Was great having Gill join us for this 3 part special! Hope you enjoyed it :) Part 1: ruclips.net/video/ru3AgoS3tNw/видео.html&t Part 2: ruclips.net/video/1GnvogUv1HQ/видео.html&t Part 3: ruclips.net/video/UZwzZEv8EvU/видео.html
I firmly believe there isn't a best version of Rafa on clay. His greatest talent is adapting to every single opponent he had to face, preparing a particular strategy time after time. He's a genius from a tactical point of view. Of course over the years he had to become more aggressive and shorten the rallies.
Nadal has now the clinched most convincing argument to be considered as the greatest player of all time. Big 3 head to head record vs each other in grand slams. Nadal : 20-10 vs Federer : 10-4 vs Djokovic : 10-6 Djokovic : 17-16 vs Federer : 11-6 vs Nadal : 6-10 Federer : 10-21 vs Djokovic : 6-11 vs Nadal : 4-10 Further, Nadal has beaten either Djokovic or Federer in 14 grand slams for his 20 grand slams. Djokovic has beaten either Nadal or Federer in 12 grand slams for his 17 grand slams. Federer has beaten either Nadal or Djokovic in 6 grand slams for his 20 grand slams. Additionally, Federer has never beaten both Nadal and Djokovic on his way to a slam. Djokovic has beaten both Nadal and Federer once in his 2011 US Open in the finals and the semifinals. Nadal has beaten both Federer and Djokovic three times in 2006, 2007 and the 2008 French Open.
@@simonsimonovic4478 Technically it is 7-1 (French Open), 2-1 (US Open), 0-2 (Australian Open) and 1-2 (Wimbledon). So Nadal has beaten Djokovic more times on a hard court grand slam than Djokovic has beaten Nadal on a clay court grand slam.
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Not sure if you're aware of that which I'm about point out. Or you may have forgotten. And some may regard it as insignificant. But I think it is important to recognize every achievement an athlete made (especially when comparing the individual to his/her rivals). And that is, excluding each other, Federer and Nadal have held more GS titles on all 3 surface than every other player on tour. And that of course, includes Djokovic.
He was indeed and I reckon the 2008 version was probably the toughest version. He obviously had a weaker serve and maybe a slightly weaker backhand but he could absolutely run down every single ball and could run around absolutely any position and hit his brutal forehand. That was when both Federer and Djokovic couldn’t beat him very often.
Rafa will surely focus on Wimbledon now , quicker points ,and if he applies himself seriously ,he will surely go the distance. I also think he will be (super) hungry for Australian open ,2021.
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Really? He’s been very good at Wimbledon lately. He pushed Djokovic to 5 in 2018, and in 2019 he crushed a difficult draw before losing a tight 4-setter to Federer, and I believe Nadal didnt even play very well in that match.
I do honestly think that 2018-2020 Rafa is the best we've seen on both Hard Courts and Clay in terms of consistency. Maybe he hasn't had many stand alone matches at top top level, but he goes into any tournament (excluding Wimbledon) with a decent chance at the title and he's having much less upsets than he used to
2008 and 2010 Rafa was in beast mode considering all court performances. 2013 was amazing too, specially considering his injury comeback to win RG and also the way he dismantled Djoker @ the US Open. 2017 onwards Rafa is different. He is older, little slower but much wiser. But I agree with Gill, young Rafa was more ominous. Federer would still be losing against him, even with his adjusted backhand. As young Rafa was too fast to handle.
@@rafiqi1328 yeah I guess it's quite subjective. For me I've recently looked back on 2008-2010 and I think the sport has evolved since then, and is played at a higher level in general. Again personal opinion but I like seeing a complete game, and pre 2012ish I see a few holes in his game that likely would have been exploited by quite a few of the top guys post 2015. I look at his greatly improved serve, backhand, net play and mental game and think it could actually be better around than the fast young and powerful guy in 2008-10. I think some statistics get exaggerated too, as I think the depth in quality in the professional game is a little greater in the late 2010s than it was in the late 2000s. Obviously we look back at how good Fedal were, but taking a critical view I do think the depth especially ranks 4-20 were really lacking, making (in my opinion) a lot of his titles around that time, especially on clay, less impressive than a lot of titles in the last 3-4 years where he has had to face tougher draws and play quality tennis from the start
@@helenclarke4735 he wasn’t as good on hard courts but during his long win streak his backhand was incredible, and that’s what launched his insane win streak over 3 different surfaces.
Before I start watching your video I have to go with the 2008 French open final against Fed. Rafa’s level in that match never went down. He made 8 unforced errors in the middle part of set 3 against Novak on Sunday. All members of the big 3 were more fun to watch when they were younger because we didn’t know what to expect. Excellent video of course for us Rafa fans. It’s fun to watch the both of you because you’re both very bright. Tahmid you’re are more stats oriented than Gill. Your style on your channel reminds me of Fed’s tennis game. Gill’s show reminds me more of Rafa’s tennis game. Both work. I’m still disappointed Rafa didn’t play the us open. 21 slam victories was there for the taking.
2008 definitely was an insane level but is Roger a better clay courter than Novak? And nice description of our tennis channel styles haha, I suppose you must like Gills channel more then as a Rafa fan ;)
I would also like to know how Novak vs Rafa rivalry transcends beyond clay. I would still consider Rafa to have a slighter edge on USOP (he is leading their H2H). They are pretty closely matched at SW19 (the 2018 Semis ), but I will give Djoker the edge. But do you guys think Nadal now has planted a Shadow of doubt on Novak when playing against him moving forward? I personally think so. Nadal made some adjustments, like moving up to return better, keeping the drop shots in check and then handling Djoker's backhand by mixing up with some looping balls near the baseline and DTL forehands. Please let us know your thoughts?
Another good discussion. But i think it is hard to go against mental toughness which Rafa has so much abundance of. He’s such a fighter! And whatever he plans from now, we can expect no less from him. Thanks and much 💕 from the 🇵🇭
Gill is awesome and for those not familiar with him u should check out his channel. The only time he comes up short is when speaking about Rafa. He constantly sells him short and underestimates him- he picked Dhokovic to win and keeps sayong Rafa isnt as good as he used to be. With all due respect that's hogwash!! Hes got a much more aggressive serve now, his backhand is light years better, he wins more return points now, he has more variety now, and the one issue Gill harps on is his speed. Rafa's speed isnt that far off from his peak-- u can only name a few players with better speed and movement. The players have actually already weighed in and they said that their version today would smoke their younger versions. Now I gotta get out the tapes and go hunting gor the videos-- but both Novak and Rafa have said they are better now and I agree with them.
@@Zain-mg3yk maybe the pick before the final but on the preview show where he was reviewing the draw I'm pretty sure he picked Djokovic (although if u say otherwise and I'm remembering wrong then my bad). Gill also guranteed that Djoker would be much better on serve- he practicully guaranteed it. But I wont give him a hard time for those bad predictions cuz hes putting himself out there and predicting. I give him props for putting it out there and taking any chance. And I mentioned I'm a huge fan of his but seriously I do feel he doesn't give Rafa enough repsect and doubts him way too much. But Rafa has been doubted his entire career so its normal. Out of the three Rafa definitely doubted the most time and time again. Hes made a career out of prooving people wrong so its all good.
@@zerekanthony2203 I saw his prediction a few hours before the final. I dont get why everybody doubts Rafa. I wonder who are they going to be hyping next May as the favourite to beat Rafa. Its unbelievable😄. Have you had a look at the stats of who is the greatest returner in the game. Hint: It's not the Djoker. Courier tweeted about it as well this month. Cheers!
My thoughts are that the best Rafa overall was 2010. His best clay year 2008, also very good 2017, 2020. He is not moving better than he was 10 years ago but he has improved many parts of his game. Ive said recently that he has adapted his game as needed more than anybody , ever.
To all of you who say this 2020 RG Rafa is the best ever Rafa because he is smarter, plays with more variety etc etc. I will say this. You dont have a clue about tennis. 2008. RGNadal was BY FAR the best ever Rafa .. He gave Verdasco 3 games Almagro in semis 3 games Fed in the finals 4 games. Why was that Rafa the best Rafa ever? Because he was a beast physically. Because he was so fast, so strong, so explosive. He could hit a winner from every position. His passing shots then were almost impossible and thats the biggest difference between Nadal now and then. Nadal today doesnt have the speed, strength and explosiveness he had back then. Then he could have played 10 hours on the same level and this Nadal today drops his level in the third set. We saw that against Diego in the semis, we saw that in the finals. So please, spare me your theories. Brains and variety cannot beat physicallity . Still, Nadal was smart even in 2008.
@ppm120667 @ppm120667 What you said changes nothing. Serve is not THAT important on clay. Yes, to set his second shot up but not that crucial. His FH was good enough then, his BH was also good then. He doesnt need volleys. Nadal just needed to be dominant physically. Thats what he was. He was a beast then and this Nadal could not beat 2008.Nadal because of one simple reason. This Nadal would not be able to win points against 2008.Nadal. Because 2008.Nadal was faster, stronger and more explosive, more durable, he needed just keep the ball deep and you cannot win a point against him. You dont need to agree with me, its fine. But you are wrong. P. S. Dont forget that Nadal needs to be more agressive today, he didnt need to be agressive then. He was a beast.
@ppm120667 Yep, but the 2008.version of Rafa doesnt need to hit through these conditions because he was so dominant physically. Thats the thing. Well if we talk about other surfaces, you need to go and watch again 2009.Australian open finals Rafa against Federer. What he did in that match defensively, from almost impossible positions against Federer, that was out of this world. P. S. Nadal needed to change many thing and still needs to primarily because he is as dominant physically as he used to. Thats why he needs to be more agressive today.
@ppm120667 Its easy to beat that argument. 2020 RG Nadal played amazing tennis 2 and half sets against Diego in semis and Nole in finals, then in the 2nd half of the 3rd set, Rafa's level started to drop a bit. 2008. RG Rafa could play on the same beast level for 10 sets.
Hmmmm very good question. I think the Nadal who demolished Wawrinka in 2017 to win La Decima would beat any other Nadal on clay. But at the same time, it is hard to look past his performance against Novak last Sunday. Not only was he scarily good, he also got his tactics spot on. That would be an interesting match up for sure.
Yeah I think tactically Nadal was spot on.. But of course he looks so impressive every RG that it's hard to pick one! Great comment thank you for sharing and also glad to have you on the channel
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Certainly! For me at least, and I am sure for many others who have become used to the big 3, this straight set FO final had more quality in it than that "five set" drama!
Only a Chokosquirrel would say that... roger fans wouldn’t dare being he didn’t have to face Rafa and Novak as much as Novak and Rafa had to face each other... Rafa fans aren’t stupid or disrespectful enough to say that... stay salty your master Defaultovic’d himself 😂!!!!! Thiem took the trophy GOATdal gifted him like a bully takes candy from a baby 😂!!!! Haile Dominator!!!
So glad to see you two doing a video. Can't wait for the third video about Novak. I would also like to hear you opinion on this: do you think Novak can defeat Rafa in RG in the future? You talked about Thiem, but what do you think about Novak's chances?
For sure Novak can although will be very difficult as we have seen but he's done it once, will probably need to play his best ever tennis to get another win though
I would also like to know how Novak vs Rafa rivalry transcends beyond clay. I would still consider Rafa to have a slighter edge on USOP (he is leading their H2H). They are pretty closely matched at SW19 (the 2018 Semis ), but I will give Djoker the edge. But do you guys think Nadal now has planted a Shadow of doubt on Novak when playing against him moving forward? I personally think so. Nadal made some adjustments, like moving up to return better, keeping the drop shots in check and then handling Djoker's backhand by mixing up with some looping balls near the baseline and DTL forehands. Please let us know your thoughts?
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum that was in 2015 when Rafa was going through a slump. I am sure you are aware. Rafa was down in his rankings, low in confidence; he was even playing ATP250 clay court events to get reps. And no wonder they met in the QF @ RG and peak Novak had a walk in the park. Not that I am taking credit away from Novak, but Nadal was below 50% his top level for sure.
My question to @Gil Gross, do you think a full pack RG of fans can change complexion of this match especially on 5-5 at third? I am a big fan of Nadal and I think the less audience calmed Nadal and was able to focus much more.
I would agree 2017 Rafa was so good. I think the level of opponent he beat 2017 was much better than this year (besides maybe novak). He destroyed wawrinka and thiem that year and his movement was so good. This year I think he was better tactically and was more aware of how to best approach each opponent tactically this year.
Hey tahmid bro.... I wannna ask where can i watch nadal vs djokovic rg 2020 full match again....is there any website for that.... Cuz i can't find.... All i see is highlights from youtube
Tahmid could you do a video about "Do you think Novak Djokovic will win the USO again?" The reason I ask this is because since 2016 Novak has really struggled in the USO like Roger Federer did at a similar age. When Djokovic has played a full season since 2016 he seems to fall short in the USO. 2016, he was injured and lost the final, 2017 he withdrew, 2018 he won but he didn't play a full season, 2019 he retired injured and 2020 a default.
One point which you missed that could support your argument that this was Nadal's greatest performance is that Djokovic had gotten into Nadal's head. I believe Nadal had more at stake than Djokovic had. Were he to lose for the first time in the RG final, Djokovic would be just one GS away from Nadal and Australian open was coming up next. I think the fact that Nadal could almost forget that he could lose this match made this arguably his best performance on clay.
Very good point thank you for sharing! Yep it seemed like perhaps Novak had gotten into Rafas head and had the mental advantage which Rafa very convincingly proved wasn't the case!
Nadal defeated Novak in Rome last year so Novak wasn't in his head. But Novak's level on Sunday doesn't come close to the level of Nadal's past opponents in F.O Finals. In 2011 Nadal had to beat three top 5 players to win the title: Soderling #5,Andy Murray (4) and Federer (3) These three were playing at a much higher level than 2020 Novak. 2019 Thiem > 2020 Novak.
I would still consider Rafa being amongst the favorites to win USOP (he has better H2H against Djoker and more titles) and also Wimbledon. I wish Rafa gets one more AO, but with the timing (beginning of a season) and stiffer competition it might be unlikely. But we will see. Things are already getting complicated for Djoker/Fed in hard courts. Rafa should be able to play all slams for the next two years. And then he will play it by ear. Vamos
I initially thought Rafa is playing better now but then I saw a few videos of his younger days and his speed and court coverage on clay was something else. So I say younger Rafa beats older Rafa
Very good observation there. In 2008 Federer was hailed as the GOAT and Nadal was (and to some still is) just a brute muscular animal that can hold a racket and play on dirty (as the British would put it) The Roland Garros 2008 beatdown followed by the 2008 back to back Channel Slam should have showed there and then to the World, Nadal was a better overall player than Federer and he should have gotten his well deserved respect. Unfortunately MEDIA bias still kept hammering that Federer was the better player. Nowadays Federer having a losing record against both Nadal and Nole paints a different picture I wonder why NADAL doesn't get the admiration he should given the ginormous proportion of what he has accomplished in his career. For 1/50th of what he has done, Andy Murray will be consider Royalty forever in the World of Tennis. Djokovic should get much more respect too, if you ask me.
''Is Nadal playing his best ever tennis on clay?? No, not even close... Nadal in 2008 was just unbeatable, same as 2017, same as 2013, same as 2010. Those years, Rafa displayed better tennis than this year imo. His forhand was unreal, his foot speed was ridiculous, his court coverage, his defense, everything was miles better than this year imo. But 2020, he was pretty dominant. The player that put up the biggest fight was Sinner, a youngster.
Tahmid who do you think is possibly the toughest opponent for Nadal at Rolland Garros currently is it Thiem or djokovic . We saw djokovic trying to unleash groundstrokes but was missing a lot but Thiem is a natural Hard hitter and last yr he was pushing Nadal to limits in the first 2 sets before running out of gas due to continuous matches for 4 days i think.
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum correct. He showed hints of tiredness in this years FO. So, competing with rafa over a 5 setter after 2 years may not be possible for him
Thiem is becoming more of a hard court player. He is losing his "clayness". Nadal loves clay. Do u think Thiem really loves clay? I think Thiem is simply better player than others on clay. May be Thiem himself is better on clay than on other surfaces. But did he really love clay? I think the answer is no. In 2013 FO semifinal Rafa played 5 tough sets against Djocovic. Other finalist Ferrer destroyed Tsonga in straight sets. Ferrer is great fighter, he is a clay courter. He has the experience of defeating Nadal by then on other surfaces, if not clay(except in 2004). But when the final came, Nadal destroyed Ferrer in straight sets. That shows his love for the surface and his love for Roland Garros. Where as Thiem played five sets against Gaston and in the next match he was defeated by a clay courter Schwartzman in five sets. Schwartzman got defeated by Nadal in straight sets. Playing good, great or ur best on Nadal is different and loving the surface is different. A lot of players like Djocovic and Federer might be playing better than others on clay. But they don't actually like clay. They just want records on clay. But Nadal really loves to play for hours and hours and he still will be looking fresh. He can run miles on clay, he will slide anything. You go for a dropshot he will run from 2 metres behind the baseline and still hit a winner. And he will do that 100 times. His body language looks positive always. He keep on searching answers. We don't see that in any other player and even in Thiem. If Thiem has to face Nadal in next year RG Final, I won't give Thiem any chance. This is true even for Nadal. Nadal hardly won an Australian Open because he don't like that place much. He is never comfortable playing there. He has no love for Australian Open. Whatever love he has, it is for the sake of records. He could never ever win AO, unless he start loving that place, love to play on that surface. This is true for Federer on grass. And for the same reason Thiem will never win Wimbledon. Because he don't like that place in the first place. Tell me which surface Zverev loves, Thiem loves and Tsitsipas loves and next gen players love. It's ok if u don't like any surface, tell me if u really like playing Tennis and love to win against the best players. To some extent Thiem is ready for challenge and want to challenge the best on their best surfaces. That is he has more success against big 4.
Thiem is definitely up there with the Big 3, mentally speaking. This is a big achievement. But he beats himself down with his style of play. He needs to add more sophistication and variety to his game to keep points short. He probably needs to go through 2 of the Big 3 to win a major. He cannot handle multiple 5 setters in a single major. AO, RG this year are some prime examples.
@@rishbahpandey8697 Let's wait and see, don't be so confident! We don't even know, what form Roger is in now, and what form he'll be, in 3 months time, so just keep your pants on.
Very interesting part 2 and statements Tahmid ! To give my humble opinion, i am leaning more towards Gill's as far as Nadal's best performance on clay. No disrespect to Nadal, yes he played fantastic on Sunday but Djokovic didnt play that good at all (and i may throwing an unpopular opinion here). His first serve percentages were terrible (he was struggling to even pass a 1st serve) and also his unforced errors were straight out very bad (and yes some of them where due to Nadal's game, but the extent they got its so much unlikely to Djokovic). About 2013 SF, as you mentioned Djokovic was a break up in the fifth set, and if not for the net incident we dont know if Nadal would be able to come back at all, just speculate. So i am also picking 2008 final vs Federer for Nadal's best performance on clay ! As for the question on how many more FOs he can win, i would say a very realistic prediction is that he reaches 15 FOs (taking into account that next year's one is almost in his bag, he will surely take one more up until the end of his career) ! Cant wait for the part 3 !
Rafa played excellent and all the credits to him, but let's be realistic, Djokovic was not in that match at all, his face was telling everyone that he was in another place, he was like hypnotized or something had to happen before that match. I really don't know, but for sure he was another person.
I agree. They made a cybernetic model N-100 that was poorly programmed however. Either that or it was a reptilian replicant to establish new world order by tennis but failed miserably.
Well, it might be the best performance from Rafa, in conditions where he was supposed to be affected negatively. But, yeah 2008, 2010, 2013 and 2017 finals, are also in the discussion of the "best performance"
Great reasoning and I agree! What made this one special was that the conditions seemed to hamper his style but he played completely through it! The years you mentioned were all brilliant performances from Rafa of course
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum exactly, the guy is simply other thing when its clay. I guess this is also because, clay os other world, i mean on grass or hardcourts maybe a big hitter can have a really great day and beat everyone, but clay demands more than that.
Djoko has lost many points on his drop shots.. i think he has a chance if he plays blow by blow with Nadal like he did on the 3rd set from the beginning... he is playing good when he hits the ball with angst.
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum You all guys exaggerate now very much. I watched that match again, play by play, replaying most of the points many times. There were maximum 10 neutral rallies in this match, sth between 5-10 - when Rafa was unplayable. Not more than 10, for sure. The rest of the points (so majority of the points of that match) could have gone either way. It was always sth wrong with Novak's game when he was losing points (also sometimes when he was winning points): bad shot, bad movement, bad shot selection, bad tactic, bad drop shots (too short (net), too long, wrong decision to play drop shot)). Novak did a lot of great plays in this match but almost in each rally did sth wrong and that costed him so many points and games. Not the best form at all. Around 80% of top Novak. Clear example is how he couldn't handle Nadal's short low bh slices down the line which took Novak to the middle of the court. Normally he handles this shot quite well from his bh side, like against Federer in last Wimb. final. Or against Thiem in Australia (Roger and Thiem slice the ball cross court from their bh side). At the same time Rafa wasn't missing almost at all. He played at his best, slightly dropped his level in the 3rd set sometimes. Also very slow conditions helped him to handle that well Novak's serve (which was quite good since the middle of 1st set to the end of the match) and Novak's return (which was very good (many times great) almost the whole match). But it wasn't unbeatable Rafa version on clay. The same Novak wasn't unbeatable in AO 2019 final. Rafa said after that match that he wasn't at his best at defence, if he was he could many times play an extra ball and give Novak much more troubles then. Very similar matches in that way: in Australia Novak playing flawless tennis and Rafa weaker, here at RG Rafa flawless and Novak weaker. It would be great if we could see them at their best in the next two grand slam finals: 2021 AO and RG. If somebody disagree with my opinion about last RG final between those two: I really reccommend to watch that match again the same way I did.
Not wanting to take anything away from Rafa's 20th GS, but I was highly disappointed with Novak, he was never mentally in it, apart from maybe mid 3rd set/ possibly one of Novaks worst Nadal defeats, (and im a Rafa fan !!!)
He seemed to be shocked by the level Rafa was playing at which was almost near perfection! I think Novak perhaps went into the final a bit too confident of his chances because of the conditions?
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Usually Novak raises his level the deeper he goes into a tournament. But his performance against Tsitsipas wasnt any better than against Careeno Busta. The fact that he couldn't raise his level in his S.F told me that he probably wouldn't raise his level In the final and he didnt .
There is NO ASTERISK on the USO!!! Defaultovic got himself kicked out 😂!!!! Thiem didn’t cheat. Thiem did his job and Chokevak failed to do his job PERIOD. 100% EARNED. Way to go Dominator!!!
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum hey I have been seeing u and u are not trolling covidovic at all. Why? Why couldn't you have replied to gold wolf adressing Djokovic as Defaultovic
Novak is already GOAT, here are the facts : 1. Novak has most major titles (GS+masters+final masters) 2. Novak has the best h2h score both against Rafa and Federer. 3. Novak has most weeks as player no.1 in the world 4. Only player in history that has all masters titles (and now has TWICE each title) 5. He will be at the end of 2020 player with most years finishing as No. 1 6. Only player in history that had all 4 GS tournaments in same moment
Nadal was playing his best tennis in the Final but only because Novak made too much UE! Don’t get me wrong, Nadal deserves this Titel. But you saw him vs Sinner that he was playing on edge! I think the strategy won this match. Nadal played a lot with moon balls on Novak BH and Nadal slice was a good move. Plus Novak with his DS. For example: Novak made in the fist 9;Games 27 UE! 27! Last year at AO he Made 9! For the Entire Match. Nadal make a great move not playing in USA. This is another reason why he was so focused in the final. Novak had less fuel in the tank. Novak gonna end this year as N1 and that’s for me is more important than RG Titel. He has plenty time to reach another RG Titel.
@@GillGross heyy you are the best tennis talker on this platform just know that. Coffee break tennis and slice are fit to polish your shoes. Am telling ya your love for ferrer shows the kind of attitude u like.
Nadal is best at roland gaross, and very good at other slams..being stoped manny times only by the big 2 if not for that he would have 3 times AO at least and another two wimbledon etc
I'd say 15 is the realistic prediction. As Gill pointed out, Thiem is getting better and I think he has a real shot at Rafa, especially in 2-3 years when Rafa slows down even more. Let's be honest, until when can Rafa produce performances like two days ago? Do I need to remind you that he was "worse" player on the court vs Sinner in QF. So his form in the first 6 matches was not that scary as it was in finals. All in all, I think he will win at least one more but beyond that we will have to wait and see at the end of next RG.
I think they should make it fair- just deduct a set from him, each match- so things can get more interesting, or else it's already know, that he win, at least then, you give his opponents, some hopes, to beat him- seriously, maybe they should impose this rule, whenever he plays in the RG next year, or just give him the damn trophy, and skip to the finals.
I could only see not more than 2 FO, next gen will eventually drag him down, may be one more USO/AO, so Rafa would have total 23 GS when he finally call it. Rafa - 23 Novak - 22 Roger - 20
Thiem is a big IF. I know he got better but for me it's obvious nerves are getting to him. Even winning uso he was so hesitant, he abandoned his backhand and was too afraid and like djokovic he first need to get to the final and that IS not a guarantee as it is for Rafa. Yes thiem could get better but he also can get worse. 2021 will answer that question.
Rafa does everything better nowadays except his movement but still his movement is excellent and it's hard to hit through him on clay, that's why Novak was aiming for lines a lot.
I didnt see that many Great forehands down the line from Nadal In this tournament so he wasn't near Godmode. He was playing mostly low risk tennis but that's understandable considering he hasn't played in 7 months. I expect a much higher level of tennis from him at next year's Clay season.
Djokovic is the goat. Prateek p Djokovic has won 16 of his 17 slams while playing Nadal or Federer. At least 72 wins at each major. Nadal has only won at least 53 majors at each major. Double golden masters. Nadal has 10 hard court masters out of the 6 on hard court. Djokovic has 10 clay masters 1000 tournaments out of only 3. Nadal has never won Paris, Miami, and Shanghai. Nadal has never won the nitto atp finals!!! Only 209 weeks at n1 and Djokovic 290, about to get sixth n1 at the end of the year. Shouldn’t be a debate.
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Yeah I am. I just don't see how Nadal can be the goat when he is behind in all of those categories. Of course Djokovic is behind in grand slams, but Djokovic is much more consistent on all surfaces than Nadal therefore making him the goat.
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Also want to confirm that djokovic won 16 of 17 grand slams while playing big 4 not big three and nadal won 14 of 20 while playing big 4
Rafa has 1 singles Olympic gold medal.roger can swap atleast 2 world tour finals for that.h2h in slams in favour of rafa.and they say he is clay court specialist.give me a break.isnt clay tennis?? Or is it soccer or basketball?? Take a racquet and try to defeat rafa at Roland Garros
It is really hard to tell. On one hand 2008 was the year he beat Federer in his prime at Wimbledon, but on the other hand this year he beat Djokovic, whose game is more bothersome for Rafa, even on clay. The final performances are equally impressive, but I think the slow conditions this time helped Nadal more than he even thought possible at the beginning. Regarding Thiem, I don’t think he can beat Rafa at RG until he gets too old. It is a matter of no one-handed backhand player can hurt him too much from that side and Nadal kills them with the top spin. I think it has beeb the main problem for Federer on clay during his whole career. By the way, I love both of your content hugely. The first thing I watch when I get up 🙂
AO 2021 will depend heavily on the draw - particularly which side Thiem is on, and potentially Federer if he comes back in the same way he did in AO 2017. Novak is still the favourite but if Thiem takes him out, then Rafa has a good chance. Rafa even has a chance against Novak, better than AO 2019 anyway. I think you are ruling Rafa out too much for Wimbledon. Past two years he has only lost to Djokovic and Federer - his form would have been enough to beat anyone else and the Federer match Rafa was not fully in mentally until the last set. No one else is playing that great on grass. Again, draw will be very important, which side Federer is on in the draw. Rafa also needs to get through the early rounds to build up his play there, taking time to adapt from French Open to grass on the go at Wimbledon as in past years by skipping Queens to preserve his body. He always takes time to work into form, but particularly so at Wimbledon. Rafa is still the favourite at Roland Garros next year, but if he is taken out by Thiem or a Sinner type redlining player (anyone even Nadal can have a bad match), then Djokovic could win it. If Federer plays and the other big 3 are knocked out in upsets, he could still win against most player, although Tsitsipas has now established himself as a threat on clay and Thiem would still take Federer out unless he is tired out. Anything can happen at the US Open. The only thing from recent history is that the previous champion never defends it, so count Thiem out there :P Next year or two will be very exciting for all tennis fans. Each big 3 member has a shot to get more slams.
What is the crazy thing is that Nadal has chance to win US open atleast once in his career whereas Federer lost his best chance at Wimbledon last year.
The scary thing is Rafa is NOT playing his best ever 😂 and he’s still destroying Chokevak 😂!!!!! 2008 Rafa was the most beast mode Rafa ever. He was soooo much faster then. 2013 was a very close second. He was slightly slower but with bigger hitting. Seriously, just give him the trophy in may 😂 the guy with the best chance to beat him got 7 games 😂!!!!! 🥯😂😂😂😂
Congratulations on the Nadal win, from a Djokovic supporter. I know you are a fan of Nadal, and the biggest hater of Djokovic, which is kind of funny to me, but never the less, a great performance from Nadal, and he was a deserving winner. While i agree that Nadal is better than Djokovic on clay, he always was, Djokovic was the player that could hurt Nadal most on this surface and he did over the years. This match in the final was in my opinion a mix of Djokovic mentally out of the match, and Nadal always present. Of course, I'm not saying that Djokovic would have won if he was 100%, i just think he could have performed better. Especially in the first two sets. Similar to an Australian Open final 2019, which Nadal could have played better when the situation was reversed. But, it is to be expected sometimes, these beatdowns, when these giants face off in their favorite surfaces. I just watched the highlights of this match in 2020 and their match from 2013(since you mention it), and one thing that became evident to me was that in 2013, Djokovic was much more physical, and had more power in his shots, more pace. Nadal is actually slower than before but has more variety. So, i just wanted to address that and state my opinion. Anyway, i hope for more battles in the future from the big 3, they are incredible players.
You know what? You picked on my pessimism about Rafa’s chances at FO a few days ago (I don’t think you remember that, but I do) and I was kinda shocked. Now I’m starting to have some fun with your way of rooting for Rafa! 😀
You right, old day Sampras, Agassi, Becker, they was 32, 33, they played all tournoment every year,.and many, match bout, Nadal Federer , they dont play so many match, not all master,........they are not tierd, Nadal 38, he dont play mant match, only important match, always he is fresh
Was great having Gill join us for this 3 part special! Hope you enjoyed it :)
Part 1: ruclips.net/video/ru3AgoS3tNw/видео.html&t
Part 2: ruclips.net/video/1GnvogUv1HQ/видео.html&t
Part 3: ruclips.net/video/UZwzZEv8EvU/видео.html
Tahmid Saleh which country you are from??
@@rishbahpandey8697 Bangladesh origins born and raised in London
I firmly believe there isn't a best version of Rafa on clay. His greatest talent is adapting to every single opponent he had to face, preparing a particular strategy time after time. He's a genius from a tactical point of view. Of course over the years he had to become more aggressive and shorten the rallies.
very well said and i agree that great champions like rafa and the big 3 are always adapting and trying to improve their games despite so much success!
Nadal has now the clinched most convincing argument to be considered as the greatest player of all time.
Big 3 head to head record vs each other in grand slams.
Nadal : 20-10
vs Federer : 10-4
vs Djokovic : 10-6
Djokovic : 17-16
vs Federer : 11-6
vs Nadal : 6-10
Federer : 10-21
vs Djokovic : 6-11
vs Nadal : 4-10
Further,
Nadal has beaten either Djokovic or Federer in 14 grand slams for his 20 grand slams.
Djokovic has beaten either Nadal or Federer in 12 grand slams for his 17 grand slams.
Federer has beaten either Nadal or Djokovic in 6 grand slams for his 20 grand slams.
Additionally,
Federer has never beaten both Nadal and Djokovic on his way to a slam.
Djokovic has beaten both Nadal and Federer once in his 2011 US Open in the finals and the semifinals.
Nadal has beaten both Federer and Djokovic three times in 2006, 2007 and the 2008 French Open.
Brilliant stats thank you for providing! Glad to have such a knowledgeable person as yourself on the channel
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Hey thanks for the compliment!
That's some amazing stats. Very well done my friend 👍
YES, Nadal is 10:6 against Novak on Grand slams, of those 10 times, he beat him 8 times on clay...
@@simonsimonovic4478
Technically it is 7-1 (French Open), 2-1 (US Open), 0-2 (Australian Open) and 1-2 (Wimbledon).
So Nadal has beaten Djokovic more times on a hard court grand slam than Djokovic has beaten Nadal on a clay court grand slam.
Vintage Nadal was just out of this world.
Indeed!
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum
Not sure if you're aware of that which I'm about point out. Or you may have forgotten. And some may regard it as insignificant. But I think it is important to recognize every achievement an athlete made (especially when comparing the individual to his/her rivals). And that is, excluding each other, Federer and Nadal have held more GS titles on all 3 surface than every other player on tour. And that of course, includes Djokovic.
He was indeed and I reckon the 2008 version was probably the toughest version. He obviously had a weaker serve and maybe a slightly weaker backhand but he could absolutely run down every single ball and could run around absolutely any position and hit his brutal forehand. That was when both Federer and Djokovic couldn’t beat him very often.
Rafa will surely focus on Wimbledon now , quicker points ,and if he applies himself seriously ,he will surely go the distance. I also think he will be (super) hungry for Australian open ,2021.
I think he will have a better chance at AO then Wimbledon personally, let's see how it turns out next year!
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Really? He’s been very good at Wimbledon lately. He pushed Djokovic to 5 in 2018, and in 2019 he crushed a difficult draw before losing a tight 4-setter to Federer, and I believe Nadal didnt even play very well in that match.
@@SJ-di5zu and dont forget he pushed djokovic to 5 after edging delpo in a 5 hour 5 set thriller so he wasn't at his best physically
@@SJ-di5zu Ok. Djokovic was just gaining confidence in 2018. You cannot add that match. Djokovic hadn't won a major in 2 years.
I agree with Gill on this one. I think rafa in 2008 played his best not just on clay but the level he reached that summer is unbelievable
Rafa 08 was indeed playing at almost perfection
RAFA 2008. WAS THE BEST BY FAR.
I do honestly think that 2018-2020 Rafa is the best we've seen on both Hard Courts and Clay in terms of consistency. Maybe he hasn't had many stand alone matches at top top level, but he goes into any tournament (excluding Wimbledon) with a decent chance at the title and he's having much less upsets than he used to
2013 was better.
2017 French??? That was Godly
To me 2008 was the best. Not as powerful as now but unbelievable mover. So fast and agile.
2008 and 2010 Rafa was in beast mode considering all court performances. 2013 was amazing too, specially considering his injury comeback to win RG and also the way he dismantled Djoker @ the US Open. 2017 onwards Rafa is different. He is older, little slower but much wiser. But I agree with Gill, young Rafa was more ominous. Federer would still be losing against him, even with his adjusted backhand. As young Rafa was too fast to handle.
@@rafiqi1328 yeah I guess it's quite subjective. For me I've recently looked back on 2008-2010 and I think the sport has evolved since then, and is played at a higher level in general. Again personal opinion but I like seeing a complete game, and pre 2012ish I see a few holes in his game that likely would have been exploited by quite a few of the top guys post 2015. I look at his greatly improved serve, backhand, net play and mental game and think it could actually be better around than the fast young and powerful guy in 2008-10.
I think some statistics get exaggerated too, as I think the depth in quality in the professional game is a little greater in the late 2010s than it was in the late 2000s. Obviously we look back at how good Fedal were, but taking a critical view I do think the depth especially ranks 4-20 were really lacking, making (in my opinion) a lot of his titles around that time, especially on clay, less impressive than a lot of titles in the last 3-4 years where he has had to face tougher draws and play quality tennis from the start
Depends on how you look at it. When he was younger no one could touch him physically, and now few can touch him mentally.
Very well said Helen I agree
2008. ROLAND GARROS
Best Nadal ever
In my opinion, this applies to Nadal period, not just on clay.
@@helenclarke4735 Yes.. That is correct..
Nadal 2008.plus 2009.Australian open is the best Nadal ever.
@@helenclarke4735 he wasn’t as good on hard courts but during his long win streak his backhand was incredible, and that’s what launched his insane win streak over 3 different surfaces.
This is (RG 2020 final) best performance Nadal ever. And it is so so clear. I dont understand who say diferrent. Apsolutly clear.
A great performance indeed
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Nadal is playing the Paris Masters
Before I start watching your video I have to go with the 2008 French open final against Fed. Rafa’s level in that match never went down. He made 8 unforced errors in the middle part of set 3 against Novak on Sunday.
All members of the big 3 were more fun to watch when they were younger because we didn’t know what to expect.
Excellent video of course for us Rafa fans. It’s fun to watch the both of you because you’re both very bright. Tahmid you’re are more stats oriented than Gill. Your style on your channel reminds me of Fed’s tennis game. Gill’s show reminds me more of Rafa’s tennis game. Both work.
I’m still disappointed Rafa didn’t play the us open. 21 slam victories was there for the taking.
Man you’re fast 😂
I think we should just be content with Rafa winning RG and not think too much about what could have been at the US open.
@@samteddy1105 - This is true but some of us are greedy.
@@LeadfootLou hhaha I agree. Don’t worry Rafa will end up with the highest anyway 😉
2008 definitely was an insane level but is Roger a better clay courter than Novak? And nice description of our tennis channel styles haha, I suppose you must like Gills channel more then as a Rafa fan ;)
I would also like to know how Novak vs Rafa rivalry transcends beyond clay. I would still consider Rafa to have a slighter edge on USOP (he is leading their H2H). They are pretty closely matched at SW19 (the 2018 Semis ), but I will give Djoker the edge. But do you guys think Nadal now has planted a Shadow of doubt on Novak when playing against him moving forward? I personally think so. Nadal made some adjustments, like moving up to return better, keeping the drop shots in check and then handling Djoker's backhand by mixing up with some looping balls near the baseline and DTL forehands. Please let us know your thoughts?
Of cors...absolutely true . All i know is he is well trained and mastered on clay court. He is a great humble tennis icon👍
Indeed! For me he's arguably the most humble out of the big 3, altho I think all 3 conduct themselves well generally
Thanks for episode nr 2 🙂
Thank you my friend :)
Another good discussion. But i think it is hard to go against mental toughness which Rafa has so much abundance of. He’s such a fighter! And whatever he plans from now, we can expect no less from him. Thanks and much 💕 from the 🇵🇭
Thank you and very glad to have fellow tennis fans from the Philippines! And indeed Rafas mental game is very strong! As is Novaks of course
The 2017 Roland Garros run could be the best level out of any player ever, the 2008 run is also up there.
Both amazing years and performances from Rafa for sure
I fully agree.2017 was best
2008. RG Best ever Nadao
Gill is awesome and for those not familiar with him u should check out his channel. The only time he comes up short is when speaking about Rafa. He constantly sells him short and underestimates him- he picked Dhokovic to win and keeps sayong Rafa isnt as good as he used to be. With all due respect that's hogwash!! Hes got a much more aggressive serve now, his backhand is light years better, he wins more return points now, he has more variety now, and the one issue Gill harps on is his speed. Rafa's speed isnt that far off from his peak-- u can only name a few players with better speed and movement. The players have actually already weighed in and they said that their version today would smoke their younger versions. Now I gotta get out the tapes and go hunting gor the videos-- but both Novak and Rafa have said they are better now and I agree with them.
I think Gil predicted Rafa wins in 5 .
@@Zain-mg3yk maybe the pick before the final but on the preview show where he was reviewing the draw I'm pretty sure he picked Djokovic (although if u say otherwise and I'm remembering wrong then my bad). Gill also guranteed that Djoker would be much better on serve- he practicully guaranteed it. But I wont give him a hard time for those bad predictions cuz hes putting himself out there and predicting. I give him props for putting it out there and taking any chance. And I mentioned I'm a huge fan of his but seriously I do feel he doesn't give Rafa enough repsect and doubts him way too much. But Rafa has been doubted his entire career so its normal. Out of the three Rafa definitely doubted the most time and time again. Hes made a career out of prooving people wrong so its all good.
@@zerekanthony2203 I saw his prediction a few hours before the final. I dont get why everybody doubts Rafa. I wonder who are they going to be hyping next May as the favourite to beat Rafa. Its unbelievable😄. Have you had a look at the stats of who is the greatest returner in the game. Hint: It's not the Djoker. Courier tweeted about it as well this month. Cheers!
I picked Rafa to win before the tournament. I picked Rafa to win before the match.
@@GillGross lier lier butter flyer u said u pick 5 wen you are not sure who is going to win. Own up to your comment now
My thoughts are that the best Rafa overall was 2010. His best clay year 2008, also very good 2017, 2020. He is not moving better than he was 10 years ago but he has improved many parts of his game. Ive said recently that he has adapted his game as needed more than anybody , ever.
To all of you who say this 2020 RG Rafa is the best ever Rafa because he is smarter, plays with more variety etc etc.
I will say this.
You dont have a clue about tennis.
2008. RGNadal was BY FAR the best ever Rafa ..
He gave Verdasco 3 games
Almagro in semis 3 games
Fed in the finals 4 games.
Why was that Rafa the best Rafa ever?
Because he was a beast physically.
Because he was so fast, so strong, so explosive.
He could hit a winner from every position.
His passing shots then were almost impossible and thats the biggest difference between Nadal now and then.
Nadal today doesnt have the speed, strength and explosiveness he had back then.
Then he could have played 10 hours on the same level and this Nadal today drops his level in the third set.
We saw that against Diego in the semis, we saw that in the finals.
So please, spare me your theories.
Brains and variety cannot beat physicallity .
Still, Nadal was smart even in 2008.
@ppm120667
@ppm120667 What you said changes nothing.
Serve is not THAT important on clay.
Yes, to set his second shot up but not that crucial.
His FH was good enough then, his BH was also good then.
He doesnt need volleys.
Nadal just needed to be dominant physically.
Thats what he was.
He was a beast then and this Nadal could not beat 2008.Nadal because of one simple reason.
This Nadal would not be able to win points against 2008.Nadal.
Because 2008.Nadal was faster, stronger and more explosive, more durable, he needed just keep the ball deep and you cannot win a point against him.
You dont need to agree with me, its fine.
But you are wrong.
P. S. Dont forget that Nadal needs to be more agressive today, he didnt need to be agressive then.
He was a beast.
@ppm120667 I was talking about 2008. Roland Garros Nadal and toady's RG Nadal, i never said a word about other surfaces.
@ppm120667 Yep, but the 2008.version of Rafa doesnt need to hit through these conditions because he was so dominant physically.
Thats the thing.
Well if we talk about other surfaces, you need to go and watch again 2009.Australian open finals Rafa against Federer.
What he did in that match defensively, from almost impossible positions against Federer, that was out of this world.
P. S. Nadal needed to change many thing and still needs to primarily because he is as dominant physically as he used to.
Thats why he needs to be more agressive today.
@ppm120667 Its easy to beat that argument.
2020 RG Nadal played amazing tennis 2 and half sets against Diego in semis and Nole in finals, then in the 2nd half of the 3rd set, Rafa's level started to drop a bit.
2008. RG Rafa could play on the same beast level for 10 sets.
What about his finals in 2017, 2018, 2019 ? The way he crushed Wawrinka and Thiem was frightening 😱
Hmmmm very good question. I think the Nadal who demolished Wawrinka in 2017 to win La Decima would beat any other Nadal on clay. But at the same time, it is hard to look past his performance against Novak last Sunday. Not only was he scarily good, he also got his tactics spot on. That would be an interesting match up for sure.
Yeah I think tactically Nadal was spot on.. But of course he looks so impressive every RG that it's hard to pick one! Great comment thank you for sharing and also glad to have you on the channel
Gill is the man.
Indeed!
Thanks!
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum slice is shit you know it as well. Gill is the man glad u came to know
Thiem's USO win has an asterisk the size of a mountain next to it, especially considering how bad Zverev was playing in the last 3 sets.
Wow tough to please haha.. Size of a mountain made me laugh 😂⛰️
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Certainly! For me at least, and I am sure for many others who have become used to the big 3, this straight set FO final had more quality in it than that "five set" drama!
Only a Chokosquirrel would say that... roger fans wouldn’t dare being he didn’t have to face Rafa and Novak as much as Novak and Rafa had to face each other... Rafa fans aren’t stupid or disrespectful enough to say that... stay salty your master Defaultovic’d himself 😂!!!!! Thiem took the trophy GOATdal gifted him like a bully takes candy from a baby 😂!!!! Haile Dominator!!!
Because you said so? Lol, oh you folks.
So glad to see you two doing a video. Can't wait for the third video about Novak.
I would also like to hear you opinion on this: do you think Novak can defeat Rafa in RG in the future? You talked about Thiem, but what do you think about Novak's chances?
Only if Rafa is hurt 😂!!!!!
For sure Novak can although will be very difficult as we have seen but he's done it once, will probably need to play his best ever tennis to get another win though
I would also like to know how Novak vs Rafa rivalry transcends beyond clay. I would still consider Rafa to have a slighter edge on USOP (he is leading their H2H). They are pretty closely matched at SW19 (the 2018 Semis ), but I will give Djoker the edge. But do you guys think Nadal now has planted a Shadow of doubt on Novak when playing against him moving forward? I personally think so. Nadal made some adjustments, like moving up to return better, keeping the drop shots in check and then handling Djoker's backhand by mixing up with some looping balls near the baseline and DTL forehands. Please let us know your thoughts?
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum that was in 2015 when Rafa was going through a slump. I am sure you are aware. Rafa was down in his rankings, low in confidence; he was even playing ATP250 clay court events to get reps. And no wonder they met in the QF @ RG and peak Novak had a walk in the park. Not that I am taking credit away from Novak, but Nadal was below 50% his top level for sure.
Novak?? Lol bagel eater
My question to @Gil Gross, do you think a full pack RG of fans can change complexion of this match especially on 5-5 at third? I am a big fan of Nadal and I think the less audience calmed Nadal and was able to focus much more.
I still firmly believe 2017 French open version of Rafa is the best..
Rafa was pretty dominant that year.. difficult to pick his best year!
2008 is also good
I would agree 2017 Rafa was so good. I think the level of opponent he beat 2017 was much better than this year (besides maybe novak). He destroyed wawrinka and thiem that year and his movement was so good. This year I think he was better tactically and was more aware of how to best approach each opponent tactically this year.
@@simonsimonovic4478 2008 is the best. Not good
@@jonbonesmahomes7472
I agree
Hey tahmid bro....
I wannna ask where can i watch nadal vs djokovic rg 2020 full match again....is there any website for that.... Cuz i can't find.... All i see is highlights from youtube
hey sorry i dont know where you can watch the full match, depends on which country you are from really.. sorry to not be any help!
Do you have Reddit?
Their mental strength is the key to their constant win the new wave of tennis players lack that mental strength
Brilliantly said
Tahmid could you do a video about "Do you think Novak Djokovic will win the USO again?"
The reason I ask this is because since 2016 Novak has really struggled in the USO like Roger Federer did at a similar age. When Djokovic has played a full season since 2016 he seems to fall short in the USO. 2016, he was injured and lost the final, 2017 he withdrew, 2018 he won but he didn't play a full season, 2019 he retired injured and 2020 a default.
One point which you missed that could support your argument that this was Nadal's greatest performance is that Djokovic had gotten into Nadal's head. I believe Nadal had more at stake than Djokovic had. Were he to lose for the first time in the RG final, Djokovic would be just one GS away from Nadal and Australian open was coming up next.
I think the fact that Nadal could almost forget that he could lose this match made this arguably his best performance on clay.
Very good point thank you for sharing! Yep it seemed like perhaps Novak had gotten into Rafas head and had the mental advantage which Rafa very convincingly proved wasn't the case!
Nadal defeated Novak in Rome last year so Novak wasn't in his head. But Novak's level on Sunday doesn't come close to the level of Nadal's past opponents in F.O Finals. In 2011 Nadal had to beat three top 5 players to win the title: Soderling #5,Andy Murray (4) and Federer (3)
These three were playing at a much higher level than 2020 Novak.
2019 Thiem > 2020 Novak.
The 2010 US open was one of his best fortnites ever....serving 140 mph bombs
I would still consider Rafa being amongst the favorites to win USOP (he has better H2H against Djoker and more titles) and also Wimbledon. I wish Rafa gets one more AO, but with the timing (beginning of a season) and stiffer competition it might be unlikely. But we will see. Things are already getting complicated for Djoker/Fed in hard courts. Rafa should be able to play all slams for the next two years. And then he will play it by ear. Vamos
I agree that Rafa still can add US Open titles for sure! I'm not too sure about Wimbledon however
FO 2020, Jokovic is surpris,.........becouse, Nadal backand changed, Nadal serv, Nadal mov, everythings was chanded and better
I initially thought Rafa is playing better now but then I saw a few videos of his younger days and his speed and court coverage on clay was something else. So I say younger Rafa beats older Rafa
Mine was 100th thumb's up mate 😍🔥🎾💪
Awesome thank you so much! :)
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum i think mate u should do one chat with cam williams he is one of a kind just like u tahmid 😃
Very good observation there. In 2008 Federer was hailed as the GOAT and Nadal was (and to some still is) just a brute muscular animal that can hold a racket and play on dirty (as the British would put it)
The Roland Garros 2008 beatdown followed by the 2008 back to back Channel Slam should have showed there and then to the World, Nadal was a better overall player than Federer and he should have gotten his well deserved respect.
Unfortunately MEDIA bias still kept hammering that Federer was the better player.
Nowadays Federer having a losing record against both Nadal and Nole paints a different picture
I wonder why NADAL doesn't get the admiration he should given the ginormous proportion of what he has accomplished in his career.
For 1/50th of what he has done, Andy Murray will be consider Royalty forever in the World of Tennis.
Djokovic should get much more respect too, if you ask me.
An animal? Where you get this stuff from? Ugh...
''Is Nadal playing his best ever tennis on clay?? No, not even close... Nadal in 2008 was just unbeatable, same as 2017, same as 2013, same as 2010. Those years, Rafa displayed better tennis than this year imo. His forhand was unreal, his foot speed was ridiculous, his court coverage, his defense, everything was miles better than this year imo. But 2020, he was pretty dominant. The player that put up the biggest fight was Sinner, a youngster.
So obvious.
2008. RG was the best ever.
I cannot people dont understand that.
I think Rafa will retire with 23-25 GS...Vamos!!!!!!!!
Would be an incredible number and wouldn't argue against it!
Tahmid who do you think is possibly the toughest opponent for Nadal at Rolland Garros currently is it Thiem or djokovic . We saw djokovic trying to unleash groundstrokes but was missing a lot but Thiem is a natural Hard hitter and last yr he was pushing Nadal to limits in the first 2 sets before running out of gas due to continuous matches for 4 days i think.
أخي تحميد إذا كنت تعتقد رر إبداء رأيك في السؤال الذي طرحته لي
I think next year’s Roland Garros final will be Rafael Nadal vs Dominic Thiem and Nadal will win in 5 close sets.
Good prediction but is Thiem ready to challenge Rafa to 5 on clay?
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum correct. He showed hints of tiredness in this years FO. So, competing with rafa over a 5 setter after 2 years may not be possible for him
RAFA BE LIKE..oh boy here we go again
Thiem is becoming more of a hard court player. He is losing his "clayness".
Nadal loves clay. Do u think Thiem really loves clay? I think Thiem is simply better player than others on clay. May be Thiem himself is better on clay than on other surfaces. But did he really love clay? I think the answer is no.
In 2013 FO semifinal Rafa played 5 tough sets against Djocovic. Other finalist Ferrer destroyed Tsonga in straight sets. Ferrer is great fighter, he is a clay courter. He has the experience of defeating Nadal by then on other surfaces, if not clay(except in 2004). But when the final came, Nadal destroyed Ferrer in straight sets. That shows his love for the surface and his love for Roland Garros.
Where as Thiem played five sets against Gaston and in the next match he was defeated by a clay courter Schwartzman in five sets. Schwartzman got defeated by Nadal in straight sets.
Playing good, great or ur best on Nadal is different and loving the surface is different. A lot of players like Djocovic and Federer might be playing better than others on clay. But they don't actually like clay. They just want records on clay.
But Nadal really loves to play for hours and hours and he still will be looking fresh. He can run miles on clay, he will slide anything. You go for a dropshot he will run from 2 metres behind the baseline and still hit a winner. And he will do that 100 times. His body language looks positive always. He keep on searching answers.
We don't see that in any other player and even in Thiem. If Thiem has to face Nadal in next year RG Final, I won't give Thiem any chance.
This is true even for Nadal. Nadal hardly won an Australian Open because he don't like that place much. He is never comfortable playing there. He has no love for Australian Open. Whatever love he has, it is for the sake of records. He could never ever win AO, unless he start loving that place, love to play on that surface. This is true for Federer on grass. And for the same reason Thiem will never win Wimbledon. Because he don't like that place in the first place.
Tell me which surface Zverev loves, Thiem loves and Tsitsipas loves and next gen players love. It's ok if u don't like any surface, tell me if u really like playing Tennis and love to win against the best players. To some extent Thiem is ready for challenge and want to challenge the best on their best surfaces. That is he has more success against big 4.
Thiem is definitely up there with the Big 3, mentally speaking. This is a big achievement. But he beats himself down with his style of play. He needs to add more sophistication and variety to his game to keep points short. He probably needs to go through 2 of the Big 3 to win a major. He cannot handle multiple 5 setters in a single major. AO, RG this year are some prime examples.
Ao 2021 will be hard for Djokovic anyway he still the favourite.
will be discussed in part 3!
So is Federer! I'm sure, he's keen for a revenge match up following AO2020 semi finals defeat!
@@pauljohnson6019 he will smoke roger,roger is done .rafa and djoker both will break roger record
@@rishbahpandey8697 Let's wait and see, don't be so confident! We don't even know, what form Roger is in now, and what form he'll be, in 3 months time, so just keep your pants on.
Depends on draw.If thiem is placed in Djokovic's draw.He can take djokovic out
2008 Final was his best.
Very interesting part 2 and statements Tahmid ! To give my humble opinion, i am leaning more towards Gill's as far as Nadal's best performance on clay. No disrespect to Nadal, yes he played fantastic on Sunday but Djokovic didnt play that good at all (and i may throwing an unpopular opinion here). His first serve percentages were terrible (he was struggling to even pass a 1st serve) and also his unforced errors were straight out very bad (and yes some of them where due to Nadal's game, but the extent they got its so much unlikely to Djokovic). About 2013 SF, as you mentioned Djokovic was a break up in the fifth set, and if not for the net incident we dont know if Nadal would be able to come back at all, just speculate. So i am also picking 2008 final vs Federer for Nadal's best performance on clay !
As for the question on how many more FOs he can win, i would say a very realistic prediction is that he reaches 15 FOs (taking into account that next year's one is almost in his bag, he will surely take one more up until the end of his career) !
Cant wait for the part 3 !
Gill is wrong to include Federal in this debate. Federal has been done and dusted since 2018.
Rafa played excellent and all the credits to him, but let's be realistic, Djokovic was not in that match at all, his face was telling everyone that he was in another place, he was like hypnotized or something had to happen before that match. I really don't know, but for sure he was another person.
I agree. They made a cybernetic model N-100 that was poorly programmed however. Either that or it was a reptilian replicant to establish new world order by tennis but failed miserably.
When you get a bring part 3
Part 3 will be out soon
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum do it fast and one more thing dont do collab with coffee break tennis guy he has mentel issues
Well, it might be the best performance from Rafa, in conditions where he was supposed to be affected negatively. But, yeah 2008, 2010, 2013 and 2017 finals, are also in the discussion of the "best performance"
Great reasoning and I agree! What made this one special was that the conditions seemed to hamper his style but he played completely through it! The years you mentioned were all brilliant performances from Rafa of course
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum exactly, the guy is simply other thing when its clay. I guess this is also because, clay os other world, i mean on grass or hardcourts maybe a big hitter can have a really great day and beat everyone, but clay demands more than that.
Actually, clay demands to beat Rafa Nadal 🤣
Djoko has lost many points on his drop shots.. i think he has a chance if he plays blow by blow with Nadal like he did on the 3rd set from the beginning... he is playing good when he hits the ball with angst.
He did seem to abandon the drop shot tactic near the end of the 3rd but I don't think he could've done anything to beat Rafa on Sunday
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum You all guys exaggerate now very much. I watched that match again, play by play, replaying most of the points many times. There were maximum 10 neutral rallies in this match, sth between 5-10 - when Rafa was unplayable. Not more than 10, for sure. The rest of the points (so majority of the points of that match) could have gone either way. It was always sth wrong with Novak's game when he was losing points (also sometimes when he was winning points): bad shot, bad movement, bad shot selection, bad tactic, bad drop shots (too short (net), too long, wrong decision to play drop shot)). Novak did a lot of great plays in this match but almost in each rally did sth wrong and that costed him so many points and games. Not the best form at all. Around 80% of top Novak. Clear example is how he couldn't handle Nadal's short low bh slices down the line which took Novak to the middle of the court. Normally he handles this shot quite well from his bh side, like against Federer in last Wimb. final. Or against Thiem in Australia (Roger and Thiem slice the ball cross court from their bh side). At the same time Rafa wasn't missing almost at all. He played at his best, slightly dropped his level in the 3rd set sometimes. Also very slow conditions helped him to handle that well Novak's serve (which was quite good since the middle of 1st set to the end of the match) and Novak's return (which was very good (many times great) almost the whole match). But it wasn't unbeatable Rafa version on clay. The same Novak wasn't unbeatable in AO 2019 final. Rafa said after that match that he wasn't at his best at defence, if he was he could many times play an extra ball and give Novak much more troubles then. Very similar matches in that way: in Australia Novak playing flawless tennis and Rafa weaker, here at RG Rafa flawless and Novak weaker. It would be great if we could see them at their best in the next two grand slam finals: 2021 AO and RG. If somebody disagree with my opinion about last RG final between those two: I really reccommend to watch that match again the same way I did.
Plot twist:
Thiem has declined at 31 and loses to 38 year old Nadal in the French Nadal.
Not wanting to take anything away from Rafa's 20th GS, but I was highly disappointed with Novak, he was never mentally in it, apart from maybe mid 3rd set/ possibly one of Novaks worst Nadal defeats, (and im a Rafa fan !!!)
He seemed to be shocked by the level Rafa was playing at which was almost near perfection! I think Novak perhaps went into the final a bit too confident of his chances because of the conditions?
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum you are right.
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Usually Novak raises his level the deeper he goes into a tournament. But his performance against Tsitsipas wasnt any better than against Careeno Busta. The fact that he couldn't raise his level in his S.F told me that he probably wouldn't raise his level In the final and he didnt .
There is NO ASTERISK on the USO!!! Defaultovic got himself kicked out 😂!!!! Thiem didn’t cheat. Thiem did his job and Chokevak failed to do his job PERIOD. 100% EARNED. Way to go Dominator!!!
Dominic definitely deserved the US Open but lets hope he wins one beating the big 3 otherwise therell always be doubters
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum hey I have been seeing u and u are not trolling covidovic at all. Why? Why couldn't you have replied to gold wolf adressing Djokovic as Defaultovic
Amen!
Novak is already GOAT, here are the facts :
1. Novak has most major titles (GS+masters+final masters)
2. Novak has the best h2h score both against Rafa and Federer.
3. Novak has most weeks as player no.1 in the world
4. Only player in history that has all masters titles (and now has TWICE each title)
5. He will be at the end of 2020 player with most years finishing as No. 1
6. Only player in history that had all 4 GS tournaments in same moment
Nadal was playing his best tennis in the Final but only because Novak made too much UE! Don’t get me wrong, Nadal deserves this Titel. But you saw him vs Sinner that he was playing on edge! I think the strategy won this match. Nadal played a lot with moon balls on Novak BH and Nadal slice was a good move. Plus Novak with his DS. For example: Novak made in the fist 9;Games 27 UE! 27! Last year at AO he Made 9! For the Entire Match. Nadal make a great move not playing in USA. This is another reason why he was so focused in the final. Novak had less fuel in the tank. Novak gonna end this year as N1 and that’s for me is more important than RG Titel. He has plenty time to reach another RG Titel.
😂!!!!!! Everyone knows who the real number 1 is... he spanked Chokevak real hard in the French Open final... his name is GOATDAL.
Nadal will win 20 French is opens. Let's be honest, Thiem and Djokovic are the closest to Nadal but they're no where near him!
I think 20 French opens is a bit of a stretch my friend!
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum but what if achieve it? Adding one more US open as well.?
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum lol it was a joke 🤣🤣 imagine though. As many french open titles as Roger Federer's grand slam Total
Gill looks and sounds like a young Bill Gates without the glasses. Anyone think that?
I'm sure I don't sound that smart :)
@@GillGross heyy you are the best tennis talker on this platform just know that.
Coffee break tennis and slice are fit to polish your shoes.
Am telling ya your love for ferrer shows the kind of attitude u like.
Nadal is best at roland gaross, and very good at other slams..being stoped manny times only by the big 2 if not for that he would have 3 times AO at least and another two wimbledon etc
I think we can say the same for all of them! They have stopped each other many times!
I'd say 15 is the realistic prediction. As Gill pointed out, Thiem is getting better and I think he has a real shot at Rafa, especially in 2-3 years when Rafa slows down even more. Let's be honest, until when can Rafa produce performances like two days ago? Do I need to remind you that he was "worse" player on the court vs Sinner in QF. So his form in the first 6 matches was not that scary as it was in finals. All in all, I think he will win at least one more but beyond that we will have to wait and see at the end of next RG.
I think they should make it fair- just deduct a set from him, each match- so things can get more interesting, or else it's already know, that he win, at least then, you give his opponents, some hopes, to beat him- seriously, maybe they should impose this rule, whenever he plays in the RG next year, or just give him the damn trophy, and skip to the finals.
Do I need to remind you the time at which nadal played sinner and had him for dinner
@@chocosquirrel3319 Obviously we watched different matches then ;-)
@@denkora do you know how clay reacts at night and day
I think, Tisitisipas is more dangros more Thiem for Nadal, 3, yearscoming
I think Nadal will win at least 4-5 french opens.
Damn thats almost 20 french opens there!
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum yes if he's not injured he will surely have it.
I could only see not more than 2 FO, next gen will eventually drag him down, may be one more USO/AO, so Rafa would have total 23 GS when he finally call it.
Rafa - 23
Novak - 22
Roger - 20
@@Malsawmakhiangte84 next gen? 😅😅😅
Considering his history of injuries I'll be conservative and say two more F.O
Thiem is a big IF. I know he got better but for me it's obvious nerves are getting to him. Even winning uso he was so hesitant, he abandoned his backhand and was too afraid and like djokovic he first need to get to the final and that IS not a guarantee as it is for Rafa.
Yes thiem could get better but he also can get worse. 2021 will answer that question.
Some good points made ahmad and I suppose we'll have to wait and see but 2021 looking like a very open and unpredictable year!
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum and you can read arabic too? Is there anything you can't do? :P keep them coming Tahmid.
@@أحمدالشمس-ق9ج ofcourse I can lol I'm Muslim ;)
🥜🥜.... let’s see how many Chokosquirrels take the bait 😂!!!! Wait... better bait 🥯🥯.... 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The best thing nadal can do is to skip us and Australia. Permanently. Just focus on French open and Wimbledon. For his health. 2 slams a year
Surely US Open is his 2nd best chance at a slam and Rafas 2nd most successful slam so he can't skip that?
Just dont comment. I mean just dont. This is not for you
Rafa does everything better nowadays except his movement but still his movement is excellent and it's hard to hit through him on clay, that's why Novak was aiming for lines a lot.
yep and so in some ways the unforced errors were kind of forced due to how well Rafa was playing
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum wen u play rafa on clay all errors are forced
I didnt see that many Great forehands down the line from Nadal In this tournament so he wasn't near Godmode. He was playing mostly low risk tennis but that's understandable considering he hasn't played in 7 months. I expect a much higher level of tennis from him at next year's Clay season.
Gill obviously any player will win Rafa he is 34 already
Djokovic is the goat. Prateek p Djokovic has won 16 of his 17 slams while playing Nadal or Federer. At least 72 wins at each major. Nadal has only won at least 53 majors at each major. Double golden masters. Nadal has 10 hard court masters out of the 6 on hard court. Djokovic has 10 clay masters 1000 tournaments out of only 3. Nadal has never won Paris, Miami, and Shanghai. Nadal has never won the nitto atp finals!!! Only 209 weeks at n1 and Djokovic 290, about to get sixth n1 at the end of the year. Shouldn’t be a debate.
Some great stats and you seem to be a super fan of Novak!
Nadal has won Shanghai
@@swagatkar5178 He has been runner up but never won
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Yeah I am. I just don't see how Nadal can be the goat when he is behind in all of those categories. Of course Djokovic is behind in grand slams, but Djokovic is much more consistent on all surfaces than Nadal therefore making him the goat.
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum Also want to confirm that djokovic won 16 of 17 grand slams while playing big 4 not big three and nadal won 14 of 20 while playing big 4
Agreed this was Rafa's best performance. Gill is totally wrong .
Rafa has 1 singles Olympic gold medal.roger can swap atleast 2 world tour finals for that.h2h in slams in favour of rafa.and they say he is clay court specialist.give me a break.isnt clay tennis?? Or is it soccer or basketball?? Take a racquet and try to defeat rafa at Roland Garros
Nadal is goat 75 percent know that
It is really hard to tell. On one hand 2008 was the year he beat Federer in his prime at Wimbledon, but on the other hand this year he beat Djokovic, whose game is more bothersome for Rafa, even on clay. The final performances are equally impressive, but I think the slow conditions this time helped Nadal more than he even thought possible at the beginning.
Regarding Thiem, I don’t think he can beat Rafa at RG until he gets too old. It is a matter of no one-handed backhand player can hurt him too much from that side and Nadal kills them with the top spin. I think it has beeb the main problem for Federer on clay during his whole career.
By the way, I love both of your content hugely. The first thing I watch when I get up 🙂
AO 2021 will depend heavily on the draw - particularly which side Thiem is on, and potentially Federer if he comes back in the same way he did in AO 2017. Novak is still the favourite but if Thiem takes him out, then Rafa has a good chance. Rafa even has a chance against Novak, better than AO 2019 anyway.
I think you are ruling Rafa out too much for Wimbledon. Past two years he has only lost to Djokovic and Federer - his form would have been enough to beat anyone else and the Federer match Rafa was not fully in mentally until the last set. No one else is playing that great on grass. Again, draw will be very important, which side Federer is on in the draw. Rafa also needs to get through the early rounds to build up his play there, taking time to adapt from French Open to grass on the go at Wimbledon as in past years by skipping Queens to preserve his body. He always takes time to work into form, but particularly so at Wimbledon.
Rafa is still the favourite at Roland Garros next year, but if he is taken out by Thiem or a Sinner type redlining player (anyone even Nadal can have a bad match), then Djokovic could win it. If Federer plays and the other big 3 are knocked out in upsets, he could still win against most player, although Tsitsipas has now established himself as a threat on clay and Thiem would still take Federer out unless he is tired out.
Anything can happen at the US Open. The only thing from recent history is that the previous champion never defends it, so count Thiem out there :P
Next year or two will be very exciting for all tennis fans. Each big 3 member has a shot to get more slams.
Thiem is stupid player, you can see sometimes R1 one tennis playe nr 300 beat Thiem,.........................Thiem you can never proud
What is the crazy thing is that Nadal has chance to win US open atleast once in his career whereas Federer lost his best chance at Wimbledon last year.
Can you see Roger winning another slam?
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum something miracle must happen then only Federer can have 1 more GS.
Nadal has one chance lol who won us last year.
The scary thing is Rafa is NOT playing his best ever 😂 and he’s still destroying Chokevak 😂!!!!! 2008 Rafa was the most beast mode Rafa ever. He was soooo much faster then. 2013 was a very close second. He was slightly slower but with bigger hitting.
Seriously, just give him the trophy in may 😂 the guy with the best chance to beat him got 7 games 😂!!!!! 🥯😂😂😂😂
Congratulations on the Nadal win, from a Djokovic supporter. I know you are a fan of Nadal, and the biggest hater of Djokovic, which is kind of funny to me, but never the less, a great performance from Nadal, and he was a deserving winner. While i agree that Nadal is better than Djokovic on clay, he always was, Djokovic was the player that could hurt Nadal most on this surface and he did over the years. This match in the final was in my opinion a mix of Djokovic mentally out of the match, and Nadal always present. Of course, I'm not saying that Djokovic would have won if he was 100%, i just think he could have performed better. Especially in the first two sets. Similar to an Australian Open final 2019, which Nadal could have played better when the situation was reversed. But, it is to be expected sometimes, these beatdowns, when these giants face off in their favorite surfaces. I just watched the highlights of this match in 2020 and their match from 2013(since you mention it), and one thing that became evident to me was that in 2013, Djokovic was much more physical, and had more power in his shots, more pace. Nadal is actually slower than before but has more variety. So, i just wanted to address that and state my opinion. Anyway, i hope for more battles in the future from the big 3, they are incredible players.
Rafa will win the next 4 Consecutive Rolland Garrosses I think.
@@djoleluk can’t disagree with anything you said 😂 🍻here’s to the next encounter between our favorites!
2008 rafa was definitely the best imo. Good power but unbelievable movement.
@@goldwolf0606 wow Mr Wolf youre turning soft... that was the most respectful comment towards Novak ive seen from you lol
Rafa will own the French until he’s 40 😂!!!! Then others will have a chance 😂 just a chance 😂!!!
You know what? You picked on my pessimism about Rafa’s chances at FO a few days ago (I don’t think you remember that, but I do) and I was kinda shocked. Now I’m starting to have some fun with your way of rooting for Rafa! 😀
Haha im not even going to argue with that!
You right, old day Sampras, Agassi, Becker, they was 32, 33, they played all tournoment every year,.and many, match bout, Nadal Federer , they dont play so many match, not all master,........they are not tierd, Nadal 38, he dont play mant match, only important match, always he is fresh
@@dqestacio 😁😂👍
I was fine until you guys diminished Thiem’s USO win. That’s not right!
No one was diminishing anything from Dominic! Sorry if it seemed that way
@@TahmidSalehTennisForum It did.
2012 Rafa would beat God too.