I was born in 1950 in Oshawa & remember riding streetcars in Ottawa. It's a shame they got rid of streetcars in 1957 in both Ottawa & Vancouver. When I was in Australia in 1987, I noticed there was triple-gauge track in Peterborough, South Australia Broad, standard & narrow (i.e. 4 rails). Being a "train-a-holic" I have traveled over 250,000 km by rail since 1955 including 51x on "The Canadian" dome train. Thanks for the explaining the Toronto gauge. Cheers from Vancouver.
I'm not as enthusiastic about trains as you are but I do find them fascinating. Anyway, I'm finally doing the Agawa Canyon Tour this year and I couldn't be more excited. Have you been? If yes, how was it?
I did the Agawa Canyon train and enjoyed it greatly, but that was a couple of decades and a couple of changes of ownership ago so I don't know what it's like these days. The scenery's great, though!
On a related note, dual gauge track between the TTC gauge and standard gauge is not possible except where there is enough lateral clearance for interlaced track. The Toronto network is also large and interconnected and this guaranteed that the TTC gauge would remain. A major omission from this video is why changing the TTC width to standard gauge is more complicated than it is worth and why it is more costly and disruptive than, say, migrating from trolley-pole to pantograph current collection.
That explains how RT trains were bought by Detroit. I had this question running thru out the video and then you said they were standard system.. great 👍🏻
Funny, but the compatibility issue never crossed my mind!! I also never knew the Scarborough RT was built using standard gauge. I just assumed that all rail transit in Toronto was Toronto gauge! I, however, did hear that the Eglinton crosstown was being built using standard gauge, as is the FInch line.
The premier of Ontario was Bill Davis who insisted on the now defunct Scarbrough LRT. At the time I was thinking this was a big mistake but not extending the subway line. Fast forward to today and they decommissioned the LRT to build a NEW subway extension costing billions of dollars.
In fairness, in 1985, Scarborough wasn't big enough or dense enough to warrant a full on subway. It just ended up that way. Building the line 2 extension back then made no sense. We just couldn't have foretold that it would be needed in the future. Plus, had we gotten our original Scarborough RT using streetcar vehicles, we wouldn't have needed to close it most likely.
I know I lived in that area of Kenedy and Eglinton ave at the time they had just finished getting the subway from warden to Kenedy and we thought the next part would be the extension to the Scarborough Town Center but Bill Davis wanted to get these new little train's from a brand new company in Kingston Ont to create jobs in Ontario and put these stupid things in there instead they said at the time that they would be fully automatic but the TTC union said they had to have a driver or they would protest it these are the same unit's that they put at the Toronto Zoo and the brakes failed on them no smart thinking back then should have continued with the subway extension in 77 and we wouldn't be in this mess
@@stingray1irwin0 There was no fixing the SRT. They had considered this in the early 2000s and even planned to get new vehicles but the only new vehicles were too big for the curve at Kennedy and the Curve between Ellesmere and Midland. They would've had to make expensive modifications and ultimately decided it wasn't worth it. Plus, they could never get the funding for that.
Thank you for an informative video. I've been a railfan for nearly sixty years, but I'd never heard of Toronto gauge until today. But I live in the UK and have never visited Toronto.
I live in Toronto, and just recently heard of Toronto gauge. I researched railway gauges, and found out there are quite a number of different gauges used around the world. I was surprised to see Toronto gauge listed!!
Good job Steve. I would add more labels like you did at Kennedy Station for all locations you record just to help viewers know where you’re set up. A beneficial improvement IMO.
I agree... for purely selfish reasons because I was born and raised in Toronto but moved away in the early 90s. Some of those locations look vaguely familiar but a location tag would be great.
Thanks for the feedback. I usually put a caption if I'm talking about the location of the shot, and don't if I'm not - and most of the locations in this video are just places where there's a streetcar in the background. I'll keep that in mind, though.
@@notsmoothsteve Oh The Urbanity on RUclips uses a lot of footage of different areas across Canada (and the US), and they always put a location caption even if the footage is only tangentially related. It doesn't detract from the video at all, and it helps curious viewers learn more.
Good video! Audio quality excellent. This is so close to being a great video, just an hour of editing. Pop in some eye-candy, or a photo of an item being talked about, every time the sentence changes. Thankfully B-roll is easy, and everybody loves watching that.
Always enjoy your video's for the insight due to great research and a willingness to share it like you do. So even you 1:39 get a pass for a rare pause and stumble trying to remember every detail. (and having the character not to edit it out) Keep up the great work.
@@deeg8849 not officially, but people do occasionally make suggestions, and if it's something I think I could turn into an interesting video, I might put it on the list of ideas.
While I'm guessing this was looked into and dismissed as impractical, I am left to wonder about the possibility of using the elevated SRT tracks for some other RT system, possibly even replacing the tracks with Toronto gauge. It would seem to be a preferable option to keep people moving while the Ontario Line is built.
There had been talk about possibly doing that since long before the RT came crashing to a halt. As always with transit in Toronto, politics and money get in the way.
Darn that dastardly algorithm! Somewhere on the page where it says you're subscribed (probably different depending on app vs. browser) there's an option for what notifications you get, and if you set it to "all" notifications from my channel hopefully that may help. I only release a video every couple of weeks so you needn't fear being deluged with notifications from me :-)
The fact the Subway ended up on Toronto gauge to save money for a service car and a maintenance shop is idiocy. Had the Subway been done at Standard then maybe mods could have been made to connect the RT directly to the Subway (just lengthen the RT platforms)
The immediate (and I use that term loosely) plan is to run replacement buses along that right of way until the subway extension opens ... but what form exactly that will take or when it will happen seems to be up in the air. And after that, I'm sure council will have a debate for several years about whether to tear it down, turn it into an elevated linear park like New York's high line, or something else.
I love your videos but cant stand the terribly slow transitions - I totally can appreciate the creative choice , but youre very likely losing out of a massive audience due to the editing style. Cheers - looking fwd to more
I just love hearing about the history of Toronto that I live.
I was born in 1950 in Oshawa & remember riding streetcars in Ottawa. It's a shame they got rid of streetcars in 1957 in both Ottawa & Vancouver. When I was in Australia in 1987, I noticed there was triple-gauge track in Peterborough, South Australia Broad, standard & narrow (i.e. 4 rails). Being a "train-a-holic" I have traveled over 250,000 km by rail since 1955 including 51x on "The Canadian" dome train. Thanks for the explaining the Toronto gauge. Cheers from Vancouver.
I'm not as enthusiastic about trains as you are but I do find them fascinating. Anyway, I'm finally doing the Agawa Canyon Tour this year and I couldn't be more excited. Have you been? If yes, how was it?
@@conradmcdougall3629 I did not take that train, but my father did.
I did the Agawa Canyon train and enjoyed it greatly, but that was a couple of decades and a couple of changes of ownership ago so I don't know what it's like these days. The scenery's great, though!
Was the sky brighter back then ?
On a related note, dual gauge track between the TTC gauge and standard gauge is not possible except where there is enough lateral clearance for interlaced track. The Toronto network is also large and interconnected and this guaranteed that the TTC gauge would remain.
A major omission from this video is why changing the TTC width to standard gauge is more complicated than it is worth and why it is more costly and disruptive than, say, migrating from trolley-pole to pantograph current collection.
Toronto's Tom Scott 👀
That explains how RT trains were bought by Detroit. I had this question running thru out the video and then you said they were standard system.. great 👍🏻
A few other places, including Vancouver, also bought these.
Funny, but the compatibility issue never crossed my mind!! I also never knew the Scarborough RT was built using standard gauge. I just assumed that all rail transit in Toronto was Toronto gauge! I, however, did hear that the Eglinton crosstown was being built using standard gauge, as is the FInch line.
The premier of Ontario was Bill Davis who insisted on the now defunct Scarbrough LRT. At the time I was thinking this was a big mistake but not extending the subway line. Fast forward to today and they decommissioned the LRT to build a NEW subway extension costing billions of dollars.
In fairness, in 1985, Scarborough wasn't big enough or dense enough to warrant a full on subway. It just ended up that way. Building the line 2 extension back then made no sense. We just couldn't have foretold that it would be needed in the future. Plus, had we gotten our original Scarborough RT using streetcar vehicles, we wouldn't have needed to close it most likely.
I know I lived in that area of Kenedy and Eglinton ave at the time they had just finished getting the subway from warden to Kenedy and we thought the next part would be the extension to the Scarborough Town Center but Bill Davis wanted to get these new little train's from a brand new company in Kingston Ont to create jobs in Ontario and put these stupid things in there instead they said at the time that they would be fully automatic but the TTC union said they had to have a driver or they would protest it these are the same unit's that they put at the Toronto Zoo and the brakes failed on them no smart thinking back then should have continued with the subway extension in 77 and we wouldn't be in this mess
And the extension is a ridiculous boondoggle and the srt should have been fixed.
@@stingray1irwin0 There was no fixing the SRT. They had considered this in the early 2000s and even planned to get new vehicles but the only new vehicles were too big for the curve at Kennedy and the Curve between Ellesmere and Midland. They would've had to make expensive modifications and ultimately decided it wasn't worth it. Plus, they could never get the funding for that.
Thank you for an informative video. I've been a railfan for nearly sixty years, but I'd never heard of Toronto gauge until today. But I live in the UK and have never visited Toronto.
I live just outside of Toronto and I didn't know this either
I live in Toronto, and just recently heard of Toronto gauge. I researched railway gauges, and found out there are quite a number of different gauges used around the world. I was surprised to see Toronto gauge listed!!
Awesome - thanks so much for creating this great slice of history.
well researched and presented as always. thank you for your content.
Good job Steve. I would add more labels like you did at Kennedy Station for all locations you record just to help viewers know where you’re set up. A beneficial improvement IMO.
I agree... for purely selfish reasons because I was born and raised in Toronto but moved away in the early 90s. Some of those locations look vaguely familiar but a location tag would be great.
Thanks for the feedback. I usually put a caption if I'm talking about the location of the shot, and don't if I'm not - and most of the locations in this video are just places where there's a streetcar in the background. I'll keep that in mind, though.
@@notsmoothsteve Oh The Urbanity on RUclips uses a lot of footage of different areas across Canada (and the US), and they always put a location caption even if the footage is only tangentially related. It doesn't detract from the video at all, and it helps curious viewers learn more.
Your confidence in your narrations is improving Steve! 👍
You could say he's getting... Smoother
Such a cool insight into the history of Toronto!!
Can you do a video on the Junctions prohibition?
Oooh, thanks for an interesting idea! No promises, but I've put it on my list of possible future videos.
This video, and others would be great for school classes for kids.
Good video! Audio quality excellent. This is so close to being a great video, just an hour of editing. Pop in some eye-candy, or a photo of an item being talked about, every time the sentence changes. Thankfully B-roll is easy, and everybody loves watching that.
thank you again for another entertaining and educational video!!
next time somebody tells me "it's Churrono not ToRonTo", I'll say, "ummm actually it's 'muddy york'"
Lol. I now live in the US. When I tell people where I'm from they often remark how much they like "Toe-RON-Toe"
As an American I call it TorOnTo but when I’m in Canada I pronounce it “TerAnna” cause that’s how my calgarian friends call it.
Always enjoy your video's for the insight due to great research and a willingness to share it like you do. So even you 1:39 get a pass for a rare pause and stumble trying to remember every detail. (and having the character not to edit it out) Keep up the great work.
Yeah, this whole "narrate from memory for a couple of minutes" thing isn't as easy as the pros make it seem!
@@notsmoothsteve Cheers Steve. I appreciate your videos a lot. Do you take new topic requests?
@@deeg8849 not officially, but people do occasionally make suggestions, and if it's something I think I could turn into an interesting video, I might put it on the list of ideas.
Great 👍🏻 video love the content and history
Love these videos! Also love that you don't edit out any mistakes for the namesake of your channel!, lol
Awesome video! Thanks.
While I'm guessing this was looked into and dismissed as impractical, I am left to wonder about the possibility of using the elevated SRT tracks for some other RT system, possibly even replacing the tracks with Toronto gauge. It would seem to be a preferable option to keep people moving while the Ontario Line is built.
There had been talk about possibly doing that since long before the RT came crashing to a halt. As always with transit in Toronto, politics and money get in the way.
Another great video!
Hey I found info why TTC Gauge because Ttc didnt want CN & CPR ride on Streetcars tracks area Queen Quays .
Love your content!
Third! Very informative!
This wasn’t in my feed even though I’m subbed
Darn that dastardly algorithm! Somewhere on the page where it says you're subscribed (probably different depending on app vs. browser) there's an option for what notifications you get, and if you set it to "all" notifications from my channel hopefully that may help. I only release a video every couple of weeks so you needn't fear being deluged with notifications from me :-)
You sure have a SWELL!!! locomotive T-shirt 🚂 , plus i am enjoying ALL!!! your films as well . So Long! - 7/26/2024 🤠
I don't always have a t-shirt that fits a particular video, but when I do, I make sure to use it!
TIL: why its called Muddy York Brewing.
The fact the Subway ended up on Toronto gauge to save money for a service car and a maintenance shop is idiocy. Had the Subway been done at Standard then maybe mods could have been made to connect the RT directly to the Subway (just lengthen the RT platforms)
You know of you're looking for an answer to the question of which explanation for the gage, you can always do a seance at Mackenzie House.😊
I suppose there is a certain beauty to the complex inefficiency that was imposed by the
drive for profit, but it is baffling to me.
Is there a timeline for removing the RT or will that loop be there forever like ghost streetcar tracks all over the city?
I think they are gonna make a it walkway/park/trail kinda thing.
It's going to be an eyesore no matter what they do with it.
The immediate (and I use that term loosely) plan is to run replacement buses along that right of way until the subway extension opens ... but what form exactly that will take or when it will happen seems to be up in the air. And after that, I'm sure council will have a debate for several years about whether to tear it down, turn it into an elevated linear park like New York's high line, or something else.
Hamilton is getting its rails back.... Eventually...
First!
I think you're the first first, too - I don't remember anyone doing the "first!" thing on any of my previous videos :-)
@@notsmoothsteve It's an honor 🫡 keep up the good content!
I love your videos but cant stand the terribly slow transitions - I totally can appreciate the creative choice , but youre very likely losing out of a massive audience due to the editing style. Cheers - looking fwd to more