Former DCA Regional Pilot Thoughts on DCA Crash
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- Today we sit down with a major airline pilot who previously flew for the regionals and has extensive experience operating in and out of Washington National Airport (DCA). He shares his insights on the unique challenges of flying into DCA, the demanding procedures pilots must follow, and his thoughts on the recent DCA crash.
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Great insights into this, thanks for coming on as always Andrew!
A refreshing take!
Maybe I’m missing something, but it seems to me the simplest way to avoid the plane and helio being on the same vertical would be to require the helio to hold before crossing the runway 33 approach until cleared by ATC, then it wouldn’t have to fly its route perfectly, which is a recipe for disaster.
Wait, wait, wait. That makes too much sense. How dare you suggest that when ATC saw the two aircraft headed for a collision they should have done anything about it? They were busy and doing their best, according to the published rules!
I agree, Larry.
Thank-you Larry. I’ve been thinking exactly the same thing. As soon as the helo did not keep separation after the first grant to maintain visual separation, the ATC should have commanded him to hold. Or better yet, never grant visual separation when paths will cross.
Thanks for mentioning the tight sequencing at DCA. It's definitely at factor in the accident.
The potential errors done by the helicopter crew or the ATCO are important however, far more important will be the organizational issues looked at by the NTSB. Among these, the airspace structure and ATC procedures in place around DCA as well as the concerned army unit's training, procedures, culture and leadership. A near miss occurred the day prior at DCA...
Tragic situation. This is some refreshing feedback contrast to a lot of the coverage on this incident.
We very much agree.
Great perspective Andrew.
He is the best!
Phenomenal interview
Thanks for watching!
This is one of the better videos on this topic I've seen. Great job!
Sorry this wasn't multiple tiny events. This was actually simple. The system allowed helos to fly under landing planes. Hence, the many near misses reported. Near misses are unacceptable. EVEN IF the helo stayed at 200ft, even if the helo spotted the right plane, it still would have been a near miss. The system is a problem. Both the helo, ATC, and the whole system there is a problem. Out of 30 near misses all involved ATC and 17 of the 30 were military pilots. Stats don't lie
Come on man you just proved it was many tiny events with your own comment. Poorly placed helo route, no distance/direction/description of traffic from ATC, blackhawk unable to PID the correct aircraft, altitude issues, and the plane being directed to runway 33 because of the nature of the busy airport. Not to mention wearing NVGs above city lights is a pretty horrendous SOP if it comes out that they were wearing them.
@@Lsj1775 Wrong. One non-tiny event happened.
The collision was right there on the ATC's display and he did effectively nothing about it.
Beez, I agree, all involved were set up to fail that night by a flawed system, inadequate safety margins for aircraft on approach to 33 and helos on the route passing below.
I’m not claiming to know all the causes, but it is just simple facts that ATC directed the helo to pass behind the RJ and the helo didn’t.
Again, I’m not laying blame (except for the generally flawed system there) or claiming to know why the helo didn’t pass behind, but they are just facts that we all know.
@@phillipschmidtke2001 Not so simple. The BH didn't pass behind the Bombardier because it thought it had been directed to pass behind a different plane. If it had just been directed to hold up until the ATC saw the CRJ had passed its path the collision would never have happened.
A routine practice is not necessarily a safe practice. No matter who tells me that helicopters and fixed wing aircraft can (and do) share the same airspace without incident, I will continue to believe that the risk is too great to tolerate.
I served in the military, but never have I considered those who don't as less patriotic, or give any person who served some kind of exclusive respect. That's quite an immature mindset. There are as much diverse personalities there as in the general population. About this incident, to say ATC followed their rules and procedures is flat out wrong. [FAA Order JO 7110.65AA 2-1-6 safety alert] requires ATC to issue a clear traffic alert to any aircraft considered to be in unsafe proximity. The phraseology is very specific: "TRAFFIC ALERT (call sign) (position of aircraft) ADVISE YOU TURN LEFT/RIGHT (heading), and/or CLIMB/DESCEND (specific altitude if appropriate) IMMEDIATELY.". Anyone can understand this would likely have prevented the accident, instead of the call "do you have the CRJ in sight?", which gave no direct actionable information which is 100% necessary when there is only 15 seconds until you intersect.
I find the military's use of Capt. Lobach pretty eyebrow-raising. Do you really need to train someone to fly a Blackhawk in order to get a hostess for Ralph Lauren at the White House or to serve on some anti-rape committee? But I don't know that her low flight hours (450 since 2019?) contributed to the collision, so the question seems like a distraction.
@@gandydancer9710 You have no clue. Seek help immediately.
Awesome interview, cheers
A common trait about the veteran pilots from this air space who I see on podcasts now is that they seem too close to the problem. They start from the assumption that risk factors like the volume of DCA traffic, military helicopter flight routes/paths (for "continuity of government" missions) and restricted air space rules in DC are set in stone and can't be changed. Of course they can.
Of all the videos I've watched, this has to be one of, if not the best, of them all
It's ATC's job to control the airspace because after all, the clue is in their name, but they abjectly failed to do so on this occasion!
Thankyou
Wake up everyone! Runway Life uploaded!
Notifications on lol!
Thank you!
With so many “near misses” prior, this should have never happened. Seems like many things that you reported are typical and no surprise for this airport actually costed people their lives It doesn’t take a rocket scientist or professional pilot to figure that out. Near misses should always be reported so that flaws can be investigated and change can occur to avoid this very type of thing. It should not take a disaster and loss of human life for them to change things or wake up to the problems. Very tragic😢
Isn’t the bigger picture that the commercial traffic should be at an expanded Dulles or a second hub outside the city like at most places in the world. Mixing up with military/official business in the centre should be part of the agenda of investigating this tragic accident.
Or ATC could just not give up control of the helos the way it did here.
@@gandydancer9710 Hasn’t DCA become a ‘convenient’ facility for politicians to make a quick getaway from the capital. One which they will reluctantly give up, even if the safety issue tends to argue against them.
Sorry, not buying this story about how ATC did a great job. When ATC told the BH about the CJR there was no way that the BH co-pilot could under the conditions properly identify which lights at that distance was the CJR headed for runway 33. So, when this soldier said he saw the traffic and requested visual he wasn't telling the truth. And ATC knew he wasn't telling the truth, so the ATC should never have granted visual. And this cycle was repeated. And the result was 67 deaths. I'm not saying these were bad people, but complacency ate them up. And you're not doing anyone any favors by ignoring this.
I don't think this is right. CRJ at bridge 1200 ft lining up for RW33 simply means in 2mins time a large jet will fly across the river at low altitude. That is all it could mean. Helo needed to assume it was coming, see it or not, and keep out of the way.
@@geoffj54 You're missing the point. The helo did see "it" and it did keep out of "it's" way, but it had identified the wrong "it".
Only the ATC's display showed what was actually going on, and the ATC did nothing.
@@gandydancer9710 Plenty of blame to go around.
@ You wouldn't know that from this video.
Thank you. It is nauseating the uninformed knee jerk blame on the controllers.
Uninformed motivated knee jerk absolution of the controllers is what I find nauseating.
Not they. Wasn't here just the one ATC controller actually monitoring both fixed wing traffic and the chopper traffic in the tower when there would normally be 2. The other individuals were monitoring ground traffic. The request for visual separation was made very quickly by the Blackhawk on 2 occasions - did they really have an aircraft in sight? The TC controler granted that request very quickly because it significantly reduced his workload on a very busy night. The other issue that I have is that aside from altitude the Blackhawk made no attempt to deviate from its path and was travelling at high speed (I have seen around 110 knots) towards the transect between H1/H4 pathway and R33. There have been many reported near misses at this airport - this was an accident waiting to happen. The FAA needs to take some resposibility.
5 controllers, including a Supe check-monitoring another Supe, and, I understand, two ground controllers.
Seems to me the Supe-monitoring-supe could have been postponed and one of the Supes set in the absent controller's seat. It's not like he contributed any backstop to the one ATC who screwed up by not holding back the Blackhawk.
Tower is reponsible and the ntsb will sure look into it to see if protocol were followed. No excuse the controller should have done more to avoid the disastrous collision. 😢😢
BH crew screwed up,ATC could have done more.procedures NOT FOLLOWED !
Unlike other pilots I follow doing covers of this crash ( Blancolerio channel, pilot debrief to name a few) they give so much insight. This guy is immature, emotionally, and quite insulting to his audience. “Calling folks unpatriotic, blah blah, as if serving in the military is a measure of one's patriotism to his nation. HOW ABSURD!. ONE OF THE WORSE SO CALLED THOUGHT on a crash.
Every body has eyes?
Your not comfortable because you are embarrassed to say what everbody saw!😳
When an experienced pilot cannot admit the truth, its becsuse he is either blind or a coward!
👨🏾🎓🙏🏽👼🏽🙏🏽👨🏾🎓
Stop helicopters flying under landing or taking off planes. Stop all military helicopter traffic within a mile of all civilian airspace. Still in this incident the controller should have prevented the collision.
Dude, stick to flying and stop waxing eloquent on philosophical differences between the sexes, because you missed school on that day
Thanks, I thought I was the only one! so I had to read the comments. This guys should keep his thought to himself. lol
PAT two five.
The sole reason anyone takes Dawkins seriously is that snooty accent. His arguments for NS and Darwinian evolution are shallow and with no merit.
The monkey trial was a long time ago. Time for you to wake up and join modernity, Mr. Hooey.
definitely not airliner fault, totally chopper crew............