Julius Nepos restores the Western Roman Empire! (Alternate History)
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
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Ideas next in alternate history Maiorianus... What if Justinian never retook the west?
What if Justinian didn't waste so much money & resources on grand building projects in Constantinople and only focused mostly on maintaining his Eastern Empire & fortifying it against further invasions from the Persians and Slavs to the North... only taking back North Africa from the Vandals instead, while keeping the prosperity of the empire ongoing for the better instead... how would history turn out differently if he was moderate in his ambitions?
The plague still hits, but with far more money in the treasury, he can still hire more mercenaries to back up his depleted armies in the East till they eventfully recover and fight off any future Persian invasions, as well as northern invasions from other peoples.
Would Italy still be mostly intact than what happened in the Gothic wars, and would it be able to fight off further invasions by other peoples on its own? = like the Franks, Lombards and others?
What if the Eastern Roman + Persian wars of 602 to 628 AD never happened too, could both empires fend off the Arab invasions together in an alliance & push them back, being much stronger than their weakened counterparts in our history... and would it stop them for good or for a few decades or centuries to come before their resurgence?
Long story short: what if the Romans won at the battle of Yarmouk?
Part 2: What if the Eastern Romans won at Manzikert? = would it stop the Turks completely if the empire wasn't so disunited or would it just delay the inevitable from constant invasions to come?
If the empire was far more united with a more formidable ruler, better generals and a well-organized and far less corrupt government & nobility with no further civil wars in infighting and more united armed forces... could the empire hold them back, if Basil the 2nd had heirs or a far more worthy successor in continued lines to keep the empire strong?
And if so, would they be able to kick out the Normans from Italy, Sicily and the whole Mediterranean for good eventfully when they come as well?
No weakened empire means no gold bullion & unfair economic treaties with Venice that ruined the empire's economy & industries down the century onwards, which means no crusades if Anatolia is kept, with the empire still mostly intact.
How would Eastern Rome deal with the Mongols when they eventfully arrive? = would they be in a better position to fight them off, loss horribly... or make truces with them in diplomacy and trade deals to keep them away from conquering them? = being neutral or semi allies, instead of having wars of extermination & subjugation?
Which means no 4th crusade destroying Constantinople & crippling the empire, means no Ottoman empire rising, meaning no closed silk road with higher taxes from the Turks down on Christian merchants, which means no colonial period... taking many more decades or centuries for that to happen instead... and what would a modern Eastern Rome look like if it survived to today as a new modern Greece = but bigger, due to having all its lands of modern Turkey & others?
Would the crusades still happen to try to take back Jerusalem, which might still cause trouble with Eastern Rome on the way there by land & sea... or would they just go elsewhere in Europe in fighting other themselves & other pagan kingdoms instead, or eventfully pick a fight with Byzantium instead... and how it would all turn out?
Could Eastern Rome survive post medieval period into the 1500s onwards... and could it adapt fast enough to bear better firearms & cannons with other new technologies when it came to the age of sails... taking back all of Syria, the Levant and Egypt in time before having more of a presence trading more again in all the Mediterranean world and beyond into India again?
Would Eastern Rome still being mostly intact as an empire prevent the age of sails from happening in delaying it all for a few more centuries, due to trade in the east still being open for business with the west... or would it still go on as usual, just a few decades off... and would Eastern Rome become a colonial empire, or just stay home mostly as a Mediterranean power mainly?
How would Eastern Rome do any better than the Ottomans in this timeline... and how would they cope with the European wars that followed & the industrial revolution?
I know that Eastern Rome would not survive as an empire forever, but by the time of the revolutions... it would most certainly reform itself into a new Eastern Roman Republic of Greece instead = the successor to both the empire and roman republic to the former one in the west almost two millennia ago... representative republic & democracy, but the emperor position either being disbanded or becoming ceremonial... while the old former senate is renewed as the heads of government as officials & state, like a federation with others to run the Eastern republic together.
Constantinople still intact in name & being the continued capital of Eastern Rome & Greece, instead of Athens... the latter being only more of a centre of education, history and cultural in importance & tourism.
The main areas & centre of Constantinople and its walls still remaining intact with its traditional buildings with very rare new ones... but the expanded city further out becomes more industrialized & vastly populated with an ever-growing Greek population from their own prosperity in new wealth from world trade & baby booms that lead to a much bigger & modern outer city limits & suburbs like modern Istanbul stretching outward, but far better organized and developed.
I still wonder with that if it would survive & do better off than modern day Turkey... how it deal with other colonial powers being around in the middle east or not, how it would go through WW1 & 2... and what would its position be during the cold war?
My personal opinion there is that it would remain mostly armed neutral between both super powers & Europe... but would be the middle man & mediator between both sides = since it's a represented democracy & republic, with good ties to the West in trade & defence, but has good relationships with Russia for over a thousand years in its own and wishes to keeping the peace between both sides not dragging them into their affairs at home, while keep them both out too, but is still willing to trade between the two peacefully... and would be more of a second Paris UN meeting point of officials of the Mediterranean to talk when desperately needed.
And with that, the war on terror might be less wide spread & there may not be a Ukraine war either... since Byzantium would try to keep both sides from meddling in one another's affairs... because Eastern Rome would be trading with Eastern Europe & middle east closer to home with Russia in nation developments & growth... which means Euro, Nato and UN would not be needed there or wanted... because they be doing much better off in this alternate timeline... maybe even more prosperous as well.
Unless something else would be going on for others to screw it all up leading to our time's events?
How I would love to have seen this version of Constantinople & Eastern Rome still being around today & mostly intact and beautiful to visit in tourism... we can only dream, right?
good work
You are SEBASTIANVS to me!
On my italian channel we create the same uchronia. It's now more than 120 episodes long and we are in 1946. So good luck for your story!
Man if only I knew Italia
@@wehatetimmymaybe you can use subtitles
The Virgin Romulus Augustulus: "Sniff. I have failed the Empire I swore to protect. I don't deserve to be called Romulus and Augustus!" 😢
The Chad Julius Nepos: "Step aside, kid. It's time to let the big boys play..."
Odoacer: "Oh, you're aproaching me?"
The Chad Julius Nepos: "Of course. I cannot civilize you without getting closer..."
To be fair Romulus Augustulus was only a child and was presumably under house arrest
Edit: Hang on a sec
*grabs book with educating intent*
As the two Roman Empires grow culturally distinct I wonder if they'll develop names for each other like how HRE historians called the Eastern Roman Empire of our timeline "Byzantine".
Hi Charles, yes, that is interesting to think about, how that would have developed in this alternate timeline. The cultural divide would not have been as strong and as permanent, probably, and maybe the term "Byzantine" might not have been coined at all, considering that it was coined by a European 16th century historian named Hieronymus Wolf.
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian Plus they’d be disrespectful to their own brothers by not referring them as Romans if in an alternate timeline they both stayed alive
I imagine the eastern Greek (orthodox) Romans calling the later western Romans (Catholic) Latins.🤔
@@LordWyatt well, up until the 800s, western Christians and eastern Christians were mostly Chalcedonians of a sort, after that the differences began to show.
They'd probably refer to each other as the Latin Empire in the West and the Greek Empire in the East.
I think Nepos of not assassinated had potential. He was the last of the Julian Gens, the same clan Caesar came from so they had the reputation for great warriors, he was a good general and a good politician. I highly doubt he would of gotten Gaul or Hispania or Africa back but he could of fortified Italy against the Germans and Goths until someone could, or got help from the East.
Leo was able to see the future... He knew what was going to happen with the world after Rome... just look at his eyes.
For a first-time alt-history video on this channel, this is actually better than 50-70% of other alternate history videos on RUclips. I appreciate that you did not make it a big wank-fest where the Romans just win all the time (very common trope), and that you left it open at the end there with the possibility of it just delaying the inevitable (much alternate history content on RUclips seems to have a very superficial understanding of the butterfly effect).
I recall reading about the discovery of military barricades dating from the 5th or 6th century that (iirc) resembled those of the Eastern Roman Empire. There was also an increase in building within some of the remaining British cities albet in wood. There was even an organized shopping complex built in one of the Western cities of Britannia. A large stone fortified building was also built along the Cornish coast during this period. Also, a mosaic floor in a villa was recently dated to the sixth century this is far later than expected. This suggests more was going on in Britannia than we currently understand. What was the extent of the connection with the Eastern Roman Empire especially during the campaigns of Belisarius?
A popular rumor is that king arthur was real and existed during the end days of the west and that he even helped the kingdom odf soissons
@@kzwei2 Yes and if merlin didnt die then he,arthur and Syagrius could've destroyed the franks and burgundians and pushed back the visogths beyond the pyrenees mountains. Then they would help Julios Nepos and the western roman empire would be restored(They would also destroy the ostrogoths)
This can all happen because Merlin is the strongest wizard and will summon the ancient powers of all the pagan gods of rome.
Jupiter/Zues,Sol Invictus,God,Mars etc.
But merlin was still old so he will still die and thus the visigoths and vandals would survive sadly.
@@quantashonjamaldigglerbury4934 nice satire if only you had noticed the part where I said popular rumor not fact,Rumor then you wouldn't have wasted minutes of your life on something useless while I was giving out a fun rumor
I think it's likely that Nepos would have appointed Syagrius as the Magister Militum rather than do anything drastic like getting rid of the position entirely.
He could have appointed a pair of magister militum praesentalis (commander of the troops in the presence (of the emperor)) - which was the actual primary problem with the WRE. The East also had regional Magister Militae and two praesentalis, but the West could only afford one, which recreated all the problems of the old Praetorian Prefect.
This is the final "what if" that could have changed the outcome, which all came down to the disease that Leo caught. They should make a movie based on this alternative. "What if Leo had not caught that disease?"
I really love “alternative history” scenarios! Would a change have made a difference? I know some people think that would create a paradox with horrible results (they obviously don’t consider that every action they take create different results over time…). I tend ti believe if you eliminate something bad, the likely hood is the result will be better, no reason to think it will automatically be worse! All you can know for certain is it WILL be different. That’s a long winded comment aimed at continuing these speculations. But, I love the straight history too.
Hi Hal and thanks for the comment. Yes indeed, alternate history is always interesting to speculate about, but of course it remains speculation and can never be proven that this or that would have definitively happened. But it indeed is fun to think about these alternate timelines :)
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian could you make another about severus Alexander and if he attacked again Persia?
Thank you for this such amazing videos! Big hug from Portugal
Hello Mauro, thank you very much, I really appreciate it a lot :) All the best to Portugal, and have a nice day !
It would also be interesting to know what would happen if the Goths haven't conquered Odoacer's Italy, as he was fairly supportive of Roman traditions and gave more power to the Senate.
On the topic of Alternate History, have you read "The Reign of Romulus Augustus"?
It's about if the Orestes kept his promises to the goths and in turn they didnt depose him, keeping Italy nominally under roman rule and thus avoiding it's destruction in the Gothic-Roman Wars later on
Its a interesting read and one that can be found online, highly recommend
Interesting take! Fifth century Rome had no shortage of heroes, but they were always outnumbered by brigands and usurpers.
Your videos are always excellent, the very best!
Yessss finally someone who remembers julius nepos
I think without gothic wars, Persian invasion of Byzantium might have not happened too, also attitude of justinian was a catastrophe as well, despite signing eternal peace, he humiliated khosrow by calling him Barbarian, bribing turks to attack Persia (which was discovered) and gothic envoys begging for help from persia to attack byzantium while Byzantine army was occupied with goths, so i would say rise of arabs wouldn’t be plausible in this timeline, as gothic wars is really cause of everything
Could the Western Romans still be content with having Italy?
Here in Italy we got a alternate history series starting from a similar premise. The stuff has been going on for three years now, It has arrived to year 1947 and Britain is the first of several communist nations, fascism's called crossism and Hitler's a communist painter painting the equivalent of Guernica.
You mention that Julius Nepos' Dalmatian force had been routed by the Visigoths in Gaul. Could he have been more prudent and delayed that campaign until he'd consolidated his position in Italy?
Leo I did live into his seventies, a ripe old age for that time. That begs the opposite question, what if he'd died earlier?
Come to think of it, Leo was already in his fifties when he became Emperor in 457. What if he died very soon (like a few months, at most a year)? Majorian would be campaigning in Gaul by 458. All hell breaking loose in the East would probably render him unable to reconquer Spain.
Odoacer gang! Based Germanic king of Rome, accepted and integrated Roman governance and institutions while promoting Latin Culture.
Thanks for this video. Superb work as always. Glycerius as bishop of Salona is claimed by the historian Malchus as the instigator of the assassination of Nepos. And it is claimed that Odoacer upgraded Glycerius to the far more important diocese of Milan, although the evidence for that is slight enough. Anyhow, Justinian was not a man given to trusting anyone but his wife and certain officials. This slowed the ERE reconquest of Italy as Belisarius found himself undercut by court intrigue, although his part-time replacement the eunuch Narses was very able, and trusted a bit more by Justinian. Yet I wonder if Africa had fallen, Justinian might had reasons to distrust Nepos or any successor (he wasn't a trusting sort) and this could have been a new episode for ERE-WRE scheming, maybe along the lines of Magister utriusque militiae Stilicho trying to assert guardianship over Arcadius as he was already over Honorius. I hope you don't mind my speculations on this counter-factual.
Hello Flying Isaac, thanks a lot for your excellent comment, really good thoughts there as always. Yes, it is speculated that Glycerius had Nepos killed, but I always kind of doubted that theory. The reality is, that the sources are extremely vague, and I think that a preparation of a military expedition against Odoacer seems quite likely. Why would Ovida and Viator, two high ranking generals in Nepos' army, be persuaded by Glycerius, what would they have to gain? The theory that they were in fact reluctant to embark on a very dangerous mission to Italy, seems at least to me, more plausbile. But I do appreciate your input a lot :)
14:06 this is a very interesting point because quite a lot of parts of history comes from having separate churches, having one single church in europe would be interesting to see the consequences of.
I think a major issue with the western half of the empire is that once you have Italy and the Illyrian coast that any succession and defence is flimsy. The state is unequal in stature to the eastern state and the powerbase is unequal to the task of expanding. It was shown that the populace was subservient to the Goths and that Odoacur's forces were insufficient to defend the lands. Any army sent by the east had to come from existing soldiers and it is clear that Zeno did not have the manpower pool to spare for such a task. Even Justinian struggled with setting asside the troops. So I am unconvinced a strong invasion force could have been sent for Julius Nepos to have a second bite of the cherry or to hold the position.
I live 100 meters away from ancient walls of Salona. The city buildings, churches, arena, necropolis are still visable today. Although not in full height because ancient city was used as quarry for centuries. Even my grandmothers house is build of stone from Salona.
You should honestly make more of these alternate history videos.
I have one suggestion,
What if Charlamagne married Irene?
I think the Visigoths were in a much weaker state than you gave them credit for. To the north, prior to the Frankish conquests, Soissons was still shockingly loyal to the absent throne of the Western Empire, and fielded a considerable army. With the Dalmatian + Eastern Roman armies attacking the south, a full reconquest of Gaul is far from impossible in this timeline
_"...all because Leo I died."_ That ignorant bastard, how could he be so selfish and just go ahead and die?
Brilliant video, very funny thought experiment and very good ideas for an alternative outcome and history.
Really, he could've simply declared himself sole emperor during the one-year interregnum of the west, right?
@1:38 that is a nice transition and very illustrative.
Guys, there's an Italian series that talks about it, it's called "ucronia impero romano" of heikudo; we've arrived at 1945
I really enjoyed the video!
I hope you eventually do a video on romanization of various territories of the empire.
I'm also interested about the fate of Romans in North Africa outside of the Roman-Mauro kingdom and Vandalic kingdom, in present day Morroco to be more precise.
This needs a part 2 from 800s to 1300s
How did Alexandria look like right after the Muslim conquest of Egypt?
Great video, by the way! 👍
Hello :) Excellent question, I will add this to the future video list, and will make some research ! Thanks for the topic suggestion.
Hi Maioranus, great Video!
I like, how sometimes it seams, that only the early death of a roman emperor shaped our timeline.
But I ask myself: What about Syagrius? He considered himself roman and held onto the roman bureocracy and gallo-roman aristocracy. Wouldnt Julius Nepos had approached him to join forces against burgundy and/or francia?
The arabian invasion is also a thing, that could or not could have happened, since its partly the result of the exhaustion of east-rome and persia. Maybe in this timeline, east-rome would have had help from the west or maybe Rome/Persia could (for once) stayed true to their contracts.
Syagirus biggest problem were the franks,I doubt Nepos would have enough strength to spare to send a strong army against the Franks.
A wonderful Historical Coverage of That Period of Western Rome Empire ...Explain is Proving Capturing of Thrones Much Easers than Preservation & Rules Settled during times
Love your videos as always! 😎😉😊❤
Ideas next in alternate history Maiorianus... What if Justinian never retook the west?
What if Justinian didn't waste so much money & resources on grand building projects in Constantinople and only focused mostly on maintaining his Eastern Empire & fortifying it against further invasions from the Persians and Slavs to the North... only taking back North Africa from the Vandals instead, while keeping the prosperity of the empire ongoing for the better instead... how would history turn out differently if he was moderate in his ambitions?
The plague still hits, but with far more money in the treasury, he can still hire more mercenaries to back up his depleted armies in the East till they eventfully recover and fight off any future Persian invasions, as well as northern invasions from other peoples.
Would Italy still be mostly intact than what happened in the Gothic wars, and would it be able to fight off further invasions by other peoples on its own? = like the Franks, Lombards and others?
What if the Eastern Roman + Persian wars of 602 to 628 AD never happened too, could both empires fend off the Arab invasions together in an alliance & push them back, being much stronger than their weakened counterparts in our history... and would it stop them for good or for a few decades or centuries to come before their resurgence?
Long story short: what if the Romans won at the battle of Yarmouk?
Part 2: What if the Eastern Romans won at Manzikert? = would it stop the Turks completely if the empire wasn't so disunited or would it just delay the inevitable from constant invasions to come?
If the empire was far more united with a more formidable ruler, better generals and a well-organized and far less corrupt government & nobility with no further civil wars in infighting and more united armed forces... could the empire hold them back, if Basil the 2nd had heirs or a far more worthy successor in continued lines to keep the empire strong?
And if so, would they be able to kick out the Normans from Italy, Sicily and the whole Mediterranean for good eventfully when they come as well?
No weakened empire means no gold bullion & unfair economic treaties with Venice that ruined the empire's economy & industries down the century onwards, which means no crusades if Anatolia is kept, with the empire still mostly intact.
How would Eastern Rome deal with the Mongols when they eventfully arrive? = would they be in a better position to fight them off, loss horribly... or make truces with them in diplomacy and trade deals to keep them away from conquering them? = being neutral or semi allies, instead of having wars of extermination & subjugation?
Which means no 4th crusade destroying Constantinople & crippling the empire, means no Ottoman empire rising, meaning no closed silk road with higher taxes from the Turks down on Christian merchants, which means no colonial period... taking many more decades or centuries for that to happen instead... and what would a modern Eastern Rome look like if it survived to today as a new modern Greece = but bigger, due to having all its lands of modern Turkey & others?
Would the crusades still happen to try to take back Jerusalem, which might still cause trouble with Eastern Rome on the way there by land & sea... or would they just go elsewhere in Europe in fighting other themselves & other pagan kingdoms instead, or eventfully pick a fight with Byzantium instead... and how it would all turn out?
Could Eastern Rome survive post medieval period into the 1500s onwards... and could it adapt fast enough to bear better firearms & cannons with other new technologies when it came to the age of sails... taking back all of Syria, the Levant and Egypt in time before having more of a presence trading more again in all the Mediterranean world and beyond into India again?
Would Eastern Rome still being mostly intact as an empire prevent the age of sails from happening in delaying it all for a few more centuries, due to trade in the east still being open for business with the west... or would it still go on as usual, just a few decades off... and would Eastern Rome become a colonial empire, or just stay home mostly as a Mediterranean power mainly?
How would Eastern Rome do any better than the Ottomans in this timeline... and how would they cope with the European wars that followed & the industrial revolution?
I know that Eastern Rome would not survive as an empire forever, but by the time of the revolutions... it would most certainly reform itself into a new Eastern Roman Republic of Greece instead = the successor to both the empire and roman republic to the former one in the west almost two millennia ago... representative republic & democracy, but the emperor position either being disbanded or becoming ceremonial... while the old former senate is renewed as the heads of government as officials & state, like a federation with others to run the Eastern republic together.
Constantinople still intact in name & being the continued capital of Eastern Rome & Greece, instead of Athens... the latter being only more of a centre of education, history and cultural in importance & tourism.
The main areas & centre of Constantinople and its walls still remaining intact with its traditional buildings with very rare new ones... but the expanded city further out becomes more industrialized & vastly populated with an ever-growing Greek population from their own prosperity in new wealth from world trade & baby booms that lead to a much bigger & modern outer city limits & suburbs like modern Istanbul stretching outward, but far better organized and developed.
I still wonder with that if it would survive & do better off than modern day Turkey... how it deal with other colonial powers being around in the middle east or not, how it would go through WW1 & 2... and what would its position be during the cold war?
My personal opinion there is that it would remain mostly armed neutral between both super powers & Europe... but would be the middle man & mediator between both sides = since it's a represented democracy & republic, with good ties to the West in trade & defence, but has good relationships with Russia for over a thousand years in its own and wishes to keeping the peace between both sides not dragging them into their affairs at home, while keep them both out too, but is still willing to trade between the two peacefully... and would be more of a second Paris UN meeting point of officials of the Mediterranean to talk when desperately needed.
And with that, the war on terror might be less wide spread & there may not be a Ukraine war either... since Byzantium would try to keep both sides from meddling in one another's affairs... because Eastern Rome would be trading with Eastern Europe & middle east closer to home with Russia in nation developments & growth... which means Euro, Nato and UN would not be needed there or wanted... because they be doing much better off in this alternate timeline... maybe even more prosperous as well.
Unless something else would be going on for others to screw it all up leading to our time's events?
How I would love to have seen this version of Constantinople & Eastern Rome still being around today & mostly intact and beautiful to visit in tourism... we can only dream, right?
Important to consider in this, that's the position of Russia. I thing it would never have become what it is, as Russia took the role of Constantinople and rose as its heir. What Russia is in the real timeline, ERE would be in this alternative one. And it's also very interesting and tempting to think about this.
I like the music, it enhances the video, unlike most video music, which is just plain annoying, all that screeching and wailing.
centuries later and you've somehow given me hope.. if only :(
Realm of Odoacer. Feels bad, man.
just think about the impact this would have on languages, cultures, nationalism
You should do alternate history of Majorian.
Please do more of these Alt hist roman videos I love them
this is so cool, there is a great channel about history made by italians that made so many videos and even made an alt history where julius nepos allies himself with odoacer and manages to keep an imperial title in the west from the time being, by the early 1900s the roman """republic""" and the reign of of greece and the roman empire in nova terra are world superpowers! its called orbis world, hopefully u find a way to translate it to english
I'd imagine the WRE taking advantage of the Papacy and turn themselves into a Theocratic Empire and would send Crusades to recover Carthage and Jerusalem as well as Antioch
This would be a cool campaign expansion for Atilla
“Aside from that nothing changed…” “results in war lasting for 20 years that destroyed all Italian cities…”
Other than that, Ms. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?
I agree, if the Romans had regained the Italy, providing a good foothold in the west at that point, the western empire could have been sustained, and the remaining provinces gradually won back to Roman control. The underlying problem was the western push of barbarian tribes from Asia, forcing Germanic and other barbarian tribes into the Empire. This force continued for so long, until modern times, that it would have been unlikely to have kept the Empire together until today. How different would life be if Europe, the Near East and North Africa were part of a modern Roman Empire? Rome would probably become the single great colonial power, creating a worldwide Empire now. One government and economy for all earth?
How would technology have advanced if the Roman Empire survived into present day as a major power?
Would the 21st Century Roman world have electricity, radio, television, computers, internet and space travel? Without the dark ages would human civilization be far more advanced than it is? For all we know in that timeline by now we might have people living on Mars and maybe even be building starships!
Hmm... The Imperial Starship Coeptis...
Alternative history is a fascinating rathole to go down.
My favourite WRE restoration timeline, for it would be interesting to see a Franco-Western Roman alliance and a Franco-Western Roman led reconquista perhaps in the future.
Zeno had plenty of his own troubles during first years of his reign. He actually had to besiege and retake his own capital in August 476. He also faced some issues due to his Isaurian origins, which sparked an early revolt. While Orestes was deposing Nepos, Zeno was busy with his own rebellion. Perhaps he simply felt uncertain with his own political situation to actually step in and assist. Keep in mind at that point ERE already intervened plenty of times, West was just a drain on resources and it wouldn't help to resolve it's deep rooted issues.
The optimal timeline
cool video really interesting
The Fall of Rome: A Novel of a World Lost: Ford, Michael Curtis, features that stupid Orestes. Entertaining.
HAVE YOU EVER READ THE NOVEL least Darkness Fall by L. Sprague DeCampe WHERE Martin Padway defeats Justinian reconquest. in came out in 1940 and I BOUGHT IN 1964 WHE IT WAS REPUBLISHED IN PAPERBACK.
The "what-if" of History...
While nice, I think that your view is far too positive. Romans are experts at starting civil wars. They would've eventually started yet another in the West again. And would even Justinian and Justin I. have ascended to the imperial purple if Italy had survived?
Once in a ck2 mod I defeated odoacer as Romulus and then Italy descended into civil war almost immediately
@@njb1126 The mod is called "when the world stopped making sense" if you guys are wondering
Anyone else picturing a Dovahhatty version of this? He would've been pretty happy I think
Damn disease, deciding the fate of human history. - John Green
Honorius and Arcadius, what was Theodosius thinking? Same as Marcus Aurelius I suppose.
Was the ostrogothic kingdom a vassal state to constantinople like Odoacer's kingdom?
I think they issued coins in the eastern emperor's image. As a form of recognition of his power. The Roman empire got Prestige and the barbarians kingdoms were left to conduct their own affairs.
Yes
I miss one, maybe a detail, maybe an important elemenet, in this timeline: the role of Syagrius in (Lutecian=Parisian) Gaul, the ever last Roman ruler in the West. How could he contribute to the events? Please, would you think of it?
@Maiorianus could you make videos later about, what would have happened if the kingdom of soissons restores the western Roman empire and then reunifies the 2 Romans? and also of, what would have happened if Julian the apostate did not die, and restored Greco-Roman Hellenism?
love it 👻💖🐸
I have a feeling that Justinian would have found another causus belli to invade Italy. He was very ambitious, and after the suppression of the Nika riots, demonstrated a willingness to spill Roman blood.
I have another sugestion ,what if Belisarius accepted the WRE crown by the ostrogoths??
Do a Majorian restores the western empire
This would make a good Attila Total War mod
Julius Nepos gains the respect of Odoacer who decides to support Julius Nepos over the Eastern Roman Emperor. Thus, Julius Nepos regain Italy as a joint Empire consisting of Julius Nepos as the Senior Emperor and Odoacer as the Junior Emperor. Julius Nepos takes charge of ruling the Western Roman Empire while Odoacer takes charge of running the armies and defeating the enemies of the Empire, which includes not just internal enemies that are supported by Eastern Emperor Zeno but also the Burgundians, Vandals, Rugii, Ostrogoths and the Visigoths. Controlling land from Italy to the Northern and Central Balkans, including the interior from the Ostrogoths, modern Austria from the Rugii, the Italian Islands or Western Mediterranean Islands that were controlled by the Vandals, and modern Southern France and Switzerland from the Burgundians and Visigoths. Even finding union with the Realm of Syagrius rather than needing to shed further blood as both Syagrius and Julius Nepos were Romans surrounded by hostile Barbarian Kingdoms and the Apathetic if not outright Antagonistic Eastern Roman Empire.
This is a great video of alternate history! I just have to disagree with one point - and that is where you said that Western Romania's legacy would be remembered as "Byzantine". In the first place, there would probably be no such name because Byzantium was coined by the Western Latin Kingdoms who wanted to usurp the Roman title by calling themselves Kings of the Romans (when in fact that idea was only abstract). I think both the West and the East would have hold on to their Roman legacy and would have created a single modern Roman nation-state called Romania.
Alternative history on Maxentius when?
Love the much neglected Late Roman Empire alternate histories.
Dammit Leo you had ONE job
Wouldn't the survival of roman authority in Italy have primarily depended on the successful removal of the germanic peoples who were strong enough to demand a third of all Italian territory?
I really love how you pronounce the names correctly
Do you ever think what would have changed if Tiberius made Germania a roman provnice after the germanic wars? How it would have changed history and how it could have changed the western empire fate, what they could have done with all that man power and slaves with there resources i suppose there would be quite a number of revolts but theres no doubt that it would have changed the corse of hiatory.
Hello good Sir, yes I agree with you. There was a real chance to make Germania a province and Tiberius missed this excellent opportunity imho, out of jealousy against Germanicus, and possibly also simply not realizing the vast potential of that land.
A good chunk of the germanic tribes that would later cause so much trouble for Rome, would have been subjugated already quite early, which would have proven invaluable in my opinion 400 years later, in the great migrations.
Sure it would have been difficult to maintain control over the rebellious tribes, but I think it would have been possible. The world would surely look different now, in that timeline. I have planned anyways to make a video about that scenario :)
I don't see how the Arabs would be unable to take Syria, given it was mostly the West that depended on the East. And if they were that weak and unable to take Syria, how would they take Spain? I'm sure that taking Syria would be the priority. Also, not a lot of natural borders to protect Syria, unlike the Taurus Mountains shielding Anatolia.
He could've just named his channel "F#&k Ricimer" and left everything else the same. I can't say I blame him though, Majorian was a great loss. To me, he's similar to Julian or Arbogast, in that, I find myself rooting for them every time even though I know how the story ends.
Isn't he the guy from Markath that sents goon after you?
The Italian state would just be called Rome. The big differences is where we see ruins today. It would be still very splendorous in comparison. I think England still happens with William the Conqueror. Which means most of France and England would still be there and perhaps Spain as we even known it today would still be there, but where Italy was divided the whole medieval period in our time their time united. If anything holding onto Carthage I think would have been a lesson learned. So they would have held that. Carthage is never wiped off the map as far as cities and might even say would look amazing today if this timeline happened. The biggest issue is going into the enlightenment period. How does the Western Roman Empire and Eastern Empire work following? Do we see them duke it out or fall into revolutions to make them into republics?
I’m watching this because I recently found out I’m 2 percent Italian and 2 percent balken in my dna test and I’m wondering if I could possibly be related to a distant ancestor that lived in the western roman empire
Cursed Aurelian
Roman Empire 2: Neposic Boogaloo
More alt history pls
Is this somehow related to the term nepotism? Great video anyway
It is interesting to think of
I was thinking of it, as well. But I don't think so, after all. Nepos is rather just a name which has its meaning (like Naso, Caligula or Caracalla, for example), while the term of nepotism is secondary.
What if… Severus Alexander ruled longer?
Your (plausible) idea that the East would have reconquered North Africa for the West could also be the source of a kind of schism between the two halves, but less amicable than IRL. The East could decide to administer North Africa, not because it wants to grab land, but because it (demonstrably) is the more stable and successful entity, so "at least for a transition period" it would do so. It's still the premier naval power compared to the West, so there's not much the West could do (not to fight them, at this point, but to preempt them from establishing facts on the ground via having enough traffic and sending men there). I still think Iberia would be reconquered and divided exactly like you outlined, with the north falling to the West because it's honestly overextension to try to administer that from Constantinople as well.
Then, over the decades to centuries the tensions could rise so there could be the first interstate war between the two halves, i.e. where no side has interest in the other's internal politics anymore (like you would with a civil war), they purely care about the actual land that is in dispute. Obviously, both sides would claim to represent the "real" Rome, even though unlike during the civil war eras, there'd be no moves taken to actually implement this idea. I am pretty sure Eastern Rome would be known as just "Greek Empire" in Western history if this happened, or perhaps "[some guy's name] Empire", like "Justinian Empire" (Justinian standing for the dynasty, like with the Ottomans).
They wouldn't be given the honor to be regarded as a true permutation of Rome.
Really Leo I Was The Last Emperor To Try Restoure The Order of The Western Roman Empire.
What if Sygrius restored the Western Roman Empire though?
Please use Common Era (CE). AD is outdated.
Why
How is AD outdated?
The fall is unavoidable if Rome have just established a centralized government it might have the chance. But the empire was just that it reached its limit, traitors, corruption, divided empire, war with multiple border... It's rotting to its core 😢😢 it's infected with incurable disease.
Kinda doubt the Arabs would've been able to take Hispania from the western Romans, and the Ostrogoths being defeated by disunited Slavic tribes
With Thracian and Illyrian culture survive in Middle Ages in this timelines, without Slavs haven’t gradually assimilated them. The Slavs would most likely not be the new identity to Eastern Roman empire and became more hostile and break away, and try to take the city with desires, Constantinople. But with western Roman empire help, the Bulgarian and other slaves like Serb, Croats carantanians and other from Illyria would become possible be a forgotten tribals identity. Like pechenegs another forgotten enemy’s of Eastern Roman Empire/ Byzantine Empire. these warrior like people of Thracian and Illyrian, will might survive until possibly present day form. Probably use as military recruitment.
In my opinion, Rome had no chances to survive. Even if they won Adrianople or not destroyed themselves in Frigidus, or managed secured the Rhine Frontier, or managed to hold Carthage from Vandals, or won the battle of Carthagena and Majorian conquered Africa, or he wasn't killed by ricimer (yes with small r) and conquered Africa in his second campaign, or Anthemius won the Cape Bon and reconquered Africa, or Nepos restored the empire, or Theodoric after unifiing with Visigoths reconquered Vandals and Aquitane and proclaimed himself an Emperor like Charlemagne did, or Belisarius and Narses managed to cooperate and defeat the Ostrogoths in the early phase of Gothic wars without the destruction of Italy, or Maurice wasn't killed by Phocas, defeated Langobards and probably also Visigoths, the Rome as a civilized state would always have fallen or survived as a militarized medieval rump state similar to BYZANTINE (not Roman) Empire.
Open up a time portal and let Caesar rebuild the Empire..
What are the differences between the different kinds of Goths? I see there were regular Goths, and then there are also Ostrogoths and Visigoths. Is it just names that indicate what lands they inhabited?
Visigoths = Western Goths
Ostrogoths = Eastern Goths
@@septimiusseverus343 ok. Thanks for sharing those information nuggets. What about the plain Goths? is it for Central Goths?
@@anthonydefex no it's just the word they used before they split/to address them as a group
@@anthonydefex the only other goths were in Crimea
Last hope: Theodoric The Chad
Goddamn the border gore at the 13 minute mark
In the off chance you're free to respond why did Romulus Augustulus's dad put him on the throne and not claim it for himself? Did he not have the right birth while his kid did?
لا توجد ترجمه عربية ؟😢😢