my christian mother asked me why i was so distant and i told her it was because shes hurt me and won’t take responsibility for it and she said “any hurt or distance you feel isn’t from me, your therapist is brainwashing you” LOL
@littlebitofhope1489 Then it's always a good idea to ask "Which of my actions hurt you? How can I change my behaviour?". If the conflict is a result of an abusive mental health professional then asking this kind of questions might free a person from their control (or rather start the process). If it's not then you might find the reason why someone feels hurt. It doesn't have to mean their reasoning is right but you'll finally be able to understand them. And who knows. Maybe they'll be ready to listen you back
It’s wild that we live in a world where we have to “come out” as not believing in a thing, and yet so many feel like they’re persecuted for believing that thing.
I just had to come out to a friend tonight, who wondered why she couldn’t find me on Facebook. I admitted I’d blocked her because I’m very outspoken about religious extremism (truthfully it’s all religion) and didn’t want to scare her away. I still didn’t use the A word outright though.
There is genuine religious persecution of Christians going on in the world, but it seems to me that American Christians, for the most part, are more concerned about themselves - even though they've never experienced anything remotely close to persecution. I find it ridiculous.
You guys have helped me feel less lonely since I’ve left Christianity. I went to Bible College and served in Leadership in churches for most of my life, and since I’ve left, I feel like an outsider. Thank you so much for making these videos
@gnomishviking3013 the joke that was popular among my circle of friends was if you want to a person to be an ex catholic, send them to a private catholic school.
Love and hugs through the internet. The "outsiderness" is what so-called christian churches very subtly "push". By recognizing we are all individuals seeking our way in this world and it is NOT necessary to use the word fellowship only inside a church...you will find that there are a lot more friends or just friendly people "out there" than can ever be found in those tax free clubhouses, full of judgemental, self righteous hypocrites. At least that is what I've found.
I married a pagan while I was still a Christian. Before we got married I’d been talking about how I never really believed in the Bible growing up, but I did believe in god. And then one day I started thinking “why do I believe in this god when I don’t believe in the Bible?” Believing in god wasn’t much of an option growing up. My family was so convinced he had done something to me to make me become an atheist. He is still religious, I am not after all these years.
Magical thinking at play for them. They discard the reasoning presented and rather seek to find narrative in the order of events from you dating someone non-christian.
I'm a practicing Christian and I've appreciated the perspective you have shared about your faith journey. I started watching you because of your dialogue and critique of Christian content creators that I also disagree with. I admire that you both pursue justice while treating people you disagree with with dignity and respect. So many people leave the faith because we are often bad representatives of those very values. I'm not deconstructing or disillusioned with the faith, but your perspective is valuable nonetheless. It's so easy to tune stories out when they challenge our narrative or value system (no matter what our faith background is). I think atheists and Christians alike can value the integrity through which you approach these issues.
So many people leave Christianity because they read the Bible and realize what a monstrous book it is. No one "leaves the faith". You can't leave something that wasn't true to begin with. It was never true, so there was NOTHING to leave.
Whether it's true or not is a separate issue from believing in it, and then no longer believing in it. That's why it's called leaving the faith (in it) that someone once had.
@@littlebitofhope1489no need to be hostile about it. I don't think this person meant to be condescending or hostile when they talked about others leaving the faith. It's a common phrase.
My dad converted over night to Catholicism when I was 11 years old. He claimed to see a light coming from the chalice at my uncles funeral. I went from over night not being allowed to go to church, I even got grounded in 4th grade from going with a friend, to going every single week sometimes twice a week. No one stopped to ask me what I thought or believed. It was a lot and the more I think about it, the more I think how selfish it was for him to make that decision to upend all of our lives so dramatically and quickly. I am an atheist now and a parent and it is 100% the choice of my kids what they believe. I give them comparative religion resources that are age appropriate and someday if they say hey I want to go to church I will take them and support them. Anyway, it was really validating to hear you talk about how making a life-changing decision overnight is a red flag. I haven’t found many people who really understand the impact the decision my dad made.
I've always been an atheist and was raised by atheist parents. When my partner and I had kids I was nervous because I didn't want to push them to see the world like I do. My mom gave me a great piece of advice: "You're not raising kids, you're raising future adults." I realized that she and my dad didn't teach me and my brother to be atheists. They taught us critical thinking skills, literary analysis, history. They gave us tools, but it was up to us how we decided to use them. And that's how I raise my kids.
@@Clippysbookclub atheists tend to not care, as they know people are individuals and not automaton sheep like Christians are. Literally, they are called sheep in the Bible.
@@Clippysbookclub The other person didn’t respond, but personally I would be fine if my kids ended up being Christian as long as they’re happy and treat others with respect. Lots of Christians do that every day.
I’m 15 and Christian. That’s good advice imo because the reason a lot of people leave the church is because of the people who are forcing it rather than them hating the relationship with God himself. And that’s true again for you as an atheist and for any faith really. I was broken at one point, and I had an interaction with god, and that’s what truly made me Christian even though I had grown up in the church. With my future kids, I hope to have them have similar experiences where god helped them so they can truly feel god rather than being forced into it. Thanks for the advice ❤
I am queer as well and Christianity fucked up my self image. I am out to some people but where I put Mr Happy is no one's business 😁. I keep my personal beliefs to myself and still think religion is a bad thing for ones mental health
I love the "can they/you take a joke about their/your beliefs" test of a healthy relationship! Back when I had just deconverted and was still living with my parents, I was making the bread for easter dinner (as had been my responsibility since I started baking) and cheerfully exclaimed "The bread is risen!" My parents' (and my old) church was one where the pastor would go "The Lord is risen!" on easter sunday and the congregation would answer "He is risen indeed!" And...my mom did not answer in kind. Or laugh. Or smile. That really was one of the early signs that this relationship wasn't one that was good for my life.
I am an atheist, my brother is not. In star wars, they say "may the force be with you". Because we were raised Lutheran, we say in response "and also with you". We think it's hilarious
My parents were disappointed more than anything when I left the church. At the time, their perspective was that they were heartbroken because I was rejecting being saved and would "not be with them in heaven". My stance was that I was sorry that was their perspective, but that ultimately it was that perspective built around their belief system that kept them in that state of heartbreak, and that there were many other perspectives to be found if they chose to seek them out. Almost twenty years later now...and in that time they went through their own deconstruction of their faith, and now they have also left the church and are free too ❤❤
That gives me a lot of hope for my family, I’m really glad to hear that eventually worked out like that. But regardless, I really appreciate the point you made about it being their perspective/belief system that is keeping them in a state of heartbreak. I will remind myself that. Thank you ❤😊
My sister started practicing Norse beliefs when she got married and my mom bemoaned to her asking what she did as a mother to run all her kids away from religion. I've never straight up come out as an atheist, and I dont think my brother has, but we both stopped going to church. I don't want to feel the backlash of dealing with that. Though if it comes out and she ever says "I'm just worried you're not going to go to heaven" my retort is going to be "that seems like an issue with your god than me." She has to accept that the god she believes in just throws anyone who doesnt believe the way she's taught into hell.
I got married when I was a very committed Christian and one of the reasons I felt like I could go ahead and marry her was that she was, too. We even asked each other about pro-life and gay marriage stances and when we both agreed, we pursued the relationship and later got married. When I began deconstructing I was afraid of how my wife would react. It turned out she was growing more and more progressive and wasn't sure how to tell me. Today, we are an atheist and agnostic (she doesn't like the word atheist because she feels like she would be claiming she knows there's no god). We don't go to church and we're raising our kids secularly.
For many in your situation I believe that line from the newest Star Wars shows Ahsoka is perfect. When his apprentice asks him if he misses the Jedi Order, the character says “I miss…the idea of it. But not the truth, the weakness” So many former Christians or even just deconstructing Christians I know look back longingly at the idea of what they believed they were taking part in. But when you can finally see it from outside, the realities of the weakness, corruption, and control are glaring.
I find myself missing the trappings. I miss singing hymns and communal singing generally. I miss the "family" atmosphere. I miss "dinner on the grounds." And I do sometimes miss transcendence. I haven't found anything else that provides it.
13:15 "It's not up to me to manage their emotions surrounding [my deconversion]. I should be able to authentic to myself and live life now I want to, and if that's causing issues for them, that's up to them to handle their emotions." 💯!!!👍
When I came out as an atheist to my then husband it triggered yet another episode of physical and verbal abuse. On the positive side I believe this particular instance was a catalyst for me to begin my journey towards escaping him as I had religion/belief.
I have been “in the closet” about not believing as someone who was brought up in a very Christian household. I don’t think it’s something I could ever admit to my mum specifically, as she would 100% believe I am going to hell. After I told her that my partner and I sleep together as I could not lie to her any longer, she had a complete emotional breakdown which was very traumatising to witnesses. Two years later, she still tells me she has sleepless nights and prays for my soul multiple times a day. I honestly feel that living a secular life would destroy her. I envy child-parent relationships where there is complete transparency and understanding. Your videos have helped me feel like I am not completely alone.
I sympathize with this. What caused me to start deconstructing to begin with was a mixture of discovering my sexuality and growing up within two wildly different beliefs in Christianity between my church and my school. I haven't told my parents (especially my mom) about anything because when I first went off to college I was talking about this guy friend I had made (because he was one of my only friends at the time) and my dad later told me he had a nightmare that I had "shacked up" with this friend and my mom physically blocked the door with her body and wouldn't let me in the house. My mom overheard and said "I would do it too!" ....yeah, talk about traumatizing...
You are definitely not alone! My mom knows we don’t go to church currently and asks me when I’m going to get my kids in church. but I don’t think I would ever tell her I don’t fully believe anymore. It would crush her, my brother already came out as atheist years ago and I know it causes her great distress. She tells us she prays for us all the time and starts crying sometimes. It’s very hard because I know what she feels, I used to feel that way thinking people I love we’re going to hell. And it’s even more confusing for me because I don’t know 100% what I believe/don’t believe yet either.
I feel this. I understand what Taylor is saying, that we shouldn't bear the weight of managing others feelings. They are adults after all. But at the same time, I know my mom would be so distraught to the point it would cause mental anguish. I have to weigh the pros and cons, like is it really *that* important for her to know? What would that effectively change? Maybe if I had a RUclips channel, and it wad a big part of my life, but all that's different is I don't go to church. But, at the same time, I do believe that if I lived closer to my family, I would begin to really struggle as conversations do shift to "trusting in god" and super religous. Idk. Maybe one day I'll share my beliefs, but it's complicated as I love my parents so deeply and I understand their belief system and I think I'D have sleepless nights thinking about my MOMS sleepless nights!
I would sit her down and ask if she believes that God is good/love. She will say yes, then ask if it’s possible for a purely good God who is love to do something evil. She will say no, then point out that sending someone to hell forever is evil and anti-love. Which means God wouldn’t (couldn’t, by definition) do that and so she ultimately has nothing to worry about. (If she has unexpected answers to those questions then I’d be a bit stumped… and probably say she should convert to a different church/religion but idk if she would.)
For me going vegan brought me into more uncomfortable situations with acquaintances than atheism because being atheist is a lot easier to not bring up. When you eat differently people ask about it.
I loved the question from the spouse wanting to support their wife in her deconstruction journey. However, keep in mind that deconstruction doesn't mean the same thing as deconversion. Deconstruction can be simply a reorganization of one's beliefs in order to retain those beliefs in the long-run. So don't be disappointed if she fully deconstructs but doesn't end up deconverting.
I'm an atheist from birth, as in, my parents never mentioned religion, so it wasn't in my life at all. And I can not imagine dating someone, who is religious.. Or feels like they're aliens, like their minds work in a completely different way
Ikr! I live in an environment where religion isn't at all important part of everyday life but in times when i do interact with religious people i am so weirded out! Believing something intangible like this is such a foreign concept to me
Same. I never know the correct way to respond to a conversation/comment related to gods/God because I wasn’t socialized in any religious community and grew up entirely without it.
Same. Even though my dad was a JW and my mom was Catholic, they weren't really practicing and then in public school my friends were pagans, atheists, and satanists. My best friend is SUPER religious and one time she called me crying saying that her ex said God would smite her and it was....An interesting conversation since if someone said that to me it wouldn't bother me in the slightest but for her not so much.
My brother and I were sent to Sunday school and Catholic school but we always thought it was silly, for some reason we were just never buying it. We learned about Santa and the tooth fairy etc. at a young age, and I think that it was around the time that we started to understand magic wasn’t real, and therefore understood that concepts like God are actually impossible. Despite spending my life around people who believe in God, I still find it really interesting that anyone can just throw away all critical thinking because that’s what it looks like to an outsider at least to me it does. I even went to school for anthropology when I was 17 because I just wanted to learn about why people can believe in something that makes no sense.
You are both lovely people. I am continually fascinated with your attempts to speak and live with integrity. I wish more people had your courage in our society, which encourages so many people to live behind masks.
As someone who lives in Aotearoa New Zealand, it is often very strange to hear about how much stigma is associated with being Atheist. We definitely have a predominance of Christianity, and certainly I grow up knowing many religious children, but I never felt targeted or stigmatised for being non-Christian/Atheist. Thank you for opening a window into what it is like being Atheist in the US, it has helped me be more empathetic to both Christians/Atheists in the US, and helped me understand the differences in perspective for people in the US. 🙂
I grew up in the US basically without religion. (Grandparents went to church but my parents, aunts, uncles, cousins and friends never did). I never felt stigmatized. It just wasn’t an issue where I grew up. (Detroit, Michigan). I think it depends on the region of the US, perhaps?
It really depends on the region and the set of people you hang out with. I don’t live in the south and I grew up as a nerdy kid, and “science nerd” type people tend to be less religious than the average. I occasionally brushed up against religious circles but for the most part the people I was around didn’t talk about religion when I was in school, even my mom who was actually religious.
When someone says "I'll pray for you" and I know it's come from a place of caring, I just say thank you. They believe it will help somehow and especially when there's nothing they can actually do to help me, I find this a nice gesture. The one I can't deal with is people giving me verses or quotes from their religious text. This brings me no comfort, but knowing you're thinking of me does.
i was NEVER unhappy about my decision to renounce my religion. i am 1M% relieved bc i now understood how much id been lied to by the baptist church. i did it when i turned 58. im 61 now. i identify as an apostate now.
Welcome aboard!! Best regards and handshake through the internet. We should all smile at people or provide condolences when needed, its a great replacement for prayers.
One time, when I was a Christian, I said to someone “I’ll pray for you” when what I meant was “I wish you success in what you are doing”. However, right after that, even though I wasn’t _going_ to pray for them (because what I meant was something different) I went ahead and prayed for them _anyway_ so that I would not have said _falsely_ that I would pray for them.
Ghost is my husbands favorite band, and I really like them a lot. We named our cat Ghost after them lol Love this channel, you both have been really helpful to my husband and I as we go through our religious deconstruction! Thank you for everything you do.
Thank you for this video, i still struggle to avoid going to church for important dates but i know it important for my mom to see me there, I’ve set boundaries when asked to read at mass o participate. I haven’t officially come out to most of my family for fear of being judged or criticized and not having argument to back my decision.
I super relate to the notion of how it would be easier to be a Christian in my professional life. I have a colleague who definitely provides me with great opportunities and I'm appreciative... but there has been some heavy handed attempts to decipher my "relationship with the Lord". He's also taken to sending me Bible verses, some of which have some cringey titles
No worries at all! I’m sure we could’ve answered it better, but we’re also not experts on the subject (although it is a topic that’s interesting to me and many of our friends are poly). So I’m glad you found it useful!
When a parent does that to me, I just say "Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and be proud of it, but when you take it out and wave it in my face, we have a problem". It works every time.
Do we have the same mom? Both my mom and sister tell me that they pray for me all the time, my sister has even called me to ask if I've had dreams or any thoughts about regretting being a Christian. My mom has also told me that if I became a Christian it would help my mental health issues. I was suicidal when I was a Christian, my mental health is vastly improved since becoming an atheist, and that was before I started seeing a therapist for an ADHD diagnosis.
I mean why take accountability when god is OBVIOUSLY punishing you for your wrongdoing - rather than acknowledge and take to heart that god made you as you are meant to be and it is ONLY god's place to judge while it is THEIR job to love and accept you as you are, per jesus's teachings? (note: I'm not religious but grew up with a very religious parent and like to use their mentality against them. what you're describing absolutely makes me livid as I'm reminded of how othering people is a blatant tool of organized religion to weaponize people's beliefs. example: the many ppl out there who believe the aids crisis was undoubtedly "god's divine punishment" on the gays for being queer. like jfc can we please let go of the 1400s protestant notion that being "different" means you're definitely being "punished" by a "higher power"??)
As someone who was a young adult convert (now deconvert) my literally overnight conversion and rapid change in beliefs, values, lifestyle, dress, goals, etc. was a major red flag. I wish I'd realised it at the time.
This video made me realize once again how privileged I am to live in a secular country like Germany. Here, nobody cares about other people's religious beliefs, and we don't really have any of those fundamentalist nut-cases trying to turn this nation into a theocracy. Christian nationalism is not a thing here, and it is explicitly forbidden by law to discriminate against people for their religious beliefs, for instance when applying for a job. Of course, employers must not favour people of one religious group, either. I never had to 'come out' as an atheist, because really nobody even cares. We have a lot of people with all sorts of religious beliefs, but we just get along. One small problem that I see is that Christianity here is having a somewhat higher status (even though we are secular), so this is for instance why all the stores are closed on Sundays. Also, the church is state-funded using tax-payer money. And christian-run facilities (such as hospitals) have their own work laws, which may (and has!!!) result in a doctor at a hospital being fired for being divored and getting remarried, for instance. Even we still have a long way to go, but at least nobody goes full christian nationalism in here.
Sounds worse to me, you have passive-aggressive favoritism, still christian nationalist behavior. Tax money should never go to churches. I'm sure they don't fund jews or muslims
My mom FLIPPED OUT ON ME the first time I told her, and every conversation since then she will slip in that she thinks I'm going to hell, and blaming me for her future heaven experience being sad since I won't be there. If anyone else is going through something similar, I am chalking up my relationship with my mom as irreconcilable and going mostly no-contact. But when I had to go to the town she was in to visit other family, I made a list of all the toxic stuff I thought she would say, expecting to check off a few of them and buy myself a fancy dinner out as a reward for putting up with it. Well... I checked off all of them, some multiple times. So I bought myself a 4-Wheeler. Just thought I'd throw those options out for anyone to take if they want.
I’m so sorry that she had this reaction. It’s truly awful. I’m glad you’re establishing boundaries, and I think it’s a great idea of turning it into a little game for yourself if you can’t avoid contact with her. What’s the most important is protecting your peace!
No one from my last church ever contacted me again after I stopped going. I never “came out”, but I did realize exactly how shallow these relationships really were.
OMG Taylor, we're septum buddies! I have been trying to get to 6 for weeks and i keep chickening out . I wear a pincher and have had absolutely 0 comments on it, I even asked my boss if any of our customers were complaining about my piercings and no one has. Your style is very on point. One day we'll reach 6 gauge!
it’s soooo frustrating living in a small southern conservative town as a vegan athiest. but you guys really give me hope that there’s people out there who share my values. thank you ❤️
Also, I noticed that y'all look at each other the same amount. When Taylor is speaking Drew is looking at her and showing interest. Contrast that with the Duggars or other fundies - it seems to point to a true partnership
I have started deconstructing recently and i just want to say, your channel is so valuable to me. There's not many video's that keep me mentally stimulated enough to watch the entire thing, but i just realized I've been binging your video's and i wasnt subscribed yet! I hit that button so fast. You guys are seriously so amazing. Thank you.
Thanks for answering my piercing question! That was a really interesting discussion haha. I'm 30 and still haven't told my dad that I'm getting a custom arm piece tomorrow, and I don't think he's noticed my new septum piercing yet. I'm just so tired of having that conversation
Oh, that’s so cool! What’s your arm piece going to be? Also, totally get that - it’s so exhausting having these tense convos about something that shouldn’t be a big deal to anyone else in the first place.
@@theantibot T Rex skull and sunflowers! I've been wanting a T Rex skull for a long time, and the sunflowers are representing my mom. She died last year, and they were her favorite flower
You are literally my favourite couple ever! ❤ The way you two communicate and respect each other is beautiful. I wish you all the best. Keep up the good work and as always great video! 🤗
I didnt lose any of my closest friends when I stopped going to church (and about half of them are agnostic now too) but the shunning from and loss of the overall community was very painful and took me moving to a new city to leave behind.
New to your channel and really enjoyed this conversation. I was not surprised by most if not all of your answers to the questions, again could be because you two are new to me; also I can say alot of both of your experiences have been parallel to mine. One thing i can say was very different for me, not losing relationships within the church.
Good Q&A session 😊 As usual, I love the candor and rapport. You missed an opportunity for Drew to wear magnetic jewelry and temporary tattoos. 😅 *_Don't let my appearance on videos fool you._* reveals Creaky Blinder level of ink. 😂
@43:50 this is so true, I actually just saw a job in my area that I was excited to apply for until they basically said "Christians only" on the ad. This wasn't a job at a church or anything either.
I actually cannot come out as bi or atheist to my mother. I’ve started to a couple of times but she’s one of those fundamentalist that would absolutely disown me. One time I was telling her how hard I tried to believe and wanted to believe (I’ve been to EVERY denomination of church even Orthodox and Catholic catechism classes) and she told me I felt guilty because it was a “Holy Spirit conviction telling you being atheist was the wrong decision”. My husband is also bi and is an atheist from an entirely atheist family and my mom will always accuse his family of being evil for the most minute human mistakes. Uh idrk the point of this comment I guess I just needed somewhere likeminded to vent LOL anyway I really love this channel and y’all’s input and insight on these topics
Great conflict resolution advice. If an argument is emotionally tense my partner and I will take turns trying to explain the others feelings and position in a way they fully agree with. We try to make doing so a prerequisite for making any points or counterarguments if we are in a serious disagreement.
41:00 - The Unitarian Universalist Association has the UU Service Committee, designed to mobilize and supply people, including non-UUs in performing acts of service. Whereas it's affiliated with a "church," a lot of UUs don't necessarily agree with the usage of that word.
Also the American Ethical Union has multiple groups, including in Austin. I've actually wondered if they've been to it or not. Their service arm is associated with the American Humanist Association.
im poly. you didn't sound like you were talking down about poly relationships when you said it required even more consideration sometimes for the various moving parts. More people is more complex, not better or worse than less people, just requires a lot of communication and work. This is one of the things that you have to work on learning how to manage in order to support all partners equitably and ethically if practicing poly
I appreciate your thoughts and definitely agree! I just wanted to be extra sure that it didn’t come across like I was saying that more complexity is a problem. Since polyamory isn’t well understood by many, I try to be extra cautious with my language. ☺️
Regarding fighting etc, if you're on medication make sure you remember to take them! Sometimes when my frame of mind is off, I realize I haven't taken my adhd or anxiety/depression meds.
When a person tells me they'll pray for me or "you're in my prayers" I usually interpret it as "I wish you the best" or "I'm thinking of you" or "I'll keep u in my heart" (my grandma says "I'll keep u in my heart and prayers") I usually appreciate it when people say that even if I don't usually believe in their God. I appreciate the feelings behind it because when a person says that to me from a place of sincerity because they care about me (especially in the case of my grandma).
Interesting. As a former Christian, I see the "I'll pray for you" in the same way. I mean, I don't say, "I'll pray for you, too!" back. That would be weird. But I do say "Thank you". Ah, yes. Hunger and mental state. Say no more. I think about going back from time to time, but ultimately the problem is that I really can't believe in the Bible's God. I've done a lot of reading on things like the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field experiment (ohhhmmm) and a lot of other astronomy, physics, psychiatry, etc. I can't go back. But from time to time I think, "Hmmm. If I went to church and believed in God, I'd have a better social life".
At most im like it would be nice to believe a God was there. When times are hard or impossible that a God has you. So sometimes I be like thank you Buddha, Jesus, Allah, whatever you are. Lmao then I'm like bullshit and say it is what it is. But I could never believe life itself you just can't unsee it.
With regards to the Poly discussion, specifically whether to know if it's for you (AND YOUR PARTNER/S) is to GO TALK TO A COUNSELOR BEFORE TRYING IT. Please. You absolutely should have a neutral 3rd party to hear you all out before you go and do anything drastic.
I'm glad you guys posted this I just told my 96 year old grandmother that i wasn't a Christian anymore. I told her what my grandfather and her husband said " i believe in the creative powers of nature" which i used to mean diesm which i think he did as well. But looking back he might of been an athiest.
Really appreciate that recognition about the lack of resources for social good projects outside the religious contexts, especially in certain areas of the country.
As a skeptic myself, I can relate to the thought of going back to church. I think what I miss the most about church is moreso tied to the community factor. However, it qould be very difficult for them to get me to change my mind at this point. Also, I keep in mind that the way I experienced church as a younger, more naive person around my peers there would be a different experience than what Id get now, and it woild be hard to make genuine bonds with people there kknowing I dont believe much of whats being taught. Thank you for the work you two do. Your videos are a continued source of inspiration for me as I navigate my own life journey.
I would suggest looking into the writing of the Septuagint and all the changes they made to the text. The one I find people have the most trouble with is the change of Mary being a maiden to a virgin because the authors of the Septuagint wanted to convert people who believed in other virgin born deities like Amen.
This is totally shaped from my own perspective of family dynamics, and I know it probably took a lot of work, but it sounds like you guys have really good boundaries with your families
I just say to them: Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and be proud of it, but when you take it out and wave it in my face, we have a problem.
for me, vegetarianism was the first choice I made for MYSELF. it was the first time I didn't center Jesus and the first time I did do something not because the Bible told me and I would say that that was an important first step in finding my autonomy, which, among others, resulted in realizing that Christianity isn't for me
Hi Taylor! Thanks to you and Drew for answering these questions and the content you've been making. I'm also someone who is deconstructing from Christianity, and your content has been super useful and informative to me. Congratulations on 52k+ subscribers!
As a thru hiker I use a fork in the trail as an analogy. At the fork a decision must be made. Once your feet decide its path the unchosen can still be seen through the forest. Though difficult, a return the unchosen trail is still possible. As miles pass the unchosen path wanders away and it becomes more obscure through the forest. Then without realization the unchosen path wanders in the distance to never been seen again...even if I wanted I could not reach the trail. It is lost as a choice. PCT 2024
I got a lot of pushback from some of my family when I stopped going to church (which was really interesting since they themselves did not go to church, but believed in it and believed I should as a teen and young person). I never felt that I had to “come out” about being atheist and I never sat down and announced it to my friends. I think I was always so skeptical, even though I tried so hard to make Christianity work for me that no one was surprised. My Christian friends may have been a bit disappointed and probably still pray for my soul 😅, but they were respectful and the only person I lost over it was a guy I was casually seeing.
I had an evangelical family friend arguing with me on Facebook about something, and she said she would pray for me snidely and I wrote back “have fun! 😉”
I would like to add something to the relationship question. Love does not come from a gucci purse or other luxury items. It doesn't come from luxury vacations. Love comes from the little things. For example, the shoe laces on my tennis shoes were literally falling apart. My boyfriend bought me new laces because he knew I probably wasn't going to do it myself. He's fixed belts and necklaces that broke that I really love. He fixes them because he knows I love them. He does my oil changes and helped me pay off my car. THAT is love. In return, I try to take him out for dates once in awhile and I try not to rely on him too heavily financially.
With us older gen x parents of kids your age it is very intentional on our parts to make it ok for our kids to talk about whatever is on their minds. I kinda think that it is perfectly ok to disagree with my children but still respect them as thinking and well educated human beings. I do agree with you Drew, it is not the norm for kids to be able to talk with their parents about serious subjects and not get that parent/child divide. If that isn't as much an issue it is very intentional on the part of the parents. We work at it and as aware (dare I say "woke" parents) as hard as we work on getting healthier every day. I cherish talking to my kids...I think that's a large part of what makes it palatable for my kids to want to talk to me. Food for thought....
I love that your family embraces your dog as your child. I love kids, but I don't think I could bring them into the world knowing how it is becoming more and more difficult to sustain a happy lifestyle (less worker's rights, higher housing prices, worry about climate change, etc.) I wouldn't want to have kids and then have to introduce them to the dog eat dog world. Yes there are lots of wonderful parts of life, but I can't guarantee how many of those my hypothetical child would experience and I obviously can't get their opinion on whether the suffering of life is worth the bright spots before making them. So I plan to just give lots of love to rescue cats. 🥰
I love love talking about your love of Ghost 🙌 So jealous that you’ve gotten to see them in person, I am looking forward to their next tour- my favorite of theirs right now is Griftwood
I didn't realize you're Ghost fans! I got into Ghost because of my son - we went to the show in Phoenix, loved it - my favorites right now are Cirice, Spillways, Rats, and Call Me, Little Sunshine.
Ive been an atheist for about five or six years now, and the only people i ever told was my sister, mom, and partner. I think my mom took care of telling the rest, and i could genuinely see the distress in my grandma's face from thinking i was going to hell, and i felt for her because someone i love going to hell used to be my biggest fear. She started taking every chance she got to evangelize. It was heart breaking to see her so distressed, so to her and her kids, im still a christian, albeit a stray one. the gospel pitch is just always the same and i do want to talk to her about other things lol
I don't think most of my family *knows* I'm an athiest per se, and don't care one way or the other. I would never had wanted grandma to know, though, for the same reason. Bad enough she was aware of my bisexuality! (And that was only because circumstances kind of made that unavoidable.) Just enjoy the time you have with her. ❤
Overcoming biases that have been instilled in you is very difficult and will inevitably be a lifelong work, but talking to people who have lived experience and would like to talk to you about it is the beest way to start. Reading is also good, the poly "bible" is called 'The Ethical Slut'
As a satanist myself I love seeing you both rep satanic accoutrement. I've considered buying the same shirt that Drew is wearing from the TST shop too!
@theantibot I know that Drew doesn't identify as a satanist, but ever since your that satanist girl video (which I have to share with my chapter, thanks for the reminder) I've been curious as to whether or not you are. P.S. it's nice to see poly representation in the skeptic community as a poly person ^_^. Love your content and hail yourself! ~♡
I don’t know if I’d call myself a satanist and I’m not part of any organization, but the symbol of Satan is something that’s important in my life and something that I see as somewhat of a life guide. I’m still figuring out what exactly it all means for me though. I definitely gravitate towards satanic imagery and symbolism in art and music, especially since so much of it aligns with humanism.
I (cis aroace woman) relate VERY much to what Drew says about not thinking about or desiring much to change physical appearance! I do not have an aesthetic and even as I admire the stylish people, I've never wanted to do anything major with my own look. Just nice blouses and pants, or sweatshirts and t-shirts, maybe a dress or skirt once in a while.
Dude, I'm allergic to metal and have mast cell activation syndrome, so I completely understand your inflamatory problem. It would be so cool to have an actual piercing! I've had to switch to clip on and that still irritates me a bit. I wish you the best continuing to work around that in your life, cause it can surely be hard sometimes.
I actually grew up in an very christian AND very vegan family (well, extended family, my parents weren't vegans). Something like ~40% of my extended family is vegan, and my extended family is also really large and was very involved growing up, so even though I'm not vegan myself it seemed like a pretty normal thing to me growing up.
Your answer to the title question makes me wonder how many people are wandering around in christian circles, doing christian things, praying with others, even quoting scripture...and inside, they're having strong doubts or have just completely given up on belief.
my christian mother asked me why i was so distant and i told her it was because shes hurt me and won’t take responsibility for it and she said “any hurt or distance you feel isn’t from me, your therapist is brainwashing you” LOL
Yeesh, case in point
Distancing even further after that lmao
@@EtamirTheDemiDeer But what if it's true? There have been actual cases of that.
@littlebitofhope1489
Then it's always a good idea to ask "Which of my actions hurt you? How can I change my behaviour?". If the conflict is a result of an abusive mental health professional then asking this kind of questions might free a person from their control (or rather start the process). If it's not then you might find the reason why someone feels hurt. It doesn't have to mean their reasoning is right but you'll finally be able to understand them. And who knows. Maybe they'll be ready to listen you back
@@littlebitofhope1489 mom?
It’s wild that we live in a world where we have to “come out” as not believing in a thing, and yet so many feel like they’re persecuted for believing that thing.
Amen
I just had to come out to a friend tonight, who wondered why she couldn’t find me on Facebook. I admitted I’d blocked her because I’m very outspoken about religious extremism (truthfully it’s all religion) and didn’t want to scare her away. I still didn’t use the A word outright though.
@@katelynnehansen8115 I will use the same tactic. That is not using the A-word.
Like when people refer to circumsicion as "cut" or "uncut," instead of "natural" and "sliced."
There is genuine religious persecution of Christians going on in the world, but it seems to me that American Christians, for the most part, are more concerned about themselves - even though they've never experienced anything remotely close to persecution. I find it ridiculous.
If someone says "I'll pray for you" make a donation to an LGBT charity in their name.
I don't have that much money. lol
@@littlebitofhope1489 Yeah, it could get out of hand, but it doesn't need to be a large donation either.
Or tell him to do that instead.
Oh dear, I'd always be broke lmaoooooo.
Is this our way of saying “bless your heart”?
You guys have helped me feel less lonely since I’ve left Christianity. I went to Bible College and served in Leadership in churches for most of my life, and since I’ve left, I feel like an outsider. Thank you so much for making these videos
Thank YOU for watching! I feel less alone as well when I receive comments like this! 💕
You would be surprised how many bible college kids end up atheist. At least at the college I went to there was more than I thought.
@gnomishviking3013 the joke that was popular among my circle of friends was if you want to a person to be an ex catholic, send them to a private catholic school.
@@taoofjester4113I’m an atheist who went to Catholic school!
Love and hugs through the internet. The "outsiderness" is what so-called christian churches very subtly "push". By recognizing we are all individuals seeking our way in this world and it is NOT necessary to use the word fellowship only inside a church...you will find that there are a lot more friends or just friendly people "out there" than can ever be found in those tax free clubhouses, full of judgemental, self righteous hypocrites.
At least that is what I've found.
I married a pagan while I was still a Christian. Before we got married I’d been talking about how I never really believed in the Bible growing up, but I did believe in god. And then one day I started thinking “why do I believe in this god when I don’t believe in the Bible?” Believing in god wasn’t much of an option growing up. My family was so convinced he had done something to me to make me become an atheist. He is still religious, I am not after all these years.
The bible is God in Word. What we think of the bible is exactly what we think of God Himself.
It is a reliable gauge
@@jeffbarrett411 Uh... No.
Magical thinking at play for them. They discard the reasoning presented and rather seek to find narrative in the order of events from you dating someone non-christian.
@@jeffbarrett411 it is not reliable as it holds no truth, and if anything, praises evil doing.
@@politely_godless8595 it holds no truth. Ok can't respond to this comment, right off the bat even to an atheist that is incorrect,
I'm a practicing Christian and I've appreciated the perspective you have shared about your faith journey. I started watching you because of your dialogue and critique of Christian content creators that I also disagree with. I admire that you both pursue justice while treating people you disagree with with dignity and respect. So many people leave the faith because we are often bad representatives of those very values. I'm not deconstructing or disillusioned with the faith, but your perspective is valuable nonetheless. It's so easy to tune stories out when they challenge our narrative or value system (no matter what our faith background is). I think atheists and Christians alike can value the integrity through which you approach these issues.
So many people leave Christianity because they read the Bible and realize what a monstrous book it is. No one "leaves the faith". You can't leave something that wasn't true to begin with. It was never true, so there was NOTHING to leave.
Whether it's true or not is a separate issue from believing in it, and then no longer believing in it. That's why it's called leaving the faith (in it) that someone once had.
@@littlebitofhope1489no need to be hostile about it. I don't think this person meant to be condescending or hostile when they talked about others leaving the faith.
It's a common phrase.
I appreciate this comment so much! Thank you for hearing our perspective and adding in yours as well!
Try to do something about all the child abusers amongst you 'Christians.' At the very least, stop hiding it and protecting the perpetrators.
My dad converted over night to Catholicism when I was 11 years old. He claimed to see a light coming from the chalice at my uncles funeral. I went from over night not being allowed to go to church, I even got grounded in 4th grade from going with a friend, to going every single week sometimes twice a week.
No one stopped to ask me what I thought or believed. It was a lot and the more I think about it, the more I think how selfish it was for him to make that decision to upend all of our lives so dramatically and quickly.
I am an atheist now and a parent and it is 100% the choice of my kids what they believe. I give them comparative religion resources that are age appropriate and someday if they say hey I want to go to church I will take them and support them.
Anyway, it was really validating to hear you talk about how making a life-changing decision overnight is a red flag. I haven’t found many people who really understand the impact the decision my dad made.
That's some serious whiplash. Sounds like there was probably a lot more going on than just the religion stuff. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
I've always been an atheist and was raised by atheist parents. When my partner and I had kids I was nervous because I didn't want to push them to see the world like I do.
My mom gave me a great piece of advice: "You're not raising kids, you're raising future adults."
I realized that she and my dad didn't teach me and my brother to be atheists. They taught us critical thinking skills, literary analysis, history. They gave us tools, but it was up to us how we decided to use them.
And that's how I raise my kids.
What if your kids come out as Christians? Full blown church attendees
I had the same thought. @@Clippysbookclub
@@Clippysbookclub atheists tend to not care, as they know people are individuals and not automaton sheep like Christians are. Literally, they are called sheep in the Bible.
@@Clippysbookclub
The other person didn’t respond, but personally I would be fine if my kids ended up being Christian as long as they’re happy and treat others with respect. Lots of Christians do that every day.
I’m 15 and Christian. That’s good advice imo because the reason a lot of people leave the church is because of the people who are forcing it rather than them hating the relationship with God himself. And that’s true again for you as an atheist and for any faith really. I was broken at one point, and I had an interaction with god, and that’s what truly made me Christian even though I had grown up in the church. With my future kids, I hope to have them have similar experiences where god helped them so they can truly feel god rather than being forced into it. Thanks for the advice ❤
I feel the same way about my bisexuality. I don’t care to come out to family but I won’t deny it if I’m asked
I am queer as well and Christianity fucked up my self image. I am out to some people but where I put Mr Happy is no one's business 😁. I keep my personal beliefs to myself and still think religion is a bad thing for ones mental health
I love the "can they/you take a joke about their/your beliefs" test of a healthy relationship! Back when I had just deconverted and was still living with my parents, I was making the bread for easter dinner (as had been my responsibility since I started baking) and cheerfully exclaimed "The bread is risen!"
My parents' (and my old) church was one where the pastor would go "The Lord is risen!" on easter sunday and the congregation would answer "He is risen indeed!"
And...my mom did not answer in kind. Or laugh. Or smile. That really was one of the early signs that this relationship wasn't one that was good for my life.
I am an atheist, my brother is not. In star wars, they say "may the force be with you". Because we were raised Lutheran, we say in response "and also with you". We think it's hilarious
My parents were disappointed more than anything when I left the church. At the time, their perspective was that they were heartbroken because I was rejecting being saved and would "not be with them in heaven". My stance was that I was sorry that was their perspective, but that ultimately it was that perspective built around their belief system that kept them in that state of heartbreak, and that there were many other perspectives to be found if they chose to seek them out. Almost twenty years later now...and in that time they went through their own deconstruction of their faith, and now they have also left the church and are free too ❤❤
That gives me a lot of hope for my family, I’m really glad to hear that eventually worked out like that. But regardless, I really appreciate the point you made about it being their perspective/belief system that is keeping them in a state of heartbreak. I will remind myself that. Thank you ❤😊
My sister started practicing Norse beliefs when she got married and my mom bemoaned to her asking what she did as a mother to run all her kids away from religion. I've never straight up come out as an atheist, and I dont think my brother has, but we both stopped going to church. I don't want to feel the backlash of dealing with that.
Though if it comes out and she ever says "I'm just worried you're not going to go to heaven" my retort is going to be "that seems like an issue with your god than me." She has to accept that the god she believes in just throws anyone who doesnt believe the way she's taught into hell.
One great response to “I’m pray for you” when you know that they are being snarky: “I’ll sin for you”
Or "thanks, I hope Lucifer grants your wishes"
"Thanks, I'll do a ritual for you." 🤣
I got married when I was a very committed Christian and one of the reasons I felt like I could go ahead and marry her was that she was, too. We even asked each other about pro-life and gay marriage stances and when we both agreed, we pursued the relationship and later got married. When I began deconstructing I was afraid of how my wife would react. It turned out she was growing more and more progressive and wasn't sure how to tell me. Today, we are an atheist and agnostic (she doesn't like the word atheist because she feels like she would be claiming she knows there's no god). We don't go to church and we're raising our kids secularly.
For many in your situation I believe that line from the newest Star Wars shows Ahsoka is perfect. When his apprentice asks him if he misses the Jedi Order, the character says “I miss…the idea of it. But not the truth, the weakness”
So many former Christians or even just deconstructing Christians I know look back longingly at the idea of what they believed they were taking part in. But when you can finally see it from outside, the realities of the weakness, corruption, and control are glaring.
I find myself missing the trappings. I miss singing hymns and communal singing generally. I miss the "family" atmosphere. I miss "dinner on the grounds." And I do sometimes miss transcendence. I haven't found anything else that provides it.
@@katietoole8345wdym by transcendence? I’m not familiar with that (having grown up in the catholic church)
I could not have worded that better myself. For me, deconstruction was a painful process, i feel this message to my very core
13:15 "It's not up to me to manage their emotions surrounding [my deconversion]. I should be able to authentic to myself and live life now I want to, and if that's causing issues for them, that's up to them to handle their emotions." 💯!!!👍
You and Drew have been a breath of life after leaving religion. Congrats on the 50K! Here's to the next 50K!
When I came out as an atheist to my then husband it triggered yet another episode of physical and verbal abuse. On the positive side I believe this particular instance was a catalyst for me to begin my journey towards escaping him as I had religion/belief.
you are so so strong i just wanted to say that
Proud of you. That's a lot to work through.
I have been “in the closet” about not believing as someone who was brought up in a very Christian household. I don’t think it’s something I could ever admit to my mum specifically, as she would 100% believe I am going to hell. After I told her that my partner and I sleep together as I could not lie to her any longer, she had a complete emotional breakdown which was very traumatising to witnesses. Two years later, she still tells me she has sleepless nights and prays for my soul multiple times a day. I honestly feel that living a secular life would destroy her. I envy child-parent relationships where there is complete transparency and understanding. Your videos have helped me feel like I am not completely alone.
I sympathize with this. What caused me to start deconstructing to begin with was a mixture of discovering my sexuality and growing up within two wildly different beliefs in Christianity between my church and my school. I haven't told my parents (especially my mom) about anything because when I first went off to college I was talking about this guy friend I had made (because he was one of my only friends at the time) and my dad later told me he had a nightmare that I had "shacked up" with this friend and my mom physically blocked the door with her body and wouldn't let me in the house. My mom overheard and said "I would do it too!"
....yeah, talk about traumatizing...
You are definitely not alone! My mom knows we don’t go to church currently and asks me when I’m going to get my kids in church. but I don’t think I would ever tell her I don’t fully believe anymore. It would crush her, my brother already came out as atheist years ago and I know it causes her great distress. She tells us she prays for us all the time and starts crying sometimes. It’s very hard because I know what she feels, I used to feel that way thinking people I love we’re going to hell. And it’s even more confusing for me because I don’t know 100% what I believe/don’t believe yet either.
I feel this. I understand what Taylor is saying, that we shouldn't bear the weight of managing others feelings. They are adults after all. But at the same time, I know my mom would be so distraught to the point it would cause mental anguish. I have to weigh the pros and cons, like is it really *that* important for her to know? What would that effectively change? Maybe if I had a RUclips channel, and it wad a big part of my life, but all that's different is I don't go to church.
But, at the same time, I do believe that if I lived closer to my family, I would begin to really struggle as conversations do shift to "trusting in god" and super religous. Idk. Maybe one day I'll share my beliefs, but it's complicated as I love my parents so deeply and I understand their belief system and I think I'D have sleepless nights thinking about my MOMS sleepless nights!
I would sit her down and ask if she believes that God is good/love. She will say yes, then ask if it’s possible for a purely good God who is love to do something evil. She will say no, then point out that sending someone to hell forever is evil and anti-love. Which means God wouldn’t (couldn’t, by definition) do that and so she ultimately has nothing to worry about.
(If she has unexpected answers to those questions then I’d be a bit stumped… and probably say she should convert to a different church/religion but idk if she would.)
For me going vegan brought me into more uncomfortable situations with acquaintances than atheism because being atheist is a lot easier to not bring up. When you eat differently people ask about it.
I m a proud carnivore btw .carnivore diet is the best
I loved the question from the spouse wanting to support their wife in her deconstruction journey. However, keep in mind that deconstruction doesn't mean the same thing as deconversion. Deconstruction can be simply a reorganization of one's beliefs in order to retain those beliefs in the long-run. So don't be disappointed if she fully deconstructs but doesn't end up deconverting.
Taylor’s septum ring makes me SUPER mad because I’ll never look that good with a septum AND IT’S UPSETTING
I'm an atheist from birth, as in, my parents never mentioned religion, so it wasn't in my life at all. And I can not imagine dating someone, who is religious.. Or feels like they're aliens, like their minds work in a completely different way
Ikr! I live in an environment where religion isn't at all important part of everyday life but in times when i do interact with religious people i am so weirded out! Believing something intangible like this is such a foreign concept to me
Same. I never know the correct way to respond to a conversation/comment related to gods/God because I wasn’t socialized in any religious community and grew up entirely without it.
They do work differently, though the degree to which that’s true varies a lot. There are downstream consequences to believing in magic
Same. Even though my dad was a JW and my mom was Catholic, they weren't really practicing and then in public school my friends were pagans, atheists, and satanists. My best friend is SUPER religious and one time she called me crying saying that her ex said God would smite her and it was....An interesting conversation since if someone said that to me it wouldn't bother me in the slightest but for her not so much.
My brother and I were sent to Sunday school and Catholic school but we always thought it was silly, for some reason we were just never buying it. We learned about Santa and the tooth fairy etc. at a young age, and I think that it was around the time that we started to understand magic wasn’t real, and therefore understood that concepts like God are actually impossible. Despite spending my life around people who believe in God, I still find it really interesting that anyone can just throw away all critical thinking because that’s what it looks like to an outsider at least to me it does. I even went to school for anthropology when I was 17 because I just wanted to learn about why people can believe in something that makes no sense.
You are both lovely people. I am continually fascinated with your attempts to speak and live with integrity. I wish more people had your courage in our society, which encourages so many people to live behind masks.
As someone who lives in Aotearoa New Zealand, it is often very strange to hear about how much stigma is associated with being Atheist. We definitely have a predominance of Christianity, and certainly I grow up knowing many religious children, but I never felt targeted or stigmatised for being non-Christian/Atheist.
Thank you for opening a window into what it is like being Atheist in the US, it has helped me be more empathetic to both Christians/Atheists in the US, and helped me understand the differences in perspective for people in the US. 🙂
I grew up in the US basically without religion. (Grandparents went to church but my parents, aunts, uncles, cousins and friends never did). I never felt stigmatized. It just wasn’t an issue where I grew up. (Detroit, Michigan). I think it depends on the region of the US, perhaps?
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me. Atheist living in Texas, a deeply religious state.
It really depends on the region and the set of people you hang out with. I don’t live in the south and I grew up as a nerdy kid, and “science nerd” type people tend to be less religious than the average. I occasionally brushed up against religious circles but for the most part the people I was around didn’t talk about religion when I was in school, even my mom who was actually religious.
When someone says "I'll pray for you" and I know it's come from a place of caring, I just say thank you. They believe it will help somehow and especially when there's nothing they can actually do to help me, I find this a nice gesture.
The one I can't deal with is people giving me verses or quotes from their religious text. This brings me no comfort, but knowing you're thinking of me does.
i was NEVER unhappy about my decision to renounce my religion. i am 1M% relieved bc i now understood how much id been lied to by the baptist church. i did it when i turned 58. im 61 now. i identify as an apostate now.
that’s so cool to hear thank you for sharing 🎉
Welcome aboard!!
Best regards and handshake through the internet. We should all smile at people or provide condolences when needed, its a great replacement for prayers.
Also walked away in my fifties...kind of wish it hadn't taken so long, but glad it happened eventually.
One time, when I was a Christian, I said to someone “I’ll pray for you” when what I meant was “I wish you success in what you are doing”. However, right after that, even though I wasn’t _going_ to pray for them (because what I meant was something different) I went ahead and prayed for them _anyway_ so that I would not have said _falsely_ that I would pray for them.
Ghost is my husbands favorite band, and I really like them a lot. We named our cat Ghost after them lol Love this channel, you both have been really helpful to my husband and I as we go through our religious deconstruction! Thank you for everything you do.
My son turned me on to Ghost, got to see them live in Phoenix back in September. Great band!
"I claim this spot of 5th place in the name of autism spectrum disorder. "- Marvin the Martian
Thank you for this video, i still struggle to avoid going to church for important dates but i know it important for my mom to see me there, I’ve set boundaries when asked to read at mass o participate. I haven’t officially come out to most of my family for fear of being judged or criticized and not having argument to back my decision.
I super relate to the notion of how it would be easier to be a Christian in my professional life. I have a colleague who definitely provides me with great opportunities and I'm appreciative... but there has been some heavy handed attempts to decipher my "relationship with the Lord". He's also taken to sending me Bible verses, some of which have some cringey titles
send him verses on slavery
Send your coworker back videos with George Carlin's comedy on religion - works every time.
ruclips.net/video/2tp0UNcjzl8/видео.html
Thanks for addressing my question about polyamory!! I think I worded it poorly but yall parsed it out really well!
No worries at all! I’m sure we could’ve answered it better, but we’re also not experts on the subject (although it is a topic that’s interesting to me and many of our friends are poly). So I’m glad you found it useful!
My mom jabs me by saying "I'mma pray for you." or she does it about taking away my mental illnesses in an excuse to not wanna accommodate for them.
When a parent does that to me, I just say "Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and be proud of it, but when you take it out and wave it in my face, we have a problem". It works every time.
Do we have the same mom? Both my mom and sister tell me that they pray for me all the time, my sister has even called me to ask if I've had dreams or any thoughts about regretting being a Christian. My mom has also told me that if I became a Christian it would help my mental health issues. I was suicidal when I was a Christian, my mental health is vastly improved since becoming an atheist, and that was before I started seeing a therapist for an ADHD diagnosis.
I mean why take accountability when god is OBVIOUSLY punishing you for your wrongdoing - rather than acknowledge and take to heart that god made you as you are meant to be and it is ONLY god's place to judge while it is THEIR job to love and accept you as you are, per jesus's teachings?
(note: I'm not religious but grew up with a very religious parent and like to use their mentality against them. what you're describing absolutely makes me livid as I'm reminded of how othering people is a blatant tool of organized religion to weaponize people's beliefs. example: the many ppl out there who believe the aids crisis was undoubtedly "god's divine punishment" on the gays for being queer. like jfc can we please let go of the 1400s protestant notion that being "different" means you're definitely being "punished" by a "higher power"??)
As someone who was a young adult convert (now deconvert) my literally overnight conversion and rapid change in beliefs, values, lifestyle, dress, goals, etc. was a major red flag. I wish I'd realised it at the time.
To see Taylor smiling so happy talking about Ghost is so beautiful ❤ Love to see you guys happy
This video made me realize once again how privileged I am to live in a secular country like Germany. Here, nobody cares about other people's religious beliefs, and we don't really have any of those fundamentalist nut-cases trying to turn this nation into a theocracy. Christian nationalism is not a thing here, and it is explicitly forbidden by law to discriminate against people for their religious beliefs, for instance when applying for a job. Of course, employers must not favour people of one religious group, either. I never had to 'come out' as an atheist, because really nobody even cares. We have a lot of people with all sorts of religious beliefs, but we just get along. One small problem that I see is that Christianity here is having a somewhat higher status (even though we are secular), so this is for instance why all the stores are closed on Sundays. Also, the church is state-funded using tax-payer money. And christian-run facilities (such as hospitals) have their own work laws, which may (and has!!!) result in a doctor at a hospital being fired for being divored and getting remarried, for instance.
Even we still have a long way to go, but at least nobody goes full christian nationalism in here.
Sounds worse to me, you have passive-aggressive favoritism, still christian nationalist behavior. Tax money should never go to churches. I'm sure they don't fund jews or muslims
The "church tax" is just the state collecting membership fees for the largest churches as a service; the churches pay the state for that service.
My mom FLIPPED OUT ON ME the first time I told her, and every conversation since then she will slip in that she thinks I'm going to hell, and blaming me for her future heaven experience being sad since I won't be there. If anyone else is going through something similar, I am chalking up my relationship with my mom as irreconcilable and going mostly no-contact. But when I had to go to the town she was in to visit other family, I made a list of all the toxic stuff I thought she would say, expecting to check off a few of them and buy myself a fancy dinner out as a reward for putting up with it. Well... I checked off all of them, some multiple times. So I bought myself a 4-Wheeler. Just thought I'd throw those options out for anyone to take if they want.
I’m so sorry that she had this reaction. It’s truly awful. I’m glad you’re establishing boundaries, and I think it’s a great idea of turning it into a little game for yourself if you can’t avoid contact with her. What’s the most important is protecting your peace!
No one from my last church ever contacted me again after I stopped going. I never “came out”, but I did realize exactly how shallow these relationships really were.
OMG Taylor, we're septum buddies! I have been trying to get to 6 for weeks and i keep chickening out . I wear a pincher and have had absolutely 0 comments on it, I even asked my boss if any of our customers were complaining about my piercings and no one has. Your style is very on point. One day we'll reach 6 gauge!
I’m glad you haven’t had any weird comments! Good luck on getting to 6 - keep me updated and let me know if you have any advice!
it’s soooo frustrating living in a small southern conservative town as a vegan athiest. but you guys really give me hope that there’s people out there who share my values. thank you ❤️
Also, I noticed that y'all look at each other the same amount. When Taylor is speaking Drew is looking at her and showing interest. Contrast that with the Duggars or other fundies - it seems to point to a true partnership
I have started deconstructing recently and i just want to say, your channel is so valuable to me. There's not many video's that keep me mentally stimulated enough to watch the entire thing, but i just realized I've been binging your video's and i wasnt subscribed yet! I hit that button so fast. You guys are seriously so amazing. Thank you.
Thanks for answering my piercing question! That was a really interesting discussion haha. I'm 30 and still haven't told my dad that I'm getting a custom arm piece tomorrow, and I don't think he's noticed my new septum piercing yet. I'm just so tired of having that conversation
Oh, that’s so cool! What’s your arm piece going to be? Also, totally get that - it’s so exhausting having these tense convos about something that shouldn’t be a big deal to anyone else in the first place.
@@theantibot T Rex skull and sunflowers! I've been wanting a T Rex skull for a long time, and the sunflowers are representing my mom. She died last year, and they were her favorite flower
I’m sorry to hear about your mom’s passing. The tattoo sounds amazing and I’m sure she’d love it! Love the t-Rex and sunflowers!
Whoop whoop to being childfree! I love it. Husband loves it..our dog is our baby.
Congrats on 50k! 🎉🎉🎉
Thank you so much! 💕
You are literally my favourite couple ever! ❤ The way you two communicate and respect each other is beautiful. I wish you all the best. Keep up the good work and as always great video! 🤗
I didnt lose any of my closest friends when I stopped going to church (and about half of them are agnostic now too) but the shunning from and loss of the overall community was very painful and took me moving to a new city to leave behind.
I appreciate your honesty and open hearted talks
New to your channel and really enjoyed this conversation.
I was not surprised by most if not all of your answers to the questions, again could be because you two are new to me; also I can say alot of both of your experiences have been parallel to mine.
One thing i can say was very different for me, not losing relationships within the church.
Good Q&A session 😊
As usual, I love the candor and rapport.
You missed an opportunity for Drew to wear magnetic jewelry and temporary tattoos. 😅
*_Don't let my appearance on videos fool you._* reveals Creaky Blinder level of ink. 😂
@43:50 this is so true, I actually just saw a job in my area that I was excited to apply for until they basically said "Christians only" on the ad. This wasn't a job at a church or anything either.
The nose ring story is so funny. I love how much you’re smiling while Drew is telling it. “I didn’t realize she was goth!” 😂😂
I actually cannot come out as bi or atheist to my mother. I’ve started to a couple of times but she’s one of those fundamentalist that would absolutely disown me. One time I was telling her how hard I tried to believe and wanted to believe (I’ve been to EVERY denomination of church even Orthodox and Catholic catechism classes) and she told me I felt guilty because it was a “Holy Spirit conviction telling you being atheist was the wrong decision”. My husband is also bi and is an atheist from an entirely atheist family and my mom will always accuse his family of being evil for the most minute human mistakes. Uh idrk the point of this comment I guess I just needed somewhere likeminded to vent LOL anyway I really love this channel and y’all’s input and insight on these topics
Great conflict resolution advice. If an argument is emotionally tense my partner and I will take turns trying to explain the others feelings and position in a way they fully agree with. We try to make doing so a prerequisite for making any points or counterarguments if we are in a serious disagreement.
41:00 - The Unitarian Universalist Association has the UU Service Committee, designed to mobilize and supply people, including non-UUs in performing acts of service. Whereas it's affiliated with a "church," a lot of UUs don't necessarily agree with the usage of that word.
And many UUs are atheists.
Also the American Ethical Union has multiple groups, including in Austin. I've actually wondered if they've been to it or not. Their service arm is associated with the American Humanist Association.
im poly. you didn't sound like you were talking down about poly relationships when you said it required even more consideration sometimes for the various moving parts. More people is more complex, not better or worse than less people, just requires a lot of communication and work. This is one of the things that you have to work on learning how to manage in order to support all partners equitably and ethically if practicing poly
I appreciate your thoughts and definitely agree! I just wanted to be extra sure that it didn’t come across like I was saying that more complexity is a problem. Since polyamory isn’t well understood by many, I try to be extra cautious with my language. ☺️
Stay strong, your a young couple and as long as your honest with one another you can work things out.
Regarding fighting etc, if you're on medication make sure you remember to take them! Sometimes when my frame of mind is off, I realize I haven't taken my adhd or anxiety/depression meds.
When a person tells me they'll pray for me or "you're in my prayers" I usually interpret it as "I wish you the best" or "I'm thinking of you" or "I'll keep u in my heart" (my grandma says "I'll keep u in my heart and prayers") I usually appreciate it when people say that even if I don't usually believe in their God. I appreciate the feelings behind it because when a person says that to me from a place of sincerity because they care about me (especially in the case of my grandma).
Interesting. As a former Christian, I see the "I'll pray for you" in the same way. I mean, I don't say, "I'll pray for you, too!" back. That would be weird. But I do say "Thank you".
Ah, yes. Hunger and mental state. Say no more.
I think about going back from time to time, but ultimately the problem is that I really can't believe in the Bible's God. I've done a lot of reading on things like the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field experiment (ohhhmmm) and a lot of other astronomy, physics, psychiatry, etc. I can't go back. But from time to time I think, "Hmmm. If I went to church and believed in God, I'd have a better social life".
Too many times it seems like the southern "bless your heart" to me. It annoys me.
At most im like it would be nice to believe a God was there. When times are hard or impossible that a God has you. So sometimes I be like thank you Buddha, Jesus, Allah, whatever you are. Lmao then I'm like bullshit and say it is what it is. But I could never believe life itself you just can't unsee it.
@littlebitofhope1489 yes cuz they be throwing shots lowkey😂😂😂
With regards to the Poly discussion, specifically whether to know if it's for you (AND YOUR PARTNER/S) is to GO TALK TO A COUNSELOR BEFORE TRYING IT. Please. You absolutely should have a neutral 3rd party to hear you all out before you go and do anything drastic.
I agree that seeking out counselors with a background and education in polyamory is super helpful!
you guys seems quite wise, helping me navigate through the christian craziness, would love to have gone to your church...
I'm glad you guys posted this I just told my 96 year old grandmother that i wasn't a Christian anymore. I told her what my grandfather and her husband said " i believe in the creative powers of nature" which i used to mean diesm which i think he did as well. But looking back he might of been an athiest.
Really appreciate that recognition about the lack of resources for social good projects outside the religious contexts, especially in certain areas of the country.
Just wanted to comment that I think your septum ring is super cool
As a skeptic myself, I can relate to the thought of going back to church. I think what I miss the most about church is moreso tied to the community factor. However, it qould be very difficult for them to get me to change my mind at this point. Also, I keep in mind that the way I experienced church as a younger, more naive person around my peers there would be a different experience than what Id get now, and it woild be hard to make genuine bonds with people there kknowing I dont believe much of whats being taught.
Thank you for the work you two do. Your videos are a continued source of inspiration for me as I navigate my own life journey.
I would suggest looking into the writing of the Septuagint and all the changes they made to the text. The one I find people have the most trouble with is the change of Mary being a maiden to a virgin because the authors of the Septuagint wanted to convert people who believed in other virgin born deities like Amen.
Great video, guys! Congratulations on 50,000 subs, Taylor! Now on to 100,000! ❤
Public libraries can be an excellent first point of contact for resources for atheists or people of any faith.
This is totally shaped from my own perspective of family dynamics, and I know it probably took a lot of work, but it sounds like you guys have really good boundaries with your families
Always a pleasure listening to you guys❤❤
My parents don't know about my hard agnosticism. They would NEVER stop preaching at me and trying to reconvert me.
I just say to them: Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and be proud of it, but when you take it out and wave it in my face, we have a problem.
for me, vegetarianism was the first choice I made for MYSELF. it was the first time I didn't center Jesus and the first time I did do something not because the Bible told me and I would say that that was an important first step in finding my autonomy, which, among others, resulted in realizing that Christianity isn't for me
Hi Taylor! Thanks to you and Drew for answering these questions and the content you've been making. I'm also someone who is deconstructing from Christianity, and your content has been super useful and informative to me. Congratulations on 52k+ subscribers!
As a thru hiker I use a fork in the trail as an analogy. At the fork a decision must be made. Once your feet decide its path the unchosen can still be seen through the forest. Though difficult, a return the unchosen trail is still possible. As miles pass the unchosen path wanders away and it becomes more obscure through the forest. Then without realization the unchosen path wanders in the distance to never been seen again...even if I wanted I could not reach the trail. It is lost as a choice.
PCT 2024
I got a lot of pushback from some of my family when I stopped going to church (which was really interesting since they themselves did not go to church, but believed in it and believed I should as a teen and young person). I never felt that I had to “come out” about being atheist and I never sat down and announced it to my friends. I think I was always so skeptical, even though I tried so hard to make Christianity work for me that no one was surprised. My Christian friends may have been a bit disappointed and probably still pray for my soul 😅, but they were respectful and the only person I lost over it was a guy I was casually seeing.
I have to admit, I do notice your septum ring a lot, because it looks super cool and really suits you well!
The most vile, abusive, and genuinely evil people I have ever met were all churchgoing Christians.
That's my lived
experience. Take it or leave it.
What other kind of experience is there?
I had an evangelical family friend arguing with me on Facebook about something, and she said she would pray for me snidely and I wrote back “have fun! 😉”
I would like to add something to the relationship question. Love does not come from a gucci purse or other luxury items. It doesn't come from luxury vacations. Love comes from the little things. For example, the shoe laces on my tennis shoes were literally falling apart. My boyfriend bought me new laces because he knew I probably wasn't going to do it myself. He's fixed belts and necklaces that broke that I really love. He fixes them because he knows I love them. He does my oil changes and helped me pay off my car. THAT is love. In return, I try to take him out for dates once in awhile and I try not to rely on him too heavily financially.
With us older gen x parents of kids your age it is very intentional on our parts to make it ok for our kids to talk about whatever is on their minds. I kinda think that it is perfectly ok to disagree with my children but still respect them as thinking and well educated human beings. I do agree with you Drew, it is not the norm for kids to be able to talk with their parents about serious subjects and not get that parent/child divide. If that isn't as much an issue it is very intentional on the part of the parents. We work at it and as aware (dare I say "woke" parents) as hard as we work on getting healthier every day. I cherish talking to my kids...I think that's a large part of what makes it palatable for my kids to want to talk to me. Food for thought....
I love that your family embraces your dog as your child. I love kids, but I don't think I could bring them into the world knowing how it is becoming more and more difficult to sustain a happy lifestyle (less worker's rights, higher housing prices, worry about climate change, etc.) I wouldn't want to have kids and then have to introduce them to the dog eat dog world. Yes there are lots of wonderful parts of life, but I can't guarantee how many of those my hypothetical child would experience and I obviously can't get their opinion on whether the suffering of life is worth the bright spots before making them. So I plan to just give lots of love to rescue cats. 🥰
Puggles’ special appearance in the end is 😭💜
I love love talking about your love of Ghost 🙌 So jealous that you’ve gotten to see them in person, I am looking forward to their next tour- my favorite of theirs right now is Griftwood
I love both your channels so much. Thank you for your intelligent and empathetic commentary.
I didn't realize you're Ghost fans! I got into Ghost because of my son - we went to the show in Phoenix, loved it - my favorites right now are Cirice, Spillways, Rats, and Call Me, Little Sunshine.
Ive been an atheist for about five or six years now, and the only people i ever told was my sister, mom, and partner. I think my mom took care of telling the rest, and i could genuinely see the distress in my grandma's face from thinking i was going to hell, and i felt for her because someone i love going to hell used to be my biggest fear. She started taking every chance she got to evangelize. It was heart breaking to see her so distressed, so to her and her kids, im still a christian, albeit a stray one. the gospel pitch is just always the same and i do want to talk to her about other things lol
I don't think most of my family *knows* I'm an athiest per se, and don't care one way or the other. I would never had wanted grandma to know, though, for the same reason. Bad enough she was aware of my bisexuality! (And that was only because circumstances kind of made that unavoidable.)
Just enjoy the time you have with her. ❤
This was great fun, thank-you both.
"I'm praying for you 😠"
"Me too"
grats on 50 K, best of luck
Overcoming biases that have been instilled in you is very difficult and will inevitably be a lifelong work, but talking to people who have lived experience and would like to talk to you about it is the beest way to start. Reading is also good, the poly "bible" is called 'The Ethical Slut'
Excellent Q&A! I loved it all. Look forward to more.
Your parents are cool for recognizing Puggles as one of their grandkids😊
As a satanist myself I love seeing you both rep satanic accoutrement. I've considered buying the same shirt that Drew is wearing from the TST shop too!
He wears that shirt all the time!
@theantibot I know that Drew doesn't identify as a satanist, but ever since your that satanist girl video (which I have to share with my chapter, thanks for the reminder) I've been curious as to whether or not you are.
P.S. it's nice to see poly representation in the skeptic community as a poly person ^_^. Love your content and hail yourself! ~♡
I don’t know if I’d call myself a satanist and I’m not part of any organization, but the symbol of Satan is something that’s important in my life and something that I see as somewhat of a life guide. I’m still figuring out what exactly it all means for me though. I definitely gravitate towards satanic imagery and symbolism in art and music, especially since so much of it aligns with humanism.
@@theantibotWhat exactly is Satanism? Is it like you worship Satan or what? I thought Athiest didn’t believe in Satan?
Loved watching this! Thanks guys
I (cis aroace woman) relate VERY much to what Drew says about not thinking about or desiring much to change physical appearance! I do not have an aesthetic and even as I admire the stylish people, I've never wanted to do anything major with my own look. Just nice blouses and pants, or sweatshirts and t-shirts, maybe a dress or skirt once in a while.
Dude, I'm allergic to metal and have mast cell activation syndrome, so I completely understand your inflamatory problem. It would be so cool to have an actual piercing! I've had to switch to clip on and that still irritates me a bit. I wish you the best continuing to work around that in your life, cause it can surely be hard sometimes.
Thank you so much for the way you talk about polyamory ❤ it helps a lot to diffuse the stigma that we deal with
I actually grew up in an very christian AND very vegan family (well, extended family, my parents weren't vegans). Something like ~40% of my extended family is vegan, and my extended family is also really large and was very involved growing up, so even though I'm not vegan myself it seemed like a pretty normal thing to me growing up.
Your answer to the title question makes me wonder how many people are wandering around in christian circles, doing christian things, praying with others, even quoting scripture...and inside, they're having strong doubts or have just completely given up on belief.