This is what it means to be a Vaush fan. Defending child pornography on Vaush's behalf and not even being paid for it. Imagine having this much free time. 🤦🏾♂️
@@omegahaxors9-11 Maybe. But then again, people do idolize others to the point where they think what those clowns say or do has no wrong in it. FYI: I’ve never watched Vaush streams outside of reviews like the one BE is doing here in this “debate”. All I know is that he’s a pretty sick individual that should be investigated.
I have a lot of free time and I'd rather spend it slowly sawing my arm off than try to defend any of Vaush's bad takes. Sorry for the redundancy, I could've just said "Vaush's takes", but then I wouldn't get to emphasize that his takes are consistently bad by pointing out the redundancy.
@@RicardoPetinga No need to excuse your redundancy in this specific case. His takes are so consistently awful that redundancy is not only warranted, it may be required.
If you think both CP and child labor are both exploitative, then how do you not come out thinking "so both should be stopped"? How fucked up are you if your conclusion is "therefore CP should be allowed too"!
Imagine thinking that a fundamental need to keep our economy stable justifies exploitation equally to something purely for entertainment value, or thinking that direct interaction with the exploitation is the same as inadvertently consuming products like shirts made by children. The guy is insane and broken. He’s disgusting for defending CP.
@@nickkemp4979 I would also argue that when you are wearing for example a shirt produced by child labor, you are buying a product made through child exploitation. So you are maybe benefitting from it (the same qualitity shirt might be less expensive), but you are not directly doing the exploitation. But when you watch child sexual abusive material, then you are at that point exploiting the child, bc other then with the shirt, the material is not only produced with exploitation, but it's consumption is also exploitative. (After all victims of child abuse do not want video of their exploitation going around, that itself is extremely stressing and painful to them.)
actual real shoeonhead logic Put see things that both cause harm; one considered normal, one universally stigmatised. Quite obviously, the universally stigmatised one is the good one now!!!
I shouldn't be laughing at this, but him saying "let me finish" over and over again while making a case for CP possession is some South Park level fuckery and I love it
Do these people just not understand that CP is sexual abuse against a child or do they not care? For the sake of “debating”. Absolutely, mind-numbingly stupid. Children should be protected. Not exploited so some creep can get off from their trauma. Disgusting.
They do, they just thinks it's okay because sweatshops also used child labor, and most people under capitalism consume commodities that uses sweatshops (almost all big company does), but they don't get that consuming t shirt, shoes or electronics isn't consuming the exploitation exclusively, but CP does
That "No convincing agument against owning cp" clip is so disturbing to me, not just because of his actual statement, but because he's so aggressive about it. He instantly banned someone who said that it was a bad take and then started yelling to his chat about their feelings getting hurt by what he said. No one who's just talking shit to be edgy gets so emotional and personally invested in these takes.
even if he thought it was a good argument or whatever any rational person would still realize that most people will still have a problem with it. Yet he doesn't he banned someone who wasn't even being aggressive
@@soulplexis Vaush called it a "hot fucking take." Now, in reality it's a dumb fucking take, but you'd think that Vaush would anticipate upsetting people, since that's the point whole damn point of a "hot take". Why is he incensed that his take did its job and provoked people in his audience? On another note, this is a significant reason I hate hot take culture. Having an opinion has to get a rise out of people, instead of just being a sound observation of the world. And Vaush, aside from likely being a paedophile, stinks of this behavior.
He started banning people because he realized after materializing his thoughts that he had accidentally revealed he has no issue in theory with people possessing CP. His chat rightfully started raising eyebrows and he cut them off before it got too crazy. The fact this guy felt compelled to come on and moan about people who “had cp made of them in the past, like the 80’s” which I suppose is when he thinks it was last legal is insane
The only sane reason to "own" it is if you are about to turn it to the police for evidence so they can examine it to then delete it off your drives when the police are done gathering everything.
Im sorry, i find it hard to keep watching this after the "What if we get permission from the child 30 years later" argument. Its literally "what if the child consents" but with extra steps.
More like it’s ‘child exploitation’ with extra steps. Sort of what I got out of this video. A lot of these people want to always go through the extra steps so they can somehow get around being called out for being directly associated to something. It’s why everything they say just leads to one question to another question to another, etc. so you never admit to it, but is happening. They are leading you without saying they are.
@@eleSDSU in countries like germany quotes are framed ,,like this" to indicate where a quote starts and ends. may not matter much here, but it makes for a better flow when reading content that heavily and repeatedly uses citations.
@@Alienshade 1) Larp 2) He is a creep. He admitted to jerking off to loli and on a separate occasion admitted to owning a Twitter account that was filled with pedo shit. And before he had a platform in multiple discord discussions identitied with pedos. Also let's not forget how Vaush said that he thought of Poppy as a loli. He is a creep.
is anyone else made extremely uncomfortable by hearing thus guy casually use the term "loli" when vaush himself used it to describe someone he sexually harassed? just me?
He seems surprised when BE asks what that is lol, like it’s shocking to him that there are people out there who aren’t familiar with his degenerate nonsense
The data already shows that consumption of CSA materials is correlated with higher CSA recidivism rates. This is information that has been known for decades. It was talked about a lot back when people were questioning if child sex dolls would be a “treatment” for pedophiles. The consensus was that practicing and viewing drawn CSA didn’t directly exploit children, but it did normalize the act for offending pedophiles, and that they could and did get more bold in their offenses irl as the non-exploitative material became uninteresting to them. Long story short, pedophilia is something that people do not necessarily choose but they do require intense *therapy* and an active intention to not consume or produce CSA. Non-exploitative child pornography is not therapy, it’s an extremely unhealthy coping mechanism that puts real children at risk by desensitizing molestation and rape for offending pedophiles.
@@redmaple1982 any act in porn can be done consensually. sexual consent is impossible with children. so it doesn't open a door to discuss porn in general
This aged like wine made from the finest grapes harvested in an isolated peaceful Italian valley that was kept in a handmade mrytlewood barrel for 50 years
I said this same thing to myself in the shower today, while I was thinking about his bullshit "consistent ethics" retort. I'm glad, that others realize this.
@@nineball9746 like that was his whole debate with EJ. EJ tried explaining dialectical materialism, while vaush just derailed onto really bad faith deontological ethics.
@@0keo that really depends on what your interests are and what type of philosophy you would like learning about. I think moral philosophy is probably the most 'accessible' starting point for most people
I'll say this again as I've said elsewhere: "Drawn CP" is used frequently by pedophiles when grooming children. It exists for two purposes: to get pedos off, and as a tool to cause direct harm to children. Any society interested in justice and the prevention of harm coming to children should hunt down and exterminate any "loli", "drawn CP" or whatever, wherever it arises. Child rape is not just some abstract subject that exists as some kind of hypothetical for debate bros to jerk their philosophy chops with, it's hugely damaging, more pervasive than we care to admit, and the fact that it's the debate sphere's go-to for their thought experiments should be disconcerting and alarming in every way, shape or form for everyone else.
11:02 Did this person genuinely imagine a situation where victims of filmed child sex abuse would, as adults consent to its distribution to pedophiles??
I appreciate the efforts to actually confront Vaush on this. But damn, couldn't personally listen to the Vaush -stan dude, and the topic. Had to tap out early.
I don’t blame you, child abuse is triggering. I sat through this mostly to hear how are the stans defending this. Both Voosh and NC didn’t do stellar jobs at the “debate” but NC did the right thing by noping the frack out when Voosh wanted to do hypotheticals of the “Jewish question”. Also Voosh just seems to have a weird disdain for WOC and/or trans women who don’t agree with him.
@L maybe I’m just a simple engineer who didn’t do philosophy courses in college, but i don’t see value in doing hypotheticals like that. And yeah he asserted later that he thinks there was disproportionate jewish bankers which isn’t true and even if it were (insert screaming witch Meryl Streep from into the woods) WHOOOOOOO CARES?!? You’re still pushing anti-semitic shit. Stop doing that.
The danger of vaush isn't that he's problematic. It's not just that. It's that he is against anything more left than liberalism and he strong arms his audience into resisting becoming any more left than liberalism He is an effective block to the development of socialism in the US. And him growing an audience of conservatives and liberals and centrists doesn't do anything for the development of the left in the western world. Sure you could say leftism in the western world hasn't amounted to much, but his content and fanbase is kneecapping it even more
Ive been avoiding Vaush for awhile be uase he comes off as liberal Ben Shapiro. And having watch to three videos featuring him, I can say thst his actually just someone that got in the "leftist" through Bernie and Chapo and never learned anything becuase he felt he knew everything there was to know. So Liberal Ben Shaprio.
Some people have said I'm giving Vaush too much credit, but I should clarify that this is among Vaush's growing audience and among people that find their way into every discord and online discussion. That is a lot of influence. And these people's political consciousness is being capped at base liberalism and pseudo intellectualism and debatebro culture. It's not the whole of the US left, but it is significant. You can't go to many online left spaces and not find at least one vaushite either waiting to defend him or being taken aback at some dumb shit you're pointing out that he said. That's what I was saying. And he's just going to get more and more popular and displace other far better left voices with his pseudo intellectual soft left personality cult
In this day and age, it seems even looking at full context is not enough if someone only hears one thing. A lot of people on this comment thread seem to be like "I can't believe Vaush thinks CP should be legal" and "I can't believe that Vaush thinks CP exploitation and labor exploitation are equivalent" without reconciling that Vaush - very clearly when you synthesize these two ideas - thinks that CP is exploitation. It seems a lot of people are just unable to read between the lines at all and react simply to the most superficial and most shocking part of the statement. I wonder how many leftists have been tricked into believe that Marx was an anti-semitic or racist because they were incapable of taking Marx's word holistically. Many of these same people would read Karl Marx's "The Jewish Question" on face value without seeing that it is clearly satirical.
The argument that they tried to pull out of "What if someone consent to CP made of them later in life" is laterally the worse thing ive heard. This idea that you can agrue from any postion becuase of logic is just making people dumber. And, appeartly, amoral.
@@huseyinbalc375 right, but it was especially cringe when this guy was trying to do philosophy 101 on real world examples and the fact there’s material consequences. It’s just a strange hill to die on 🤷🏻♂️
They asked: "Why do you think child pornography is bad?" You said: "Because it exploits children." They then asked you why child pornography is bad if it exploits children. You said you don't need to explain why the exploitation of children is bad. You then asked: "Why is genocide bad?" They said: "Because it exploits and kills people". They actually conceded that exploitation in and of itself is bad, but still agitated you to explain why, and specifically in the context of child pornography.
This "debate" is awesome. It's just "cp is bad" and someone with a ridiculous parasoical relationship trying to opine on what his favorite streamer secretly means when he is obviously in support of child porn. Also, would love if someone with more energy than me counted the amount of times he said "this is the problem" when BadEmpanada didn't let him go on some hypothetical tangent.
Love how he says he's just being consistent with consequentialism as if consequentialism wasn't batshit stupid in the first place. Also, the things he advocates DO have negative consequences, so he's not even consistent.
@@Adraria8 bc moral theories developed way past ancient ideas. no one who really studies moral theories will call themselves simply as "consequentialist". this is like someone being simply "socialist". consequentialism glosses over the intent and therefore can't be used to create fair judgements. two examples when consequentialism fails you might be interested in: 1. if someone breaks into a house, sees a sleeping person inside and leaves in fear, but later we find out that by leaving the door/window open they let out a gas out of the house, therefore saving the person inside from suffocation - all around, good consequences, but the person breaking into the house should not be considered a good person for doing so 2. (that's the better one) if we are somehow able to perfectly copy Hitler of 1944 down to his very atoms, consequentialists would say to you that we should prosecute this copy because he might do bad things in the future according to his believes. people who believe that we should judge people exclusively by intentions will say that we should prosecute the copy because he believes that he did all this horrible things. better person will say that none of it matters and we should not prosecute this person as he did nothing wrong - your neighbor might believe he is a literal Hitler, your neighbor might be genuine Nazi. but you wouldn't prosecute him because he is insane to believe that he is literal Hitler (there are actually people who believe they are horrible historical figures) or because he holds believes that align with Nazi party.
This guy needs to have the FBI checking him out for possession of CP. Holy shit, the weird fucking hills some people will die on. This should likely end this streamer's career. Who is he arguing with?
LMAO. Guess what? While we make a lot of things with exploitative processes, the products themselves are *not* exploitation. Shirts, cars, electronics, food can be produced without any human suffering. By definition what Vaush defends *is* the exploitation itself. They are not equal or identical.
@@HarryS77 nah, my bad. My defenses went up because I tend to get debate bros riled up over Vaush. Pretty funny joke now that I see it for what it is 👍
Lol love it when the guy on the other end uses 'autistic' as an indicator of dullness or stupidity. Definitely doesn't tarnish his arguments from then on.
I can't believe this guy legitimately said it would be okay if we got permission from the kids once they're adults. So are you saying abusing kids is fine as long as you wait until they turn 18 and give you permission to post it? Even if that made sense, what happens if they don't? What do you do then?
@@longliverocknroll5 Yep. Retroactive consent isn't a thing. Especially if the thing you're trying to "retroactively consent to" happened while you couldn't consent (either because you were a minor, drunk, etc).
Dear god, this poor fool... I want to feel bad for him but he should've known what he was going up against trying to debate BE. He's so brainwashed EDIT: about 40 minutes in now and this is...wild. I was being too charitable with "brainwashed."
it's true when people say that libs likes to isolate and think things in a vacuum without taking into account other factors that would make their position completely indefensible
Damn these debate lords think they sound smart, they sound like precocious undergrad students who think they know everything after taking intro to philosophy. It's so cringe.
Ok so on the topic of exploitation. When I was a kid I worked at my grandmas ranch. I was part of child labor. I would wake up early gather eggs and feed the hens the pigs and the goats. I would not equate that to CSA I’m glad I never went through sexual abuse as a kid. It’s a stupid comparison and it’s disgusting. Vaush has likely never worked as a child, and I hope he’s never been a victim to CSA. This “let’s debate shit we’ve know nothing about” mentality is completely melted. X(
@@Ajente02 you sound malinchista xD “third world shithole” have some pride boot licker. XD anyways born in Mexico I’m indigenous and the work we did was work. :/ matter of fact when I moved to the USA I knew kids in my class who were pulled out of school to work in the fields with their family. All that shit is labor performed by children and it’s not a “uhm my country is a shithole cuz trump said so thing” it’s a capitalism sucks and this is a result of that problem.
@@Ajente02 in Mexico we (indigenous people) own the land. And this is not just chores this is working in the ranch along with the rest of our family. But before we keep going what’s your point? You’re gonna say if it was actually working for someone else’s land it WOULD be as bad as child sexual abuse?
@@anmolt3840051 yea this asshat refuses to acknowledge I mentioned this was at a ranch. I think he’s just an idiot that likes to derail with no insight
“The problem ish you need to understand the context of what he said because CP the same as buying t shirt both are not real things, u need to look at it through a moral framework and thro dialectical materism as Marks wanted it……… -BUT KARL JUNG SAID!”
jesus christ the mental gymnastics this dude is performing to justify C P is mind blowing. How the F could anybody think it is even remotely defendable. This dude is completely missing the point that as a society we have already agreed that sexualizing children in any way is NOT OKAY this dude is basically saying its okay because people buy T shirts lmao.
This was honestly hard to watch, i had to pause it several times. But like gory fight scene in an action movie when you're a kid, even if you instinctively cover your eyes you can't help but peek through the fingers. This was almost an hour of basically bullying. I would feel sorry for the other guy if not for the tiny detail that he was fucking defending the possession of child porn, no wait scratch that he was fucking defending some other guy who'll never care about him opinion because apparently Vaush is a vampire lord and has got fucking zombie thralls. How pathetic is that, you're not defending your shitty opinion, you're defending some other dude's shitty opinion, regurgitating the same meaningless rhethoric like one of those birds that can imitate the sound of words but have no fucking clue of what they mean.
Crazy how Vaush NPCs will go to extreme lengths to defend him. This dude took one philosophy 101 class and thinks he knows better. Imagine defending CP. What a disgusting hill to die on
I am autistic and I am against pedophiles, period.
based. same.
very normal (and based)
same..
Same
Same
This is what it means to be a Vaush fan. Defending child pornography on Vaush's behalf and not even being paid for it. Imagine having this much free time. 🤦🏾♂️
@@omegahaxors9-11
Or he’s just a deluded Vaush fan.
@@omegahaxors9-11
Maybe. But then again, people do idolize others to the point where they think what those clowns say or do has no wrong in it.
FYI: I’ve never watched Vaush streams outside of reviews like the one BE is doing here in this “debate”.
All I know is that he’s a pretty sick individual that should be investigated.
I have a lot of free time and I'd rather spend it slowly sawing my arm off than try to defend any of Vaush's bad takes.
Sorry for the redundancy, I could've just said "Vaush's takes", but then I wouldn't get to emphasize that his takes are consistently bad by pointing out the redundancy.
@@RicardoPetinga No need to excuse your redundancy in this specific case. His takes are so consistently awful that redundancy is not only warranted, it may be required.
Imagine being this depraved.
Finally, a politics streamer for people who hate politics streamers.
i crave for more debates like this. Didn't realize how much i needed it until i saw this one
There are good political streamers. Hasan, CC, LivPosting, LeftFlankVets and so many others
I am happy that your looking at things you hate. Every time you do it I will laugh. :)
@@Alienshade You live inside his walls?
@@Rastloese did you just say Hasan is a GOOD political streamer... You have no brain if you believe anything that comes out of that grifters mouth
defending CP is really the hill they wanna die on huh
@@transsylvanian9100
Vowshites: bUt... cHiNa...
Vaush loves rapeing kids
well that’s where they buried their hard drives. they can’t just leave them
If you think both CP and child labor are both exploitative, then how do you not come out thinking "so both should be stopped"? How fucked up are you if your conclusion is "therefore CP should be allowed too"!
excellent point
Imagine thinking that a fundamental need to keep our economy stable justifies exploitation equally to something purely for entertainment value, or thinking that direct interaction with the exploitation is the same as inadvertently consuming products like shirts made by children. The guy is insane and broken. He’s disgusting for defending CP.
@@nickkemp4979 I would also argue that when you are wearing for example a shirt produced by child labor, you are buying a product made through child exploitation. So you are maybe benefitting from it (the same qualitity shirt might be less expensive), but you are not directly doing the exploitation.
But when you watch child sexual abusive material, then you are at that point exploiting the child, bc other then with the shirt, the material is not only produced with exploitation, but it's consumption is also exploitative. (After all victims of child abuse do not want video of their exploitation going around, that itself is extremely stressing and painful to them.)
child labour is based but cp is cringe
actual real shoeonhead logic
Put see things that both cause harm; one considered normal, one universally stigmatised.
Quite obviously, the universally stigmatised one is the good one now!!!
Wow that guy was NUTS lmao. He tried citing "Destiny's argument" like it's some sort of theoretical law like Einstein's Theory of Relativity
Destiny's Postulate: If child, then porn.
@@ZagrebBundist 😨
Fortunately the judge wont care about Vaush's "axiomatic framework"
Vaush the type of guy to quote Shopenhauer in court to defend himself after the FBI found out CP in his laptop.
I shouldn't be laughing at this, but him saying "let me finish" over and over again while making a case for CP possession is some South Park level fuckery and I love it
I can't believe they think this is philosophy.
Philosophy to them is solely just 'but why tho?'
When empanada yelled about how he won't talk about philosophy 😂
They like to say "philosoply" because it has four syllables.
He said it here folks utilitarianism is about how “ CP will lead us to a better tomorrow “😒😒😒
@@vanish_6064 even for utilitarian, maquiavelian perspective CP still bad
The "hypothetical Destiny argument" fallacy just dropped
Reddit Moment
the destiny gambit
@@СергейКочетов-о3л hypothetical idealism, the opposite of dialectical materialism
Terminally online moment
Fucking Maxwell equations got nothing on the DESTINY'S ARGUMENT
"Reading leftist theory is lame", "philosophy is important for leftists " - A Vaush fan.
And they still don’t actually read philosophy. They just think they’re right because they think about things. Privileged dumbfuckery.
Do these people just not understand that CP is sexual abuse against a child or do they not care?
For the sake of “debating”. Absolutely, mind-numbingly stupid.
Children should be protected. Not exploited so some creep can get off from their trauma. Disgusting.
They do, they just thinks it's okay because sweatshops also used child labor, and most people under capitalism consume commodities that uses sweatshops (almost all big company does), but they don't get that consuming t shirt, shoes or electronics isn't consuming the exploitation exclusively, but CP does
The entire world is hypothetical to them because they've always been oppressors. These are the worst of white "leftists"
"let's assume we can have none exploitative childporn" sorry what?
Let's say, hypothetically...
(Yep his arguing strategy is an alt right trick to absolve blaim)
That "No convincing agument against owning cp" clip is so disturbing to me, not just because of his actual statement, but because he's so aggressive about it. He instantly banned someone who said that it was a bad take and then started yelling to his chat about their feelings getting hurt by what he said. No one who's just talking shit to be edgy gets so emotional and personally invested in these takes.
even if he thought it was a good argument or whatever any rational person would still realize that most people will still have a problem with it. Yet he doesn't he banned someone who wasn't even being aggressive
@@soulplexis Vaush called it a "hot fucking take." Now, in reality it's a dumb fucking take, but you'd think that Vaush would anticipate upsetting people, since that's the point whole damn point of a "hot take". Why is he incensed that his take did its job and provoked people in his audience?
On another note, this is a significant reason I hate hot take culture. Having an opinion has to get a rise out of people, instead of just being a sound observation of the world. And Vaush, aside from likely being a paedophile, stinks of this behavior.
He surely owns CP himself and is being aggressive because pedos like him are inherently aggressive towards children especially
He started banning people because he realized after materializing his thoughts that he had accidentally revealed he has no issue in theory with people possessing CP. His chat rightfully started raising eyebrows and he cut them off before it got too crazy. The fact this guy felt compelled to come on and moan about people who “had cp made of them in the past, like the 80’s” which I suppose is when he thinks it was last legal is insane
The only sane reason to "own" it is if you are about to turn it to the police for evidence so they can examine it to then delete it off your drives when the police are done gathering everything.
Im sorry, i find it hard to keep watching this after the "What if we get permission from the child 30 years later" argument. Its literally "what if the child consents" but with extra steps.
More like it’s ‘child exploitation’ with extra steps. Sort of what I got out of this video. A lot of these people want to always go through the extra steps so they can somehow get around being called out for being directly associated to something. It’s why everything they say just leads to one question to another question to another, etc. so you never admit to it, but is happening. They are leading you without saying they are.
@@NoName-oy2tk and this is a common strategy of the alt right to 'radicalize normies' to their side.
BE: „cp is bad“
This guy: „actually thats a logical fallacy“
😐
"CP is bad"
"Actually, according to my carefully crafted philosophical ethical framework..."
I hate your usage of commas but it looks beautiful compared to the disgusting dribble we just saw from Vaushfanboy99.
@@eleSDSU do you also use Fahrenheit as a measurement?
@@eleSDSU in countries like germany quotes are framed ,,like this" to indicate where a quote starts and ends. may not matter much here, but it makes for a better flow when reading content that heavily and repeatedly uses citations.
Well under a utilitarian framework...
Imagine a normal person finding this
Imagine being a nobody going on a stream to defend a CP defending creep? Bad Empanada continues to be based.
Vaush isn't a creep or a nobudy. And If you defend Vaush your not a nobody your fighting the good fight!
@@Alienshade Your mom called and said you should be doing your homework instead of defending a child predator on RUclips.
@@Alienshade
1) Larp
2) He is a creep. He admitted to jerking off to loli and on a separate occasion admitted to owning a Twitter account that was filled with pedo shit. And before he had a platform in multiple discord discussions identitied with pedos. Also let's not forget how Vaush said that he thought of Poppy as a loli.
He is a creep.
@@Alienshade did you even watch the video you idiot.
@@Alienshadelol yeah right
debate streamers be like "I didnt murder you I constructed a hypothetical arguement about my knife and your chest"
That creep really got up in the morning and said to himself " yeah, going public today to defend a P file"
is anyone else made extremely uncomfortable by hearing thus guy casually use the term "loli" when vaush himself used it to describe someone he sexually harassed? just me?
He seems surprised when BE asks what that is lol, like it’s shocking to him that there are people out there who aren’t familiar with his degenerate nonsense
The data already shows that consumption of CSA materials is correlated with higher CSA recidivism rates. This is information that has been known for decades. It was talked about a lot back when people were questioning if child sex dolls would be a “treatment” for pedophiles. The consensus was that practicing and viewing drawn CSA didn’t directly exploit children, but it did normalize the act for offending pedophiles, and that they could and did get more bold in their offenses irl as the non-exploitative material became uninteresting to them.
Long story short, pedophilia is something that people do not necessarily choose but they do require intense *therapy* and an active intention to not consume or produce CSA. Non-exploitative child pornography is not therapy, it’s an extremely unhealthy coping mechanism that puts real children at risk by desensitizing molestation and rape for offending pedophiles.
Hey, can you link that study please?
I would also like this link or paper name at your earliest convenience
Thank you for making this very cogent point!
@@redmaple1982 any act in porn can be done consensually. sexual consent is impossible with children. so it doesn't open a door to discuss porn in general
@@OMGYavani Porn is inherently exploitative. This is why many of performers are always hooked on drugs and can often die from overdose.
This aged like wine made from the finest grapes harvested in an isolated peaceful Italian valley that was kept in a handmade mrytlewood barrel for 50 years
"We're trying to isolate the variable" in context to ethical consumption of CP is probably not the greatest take of all time
Dude talking like he's doing an exposé on data analysis
>claims to be a consequentialist, not a deontologist
>claims you can defend cp as long as you're consistent about it
I said this same thing to myself in the shower today, while I was thinking about his bullshit "consistent ethics" retort. I'm glad, that others realize this.
@@nineball9746 "rule utilitarianism" bro that's just deontology justified by consequentialism
@@nineball9746 like that was his whole debate with EJ. EJ tried explaining dialectical materialism, while vaush just derailed onto really bad faith deontological ethics.
oh u guys r fuckin philosophy nerds. i love it, where do i start, do i start ?
@@0keo that really depends on what your interests are and what type of philosophy you would like learning about. I think moral philosophy is probably the most 'accessible' starting point for most people
"I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Destiny's argument" is the most terminally online shit i've ever heard
“Why is cp bad?”
Hoo boy.
Well under my axiomatic utilitarian framework......
Why the underlining assumptions made here should not be made. That being abusing children is a bad. We should abuse children!!!!! average vaush fan.
Dude had a folder of CP accidently unleash while on stream. 😂😂😂
This has aged beautifully
This is one of the funniest and most disturbing “debates” I’ve ever listened to. The FBI must have a “Vaush fans” file three feet thick.
“Destiny’s argument” “the Destiny gambit”
this was the most terminally online shit i’ve ever heard
"the destiny gambit" LMFAO hahaha
I'll say this again as I've said elsewhere: "Drawn CP" is used frequently by pedophiles when grooming children. It exists for two purposes: to get pedos off, and as a tool to cause direct harm to children. Any society interested in justice and the prevention of harm coming to children should hunt down and exterminate any "loli", "drawn CP" or whatever, wherever it arises.
Child rape is not just some abstract subject that exists as some kind of hypothetical for debate bros to jerk their philosophy chops with, it's hugely damaging, more pervasive than we care to admit, and the fact that it's the debate sphere's go-to for their thought experiments should be disconcerting and alarming in every way, shape or form for everyone else.
If Vaush knew what was good for him he'd stop talking about CP altogether lol. Surely he can make his basic left-liberal takes without going there.
Well good news, his new fixation is Jewish Cabals in Weimar Germany.
@@robm6645 please say sike
@@robm6645 bruh tell me thats a joke.
@@AnmlPeeweeIsHere in the latest debate with NonCompete
@@ianianianianian Sorry, it's real.
What I expected: He didn't actually defend it
What we got: He defended it and he was right to do so
wild stuff, average Vaush fan
Okay I had to stop after the “what if 30 years later” argument 😂 I would love to give you more watch time but I can’t do this 😂
11:02 Did this person genuinely imagine a situation where victims of filmed child sex abuse would, as adults consent to its distribution to pedophiles??
lol yes, a thing that happens very often i’m sure, and extremely relevant to the discussion. very normal
@@BadEmpanadaLive im sure youre familiar with the Destiny's argument? 🤣🤣🤣
@@Atilla_the_Fun i remember doing stupid exercises like that in my 101 class.
Another beautiful quote is “let's assume we can have none exploitive childporn" my jaw dropped.
I appreciate the efforts to actually confront Vaush on this. But damn, couldn't personally listen to the Vaush -stan dude, and the topic. Had to tap out early.
I don’t blame you, child abuse is triggering. I sat through this mostly to hear how are the stans defending this. Both Voosh and NC didn’t do stellar jobs at the “debate” but NC did the right thing by noping the frack out when Voosh wanted to do hypotheticals of the “Jewish question”. Also Voosh just seems to have a weird disdain for WOC and/or trans women who don’t agree with him.
32:43
@L maybe I’m just a simple engineer who didn’t do philosophy courses in college, but i don’t see value in doing hypotheticals like that. And yeah he asserted later that he thinks there was disproportionate jewish bankers which isn’t true and even if it were (insert screaming witch Meryl Streep from into the woods)
WHOOOOOOO CARES?!? You’re still pushing anti-semitic shit. Stop doing that.
Let's say, hypothetically, Vaush was a Drake fan...
To be fair, he even sounds like a creep. I wouldn't be surprised if he had that stuff on his drives.
The danger of vaush isn't that he's problematic. It's not just that. It's that he is against anything more left than liberalism and he strong arms his audience into resisting becoming any more left than liberalism He is an effective block to the development of socialism in the US. And him growing an audience of conservatives and liberals and centrists doesn't do anything for the development of the left in the western world. Sure you could say leftism in the western world hasn't amounted to much, but his content and fanbase is kneecapping it even more
The only block to the development of socialism in the US is the american society itself. Vaush in the grand scale of things is insignificant.
I think you are giving him way too much credit. There is no one debating online that has any sort of real influence on the country.
Ive been avoiding Vaush for awhile be uase he comes off as liberal Ben Shapiro. And having watch to three videos featuring him, I can say thst his actually just someone that got in the "leftist" through Bernie and Chapo and never learned anything becuase he felt he knew everything there was to know. So Liberal Ben Shaprio.
Some people have said I'm giving Vaush too much credit, but I should clarify that this is among Vaush's growing audience and among people that find their way into every discord and online discussion. That is a lot of influence. And these people's political consciousness is being capped at base liberalism and pseudo intellectualism and debatebro culture. It's not the whole of the US left, but it is significant. You can't go to many online left spaces and not find at least one vaushite either waiting to defend him or being taken aback at some dumb shit you're pointing out that he said. That's what I was saying. And he's just going to get more and more popular and displace other far better left voices with his pseudo intellectual soft left personality cult
In this day and age, it seems even looking at full context is not enough if someone only hears one thing.
A lot of people on this comment thread seem to be like "I can't believe Vaush thinks CP should be legal" and "I can't believe that Vaush thinks CP exploitation and labor exploitation are equivalent" without reconciling that Vaush - very clearly when you synthesize these two ideas - thinks that CP is exploitation. It seems a lot of people are just unable to read between the lines at all and react simply to the most superficial and most shocking part of the statement.
I wonder how many leftists have been tricked into believe that Marx was an anti-semitic or racist because they were incapable of taking Marx's word holistically. Many of these same people would read Karl Marx's "The Jewish Question" on face value without seeing that it is clearly satirical.
The Vaush fan has alot big words for someone who can't make a simple thought.
The argument that they tried to pull out of "What if someone consent to CP made of them later in life" is laterally the worse thing ive heard. This idea that you can agrue from any postion becuase of logic is just making people dumber. And, appeartly, amoral.
I dont understand why people like this can't just go "yeah I like Vaush usually but that take was wrong" 🤣
"Do you think that in certain cases it's ok to defend CP? -Yes of course!" *dead silence* lol wtf....
in what universe is this even okay
“Excuse me, are y’all with the cult?”
Vaush fans: “Vaush doesn’t defend CP. if you look at the full cont--“
“Yeah, this is it.”
i burst out laughing at "the destiny argument" lmao
don't forget the "destiny gambit"
Vaush fans are like the badguys from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
"I have created an alternate fictional reality where I am correct! I win!"
This was painful to watch, this dude is simping for the wrong influencer 😂😂😂
there's no 'correct' influencer to simping for tho
@@huseyinbalc375 right, but it was especially cringe when this guy was trying to do philosophy 101 on real world examples and the fact there’s material consequences. It’s just a strange hill to die on 🤷🏻♂️
Or just don't simp
@@chenzomutumbo9140 Right, I suppose I have to work on my material since that was the butt of the joke 🤷🏻♂️
@@huseyinbalc375 Yeah, but better to simp for a hot girl rather than a hipster neckbeard
BE just going “silence! be silent!” cracked my shit up
They asked: "Why do you think child pornography is bad?"
You said: "Because it exploits children."
They then asked you why child pornography is bad if it exploits children.
You said you don't need to explain why the exploitation of children is bad.
You then asked: "Why is genocide bad?"
They said: "Because it exploits and kills people".
They actually conceded that exploitation in and of itself is bad, but still agitated you to explain why, and specifically in the context of child pornography.
This "debate" is awesome. It's just "cp is bad" and someone with a ridiculous parasoical relationship trying to opine on what his favorite streamer secretly means when he is obviously in support of child porn. Also, would love if someone with more energy than me counted the amount of times he said "this is the problem" when BadEmpanada didn't let him go on some hypothetical tangent.
"The destiny argument" lmfao what is this they're now making formulas/theories for debates
The Destinian Defense opening with the Destiny gambit
Love how he says he's just being consistent with consequentialism as if consequentialism wasn't batshit stupid in the first place. Also, the things he advocates DO have negative consequences, so he's not even consistent.
Why is consequentialism stupid?
@@Adraria8 bc moral theories developed way past ancient ideas. no one who really studies moral theories will call themselves simply as "consequentialist". this is like someone being simply "socialist". consequentialism glosses over the intent and therefore can't be used to create fair judgements. two examples when consequentialism fails you might be interested in:
1. if someone breaks into a house, sees a sleeping person inside and leaves in fear, but later we find out that by leaving the door/window open they let out a gas out of the house, therefore saving the person inside from suffocation - all around, good consequences, but the person breaking into the house should not be considered a good person for doing so
2. (that's the better one) if we are somehow able to perfectly copy Hitler of 1944 down to his very atoms, consequentialists would say to you that we should prosecute this copy because he might do bad things in the future according to his believes. people who believe that we should judge people exclusively by intentions will say that we should prosecute the copy because he believes that he did all this horrible things. better person will say that none of it matters and we should not prosecute this person as he did nothing wrong - your neighbor might believe he is a literal Hitler, your neighbor might be genuine Nazi. but you wouldn't prosecute him because he is insane to believe that he is literal Hitler (there are actually people who believe they are horrible historical figures) or because he holds believes that align with Nazi party.
VAUSH IS NEXT
These people shouldn't be allowed to be around any child.
The first 15 seconds and it's already a train wreck, this is why I subscribed
This guy needs to have the FBI checking him out for possession of CP. Holy shit, the weird fucking hills some people will die on. This should likely end this streamer's career. Who is he arguing with?
Honestly someone should check this guys harddrive
Okay, so you want to defend CP...
To quote Vaush, the greatest intelectual of our time:
Why?
but why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
Why?
but why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
but why?
but why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
why?
butt hurt?
but why?
LMAO. Guess what? While we make a lot of things with exploitative processes, the products themselves are *not* exploitation. Shirts, cars, electronics, food can be produced without any human suffering. By definition what Vaush defends *is* the exploitation itself. They are not equal or identical.
@@HarryS77 I'm not sure what you mean
@@HarryS77 nah, my bad. My defenses went up because I tend to get debate bros riled up over Vaush. Pretty funny joke now that I see it for what it is 👍
Hypothetically anything can be justified or not in a hypothetical world but that doesn't change the situation in our real material world.
Now this is gonna be a banger!
Am I the only one who noticed that at 33:48 he says "pedophilia is inherently wrong" like its an unreasonable thing to say.
That Yakubian tricknology at work
"Buying a shirt is totally direct exploitation; you're creating demand when you buy the shirt!"
*laughs in Atacama Desert*
Momento chileno.
Cagao' de risa
One is a product of exploitation, the other product is exploitation.
One of them is inherently exploitative though, that's the difference.
@@dreye3215 i think that’s what they meant with this
Lol love it when the guy on the other end uses 'autistic' as an indicator of dullness or stupidity. Definitely doesn't tarnish his arguments from then on.
@@antipsychotic451 well then, as an autist myself, gotta say- that's the most autistic way an autistic guy can ask a question. I do it all the time.
Axiomatize your moral framework at the low low cost of your time and dignity
Least confused Vaushoid
Hilarious and painful at the same time
A literal debate pervert
And I thought watching Vaush "debates" was painful
Bro said the destiny argument 💀💀💀💀
There are sources for morally acceptable shirts, there is no source for morally acceptable CP
For the drawn argument, artists se references. Where do you think those sickos got references from?
I can't believe this guy legitimately said it would be okay if we got permission from the kids once they're adults. So are you saying abusing kids is fine as long as you wait until they turn 18 and give you permission to post it? Even if that made sense, what happens if they don't? What do you do then?
@@longliverocknroll5 Yep. Retroactive consent isn't a thing. Especially if the thing you're trying to "retroactively consent to" happened while you couldn't consent (either because you were a minor, drunk, etc).
Imagine trying to defend chind porn on technicalities.
Dear god, this poor fool... I want to feel bad for him but he should've known what he was going up against trying to debate BE. He's so brainwashed
EDIT: about 40 minutes in now and this is...wild. I was being too charitable with "brainwashed."
They kept talking over each other. I don't think I heard a single full sentence without one of them interrupting.
If you use the word “context“, I’m just gonna assume you got a hard drive in a secret compartment full of darkness.
“Aristotle was a dumbass” favorite quote .
This man took around the bush to 8 rounds in the octagon and still got KOd
it's true when people say that libs likes to isolate and think things in a vacuum without taking into account other factors that would make their position completely indefensible
I have no idea what this has to do with "libs."
Capitalism in a nutshell. Only seems logical because of those magic words: "ceterus parabus"
Desperately trying to defend his point by spamming big words
Damn these debate lords think they sound smart, they sound like precocious undergrad students who think they know everything after taking intro to philosophy. It's so cringe.
I was waiting for something like this but I thought it would be directly with Vaush, I guess this is the next best thing though
Ok so on the topic of exploitation. When I was a kid I worked at my grandmas ranch. I was part of child labor. I would wake up early gather eggs and feed the hens the pigs and the goats. I would not equate that to CSA I’m glad I never went through sexual abuse as a kid. It’s a stupid comparison and it’s disgusting. Vaush has likely never worked as a child, and I hope he’s never been a victim to CSA. This “let’s debate shit we’ve know nothing about” mentality is completely melted. X(
@@Ajente02 yet Americans have no problem calling it child labor. :/ see it’s only called chores when your family is white and it happens in the USA
@@Ajente02 you sound malinchista xD “third world shithole” have some pride boot licker. XD anyways born in Mexico I’m indigenous and the work we did was work. :/ matter of fact when I moved to the USA I knew kids in my class who were pulled out of school to work in the fields with their family. All that shit is labor performed by children and it’s not a “uhm my country is a shithole cuz trump said so thing” it’s a capitalism sucks and this is a result of that problem.
@@Ajente02 in Mexico we (indigenous people) own the land. And this is not just chores this is working in the ranch along with the rest of our family. But before we keep going what’s your point? You’re gonna say if it was actually working for someone else’s land it WOULD be as bad as child sexual abuse?
@@Ajente02 ok. 🙄 so you're just commenting to smell your own farts?
@@anmolt3840051 yea this asshat refuses to acknowledge I mentioned this was at a ranch. I think he’s just an idiot that likes to derail with no insight
Guest: I'm building a hypothetical argument here
BE: the fuck you are 🤣🤣
"He wasn't saying that and if he was saying that that's not what he meant"
This guy's arguments in a nutshell.
“The problem ish you need to understand the context of what he said because CP the same as buying t shirt both are not real things, u need to look at it through a moral framework and thro dialectical materism as Marks wanted it……… -BUT KARL JUNG SAID!”
Love how this CP defender brings up Destiny, Amos Vee and Vaush as credible’ sources to ‘destroy’ godempanada
Also LETMEFINISH! And YOUHAVEN’TRESPONDEDTOMYARGUMENT!
jesus christ the mental gymnastics this dude is performing to justify C P is mind blowing. How the F could anybody think it is even remotely defendable. This dude is completely missing the point that as a society we have already agreed that sexualizing children in any way is NOT OKAY this dude is basically saying its okay because people buy T shirts lmao.
This was honestly hard to watch, i had to pause it several times. But like gory fight scene in an action movie when you're a kid, even if you instinctively cover your eyes you can't help but peek through the fingers. This was almost an hour of basically bullying. I would feel sorry for the other guy if not for the tiny detail that he was fucking defending the possession of child porn, no wait scratch that he was fucking defending some other guy who'll never care about him opinion because apparently Vaush is a vampire lord and has got fucking zombie thralls. How pathetic is that, you're not defending your shitty opinion, you're defending some other dude's shitty opinion, regurgitating the same meaningless rhethoric like one of those birds that can imitate the sound of words but have no fucking clue of what they mean.
out with the ableism so fast lmao
Him talking while the clips were playing annoyed me so much.
Crazy how Vaush NPCs will go to extreme lengths to defend him. This dude took one philosophy 101 class and thinks he knows better. Imagine defending CP. What a disgusting hill to die on
I doubt he did that, he just heard Vaush talk about philosophy
Yeah you're being much too charitable, I *failed* a philosophy 101 class and I have a much better grasp of it than this tool
They even do the Vaush "HOWEVER" shit when they're about to say something disgusting
"Sophist Simp"
Imagine being a Vaush fan. Lol
Dude's at home wearing a Joe Biden shirt.