The Musical Stephen Sondheim Wished He Never Wrote - Extended Interview (2009)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- On 13 October 2010, Stephen Sondheim sat down with Channel 4's Matthew Cain for an in-depth interview looking back on his life's work. The composer and lyricist, considered to be one of the most significant figures in 20th Century musical theatre, was in London to attend a retrospective of 50 years of his work. Having just turned 80, Sondheim had also released a book to coincide with the anniversary, 'Finishing the Hat: The Collected Lyrics of Stephen Sondheim'.
Reflecting on his long and celebrated career, Sondheim discussed his beginnings under the mentorship of Oscar Hammerstein, his work with Leonard Bernstein on West Side Story, and the play he wished he'd never written. he reflected on how the musical theatre industry in America compared with Britain, and how the industry had changed since he was starting out. He gave advice to young writers on the best and worst reasons to write. And he pondered the state of the world - particularly the influence of modern technology on people's sense of identity and community.
#StephenSondheim #Sondheim #MusicalTheatre #Musical #Musicals #Theatre #WestSideStory #IntoTheWoods #Broadway #WestEnd
To license the footage featured in this clip, follow the link below:
www.gettyimage...
To search the ITN Archive collection on Getty Images, follow the link below:
www.gettyimage...
🎥 Subscribe to our RUclips channel (tap the bell icon and stay up to date with all the latest ITN Archive videos!) - / @itnarchive
🎥 Follow us on Twitter - / itnarchive
🎥 Like us on Facebook - / itnarchiveitnp
🎥 Check out our TikTok - / itnarchive1955
Throughout his career, Sondheim paid us, his audiences, the enormous compliment of thinking we are as smart as he is. We have all benefited from that.
"I'd rather have an audience like what I write than dislike what I write but primarily i just want to write so that's what counts..." RIP THE GOAT!
I think Sunday in the park “ putting it together “ really shows his experience trying to balance commercial considerations with the idea of artistry
Sondheim: Less is more.
Also Sondheim: Pardonmeiseverybodyherebecauseifeverybody'shereI'dliketothankyouallforcomingtotheweddingBLESS THIS DAYI'dappreciateyougoingevenmoreTODAAAY IS FOR AMY
also: into the woods
Also Sondheim: Content dictates form.
This is so real. The industry won't give young musical theater people a chance in the way they might've when he was young. They're worried about money so they focus on what will bring in money. Which is counterproductive to what could be an evolving art form.
Sondheim did have some advantages being like a son to Hammerstein. Granted the talent is gigantic, but connections help.
Sondheim is a great interview subject. It's a given that he's deeply intelligent and articulate, but he's also cheerful and generous.
Yeah, he's a real mensch.
And this interviewer is good at his job, so we get more information on Sondheim than we had
🥹🥰🥰
I agree!!! He is SO smart but also SO generous and congenial!
Such a pleasure to listen to him speak.
You are missed, sir!
Watching and listening to a genius that is so humble, is humbling. I love Stephen Sondheim 🎼🎭
All I have to say is... Wow! What words of wisdom. He is truly missed.
Certainly one of the best interviews with Sondheim: a gracious and articulate man. What an amazing legacy of work 🏆
When the “South Park” movie came out, Sondheim genuinely said it was the best musical made in years.
Stone and Parker said, “Thanks, you wrote a few good ones yourself…”
I suspect he must have really liked "It's Easy, Mmmkay," because the rhyming and lyrics in that number are ingenious.
😂😂😂
He never wanted to spoon feed his audience, he had respect that the audience was sophisticated enough to be treated with respect by not hitting the moral of the story with a jammer over the audiences head. His love of mathmetatics is closely related with sequences where the audience hears each line of equations where it all adds up in a predictable fashion. His mind was so fascinating never not knowing how to explain precisely his feeling on obstacles and delights in problem solving.a humble man yet knows he carried it for decades. The pioneers knew they learned by doing. Get it out for the audience to see if your writing works. With less prep time known materialstheres less risks but less bang for the writers abilities buck. Economics , 12 million to get it off the ground is ridiculous. But universal.
One of his “hardest” musicals was Passion. It was a dark subject, not necessarily likable characters, and no hummable tunes. But it was probably one of his greatest works (my personal favorite along with A Little Night Music). It’s so moving and deeply felt.
I could hear this man talk for HOURS.
You didn't need the clickbait headline - I'd have watched this anyway
So many great Artists see their work so differently than their admirers.
Stephen is no exception to this.
It’s always the music or movie that you love and the artist talks about how painful the time was creating that. Or the stress almost did them in
I remember hearing Mick Robson talk about the stress of “Uptown Funk” causing him to go bald while writing it.
It was a huge hit.
What an extraordinary mind! What a gifted, intelligent, eloquent and interesting human being. Sincere, and most certainly, not arrogant. GOAT, up there comfortably in the echelons with the very best exponents of theatre tradition.
I love the lyrics to “America.” It reminds me of the patter of a Cole Porter song.
The lyrics to America would never be allowed to be sung publicly today.
@@mzmiller52 Utter nonsense. West Side Story is performed all across the country every year, with "America" included.
I so wish I could’ve met him! What a pleasure it would be just to sit down and talk with him. May his memory be a blessing!
Such an incredible creator and pioneer of the theatre arts. Such a shame there wasn't a better interviewer.
It has always disappointed me that Mr.Sondheim never had good things to say about Do I Hear A Waltz. It may be flawed but it was the very first Broadway show I ever saw and I constantly listen to the OBC and remember the impact it had on me and still does...not just because it was my first show but also because I really like it. I have been to Venice a number of times and each time I start singing "Someone Woke Up" as I wander through the streets and campos.
I think the story of *Do I Hear a Waltz?,* which in effect asks audiences to endorse infidelity as a positive good, was probably very challenging for an American audience in 1965, and very off-brand for Richard Rodgers, who was known for the wholesome, romantic shows he wrote with Oscar Hammerstein. It's a great score, though, and the only one produced by the clash of two theatre legends (Rodgers and Sondheim). I think there's a good chance, now that Sondheim is no longer around to trash-talk it at every opportunity, that it may eventually find an appreciative audience -- perhaps even in a full-scale Broadway revival.
I personally believe the common trope about Rodgers' shows being "wholesome" is misplaced. Many of the shows he wrote had very much "adult" themes, complicated moral situations and ambivalent characters. Perhaps the Hollywood adaptations of some of these shows flattened out these aspects, but the original shows were often dark and complex. @@oliverbrownlow5615
I think it left a sour taste in Stephen Sondheim's mouth for a couple of reasons. First, and foremost, he really didn't want to write just lyrics. He wanted to compose as well. He only agreed to the project because he felt he owed it to Oscar Hammerstein. Secondly, his vision for the show was completely at odds with that of Richard Rodgers. Unfortunately for Sondheim, Rodgers mostly got his way. Personally, I don't think it's a bad show, but I also don't think it's a great show. It's a serviceable show. I think Sondheim overdid the complaining about it for personal reasons, that may or may not be justified. I have the original cast recording, and that is definitely not where the show is most flawed. It's in the libretto.
Do I Hear A Waltz Was Great.
Elizabeth Allen was Wonderful. She had a beautiful Voice.
@@johnflynn9619 Good, maybe. Great, no. Oklahoma! was great. South Pacific was great. Hello, Dolly! was great. Fiddler On The Roof was great. Do I Hear A Waltz? comes nowhere near them in terms of greatness.
he's right, The Time of the Cuckoo/Summertime did not need to be made into a musical. But I'm glad they did. I just listened to the musical Do I Hear a Waltz and loved the score and lyrics.
Such a wise man in so many ways -- not just quoting Juvenal either. Sondheim's insights into the need for knowing one's craft, working with other people and their ideas, the economics of theatre and live culture of all sorts and how being swamped in the 'digital age' was set to worsen were spot on in this interview.
His strong view that Britain needs to maintain live performance, especially of the spoken or sung word, showed that he valued the deep core of creativity in English being in Britain rather than the USA and touched on reasons why. The breakdown of community qua community was starting in urban America when his career was reaching its peak and he refused to dumb down. Yet it takes a genius to know that simple and spare language is the antithesis of dumbing down, thus the language used in musicals with complex, dark plots never became sophisticated in the negative sense of that word used as a verb.
Shakespeare and Mozart faced similar difficulties in their times and we have been so fortunate to have the work of this man in our time. Bernstein did not choose Sondheim for WSS's words by accident, no matter how young Sondheim was in 1955.
This interview is pure treasure.
Myself, I'm rather impressed with the lyrics to "America" from West Side Story.
Either his judgment is faulty or mine is.
I'd say HIS judgement is off.... he likes "Sunday in the Park...."
super tight interview both sides well done. No one wrote for the chorus like Sondheim..
He’s so critical of himself , comes from his need to grow. He grows evenvwhen he doesn’t feel he has stretched his talent when he does. He will never be satisfied,bathe curse of a genius . That over used noun / adjective . Other over used word that applies to him is Iconic.
This is profound. Thank you. ❤
I couldn’t agree more- genius in this case is an understatement.
Such a genuine mensch (and one of my heroes). ZT"l Stephen - you left a great legacy. I saw Sweeney Todd in London in 1980 and was hooked on his lyrics and the complexity of his music.
Thank you for the upload!
Genius, genius, genius. His work was amazing is amazing and so deeply profound.
I’m crying! I miss him! Thank God we have his amazing work to cherish and enjoy. (Btw, as for “cold,” that always struck me, as an epithet, to be a substitution for “too intelligent for the hoi polloi “ - and it’s usually used by some critic, NOT the public)
I think, that the Italian musicologist and conductor Alberto Zedda found the right term, which fit both Sondheim's and Zedda's case, Rossini. He talked about 'affetti nascosti', 'hidden feelings', which only come to live in performance.
super tight interview both sides well done
Fortunately, audiences were far less critical of "West Side Story" than Sondheim was.
West Side Story is awful.
@@cathydrumobich9045 Wow. That's definitely a minority opinion.
@@cathydrumobich9045 You should of said in your opinion!
@@cathydrumobich9045lol. Its overture is better than the last 30 years of musical theatre combined.
@@cathydrumobich9045your opinion is skewed. Given the time it was written it had fantastic music, the most amazing lyrics - both of which still stand 70 years later. The dancing was far beyond anything done today and the cast were all fantastic.
I didn't bother with the remake (and, in fact, would question why even make it when one can't improve on perfection)!
Sondheim was pure genius! Miss him so much!❤
E. F. Schumacher wrote the book, “Small is Beautiful”, which popularized the concept of “Less is More”.
It used to be that movies were based off of Broadway shows. Now, Broadway shows are based off of movies. And they transform those movies into musicals. It’s almost all musicals anymore.
And there mostly terrible
I like him talking about jamming together lyrics into America when this is the man who wrote 'Not Getting Married' 😅 (although i understand that lyrical genius of that song and honestly if done well you really can follow every word)
I think “Not Getting Married” works better as the music is simpler than “America”. It is closer to the G&S’s patter songs, especially “My Eyes Are Fully Open” from Ruddigore. Repeated notes, repeated notes patterns in one metre are better than Bernstein’s rhythmic alternation. It’s great dance music (so unsurprised it was originally a dance composition) but singing clever words, clever patterns. I can see why Sondheim would have done it differently if he had had more experience. But the lyrics are good, maybe too good for a song where music and rhythm dominate. I wish I knew more of Sondheim but he marries the words and music as well as Sullivan did with Gilbert.
No one wrote for the chorus like Sondheim.
It's cool that Sondheim helped mentor Larson and Sondheim gets a shoutout in Rent
And Sondheim is an important part of Tick Tick Boom!
He didn’t “ get Elaine” missed her emotional first reading on tape in company album . The form is preset and wants the actors to deliver to his ears what he has envisioned.
Hi ITN Archive! Stephen Sondheim's Finishing The Hat is a masterclass on how to do a difficult thing (like writing a musical) the same way that you would eat an elephant: one bite at a time :D
What a wonderfully resonant speaking voice Sondheim has... so much in contrast with the limp tones of the interviewer.
Broadly speaking American culture is surface and ego, that's why Americans have a resonant vocal tone. In much of the rest of the World people aren't so consumed by how they appear to others or are so vapid intellectually so vocalisation takes a back seat to content.
and what a genius !
Acts of Creation such as those this man accomplished are as mana from Heaven, affirming that it is possible to Do Good even in a world such as this one.
Stephen Sondheim's estate is suing the RNC for using "Send In The Clowns" as their 2024 Campaign theme song and not paying any royalties.
🤦
Thursday 13th October 2010
Even the lyrics he considered bad are a million times better than most others
West side story when it began was groundbreaking my friend went to see it with his father
who was so shocked he walked out in the middle
Do you know what about it drove him away? I've heard of similar reactions and they all seemed to be reacting to something different.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏❤
A beautiful discussion of why Artificial Intelligence will fail at art.
I like the lyrics to "America". I'm surprised he says he doesn't.
When he rhymes grime, time, and crime with "You forget I'm in America" - it's truly brilliant and funny.
They take a pretty dated, sentimental attitude about Puerto Ricans, and no one would write something like that now. However, in the context of the late 1950s, even making Latinos a major part of a Broadway show seemed progressive and even radical.
So everyone has seen Schmigadoon?
yessssss, brilliant ❤
@@marietarnowski8761 Unfortunately Season 3 has been cancelled.
$110 Broadway average? When, 20 years ago?
Keep in mind, this interview was recorded 14 years ago - not quite 20, but close.
What a beautiful brilliant down to earth man! Just check out my picture, can you guess what my favorite Sondheim musical is?
One of my fellow thespians in my drama group is a member of the Sondheim society and she actually met him in NY. She went to the famous NY bar and he bought her group a drink
Mary Rogers said that she encouraged Sondheim to work with her Dad.
Sondheim deserved a better interviewer than Matthew Cain. When he was doing the arts section on Channel 4 News you just got the impression he couldn't wait to do a story on Kylie.
This video is entitled "The Musical That SS Wished He'd Never Wrote," but you cut the part where he says the name! - Annoying!! This is the video I wished I'd never watched.
I mean, he did mention not thinking Do I Hear a Waltz was worth writing, later in the video. It’s just not the main focus of the interview.
I would have to agree with "America" the lyrics are silly and the rhymes appear to be more important than the message.
Sunset boulevard is a good play, a3 song play needing at least two more hits that worked with glen close,bthevrole demands a great actresss rather than a great singer who can’t act as well in Elaine Paige. The audience needs to fill in her performance and soars when she sings. Yet do not connect with the character as well as with glen close. I love glen close, the finest actresss in our day who never won an Oscar is a travesty. Average price of 110 sounded high then but dirt cheap today.
Sunset is a Lloyd Webber work.
Into the woods is not the goal of the audience not to think, it’s deeply moving, we all get up and go “ into the woods” when we go to work. One cannot expect to be treated fairly and you have the daunting task of satisfying the audience even when they don’t know what satisfies them. Musical therapy I call it, perfectly describes musical therapy. Elaine Stritch is the finest musical actresss performer that repulses him and that’s my main strike against him. He thinks of himself.
I have some friends who worked with Elaine Stritch, and ALL of them say she was brilliantly talented, but a horrible person to work with. Take a look at what Chita Rivera has to say about Stritch in her book. I'm grateful to have seen her on stage, but feel fortunate not to have had to put up with her behavior.
@@leesauer6695 I was introduced to her briefly after her show “ Elaine at Liberty” through a friend of hers. I praised her performance and thanked her for being so transparent with her life’s experiences, and she mocked my praise in a self depreciating way. I could relate to her in that when I receive praise I downplay it abut very hurt when someone I don’t even really know insults my character. Elaine loves praise but more when it comes from the masses,none on one it embarrasses her. Elaine lives big and can be too much I suppose on a one on one basis for an extended period of time. Like the old saying, people love for loved ones to visit but by the 4 th day you want your home back to yourself. A huge personality does occupy all the oxygen in the room so I can see how much each little suggestion offered to Elaine by Sondheim can feel like a struggle. I grew up in a home where everyone wanted to offer an ear, not take center stage. Elaine loved what I said and was gracious but I was aware that that time after her show was about her, not me and I quickly said what I said and wished her a great evening and I could tell she was glad that I excused myself rather quickly . My friend lingered and Elaine joked “ you won’t be as impressed with my performance tonight if you stick around much longer, I’m more entertaining while I’m on the stage” my friend didn’t take that as a cue to leave so I made up an urgent reason to go which I can’t remember for the life of me. Lol
it is also a comment on bad kulturpolitik
what he says about nuns and dogs seems like a comment on the future.
Absolutely. Broadway now is literally just "what movies do people like" and we get these uninspired, soulless movie musicals. Just as musicals are so difficult to adapt well to screen, its the same going the other way.
This should be titled, 'The grammar that the person who posted this wished he had used."
In short, this should read '"The musical that Stephen Sondheim wished he HAD NEVER WRITTEN."
I highly appreciate Sondheim himself pointing out that musicals based on movies are cheap cash grabs
I’d say DO I HEAR A WALTZ. Did it grudgingly and not a positive experience writing lyrics with Richard Rodgers.
I hate "jukebox' musicals. Having been brought up going to Broadway musicals, they seem like a cheap, easy excuse for real theater. I understand that producing musicals is extremely expensive, but if I want to hear some rock star's music, I will listen to the original. Most of the stories surrounding these "musicals" are insipid and the arrangements of the songs, rarely sung in full, are horrible. Tina was the only musical I have ever walked out of in my life, and I've seen hundreds of shows.
Have you seen & Juliet? I think it’s an example of the ideal jukebox musical. Good story, great performances
A Beautiful Noise I didn’t care for and would rather hear the original singer - as you described.
But without an audience you can not keep on writing musicals can you.
"never written?"
"had never written" This is the past perfect tense, that American English has completely lost. Heck, people can't even use the verbs "is" and "are" and "was" and "were" anymore. It's a sad commentary on the direction our county is going.
I didn't write that comment! Don't know where it came from.
I don't attend current musical theatre because the whole "high concept" fever that is part of Hollywood (sequelitis....). Musical Theatre, in my opinion, is mostly junk and accepted by the public. Crap shows like "Hamilton" (a black man who plays Alexander Hamilton). Great Musical Theatre should be judged that you can just hear the selections on a CD and love the show as a musical experience.
Because it's about the experience and has little to do with the art form, the public will attend the theater and consume the compelling along with the egregious in a state of glazed, indiscriminate glee.
To the contrary, Lin-Manuel Miranda, who wrote the musical and played the titular role for many years, is not Black; he is Puerto Rican and of Hispanic origin.
A quick Google shows that Hamilton the person was born out of wedlock in the Caribbean, leading to the infamous line about him being a “creole bastard.” That said, he was most likely Caucasian, though there’s some small possibility that he had some non-Caucasian blood in him. In those days, though, even “one drop” would have been enough to get him labeled as “Black” which may have contributed to the controversy. Current research doesn’t seem to support this as likely though. What is true, is that he was “an immigrant,” not born in what would become the United States. This of course was also true for many of the “Founding Fathers,” since at that point basically everyone other than the Native tribespeople had just arrived here within the past few generations. Alexander Hamilton appears to have been Scottish (father’s side) and French (mother’s side.
Having actors play people of races and skin tones other than their own for the musical was a theatrical choice, meant in part to redress a long and problematic history of having white people take all the roles, and wear Blackface (or yellow face, etc.) There are other reasons for the choice as well, and I found a brief but informative article on the topic on Cinemaholic, if you are interested in learning more.
@@DawnDavidson Thanks for all the background info. I think Lin-Manuel is immensely talented as a lyricist, composer, and visionary. That being true, I wish they had cast the role of Hamilton with someone who had a beautiful, dynamic singing voice. There is some amazing performer out there who was robbed of the opportunity to originate that role.
Makes so much sense that he loves math.