yeah?
I recently tried the .... SMSL VMV D1se DAC and was pleasantly surprised. Seems like the higher end SMSL and Topping stuff are decent
@@juicebox853 I liked the amount of different filters available too. Almost like having multiple DACS in one. Cool feature
This is probably the cheapest dac that has both balanced and non-balanced outputs. Toppings E30 II with AKM is about 150 USD and provides only non-balanced.
Personally I don't mind TSR, there are cheap cables that go into XLR that are easy to find.
TRS is a good way to have Balance out when you don't have the room for XLR. But low cost DAC's are place I will not go.
If someone looking for USB DAC with sub-out and Hi Pass Filter for speakers - try SoundBlaster X3.
I love the TRS outputs, for people getting their first balanced gear TRS cables are cheaper and easier to come by than xlr, plus if you have powered monitors they probably have a balanced TRS input. It's not a big deal unless you've invested in some overpriced audiophile xlr cables.
Thanks for being honest. Keep it up.
I have a liquid spark dac, which is a cheap AKM dac. I can say it sounds obviously better than my 10+ year old budget dac. I really wonder how it would sound compared to various J2s. But I can't bring myself to order them all to satisfy my curiosity.
Boath my xduoo dac headphone amps use AKM chipsets both sound excellent to me, a lot more to a dac than the chip being used.
As a person who owns a bunch of DACs and has tested tons of them; there are no differences in between DAC brands. Only in between implementations... If a DAC sounds proper or not; it has to do with implementation. However DACs that measure properly typically all sound the same as well, despite what DAC chip they are using.
This. You buy dac for the io and features. If it's a modern dac it's going to sound fine either way.
Suggest me a good dac based on akm under $200
@@marishkumar607 check out the Smsl DO or the newer Topping D30.
@@4llThaSmok3 it's not a hifi DAC. Nothing that is built into a DVD or CD player is hifi outside of a couple very specific exceptions.
I'd look to get something affordable depending on how you are going to listen to music, if it's through headphones or speakers.
@@4llThaSmok3 bitrate is just one thing. Actual SINAD performance and linearity are what are important for audio clarity. Check audio science review to find something affordable that performs well!
Wow. I almost always agree with you Randy. But this one we are miles apart. I have it connected to my smsl a300 monoblocked and into Monolith encore B6 speakers and it sounds simply amazing. Zero fatigue or sibilence (sp?) And brings out the highs of the Encore B6's unlike any dac I've tried. I bought the d6 thinking I'd just return if necessary, and it ain't goin nowhere. Lol. I love it.
I think there may have been something going on with Randy's setup. It could have been something like dirty power being delivered through the USB input, setup and configuration, cables, and/or associated equipment. Or just a bad ear day. I'd like to see a follow-up listening test, perhaps with a high-quality power source (linear or battery).
I don't believe the differences in modern DAC chips are particularly audible. In fact, I suspect that nearly all DAC chips sound darned near as perfect as the bitstream fed to them can be. Instead, I believe you may have inadvertently been evaluating the analog sections of these SMSL DAC products. As I'm sure you know, the output of any DAC chip is in the millivolt range, and must be amplified using op-amps, tubes, or discrete transistors to bring the output signal up to line level. I recall having purchased an MSB Link DAC many years ago that was the size of a large pizza box, which came with another equally large box that contained just the power supply. It's well-known that op-amps and analog circuits in general differ wildly in their sound quality. It's equally well-known that any integrated AC power supply that accounts for, say, $15 or $25 of the retail price, will likely never sound particularly great. So while I believe you identified legitimate issues with this SMSL product, my suspicion is that the flaws you heard may have largely been due to the inexpensive integrated power supply, very inexpensive analog components in the signal path, or both, and not necessarily the DAC chip itself.
What do you think of the AKM4490 and AKM5572?
The AKM4490 was used in the Schiit Modi 3+ prior to the fire in Japan...I have one ($99) and love it just fine for that price. Would be interesting to hear Randy's take on a Geshelli J2 with the AK4493 in it and see if he would hate it.
Way to tell how you heard it. Great review.
I doubt it's the AKM chip but SMSL's implementation.....poor internal power supply and component quality. Made down to a price.....
For sure. I mentioned that in the video. I’m sure it’s a carbon copy of what they’ve been doing for years
Dacs, speakers, amps all sound different to me (to some degree). At this point, I know what I like, dislike, absolutely need to have and what i am willing to do with less of. So nothing has been perfect but there is equipment I can live with in spite of occasional issues.
Thanks!
Yeah, but tell us how you REALLY feel. 😂 Thanks for the honest review!
Geshelli has the option of a AK4493 in their J2...just sayin' ;-) And they are excited about it. Actually it would be GREAT if you could borrow one from Geshelli. That would be the most apples to apples comparison between the DAC chips as possible. Two DACs designed by the same competent designer, same power supply and likely the same output stage and yep, at the same price point. Would be interesting to see if you still thought it sucked compared to their two ESS DAC chip based ones. Maybe you could put this issue to bed once and for all.
I bought a Geshelli J2 AK4493 DAC and got it last week. It is fantastic sounding - with the stock power supply (12v 2.1A wall wart) it is very similar to the Bifrost 2 in many ways - but with even better bass quality. I am using a 12V 2A linear power supply - and this takes it to another level. The clarity and layering and depth of the soundstage now rivals the Denafrips Ares II, in my opinion. It is truly amazing and is going to stay in my main system.
Starting at $250, it is a stunning value. I got the $50 USB option, and a $50 cedar wood case. You can get your choice of colors of aluminum cases and front and back plates, at no extra charge, though. The linear power supply I have is around $60 shipped. A yuge bargain compared to the Ares II, though I do like it a lot, as well.
@@NeilBlanchard good to know. I wonder what Randy would think of it compared to his ESS based ones? I know he'd be looking for whatever sound signature he has come to associate with AKM DAC chips, so I'd be curious if he'd hear that or not.
You got that early! I think their website said shipping August 8th. Cool.
I've had the Ares II in my mind as my "end game" DAC to buy with all the sonic coolness a R2R ladder can provide, but have been somewhat concerned about some on Amazon saying they had some quality control issues with them of late. I'm sure Vinshine would make good on them but it does have me looking at alternatives.
I've also read some Ares II reviews that panned their USB implementation as being not so hot to use, preferring to feed it via optical or coax.
The J2 in one of its incarnations or a Bifrost multibit might be the path of least resistance. Everyone says Schiit and Geshelli have great customer service.
Just curious, what linear power supply did you buy? Thanks.
@@NeilBlanchard could you mention where you ordered your power supply from? I'm looking for a cheap one from a place that could be trusted. Thank you
@@rosswarren436 I had my name in on a waiting list for the J2 AKM, though I ordered it the same day the website went "live" with the option.
I really like the Ares II, and the thing that keeps it from being my "end-game" DAC is the less wonderful bass quality - it is fine, if you don't have a comparison. I had a Bifrost 2 before I got the Ares II, and the Bifrost 2 has better bass of those two.
The J2 AKM has better quality bass than the Bifrost 2, and with the stock wall wart PS, the J2 comes close to the Ares II in the soundstage and layering. However, when I used a linear PS (and possibly some burn in?) the J2 AKM now equals the Ares II in many ways - so with its wonderful bass, it is now the DAC to beat, for me.
Which is very surprising - R2R is still a very good thing, but going by iiWi's reviews, I am considering possibly the Musician Pegasus, or more likely the Ladder Schumann DAC as my "end game" DAC. And until I can swing for the $1200-1400 pricetag on those, have a runaway value in the Geshello J2 AKM.
I have a 12V 2A unit branded as BRZHifi, that uses a toroidal transformer that is branded Bingzi; and I got it from AliExpress a while back. It now ships for about $60 or so, I think? There is another brand Breezy Audio (I think?) that is virtually identical.
Was thinking about getting a modi multibit, but if the J2 is that good...may take that path instead.
Great review and thanks for giving us your honest opinion. I've never heard a AKM dac YET but I think I'm going to have to keep waiting for a little bit longer.
You've sold me 3 of these damned things, Randy. 😅 (edit: WiiM minis)
I got two...LOL...They are addicting for the price/performance, especially when paired with an outboard DAC.
2
If ‘balanced’ means the same here as any pro-audio context (unlike the balanced headphone stuff), then balanced TRS is everywhere from live-audio consoles, synths, to powered studio monitors (YAMAHA HS series for example).
for Run to the Hills I recommend grabbing a copy of "Best of the Beast" from 1995. Sounds much better than the remaster. The original is still the best in my opinion.
That's the problem, how good are the recordings being used in these reviews. Plus how good are the speakers.
Not always true. The KM4493s in the Topping DX1 paired with neutral/warm/dry passive speaker is awesome! Not awesome with bright speaker (Sony SS CS5).
Ares II, never looking back...
I don’t think TRS is a big deal to worry about. Still a balanced output and has been very common connections on amps for years. Just another set of cables needed.
Topping D70s and never looked back. D50s is a good option for the price too. The new D90LE is said to be improved in stage depth.
SMSL do have some nice models as well but for one reason or another, don't care for their really low end models. I trust Topping build quality and reliability more too.
I'm with you, love the D70s👌
I've just been demoing my Geshelli J2 with the AKM yesterday and after leaving on for 22hrs, today.
In order to level match against my Denafrips Pontus II I ran my Vault2 into my Pontus via coax and my Node2 via coax into the J2. I use the sliders in the Bluesound app to level match, by ear. My RadioShack Meter, slow, C weighted agreed.
Music was mostly Daft Punk and Neil Young, with Stina Nordenstam, Alanis, and Emmylou Harris. Amp Musical Fidelity KW-500, speakers Aerial Acoustic 6. Not blind tested, just me with the remote.
I've had other DACs through my system, some quite easy to discern from another, the Pontus being the most natural without being boring, the one I kept. The Geshelli is Incredibly close!
On Daft Punk the difference was Geshelli had slightly more and better bass. On The Son of Flynn 1:00 in the block sounds in the back of the mix slightly less sparkle.
On all the female artists, no change in vocal presentation, Stina is treble forward, same on both. Alanis: All I Really Want is a great demo track, so much in it but not recorded great, you want it to sound distinct but not harsh. Again the Geshelli was just as good. Same with Emmylou, except Deeper Well has huge bass.
Now we come to Neil Young and this was the only place I heard anything notable. The Pontus had a little more Sparkle on Piano and picked strings. Massey Hall 1971. I think this is only a tonal balance thing. The other was on A Man Needs a Woman/Heart of Gold, the reverb on Neil's voice at 4:00 to 4:30 and at 5:20 is slightly different. The Pontus places him back in the reverb and the air is around him and it's together, whilst the Geshelli sticks him slightly ahead and it sounds as if he is in void, the reverb behind him is now separate, a little disconnected. The LP has the same air/reverb as the Pontus, so I think the difference is a Geshelli thing. This is really nitpicking. The Pontus does have a little more extension up top overall, the Geshelli goes a little lower. In my system I don't need the extra low, so happy with both.
As for sibilance, no more so on the Geshelli. I also tried Toslink, again no noticable difference.
I doubt the chip make much difference, I've swapped op amps on a DAC before, that and power supplies make more difference.
Thanks for getting this far. Neil
Wow. Thanks. I thought you were going to compare the Geshelli J2 AKM4493 against the Ares II, not the double in cost Pontus II. That the $300 J2 is "close" in performance to a DAC costing nearly 6X is pretty freaking amazing.
Do you have anything to say about the "soundstage"? Did one present a wider one that was noticeable or place instruments better? And if so, how much better?
Wonder where the Bifrost 2/64 will come in with a comparison between these two?
But yeah, considering I could be totally happy with a J2 gives me pause about where best to spend my audio money. Thanks again. Didn't mean to "hijack" Randy's page, but all this is very interesting and shows he should demo a J2 with the AKM4493 before deciding that "all AKM based DACs suck". Would be interesting to have him directly compare the ESS Sabre based one to it and note any differences.
I also have to think that having peace of mind buying from Geshelli (or Schiit) compared to offshore manufacturers in knowing you can get something serviced for a reasonable price in a reasonable time period is worth something too. But we know you aren't going to find a surface mount R2R ladder DAC made in the U.S.A. anywhere near those Vineshine prices.
I've noted more than one Amazon review of the Ares II complaining that it was not "good" out of the box and they had to send it back for a refund. Fortunately, if bought through Amazon you have a window for that, just in case.
The soundstage was only different in that Neil Young case and only when flicking back and forth, you'd never notice it otherwise. The Pontus came about because I found my Oppo 105D a little soft, same with a cheap Schiit Modi. A NAD M51 was indistinguishable from the Oppo. I had sold a Logitech Transporter that I loved. The sound was punchy and fun, maybe not as refined as the Oppo, but I much preferred it, so wanted a fun DAC. I thought about Bifrost or Aries II for a long time but had the money so just got the Pontus instead. Had I known at the time a Bifrost, don't know which one had the same AKM 4396 chip as the Transporter, I'd just have gone and bought the Bifrost. No more DACs for now but I do have a cheap 'Finished' NOS R2R DAC on the shelf, the one with the OP swap I now need to fix 🙃 to go back into system 2 or 3. Before the OP swap, so flat and boring, after OP swap punchy and great! Not sure failure was my fault but I have spare op amps.
@@rosswarren436 May try a Linear Power Supply for the Geshelli before anything else, as Neil B. in another thread in these comments have done. For about $60 that might just be the missing link.
@@nacarp2000 I think Neil B mentioned that he got a relatively inexpensive one for $60 or so that made an audible and better difference. So yes, worth a try. Good luck and thanks again for the comparisons.
Odd, usually I'm notified when there is a new video up. Not this time.
I guess the Geshelli J2 AKM is well implemented as Neil Blanchard really likes it.
I'd like Randy to hear it and offer his opinion compared to the ESS ones he has...Would be very interesting.
I received my J2 AKM today. I'll give an opinion after the weekend
@@nacarp2000 yes please. Maybe let it run a few hours before making "real" judgements. Good luck.
@@rosswarren436 Ross, about to post my review as a new top level comment on this Thread.
@@nacarp2000 will look for it, thanks!
All sigma delta DACs are harsh to me. All sigma delta dacs also sound alike to me no matter the chip set. I could not pick out an AKM chip from a Saber or a TXI or Burr-Brown, Wolfsen, etc. Nobody has golden ears, but I have very good hearing - I took care because my eye-sight is so poor, but I can pick out anomalies in recordings, etc; not DAC differences within the same tribe though). That is why I am very delayed on getting an outboard DAC to take over duties of the DAC in my CD player or preamp. I'd like to hear an R2R DAC (even a Denafrips one, which I am not a fan of design-wise, but just to hear one) , but there is no chance of that happening.
Prices on everything are now past disgusting and harsh! $150 for a decent DAC is still not that bad, but can one get a decent DAC or anything for $150? Answer: No.
I'm surprised the audio industry has not taken a backseat to the now unaffordable basics in life such as food and fuel and the unattainable healthcare and car maintenance now! One can't eat capacitors and resisters as far as I know. Then again, maybe I should not be surprised, because people will sacrifice everything, including their own lives, for a Starbucks.
My next step is to get a Bellari EQ just for headphones, which I rarely use. (Sadly, they don't make full size EQs with spectrum analyzers anymore except for pro audio application and it is a migraine headache to try to adapt a pro audio piece such as an EQ to a home audio rig). The rest of my system doesn't need EQ except the very occasional old recording, but even then, I prefer to hear it as it was done (an impossible task with headphones except the very flattest ones and even then the signature is far different from what one will hear over room speakers for various "nature of the beast" factors, but also the obligatory room acoustics.
The thumbnail is click-baity and the statement in it is plain wrong. It's all about how the engineer implements it. The used DAC chip only accounts for a small part of the resulting sound.
I will take a AKM DAC over ESS any day.
Yeah... Like you can even hear the difference
Author of this movie has a strange problem with AKM....I never found AKM dac,s bad...Strange.🤔
TRS conectors are probably much cheaper than XLR.
I’ve had the smsl su-8s($150) for a week now…. I cried knowing I finally have sound stage and imaging at home now
What? You mean SU-8s? $150??
@@JonCurcio yeah, drop had it $180 and I used a coupon
So I hear the SMSL C200 supposed to be better. Also better when compared to than the topping dx3 pro plus.
Unlike this Dac, the SMSL C200 is less harsh on specifically Sundara's.
The dx3 pro plus graded on me with the Sundara's to be honest.
From interviews on line, Schiit is sticking with Ess for their lower tier Dacs and not going back to Akm
Yeah, see Kevin Gentch's comment above...Just not worth their time and effort to switch back again, not that there's anything wrong technically with an AKM chip. The fire in Japan and loss of supply and the work these companies did to keep their devices available means AKM won't be used in cheaper DACs...but Geshelli Labs does offer them as an option now in their J2.
Randy, that's a rather blanket statement, maybe fix the title and say this SMSL DAC sucks.
I thought the older Schiit Modi 3 had a cheap AKM... Never heard any reviewer complain about sibilance...
My Modi 3+ has an AK4490 in it. Sounds "good" to me, especially for the $99 it was back then.
Topping E30 II DAC. That's all you need.
I would not understand why anyone prefer unbalanced rca over trs
In my 30 years experience in digital audio I realised a long time ago that people worry far too much about which chipset their dac uses, the sound is made or broken in the analogue output stage case in point my audiolab M Dac Plus has only the Sabre 9018 yet wipes the floor with many of fthese Chinese dacs ( of which i own 6) mainly because of the analogue output stage. You wouldn't connect your £1000 phono cartridge with a £25 phono stage think of the analogue output stage as your phonostage, in fact some dacs from 30 years ago still sound amazing, case in point would be the Phillips TDA1541A Dac still the best dac I've ever heard when paired with a good analogue output stage, and you don't have to spend a fortune to sample this a Rotel RCD855 CD player from 1990 is a must listen to appreciate what I'm saying, avoid the 865 though as this was Phillips first bitstream dac and simply isn't as good.
nope, as of August 9th, $99 for the Wiim streamer, as per the link
Randy, where’s the B2+ review…..please do this soon….
Ur late to the party…
@Fletcher Fortune Now youre just in denial 🤣😂
Sorry dude but it really doesn't matter which dac chip is used these days. It is the circuit designed around it that matters.
Cheapaudioman
You said the Marantz NR1711 sounds good.
Marantz NR1711 has a built in AKM Dac so can't all sound bad
Wait a minute you praised the Schiit Modi repeatedly, guess what that’s an AKM chip.
All Dacs whether is Sabre, AKM, or R2R need to be evaluated individual. Careful of over generalizing.
The older Modi 3+ used AK4490 chips...but they switched after the fire (their 3E model) to ESS out of necessity and as others noted, due to costs, probably won't switch back.
Yes I understand
ACA-DACA.. Thew most rockin'
Yikes! Once I hear any sibilance in an audition, I leave the room ..... FAST! Only 'one-note bass' bugs me as much. This unit is a pass, then. Ah well. Thank you for your review! 🍺