MARVEL REMOVED STORYLINES: What's Going On At Marvel Studios? | Invosstigation #2
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- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2023
- Is Marvel Studios in CRISIS after removing and changing several storylines last minute? With longtime Marvel executive Victoria Alonso leaving the studio, Erik Voss explains what's really going on Marvel with another "Invosstigation."
Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania ending reshot a month before the film's release. Marvel filing a DCMA lawsuit to track down the Reddit leaker of its dialogue transcript. Rumors of a Doctor Doom post-credit scene to Black Panther Wakanda Forever that was removed. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness removing an alternate opening scene in which Wanda Maximoff decapitates Mordo. Why is Marvel removing all of these storylines? Is it to stay ahead of leaks, or is there a deeper reason?
Welcome to The Deep Dive, a new channel in the New Rockstars Digital Network. Hosted by Erik Voss, The Deep Dive is the destination for more pointed media investigations. From full seasons of Marvel streaming shows to cult classic films, Erik will dig to the roots of the hidden agendas beneath every title. 
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You left out how this whole plot removal process started. Falcon and the Winter Soldier's removed pandemic plot that completely gutted the Flagsmashers and set the precedent for weak villains with no true shown motivation.
@@DeepDiveNR the video on removed plot lines has a removed plot line. You really are good 😂
@@colonelsanders1617 Voss’s writing and storytelling is next-level
Could it just have been normal vaccines that were tampered with, and they didn’t want to feed the idiot beast?
@@DeepDiveNRi thought it was reported that it was a virus storyline but everyone just assumed Covid because of association, similar to how James bond no time to die allegedly had a story about a virus but because of Covid it got changed to be nanobots instead
@The Deep Dive Is there a link between these removed subplots that could reveal a major story line that needed to be removed? Do these removed subplots relate to comic story line specifically?
You nailed it, Erik Voss. Less is more in the case of Marvel. Now I will admit, as many of us gladly will, that I crave any content/information about Marvel and its stories. But, I never wanna become bored and complacent in my participation. Please continue to guide us Erik and thank you.
Not all characters should have a 3rd or 4th movie but I think Thor deserved a 4th. It was just mishandled. When you try and give stormbreaker a personality for a bit you should take a step back. Lol The god butcher and Jane’s story could’ve slapped much harder.
I think characters deserve a 3rd or 4th film as long as there is a good story to tell. One of my problems with Quantumania is that there is no real character arc for Scott or Hope. They are basically the same at the end of the film as at the beginning. That makes for a boring lackluster story. That said I enjoyed Quantumania and don't think it was a horrible film, just not as good as it should have been.
Thanks for the content Eric! I could listen to you talk all day but I understand how incredibly taxing that would be
Was waiting for it😂 I second the first message!
Had there been more a connective plot like based Phase 4 around the concept of survivors guilt between MCU projects and more conversations between MCU projects, then maybe half of them would not turn out so bad to the viewers.
A really important scene was removed from the Moon Knight season finale where Marc and Steven were going to confront their mother. The scene where he and Steven confront Doctor Harrow was moved to fill that spot instead of taking place as they were returning to Alexander's tomb from the Duat.
This is a great example of "just because there is a reason, that doesn't make it acceptable."
Fire statement fire 🔥
Couldn’t have said it better myself
@@malcombumvolakum3175 thank you
With great power comes great responsibility.
Best part of my week is watching these videos
Obviously comic book movies have become the most common and prolific place to see post credit scenes, but a deep dive into post credit scenes throughout other movies would be interesting
I think I would be into that. cool idea!
My critique for Waldron actually isn't about the humor! I disagree with decisions he has admitted to surrounding Wanda's character. Whether it be the limitations of production or plain ignorance on writing complex women, my excitement from WandaVision to Multiverse of Madness was absolutely decimated by her shallow, cartoony villain arc. WandaVision was such a masterpiece besides the pandemic interference, and it felt wasted. Especially Vision. Losing Vision was the reason she made the hex, he was the reason she was in Westview, and he was the one she created children with. Their goodbye scene has lost all weight after MoM, and I can't help but blame a part of that on writing.
The only thing that stayed the same for MoM was the title. Literally everything else changed. The director and writer changed right before the pandemic started. Because of the lockdown they had some time to rewrite the script but then Marvel flipped the release schedule to have MoM come out after No Way Home as it was originally scheduled to have MoM come out before No Way Home. Both of those movies were shooting at the same time as well so they had to react to what No Way Home home was doing. Plus, Waldron was in contact with Jac Schaeffer since the Loki and WandaVision writers rooms were next to each other and Waldron also got Elizabeth Olsen’s opinion and feedback on Wanda’s character as well so he asked input from others including the actress herself. I’m not saying you can’t be disappointed but I do understand that movie probably had to deal with more behind the scenes issues than any other movie in the covid era.
@meow-eg7du Elizabeth justifying Wanda as a "single mom" just didn't rationalize the tonal shift for me. I didn't even know the writers rooms were close so that makes it even more embarrassing they couldn't live up to it. :/
Bringing up Loki tho, it started off so strong! But the Loki and Sylvie pairing? Giving a hetero passing relationship to characters established to be genderfluid and pan? Very "if man and woman on screen together, then must fall in love". Idk a lot of character choices from Waldron have been iffy in my personal opinion.
@@LoveyInTheSky If you want to see what type of writing Waldron can do that’s non-IP, I would suggest watching his show Heels. It has a 96% critic and 93% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. To me, it sounds like you’re too attached to some characters that if the writer doesn’t meet your head canon then it must be bad. Even if the characters are gender-fluid and pan that means that a person who presents as male and a person who presents as female still can’t fall in love? Cause from what I’ve seen, a lot of people talk about bi erasure as well. I feel like you weren’t going to satisfied unless the show or movie did exactly as you expected in your mind. But to each their own.
@meow-eg7du I don't really have any attachment to Loki as a character. I just found it odd to make a point of recognizing their gender and orientation then leaving it as your typical heteronormative couple. People may even consider that queerbaiting, but understandably why mention that and get people excited for representation that's only referenced and never shown? Like I said I don't really like Loki as a character, but him having a "will they won't they" with Mobius would've been interesting!!
I say it's my opinion bc people have different perspectives, but these were 2 characters I had no major investment in. I just found the gap in Vision being a MAJOR part of Wanda's story and motivation then him not appearing in MoM at all.. jarring.
You can still be a fan and be disappointed by decisions. I think what you're referring to is toxic fandom in which "it's my headcanon or the highway", but I had no knowledge of House of M or the TVA before these shows. I just genuinely saw a gap in writing where connections could've been better. 🤷♀️ and that's ok, I'm still going to watch every project obsessively.
She should have been manipulated by Maphisto being released after the end of Loki and the multiverse opening up allowing America Chaves to move through it. The death of he who remains should have unlocked her powers and also broke Dr Stranges spell. So the motivations aren't because of a bumbling wizard and kid or because Wanda is a sad single mom. But that she becomes corrupted similar to how she corrupted Tony Stark to make Ultron. Loki should have been the direct jump off to Phase 4.....all leading to Quantumania being a situation where Kang just straight up kidnaps Cassie who has been secretly going to the quantum realm and it all should have ended with Kang getting enough of the tech to launch his invasion or just ended on a much better cliffhanger with the character. Also Gorr in Thor Love and Thunder should have been shown actually butchering Gods. That movie should have been directed by someone else......phase 4 just felt like all the problems were caused by the heroes
What stands out to me is that it's only really been in the last couple months that we've been seeing headlines about big changes happening at Marvel going forward.
Another important thing in the last few months that may be linked is Bob Iger taking back over as CEO of Disney, with Bob Chapek being suddenly and immediately dismissed. I don't remember where the info originated, but I remember reading someone claim somewhere that a big part of the over-saturation of Marvel content in the last 2 years was pushed by Bob Chapek and his desire to grow Disney+ as a competitor to the other major streaming platforms, to the detriment of the quality of the content and the work-life balance of everyone working on that content.
With Chapek out, the announcement of the scaling back of Marvel's content machine, and Victoria Alonso leaving all being announced/happening in the last few months, I can't help but see this as Bob Iger trying to right a ship that Chapek's overly-aggressive profit-at-all-costs-consequences-be-damned approach started to sink.
This all feels very plausible, and perhaps Feige is also trying to fix things too?
These projects are planned and greenlit 2-3 years in advance. The growth and quantity mandate came from Iger before Chapek assumed the title of CEO. This is on Iger and Feige, not Chapek. Disney+ is Iger's baby and it has cost the company a ton of money.
Ong
I really hope it does slow down honestly have more time for the people to really focus on the projects instead of rush
The problem isn’t them promising storylines which have been deleted. They haven’t followed up on half the storylines they have actually promised.
It’s criminal Shang chi hasn’t been seen since, his sisters new criminal empire, the celestials are taking rather a long time to judge earth, doctor strange will no doubt take 4/5 years to sort out the incursion.
There’s so many more I’ve not listed
Yes. It's just to much to follow. and creates a bigger problem because general audience come to see the films would not understand the little things or why x character his evil or bad, because they don't watched a series or another character movie to follow.
We JUST started the new phase, give it time. Like phase 1, it'll be addressed later on.
yeah... like, it would have been a nice touch if every project since Eternals at least made a passing nod to the giant thingy sticking out of the Earth. waves should be different. tsunamis. I don't know. at least have civilians reacting.
you could totally joke too. like a newscaster playing in the background of a scene, reporting on it..."So, there's a giant sticking out of the planet. Just a Tuesday. Now, back to the weather..."
Finally something that actually makes sense about the MCU over the last couple of years. Good stuff.
I am~ enjoying this channel. I love your Loki breakdown video.
To answer your question, I love for you to investigate how Secret Invasion and everything that has set it up (any project with the DODC) will impact the MCU going forward. Because I think it will especially impact Spider-Man. They’ll have~ to explain why Tony wanted Fury of all people to give Peter the glasses, or why it happened before Peter was ready for them. And I think it is because Fury knew Peter’s parents, which then means that they plan on adapting Spider-Man: Family Business to some extent. Which means we will get Teresa Parker in the next Spider-Man movie. And since Fury wasn’t on Earth during NWH, he remembers Peter, and will be able to point Teresa in the right direction. The recent Spider-Man trilogy was about Peter losing his old life. The next one will be about him building a new one, and meeting Teresa would be a great start to that. I also think that the Skrulls manipulated the events of FFH so that they could get the glasses, because they run te DODC. I am very~ confident that this theory is true, and I’d love it if you investigated it before SI premiers.
@@DeepDiveNR Yes please please do Secret Invasion next!
So fury can remember Spiderman because he wasn't on earth at the time of the spell???
Yet the spell went out to multiple universes and everyone in them...
Lol yeah ok
The internet needed this video, very well done! Thanks Voss
I absolutely love this Channel Erik! this content in my eyes is top tier interesting and entertaining . I really do appreciate each video , and I actually WANT to watch from literal start to finish. Not a lot of creators have that affect. Thanks for the hard work Erik and team!
This channel is awesome
8:33 It’s just a little frustrating having to wait another few years for a Black Knight project or Young Avengers project…but I’m excited for Secret Invasion, Loki S2, Ironheart, Echo, Agatha: Coven of Chaos, Daredevil: Born Again, Wonder Man, Vision Quest, Midnight Angels, and the movies and the animated stuff.
Also there’s a lot of rumored special presentations. Mephisto, Ghost Rider, Nova, Sentry, Silver Surfer, The Ten Rings, Man-Thing, and Okoye.
Yeah, Young Avengers is going to be hard when they've gone and cast all these very talented young actors over 2019-2022...and they're too old by the time their moment actually comes and they have to recast them all again. I mean, I know Alan Ruck played Cameron when he was 30, but not everybody can get away with that.
Its crazy so many thins they are doing...
@@catfdljws No one wants to see the Young Avengers
@@JDRamos213 I would love to see a Young Avengers or Champions project.
Great breakdown. Deep Dives have been what I needed when I didn't know I needed it. Appreciate all the hard work!
1. Great video, Voss!
2. I'd LOVE an "InVosstigation" on Kevin Feige's ideas for the stories he tells in the MCU, and how they connect.
Might seem weird, but I'm curious as to know how the man operates.
I worked at a movie theater and we got to watch avengers infinity war and end game in a private showing for all the employees a day before release free popcorn and drinks too. Probably my coolest marvel fan story.
This is an excellent video- I’m actually doing my PhD on how the MCU functions as a narrative structure, and this is exactly what I’m writing about right now- this video may end up being a source of fan discussion
I’ve had a theory starting from Falcon & Winter Soldier & with every MCU project since that the whole scene removals was either to do with Deadpool showing us in DP3 that he’s been here for a long time in the background which they could make funny obviously, or using those scenes for Kang/Kang variants in a later film & like the DP theory showing he’s been around longer & all those scenes will show him destroying other heroes
Marvel's secretive nature is beginning to affect its quality. If some spoilers get out, it doesn't take away from the film. Everyone knew that the old Spideys were returning, and there were leaks. It didn't take away from that amazing moment when Garfield's Spidey appears in the portal. The movie was awesome, and it wasn't because of spoilers being protected.
Thank you for the Deep Dive Channel.
Great this is the type of content we want. And since its deep dive, lets hope for 30-45 min vids even if it is weeks apart.
I think Erik that this is mostly the case of the railroad laying track while the train speeds down it. I think editing, changes and removals from certain plots are to allow characters and events to happen in later films. I doubt The Kang story is entirely written even at this date, for one example. It’s FAR from the Star Wars sequel thing where each film seemingly was written in a vacuum (I liked them regardless) but yeah, I think plots are being molded and crafted in the larger picture in the editing room. Disney can afford it.
What’s going on? Marvel has lost the plot, literally
It's hard to explain how badly I wanted an answer to this question! THANKS, Voss!
I like that Scott lived. If they keep killing characters, I'll run out of characters to care about. I'm still missing Tony, Nat and Steve :/
Omg Victoria Alonso left?? I got soo used to seeing her at the movie premiers😮😮😮
Black list… hmm
Another Great video! Can’t wait for more and keep it up
Another nice dive there. Could you perhaps do a dive on the different/changing models for streaming shows? i.e. the series dump vs two halve split vs weekly episodic releases. And perhaps why different streamers choose different formats, what this might mean for the future of Netflix/Prime etc etc please? It's fascinating stuff that I'm not sure everyone watching appreciates.
I know I was pissed at first when the MCU shows weren't dumped like the Netflix Marvel shows, but now I have done a complete 180 on that. The weekly format with shorter episode counts has really worked beautifully for the MCU IMO, being able to get my show without it being over stretched across a year has given much less filler to old school TV while utilizing the weekly format still allows for water cooler theorizing. Love it.
That said, I do hope they are starting to realize that every show is unique, some stories need a Special, some 6 episodes, some 12 (or maybe more). We'll see.
You nailed it. The most sought answers to these intiguing questions. All thanks to Erik Voss. Kudos to this channel.
To be fair there's probably a link between VFX artists feeling overworked and underpaid and the VFX artists leaking Marvel secrets or even bootlegs.
Absolutely. They doing their revenge over the studio and I stand by them.
It’s pretty annoying how the stuff they remove is the stuff that would have fixed all of the issues I’ve had with the last phase of mcu movies
Erik this has been an amazing channel so far and I think the videos have been great to hear. Its not an invosstigation but I think you could do a series here on this channel to try and "fix" the MCU, or a specific franchise you are referring to for that episode. For example, plenty of the sequel trilogy of Star Wars could have reworked or even scrapped, and I wonder if you would have any interest in justifying lack luster or over convoluted stories to create a stream of digestible and well formatted restructuring of your ideal movie/universe?
Fantastic video. Kinda off-topic but I personally believe that Doctor Doom WAS in a post-credit scene for BPWF. They just changed it last minute because it would outshine the movie and over-arching Phase 4 narrative of grief/loss. A Doctor Doom reveal would of sent everyone into a frenzy and take their attention away from the movie itself. I'm betting he'll show in Thunderbolts of Fantastic 4.
ItsAAA You’re 1000% right in your comment
Great view, thank you for sharing. I'm really enjoying the deep dive! ❤
I love this background music make me more focus on what you're saying. The Deep Dive is my favourite channel now xD
Thanks for the great content Eric, love your videos!
Great video!!
Good take, as always!
Grear show sir. Living the new channel. You’re becoming my favorite RUclipsr.
first video ive watched on deep dive and immediately subscribed. give us the tea lol
Reminds me of when they supposedly cut a virus subplot from F&WS bcs of covid and it made a ton of stuff in that show make a lot less sense
They didn't address that at all in the Assembled behind the scenes. Pandemic is mentioned in most that were affected BY IT...but I kept waiting to hear about the plot change bc of it...
Loved this erik!
I love the MCU, and I'll always love the movies, but it is getting weirdly inconsistent and a bit lackluster
We’re definitely enjoying The Deep Dive, Voss! Good A.M. from a Fan in Tennessee!!
Amazing video!!!
I lovw this new channel Voss! Abosolutely briliant deep dives!!
One of your best videos so far. Well done.
I'm starting to worry. Don't fall apart marvel!
Thank you Eric!!!
Deep Dive is such a breath of fresh air. Definitely become a priority to watch
When will we get deeper into Marvels inner workings.
@@DeepDiveNR then i think we need a full explanation of the cancelations and pushbacks of marvel titles, cause i think we are confused about rumour and fact.
This was so good, Erik!
Eric we love the deep dive. Thanks soo much for you and your teams creativity to bring us a more understanding of these stories that we love. Long may it continue
Just wanted to throw a kudos to your sound designer/editor and whomever created the music for the Deep Dive videos!
I love these videos Erik 🤔
Great points. Thank you.
This was a great perspective
They are doing the right thing by not showing what they may not make. They want to do the same thing DC did with Jack Snyder'cut post credit scene.
I’m a big fan of your videos on new rockstar’s they are are are so good to watch ❤
Great video.
Movies have been doing this for years. MCU has gotten so big they are under a microscope. Internet criticism has gotten to such a pitch that nothing seems to satisfy the masses like it used to.
Personally I am kinda wanting the Rick and Morty writers to go. Solely because the writing is becoming sloppy. For example how was multiverse of madness written without Waldron watching wandavision? There has to be strict requirements regarding to the overall story to the writers when writing these movies.
We want more. Keep em coming
GREAT video.
New channel! From the people who brought u New Rockstars
This was a very much needed video
It is true: Marvel was originally doing a much simpler juggling act. Now things have gotten much more complex. They’ve got like 30 different balls in the air, as opposed to the original 6.
Not everything is glorious these days. But there is still much to appreciate! Can’t wait for more Loki!
Please do a Deep Dive or a breakdown of some kind of John Wick 4!!!! I know you’re busy making many videos and living life, but it would be very much appreciated! 😊
Stories get changed all the time during the movie production process. Films have had issues and changes, even last-minute changes, since pretty much the beginning of Hollywood. This isn't a 'problem' with the MCU in particular (but yeah, I get it, us nerds love talking about the MCU).
You're right. I think it's just because of the interconnectedness it can make problems exponentially worse looking.
Loving this new channel. What would I love a deep dive into? Fight Club & Memento
So glad i dont have to be subbed to new rockstars to get voss content anymore. Youre the best dude.
Quantity over quality.
Marvel is still head and shoulders above all other franchises right now
Another problem in the MCU now is that we don't know who the main character is, who to trust?
In the previous saga the main players were Tony and Steve, but now? Who the hell are we trusting to save us?!! There are so many characters but who is the one who will sacrifice himself and is actually the one who holds all the movies on his back like Iron Man?
I would love for you to make a video about it.
Is it Doctor Strange?
Spiderman?
Loki?
Sam Captain America?
Thor?
Wanda?
It’s Wong isn’t it 😂
Change in Dr. Strange 2 was the most unsatisfactory one IMO
Oh how I Loveee these deep dives
She Hulks final episode looked like it was a live response episode to the back lash all of the scrutiny and critique the show had received in the earlier part of the season. It was super SUS. That or they knew this show was going to bomb and some how knew to have She Hulk address all the issues that would eventually come up against the show.
Gr8 deep dive episode
These invosstigations are so interesting to watch. Probably my favorite series on either channel
I think I agree with the not having many parts of a movie for the same hero. But one thing I think differently is that I think people who enjoy this genres, enjoy having more things to watch. And if there are less shows, why would anyone be subscribed to Disney Plus all year round?
I think they should instead of making a part 2-3 of certain heroes, make series for those characters instead. I think that is one reason why Loki works. We don't need origin story for those characters. And it can just focus on certain adventures.
The best drive home listening!
Thank u for saying this🤗
Plot twist: Kein Feige is another variant of Kang messing with the timeline
You got me at invosstigation.
Do a big 1-hour Deeeeeeo Dive into interstellar and Tenet.
Great video! If you are taking suggestions on the removed timelines topic. The Netflix series The Dark Crystal is in my opinion one that had great potential with the movie being the final chapter but ended up not performing and Netflix killed it 😢
This is totally the content I want man.
Almost all movies go through rewrites and reshoots these days with more ability to change movies in post production, also with how much cheaper it is to use digital cameras vs film, it’s not costly to shoot more scenes, as with film.
The problem of editing a bad show (looking at you She-Hulk) is there's no viewer who's going to re-watch a lemon to re-experience how bad (and sour) that lemon. It would take massive re-shoots to make that show even passable.
Black widow’s post credit scene setting up Hawkeye was actually pretty legit too. Good job breaking this down!
Suggestion (not exactly for invosstigstions but hey haha) - do you think marvel will ever create content other than daredevil: born again that takes place in the blip right when it happens/immediate aftermath, or just before the final battle in endgame when everyone comes back and are summoned to fight? 🤔
Everytime Eric mocks kangs “will burn them out of time” I crack the hell up 🤣
I think they should've pushed She-Hulk to 2023 and be part of Phase 5 instead of rushing it! Quantumania should still ended with assembling the Young Avengers by teasing Iron Lad at the end!
I don't get why people think that a story beat is not going to change from the written script to the time the movie is edited and put together. Hell, even actual written books go through several edits and revisions along the way and even years later some authors go back and re-release different versions of their written works with changes. So I don't understand why some people think there's some big conspiracy going on.
Nailed it. ❤❤
hey Voss... huge fan from Colombia!!
you should break down "Training Day"
Great analysis, we also forget that the tastes of the generation that grew up on the first saga of movies. Part of this fan discontent is that the 2000's babies that were 8 when Iron Man came out and grew up w/ it are now 20 somethings trying to figure out adulthood and this pop culture of their childhood is no longer bringing them the same joy...add in they are now also a generation of social media and content creation...add in a lot are still living at home w/ a lot of free time...we are seeing the audience age out and the MCU brand is stuck between creating new characters/actors the kids now can latch on to while the ones aging out are looking for it to become more serious and gritty and complaining/over analyzing it all online 24/7. The real question is what does Disney do....will they ever let their main brands delve into serious media or will they stay the family entertainment company? They definitely have been able to maintain that for decades and change with the time...100 years old now?