It's crazy that this has become one of my most popular videos. As others have said, I went a little far saying NEVER use lerni for individual facts but you should still make sure to use ekscii whenever you really mean "found out about." For a better introductory video about Esperanto, check out this one: ruclips.net/video/rDuFVm752CA/видео.html
I guess Im randomly asking but does someone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the login password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me.
@Oliver Davis i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im in the hacking process atm. Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
Simple rule: If you *could* say "found out" in English, *don't* say "lerni" in Esperanto. Personally, I tend to use "eltrovi" but it's a matter of taste.
While I agree with Lee Miller that you wouldn't use "lerni" to say that you found out about an event, I think you're kind of overstating the case here. Of course you can say things like "mi devas lerni, ke mi estas nulo" or "Mi lernis, ke 'jes' en la Korea estas 'ne'." - lerni - to learn - ekscii - to find out
Mi loĝas en Rusio, kaj en la rusa lingvo tiu problemo ne estas. Sed pro tio, ke mi lernas ankaŭ la anglan, mi ŝatis ekscii la informon pri la anglan, dankon!)
Thanks for the useful, informative, and charming video, Alex. Allow me to add one more to the group of words used for talking about information. 'Eltrovi' means to find out. It's often interchangeable with 'ekscii', but it may give a hint at the speaker being surprised/discovering something, or having looked for the information that they eventually found.
Esperantists: Come learn Esperanto! It's easy to understand and pronounce! Also Esperantists: We have weird consonant clusters, three 'i's in a row, and even when you can write books in the language you'll struggle to pick the right words for basic concepts. I think your video title is correct.
Both are true. Esperantists: Come learn Esperanto! It's easy to understand and pronounce! (Yes, even if you had never seen ekscii before, you would immediately understand its meaning and how to pronounce it, even if pronouncing it correctly takes a little practice.) Also Esperantists: We have weird consonant clusters, three 'i's in a row, and even when you can write books in the language you'll struggle to pick the right words for basic concepts. (It does contain elements that English speakers would consider weird. In English, people erroneously use expressions like "irregardless" or "it begs the question" and people still understand what they mean. I could have used lerni incorrectly and gotten by, but I have higher standards than that. Let's not pretend the existence of a more precise word is an Esperanto-specific phenomenon making it just as difficult to learn then as English.)
You imply that a language having weird or difficult quirks means you shouldn't learn it. Do you want me to apply that logic to other languages, or do you think your logic might be a bit flawed?
Oh boy, you should try learning literally any other language. Esperanto is not perfectly simple, but compared with any other language I know it is a walk in the park. It took me two weeks to get Esperanto to a level higher than Irish after four years.
@@EdouardTavinor I have; I speak fluent Spanish, good Italian and French, and can more or less get by in some others. And while those took time and are undoubtedly harder than Esperanto, I just enjoy spending time in them much more
In Danish we use the same word for "lerni", "ekscii" and "instrui" : "lære" where English has two. but we have two words for "know": "kende" (eo: koni) = is familiar with, and "vide" (eo: scii) = know a fact, where English has only one. Being aware that this one word = two (or more) word in the other language, occurs in both direction between, I dare say, any two languages, I often use Google Translate to check whether a word can have more than one translations, and if so I go deeper into each word to learn the proper usage.
In 19th century grammar, (or for that matter 1970s grammar,) your original sentence in English would have been improper as well. Not unintelligible, but considered colloquial speech. It passes modern English grammar check scrutiny only because there are far more untrained English speakers than trained, so through use, the previously improper use has become an accepted definition. Yet another reason English is somewhat difficult to learn. Where one had such classical grammar education in the 19th century, one would consider such colloquial use "classless." Now, we're not as judgemental. Mojosa video, sinjoro.
This is pretty easy for me as a native Portuguese speaker to understand. It sounds weird to me that in English you can use "learn" in sentences like "I learned that he had left". Because we only use "learn" as a result of studying. Like something that you acquire to your knowledge. Examples of correct use of "lerni": Mi lernas Esperanton. Mi lernis tri vortojn hieraux. Mi lernis, ke la uzado de "lerni" ne cxiam facilas. Mi lernas pri la Esperanta movado. Incorrect use of "lerni": Mi lernis pri sxia opinio (That would imply that you really sat on a chair and started studying about her opinion) Mi lernis, ke li mortis. (You could learn about the death of a historical figure, but otherwise, no) Mi lernis la kanton. (Maybe you could learn how to play a song, but for memorizing sentences, we don't usually use it) But I'm saying that based on how the verb is used in Portuguese.
I was clickbaited. And actually I want to note, the verb «to learn» in English confuses me to this day, because in my native language we have 2 separate words as well.
I think the English concept of continuous forms is similar. Some verbs do not have a continuous (like 'can' or 'be' in the sense of esti) but others do (like 'be' in the sense of behave). It seems to me that ekscii is in the first group (there is no gradual transition between not ekscii and ekscii) but lerni represents something with a gradual transition.
I think this problem happens only to native English speakers. In most other languages the definition of the verb "to learn" is the same like in Esperanto.
Thanks very much for your video. One question: Can/should "ekscii" ever be used in the present tense, in the sense of "I'm suddenly aware of this fact"? Also, what might "eklerni" mean? Assuming it is a word. I've begun learning? Or possibly I'm suddenly learning? Edit: I guess that was more than one question! Mi pardonpetas!
It's things like this that add unnecessary ambiguity to a language that is presented as not having issues that natural languages do. Esperanto is easier in a lot of ways, but then you get to things like this & you're reminded that that's not totally true. Another example would be "verki". It doesn't mean "work" as you may assume if you speak English. It means "to write" (a book). "Mi verkas libro" would be "I am writing a book". the verb for "to write" in general is "skribi". "To work" is "labori". It makes it more difficult to translate accurately if you don't the difference. Latin has the same problem (although Esperanto isn't _as_ bad.) The Latin phrase "Fiat iustitia et pereat mundus" is an example. "Fiat iustitia" means "let justice be done", but "et pereat mundus" is a little ambiguous. It's not clear whether it means "and the world perish" or "and let the world perish". That's sort of the problem with "lerni/ekscii" & "verki/labori". That's not to mention things like "plaĝo" & "strando" both meaning "beach". There's no difference, just from different languages.
Dankon Alex. This will be worth listening to again and it just made you gain a new follower. Mi ŝatas pli studi ol lerni. That is because my mind set is more theoretical than practical. Fakte mi ŝatas observi kaj kompari kaj mi bezonas studi kaj lerni. So I tremendously enjoyed your nuancing of words and I am looking forward to listening to your other posts. Studying a subject may carry the notion of obligation as studying in school but it also is deeply rooted in science because it is observing a subject, trying to deduct patterns and rules, experiment with it . Experiencing a language is a notion I like very much. No amount of studying nor learning is required: just hearing or reading suffices in the first passive steps opening the door to the active ones, speaking and writing. I don’t want to study or learn languages I need to do so in order to acquire them. So far I suck at acquiring languages, having truly acquired only two, and am more successful at acquiring methods, books, dictionaries, apps, ressources, etc... How much is using methods and getting good at using methods is actually studying and learning a language? Intrinsically a method will only bring you so far as it can just like a beautiful girl can only offer you what she has. In French we say «Même la plus belle fille du monde ne peut offrir que ce qu’elle a.» Thanks for your presence and the generosity of your involvement on the Esperanto scene. So have a good day, a good year and be blessed and a blessing to others. 🙏 .
This is my first video of yours that I watched. Damn that word Ekscii is damn tough to say. It's the hardest word that I've ever encountered to pronounce. I'll think of ecstasy Anyway, I subscribed.
Bonege - dankon! Ĉe Duolingo estas frazo: "Hodiaŭ ni lernas kvar vortojn de Esperanto". Do, laŭ la video, tiu frazo vere devus esti: "Hodiaŭ ni ekscias kvar vortojn de Esperanto"?
I think that phrase could be fine the way it is. Think of it this way: could you replace the word "learn" with "study" here? If so, "lerni" is fine. In my spelling/vocab classes growing up, we would have say a dozen vocab words to learn each week where we had to learn their spellings, etymologies, and meanings in order to pass the quiz and fully understand them. We wrote them over and over again, came up with sentences that included them, and did true or false and matching activities to distinguish them from one another. You would not apply such effort to simply finding out that Grandma is coming over for dinner or that "efficacy" is a word in the English language. If we're only learning four Esperanto words in one day, I would hope that we're learning them thoroughly.
@Exploring Esperanto Thank you for your extensive answer, Alex! You really are exceptionally apt in teaching! Fonto de scio 😄 So - being a non-native English speaker - I will think of ekscii more like 'discover' as opposed to 'doing the effort of taking into your knowledge base" ;)
@@lvoldum Thanks. Discover is pretty close. Think about this too. Ekpluvas means it is just now starting to rain. How long can it be raining before you have to switch to saying pluvas? Similarly, you can only ekscii something at first. For that reason, I doubt the teacher just mentioned 4 Esperanto words in passing but rather taught them thoroughly making lerni more appropriate.
Mi ĵus kontrolis la 'Dictionary'/vortaron de Duolingo, kaj tiu frazo ne plu ekzistas en la versio de la kurso, kiun mi vidas/studas. Ŝajne ili forigis tiun frazon el la kurso. Mi konjektas ke la gvidantoj de Duolingo por Esperanto 'eksciis' aŭ 'eltrovis' ke tiu uzo ne helpis la lernantojn efike lerni Esperanton.
But you can learn (lerni) that you shouldn’t use lerni to mean find out. That’s learning so lerni can be used :) Both things mean something different. Obvioualy you cannot learn (lerni) that someone died, but you can learn (lerni) that you shouldn’t insult people as you can get beaten ;) So “lerni ke” is not necessarily always wrong.
As you point out, Mateusz, special situations exist. But I just searched La Tekstaro, the largest Esperanto text corpus, and not a single writer in the collection used 'lernas ke' (or 'lern' with any other verb form) before the year 2001, when it appeared in 'La Ondo De Esperanto'. So although it is possible, as you say, it is very rare in written texts.
We don't need a synonym for "study" as much as we need a comfortable word for information acquisition so I might neglect to learn this lesson and hope that language evolution tends in the same direction.
Yes. It would be like paying for a billboard that said "Esperanto!" near the highway. Many people will read that sign; nobody is going to study it. In fact, that's where I'd use a verb like "ekkonscii." If you sat them down for a lecture on the history of Esperanto, they might actually "lerni" about it.
In hindsight after making this video, I'm inclined to agree. Hopefully people walk away from this video not using lerni when they ought to be using ekscii. It's funny how this video became so popular when other lessons I've made (such as "All That in Esperanto" where I discuss tio vs. tiu vs. ke) have information that is so much more useful.
Here's how I think of it. Super Mario Bros. for the NES is a great game and anybody can pick up a controller and play the first level with relative ease. If you google "world record mario speedrun," you can find people finishing that game in under 5 minutes. I could see someone commenting on those videos saying, "Is this game even fun if you have to race through it so quickly and stress out about shaving off fractions of a second?" The game is absolutely still fun to just play casually and can be enjoyed without mastering all the hidden shortcuts, but there is added enjoyment for those who want to dig deeper. Similarly, you can absolutely make friends at Esperanto conventions for years and communicate well without knowing the slight differences between the verbs I mention here. I know because I have done so.
Hi. Using the verb «learn» correctly is not a complexity. I mean: in other languages it is not like in English. In this video he is talking about an error some English speakers do because they are just copying-tracing the words of their language. "To acquire the ability of a new skil by assimilating it with one's own experience" is not like "Receive information". So, for those who do not speak English it is funny see the same verb is used for such different concepts. It is also funny that in English the same verb is used for "what a child does with his toys", "what a musician with his instruments", and "what an actor do when he pretends", for example.
It can seem like there are many complexities in Alex's excellent videos, because he tries to accurately explain the meanings of words. But this is not something unique to Esperanto. In every language, almost every word can be applied to some range of meanings, and then there are harder or softer limits, and beyond the limits, you have to use a different word. If you could use the word 'cat' for a 'dog', then neither word has much value for communication. These words are useful to us, because they make a firm distinction between two things that we often want to distinguish. Of course, you can use the word 'animal' for either one, and that is useful when we want a general word. Alex gives us a good overview of the meanings and limits of different words in Esperanto, and tells us which are more general and which are more specific.
@@mapahastaelpasadizomhep4655 Isn't acquiring the ability of a new skill by assimilating it with one's own experience already incorporate the process of receiving new information? To an english speaker like me, this is a distinction without a difference.
That's one of the loveliest compliments I've gotten in a while. Thank you. Tiu estas unu el la plej afablaj komplimentoj, kiujn mi ricevis dum longa tempo. Dankon.
That entirely depends on which people you talk to. I try not to exaggerate how easy it is, but it still is drastically easier to learn than any other widely spoken language. You can also make little mistakes in Esperanto and still be understood for the most part, so not knowing the subtle differences between lerni and ekscii would not keep someone from enjoying the use of this language.
Mi statkonas, ke vi lingve tre sagacas. Oni povus verki tutan libron pri kie kaj kie anglezano povus misi en Esperanto. Kulpas la angla, ĉar ĝi havas tiom da strangaj idiomaĵoj. Sed ĉio ĉi ne gravas por mi: Mi neniam lernos Esperanton.
Clickbait title, good video. Does anyone know how to get in contact with other samideanoj? I moved to Germany some time ago, and I thought it would be easier to find other Esperantists here... But no.
Also the phone app Amikumu could be a good resource. It will help you locate and communicate with other Esperantist users of the app who are near you. It supports languages besides Esperanto, but Esperanto was its first language.
@@laislyra5512 That sounds like it would be frustrating. But perhaps some of the people near your city will know some people in your city. It's ultimately about networking, and any networking method might help.
@@murphy4907 as in: 6 weeks with 25 hours of class per week. but for ordinary people there's no need to rush it like that. Take a week of class, or two, or three...then take a few months to digest and absorb what you learned
Esperanto is a joke, and shouldn't be taken seriously (an Esperanto speaker here). It's very much a cult-like quasi-religious movement which, realizing its ideological foundations were based on a simplistic false premise that the world's conflicts could be boiled down simply to the ''lack of linguistic unity'', is now having an identity crisis regarding its aims and functions as an international movement. Nevertheless, it makes a good hobby and is a nice travel tool to get to know interesting people and have fun, otherwise it belongs to a history museum.
Do you really mean Finvenkismo is a joke (the idea that Esperanto is actually going to become a major secondary language across the world and unite the world in peace and harmony)? That might be more accurate. Esperanto itself is merely a tool that legitimately and currently helps people connect with each other and learn new things. Calling it a joke is like calling Scrabble a joke. Some people do it just for fun, others to connect with people, others to learn new languages, but it definitely exists as a functioning tool regardless. Not sure what about that would make it a joke.
@@lashachakhunashvili1399 no, it sounds like you think that the part you have been in contact with is somehow representative of the hundreds of thousands that you have not been in contact with. Most of us are fully aware that having a language in common is not enough to prevent war
It's crazy that this has become one of my most popular videos. As others have said, I went a little far saying NEVER use lerni for individual facts but you should still make sure to use ekscii whenever you really mean "found out about."
For a better introductory video about Esperanto, check out this one: ruclips.net/video/rDuFVm752CA/видео.html
you are one of those who think that English is the best language
I guess Im randomly asking but does someone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account..?
I was dumb forgot the login password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me.
@Clay Stefan instablaster :)
@Oliver Davis i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im in the hacking process atm.
Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Oliver Davis It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thanks so much, you saved my ass !
I got clickbaited but I don't regret it.
Sama
Damn he straight clickbaited me lmao
Me too. I'm embarassed of that. 😔😔😔
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Simple rule: If you *could* say "found out" in English, *don't* say "lerni" in Esperanto. Personally, I tend to use "eltrovi" but it's a matter of taste.
While I agree with Lee Miller that you wouldn't use "lerni" to say that you found out about an event, I think you're kind of overstating the case here. Of course you can say things like "mi devas lerni, ke mi estas nulo" or "Mi lernis, ke 'jes' en la Korea estas 'ne'."
- lerni - to learn
- ekscii - to find out
It's so easy when you already speak Portuguese
É? Então acho que vou tentar
Any latin based languages.
For sure!
Yo hablo español, y quiero aprender portugués de Brasil, deberíamos ser amigos.
😁
É sim!
For "parker[e]", if you know French, you can think of "par coeur" ("by heart"). (And note the similarity between "coeur" and "kor[o]".)
Very true!
Is this in any way related to parkour?
@Philippe Lemaire Esperanto was born when French was international language, not English.
@@jeffthevomitguy1178 You better know the parkour course *by heart* or else you’ll have problems. lol
Why not perkorigi?
Mi loĝas en Rusio, kaj en la rusa lingvo tiu problemo ne estas. Sed pro tio, ke mi lernas ankaŭ la anglan, mi ŝatis ekscii la informon pri la anglan, dankon!)
Thanks for the useful, informative, and charming video, Alex. Allow me to add one more to the group of words used for talking about information. 'Eltrovi' means to find out. It's often interchangeable with 'ekscii', but it may give a hint at the speaker being surprised/discovering something, or having looked for the information that they eventually found.
Esperantists: Come learn Esperanto! It's easy to understand and pronounce!
Also Esperantists: We have weird consonant clusters, three 'i's in a row, and even when you can write books in the language you'll struggle to pick the right words for basic concepts.
I think your video title is correct.
Both are true.
Esperantists: Come learn Esperanto! It's easy to understand and pronounce!
(Yes, even if you had never seen ekscii before, you would immediately understand its meaning and how to pronounce it, even if pronouncing it correctly takes a little practice.)
Also Esperantists: We have weird consonant clusters, three 'i's in a row, and even when you can write books in the language you'll struggle to pick the right words for basic concepts.
(It does contain elements that English speakers would consider weird. In English, people erroneously use expressions like "irregardless" or "it begs the question" and people still understand what they mean. I could have used lerni incorrectly and gotten by, but I have higher standards than that. Let's not pretend the existence of a more precise word is an Esperanto-specific phenomenon making it just as difficult to learn then as English.)
You imply that a language having weird or difficult quirks means you shouldn't learn it. Do you want me to apply that logic to other languages, or do you think your logic might be a bit flawed?
The "weird consonant clusters" of esperanto? As far as I know, Esperanto never have three "i" in a row.
Oh boy, you should try learning literally any other language. Esperanto is not perfectly simple, but compared with any other language I know it is a walk in the park. It took me two weeks to get Esperanto to a level higher than Irish after four years.
@@EdouardTavinor I have; I speak fluent Spanish, good Italian and French, and can more or less get by in some others. And while those took time and are undoubtedly harder than Esperanto, I just enjoy spending time in them much more
In Danish we use the same word for "lerni", "ekscii" and "instrui" : "lære" where English has two. but we have two words for "know": "kende" (eo: koni) = is familiar with, and "vide" (eo: scii) = know a fact, where English has only one.
Being aware that this one word = two (or more) word in the other language, occurs in both direction between, I dare say, any two languages, I often use Google Translate to check whether a word can have more than one translations, and if so I go deeper into each word to learn the proper usage.
In 19th century grammar, (or for that matter 1970s grammar,) your original sentence in English would have been improper as well. Not unintelligible, but considered colloquial speech. It passes modern English grammar check scrutiny only because there are far more untrained English speakers than trained, so through use, the previously improper use has become an accepted definition. Yet another reason English is somewhat difficult to learn. Where one had such classical grammar education in the 19th century, one would consider such colloquial use "classless." Now, we're not as judgemental.
Mojosa video, sinjoro.
Mi lernas esperanton ekde du jaroj sed mi eksciis novan regulon hodiaŭ. Dankon.
Cxu mi povas vin nomigi "Filipego" aux "Filipeto"?
@@laislyra5512 Filipeto kompreneble
@@filipo9093 hahahahah
Tre amuza profilnomo.
I'm confused but hai
Mi eksciis la vorto "ekscii".
Dankon Exploring-Esperanto.
Vi estas tre bona instruisto!
This is pretty easy for me as a native Portuguese speaker to understand. It sounds weird to me that in English you can use "learn" in sentences like "I learned that he had left". Because we only use "learn" as a result of studying. Like something that you acquire to your knowledge.
Examples of correct use of "lerni":
Mi lernas Esperanton.
Mi lernis tri vortojn hieraux.
Mi lernis, ke la uzado de "lerni" ne cxiam facilas.
Mi lernas pri la Esperanta movado.
Incorrect use of "lerni":
Mi lernis pri sxia opinio
(That would imply that you really sat on a chair and started studying about her opinion)
Mi lernis, ke li mortis.
(You could learn about the death of a historical figure, but otherwise, no)
Mi lernis la kanton.
(Maybe you could learn how to play a song, but for memorizing sentences, we don't usually use it)
But I'm saying that based on how the verb is used in Portuguese.
I didn't know Matt Damon had a RUclips channel!
I tought it was Stephan Salvatore
I was clickbaited.
And actually I want to note, the verb «to learn» in English confuses me to this day, because in my native language we have 2 separate words as well.
Well if you ever decide to try learning Esperanto, my channel is at your disposal. What's your native language?
@@ExploringEsperanto Russian.
I think the English concept of continuous forms is similar. Some verbs do not have a continuous (like 'can' or 'be' in the sense of esti) but others do (like 'be' in the sense of behave). It seems to me that ekscii is in the first group (there is no gradual transition between not ekscii and ekscii) but lerni represents something with a gradual transition.
I think this problem happens only to native English speakers. In most other languages the definition of the verb "to learn" is the same like in Esperanto.
You're learning me about LERNI !!!
Thanks very much for your video.
One question: Can/should "ekscii" ever be used in the present tense, in the sense of "I'm suddenly aware of this fact"?
Also, what might "eklerni" mean? Assuming it is a word. I've begun learning? Or possibly I'm suddenly learning?
Edit: I guess that was more than one question! Mi pardonpetas!
It's things like this that add unnecessary ambiguity to a language that is presented as not having issues that natural languages do. Esperanto is easier in a lot of ways, but then you get to things like this & you're reminded that that's not totally true. Another example would be "verki". It doesn't mean "work" as you may assume if you speak English. It means "to write" (a book). "Mi verkas libro" would be "I am writing a book". the verb for "to write" in general is "skribi". "To work" is "labori". It makes it more difficult to translate accurately if you don't the difference. Latin has the same problem (although Esperanto isn't _as_ bad.) The Latin phrase "Fiat iustitia et pereat mundus" is an example. "Fiat iustitia" means "let justice be done", but "et pereat mundus" is a little ambiguous. It's not clear whether it means "and the world perish" or "and let the world perish". That's sort of the problem with "lerni/ekscii" & "verki/labori". That's not to mention things like "plaĝo" & "strando" both meaning "beach". There's no difference, just from different languages.
Is the glottal stop necessary when there are two of the same vowel? I think it sounds ugly.
Bonege video! Mi lernis ion novan /s
Mi eksciis ion hodiaŭ.
Dankon!
Mi eksciis kiel uzi lerni, studi kaj ekscii hodiaŭ - dankon, Alekso! 🙂
Dankon Alex. This will be worth listening to again and it just made you gain a new follower.
Mi ŝatas pli studi ol lerni. That is because my mind set is more theoretical than practical.
Fakte mi ŝatas observi kaj kompari kaj mi bezonas studi kaj lerni. So I tremendously enjoyed your nuancing of words and I am looking forward to listening to your other posts. Studying a subject may carry the notion of obligation as studying in school but it also is deeply rooted in science because it is observing a subject, trying to deduct patterns and rules, experiment with it . Experiencing a language is a notion I like very much. No amount of studying nor learning is required: just hearing or reading suffices in the first passive steps opening the door to the active ones, speaking and writing.
I don’t want to study or learn languages I need to do so in order to acquire them. So far I suck at acquiring languages, having truly acquired only two, and am more successful at acquiring methods, books, dictionaries, apps, ressources, etc...
How much is using methods and getting good at using methods is actually studying and learning a language? Intrinsically a method will only bring you so far as it can just like a beautiful girl can only offer you what she has. In French we say «Même la plus belle fille du monde ne peut offrir que ce qu’elle a.»
Thanks for your presence and the generosity of your involvement on the Esperanto scene. So have a good day, a good year and be blessed and a blessing to others.
🙏
.
This is my first video of yours that I watched. Damn that word Ekscii is damn tough to say. It's the hardest word that I've ever encountered to pronounce. I'll think of ecstasy Anyway, I subscribed.
Remember that you don't have to divide it as ek-scii! If it will make things easier, you can divide it like eks-cii :)
@@artiomboyko : vi malpravas, la nura ĝusta prononco estas "ek-scii".
@@lucarnetrange ...
En Esperanto ne estas reguloj pri silabdivido. Mi feke povas diri e-kscii se mi volas
I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm learning Esperanto in English. So sometimes, English makes me confused a lot. (My English is not that good).
Bonege - dankon!
Ĉe Duolingo estas frazo: "Hodiaŭ ni lernas kvar vortojn de Esperanto". Do, laŭ la video, tiu frazo vere devus esti: "Hodiaŭ ni ekscias kvar vortojn de Esperanto"?
I think that phrase could be fine the way it is. Think of it this way: could you replace the word "learn" with "study" here? If so, "lerni" is fine. In my spelling/vocab classes growing up, we would have say a dozen vocab words to learn each week where we had to learn their spellings, etymologies, and meanings in order to pass the quiz and fully understand them. We wrote them over and over again, came up with sentences that included them, and did true or false and matching activities to distinguish them from one another. You would not apply such effort to simply finding out that Grandma is coming over for dinner or that "efficacy" is a word in the English language. If we're only learning four Esperanto words in one day, I would hope that we're learning them thoroughly.
@Exploring Esperanto
Thank you for your extensive answer, Alex! You really are exceptionally apt in teaching! Fonto de scio 😄
So - being a non-native English speaker - I will think of ekscii more like 'discover' as opposed to 'doing the effort of taking into your knowledge base" ;)
@@lvoldum Thanks. Discover is pretty close. Think about this too. Ekpluvas means it is just now starting to rain. How long can it be raining before you have to switch to saying pluvas? Similarly, you can only ekscii something at first. For that reason, I doubt the teacher just mentioned 4 Esperanto words in passing but rather taught them thoroughly making lerni more appropriate.
Mi ĵus kontrolis la 'Dictionary'/vortaron de Duolingo, kaj tiu frazo ne plu ekzistas en la versio de la kurso, kiun mi vidas/studas. Ŝajne ili forigis tiun frazon el la kurso. Mi konjektas ke la gvidantoj de Duolingo por Esperanto 'eksciis' aŭ 'eltrovis' ke tiu uzo ne helpis la lernantojn efike lerni Esperanton.
But you can learn (lerni) that you shouldn’t use lerni to mean find out. That’s learning so lerni can be used :) Both things mean something different. Obvioualy you cannot learn (lerni) that someone died, but you can learn (lerni) that you shouldn’t insult people as you can get beaten ;) So “lerni ke” is not necessarily always wrong.
As you point out, Mateusz, special situations exist. But I just searched La Tekstaro, the largest Esperanto text corpus, and not a single writer in the collection used 'lernas ke' (or 'lern' with any other verb form) before the year 2001, when it appeared in 'La Ondo De Esperanto'. So although it is possible, as you say, it is very rare in written texts.
I have committed myself to making sure my Polish is always better than my Esperanto. People actually speak it without effort.
For a Brazilian perpective I understand easily why do not use, lerni only why I speak portuguese.
We don't need a synonym for "study" as much as we need a comfortable word for information acquisition so I might neglect to learn this lesson and hope that language evolution tends in the same direction.
Ĵus mi pensis pri ĉi tiu problemo. Dankon por la informoj
Yes I was quite titillated by your title.
But you learnis la esperanto lingvon
@@devonoknabo2582 I was wondering why he used such a title.
@@verdakorako4599 because Esperantists love when they hear that phrase†
So when you tell someone about Esperanto they now ekscias
Yes. It would be like paying for a billboard that said "Esperanto!" near the highway. Many people will read that sign; nobody is going to study it. In fact, that's where I'd use a verb like "ekkonscii." If you sat them down for a lecture on the history of Esperanto, they might actually "lerni" about it.
If someone ekscias about Esperanto only now, he must be an illiterate dunce of the highest order.
i feel like a better example of ekscii in english would be "find out" rather then "learn"
In hindsight after making this video, I'm inclined to agree. Hopefully people walk away from this video not using lerni when they ought to be using ekscii. It's funny how this video became so popular when other lessons I've made (such as "All That in Esperanto" where I discuss tio vs. tiu vs. ke) have information that is so much more useful.
The same mistake happens in Italian: teach and learn (insegnare e imparare) mistake is: mi ha imparato (insegnato)
Ekscias = finding out?
Yep.
Is it just me or are some of the complexities of Esperanto self defeating in a language meant to be easy to learn?
Here's how I think of it. Super Mario Bros. for the NES is a great game and anybody can pick up a controller and play the first level with relative ease. If you google "world record mario speedrun," you can find people finishing that game in under 5 minutes.
I could see someone commenting on those videos saying, "Is this game even fun if you have to race through it so quickly and stress out about shaving off fractions of a second?" The game is absolutely still fun to just play casually and can be enjoyed without mastering all the hidden shortcuts, but there is added enjoyment for those who want to dig deeper.
Similarly, you can absolutely make friends at Esperanto conventions for years and communicate well without knowing the slight differences between the verbs I mention here. I know because I have done so.
Hi.
Using the verb «learn» correctly is not a complexity.
I mean: in other languages it is not like in English. In this video he is talking about an error some English speakers do because they are just copying-tracing the words of their language.
"To acquire the ability of a new skil by assimilating it with one's own experience" is not like "Receive information".
So, for those who do not speak English it is funny see the same verb is used for such different concepts.
It is also funny that in English the same verb is used for "what a child does with his toys", "what a musician with his instruments", and "what an actor do when he pretends", for example.
It can seem like there are many complexities in Alex's excellent videos, because he tries to accurately explain the meanings of words. But this is not something unique to Esperanto. In every language, almost every word can be applied to some range of meanings, and then there are harder or softer limits, and beyond the limits, you have to use a different word. If you could use the word 'cat' for a 'dog', then neither word has much value for communication. These words are useful to us, because they make a firm distinction between two things that we often want to distinguish. Of course, you can use the word 'animal' for either one, and that is useful when we want a general word. Alex gives us a good overview of the meanings and limits of different words in Esperanto, and tells us which are more general and which are more specific.
@@mapahastaelpasadizomhep4655 Isn't acquiring the ability of a new skill by assimilating it with one's own experience already incorporate the process of receiving new information? To an english speaker like me, this is a distinction without a difference.
It's not "complexity" when Esperanto fails to conform to the expectations of anglophones. It's just difference.
toki pona la kama sona li kama sona a!
How did people learn esperanto.before you
Vi eatas la plej bona instruisto en la tuta mondon
That's one of the loveliest compliments I've gotten in a while. Thank you.
Tiu estas unu el la plej afablaj komplimentoj, kiujn mi ricevis dum longa tempo. Dankon.
Infelizmente não sei inglês kkkkk! O Esperanto está sendo meu primeiro idioma que tento aprender.
Esperanto o syvält mut toi on aik based.
That means Esperanto isnt as easy people says
That entirely depends on which people you talk to. I try not to exaggerate how easy it is, but it still is drastically easier to learn than any other widely spoken language. You can also make little mistakes in Esperanto and still be understood for the most part, so not knowing the subtle differences between lerni and ekscii would not keep someone from enjoying the use of this language.
I mean, it's not esperanto's fault that English uses the same word for those concepts, many other languages do distinct them
Antaŭ dek du jaroj, mi eksciis Esperanto ekzistis.
Mi statkonas, ke vi lingve tre sagacas. Oni povus verki tutan libron pri kie kaj kie anglezano povus misi en Esperanto. Kulpas la angla, ĉar ĝi havas tiom da strangaj idiomaĵoj. Sed ĉio ĉi ne gravas por mi: Mi neniam lernos Esperanton.
Dankegon! Oni lernas (ahem, ekscias) ion novan ĉiutage.
Great video! saluton kaj dankon amiko!!!
I *found out*
this man is great
So
mi eksias vian nomon
Mi lernas kvarkojn (quarks)
MI informigxi ke igxe ne estas vorto
THE MUFFIN MAN?
Petition to make acceptable for 'C' to make an unvoiced 'TH' sound instead of 'TS'.
The “th” sounds aren’t in a lot of languages, so why would that be changed
Estetike, mi malamas Esperanton. Ekscii sonas terure nenatura kaj malfacilas diri
Clickbait title, good video.
Does anyone know how to get in contact with other samideanoj? I moved to Germany some time ago, and I thought it would be easier to find other Esperantists here... But no.
Thanks. Have you checked Pasporta Servo?
@@ExploringEsperanto Oh, I haven't checked Pasporta Servo yet. Good idea! thx
Also the phone app Amikumu could be a good resource. It will help you locate and communicate with other Esperantist users of the app who are near you. It supports languages besides Esperanto, but Esperanto was its first language.
@@DerekRoff I already know about Amikumu :) I can find people near my city with it, but never IN my city. Well, thanks anyway.
@@laislyra5512 That sounds like it would be frustrating. But perhaps some of the people near your city will know some people in your city. It's ultimately about networking, and any networking method might help.
Eble mi lernetis vian lecionon.
Al tiu, kiu venos post mi.
ruclips.net/video/I_qHDAx0I8M/видео.html
Sendu la ligilon al la amiko.
hellow
I kinda gave up on it after words with SC in it. The words feel unnatural and kinda ruined the flow.
English is worse with words like strengths (that is /stʃɹɛŋkθs/), natives just don't realize how how those are hard.
Saluton!
very bad title.
Ekscii vs scii
Clickbait
Ekscii. eKSCii. /ksts/!!!! - these clusters are getting outta hand. Let's stay away from eĉscii because why not /tʃsts/?
Eks-tsee-ee (ekscii)
Klakallogaĵo!
Good click bait. I'll have to remember the tactic.
برا
This kinda suck
And English speaking people are supposed to be able to learn Esperanto in 150 days? No way.
150 hours actually.
@@murphy4907 as in: 6 weeks with 25 hours of class per week. but for ordinary people there's no need to rush it like that. Take a week of class, or two, or three...then take a few months to digest and absorb what you learned
No
Esperanto is a joke, and shouldn't be taken seriously (an Esperanto speaker here). It's very much a cult-like quasi-religious movement which, realizing its ideological foundations were based on a simplistic false premise that the world's conflicts could be boiled down simply to the ''lack of linguistic unity'', is now having an identity crisis regarding its aims and functions as an international movement. Nevertheless, it makes a good hobby and is a nice travel tool to get to know interesting people and have fun, otherwise it belongs to a history museum.
Do you really mean Finvenkismo is a joke (the idea that Esperanto is actually going to become a major secondary language across the world and unite the world in peace and harmony)? That might be more accurate. Esperanto itself is merely a tool that legitimately and currently helps people connect with each other and learn new things. Calling it a joke is like calling Scrabble a joke. Some people do it just for fun, others to connect with people, others to learn new languages, but it definitely exists as a functioning tool regardless. Not sure what about that would make it a joke.
@@ExploringEsperanto seems like a comment from someone who has hardly ever had a close contact with the Esperanto movement. :)
@@lashachakhunashvili1399 no, it sounds like you think that the part you have been in contact with is somehow representative of the hundreds of thousands that you have not been in contact with. Most of us are fully aware that having a language in common is not enough to prevent war