ADC's require AD, atkspeed & crit chance, Yuun tal requires AD, atkspeed & crit chance, and for what a bleed that isn't even true damage. Not too bad but definitely not a piority.
Yep, anything less than 75% and its unreliable but building it as your 4th crit item doesnt feel impactful. Too little abilities from ADCs can actually proc the effect despite critting so most likely we will have to wait until the item is getting its rework to be useful.
I've been thinking this too as an aphelios otp, it has be be last slot because you need crit chance for it to work and at that point I'd rather get utility or survivability as we have enough damage by then.
IMO, what this item should do, is give high AD, low AS ADCs (who also somewhat weave in abilities) like Jhin, Corki, Ezreal an option to deal more persistent damage
I think it was designed as a crit amp for on-hit attackers such as kog'maw and kaisa. Giving Yun Tal attack speed would help a lot with that archtype (guinsoos, navori or hurricane, yun tal core?), but as you said riot prob forgot about the item lol.
i found a build with varus that uses it pretty well since his ad scales with as which yuntal needs, it goes PD,Yuntal,Runaans and the last 2 items are pretty flexible, and since he gets ad from his attack speed it allows him to build full attackspeed so you can apply tons of stacks of bleed while also having decently high AD
At full build, it actually outperforms Collector. The only edge Collector has over it the fact that it's rushable with early lethality. I'd still much rather build Yun Tal with IE rush or IE 2nd, it just does WAY more late game
@@Raklalol IE is really not a skippable item for crit champions. It was made to be built every game as the best payoff for crit. While Yun Tal is also a crit payoff item, that doesn't make it an alternative to IE because the decision tree would be "do I want the best crit payoff item or the second best?" The decision tree is supposed to be "do I want the immediate power of a lethality item, or the late game power of another crit payoff item?" Items that fulfill the same niche are not meant to be chosen between, they are meant to be stacked.
I think the item could work if they gave it the old Navoris passive (increased ability damage based on crit chance). They kinda had a theme when removing mythic items at the start of S14 with splitting the effects of previous mythic items up; for example Yoomu's Ghostblade was split into Yoomu's Ghostblade (for the active/passive MS) and Opportunity (the out-of-combat bonus Lethality) or how Jak'Sho was split into Jak'Sho (for the bonus MR/Armor) and Unending Despair (for the healing). This way they would have split Navoris into Navoris Flickerblades and Yun Tal, which would allow champions like GP, Xayah or Nilah to re-enter the meta (although I would rather see S8 Ardent Censer return than having another Nilah meta). Additionally, if Yun Tal with Navori passive would be too weak, they could keep the bleed on top, to give it some competition with IE, as IE was just better than Navoris in S13 in terms of damage (and since Yun Tal wouldnt have the cool down reduction passive it would need something to give it back some power), but change it so that rather instead of every crit applying a bleed, make it so that every 2nd or 3rd AA applies one, and make the damage (and maybe the duration too?) scale with crit, so that you'd profit in 2 ways from building full crit with new Yun Tals. In this new version the item would be way better to buy early because of Navoris passive (you'd buy it second most likely like IE), and also because now the bleed applies no matter how high your crit chance is, which further improves its early game.
That's a good point, although I'd rather see this item act like an anti-tank item. So, maybe instead of applying a bleed stack every 2nd or 3rd AA, it could deal true damage every time it crits. There could be a cooldown if it ends up being OP. What do you think?
I always build yun tal as the final item when i play senna. My build is bloodsong, swifties, black cleaver, rfc, infinity edge and yun tal. Works well for me.
i like building it in place of shieldbow on yasuo or yone into really tanky comps. if you're building it WITH infinity edge it doesn't really feel terrible and the bleed damage does help a bit but as others said the bleed isn't even really that great until late game. honestly i think if they just buffed its early game a little bit it'd be great.
i love yun tal, and i always buy it on champs when i go full ad crit build, especially lucian it has insane dps. I go it 3rd item every game on lucian and its a huge spike
@@bjrn9019 His point was that yun tal is a worse IE in general, so building yun tal first would be inting because you delayed your damage, so you build IE first already proved some of his point about the item, and I can tell you that building Yun Tal second is also inting too because you cannot proc it's passive often so you already losing in value compare to build collector or essence reaver, and I can also say that your main powerspike came from building IE first and not from Yun tal, IE is a huge powerspike item hence the price higher than other items, so building it first is either you already super fed or you on low elo bro, so Yun Tal second or not does not matter since the powerspike from IE already good enough to deal with anything
Rengars Q critically strikes. So is yuntal always procced by rengar Q? And does rengar keep his ferocity stacks since hes technically still in combat as long as yuntal bleed is active?
Ive tried it several time in the last couple day I think it do fine it just require a greater understanding of the damage that your going to do People dont often hit run get a kill They hit, get a kill then run Since ive started using it my Kda went up Issue is it a 5th - 6th slot item and game dont last this long But if we talk about true damage optimization it probably the item u will end ur build with
@@Raklalol jinx. Its a new build since kraken dosent give crit anymore. Rush IE Runnan or rfc Ldr or mortal Yungtao or sheildbow Ga. You get 50% crit with 2 items lol. I find it better then her new leathality build
item lowkey sleeper 5th item on Samira. Collector > IE > BT > MR/LDR > YT skip boots most games and play for cc. preforms slightly better than SB right now. I think damage in more important than the piss shield SB gives you. It is reflected in the WR.
this item requires high ad attack speed and crit chance, so it takes multiple items before yun tal even becomes a semi usable item itself
I totally agree. For what it takes to build, it should be more than semi usable
ADC's require AD, atkspeed & crit chance, Yuun tal requires AD, atkspeed & crit chance, and for what a bleed that isn't even true damage. Not too bad but definitely not a piority.
Yep, anything less than 75% and its unreliable but building it as your 4th crit item doesnt feel impactful. Too little abilities from ADCs can actually proc the effect despite critting so most likely we will have to wait until the item is getting its rework to be useful.
I totally agree with you
Aphelios on yun tal is cracked
and i think hes the only one that can abuse it
I've been thinking this too as an aphelios otp, it has be be last slot because you need crit chance for it to work and at that point I'd rather get utility or survivability as we have enough damage by then.
I'm not an adc main, but I played a few games with Aphelios to test the item, It felt exactly like you said
Imagine being deleted by anything, and you delay your damage
awful
i only remember the item just because it's ixtal themed and has "Yun Tal" in it
For real
IMO, what this item should do, is give high AD, low AS ADCs (who also somewhat weave in abilities) like Jhin, Corki, Ezreal an option to deal more persistent damage
That sounds interesting, especially now with all the item nerfs
I think it was designed as a crit amp for on-hit attackers such as kog'maw and kaisa. Giving Yun Tal attack speed would help a lot with that archtype (guinsoos, navori or hurricane, yun tal core?), but as you said riot prob forgot about the item lol.
This might be the most unsuccessful item release of the entire League of Legends history
i found a build with varus that uses it pretty well since his ad scales with as which yuntal needs, it goes PD,Yuntal,Runaans and the last 2 items are pretty flexible, and since he gets ad from his attack speed it allows him to build full attackspeed so you can apply tons of stacks of bleed while also having decently high AD
That's actually smart, but does it work better than normal builds?
@swepilol i dont know but its very fun to run
Pretty sure Yuntal is supposed to be a collector alternative, not an IE alternative.
At full build, it actually outperforms Collector. The only edge Collector has over it the fact that it's rushable with early lethality. I'd still much rather build Yun Tal with IE rush or IE 2nd, it just does WAY more late game
Never thought of it, why do you think so?
@@Raklalol IE is really not a skippable item for crit champions. It was made to be built every game as the best payoff for crit. While Yun Tal is also a crit payoff item, that doesn't make it an alternative to IE because the decision tree would be "do I want the best crit payoff item or the second best?" The decision tree is supposed to be "do I want the immediate power of a lethality item, or the late game power of another crit payoff item?" Items that fulfill the same niche are not meant to be chosen between, they are meant to be stacked.
@@RaklalolIt also costs the same price, thus competing with collector for a slot
I think the item could work if they gave it the old Navoris passive (increased ability damage based on crit chance). They kinda had a theme when removing mythic items at the start of S14 with splitting the effects of previous mythic items up; for example Yoomu's Ghostblade was split into Yoomu's Ghostblade (for the active/passive MS) and Opportunity (the out-of-combat bonus Lethality) or how Jak'Sho was split into Jak'Sho (for the bonus MR/Armor) and Unending Despair (for the healing). This way they would have split Navoris into Navoris Flickerblades and Yun Tal, which would allow champions like GP, Xayah or Nilah to re-enter the meta (although I would rather see S8 Ardent Censer return than having another Nilah meta). Additionally, if Yun Tal with Navori passive would be too weak, they could keep the bleed on top, to give it some competition with IE, as IE was just better than Navoris in S13 in terms of damage (and since Yun Tal wouldnt have the cool down reduction passive it would need something to give it back some power), but change it so that rather instead of every crit applying a bleed, make it so that every 2nd or 3rd AA applies one, and make the damage (and maybe the duration too?) scale with crit, so that you'd profit in 2 ways from building full crit with new Yun Tals. In this new version the item would be way better to buy early because of Navoris passive (you'd buy it second most likely like IE), and also because now the bleed applies no matter how high your crit chance is, which further improves its early game.
That's a good point, although I'd rather see this item act like an anti-tank item. So, maybe instead of applying a bleed stack every 2nd or 3rd AA, it could deal true damage every time it crits. There could be a cooldown if it ends up being OP. What do you think?
@@Raklalol that would be cool as well. Maybe it could have old LDR passive+the bleed?
Sounds interesting :D I guess we'll have to see what Riot does with it
I always build yun tal as the final item when i play senna. My build is bloodsong, swifties, black cleaver, rfc, infinity edge and yun tal. Works well for me.
I'm curious, isn't it better to go with support items rather than damage items on Senna this patch?
i like building it in place of shieldbow on yasuo or yone into really tanky comps. if you're building it WITH infinity edge it doesn't really feel terrible and the bleed damage does help a bit but as others said the bleed isn't even really that great until late game. honestly i think if they just buffed its early game a little bit it'd be great.
I feel like it makes more sense to build it on Yasuo and Yone than ADCs, buffing the early game would be great
i love yun tal, and i always buy it on champs when i go full ad crit build, especially lucian it has insane dps. I go it 3rd item every game on lucian and its a huge spike
Do you also build Infinity Edge with this build?
@@Raklalol yeah i do, i go IE first item and then either yun tal, collector or essence reaver second
@@bjrn9019 sadly you just proved the man point
@@jeffaymorello8267 how? explain pls
@@bjrn9019 His point was that yun tal is a worse IE in general, so building yun tal first would be inting because you delayed your damage, so you build IE first already proved some of his point about the item, and I can tell you that building Yun Tal second is also inting too because you cannot proc it's passive often so you already losing in value compare to build collector or essence reaver, and I can also say that your main powerspike came from building IE first and not from Yun tal, IE is a huge powerspike item hence the price higher than other items, so building it first is either you already super fed or you on low elo bro, so Yun Tal second or not does not matter since the powerspike from IE already good enough to deal with anything
Old Draven passive:)
Exactly :))
Rengars Q critically strikes. So is yuntal always procced by rengar Q? And does rengar keep his ferocity stacks since hes technically still in combat as long as yuntal bleed is active?
That's an interesting question, I can't test it right now, but if you can let us know
@swepilol okay so I just tested it. Yes rengar Q always proccs yuntal!!
But the ferocity stack duration doesn't get extended D:
Imagine if the ferocity duration extended :o
Ive tried it several time in the last couple day
I think it do fine it just require a greater understanding of the damage that your going to do
People dont often hit run get a kill
They hit, get a kill then run
Since ive started using it my Kda went up
Issue is it a 5th - 6th slot item and game dont last this long
But if we talk about true damage optimization it probably the item u will end ur build with
On which champions did you try it?
I just build it last to get crit to 100% unless i need sheild bow.
On which champions do you build it?
@@Raklalol jinx. Its a new build since kraken dosent give crit anymore.
Rush IE
Runnan or rfc
Ldr or mortal
Yungtao or sheildbow
Ga.
You get 50% crit with 2 items lol. I find it better then her new leathality build
I build it 4th item on xayah along with collecter 1st item securing kills is much easier.
Maybe even small ks'ing
Collector and Yun Tal sounds like a really good combination for ks lul
@@Raklalol Does help snowball when you get all the kills but building it 2nd is discouraging with the price and having only 3 effects
At this price the item really needs some buffs/changes, there are simply better alternatives in the shop
item lowkey sleeper 5th item on Samira. Collector > IE > BT > MR/LDR > YT skip boots most games and play for cc. preforms slightly better than SB right now. I think damage in more important than the piss shield SB gives you. It is reflected in the WR.