My wife and I were on a weekend trip in Vegas last year for a concert and decided to escape the heat and filth for the day and went up to Utah, stumbled on Modern Warriors and it’s a nice shop. PS Admin gave you and hop a quick shout out on his second channel, I commented and told him to do a collaboration and he said he would if you will so there you go.
There's always some form of civil unrest from the typical civil unrest types. Nobody will do anything about it because those civil unrest types have the ideological support of the dominant political party, the institutions, and the government. If you do, do something about it, even lawful self-defense, the government will criminally prosecute you, use a farce judicial process with a biased judge and jury to convict, and put you in prison for the rest of your life. It's all political.
@@frankthetank6558if you are exclusively shooting within 300 yards, sure, do it. If you would like to push past that or take low percentage shots within 300 LPVOs smoke the magnifier stack. An ACOG or ELCAN could even be argued as superior within 300. Marines were door kicking with a 20 inch M16 and an ACOG with no dot for months in IRAQ.
@@BrassFacts I had to pause before the video ended. I got to that bit and was like, “Welp. That’s embarrassing.” Ah well. Comment for the algo spirits.
@@MrMalicious5Yeah except the average American doesn’t have the budget to spend nearly an entire month of their income on an optic that they will use once or twice a month. If you’re in that tax bracket, good for you, but stop pretending like it’s financially feasible for the vast majority of people.
Assfacts are my favourite. And as far as LPVOs are concerned, get a PLXc. They are scary light and compact, and you can either get FFP or SFP with the nuclear eye laser surgery.
@@texasranger24 I already bought a Trijicon Credo HX 1-6 SFP which is also nuclear bright - it has the post style reticle discussed in this video for how to make nuclear bright red dot. I quite like the scope too, it's not very heavy (18oz?) excellent japanese glass, unobtrusive bezels, sub 1k price point, nice reticle... Can't really ask for much more from a 1-6.
PLXc for the win. “Day light bright” is an overrated non-essential (IMHO). When I grab my riffle and start shooting, I usually don’t even turn on the illumination unless it’s right at sunrise or sunset. Even then, it’s never on at 100%.
@@GldenRetrieverI'm confused what you are saying. Are you saying people who buy a 2-10 with a red dot do it because they can't afford a 1-10? Or they buy a 1-10 because they can't afford a 2-10 with a red dot?
honestly, if you're gonna put a one to 10 on your gun, you might as well just have a red dot and a 3 to 12. The $400 3-12x scope I have on my deer Rifle is probably better glass quality than most of these one to 10 scopes. People are dropping insane money on. it has a BDC and an illuminated radical and worked well enough to tag Bambi across a cornfield at dusk at 350 yards with a 6.5. I think it's quite literally a works for me
Thank you highlighting the trade offs between scopes. I didn’t realize that most LVPOs use a “reducer” (wrong word) to get their 1x, but it makes sense. Magnifying 3 times is easy, 4 times not so tough, but by the time the multiplier is 8 times there are so many trade offs in optical quality, etc. unless you have buckets of money to throw at the problem. Personally I prefer clear, bright optics with a forgiving eye box and light weight first. That’s the “steak” and everything else (except reticle) is “sizzle”.
Modern Warriors is just down the street from me and I don’t know of any physical store that regularly stocks Night Vision Equipment and you can actually walk into the store and pick up anything on their walls and cases. Wide suppressor selection you can pickup and actually ask the staff questions about. Very large classroom for when they do classes ranging from CCW all the way to long range rifle courses.
I just got a Monstrum panzer 1-10x.ffp . I leave it and 1.5x or 2x and it's and ok scope. Ffp the dots small. But it has long etched lines in 1x that I use for QCC
My favorite setup is my primary arms 1-8 Plx-C with a piggyback red dot. My red dot is really the primary optic, as I use it the most. But I can take shots to 400 m with ease. Extremely versatile and comfortable setup.
last gen primary arms, the one with just the chevron and nothing else, like $150 WITH a mount? now that's value, the costco hotdog of LPVOs, love this thing
I got my first LPVO a couple months ago. I went budget to test the waters before really investing into something nice. This economy really really sucks for me lol. I got a Monstrum Banshee SFP 1-6x with the BDC reticle for my 16" 5.56. It was 130 bucks on amazon and after doing extensive research on youtube for it and shooting it a few times I can say its quite nice and is no where near garbage. The glass is surprisingly very clear at 6x but it isn't quite daylight bright. The red seems to do better in the daylight than the green which I thought was odd since green is usually brighter. The 1x is pretty solid but I don't have much expereince with high quality LPVOs to compare to but its definitely not a 1.5x. I haven't testied the effectiveness of the BDC but I know the BDC is set up for a 16" 5.56 so thats why I got it. I'm looking to upgrade to maybe a primary arms GLX 1-10x FFP someday.
As with most things, there are exceptions to every rule, which you even acknowledge at the end. Also, I appreciate that this video is intended to be a rough overview, so getting lost in the weeds about exceptions or outliers would just add confusion and detract from the whole point. With that said, I find it interesting that you specifically call out the 1-10 Credo as bad, when it really doesn't have any of the drawbacks you list and are typically associated with 1-10's. It has an excellent 1x (identical reticle) and even larger FOV than your beloved 1-6 Credo, barely heavier than many "light" 1-6's, including the Credo, nor is the street price out of line with many of the go too LPVO recommendations. Roll in Trijicon glass, durability, and switchgear and I think they actually knocked it out of the park. Sure the eyebox can get a little cozy at 10x but your only ever going to use that in a stabilized position to begin with and there's also a very simple solution; just twist the dial back down to 6x... The beauty of features is that they are there when you need them but you can also just choose not to use them, particularly if they don't cost that much in terms of weight, money, or other compromise. I have to wonder if you've had the chance to actually get behind one yet and if not, I would encourage you to take a look. Especially in light if how highly you (and I) regard their 1-6.
It's a crying shame Steiner turned into scalping crooks..... The steiner p4xi is the best LPVO ever made for the 5.56 cartridge imo..... But at its new price it just ain't worth it.... It's 1x is so flat and crystal clear, amazing eyebox, daylight bright reticle that's so bright that I've never had to use max setting out in direct sunlight while having an amazing 4x that can easily be used out to 500 yards. My only complaint, other than it's new price of course is that when shooting at 200+ yards both the x & y axis reticle continuation is a bit thick but that thick reticle also really helps with drawing your eyes quickly to center.
@Gchang54 That is insane I wouldn't even be able to see the target like a tiny spec on the optic. You guys are something else I can go between targets 50-300yds pretty easily after 300 it gets tricky with drop and seeing the target.
Just wanted to say I checked out Modern Warriors while running an errand out in St George and they really are a great gun store. Prices are pretty fair for an LGS and aren't gouged/scalped like in many places. Different mounts and suppressors to try out was pretty neat. Being able to molest a SCAR 6.5CM, H&K USC, and a Q Fix at their store let me reaffirm how much I hated those things. Super cool staff too. My only gripe is that the storefront is more flash than stock, most of their items on display are the flashy fancy nitride color guns or that weird skew of P365.
I went back to the exps3 and g33 because I realized that LVPOs were really more capability than I personally need and I like having the NV performance better than having to use a piggy back RMR
Can you follow this up with a coordinated why LPVOs suck video with Hop so we can get some discounts? Just pick the best budget GPR lpvo and trash talk it please!
I’ve owned quite a few entry level lpvo’s SE, Tango MSR, Primary arms, I’m saving up for a ffp vuduu, the donator death at 1x and then disappearing and the bdc being in the center is amazing. I’m still holding off because I’ve become very comfortable using a red dot on top for close. I’ve thought about trying the msr 1-10 ffp, or the PA 1-8 compact
Ive got the PA SLx 1-8 FFP its decent enough if 100% true 1x isnt a deal breaker and bonus it doesnt weigh 24ozs either I need to upgrade to the PLxC but HMT won the coin toss Good video Now back to dumping on LPVOs until theyre popular again
After getting my Razor HD 1-6, I opted for a RD plus magnifier. Being able to ditch the magnifier and save weight just made more sense to me, given my circumstances.
I recommend buying a Vector optics($100) S-6 1-6,fiber. Just too see if you like an LPVO on your gun at all.then find a good one you like. That way you don’t buy an expensive one and find out you don’t like the style of optic.
Based I don't know why all guntubers turn down budget optics. Lower end optics are made in China anyway. Vector optics make 100ish$ lpvo or Red dot magn combo Or 50sh$ red dots. As long as its holds zero its viable.
The thing I try to keep in my head when optics shopping is that there is no free lunch, everything is a tradeoff. My strategy has become: figure out what the rifle is good at, and then my the optic that makes it better at that thing.
I’m a fan of BDC ret. I shoot my guns enough so I know how the scope works with my ammo. 1-6 LPVO is awesome for my AR’s and my AK’s, I pretty much set them up for 0-300 yards.
For me the minimum is a 1-8 with a griffin reticle unless you're on a budget then a burris rt6 served me well for many years. The slx I've got on my main rifle has been great in my area and lighting conditions and has gotten me hits out to 927 with 73grain eldm loads. If I had the money I'd get the plx-c just because it's so much lighter. Great video as always and I feel your pain with the seasonal shit I've been fighting a headache and watery eyes for about 2 weeks here in the Ohio River Valley
One more thing to point out. All things considered. SFP tends to be significantly lighter weight. Won’t matter in big magnifications but if you go for 1-4 or 1-6. That usually means a lighter rifle and that quarter pound could matter
Ive been considering going with a 2x or 3x minimum mag since I’ve been using a red dot for clore range. I think I could save some money and possibly weight by going that route.
I was told Schmidt and Bender reticles are a little on the outdated side of things, so sometimes paying more doesn't net you exactly what you're looking for. I suppose that is why you brought up the March LPVO, obviously.
I'm one minute into the video and already want to say a 1-10X is useful if you live in an area that's all farmland and your slightline is either 100 yards to the closest treeline or it's 2 miles across perfectly flat empty cornfields with no in between.
Hey BF… Might be difficult to do, given your unique circumstances, but I got a video idea for you… Tips on ways for us avg joe’s to work towards affording higher end (i.e. more expensive tier) optics. I make ok money, I want nice shit, but it’s hard to justify spending more than $400 on an optic when money’s gotta be spent elsewhere. Thanks, NovaGroup hands down my fav guntubers!
I can, it mostly boils down being okay with what you got. and slowly working your way up. Thats what I was doing when I could only had about 150 -200 bucks on month on my entire "free" money that wasn't locked up something like rent. But If you cannot save up 400 bucks reasonably, then don't. Live comes first.
@@BrassFacts thanks for the reply. Thanks to you and C_Does I’m currently in the Sig MSR 1-6x and the Strike Eagle 1-6x (not the 1-8) in a 16” GPR. Trying to figure out what to step up to next. The PST gen 2 is too heavy for my SAWC. If you got a couple other recs pls share much appreciated sir!
what did you end up going with? i put a primary arms nova on mine just because it seemed super solid for the price and i figured any lpvo is better than irons
If one is going to rely on a red dot for 1x on a magnification oriented LPVO, wouldn't it make sense to instead use a scope that isn't compromised for 1x and has a feature set better suited for shooting at distance? The Nightforce NXS 2.5-10 only weighs ~20 oz. and has a 42mm objective and parallax adjustment, with the downside of being SFP. The NF NX8 2.5-20x and Schmidt & Bender PM II Ultra Short 5-20x are half a pound heavier, but are FFP and feature a much higher top end as well as 50mm objectives. At 12 inches or less, all three are not much longer than most LPVOs either.
I love buying a lpvo, selling it for a red dot and mag, sell that, get an lpvo again, and then finally get another red dot and mag to ultimately sell again
I cycle between believing lpvo are best and switching between a red dot and acog via qd. Currently on the acog grind but sure to go back to lpvo once i start competition shooting again
I’d separate them into 3 categories: Short range biased (1-6 with the fire dot) Long range biased (1-10 like the eotech) All purpose (1-8 like the NF 1-8 or the vortex 1-10).
I can see it. But personally because the Long range and all purpose category are so close, I split them down the middle. AKA a 1-8x credo is basically just as good for long range as a 1-10x razor. In some ways better.
So there are a few things I might mention when it comes to dealing with allergies. Personally I'm a big fan of Cetrizine 10mg, (Zyrtec) or Loratadine (Claratin) 10mg. I usually have to use one or sometimes both of these anti-histamines to deal with seasonal allergies. You may want to get the -D variant, which contains a decongestant, but personally I tend to find that causes dry nose and sinus infections long term. Afrin, a common nasal spray really helps relieve the inflammation of the nasal mucosa that gives you that stuffy headed feeling, however use of afrin and a number of these types of chemicals is usually limited to a few days at a time, but sometimes it can be enough to relieve major symptoms. I really hope you feel better man. I know that shit is rough.
I take Sudafed (and i've tried basically everything else) daily, and it really only makes a slight dent. Hop things i need to surgically remove my sinus
@@BrassFacts Luke from TOGR had the sinus surgery a few years ago and swears by it. My allergies come and go, and tend to be well managed with Zyrtec occasionally with afrin. Another option might be allergy shots. Hope you feel better soon.
i reallllly wish someone ( primary arms) would make a actually compact 1-4 lpvo. take the 1-8 plx-c concept, but do SFP and 1-4 with a wide, short main tube. essentially a better replacement for a red dot- magnifier set that doesn't compromise so much on weight (SWC) but gives you an etched reticle with bdc and better glass clarity at 4x( and 1x if you have the 'stigmatism)
Picked up a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8 FFP for less than 500 a while back. I cannot find a better FFP LPVO for that price. Glass quality is better than the SFP Strike Eagles as well as quarter MOA adjustments on turrets. I have seen it for as low as 400. Its not a Nightforce obviously but like I said, name a better illuminated FFP LPVO in the 400-600 range. The only ones that Ive seen that are better, were not illuminated.
@@breckfreeride i noticed that by setting it to about 1.3x instead of the 1x, it helps in close quarters when used as a red dot with both eyes open. Usually the cheaper scopes dont have that super clear 1x without edge disruption but like I said, setting it to 1.3x helped alot.
March FX 1.5-15x42mm DFP is my go to LPVO currently. messed with all the different styles (1-6/8/10, ffp/sfp, fiber/etched, etc) and for me, I can deal with the subpar "1x" in order to gain that 50-250+% max magnification. You have a pretty decent eyebox with minimal eye relief shrinking going to 15x and it doesn't darken all that much thanks to the 42mm objective. Dual Focal Plane gives you the nice "1" like most 1-6 SFPs with a daylight visible dot and thick posts, while gaining a very usable, fast, and easy Christmas tree when you bump into the FFP. It also weighs less and is shorter than some LPVOs like the Trijicon credo 1-8. I also find the 1.5x to be pretty flat. As for equally large plate of compromises you get... Tight parallax due to the 10 power factor in a short body. Can't get it as low as an LPVO (not an issue on ARs and skyscraper gang). It isn't daylight bright (3/10 on the nova scale). A steep 24-30oo price tag. A non expedient warranty experiance (small overseas shop. slower than Kahles/Swaro). The throw lever is one feature I really karen over and the March is tolerable. Its a smidge stiffer than a K16I and Credo 1-8, but you can still somewhat effortlessly spin it british style (with the pinky), which easily beats out anything PA, Vortex, Swampfox, etc puts out. How I view it, you can train to get good with the 1.5x at close range, but there's nothing you can do to increase your natural magnification for when you just want to squeeze that last little bit of data from what you are looking at and for some people (like me), my eyes are worse than any premium lens I've looked through, which led me to dump my K16I for a swampfox arrowhead 1-10 lol as I could see better with it. With the march, I get the best (and then some) of both worlds.
I need an LPVO with a strong diopter, +-3 preferably. My eyes suck and if I can't see the reticle without my glasses then there's no point over a dot/magnifier.
LPVOs are great for SPRs. Good enough reticle and magnification to do work with 5.56 in its effective range, meh enough 1x to do close-in work if you HAVE to. Coming from a dude with an SPR, I wouldn’t buy one again. I set one up to check a box I thought needed to be checked…but doesn’t. Just stick to general purpose. But if you’ve already goofed and bought an 18” upper and don’t want to sell it, yes put a 1-10x on. Not a SFP 1-6x. Reticle is too rudimentary for longe range, BDC is calibrated for a certain combo of round going a certain velocity that you may not have, holdovers only out to about 600, and needs to be on 6x to work. To retain that BDC reticle if you want it just sacrifice the 2x for the increased field of view, durability, no-leveling needed, lighter package ACOG. Add a dot on top that gives you all the pros of a skyscraper mounted dot on a CQB gun (NODs and gas mask use, etc) all at probably less than the price of a LPVO and boom, way better deal. A good general purpose rifle has a red dot/magnifier or an ACOG/red dot. This is the way.
Yeah this tracks with how I went about getting an LPVO for my AR, I was looking more general purpose and went SFP 1-6x, it's got a good 1x, a nice 6x, eyebox could be a bit better but light transmission is good, it's a vortex, holds zero, it does what I need it to do and then some. I could have gone with RDS + Magnifier but I want a bit more control for target identification. For my G3 though I'm picking up a MPVO because .308 goes the distance and I want it to be a DMR, it is not a GPR with that bulk. But you are correct, these are guidelines, and good ones at that, and 100% if you're in the market for a scope, go dig through C_DOES stuff, that's how I landed on the LPVO I have and I love the damn thing.
For my SFP 1-6x, my 3x drops and 6x drops are so close, it doesn't matter until I try to use the 300 yard hash mark. It works well, but I still REALLY want a PLXc.
The credo hx 1-6 SFP 223bdc is a real sleeper. same with the delta stryker hd 1-6. I prefer them over the gen2Es and anything cheaper. maybe not a K16I 3gr, but for half that? Absolutely.
Oh also, sorry this might sound weird, but if you are ever interested in getting access to some really high altitude larping space up in Wanship, Utah (up above park city), feel free to let me know or message me or whatever. You'd have to run suppressors in most of the spaces that I'm talking about, since the few people who live up there are a lil touchy about 5.56 in some parts of the canyon, because of the reverberation, but you already do that anyway so who cares haha
Can you look at the leatherwood optics? There proven Vietnam sniper Tec. But there is no videos other than there’s… I’m highly drawn to there cam system, if it makes since to you too
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
My wife and I were on a weekend trip in Vegas last year for a concert and decided to escape the heat and filth for the day and went up to Utah, stumbled on Modern Warriors and it’s a nice shop. PS Admin gave you and hop a quick shout out on his second channel, I commented and told him to do a collaboration and he said he would if you will so there you go.
Yeah I need that collab
We need this collab
We need this.... Do it...
Do. It!
Due it
Brass facts: “I train my body and mind to prepare for civil unrest”
Also Brass facts: “ cough, tree sex gives me the sniffles”
There's always some form of civil unrest from the typical civil unrest types. Nobody will do anything about it because those civil unrest types have the ideological support of the dominant political party, the institutions, and the government. If you do, do something about it, even lawful self-defense, the government will criminally prosecute you, use a farce judicial process with a biased judge and jury to convict, and put you in prison for the rest of your life. It's all political.
To his credit, the tree sex may slow him down but it doesn't stop him.
Imagine dying during the Big Igloo because some tree sex screwed you over.
bro is under a bio attack untill fall
I too live in the salt lake valley, can confirm. Tis miserable
6:28 POV: your lesbian aunt catcalling an older woman after brunch
Pack it in folks, this one wins.
Just traded an LPVO for a red dot…knowing full well that I’ll be buying an LPVO again in the future.
Right there with you. Ugh. It’s a vicious cycle.
Why not just keep it
Just get a aim point m4s with a x3 mag on quick detach so you never have to buy anything again except batteries!
Or 6x… do you
@@frankthetank6558if you are exclusively shooting within 300 yards, sure, do it. If you would like to push past that or take low percentage shots within 300 LPVOs smoke the magnifier stack. An ACOG or ELCAN could even be argued as superior within 300. Marines were door kicking with a 20 inch M16 and an ACOG with no dot for months in IRAQ.
The C_Does Mention is top tier
I want a Brass Facts LPVO choice award video. Just ones you'd personally buy in various categories.
I did mention that I would do that in this video.
As of this time, video is completed. Should come out in a month
@@BrassFacts I had to pause before the video ended. I got to that bit and was like, “Welp. That’s embarrassing.” Ah well. Comment for the algo spirits.
@@BrassFactscan we get a heads up on this list so we can buy them before they suddenly go out of stock everywhere 😂
@@BrassFactsAny ETA about the rifle-caliber SASS video?
I've been researching the crap out of LPVO's. The rabbit hole is real. Thanks for helping solidifying my thoughts and choice.
Let me break it down for you. Get an ATACR 1-8, Kahles 1-8 Gen 2, or a Vortex 1-6 Razor E. Literally don't bother with anything else.
@@MrMalicious5Yeah except the average American doesn’t have the budget to spend nearly an entire month of their income on an optic that they will use once or twice a month. If you’re in that tax bracket, good for you, but stop pretending like it’s financially feasible for the vast majority of people.
@@GhiIIie Razors regularly pop up for 1000. If that's too rich for your blood LPVO's are not for you unless you're happy with mediocrity.
@@GhiIIie Razor goes on sale for around 1000 all the time. If that’s too much you’re in the wrong game.
I'm watching this through an lvpo. :-D
What lpvo?
I was...UNTIL THE EXIT PUPIL GOT ME!!!
It’s like the pirates code “they’re more like guidelines anyway”
someone got it.
Assfacts are my favourite.
And as far as LPVOs are concerned, get a PLXc. They are scary light and compact, and you can either get FFP or SFP with the nuclear eye laser surgery.
I wanted to like the PLXC but lack of true daylight bright illumination killed it for me.
@@SPIRIT-117 get the new SFP one with the Nova. It is nuclear bright. Seriously.
@@texasranger24 I already bought a Trijicon Credo HX 1-6 SFP which is also nuclear bright - it has the post style reticle discussed in this video for how to make nuclear bright red dot.
I quite like the scope too, it's not very heavy (18oz?) excellent japanese glass, unobtrusive bezels, sub 1k price point, nice reticle... Can't really ask for much more from a 1-6.
PLXc for the win. “Day light bright” is an overrated non-essential (IMHO). When I grab my riffle and start shooting, I usually don’t even turn on the illumination unless it’s right at sunrise or sunset. Even then, it’s never on at 100%.
The Liver King shooting segment went really well, Brock.
While not as inventive as other videos in this genre, "LVPO Buyers Guide" is not without some pedestrian charm, quaint choreography and sincere
LPVO Buyer’s Guide: Don’t
Joking aside looking forward to the video
lmao. Don't hurt my boi like that.
LPVO Buyer’s Guide: buy a cheaper used scope to see if you like the idea in your actual use case
This week on Glass Facts:
assglassfacts.
Grass facts
I'm convinced anyone who wants a 1-10 LPVO, actually wants a 2-10 or 3-12 or whatever with a red dot and just doesn't realize it.
That's what people who choose to not afford good optics say.
@@GldenRetrieverI'm confused what you are saying. Are you saying people who buy a 2-10 with a red dot do it because they can't afford a 1-10? Or they buy a 1-10 because they can't afford a 2-10 with a red dot?
@@GldenRetriever
A. 1-10x
B. Good optic
Choose one
What do you think would be the best 3-12 shtf realiable scope for a ar15 rifle ?
Did the boomers have it right with the 3-9x?
10:38 "that 4MM makes all the difference.... ask your wife"
Damn!
honestly, if you're gonna put a one to 10 on your gun, you might as well just have a red dot and a 3 to 12. The $400 3-12x scope I have on my deer Rifle is probably better glass quality than most of these one to 10 scopes. People are dropping insane money on.
it has a BDC and an illuminated radical and worked well enough to tag Bambi across a cornfield at dusk at 350 yards with a 6.5. I think it's quite literally a works for me
Thank you highlighting the trade offs between scopes. I didn’t realize that most LVPOs use a “reducer” (wrong word) to get their 1x, but it makes sense. Magnifying 3 times is easy, 4 times not so tough, but by the time the multiplier is 8 times there are so many trade offs in optical quality, etc. unless you have buckets of money to throw at the problem.
Personally I prefer clear, bright optics with a forgiving eye box and light weight first. That’s the “steak” and everything else (except reticle) is “sizzle”.
The "ask your wife" thrown in there so sneakily was devious
Modern Warriors is just down the street from me and I don’t know of any physical store that regularly stocks Night Vision Equipment and you can actually walk into the store and pick up anything on their walls and cases. Wide suppressor selection you can pickup and actually ask the staff questions about. Very large classroom for when they do classes ranging from CCW all the way to long range rifle courses.
I’m just now looking to get into the LPVO game with a strict budget so this is a great time for this to be uploaded.
I just got a Monstrum panzer 1-10x.ffp . I leave it and 1.5x or 2x and it's and ok scope. Ffp the dots small. But it has long etched lines in 1x that I use for QCC
“They’re more like…guidelines anyway.” Also, kilt in da pollen fr
The adhd break in the middle as much appreciated thank you
Thanks for the Primer on the LPVO scopes. It will make more sense when we get to see your recommendations for each of the categories.
My favorite setup is my primary arms 1-8 Plx-C with a piggyback red dot. My red dot is really the primary optic, as I use it the most. But I can take shots to 400 m with ease. Extremely versatile and comfortable setup.
What mount are you using for that setup?
One of my favorite LPVOs is the strike eagle 1-4 vortex. You can find them from time to time for $120. Super clear image. Sharp. Lightweight.
last gen primary arms, the one with just the chevron and nothing else, like $150 WITH a mount? now that's value, the costco hotdog of LPVOs, love this thing
I’m crazy an I like to give you money an we’d all love a top 5 list of optics from assfacts
3 videos from now it'll drop.
I got my first LPVO a couple months ago. I went budget to test the waters before really investing into something nice. This economy really really sucks for me lol. I got a Monstrum Banshee SFP 1-6x with the BDC reticle for my 16" 5.56. It was 130 bucks on amazon and after doing extensive research on youtube for it and shooting it a few times I can say its quite nice and is no where near garbage. The glass is surprisingly very clear at 6x but it isn't quite daylight bright. The red seems to do better in the daylight than the green which I thought was odd since green is usually brighter. The 1x is pretty solid but I don't have much expereince with high quality LPVOs to compare to but its definitely not a 1.5x. I haven't testied the effectiveness of the BDC but I know the BDC is set up for a 16" 5.56 so thats why I got it. I'm looking to upgrade to maybe a primary arms GLX 1-10x FFP someday.
What round is it for? M193?
As with most things, there are exceptions to every rule, which you even acknowledge at the end. Also, I appreciate that this video is intended to be a rough overview, so getting lost in the weeds about exceptions or outliers would just add confusion and detract from the whole point. With that said, I find it interesting that you specifically call out the 1-10 Credo as bad, when it really doesn't have any of the drawbacks you list and are typically associated with 1-10's. It has an excellent 1x (identical reticle) and even larger FOV than your beloved 1-6 Credo, barely heavier than many "light" 1-6's, including the Credo, nor is the street price out of line with many of the go too LPVO recommendations. Roll in Trijicon glass, durability, and switchgear and I think they actually knocked it out of the park. Sure the eyebox can get a little cozy at 10x but your only ever going to use that in a stabilized position to begin with and there's also a very simple solution; just twist the dial back down to 6x... The beauty of features is that they are there when you need them but you can also just choose not to use them, particularly if they don't cost that much in terms of weight, money, or other compromise. I have to wonder if you've had the chance to actually get behind one yet and if not, I would encourage you to take a look. Especially in light if how highly you (and I) regard their 1-6.
Went from a 10.5 rd set up to a 14.5 with a viper 1-6 and It’s exactly what I wanted but the weight being the only real downside I see.
It's a crying shame Steiner turned into scalping crooks..... The steiner p4xi is the best LPVO ever made for the 5.56 cartridge imo..... But at its new price it just ain't worth it.... It's 1x is so flat and crystal clear, amazing eyebox, daylight bright reticle that's so bright that I've never had to use max setting out in direct sunlight while having an amazing 4x that can easily be used out to 500 yards. My only complaint, other than it's new price of course is that when shooting at 200+ yards both the x & y axis reticle continuation is a bit thick but that thick reticle also really helps with drawing your eyes quickly to center.
I can barely see a target at 400 with 5x you can go out to 500 with 4x? Seems so tough to see!
@@mc4056I use a 4x to ring out 600m torso sized targets(usually my limit)
@Gchang54 That is insane I wouldn't even be able to see the target like a tiny spec on the optic. You guys are something else I can go between targets 50-300yds pretty easily after 300 it gets tricky with drop and seeing the target.
The Vector Optics line is hard to beat. The Continental line is crazy good.
Just wanted to say I checked out Modern Warriors while running an errand out in St George and they really are a great gun store. Prices are pretty fair for an LGS and aren't gouged/scalped like in many places. Different mounts and suppressors to try out was pretty neat. Being able to molest a SCAR 6.5CM, H&K USC, and a Q Fix at their store let me reaffirm how much I hated those things. Super cool staff too. My only gripe is that the storefront is more flash than stock, most of their items on display are the flashy fancy nitride color guns or that weird skew of P365.
I went back to the exps3 and g33 because I realized that LVPOs were really more capability than I personally need and I like having the NV performance better than having to use a piggy back RMR
Can you follow this up with a coordinated why LPVOs suck video with Hop so we can get some discounts? Just pick the best budget GPR lpvo and trash talk it please!
Just now I was looking at all the options for replacing my current LPVO and then I get the buzz telling me this was posted. Nice.
11:18 ahh the focus spell. Works every time fifty percent of the time!
I’ve owned quite a few entry level lpvo’s SE, Tango MSR, Primary arms, I’m saving up for a ffp vuduu, the donator death at 1x and then disappearing and the bdc being in the center is amazing. I’m still holding off because I’ve become very comfortable using a red dot on top for close. I’ve thought about trying the msr 1-10 ffp, or the PA 1-8 compact
Just ordered Burris RT-6 thru my work. It's got a great feature set
Ive got the PA SLx 1-8 FFP its decent enough if 100% true 1x isnt a deal breaker and bonus it doesnt weigh 24ozs either
I need to upgrade to the PLxC but HMT won the coin toss
Good video
Now back to dumping on LPVOs until theyre popular again
After getting my Razor HD 1-6, I opted for a RD plus magnifier. Being able to ditch the magnifier and save weight just made more sense to me, given my circumstances.
Red dot bright section of the video was awesome. I never understood why the vortex razors reticle looked the way it did & now I do.
I recommend buying a Vector optics($100) S-6 1-6,fiber. Just too see if you like an LPVO on your gun at all.then find a good one you like. That way you don’t buy an expensive one and find out you don’t like the style of optic.
Based
I don't know why all guntubers turn down budget optics. Lower end optics are made in China anyway.
Vector optics make 100ish$ lpvo or Red dot magn combo
Or 50sh$ red dots.
As long as its holds zero its viable.
I bought a razor gen 2 for my first lpvo. Goddam I love it. Fits perfect on my scar
The thing I try to keep in my head when optics shopping is that there is no free lunch, everything is a tradeoff. My strategy has become: figure out what the rifle is good at, and then my the optic that makes it better at that thing.
I’m a fan of BDC ret. I shoot my guns enough so I know how the scope works with my ammo. 1-6 LPVO is awesome for my AR’s and my AK’s, I pretty much set them up for 0-300 yards.
For me the minimum is a 1-8 with a griffin reticle unless you're on a budget then a burris rt6 served me well for many years. The slx I've got on my main rifle has been great in my area and lighting conditions and has gotten me hits out to 927 with 73grain eldm loads. If I had the money I'd get the plx-c just because it's so much lighter. Great video as always and I feel your pain with the seasonal shit I've been fighting a headache and watery eyes for about 2 weeks here in the Ohio River Valley
Best optic upgrade I got was PRK surgery.
Less failure points, better default NV capability, and no astigmatism.
6:25 critter detected, epic win
Can we take him home?!?
One more thing to point out. All things considered. SFP tends to be significantly lighter weight. Won’t matter in big magnifications but if you go for 1-4 or 1-6. That usually means a lighter rifle and that quarter pound could matter
Ive been considering going with a 2x or 3x minimum mag since I’ve been using a red dot for clore range. I think I could save some money and possibly weight by going that route.
I was told Schmidt and Bender reticles are a little on the outdated side of things, so sometimes paying more doesn't net you exactly what you're looking for. I suppose that is why you brought up the March LPVO, obviously.
I'm one minute into the video and already want to say a 1-10X is useful if you live in an area that's all farmland and your slightline is either 100 yards to the closest treeline or it's 2 miles across perfectly flat empty cornfields with no in between.
buy a 1-8x. 2x will not make the difference, and a 1-8x tends to be leagues better, and cheaper.
Hey BF…
Might be difficult to do, given your unique circumstances, but I got a video idea for you…
Tips on ways for us avg joe’s to work towards affording higher end (i.e. more expensive tier) optics.
I make ok money, I want nice shit, but it’s hard to justify spending more than $400 on an optic when money’s gotta be spent elsewhere.
Thanks, NovaGroup hands down my fav guntubers!
I can, it mostly boils down being okay with what you got. and slowly working your way up. Thats what I was doing when I could only had about 150 -200 bucks on month on my entire "free" money that wasn't locked up something like rent.
But If you cannot save up 400 bucks reasonably, then don't. Live comes first.
@@BrassFacts thanks for the reply. Thanks to you and C_Does I’m currently in the Sig MSR 1-6x and the Strike Eagle 1-6x (not the 1-8) in a 16” GPR. Trying to figure out what to step up to next. The PST gen 2 is too heavy for my SAWC. If you got a couple other recs pls share much appreciated sir!
I'm excited for the Brass Facts MPVO buyers guide!
that ask “Ask your wife” at 10:38 😂😂😂
this was exactly what i needed to evaluate which LPVO to put on a PTR91
what did you end up going with? i put a primary arms nova on mine just because it seemed super solid for the price and i figured any lpvo is better than irons
If one is going to rely on a red dot for 1x on a magnification oriented LPVO, wouldn't it make sense to instead use a scope that isn't compromised for 1x and has a feature set better suited for shooting at distance?
The Nightforce NXS 2.5-10 only weighs ~20 oz. and has a 42mm objective and parallax adjustment, with the downside of being SFP. The NF NX8 2.5-20x and Schmidt & Bender PM II Ultra Short 5-20x are half a pound heavier, but are FFP and feature a much higher top end as well as 50mm objectives. At 12 inches or less, all three are not much longer than most LPVOs either.
9:48 This is why I like this channel. Its all sciency and stuff.
Vortex Viper 1x6 SFP. Still the best. Red dot bright and very clear glass.
I'll take a p4xi over a viper any day of the week. It's a shame Steiner decided to turn into crooks...
I'm so impressed with my Viper 1-6
Except that it is a lead pig at 23 ounces.
Ass frags back at it again with a fantastic video that I learned a lot and am somehow more confused. Thanks.
I love buying a lpvo, selling it for a red dot and mag, sell that, get an lpvo again, and then finally get another red dot and mag to ultimately sell again
Looking forward to the followup videos on this subject. Good stuff
I cycle between believing lpvo are best and switching between a red dot and acog via qd.
Currently on the acog grind but sure to go back to lpvo once i start competition shooting again
Great vid as usual but I like the way you explain it. BTW what was that camo netting you were wearing? Was it a shroud or multiple pieces?
I’d separate them into 3 categories:
Short range biased (1-6 with the fire dot)
Long range biased (1-10 like the eotech)
All purpose (1-8 like the NF 1-8 or the vortex 1-10).
I can see it. But personally because the Long range and all purpose category are so close, I split them down the middle.
AKA a 1-8x credo is basically just as good for long range as a 1-10x razor. In some ways better.
The 1-8 credo and accupower are a steal for what they go for used (750-900). You just have to deal with the weight lol.
So there are a few things I might mention when it comes to dealing with allergies. Personally I'm a big fan of Cetrizine 10mg, (Zyrtec) or Loratadine (Claratin) 10mg. I usually have to use one or sometimes both of these anti-histamines to deal with seasonal allergies. You may want to get the -D variant, which contains a decongestant, but personally I tend to find that causes dry nose and sinus infections long term. Afrin, a common nasal spray really helps relieve the inflammation of the nasal mucosa that gives you that stuffy headed feeling, however use of afrin and a number of these types of chemicals is usually limited to a few days at a time, but sometimes it can be enough to relieve major symptoms.
I really hope you feel better man. I know that shit is rough.
I take Sudafed (and i've tried basically everything else) daily, and it really only makes a slight dent. Hop things i need to surgically remove my sinus
@@BrassFacts Luke from TOGR had the sinus surgery a few years ago and swears by it. My allergies come and go, and tend to be well managed with Zyrtec occasionally with afrin. Another option might be allergy shots.
Hope you feel better soon.
3:40 “ass facts sent you”… spit my water out.
i reallllly wish someone ( primary arms) would make a actually compact 1-4 lpvo. take the 1-8 plx-c concept, but do SFP and 1-4 with a wide, short main tube.
essentially a better replacement for a red dot- magnifier set that doesn't compromise so much on weight (SWC) but gives you an etched reticle with bdc and better glass clarity at 4x( and 1x if you have the 'stigmatism)
Picked up a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8 FFP for less than 500 a while back. I cannot find a better FFP LPVO for that price. Glass quality is better than the SFP Strike Eagles as well as quarter MOA adjustments on turrets. I have seen it for as low as 400. Its not a Nightforce obviously but like I said, name a better illuminated FFP LPVO in the 400-600 range. The only ones that Ive seen that are better, were not illuminated.
Love mine
@@breckfreeride i noticed that by setting it to about 1.3x instead of the 1x, it helps in close quarters when used as a red dot with both eyes open. Usually the cheaper scopes dont have that super clear 1x without edge disruption but like I said, setting it to 1.3x helped alot.
March FX 1.5-15x42mm DFP is my go to LPVO currently. messed with all the different styles (1-6/8/10, ffp/sfp, fiber/etched, etc) and for me, I can deal with the subpar "1x" in order to gain that 50-250+% max magnification. You have a pretty decent eyebox with minimal eye relief shrinking going to 15x and it doesn't darken all that much thanks to the 42mm objective. Dual Focal Plane gives you the nice "1" like most 1-6 SFPs with a daylight visible dot and thick posts, while gaining a very usable, fast, and easy Christmas tree when you bump into the FFP. It also weighs less and is shorter than some LPVOs like the Trijicon credo 1-8. I also find the 1.5x to be pretty flat.
As for equally large plate of compromises you get... Tight parallax due to the 10 power factor in a short body. Can't get it as low as an LPVO (not an issue on ARs and skyscraper gang). It isn't daylight bright (3/10 on the nova scale). A steep 24-30oo price tag. A non expedient warranty experiance (small overseas shop. slower than Kahles/Swaro).
The throw lever is one feature I really karen over and the March is tolerable. Its a smidge stiffer than a K16I and Credo 1-8, but you can still somewhat effortlessly spin it british style (with the pinky), which easily beats out anything PA, Vortex, Swampfox, etc puts out.
How I view it, you can train to get good with the 1.5x at close range, but there's nothing you can do to increase your natural magnification for when you just want to squeeze that last little bit of data from what you are looking at and for some people (like me), my eyes are worse than any premium lens I've looked through, which led me to dump my K16I for a swampfox arrowhead 1-10 lol as I could see better with it. With the march, I get the best (and then some) of both worlds.
I just threw the new Vortex Venom 1-6 on my 11.5 build and honestly shocked with the performance
Defractive power light reticle in some FFP lpvos are just as daylight bright as the SFP fiber ones. Razor 1-10, NX8,. ATACR1-8 , S&B PM2 1-8
All preference but can't talk me out of it... Acog w/dot over LVPO all day everyday IMO for general purpose.
I was called a fudd for deciding Lpvo wasn’t for me since I don’t really have access to longer ranges in my area lol
Super helpful video. Definitely helped me make my decision for an optic
I need an LPVO with a strong diopter, +-3 preferably. My eyes suck and if I can't see the reticle without my glasses then there's no point over a dot/magnifier.
LPVOs are great for SPRs. Good enough reticle and magnification to do work with 5.56 in its effective range, meh enough 1x to do close-in work if you HAVE to.
Coming from a dude with an SPR, I wouldn’t buy one again. I set one up to check a box I thought needed to be checked…but doesn’t. Just stick to general purpose. But if you’ve already goofed and bought an 18” upper and don’t want to sell it, yes put a 1-10x on. Not a SFP 1-6x. Reticle is too rudimentary for longe range, BDC is calibrated for a certain combo of round going a certain velocity that you may not have, holdovers only out to about 600, and needs to be on 6x to work. To retain that BDC reticle if you want it just sacrifice the 2x for the increased field of view, durability, no-leveling needed, lighter package ACOG. Add a dot on top that gives you all the pros of a skyscraper mounted dot on a CQB gun (NODs and gas mask use, etc) all at probably less than the price of a LPVO and boom, way better deal.
A good general purpose rifle has a red dot/magnifier or an ACOG/red dot. This is the way.
Yeah this tracks with how I went about getting an LPVO for my AR, I was looking more general purpose and went SFP 1-6x, it's got a good 1x, a nice 6x, eyebox could be a bit better but light transmission is good, it's a vortex, holds zero, it does what I need it to do and then some.
I could have gone with RDS + Magnifier but I want a bit more control for target identification.
For my G3 though I'm picking up a MPVO because .308 goes the distance and I want it to be a DMR, it is not a GPR with that bulk.
But you are correct, these are guidelines, and good ones at that, and 100% if you're in the market for a scope, go dig through C_DOES stuff, that's how I landed on the LPVO I have and I love the damn thing.
For my needs an lpvo isnt needed but its still good to have if it ever becomes relevant, also training
Credo 1-6x sfp is my jam.
It do be good
@11:55 what is that ghillie?
For my SFP 1-6x, my 3x drops and 6x drops are so close, it doesn't matter until I try to use the 300 yard hash mark. It works well, but I still REALLY want a PLXc.
Plan on a Trijicon 1-6 SFP and I’m done. EOTech on my other “CQB” gun.
The credo hx 1-6 SFP 223bdc is a real sleeper. same with the delta stryker hd 1-6. I prefer them over the gen2Es and anything cheaper. maybe not a K16I 3gr, but for half that? Absolutely.
When is that top 5 in each category dropping? I need this meow
Hi Brock, nice to see I'm not alone in the Brock world.
I got a plxc for $600 and I’m happy with it
0:14 - I didn't know you could cant a Safariland so far forward. That's gotta be hard to draw from.
Nice coverage of LPVO's. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the video. As always, great content!
Oh also, sorry this might sound weird, but if you are ever interested in getting access to some really high altitude larping space up in Wanship, Utah (up above park city), feel free to let me know or message me or whatever. You'd have to run suppressors in most of the spaces that I'm talking about, since the few people who live up there are a lil touchy about 5.56 in some parts of the canyon, because of the reverberation, but you already do that anyway so who cares haha
Shout out to the Steiner P4xi! My fav 1x I’ve ever seen and I’ve handled a lot of LPVO’s. Too bad they couldn’t replicate that in a 6x.
Babe wake up the new Brassfacts lpvo deep dive video just dropped!
Can you look at the leatherwood optics? There proven Vietnam sniper Tec. But there is no videos other than there’s… I’m highly drawn to there cam system, if it makes since to you too
C does is the best to figure out the real details of each lpvo
Watching this video because I love you but ACOGs stay winning 💯💯💯
I’ve watched so many of these love videos and still an unmagnified red dot on a carbine 😀
Tactical Barbie dress up with brass fax LMAO
Watching his LPVO reviews to justify the PLxC I just bought 🤣
😂👍!!!