5 reasons to disregard everything said in this video. 1. It’s Nemesis 2. If you don’t own any Nemesis you need to own some Nemesis 3. If you already own Nemesis you simply need more Nemesis 4. Your grandma, aunt, uncle and dog need to own a copy of Nemesis 5. If you do nothing but look at the box cover of your copy you got your moneys worth because it’s Nemesis.
The campaign ended earlier this month so no more pledges until the Pledge Manager opens up. The PM should open within about 3 months to where late pledges can be made. So check back in with Gamefound around March next year and you should be able to make a late pledge. @@olumarkfatungase7556
@@rogadip I don't ever think it's fair to just dump on a game without providing the reasons why someone is excited, and I'm excited about this game so I would be being disingenuous if I just made a video for the sole purpose of being contrary.
Regarding oxygen, I saw a very cool proposal to change the way this mechanic works, in the comments on Gamefound - replace the death of a character (when the oxygen runs out) with an infection card, possibly with a serious wound, which is thematically more justified, since there is air at the base, but it is infected.
Oxygen is there to balance out the secure corridors. Securing is super powerful and most of the plays I'm seeing are a bit easy so far, with not that many aliens. So its to put some kind of pressure to get tanks or the oxygen turned on. Otherwise players will take their time and secure everything and then games get quite easy and samey. Overall, I think the game needs more aliens out- the tension in the playthroughs so far are quite light, with several just steam rolling the queen, uncovering the objective, and then heading out.
In consideration of your 5 reasons, maybe this is a branch from the Nemesis tree for newcomers; 5. Too much coop - I could see people coming from the older Nemesis games might not like that, I'm coming from Zombicide :P 4. Oxygen management - My immediate thought was to ignore it, anything oxygen related, redraw. When playing Zombicide, we'd add our own modifiers to keep things interesting, maybe we don't want to play with the Orc Horde or maybe we add in Murder of Crows or introduce animal companions. My favorite was finding a bottle of water and canned food, they only give 1xp if discarded, instead we would combine them to restore 1hp 3. Extras - I don't own any previous Nemesis but played a couple rounds of the first game and plan on painting these bad bois, current hyper-focus. Didn't get the Sundrop, it'd be another $75 AUD that'll take a few minutes to do. 2. Why Retaliation - Huge fan of Riddley Scott's Aliens, Nemesis reminded me of Alien (sneak gameplay), Lockdown reminded me of Alien 3 (never played it, but seemed like a similar playstyle but in a building), Retaliation looks like Aliens. Game over man, game over! - 10/10 movie 1. Does not apply to me as it's my first Nemesis game with only a couple rounds of the OG in the last 3 years. Great video, I enjoyed the insight and comparisons
Great video. Thanks. I've pretty much found a way to avoid FOMO in the last year - which is not easy - but lately I have been able to pull myself away from it. Trust me, it can be done and you may not even notice what you are lacking after a few months... (To be honest, it takes so long for crowdsourcing products to arrive, I generally forget what was in the original campaign long before the game arrives anyway.) I've learned that it's worse to have a shelf of shame after purchasing bloat that never gets played rather than regretting what I could have gotten.) FYI, I have all-in's on Nemesis AND Lockdown (minus all the alternative sculpts and cats which are ridiculously not needed.) I am heavily leaning toward either not getting Retaliation at all, or most probably getting the Standee basic version which is a great price for all the game content it offers. I may not even use the standees in that I have many mini alien races from the previous 2 games (how many races do I have already?) and tons of mini characters that can substitute onto the boardgame for that full visual impact. (Does it REALLY matter if I use the new Queen in Retaliation or just the Intruder Queen and her brood ... after all, it is the cards that drive the plastic around.) So, just the standee version driven by all the plastic and terrain I already own should be more than enough for my personal tastes.
For me its always the same reasons and do back 2 games per year of 30ish I want to back: - do I want to spend money for something I get in 18+ months? - do I want to get so much material? I feel burdened by possession - Will I play it 10+ times? (There are so few games where I did, and only 2 were from crowdfunding. - Is it a better thing than the game I didnt back 1 month ago, or is it because i didnt get the other game? - Is it gonna be fiddly or a lot of reading?
Too late my friend, I already got Collectors pledge 😅 On top of that I purchased Aftermath and Medic too! I love original Nemesis and I can't wait to play it with new characters! Also those doors from terrain pack will be used for original Nemesis too 😊
I did not even like the first two and yet for some weird reason this one was calling to me, something about this one feels different and fresh ... the exploration looked intriguing and I am a sucker for tile exploration in board games ... so yeah despite all the logic and past experiences telling me not to back it... I also went for a collector pledge!
You bring up some really good points here. If we're being honest, I'm still gonna order the game anyway, but some parts of the campaign itself did kind of rub me the wrong way. Specifically, the acrylic pack should not have been a separate purchase imo. Or they should've at least made it a part of the Special edition stretch goal. From what I've seen thus far (they still haven't revealed day 7 stretch goal yet), all these add-ons (acrylic pack, terrain pack) could've easily made a part of the stretch goal. I don't mind giving them a few extra bucks, you can tell they've done a pretty solid job, but I gotta admit that it does feel like a last-minute cash grab. Just yesterday (day 5 goal was released) they revealed this space cat cube to be a part of the stretch goal, along with some malfunction tokens. Completely irrelevant to the game imo. And you're right, most of the time you won't even play the extra races. I played the fungi race once I think, didn't really do much and haven't touched them since. Total waste of space. If it weren't for the doors and the rover mini, as well as the comic book, I never would've purchased it in the first place. Speaking of minis, there's this thing they do with the queen mini that almost feels...dare I say, intentional. Apart from the original iteration, which was dope, all the Queen minis are designed in a way that you want them to be replaced by the alternate version. They did it in lockdown, and now they do it again. It's not a big deal and, like I said, I'll still get it anyway, I just wish they wouldn't make you pay for all these things that could've been handled differently to achieve greater customer satisfaction in the long run. I mean, I get where it's coming from, at the end of the day they do this for the coins, it's just that this type of marketing always gives the icky feeling.
This is a great video. The Terrain pack for original Nemesis is like $60, just for some minis of things like doors and corpses. For $60, you can get some really great entire board games! It's good to be reminded to think about value. I have Nemesis and it does what I want. I don't feel compelled to get Lockdown or Annihilation and use more shelf space, and I definitely can't be convinced to invest in a game I won't see for 2 years.
I'm glad AR decided to increase the size of the player characters back to 28mm. We also use to mini's in other games and it would look silly otherwise. I also paint them and going smaller makes it a bit to hard to paint them The scale of the Intruders are not a problem. I die meet the AR staff at SPIEL in Essen this year and when they explained the gameplay I was hooked again and I could be Zack's brother because I have every Nemesis product myself
tbh, the original intruder minis were way big. They were already scary enough, there was no need to make them as big but whatever. I'm just glad they listened to reason and didn't stick with the smaller minis of the main characters. That would've made the game incompatible with the previous iterations.
Here's my actual thoughts: I haven't played either prior Nemesis game but have definitely heard all of the hype. The thing that excited me the most was people saying it was the "best Alien game ever made" whereas this one seems like like Aliens than Alien. And I'm more interested in a game where I have to cooperate with friends to run in terror and complete tasks and escape than a game where we all run in guns blazing and blow up aliens. Should I just get Lockdown instead?
Nemesis (original) is the closest to the Alien theme. The crew are better equipped than in Alien, and they're all attempting to accomplish their own goals. Working together is usually because it's mutually beneficial rather than the cooperating to survive. (Nemesis does have a cooperative mode, but I think it's a lot less interesting.) For me, Nemesis reminds me of Alien Resurrection. You have a group of disparate characters that are equipped with some firearms which are pursing their own goals with a bunch of aliens running around. Lockdown is a more mechanism heavy game that shifts away from the Alien theme. While not a perfect comparison, many people have compared it to the movie Pitch Black. And, I can see how that fits with how much light nerfs the aliens. But, it's kind of like Pitch Black, in a base, where everyone has guns.
Okay, follow-up question then for everybody recommending the original over Lockdown - aren't there gameplay improvements in Lockdown? Quality of Life stuff that make it more fun and engaging?
i got the standees. for the price there is a lot of game there. also, i got the standees to take up less space on the shelf and on the table. even in hallways i can stack the standees instead of trying to fiddle and fit 4 minis, or more, into a corridor. my understanding is that multiple swarms/groups can occur too and stacking standees will make it easier to differentiate those as well. plus im not paing the minis and grey plastic isnt really a better experience imo. i did add on acrylic tokens. i just think they feel better and make me happy lol i got MD2 all in and never pull it off the shelf because digging through the box to find the right piece of plastic just isnt fun.
I feel that for Massive Darkness 2 - I'm really happy with the insert that I made, holds most everything I want in one box, but I only got the base pledge. (I think I have a video on that if you wanted to see it/if that would help you get it organized to get it to the table)
Some words of awareness to people overall involved in backing boardgames: I also like that they offer an standee version. Imho for me the advantages are: - the sick artwork on the standees is hard to top with a mini paint job (especially one
This is a good video. I backed the first Nemesis all in and exactly like you said I've never touched most of the extra stuff. I've never used Carnomorphs or Voidseeders, I've never played Aftermath. The extra characters in Aftermath are good but I don't think I've ever used them. The main drive for my friends playing Nemesis is the semi-co-op element, all the memorable experiences and the things we remember are when you someone got trapped in a room with the Queen by someone,etc. The Oxygen mechanic here seems like it works thematically, but will probably be broken in terms of gameplay. The lack of gameplay and rulebook is a big red flag.
I can see myself buying this, but I'll wait for the retail because I intend to get the standee version. This will let me wait and hear how the solo mode is, since I'm solo only, and let me find out how big the game is, as my table is a 33" square card table, and in a quick scan of the page and a check of the mat, I found no dimensions. Seriously, no dimensions for the mat?
I don’t know if you’ve played the original or Lockdown solo, but they’re just OK, and sometimes not even OK, but pretty lame. I only play them solo before I have to teach it, so the rules are fresh in my head again. The best parts of this game are playing with hidden objectives and what happens because of that. Taking that away makes it a game with nothing special, and you can get much better solo games for the $.
@@timparks9833 100% - What makes the game stand out are the player interactions and hidden objectives. When you take that away, it's a lesser experience.
@@timparks9833 I haven't played them, so thanks for the insights. I have heard this and so haven't even been interested in the previous versions. It's people reporting that there seems to not be the same sort of treachery in this version that makes me think there's a possibility they'll have tried to make it interesting in other ways
I was half listening when I started your video... Your what "She said joke" came in so fast and muttered quickly that I almost missed it. I couldn't stop laughing out loud... well played sir, well played.
Such a good video. Your point about most extras being minimal even for a fan of the games is so spot on. I love nemesis original and the theme of the ship...I don't have that power fantasy of Aliens gun blasting...but if it is a meatier zombicide, has good tactics and twists...I could love Retaliation. Need to pay attention and rewatch the playthroughs. They were having fun but I'm still waiting to be sucked in. STALKER put me off but Retaliation seems to have good bones at least, if the O2 etc is good stressful and not annoying. I like playmats, but this one is too Matrixy. I think a space themed general one would be the better direction, but idk if im finding it yet...not like there's a rush.
I wish there had been a Standee version of the first game. I already had all the Aliens from the Prodos AvP game, which stand in almost perfectly for the Intruders.
i definitely agree with you all that cool extra stuff, is completely unnesscary for most people. unless you are a super fan and have a group of friends who come over a lot of the time to play then go ahead and get it to make the experience more immersive (at least as immersive as board games can get). i still want it because it sounds more on the coop side vs semi coop side. my friends and I prefer working together and not have to worry about back stabbing, especially if they were still learning the game. We tried the semi coop but no one likes screwing over someone else. I do see the appeal of semi coop but it feels so much better when we all succeed at the end or at least help get one player to survive at the end. You make a lot of great reasons for people to keep in mind. However I'm sure most of us are still getting this despite that.
I really just want the minis to paint. I have a hard time backing more of the game, since I don’t feel like the game needs an upgrade. The semi-coop already makes it feel like a different game every time I play, so I don’t really need a different game. I love painting these minis though, and I’m tempted to back just for them. Whoever sculpts these knows how to sculpt for a painter.
Between this and DCEASED, my wallet is crying. I can't believe they've added all the things available in the previous campaigns for such a great price point. I am literally tempted to buy one of the previous versions even though I already have the OG game. The prices are incredible - either of the older games + its stretch goals together are cheaper than a base game on its own in retail in my country. And that's with added shipping and VAT. I could literally sell the game I own for the price of a pledge, if not more, to cover the same version + addons for it. I am just not sure whether I want to start flipping games for profit, it kind of defeats the entire purpose of the hobby. What are your thoughts?
I have two videos on board game speculation and reselling if you want my full thoughts on it all. If you can sell it to get extra here, you could potentially justify that by allowing someone to have the game earlier. For me, I think selling is fine, but I try and not over do it or personally purchase things with the intent of selling them down the line, because I agree it feels a bit slimey. But getting the upgrades for your game is also an option - chances are if you sell it you're dealing with someone who that extra cost is worth it to them having it now or they could just do the same and order it from this campaign
Probably not, I covered it again with stretch goals in an episode of crowdfunding countdown when it was nearing its end of funding, so there's a breakdown of which expansions I would recommend in there if you haven't seen it.
i only need one reason for not backing it: Shiping/VAT. i will get the game from a retailer in 2 years MAYBE. i have nemesis and lockdown and that is already a lot of aliens to play with. if im feed up in 2 years and want some new aliens to kill i may get the game way cheaper from a local retailer. and i also dont like to pay 2 years in advance for a game i may or may not get. with all the kickstarter hustle lately im not so eager to find out.
Outside of a handful of previewers, no one has played Stalker. But, you're basically comparing a stealth, co-operative game to a run-and-gun, semi-cooperative game. I think which is better will depend on what style of game you want play.
I'm the wrong person to answer this question because I don't sleeve my games. I personally don't think any of the smaller cards would get used enough to warrant it, but I know people are picky about their sleeves. You could do it for the larger player cards if you wanted but I've never found the desire to sleeve any of it
I actually actually like smaller alien minis. The big minis in nemesis look great but feels a bit weird having the characters in a different scale. Dont think ill back because for how much i play just original is enough, i am using this oportunity to get aftermath and untold stories though to broaden my original nemesis experience
Haha I don't see it crossing 1 mill in time but I'll cover it in Crowdfunding Countdown for sure. I own the original FCM and I think that's a way better decision if the gameplay interests you, I think the minis will make it less useable and the base game is still available from their store for 50 percent of the price
I’m in for the sundropped core pledge! I actually really enjoyed the untold stories with my game group. We enjoy storytelling co-op games. I’m not sure about the acrylic add-on pack. I agree about pulling tokens from a bag (love the quacks geek-up bits), but I could just use coin capsules if needed. I probably should learn to paint minis, but that takes a lot of time and possibly can be an expensive hobby on its own. I did consider the standee pledge as I have the first two Nemesis games and could likely use those minis. But that’d make it harder to get to the table. I also considered the playmat, but I can just use my Eclipse playmat which is about the same size and has a sci-fi theme. Thanks for these videos!
Reason 5: Both agree and disagree (gameplay leaning further towards coop than semi-coop): - In comparison with the Original Nemesis, the two objectives a player holds mean they could win with/neutral/without you for both objectives. - Having 1 Global Objective and 1 Personal Objective means that a player (willing to win) wants to win either with/neutral (global objective) or neutral/without you (personal). Therefore, trust uncertainty may be lower for Nemesis : Retaliation. In other words, analysing wether a player is with/without you may be easier. However, players are still free to choose between the two and lie about it until the very end. As for the "loss of interesting features in Objectives", that's a maybe until the full content is unchanged (stretch goals + expansion). Reason 4 : Rather disagree. Major changes to Intruder combat have been made. Particularly, all of the Crew Characters are definitely stronger than in Nemesis 1 and 2. The oxygen mechanism aims to balance that out and add another layer of realism and immersion to the game. Imagine if they were to remove that feature completely, would the game be as challenging and as fun? Ressource management is therefore crucial for survival. Going back to start would be the very last option up your sleeve, and it is highly unlikely for a player to run all the way back to start for Oxygen without triggering any Intruder combat in the process. Reason 3 : I do agree, but half of this statement is specifically oriented towards "Why you shouldn't back Nemesis : Retaliation COLLECTOR'S PLEDGE". However, I do agree that most additional content leans towards aesthetics which speaks of itself : aesthetics. It's up to the customer to decide. The rest of the comments are personal opinions and may/may not apply for everyone. Reason 2 : I do agree, but again comments are mostly personal opinions. Reason 1 : It's a maybe. As mentionned earlier, Nemesis and Nemesis Lockdown are really similar. In comparison, Retaliation has been modified way more than Nemesis and Nemesis Lockdown combined. Is it necessary to possess all three games? Almost definitely not. Reason 0 : I do agree that no rulebook yet is quite dissapointing and may be considered if you are still unsure wether to buy the game or not. It's harder to observe the differences in gameplay without a rulebook.
Question first; Should we get all 3 games, for those that don't have any of it? What can be shared between the 3 different games, if anything? Do people that have the first 2 games play both of them or is one always on the shelf because the other is more their cup of tea? I haven't played or bought Nemesis or Nemesis Lockdown. I've read some people love one or the other, but usually not both. So: #5: I prefer coop and solo games over traitor/pvp games. I wish they made this more of a dungeon crawler/mission oriented in the "Aliens" universe. #4: Survival mechanics are kind of blah. I don't know if I'll like this part of the game either. #3: I love minis. Painting them and seeing them on table. Also prefer neoprene playmats. #2: I love the Alien IP, but I missed the prior campaigns and then retail didn't seem like a good deal. #1: This answered my last question above, sort of...If nothing can be shared between the games, then I'd probably only play "Retailiation."
I would get Retaliation and either Nemesis or Lockdown. Some people prefer Nemesis (it's less fiddly and more thematic) and others prefer Lockdown (because there's more mechanisms to play with). With Nemesis and Lockdown, it's a mish-mash of what's compatible... - Nemesis + Lockdown and I think the Lockdown aliens to be compatible with Nemesis. Some Nemesis heroes are compatible with Lockdown. No Lockdown heroes are compatible with Nemesis. - If you add the Lockdown Stretch Goals, then that makes all the aliens compatible between all the games. It makes all the heroes for Nemesis (including the Aftermath ones) compatible with Lockdown. There is no backwards compatibility for the heroes. However, the cross-compatibility is cludgy. - For some heroes you take their Nemesis deck and swap bits of their equipment. Some you entirely replace their deck. If it's not a character that directly transitions, it's just not worth it. - For the aliens it's a mish-mash. For example, the Lockdown aliens have a half-assed rule to treat the Nemesis ship as always dark. I believe the aliens porting forward to Lockdown (with the Stretch Goals box) all get a new deck to use. AR have indicated that some heroes will be forward compatible into Retaliation. I hope that's as far as they go with the cross-compatibility, because from past experience it doesn't seem to be well thought out or designed. But, they caved to fans to make content compatible with Retaliation. It's quite possible they'll cave to fans again. I play Nemesis 9 out of 10 times over Lockdown. It's a more thematic experience. It's much better aesthetically. Plus, I think the Lockdown version sucks a lot of the tension out of the game with the lights mechanism which makes the game easier. There's some mechanisms I like from Lockdown, and that's about the only reason I keep it. It's likely something I'll be selling though. #5 - I wouldn't get either Nemesis or Lockdown for co-op or solo. It has those modes if you want them. But, I feel like you rob the game of what makes it magic if you do. #4 - It's not survival grind. This isn't Tainted Grail or 7th Continent nonsense. It's more moving around the ship in pursuit of your goal, scavenging what you can to improve your chances, and avoiding combat where possible. The Retaliation O2 is a mechanism that looks a bit more like fiddly, survival nonsense. #3 - Nemesis has really good minis. Lockdown has stupid looking minis. Retaliation has OK looking minis. The softer plastic Awaken Realms uses for their games plus the reduction in alien size could also result in the Retaliation minis looking less good. #2 - Nemesis is very on brand with the Aliens IP. Carnomorphs are kind of The Thing-ish. Voidseeders are more the typical Grey aliens. Lockdown I guess is Pitch Black, but it's thematically a mess. Retaliation looks like a return to the Aliens IP. #1 So far, there's very little that's cross-compatible.
The biggest reason why I would advise people not to get ANY Nemesis game is one you haven't mentioned in this video. These games have a solid basic rule set (5 cards = up to 2 actions and pay in action points) but an absurdly high administrative element to gameplay. Remember how combat works? No? Check the rulebook. What about the Infection tokens? Check the rulebook. Enemy tokens? Rulebook. Noise tokens, oxygen rules or energy generator, injuries, elevator + movement... always the rulebook. It's fine if you've got someone that has a brain for that in your group but the amount of minutia you have to remember is silly compared to an equally thematic game such as Cthulhu: Death May Die. Don't mistake me, I'm backing it as the downsides are compensated by the story elements of your gameplay session because AR leans on the side of "just go with your feelings on these rules and don't sweat it too much". That's probably why they don't have a rulebook.
That's a good point. The original game also didn't organize the rules well which made it hard to find the right section to answer your question. However, Esoteric Order of Gamers has fantastic player aids for the games. That cuts down the referencing to a quick look at player aid that takes up half a sheet of paper. Additionally, I think there's a lot more replayability to Nemesis over Death May Die. Nemesis has the hidden objectives which make every player's actions questionable. Death May Die has 2 (maybe 3) plays of each scenario before you're done with it. The Elder Gods don't change up the scenarios enough to really make a scenario feel different. And, the bigger downside is that the investigators all feel pretty same-y. There's a lot of variability, but not a lot of variety. And, I'm not saying it's a bad game. It's a great dice-chucker. It's just lacking a strong hook in the gameplay like Nemesis has.
Yeah, rules complexity is a no-go for someone. Also, the situation will be significantly complicated by the fact that between parts the same actions are interpreted in completely opposite ways, such as the rule for rolling for noise in the new version, where you must roll a noise die even if you move into a room with another character, while in the two current parts you don't. I have never seen a walkthrough on RUclips where the players did everything according to the rules.
I don't think "Nemesis Lockdown" is an iteration. It feels more like a more complex variant that tries out the bottom of the barrel of mechanics for a Nemesis game (that's similar to the original). Also, the Lockdown Aliens came out pretty bad. The original is better. Better Aliens, better scenario.
I just sold my original Nemesis base game painted to fund my purchase of a new original copy and retaliation with all the goodies. I love it when publishers offer "old" games in the current game development as a painter.
This is going to be my first nemesis game. Ive looked into the others and have been wanting one but the only thing that has stopped me is the fact that someone can be knocked out in 20-30mins in a 2 hour game. In all the videos thats you've watched do you think this can still be a problem?
yeah, that's a general issue with this game. Once you're out, which can be during the first 30 mins in the game, you have to wait for all other to finish, which can last up to another 3.5 hours.
36:30 I'm also interested in that. If AR ends up making this more boring than the other games, i think i'm just gonna houserule that you can choose between this dice and the ones from the other Nemesis games. I think that might make it more interesting. Still, i'm interested in how this will work and if they make it a little more interesting themselves
I feel like you don't exactly get what an art book is, and who it's for. I don't know about Nemesis specifically (I still have to get into the game, I'll get the original Nemesis when the pledge manager will be active), but an art book done correctly is not a collection of art you've already seen in the thing they reference. Like, an art book for a film is not a series of screen shots of the film. It's the concept art by the art director, the storyboards, the everything that went through the art department and was used to make the film. It's stuff you have NOT seen. For instance, I imagine a Nemesis art book will have the preparatory sketches and the concept artwork for the miniatures, which the sculptors used to create them, and so on. As for the target for such a thing (aside from a fan who wants everything/wants to support the creators more - that's definitely a reason, probably the main reason, why the art book exists to begin with), I'd say it's people who care about artwork, and maybe do artwork themselves, more than gamers per se. Ideally, a Nemesis gamer who also care about artwork. The overlap might not be huge, but I agree that an art book is not something very costly to produce, all the materials I mentioned already exist somewhere in some designer and/or artist's hard disk (although they have to be edited and organized into a print layout), so it's become a low-hanging fruit where production add-ons are concerned. It's wrong to compare it to extra game components, though. An art book is something you want _aside from_ the game, just because you're a fan of the game and/or an art enthusiast, and not to enhance your enjoyment of the game. It's not part of the game, it's _about_ the game. Like, your video is not part of the game, but people who are interested in the game watch it, no?
Never played any of them, I’ll get the trilogy, try all of them out, then keep the one I like most and sell the other two :p still cheaper for me this way than buying them in retail
You're too late Chris! You're too late. I've already backed. And I went collectors edition. I've been waiting for this campaign to jump into Nemesis. And I did it. I went all-in. All the way all-in. Each of your 5 reasons just made me back harder. All I heard was 5 reasons TO back. And how awesome this game is. So good job. Thanks a lot. I love you.
I don’t know if I can resist this one only thing holding me back is that the aliens aren’t cross compatible but I love nemesis and with my size collection I feel like there is room for them all
Always watch the reasons not to buy another game as the shelf is starting to tumble over. But, what I want to stress out that it is crowdfunding (referring to reason 0) where you back the creator by helping them get their product out to the market > you are not buying it (yes, it does feel like a play of words and maybe the meaning has eroded a bit and it feels like you are buying), you are making a pledge to support the creator. Keep it up!
Too late, already backed! My justification is that I do love Nemesis and I play the current 2 iterations on a regular basis. Also, I dropped my £400 Secrets of the Lost Tomb pledge in favour of Retaliation. With the oxygen mechanic, you can carry extra and the robots carry supplies. I can't remember how it worked in Deep Madness and it didn't stay in my collection?
Retaliation seems like a departure from the previous 2 Nemesis games and feels like a Zombicide hybrid with the Nemesis logo. To be fair, I think this was a necessary step to differentiate a third Nemesis game from the other 2 Nemesis games. Retaliation is a great end game for the series even though I probably won't get it myself.
Likely a bunch cheaper in retail after shipping & VAT and I'm fine with standees with this game if I only end up paying like 50 - 60 €. Likely won't need the SGs, I don't know how much f. e. another alien race would add to this experience, but I'll wait and see until they are all revealed if they are worth it.
After some campaigns recently for me, this was an easy decision to skip. I don't have any other Nemesis stuff. I mostly play games solo, and while the solo modes for the past two Nemesis games seem fine, they don't seem great. From watching playthroughs, the games seem to really shine in that semi co-op space. If I had a regular group to play this with, I'd definitely be much more interested. That said, I was pleasantly surprised by the pricing on this. (A big change after seeing the crazy prices for the Food Chain Magnate campaign!) The standee pledge seems like an amazing deal, and the deal for the full trilogy also seems like an amazing deal (so much so that I was starting to get FOMO feelings even though I know that these aren't really the games for me). And lastly - Tamashii is an amazing game!! D: D: D:
Disagree about the prices. Add shipping of 30€ and 20% VAT on top and the retail prices for some of those boxes are essentially identical, just minus the risk and minus the wait time (Oct 2024 for the old stuff). Your calculations are completely off if you compare prices of retail including shipping and including shipping vs gamefound excluding 20% vat and excluding around 20% shipping.
The point number 1 is the main for me. I don't feel it's really different enough and the appeal of Nemesis of having the randomness screw you is really the core - and that's less this game. I'm selling my original Nemesis and keeping only Lockdown. I feel Retaliation might get me down the road in retail, but no reason to rush for it. I prefer full coop in Nemesis, so that's a perk, but even there I'm not convinced it's really aimed at that based on info so far (though legit two player mode is good).
That's crazy that you prefer full co-op but I respect it. For me, the co-op is GREAT for teaching people the game (whether it be regular Nemesis or Lockdown), but doesn't really allow the autonomy that the semi-coop does especially for characters like the Captain who are built to be semi-coop. Semi-coop is when I notice for others that they realize the "training wheels" have come off. They understand the main functions and how objectives work, but now to add the extra layer of tension and independent thinking enriches the experience according to them. Does it pay to be more cooperative in Nemesis? Sure it does at times, but a good betrayal can throw everyone for a loop. Honestly, we lose more because the paranoia got to us about each other's objectives in comparison to the out of control elements like fire, malfunction, and event cards.
@@thehobbyist7275 The primary reason I dislike semicoop is that a game where people are acting all in only self interest feels pretty bad. The game can be brutal and knock someone out entirely with no fault of their own. Coop allows people to stay invested in that even if someone survives it's a victory. You actually do the coordination to achieve goals instead of just giving vague assurances. People actually have reasons to come help when someone is in danger. And yes, aspects of the game are designed for semi coop - but not so much that it feels useless. I'd prefer if they had coop and semi coop decks or cards to swap out. If I see something like that for Retaliation it might convince me for the game, but otherwise I'll stick to Lockdown. For reference, I've got 20 games in overall and only about 3 have been semi coop.
@DumahAtreides I'm merely prodding at your brain here by saying that sure, that may be the case, but I'd argue the game itself can be just as cruel as the people you're playing with where you lose to rng rather than lack of skill. Also, in a lot of co-op games in general, it often has that one person who quarterbacks the entire game because they know the game better than the new players, and semi-coop eliminates that issue. There's always a way to rephrase or prevent this, but semi-coop gives you the option to not listen to the group, which might be advantageous. There's also that one event card that kills everyone or something like that. By no means am I intending on being disrespectful as we both enjoy Nemesis for totally different reasons. I also feel it's not common for everyone to choose the corporate objective... at least not in my group. If you explain the benefits of working together at times, people will generally listen to you (even if someone is out to get you). The way I try to negotiate is that everyone is trying to survive regardless of objective choice. Otherwise, you can't win. There are advantages to traveling together, like being able to trade items and fight with twice as much ammunition between the two of you. There's also preventing noise for characters by setting up other players to move to key areas without rolling for noise. There's always the risk of betrayal, but holding onto an interruption card can make all the difference and rely on a balancing act between group strategy and personal skill. The way I see it is being too paranoid causes everyone to lose the game while not being cautious enough can also cause you to lose. It also makes it to where characters aren't forced to act a certain way or fulfill a specific role. Sure, the scientist is good at weaknesses, and we have a co-op weakness objective, but he's also the best character in base Nemesis with computers for a bunch of other things. I'd also stress the importance of characters like the CEO and psychologist from Aftermath, who are great at checking other players alongside the Captain from base game if you're worried about total blindness of who you can trust. I don't know if you've played Nemesis: Aftermath or with those characters, but they are really unique in that avenue as well as introducing traits for those characters and the Nemesis base game, which make them more dynamic. The Medic greatly increases the chances of survival for the group as a whole. Even in semi-coop, we try our hardest to be either a good Medic to the group or get on the medic's good side because she's that good. In Lockdown especially, I'd argue that the additional layer of deduction in the contingencies makes this balancing act all the more entertaining. As well as the power threshold and mechanics such as computer actions that influence a lot more decisions. You could also have everyone send the signal to verify objectives or alliances if you trust your people enough
I don't know. I mean. I'm not for minis in a non-mini game. ISS Vanguard is a perfect example being narrative and I wish it was ALL standees (or acrylic) to save money. But Retaliation is like a Dungeon Crawl horde type game, where minis are more justified. I hate how the "terrain pack" has minis as well. And I feel if you're going all minis, you have to get minis for the eggs, aircraft, etc. I don't like it's an additional $39. I do wish at least the eggs were with the other aliens. Since it's technically an alien mini. I'm also not a fan that I have to pay an additional $9 for the cooler queen because they wanted a female fatale demon queen in the core game. It does look fun. My only grip is will it get old without enough scenarios. I can easily do something myself for sun drop that's quicker and better.
I'm in the minority that likes OG better than Lockdown. I own the 1st, and I'm going to give this one a shot (while hating myself for doing so, of course), but only 1 will stay. I'm hoping that this one being more action oriented makes up for the lack of dread of the original - that this doesn't end up just feeling like a dungeon crawl. I have Deep Rock Galactic for that. It looks cool. But I could see a world in which it ends up not being worth it. Only one way to find out, I guess.
there is another bad reason , that they will add paid gameplay addons that will make the game more expensive to get. This actually pushed me hard from Stalker as some of them were very expensive and important in the gameplay but the components were only some cards in some of them. Still I'm convinced to get this as I love nemesis but I don't own any game, and the only exception that will make me reconsider is the game lacking a lot of characters (they mentioned one of the addons will be the old characters so you won't have to get the other games). Lack of characters is what made me skip lockdown (even if the characters were a lot better). I'm scared too about the game being less semicoop, but I've read all the objetives and there still a lot of killing your teammates, but maybe being able to choose your objetive when you want will make you betray less overall. About the changes, this game feels more streamlined and give you more control, but the game lacks a lot of mechanics that I usually not used like aliens weakness and crafting..., I feel that the design space for having more characters that are not combat based is more limited because of that.
We LOVE Nemesis Lockdown, and I KNOW this will be an upgrade and will be more action-oriented . For me AW has been knocking out of the park lately. Already pledged the minis edition and got the acrylic upgrade, will see if I upgrade it further, but either way will be amazing. Edit - After watching the video I decided to add the playmat as well , since it`ll be a very nice addition and will be useful, as the "map" won`t be on bare table :D
@@lucadelmagno7007 The fact that there are Ranks and you can issue/ignore orders makes me think there will be betrayals as well, BUT even if it isn`t as much as Lockdown - we do still have it as well
Why is it that even though I searched the last two weeks for just such a video, it only pops up immediately after the campaign ends? I was looking for a reason not to back, wrestling with FOMO but I kept rationalizing the smaller payments of my over $300 pledge. At first I didn't want the extra races but then I liked the aspect of the vampire race being able to move through doors and the other race having a neutral chaotic characteristic where they fight or help. And yes I did add the constructs and terrain and that's where I should've stopped. Well, I guess I could ask for a refund...but I'll waver yet again right before your eyes. I only just recently played the first game and my friend and I had a heck of a time trying to keep up. He said he would sometime like to try it again but it was an overwhelming task even though I'd spent a good amount of time reading the rules and watching videos days ahead. So, here I am punishing myself with more.
My top five reasons for not backing Nemesis Retaliation: ISS Vanguard Tainted Grail - 1&2 Sleeping Gods Etherfields Aeon Trespass: Odyssey All on the way....
I've never played Nemesis, and only learned of the Franchise through Gamefound. This video seems to just address if Retaliation is worth getting if you have one of the previos games. Not what kind of gamers would like Nemesis if they've never played it.
@@patrickblue7024where should I be able to find that on KS and GF then? Think I have never seen it. Only a better described Gameplay on their page than AR does. I did back Dragon Eclipse though, more for a fear of FOMO, since not everything will come in retail in the NL.
For me the most anti-fomo reason not to back is that it looks like a mashup between Zombicide Invader and Shadows of Brimstone, which are both games I like but it does not feel as special or even unique compared to the other iterations of the series, which look more interesting to me gameplay wise.
For me this is a reason to back. I like Nemesis and I often find myself wishing I could play it a bit more like Invader, where I’m just unloading bullets without restraint instead of counting every round. This looks to be something of a move towards that, which is intriguing
I wish they'd have kept the original scaled down player minis. I can understand why they scaled everything down to fit all the mins on the board. But, I think it was a mistake to nerf the scale between aliens and humans to appease a few squeaky wheels.
I haven't played any of the Nemesis game. I love the first 2 Alien films. I'm interested in this because I like co-op games, and I've heard of players dying in the first half hour and game goes on for another 2+ hours. That sucks. Also, if Zack has a video for his sundrop mimic, please add a link!
There is an option to play the aliens for the first that dies, so there is that. But yes, you'll die a lot, but it's like a different movie each time you die and it's so enjoyable.
You've convinced me...not to get Nemesis Retaliation. Instead, after not getting it for years and resisting, I'm just finally going to get the original Nemesis, with many (but not all!) of the bells and whistles. Oops...oh well :P
Wait... I thought you was supposed to convince me not to purchase 😂. 5:50 in and you caused me to back it already 😂... Damn, my unresponsible purchases...
I already did and I have no regrets :D I enjoyed your video. I think if anything you pushed me to be glad I had. Point 1, I kind think it should be more co-op, you are meant to be marines and marines are usually a team with a common goal. Hell look at aliens, the marines were all working together, the traitor was Burke who wasn't a marine at all. Point 2, Oxygen seems an interesting mechanic, don't really have any issue with it. Just another layer of difficulty since it's more co-op. Point 3, I went all In, but really I don't think this is nearly as bad as lockdown which seemed to have buckets of addons. "Terrain Pack, Acrylic Pack, Untold Stories #4, Retaliation Playmat and Nemesis Retaliation Artbook." Where before there was like new packs of aliens and other stuff, this just feels like you are paying a little bit extra to make things 'nicer' fancy terrain and a playmat and nicer tokens to go with your nice models (acrylic tokens are a must have for me). I will say though that for me the artbook is a bit pointless. Point 4 I don't really care about the IP, i just enjoy the game :) if anything my friends and I just call it aliens, we wish they had got the licence. Points 5! Well, I still play them all I feel like the offer different thematic adventures, but yes lockdown and the first one are very similar, which is why i think they are clearly going a bit different with this one.
Lockdown had the least add-ons. Nemesis had a bunch which they added to in the pledge manager. Retaliation has the most from the start. Nemesis had 4/7? - Medic (if you missed day 1), Carnomorphs, Terrain, and Untold Stories #2. They later added Cats, Kings and Artbook. Maybe they added the playmat in the pledge manager too? Lockdown had 1/5 - Playmat. In the pledge manager they added Untold Stories #3, Artbook, Cats, and Kings. Retaliation has 6 - Terrain, Acrylics, Untold Stories #4, Alternate Queen, Artbook, Playmat.
Imagine judging an entire game based on one small detail that you clearly don't know anything about. They actually made the locking connectors more robust specifically to ensure they would last longer
@@OhSixy I have the same opinion - not a fan of the tiles setup and it gives it more of a classic dungeon crawler feel which I personally find unnecessary. I'd prefer differently designed Nemesis spacecrafts that you simply buy in playmat form which have different paths - just like how the original Nemesis board has two backs. If you don't like like jigsaw-esque nature of this, then looking at how they made the locking aspect durable wouldn't suddenly make this a fun experience.
fair enough! I didn't back the game because its insanely expensive and players can be eliminated very early, and be forced to sit and do nothing for several hours. no thanks@@pjaw8226
I prefer zombicide invader darkside. Better action, loot, level up skills, various types of monsters, movie characters you can play, Quicker game. Worth checking out all, before you guys commit
Im feeling that number 0, been searching for hours. Theres a prototype rulebook in Tabletop Simulator but it feels like alpha vs what Im assuming is a beta that youtubers might have
I have the first two and was TOTALLY NOT getting this. But the value, man. Shipping to Canada is ... reasonable?! (wha..?) and the price of the minis version is decent. Really really hard to say no. Damn - I'm not doing so good on reducing my board game purchases.
I have everything for Nemesis and lockdown....I've never played an expansion for Nemesis or even started Lockdown😂. Naturally I'll be all in on this and not playing 90% of the content on offer and buying expensive storage solutions😱
Hey Chris, did you have a look at Kelp yet? I am not sure it will reach the Million $ mark, but it's getting closer. I watched some gameplay and am really intrigued by it, so a 5 reason I should not back would definitely help!
If you prefer Alien to Aliens, yeah, you shouldn't back this one, you can just buy Nemesis retail. As for me, I already got Nemesis, have no plans to get Lockdown, but will get probably get a retail version of Retaliation. (I think Alien 3 is subpar, Aliens is great and Alien is the best of the franchise).
The Michael Burry of the board game industry strikes again! Thank you for keeping me away from Retaliation, and for saving me a great amount of money with this video.
5 reasons to disregard everything said in this video.
1. It’s Nemesis
2. If you don’t own any Nemesis you need to own some Nemesis
3. If you already own Nemesis you simply need more Nemesis
4. Your grandma, aunt, uncle and dog need to own a copy of Nemesis
5. If you do nothing but look at the box cover of your copy you got your moneys worth because it’s Nemesis.
You missed the point of the video.
NEHHHHH!MAHHHHHH!SEZZZZZZZZ!!!!
If you like this kind of game you should try arkham horror JCE. Next step ;) I'm doing the reverse way myself :p
Shame the website no longer allows pledges - does anyone know why?
The campaign ended earlier this month so no more pledges until the Pledge Manager opens up. The PM should open within about 3 months to where late pledges can be made. So check back in with Gamefound around March next year and you should be able to make a late pledge. @@olumarkfatungase7556
The worst thing about semi-co-op games is when you are playing solo, and still get surprised by a betrayal.
AHAHHAHHAAHAHA
"Curse my sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
5 reasons not to back… spends first 10 minutes convincing me to back 😂
Haha you and me both!
Honestly it was annoying because I wanted to hear the reasons, instead it's a sales pitch. But the rest of the video was great with unique reasons.
@@rogadip I don't ever think it's fair to just dump on a game without providing the reasons why someone is excited, and I'm excited about this game so I would be being disingenuous if I just made a video for the sole purpose of being contrary.
LMAO
Regarding oxygen, I saw a very cool proposal to change the way this mechanic works, in the comments on Gamefound - replace the death of a character (when the oxygen runs out) with an infection card, possibly with a serious wound, which is thematically more justified, since there is air at the base, but it is infected.
Oxygen is there to balance out the secure corridors. Securing is super powerful and most of the plays I'm seeing are a bit easy so far, with not that many aliens. So its to put some kind of pressure to get tanks or the oxygen turned on. Otherwise players will take their time and secure everything and then games get quite easy and samey. Overall, I think the game needs more aliens out- the tension in the playthroughs so far are quite light, with several just steam rolling the queen, uncovering the objective, and then heading out.
In consideration of your 5 reasons, maybe this is a branch from the Nemesis tree for newcomers;
5. Too much coop - I could see people coming from the older Nemesis games might not like that, I'm coming from Zombicide :P
4. Oxygen management - My immediate thought was to ignore it, anything oxygen related, redraw.
When playing Zombicide, we'd add our own modifiers to keep things interesting, maybe we don't want to play with the Orc Horde or maybe we add in Murder of Crows or introduce animal companions. My favorite was finding a bottle of water and canned food, they only give 1xp if discarded, instead we would combine them to restore 1hp
3. Extras - I don't own any previous Nemesis but played a couple rounds of the first game and plan on painting these bad bois, current hyper-focus. Didn't get the Sundrop, it'd be another $75 AUD that'll take a few minutes to do.
2. Why Retaliation - Huge fan of Riddley Scott's Aliens, Nemesis reminded me of Alien (sneak gameplay), Lockdown reminded me of Alien 3 (never played it, but seemed like a similar playstyle but in a building), Retaliation looks like Aliens. Game over man, game over! - 10/10 movie
1. Does not apply to me as it's my first Nemesis game with only a couple rounds of the OG in the last 3 years.
Great video, I enjoyed the insight and comparisons
Great video. Thanks. I've pretty much found a way to avoid FOMO in the last year - which is not easy - but lately I have been able to pull myself away from it. Trust me, it can be done and you may not even notice what you are lacking after a few months... (To be honest, it takes so long for crowdsourcing products to arrive, I generally forget what was in the original campaign long before the game arrives anyway.) I've learned that it's worse to have a shelf of shame after purchasing bloat that never gets played rather than regretting what I could have gotten.) FYI, I have all-in's on Nemesis AND Lockdown (minus all the alternative sculpts and cats which are ridiculously not needed.)
I am heavily leaning toward either not getting Retaliation at all, or most probably getting the Standee basic version which is a great price for all the game content it offers. I may not even use the standees in that I have many mini alien races from the previous 2 games (how many races do I have already?) and tons of mini characters that can substitute onto the boardgame for that full visual impact. (Does it REALLY matter if I use the new Queen in Retaliation or just the Intruder Queen and her brood ... after all, it is the cards that drive the plastic around.) So, just the standee version driven by all the plastic and terrain I already own should be more than enough for my personal tastes.
For me its always the same reasons and do back 2 games per year of 30ish I want to back:
- do I want to spend money for something I get in 18+ months?
- do I want to get so much material? I feel burdened by possession
- Will I play it 10+ times? (There are so few games where I did, and only 2 were from crowdfunding.
- Is it a better thing than the game I didnt back 1 month ago, or is it because i didnt get the other game?
- Is it gonna be fiddly or a lot of reading?
Ok. Fine. I hear you loud and clear. Upgraded to the mini pledge.
(Thanks for the video, I’m excited for this one)
Awesome video. Convinced me what I needed and what I actually just wanted.
Went all in sundrop 🤦🏼♂️
Too late my friend, I already got Collectors pledge 😅 On top of that I purchased Aftermath and Medic too! I love original Nemesis and I can't wait to play it with new characters! Also those doors from terrain pack will be used for original Nemesis too 😊
Twinsies
I did not even like the first two and yet for some weird reason this one was calling to me, something about this one feels different and fresh ... the exploration looked intriguing and I am a sucker for tile exploration in board games ... so yeah despite all the logic and past experiences telling me not to back it... I also went for a collector pledge!
You bring up some really good points here. If we're being honest, I'm still gonna order the game anyway, but some parts of the campaign itself did kind of rub me the wrong way. Specifically, the acrylic pack should not have been a separate purchase imo.
Or they should've at least made it a part of the Special edition stretch goal.
From what I've seen thus far (they still haven't revealed day 7 stretch goal yet), all these add-ons (acrylic pack, terrain pack) could've easily made a part of the stretch goal. I don't mind giving them a few extra bucks, you can tell they've done a pretty solid job, but I gotta admit that it does feel like a last-minute cash grab. Just yesterday (day 5 goal was released) they revealed this space cat cube to be a part of the stretch goal, along with some malfunction tokens. Completely irrelevant to the game imo.
And you're right, most of the time you won't even play the extra races. I played the fungi race once I think, didn't really do much and haven't touched them since. Total waste of space. If it weren't for the doors and the rover mini, as well as the comic book, I never would've purchased it in the first place.
Speaking of minis, there's this thing they do with the queen mini that almost feels...dare I say, intentional. Apart from the original iteration, which was dope, all the Queen minis are designed in a way that you want them to be replaced by the alternate version. They did it in lockdown, and now they do it again. It's not a big deal and, like I said, I'll still get it anyway, I just wish they wouldn't make you pay for all these things that could've been handled differently to achieve greater customer satisfaction in the long run. I mean, I get where it's coming from, at the end of the day they do this for the coins, it's just that this type of marketing always gives the icky feeling.
This is a great video. The Terrain pack for original Nemesis is like $60, just for some minis of things like doors and corpses.
For $60, you can get some really great entire board games! It's good to be reminded to think about value.
I have Nemesis and it does what I want. I don't feel compelled to get Lockdown or Annihilation and use more shelf space, and I definitely can't be convinced to invest in a game I won't see for 2 years.
I'm glad AR decided to increase the size of the player characters back to 28mm. We also use to mini's in other games and it would look silly otherwise. I also paint them and going smaller makes it a bit to hard to paint them
The scale of the Intruders are not a problem. I die meet the AR staff at SPIEL in Essen this year and when they explained the gameplay I was hooked again and I could be Zack's brother because I have every Nemesis product myself
tbh, the original intruder minis were way big. They were already scary enough, there was no need to make them as big but whatever. I'm just glad they listened to reason and didn't stick with the smaller minis of the main characters. That would've made the game incompatible with the previous iterations.
Here's my actual thoughts: I haven't played either prior Nemesis game but have definitely heard all of the hype. The thing that excited me the most was people saying it was the "best Alien game ever made" whereas this one seems like like Aliens than Alien. And I'm more interested in a game where I have to cooperate with friends to run in terror and complete tasks and escape than a game where we all run in guns blazing and blow up aliens. Should I just get Lockdown instead?
That definitely sounds more like Lockdown to me, that would be a good place to start for sure.
Nemesis 1 has a theme that is more Alien than Lockdown
Nemesis (original) is the closest to the Alien theme. The crew are better equipped than in Alien, and they're all attempting to accomplish their own goals. Working together is usually because it's mutually beneficial rather than the cooperating to survive. (Nemesis does have a cooperative mode, but I think it's a lot less interesting.)
For me, Nemesis reminds me of Alien Resurrection. You have a group of disparate characters that are equipped with some firearms which are pursing their own goals with a bunch of aliens running around.
Lockdown is a more mechanism heavy game that shifts away from the Alien theme. While not a perfect comparison, many people have compared it to the movie Pitch Black. And, I can see how that fits with how much light nerfs the aliens. But, it's kind of like Pitch Black, in a base, where everyone has guns.
Go for original. I prefer that one as a solo/pure coop than lockdown.
Okay, follow-up question then for everybody recommending the original over Lockdown - aren't there gameplay improvements in Lockdown? Quality of Life stuff that make it more fun and engaging?
i got the standees. for the price there is a lot of game there. also, i got the standees to take up less space on the shelf and on the table. even in hallways i can stack the standees instead of trying to fiddle and fit 4 minis, or more, into a corridor. my understanding is that multiple swarms/groups can occur too and stacking standees will make it easier to differentiate those as well. plus im not paing the minis and grey plastic isnt really a better experience imo. i did add on acrylic tokens. i just think they feel better and make me happy lol
i got MD2 all in and never pull it off the shelf because digging through the box to find the right piece of plastic just isnt fun.
I feel that for Massive Darkness 2 - I'm really happy with the insert that I made, holds most everything I want in one box, but I only got the base pledge. (I think I have a video on that if you wanted to see it/if that would help you get it organized to get it to the table)
Board game youtubers always forget that there's a large contingent of miniature painters out here.
Literally any other awaken realms game is better to paint. Their models are top notch but I would by far recommend anything else.
They don't consider painting those models. That is why sundrop is a thing.
I like this format of kickstarter discussion btw. Just subscribed!
Thought about it briefly. I feel I need to KNOW someone that owns Nemesis but not actually own it myself. Sort of like a boat and a pool 🤣😂.
Some words of awareness to people overall involved in backing boardgames:
I also like that they offer an standee version. Imho for me the advantages are:
- the sick artwork on the standees is hard to top with a mini paint job (especially one
This is a good video. I backed the first Nemesis all in and exactly like you said I've never touched most of the extra stuff. I've never used Carnomorphs or Voidseeders, I've never played Aftermath. The extra characters in Aftermath are good but I don't think I've ever used them. The main drive for my friends playing Nemesis is the semi-co-op element, all the memorable experiences and the things we remember are when you someone got trapped in a room with the Queen by someone,etc.
The Oxygen mechanic here seems like it works thematically, but will probably be broken in terms of gameplay. The lack of gameplay and rulebook is a big red flag.
I can see myself buying this, but I'll wait for the retail because I intend to get the standee version. This will let me wait and hear how the solo mode is, since I'm solo only, and let me find out how big the game is, as my table is a 33" square card table, and in a quick scan of the page and a check of the mat, I found no dimensions. Seriously, no dimensions for the mat?
I don’t know if you’ve played the original or Lockdown solo, but they’re just OK, and sometimes not even OK, but pretty lame. I only play them solo before I have to teach it, so the rules are fresh in my head again.
The best parts of this game are playing with hidden objectives and what happens because of that. Taking that away makes it a game with nothing special, and you can get much better solo games for the $.
@@timparks9833 100% - What makes the game stand out are the player interactions and hidden objectives. When you take that away, it's a lesser experience.
@@timparks9833 I haven't played them, so thanks for the insights. I have heard this and so haven't even been interested in the previous versions. It's people reporting that there seems to not be the same sort of treachery in this version that makes me think there's a possibility they'll have tried to make it interesting in other ways
I was half listening when I started your video... Your what "She said joke" came in so fast and muttered quickly that I almost missed it. I couldn't stop laughing out loud... well played sir, well played.
Such a good video. Your point about most extras being minimal even for a fan of the games is so spot on. I love nemesis original and the theme of the ship...I don't have that power fantasy of Aliens gun blasting...but if it is a meatier zombicide, has good tactics and twists...I could love Retaliation. Need to pay attention and rewatch the playthroughs. They were having fun but I'm still waiting to be sucked in. STALKER put me off but Retaliation seems to have good bones at least, if the O2 etc is good stressful and not annoying.
I like playmats, but this one is too Matrixy. I think a space themed general one would be the better direction, but idk if im finding it yet...not like there's a rush.
I'm so excited that they made the aliens smaller. I was going to get the standee version but reasonable sized minis are just too nice.
I wish there had been a Standee version of the first game. I already had all the Aliens from the Prodos AvP game, which stand in almost perfectly for the Intruders.
i definitely agree with you all that cool extra stuff, is completely unnesscary for most people. unless you are a super fan and have a group of friends who come over a lot of the time to play then go ahead and get it to make the experience more immersive (at least as immersive as board games can get). i still want it because it sounds more on the coop side vs semi coop side. my friends and I prefer working together and not have to worry about back stabbing, especially if they were still learning the game. We tried the semi coop but no one likes screwing over someone else. I do see the appeal of semi coop but it feels so much better when we all succeed at the end or at least help get one player to survive at the end. You make a lot of great reasons for people to keep in mind. However I'm sure most of us are still getting this despite that.
I really just want the minis to paint. I have a hard time backing more of the game, since I don’t feel like the game needs an upgrade. The semi-coop already makes it feel like a different game every time I play, so I don’t really need a different game.
I love painting these minis though, and I’m tempted to back just for them. Whoever sculpts these knows how to sculpt for a painter.
Awaken Realms started out as a small mini painting business. Amazing minis that are fun to paint have a place close to their hearts and it shows.
Between this and DCEASED, my wallet is crying. I can't believe they've added all the things available in the previous campaigns for such a great price point. I am literally tempted to buy one of the previous versions even though I already have the OG game. The prices are incredible - either of the older games + its stretch goals together are cheaper than a base game on its own in retail in my country. And that's with added shipping and VAT. I could literally sell the game I own for the price of a pledge, if not more, to cover the same version + addons for it. I am just not sure whether I want to start flipping games for profit, it kind of defeats the entire purpose of the hobby. What are your thoughts?
I wish DCeased had been first. I prefer DC, and I feel like i already have enough/too much content with Marvel Zombies.
I have two videos on board game speculation and reselling if you want my full thoughts on it all. If you can sell it to get extra here, you could potentially justify that by allowing someone to have the game earlier. For me, I think selling is fine, but I try and not over do it or personally purchase things with the intent of selling them down the line, because I agree it feels a bit slimey. But getting the upgrades for your game is also an option - chances are if you sell it you're dealing with someone who that extra cost is worth it to them having it now or they could just do the same and order it from this campaign
any chance you can make a follow up to this video now for potential late pledgers?
Probably not, I covered it again with stretch goals in an episode of crowdfunding countdown when it was nearing its end of funding, so there's a breakdown of which expansions I would recommend in there if you haven't seen it.
@@RoomandBoardReviews understood, had to be asked. thanks for that heads up. ill check that out sometime.
i only need one reason for not backing it: Shiping/VAT. i will get the game from a retailer in 2 years MAYBE. i have nemesis and lockdown and that is already a lot of aliens to play with. if im feed up in 2 years and want some new aliens to kill i may get the game way cheaper from a local retailer. and i also dont like to pay 2 years in advance for a game i may or may not get. with all the kickstarter hustle lately im not so eager to find out.
could you do the same video for Food Chain Magnate? i would really want to see that.
It didn't hit it in enough time. Took a look at it though in this morning's video, but recorded before they added the better pledge
How are the minis? saw the one of the first one. They were awefull...
I like the minis in the first one!
How does this compare to Stalker? Is there one better then the other in your opinion?
Outside of a handful of previewers, no one has played Stalker. But, you're basically comparing a stealth, co-operative game to a run-and-gun, semi-cooperative game. I think which is better will depend on what style of game you want play.
Yeah agreed with Vault Boy. This one interests me significantly more than STALKER but I think they're very different in feelings.
I haven't played a nemesis game, are the card sleeves a good idea?
I'm the wrong person to answer this question because I don't sleeve my games. I personally don't think any of the smaller cards would get used enough to warrant it, but I know people are picky about their sleeves. You could do it for the larger player cards if you wanted but I've never found the desire to sleeve any of it
@@RoomandBoardReviews given this answer I think your the right person to answer. I also never sleeve my games, but sometimes I feel guilty about it
I actually actually like smaller alien minis. The big minis in nemesis look great but feels a bit weird having the characters in a different scale.
Dont think ill back because for how much i play just original is enough, i am using this oportunity to get aftermath and untold stories though to broaden my original nemesis experience
I NEED an episode of this for Food Chain Magnate. Please don't let me succumb to the FOMO!
Yes! Please read and do this 🙏🏻
Haha I don't see it crossing 1 mill in time but I'll cover it in Crowdfunding Countdown for sure. I own the original FCM and I think that's a way better decision if the gameplay interests you, I think the minis will make it less useable and the base game is still available from their store for 50 percent of the price
I pledged, but i m very scared about the “too much coop and less semi coop and no betrayalness”. Is it this nemesis so “zombicided”?
I’m in for the sundropped core pledge! I actually really enjoyed the untold stories with my game group. We enjoy storytelling co-op games. I’m not sure about the acrylic add-on pack. I agree about pulling tokens from a bag (love the quacks geek-up bits), but I could just use coin capsules if needed.
I probably should learn to paint minis, but that takes a lot of time and possibly can be an expensive hobby on its own.
I did consider the standee pledge as I have the first two Nemesis games and could likely use those minis. But that’d make it harder to get to the table. I also considered the playmat, but I can just use my Eclipse playmat which is about the same size and has a sci-fi theme.
Thanks for these videos!
Reason 5: Both agree and disagree (gameplay leaning further towards coop than semi-coop):
- In comparison with the Original Nemesis, the two objectives a player holds mean they could win with/neutral/without you for both objectives.
- Having 1 Global Objective and 1 Personal Objective means that a player (willing to win) wants to win either with/neutral (global objective) or neutral/without you (personal). Therefore, trust uncertainty may be lower for Nemesis : Retaliation. In other words, analysing wether a player is with/without you may be easier. However, players are still free to choose between the two and lie about it until the very end. As for the "loss of interesting features in Objectives", that's a maybe until the full content is unchanged (stretch goals + expansion).
Reason 4 : Rather disagree.
Major changes to Intruder combat have been made. Particularly, all of the Crew Characters are definitely stronger than in Nemesis 1 and 2. The oxygen mechanism aims to balance that out and add another layer of realism and immersion to the game. Imagine if they were to remove that feature completely, would the game be as challenging and as fun? Ressource management is therefore crucial for survival. Going back to start would be the very last option up your sleeve, and it is highly unlikely for a player to run all the way back to start for Oxygen without triggering any Intruder combat in the process.
Reason 3 : I do agree, but half of this statement is specifically oriented towards "Why you shouldn't back Nemesis : Retaliation COLLECTOR'S PLEDGE". However, I do agree that most additional content leans towards aesthetics which speaks of itself : aesthetics. It's up to the customer to decide. The rest of the comments are personal opinions and may/may not apply for everyone.
Reason 2 : I do agree, but again comments are mostly personal opinions.
Reason 1 : It's a maybe. As mentionned earlier, Nemesis and Nemesis Lockdown are really similar. In comparison, Retaliation has been modified way more than Nemesis and Nemesis Lockdown combined. Is it necessary to possess all three games? Almost definitely not.
Reason 0 : I do agree that no rulebook yet is quite dissapointing and may be considered if you are still unsure wether to buy the game or not. It's harder to observe the differences in gameplay without a rulebook.
100% no rule book = no game.
Question first; Should we get all 3 games, for those that don't have any of it? What can be shared between the 3 different games, if anything? Do people that have the first 2 games play both of them or is one always on the shelf because the other is more their cup of tea?
I haven't played or bought Nemesis or Nemesis Lockdown. I've read some people love one or the other, but usually not both. So:
#5: I prefer coop and solo games over traitor/pvp games. I wish they made this more of a dungeon crawler/mission oriented in the "Aliens" universe.
#4: Survival mechanics are kind of blah. I don't know if I'll like this part of the game either.
#3: I love minis. Painting them and seeing them on table. Also prefer neoprene playmats.
#2: I love the Alien IP, but I missed the prior campaigns and then retail didn't seem like a good deal.
#1: This answered my last question above, sort of...If nothing can be shared between the games, then I'd probably only play "Retailiation."
I would get Retaliation and either Nemesis or Lockdown. Some people prefer Nemesis (it's less fiddly and more thematic) and others prefer Lockdown (because there's more mechanisms to play with).
With Nemesis and Lockdown, it's a mish-mash of what's compatible...
- Nemesis + Lockdown and I think the Lockdown aliens to be compatible with Nemesis. Some Nemesis heroes are compatible with Lockdown. No Lockdown heroes are compatible with Nemesis.
- If you add the Lockdown Stretch Goals, then that makes all the aliens compatible between all the games. It makes all the heroes for Nemesis (including the Aftermath ones) compatible with Lockdown. There is no backwards compatibility for the heroes.
However, the cross-compatibility is cludgy.
- For some heroes you take their Nemesis deck and swap bits of their equipment. Some you entirely replace their deck. If it's not a character that directly transitions, it's just not worth it.
- For the aliens it's a mish-mash. For example, the Lockdown aliens have a half-assed rule to treat the Nemesis ship as always dark. I believe the aliens porting forward to Lockdown (with the Stretch Goals box) all get a new deck to use.
AR have indicated that some heroes will be forward compatible into Retaliation. I hope that's as far as they go with the cross-compatibility, because from past experience it doesn't seem to be well thought out or designed. But, they caved to fans to make content compatible with Retaliation. It's quite possible they'll cave to fans again.
I play Nemesis 9 out of 10 times over Lockdown. It's a more thematic experience. It's much better aesthetically. Plus, I think the Lockdown version sucks a lot of the tension out of the game with the lights mechanism which makes the game easier. There's some mechanisms I like from Lockdown, and that's about the only reason I keep it. It's likely something I'll be selling though.
#5 - I wouldn't get either Nemesis or Lockdown for co-op or solo. It has those modes if you want them. But, I feel like you rob the game of what makes it magic if you do.
#4 - It's not survival grind. This isn't Tainted Grail or 7th Continent nonsense. It's more moving around the ship in pursuit of your goal, scavenging what you can to improve your chances, and avoiding combat where possible. The Retaliation O2 is a mechanism that looks a bit more like fiddly, survival nonsense.
#3 - Nemesis has really good minis. Lockdown has stupid looking minis. Retaliation has OK looking minis. The softer plastic Awaken Realms uses for their games plus the reduction in alien size could also result in the Retaliation minis looking less good.
#2 - Nemesis is very on brand with the Aliens IP. Carnomorphs are kind of The Thing-ish. Voidseeders are more the typical Grey aliens. Lockdown I guess is Pitch Black, but it's thematically a mess. Retaliation looks like a return to the Aliens IP.
#1 So far, there's very little that's cross-compatible.
The biggest reason why I would advise people not to get ANY Nemesis game is one you haven't mentioned in this video. These games have a solid basic rule set (5 cards = up to 2 actions and pay in action points) but an absurdly high administrative element to gameplay.
Remember how combat works? No? Check the rulebook. What about the Infection tokens? Check the rulebook. Enemy tokens? Rulebook. Noise tokens, oxygen rules or energy generator, injuries, elevator + movement... always the rulebook. It's fine if you've got someone that has a brain for that in your group but the amount of minutia you have to remember is silly compared to an equally thematic game such as Cthulhu: Death May Die.
Don't mistake me, I'm backing it as the downsides are compensated by the story elements of your gameplay session because AR leans on the side of "just go with your feelings on these rules and don't sweat it too much". That's probably why they don't have a rulebook.
That's a good point. The original game also didn't organize the rules well which made it hard to find the right section to answer your question. However, Esoteric Order of Gamers has fantastic player aids for the games. That cuts down the referencing to a quick look at player aid that takes up half a sheet of paper.
Additionally, I think there's a lot more replayability to Nemesis over Death May Die. Nemesis has the hidden objectives which make every player's actions questionable. Death May Die has 2 (maybe 3) plays of each scenario before you're done with it. The Elder Gods don't change up the scenarios enough to really make a scenario feel different. And, the bigger downside is that the investigators all feel pretty same-y. There's a lot of variability, but not a lot of variety. And, I'm not saying it's a bad game. It's a great dice-chucker. It's just lacking a strong hook in the gameplay like Nemesis has.
Yeah, rules complexity is a no-go for someone. Also, the situation will be significantly complicated by the fact that between parts the same actions are interpreted in completely opposite ways, such as the rule for rolling for noise in the new version, where you must roll a noise die even if you move into a room with another character, while in the two current parts you don't. I have never seen a walkthrough on RUclips where the players did everything according to the rules.
I don't think "Nemesis Lockdown" is an iteration. It feels more like a more complex variant that tries out the bottom of the barrel of mechanics for a Nemesis game (that's similar to the original). Also, the Lockdown Aliens came out pretty bad.
The original is better. Better Aliens, better scenario.
I just sold my original Nemesis base game painted to fund my purchase of a new original copy and retaliation with all the goodies. I love it when publishers offer "old" games in the current game development as a painter.
This is going to be my first nemesis game. Ive looked into the others and have been wanting one but the only thing that has stopped me is the fact that someone can be knocked out in 20-30mins in a 2 hour game. In all the videos thats you've watched do you think this can still be a problem?
yeah, that's a general issue with this game. Once you're out, which can be during the first 30 mins in the game, you have to wait for all other to finish, which can last up to another 3.5 hours.
36:30 I'm also interested in that. If AR ends up making this more boring than the other games, i think i'm just gonna houserule that you can choose between this dice and the ones from the other Nemesis games. I think that might make it more interesting. Still, i'm interested in how this will work and if they make it a little more interesting themselves
I feel like you don't exactly get what an art book is, and who it's for. I don't know about Nemesis specifically (I still have to get into the game, I'll get the original Nemesis when the pledge manager will be active), but an art book done correctly is not a collection of art you've already seen in the thing they reference. Like, an art book for a film is not a series of screen shots of the film. It's the concept art by the art director, the storyboards, the everything that went through the art department and was used to make the film. It's stuff you have NOT seen. For instance, I imagine a Nemesis art book will have the preparatory sketches and the concept artwork for the miniatures, which the sculptors used to create them, and so on.
As for the target for such a thing (aside from a fan who wants everything/wants to support the creators more - that's definitely a reason, probably the main reason, why the art book exists to begin with), I'd say it's people who care about artwork, and maybe do artwork themselves, more than gamers per se. Ideally, a Nemesis gamer who also care about artwork. The overlap might not be huge, but I agree that an art book is not something very costly to produce, all the materials I mentioned already exist somewhere in some designer and/or artist's hard disk (although they have to be edited and organized into a print layout), so it's become a low-hanging fruit where production add-ons are concerned.
It's wrong to compare it to extra game components, though. An art book is something you want _aside from_ the game, just because you're a fan of the game and/or an art enthusiast, and not to enhance your enjoyment of the game. It's not part of the game, it's _about_ the game. Like, your video is not part of the game, but people who are interested in the game watch it, no?
Never played any of them, I’ll get the trilogy, try all of them out, then keep the one I like most and sell the other two :p still cheaper for me this way than buying them in retail
You're too late Chris! You're too late. I've already backed. And I went collectors edition. I've been waiting for this campaign to jump into Nemesis. And I did it. I went all-in. All the way all-in. Each of your 5 reasons just made me back harder. All I heard was 5 reasons TO back. And how awesome this game is. So good job. Thanks a lot. I love you.
At least you haven't backed twice lol))
I don’t know if I can resist this one only thing holding me back is that the aliens aren’t cross compatible but I love nemesis and with my size collection I feel like there is room for them all
Scale difference kinda turned me off, but I’m also looking for reasons to go for DCeased and TMNT…
Always watch the reasons not to buy another game as the shelf is starting to tumble over. But, what I want to stress out that it is crowdfunding (referring to reason 0) where you back the creator by helping them get their product out to the market > you are not buying it (yes, it does feel like a play of words and maybe the meaning has eroded a bit and it feels like you are buying), you are making a pledge to support the creator.
Keep it up!
Too late, already backed! My justification is that I do love Nemesis and I play the current 2 iterations on a regular basis. Also, I dropped my £400 Secrets of the Lost Tomb pledge in favour of Retaliation.
With the oxygen mechanic, you can carry extra and the robots carry supplies. I can't remember how it worked in Deep Madness and it didn't stay in my collection?
Retaliation seems like a departure from the previous 2 Nemesis games and feels like a Zombicide hybrid with the Nemesis logo. To be fair, I think this was a necessary step to differentiate a third Nemesis game from the other 2 Nemesis games. Retaliation is a great end game for the series even though I probably won't get it myself.
Almost every review I read or watch about Retaliation compared it to how thematically different Alien to Aliens.
You have instead helped convince me to back it. The comment on add-ons (#3) was spot on though. Trilogy pledge here we come.
Likely a bunch cheaper in retail after shipping & VAT and I'm fine with standees with this game if I only end up paying like 50 - 60 €. Likely won't need the SGs, I don't know how much f. e. another alien race would add to this experience, but I'll wait and see until they are all revealed if they are worth it.
No regurts dammit! Do you hear me? NO REGURTS!!! 😂
Don't do it, Chris! You know Zach will just buy it on his own anyway!
After some campaigns recently for me, this was an easy decision to skip. I don't have any other Nemesis stuff. I mostly play games solo, and while the solo modes for the past two Nemesis games seem fine, they don't seem great. From watching playthroughs, the games seem to really shine in that semi co-op space. If I had a regular group to play this with, I'd definitely be much more interested.
That said, I was pleasantly surprised by the pricing on this. (A big change after seeing the crazy prices for the Food Chain Magnate campaign!) The standee pledge seems like an amazing deal, and the deal for the full trilogy also seems like an amazing deal (so much so that I was starting to get FOMO feelings even though I know that these aren't really the games for me).
And lastly - Tamashii is an amazing game!! D: D: D:
Disagree about the prices. Add shipping of 30€ and 20% VAT on top and the retail prices for some of those boxes are essentially identical, just minus the risk and minus the wait time (Oct 2024 for the old stuff). Your calculations are completely off if you compare prices of retail including shipping and including shipping vs gamefound excluding 20% vat and excluding around 20% shipping.
The point number 1 is the main for me. I don't feel it's really different enough and the appeal of Nemesis of having the randomness screw you is really the core - and that's less this game. I'm selling my original Nemesis and keeping only Lockdown. I feel Retaliation might get me down the road in retail, but no reason to rush for it. I prefer full coop in Nemesis, so that's a perk, but even there I'm not convinced it's really aimed at that based on info so far (though legit two player mode is good).
That's crazy that you prefer full co-op but I respect it. For me, the co-op is GREAT for teaching people the game (whether it be regular Nemesis or Lockdown), but doesn't really allow the autonomy that the semi-coop does especially for characters like the Captain who are built to be semi-coop. Semi-coop is when I notice for others that they realize the "training wheels" have come off. They understand the main functions and how objectives work, but now to add the extra layer of tension and independent thinking enriches the experience according to them. Does it pay to be more cooperative in Nemesis? Sure it does at times, but a good betrayal can throw everyone for a loop. Honestly, we lose more because the paranoia got to us about each other's objectives in comparison to the out of control elements like fire, malfunction, and event cards.
@@thehobbyist7275 The primary reason I dislike semicoop is that a game where people are acting all in only self interest feels pretty bad. The game can be brutal and knock someone out entirely with no fault of their own. Coop allows people to stay invested in that even if someone survives it's a victory. You actually do the coordination to achieve goals instead of just giving vague assurances. People actually have reasons to come help when someone is in danger.
And yes, aspects of the game are designed for semi coop - but not so much that it feels useless. I'd prefer if they had coop and semi coop decks or cards to swap out. If I see something like that for Retaliation it might convince me for the game, but otherwise I'll stick to Lockdown. For reference, I've got 20 games in overall and only about 3 have been semi coop.
@DumahAtreides I'm merely prodding at your brain here by saying that sure, that may be the case, but I'd argue the game itself can be just as cruel as the people you're playing with where you lose to rng rather than lack of skill. Also, in a lot of co-op games in general, it often has that one person who quarterbacks the entire game because they know the game better than the new players, and semi-coop eliminates that issue. There's always a way to rephrase or prevent this, but semi-coop gives you the option to not listen to the group, which might be advantageous. There's also that one event card that kills everyone or something like that. By no means am I intending on being disrespectful as we both enjoy Nemesis for totally different reasons.
I also feel it's not common for everyone to choose the corporate objective... at least not in my group. If you explain the benefits of working together at times, people will generally listen to you (even if someone is out to get you). The way I try to negotiate is that everyone is trying to survive regardless of objective choice. Otherwise, you can't win. There are advantages to traveling together, like being able to trade items and fight with twice as much ammunition between the two of you. There's also preventing noise for characters by setting up other players to move to key areas without rolling for noise. There's always the risk of betrayal, but holding onto an interruption card can make all the difference and rely on a balancing act between group strategy and personal skill. The way I see it is being too paranoid causes everyone to lose the game while not being cautious enough can also cause you to lose. It also makes it to where characters aren't forced to act a certain way or fulfill a specific role. Sure, the scientist is good at weaknesses, and we have a co-op weakness objective, but he's also the best character in base Nemesis with computers for a bunch of other things.
I'd also stress the importance of characters like the CEO and psychologist from Aftermath, who are great at checking other players alongside the Captain from base game if you're worried about total blindness of who you can trust. I don't know if you've played Nemesis: Aftermath or with those characters, but they are really unique in that avenue as well as introducing traits for those characters and the Nemesis base game, which make them more dynamic. The Medic greatly increases the chances of survival for the group as a whole. Even in semi-coop, we try our hardest to be either a good Medic to the group or get on the medic's good side because she's that good.
In Lockdown especially, I'd argue that the additional layer of deduction in the contingencies makes this balancing act all the more entertaining. As well as the power threshold and mechanics such as computer actions that influence a lot more decisions. You could also have everyone send the signal to verify objectives or alliances if you trust your people enough
I'll enjoy it regardless, but I do hope they balance/incentive the betrayal and semi coop aspect so that it doesn't turn into a fully coop game.
I don't know. I mean. I'm not for minis in a non-mini game. ISS Vanguard is a perfect example being narrative and I wish it was ALL standees (or acrylic) to save money. But Retaliation is like a Dungeon Crawl horde type game, where minis are more justified. I hate how the "terrain pack" has minis as well. And I feel if you're going all minis, you have to get minis for the eggs, aircraft, etc. I don't like it's an additional $39. I do wish at least the eggs were with the other aliens. Since it's technically an alien mini. I'm also not a fan that I have to pay an additional $9 for the cooler queen because they wanted a female fatale demon queen in the core game. It does look fun. My only grip is will it get old without enough scenarios. I can easily do something myself for sun drop that's quicker and better.
I'm in the minority that likes OG better than Lockdown. I own the 1st, and I'm going to give this one a shot (while hating myself for doing so, of course), but only 1 will stay. I'm hoping that this one being more action oriented makes up for the lack of dread of the original - that this doesn't end up just feeling like a dungeon crawl. I have Deep Rock Galactic for that.
It looks cool. But I could see a world in which it ends up not being worth it. Only one way to find out, I guess.
I am curious after dropping $500 AUD on Retaliation, and it will be glorious. Maybe I leave it boxed up and sell it in 20 years.
there is another bad reason , that they will add paid gameplay addons that will make the game more expensive to get. This actually pushed me hard from Stalker as some of them were very expensive and important in the gameplay but the components were only some cards in some of them.
Still I'm convinced to get this as I love nemesis but I don't own any game, and the only exception that will make me reconsider is the game lacking a lot of characters (they mentioned one of the addons will be the old characters so you won't have to get the other games). Lack of characters is what made me skip lockdown (even if the characters were a lot better). I'm scared too about the game being less semicoop, but I've read all the objetives and there still a lot of killing your teammates, but maybe being able to choose your objetive when you want will make you betray less overall.
About the changes, this game feels more streamlined and give you more control, but the game lacks a lot of mechanics that I usually not used like aliens weakness and crafting..., I feel that the design space for having more characters that are not combat based is more limited because of that.
Instructions unclear i learnt of this franchise & immediately backed for the ultimate Nemesis package (i will eat noodles for the rest of the year)
We LOVE Nemesis Lockdown, and I KNOW this will be an upgrade and will be more action-oriented . For me AW has been knocking out of the park lately.
Already pledged the minis edition and got the acrylic upgrade, will see if I upgrade it further, but either way will be amazing.
Edit - After watching the video I decided to add the playmat as well , since it`ll be a very nice addition and will be useful, as the "map" won`t be on bare table :D
Are you afraid for too much co op and less semi co op? I loved the betrayalness in lockdown, here it seems there is less
@@lucadelmagno7007 The fact that there are Ranks and you can issue/ignore orders makes me think there will be betrayals as well, BUT even if it isn`t as much as Lockdown - we do still have it as well
Why is it that even though I searched the last two weeks for just such a video, it only pops up immediately after the campaign ends? I was looking for a reason not to back, wrestling with FOMO but I kept rationalizing the smaller payments of my over $300 pledge. At first I didn't want the extra races but then I liked the aspect of the vampire race being able to move through doors and the other race having a neutral chaotic characteristic where they fight or help. And yes I did add the constructs and terrain and that's where I should've stopped. Well, I guess I could ask for a refund...but I'll waver yet again right before your eyes. I only just recently played the first game and my friend and I had a heck of a time trying to keep up. He said he would sometime like to try it again but it was an overwhelming task even though I'd spent a good amount of time reading the rules and watching videos days ahead. So, here I am punishing myself with more.
My top five reasons for not backing Nemesis Retaliation:
ISS Vanguard
Tainted Grail - 1&2
Sleeping Gods
Etherfields
Aeon Trespass: Odyssey
All on the way....
Haha yeah that's a great list, hope you've cleared the shelf space!!
I've never played Nemesis, and only learned of the Franchise through Gamefound. This video seems to just address if Retaliation is worth getting if you have one of the previos games.
Not what kind of gamers would like Nemesis if they've never played it.
AR is notorious for not releasing their rule books during campaigns! It’s caused me to pass on pledging more than once - and I love their games.
Do others do that? I think I have never seen a rulebook on KS or GF.
@@Sylvaantye Providing a rulebook is the norm for the majority of crowdfunding game campaigns - which is why AR's lack of them stands out so much.
@@patrickblue7024where should I be able to find that on KS and GF then? Think I have never seen it. Only a better described Gameplay on their page than AR does. I did back Dragon Eclipse though, more for a fear of FOMO, since not everything will come in retail in the NL.
For me the most anti-fomo reason not to back is that it looks like a mashup between Zombicide Invader and Shadows of Brimstone, which are both games I like but it does not feel as special or even unique compared to the other iterations of the series, which look more interesting to me gameplay wise.
For me this is a reason to back. I like Nemesis and I often find myself wishing I could play it a bit more like Invader, where I’m just unloading bullets without restraint instead of counting every round. This looks to be something of a move towards that, which is intriguing
I love the smaller sized minis as I find the OG minis hog the board but agree they should have put a scale comparison to other editions
I wish they'd have kept the original scaled down player minis. I can understand why they scaled everything down to fit all the mins on the board. But, I think it was a mistake to nerf the scale between aliens and humans to appease a few squeaky wheels.
I literally backed it halfway through the video while watching. 😂😂😂
I haven't played any of the Nemesis game. I love the first 2 Alien films. I'm interested in this because I like co-op games, and I've heard of players dying in the first half hour and game goes on for another 2+ hours. That sucks. Also, if Zack has a video for his sundrop mimic, please add a link!
It can happen but it is rare. Although I did once have a game end before turn two, after getting some very unlucky fire cards!
There is an option to play the aliens for the first that dies, so there is that. But yes, you'll die a lot, but it's like a different movie each time you die and it's so enjoyable.
You've convinced me...not to get Nemesis Retaliation. Instead, after not getting it for years and resisting, I'm just finally going to get the original Nemesis, with many (but not all!) of the bells and whistles. Oops...oh well :P
I love the « aliens » vibe from james cameron there is in this one.
Nemesis I think is my favorite game, I will back whatever put out as long as it looks like they put in effort
Wait... I thought you was supposed to convince me not to purchase 😂. 5:50 in and you caused me to back it already 😂... Damn, my unresponsible purchases...
I already did and I have no regrets :D
I enjoyed your video.
I think if anything you pushed me to be glad I had.
Point 1, I kind think it should be more co-op, you are meant to be marines and marines are usually a team with a common goal. Hell look at aliens, the marines were all working together, the traitor was Burke who wasn't a marine at all.
Point 2, Oxygen seems an interesting mechanic, don't really have any issue with it. Just another layer of difficulty since it's more co-op.
Point 3, I went all In, but really I don't think this is nearly as bad as lockdown which seemed to have buckets of addons. "Terrain Pack, Acrylic Pack, Untold Stories #4, Retaliation Playmat and Nemesis Retaliation Artbook." Where before there was like new packs of aliens and other stuff, this just feels like you are paying a little bit extra to make things 'nicer' fancy terrain and a playmat and nicer tokens to go with your nice models (acrylic tokens are a must have for me). I will say though that for me the artbook is a bit pointless.
Point 4 I don't really care about the IP, i just enjoy the game :) if anything my friends and I just call it aliens, we wish they had got the licence.
Points 5! Well, I still play them all I feel like the offer different thematic adventures, but yes lockdown and the first one are very similar, which is why i think they are clearly going a bit different with this one.
Lockdown had the least add-ons. Nemesis had a bunch which they added to in the pledge manager. Retaliation has the most from the start.
Nemesis had 4/7? - Medic (if you missed day 1), Carnomorphs, Terrain, and Untold Stories #2. They later added Cats, Kings and Artbook. Maybe they added the playmat in the pledge manager too?
Lockdown had 1/5 - Playmat. In the pledge manager they added Untold Stories #3, Artbook, Cats, and Kings.
Retaliation has 6 - Terrain, Acrylics, Untold Stories #4, Alternate Queen, Artbook, Playmat.
Easy to pass...those interlocking tiles are a no go for me.
Imagine judging an entire game based on one small detail that you clearly don't know anything about. They actually made the locking connectors more robust specifically to ensure they would last longer
@@OhSixy I have the same opinion - not a fan of the tiles setup and it gives it more of a classic dungeon crawler feel which I personally find unnecessary. I'd prefer differently designed Nemesis spacecrafts that you simply buy in playmat form which have different paths - just like how the original Nemesis board has two backs. If you don't like like jigsaw-esque nature of this, then looking at how they made the locking aspect durable wouldn't suddenly make this a fun experience.
fair enough! I didn't back the game because its insanely expensive and players can be eliminated very early, and be forced to sit and do nothing for several hours. no thanks@@pjaw8226
Perfect time to get the trilogy?
I mean, it's not a horrible time. The only problem is waiting until 2025 haha
@@RoomandBoardReviews maybe I'll have cleared space for them by then 😅
Probably the first time ever that a board game was compared to cottage cheese 😅
1. Reason should be nothing is exclusive. Pick it up all later
I prefer zombicide invader darkside. Better action, loot, level up skills, various types of monsters, movie characters you can play, Quicker game.
Worth checking out all, before you guys commit
Christ, I was hoping you would convince me out of it but now I want it even more. I own the first two games and I know I don’t need it. But…
Im feeling that number 0, been searching for hours. Theres a prototype rulebook in Tabletop Simulator but it feels like alpha vs what Im assuming is a beta that youtubers might have
I have the first two and was TOTALLY NOT getting this. But the value, man. Shipping to Canada is ... reasonable?! (wha..?) and the price of the minis version is decent. Really really hard to say no. Damn - I'm not doing so good on reducing my board game purchases.
I have everything for Nemesis and lockdown....I've never played an expansion for Nemesis or even started Lockdown😂. Naturally I'll be all in on this and not playing 90% of the content on offer and buying expensive storage solutions😱
Naturally, it's the only sensible thing to do!
Too late suckers, I'm too far down to back out with anything less than an all-in pledge.
I'd like to see more variety in hero characters. Some of them seem a bit boring so far.
I love Nemesis, and this game should be a Legacy game.. or maybe they can put in the stretch goals some book campaign
Untold Stories #4 is a small campaign book.
Hey Chris, did you have a look at Kelp yet? I am not sure it will reach the Million $ mark, but it's getting closer. I watched some gameplay and am really intrigued by it, so a 5 reason I should not back would definitely help!
It'll be covered in Monday's Crowdfunding Countdown :)
If you prefer Alien to Aliens, yeah, you shouldn't back this one, you can just buy Nemesis retail.
As for me, I already got Nemesis, have no plans to get Lockdown, but will get probably get a retail version of Retaliation. (I think Alien 3 is subpar, Aliens is great and Alien is the best of the franchise).
Would you do dying light board game review ?
Like to hear from you😆😂
A bit too late to do a designated one but I cover it in Monday's upvoming crowdfunding countdown video
Shhhhhh Chris. Just let me buy it
Oh you're gonna get it Zach!
Went collectors pledge with sundrop minis :p
I need all the things! Haha If I'm gonna take up more space on my shelves, I'm gonna make sure it's with amazing games like Nemesis. :)
The Michael Burry of the board game industry strikes again! Thank you for keeping me away from Retaliation, and for saving me a great amount of money with this video.
Imagine doing this Video as soon as possible, and still being to late to save anyone 🥲