Absolutely cover 'Animated', its surprisingly mature and well-written, but I'd suggest you skip 'Prime', its really rather repetitive and dull [mostly due to the crow-barred in kid characters] and because almost no Autobots die, it loses a lot of tension. Take a look at the 2015 RID instead, its at least more fun
+dead WELSH ASSASSIN channel 2 have now one None of that is actually true. As they are all new characters, from Megatron to Omega Supreme. Animated was technically Hasbro's first attempt at rebooting G1, for better or worse. They are not linked in any way beyond that.
If you're looking up Transformers Animated you should also look up its Japanese intro it's pretty dope and they made a Decepticon theme song which is also pretty dope and was both sung by Jam Project the guys who made the One Punch Man intro which you should also watch if hadn't
The first three vehicons general's(Tankor,Trust,and Jetstorm)personalities were opposite to the spark's of the Transformers(Rhinox,Waspinator,and Silverbolt)personalities.
I still find it funny for how all the times Megatron has said “YES” on both Beast Wars and Beast Machines, that his last words on the show as he fell to his death were “NOOOOO!”. That’s some pretty good irony when you think about it.
Imagine how Snake would *react* to his equipment and skillset taken away and replaced with Otacon's. Weirded out, uncomfortable, honestly even a bit whiny about it, possibly. Certainly upset about it. Not unlike Rattrap in Beast Machines!
I actually get Silverbolt's animosity with Cheetor. Remember that late Beast Wars, Silverbolt got leery over Cheetor eyeing Blackarachnia. This seemingly soured their relationship, and it wasn't ever really addressed in Beast Wars, so it's understandable Silverbolt dismisses Cheetor when you combine that and his own personal turmoils.
@@humangirl2122 I'm glad not everyone has been pulled in by the frankly ridiculous idea that the protoforms were babies. The fact that Cheetor is 'the kid' and grows up over time, and the rest came out of the pods adults, has to be the final nail in that coffin, which was already nailed hard by the idea that this is a crew of an exploration ship, and the explicit mentioning of damaged datatrax in every fallen pod.... except Inferno's, who somehow ended up the MOST braindamaged, but.. whatever, shell program shenanigans. They basically yanked the memory card mid-save on that guy. I'm not one to draw from expanded universe material to support a point, but the fact that they universally gave these characters previous cybertronian forms shows that, at least, this was not the normal thing to think back when the show was airing. it was a new idea that came later. I think another part of it is that none of these characters ever discuss the existence of their past lives, but that includes the characters who didn't come out of pods. It simply wasn't a _thing_ in animated shows back then to bother discussing personal backstories, families, etc, beyond passing mentions.
While I can admire this show now more than I could as a kid, something that's always bothered me was the treatment of Waspinator. Not only did they bring him to Cybertron, when he had a perfectly good ending on earth, but they made him into Thrust. And Thrust was cool at first, until like you said the reveal happened. Afterwards, he became a joke for the rest of the series, which was taken to an insane degree in the ending. At the end, Waspinator is transformed into a tiny wasp with Thrust's head. I never liked this, because I felt he never really deserved this fate. I mean, Waspinator's been a joke throughout 90% of the franchise. The thing is, usually when you transform a villain into something diminutive, they deserve it. Waspinator liked being Thrust, because Thrust was cool. He didn't really kill anyone or cause that much damage, yet he ended up with the worst fate out of all the characters. I guess it fits with his character, since he's always getting shit on in some capacity. It just sucks that the ending of BM screwed him over completely.
I always thought that it was wasted potential that Waspinator didn’t defect to the Maximals at the end? Yes, I know, he’s one of the bad guys but is Waspinator himself a bad guy? Not really, given how he is generally too scatterbrained and bumbling to be particularly malicious, and keep in mind that Beast Wars had something of a theme that any bad guy was redeemable as long as they wished to be redeemed. Blackarachnia spent half of other series being a straightforward ambitious, malicious and unscrupulous villain worthy of Megatron himself, and yet she still defected to the good guys. If you went by the first season of BW alone, I doubt you would have ever pegged her as “redeemable” and BW obviously never had very rigid standards on who is “redeemable”. Waspinator constantly lamented about how no one amongst the Predacons ever gave him respect or even cared about him, so it’s not hard to imagine that if some of the nicer Maximals showed him just a tiny bit of kindness, he would follow them back to base like a lost puppy and wouldn’t go away, making them annoyed at first but they would eventually accept him (better have him on their side and deprive Megatron of another solider). You gotta wonder if Waspinator would have gone to the Maximals after quitting the Predacons in the finale if Inferno and Quickstrike hadn’t blown him to bits and the Maximals left Earth immediately after? The again, in Beast Machines, when Blackarachnia herself finds out that Thrust is Waspinator, she just casually mentions how they left him behind on prehistoric Earth like it was nothing? Harsh. And pretty hypocritical coming from her. If they could forgive Dinobot for outright betraying them once and Blackarachnia for being an uncompromised evil bitch that tried to kill them on numerous occasions, surely they could have forgiven the incompetent, bumbling goon who barely ever posed a threat to them. But alas, Waspinator suffered from “selective sympathy”, a trope all too common in most shows, as characters like Dinobot and Blackarachnia were coded as “complex, nuanced characters” while Waspinator was coded as just “dumb, comic relief”, even when the potential for some basic character development was there, especially given how many other works of fiction had the abused comic relief villain lackey defect to the heroes precisely because the big bad and his other followers mistreated them.
@@daliborjovanovic510I agree with the exception the others that defected had the nuance to reflect, change, and grow. Waspinator was never shown to have this depth
Definitely the best review of Beast Machines I think, and I say this as someone who doesn't like it. Unbiased look, concise, no annoying jokes, and there's alot of info only hardcore TF fans would know, it's well done. I personally liked the additions of the VA interviews and the history about fans importing Car Robots toys instead.
Ahh yes Cheetor. The better version of Hotrod/Rodimus Prime. His character growth was actually well earned rather than created just for a new toy. Off topic but can't wait for you to talk about Daemon's Rising. I still remember Daemon stopping Enzo's bullet and my jaw dropping. Oh one thing I can say about Jetstorm....he felt like a Reboot character...like if they gave Mic The TV a gun.
To be fair, Mike the TV did play a warrior in one episode: "Wizards, Warriors, and a Word from Our Sponsor." If he did have Jetstorm's powers though, imagine what he could do against Megabyte. Maybe those powers could be free for only 99.99.99!
Imagine being stuck being Mike the Tv though... like... stuck moving and talking like him. Unable to shut up.... unable to be anything but Mike the Tv. Silverbolt's whole "those are just words" thing makes sense. He had the equivalent of being welded onto Mike the Tv, and unable to scream... for quite some time. Unable to escape... Mike the Tv.
The problem Megatron had with his beast mode was two fold. One being that it was giving him an uncontrollable anger, possibly even from the effect of his own virus (which is why he never is in robot mode outside of the control harness), which only got worse as he was unable to remove it from his body, and his frustration only made the beast mode stronger. And the second, is that he needed rid the beast mode because his plan to use all of the sparks to bond himself to Cybertron required a body (and a planet) completely free of anything organic. I think most of the reason he starts acting like his old self in the last few episodes is because he's about to win, and his cockiness once again got a chance to shine through when got to gloat to Primal before he was about to unleash his plan to become a technological god. (Which didn't go against his BW persona, either, Megatron while preaching about placing the Predacons back into power always selfishly really meant putting himself into power above all else.)
Yea but that’s not a logical continuation of what he was at the end of beast wars. He would have gone into hiding or something to plan a giant attack on the planet
@@sub-zero5433 But he did go into hiding. He arrived some time before the Maximals did to Cybertron, long enough to form a plan to attack the planet with the virus that prevented transformation and shut the inhabitants down into stasis, steal their sparks, and use their discarded bodies to build a giant Vehicon army. Once the Maximals showed up, Megatron had already won.
@@lindyxmjh4589 and how did he manage any of that when it’s been previously established that his own scientific knowledge was limited (which is why he kept tarantulas and skorponok around) and that both the maximals and predacons would have been searching for him?
@@sub-zero5433 Megatron was previously established as being brilliant: both a master planner and a bit of an arrogant genius. His intelligence stats actually put him above just about any Predacon (who he kept around because he needed a crew to help him in his scheme and fight back the Maximals), and even if he's not a specialist of certain things he spent a lot of times in Beast Wars playing the mad scientist himself with various experiments, as well as learning the secrets of the Golden Disc and alien Vok technology. And of course the Maximal elders and the Tripredacus council were searching for him, but they never found him, with the Maximals clueless to his whereabouts and the Predacons last known contact for the council coming from Ravage who not only betrayed the council but was now also dead. So they had no idea when or if Megatron had returned, giving him the element of surprise (to which he certainly took advantage).
@@lindyxmjh4589 how did they not notice him literally falling to the planet’s surface? How did he travel back in time and arrive before the maximals? How did he someone make a virus that can disable the incredibly advanced technology of the futuristic cybertronians? The more you think about the premise for beast machines, the less sense it makes. There’s a reason why the beast wars creators did not work on beast machines, and why the premise was written by someone who knew next to nothing about beast wars.
I kinda have to disagree in regards to Rhinox/Tankor. I personally enjoyed the swerve of him being a villain, which can be argued to his personality/spark becoming corrupted by Megatron's reprogramming into Tankor. As for Silverbolt, you could make the argument that he went from Adam West Batman to Michael Keaton Batman. Silverbolt being freed from his code of chivalry and turned into a psychotic maniac (i.e jetstorm) would leave certain psychological scars if his personality was conscious or had become conscious after his exposure to the organic goop Blackarachnia splashed him with, even if he had no direct control over Jetstorm's actions. But that's just me.
Hmmm, interesting... yea, it could be that he's only acting emo later because he wasn't aware of anything before being awoken the first time. Waspinator and Rhinox were both aware the whole time, but it could have been different for Silverbolt.
Another Idea is that the emoness is a result of being reformated as Jetstorm and having constant access to his memories...honestly I think it would of been kinda cool in a twisted sort of way if Silverbolt came back with Jetstorms personality because of Black Arachnia's desire
Silverbolt is the type of character that would take responsibility for his actions, even if he couldn't control himself. Perhaps he was always aware, but when the techno goop woke him up he became aware to the poi t he felt he should have been able to do something.
Rhinox's betrayal only makes sense to me if his mind was still being afflicted by Megatron's reprogramming like in season one of Beast Wars, I can't personally accept the idea that the Rhinox who risked life and limb to safeguard past, present, & future, as well as his fellow maximals at every turn, would willingly turn to the darkside of his own accord. Again, thats me though.
I always took what Megatron MkIII did to Rhinox, Waspinator and Silverbolt as being akin to rape. Having their bodies move of their own volition, talking in ways they do not want to say--having their bodies move in a sick and twisted version of their original self. There is a point in rape, where the person's body will move against what the person wants to have happen... and... that fucks up how they handle things. Rhinox and Silverbolt end up being really psychologically fucked up from it. Waspinator turns out really really enjoyed it... because... of course Waspinator would enjoy it. Fucking Waspinator.
I found Megatron's change in character is understandable when you take into account that he has been back on Cybertron for a long period of time. Decades, maybe centuries. Who knows how his return was perceived. Especially with his organic mode. Which he seems to be stuck in cause he couldn't just switch out.
Do you guys forget that when he absorbed G1 Megatron's spark in Beast Wars, he also inherited his hatred for Organics as you see in G1, Megatron hated organic life forms (humans)
@@RatedShadowXrd That actually never happened. Megatron acted almost no differently after obtaining his Transmetal 2 form. The only difference was that now he was calling himself "The Dragon", as pointed in the video, showing pride for his beast mode, and he became more vocal about his God complex. Heck, he even pets his dragon head just like he did with his T-Rex head (again, as shown in this video). Also, G1 Megatron developed his hatred for organics after the events of the first 2 seasons of G1 MTMTE (a.k.a. the original Transformers show) and when Beast Wars Megatron fused his spark with G1 Megatron, it was the spark of a Megatron who had yet to encounter any organics and develop a hatred for them. And let's not forget that Optimus Primal fused his spark with Optimus Prime's spark (which was also linked to the Matrix of Leadership by the way) and his personality remained pretty much unchanged.
The whole organics thing never made sense to me since I always assumed their animal alt modes in Beast Wars weren't actually organic at all, just synthetic. The transmetal alt modes I never considered organic either, so Megatron hating having a robotic dragon body made no sense either. Like there were plenty of animal looking Decepticons and Autobots in G1 like Ravage and the Dinobots.
I heard a theory that Rattrap actually faield to awaken Tankor. When waspinator and siverbot were awakened they acted like their old selves but not Rhinox. According to this theory all Rattrap did was give Tankor access to Rhinox's memory tracks and the shell program still active (unlike the organic goo which suppresses the shell program) warped Rhinox's psyche and his spark was still corrupted. He does show remorse when he's in the matrix after all.I doubt this was the writer's intentions but it's what I'm choosing to belive.
This is my thoughts on this as well; Rhinox's memories and intelligence were unlocked, but he was still trapped in the body and programming of Tankor. It's literally Rhinox's re-programming in Beast Wars all over again. Tankor's programming means he still shared Megatron's goals and ideals of a purely mechanical Cybertron, while Rhinox's intelligence leads him to view Megatron as incompetent, and go off on his own to follow his own agenda.
It would have been so awesome if Dinobot 2 with the original Dinobot's soul was saved at the end of Beast Wars and returned to Cybertron with them. Then when he gets infected he would get the original Dinobot's beast mode, and then be reformatted. Also, I think if would be cool if Dinobot didn't change his activation code at the end of Beast Wars, so be the time Beast Machines came around, he was still a Predacon, but still working with the Maximals. That was it shows that the difference between Maximals and Predacons no longer matters. Both are equally hunted by Megatron, who at this point is no longer a Predacon.
It should be noted he canonically had an altercation with his old mob boss, Cryotek, in the time between shows. It's how he got the scar over his left eye, and if I recall correctly, the means to conquer cybertron.
I can't say I agree with Prime. Prime was ok at best, too many episodes felt like nothing really happened, and the final season was a mess. The whole thing just felt overwrought.
Yeah that guy was amazing! lol lots of similarities to 343 guilty spark from Halo, even though he was like 2 years later I think. Still that sort of character, look at how popular 343 became in halo.
Something to remember with Megatron in Beast Machines is that he was not 100% going with the hole "unify every spark on Cybertron" idea just to make peace, but in order to become a god, an idea which he grew more interested in throughout Beast Wars. It's even belived that if he had succeeded in his plans at the end of Beast Machines, he would probably have become like Primus and Unicron. an all powerful transformer god.
I always took it that Rhinox reprogramming into Tankor corrupted his spark and that's why he turned evil rather than Rhinox just going insane for no particular reason.
You did an excellent job with this retrospective; @16:40 really hit the nail on the head for me as far as summarizing my own issues with Beast Machines. Sadly this same failing seems to be repeating itself with certain other franchises as new blood comes in wanting to "make their own mark" and "do things different than the last person" rather than focus on logically progressing and evolving the work in a thoughtful and respectful way being careful to keep the spirit of the piece intact. To be fair, from what you've presented it certainly doesn't seem as though the writers meant to be disrespectful but the end result is the same -- least as far as I'm concerned.
13:34. Yeah, I wish they elaborated upon what sequence of events caused Megs to not only forsake his over the top, Saturday morning baddie persona we all loved but also develop his obsessive disdain towards anything organic. Feel like we missed a pretty interesting slice of Megs character development. The transition from Hammasaurus Rex to a Master Control KO.
Okay, first of all, holy shit my comment got featured! Awesome, glad I made some kind of impact! Second, I'll say this about Silverbolt going all angry: He's not just pissed about what he did as Jetstorm. He mentions on one occasion, if I remember right, that... let's call it the core of his Spark, was AWARE of what he was doing at Jetstorm... and he REVELED in it. He LOVED it, and it's THAT fact that has Silverbolt so disgusted and disturbed. He hates Megatron for doing that to him, and he's angry at himself for what being Jetstorm showed him, that he's not as pure and good as he wants to think he is, that he's just as capable of enjoying the dark and cruel stuff as anyone else when he has reason to toss his morals aside. Also, I strongly suspect that Rhinox went bad because he still had Tankorr's Vehicon programming screwing with his head and perspective. If he'd been properly reformatted, I feel he would've joined the maximals. I don't have much of an explanation for Silverbolt's one-off moment except for maybe that goop suppressed the Vehicon programming allowing Silverbolt to come to the surface - but why he's so true to himself instead of being all dark and broody like later, I got nothing.
Your analysis of Rattrap was fantastic! I had it in the back of my mind the whole time I was watching Beast Machines, so of course I had to give credit. I've had a few people posit that perhaps Silverbolt wasn't aware of being Jetstorm until after Blackarachnia gooped him, with the change in personality occurring between then and when he was reformatted.
@@BullSession It's been a few years now, and Beast Wars stuff is showing up on my feed again, and I watched through these again. Had some thoughts swimming through my head about Silverbolt's character in Beast Machines and how drastically he changed; just posted the following little mini-essay on another video, and realized I should toss it your way (with a couple minor additions), see what you think. --- Personally, I think his original personality shining through when he got briefly splashed was the Vehicon shell program and "Jetstorm" programming and memories just shutting down entirely, leaving Silverbolt to rise to the surface. But, Silverbolt himself hadn't been awake and aware, he didn't know anything about being Jetstorm since the memories were blocked by the organo-goop, so he just flashed back to his old self. But once he reformatted, he retained Jetstorm's memories, since they weren't "shut down" or removed or anything like they were with the goop. The Vehicon programming, the artificial Jetstorm personality removed, all of it - but he kept the memories, and that's the part that haunts Silverbolt. He isn't able to separate his true self from what he did as Jetstorm, and how he behaved and felt. The idea that... *that* might be a part of who he truly is underneath the Shining Knight persona he put up simply destroys him on an emotional level, and shatters that very Knightly persona, leaving him dark, brooding, and with a heavy dose of self-loathing. He's been shown, as far as he can tell, proof that for as noble and heroic as he tries to act, it's all just hiding *that* monster underneath, and he just doesn't believe that it could all be coming from the shell program and the vehicon programming. He's an angry person now because he's angry at who he now perceives himself to be, and so he lashes out at everyone and everything. (There might also be some lingering resentment toward Cheetor making eyes at Blackarachnia toward the end of Beast Wars contributing on that front as well, to be honest) Once all the threat is over and Cybertron is reformatted, Silverbolt may slap on the old corndog tones, but I don't believe for a second that he's magically all better. All that isn't going away any time soon.
I like to think Rhinox was corrupted by the Tankor programming much like when he got programmed to be a Predacon, like they a woke his personality and memories but didn't turn off Tankor's. Also you are going to love Animated and Prime.
Yeah prime and animated are good choices, unfortunately it seems that good shows always get canceled. As for another show you can review: Batman animated theres alot there especially with the design changes in later seasons Justice league and its sequel Samurai jack Invader Zim Or just make up in your mind seasons of reboot that don't exist.
Never botherd watching beast machines because of said criticism. Your review now convinced me to convinced me to give it a shot. Thanks for the review, going to binge it now.
Megatron, rhinox and Optimus represent the three paths. Megatron being the soulless Collective as machine with the other cybertronians mindlessly obeying him. Rhinox representing neutral path of going back to regular Transformers. Optimus representing the polar opposite of Megatron by individualism through organic integration instead of mechanical augmentation. Essentially the Tyrant God ,the Godless and the neutral nurturing passive God.
i feel like prime had a better tone overall, but animated was better on a episode-to-episode plot base. a lot of prime can be summarized by "go collect a bunch of crap before the decepticons do". which isn't terrible, but it does get kind samey to the point where the show even makes fun of the idea in season 3
I haven't seen animated yet but I heard it's very good. Prime was the best show since Beast Wars. I hoped until the very end of it we would get at least a cameo from Optimus Primal and Pred. Megatron (or at least the Dinobots, since they were mentioned once)
Fan theory for why Megatron wants to go through "Unity" During the time skip/time travel shenanigans Megatron showed up after the tech got developed to allow for this union of sparks. When eventually Megatron for one reason or another became part of this test his personality became the highest on the surface of this gestalt intelligence. This isn't fully Megatron, just an intelligence with his lust for power coupled by the purpose of the program to reduce energon usage before they become extinct. It then took over, using transformer bodies with simple AI as drones commanded by modified sparks of those whom Megatron knew had traits that would be useful for one reason or another, limiting their personalities to focus on those traits for better control. Further, the main reason synthesis between organic/technological would be beneficial is that in a well optimized organism it would mean they could survive/multiple in extremely varied fashions. This is vital for a species that previously ran on a limited/hard to obtain resource like Energon. Energon isn't finite but it's natural production is slow, with the plants they allow the biomechanical to have some systems run on energon, and the rest on renewable/faster to grow plant matter (or in the case of plant based transformers they can use the sun directly) I think the whole thing was meant to be an example of how if we find balance with tech/nature we can live a sustainable but ultimately better life with more freedom, and the people who would be against it are those powerful few who have everything with how things are now who are willing to use people's lives as a resource. (absorption of essentially souls as Sparks)
I feel like Rhinox' change of heart also kinda makes sense in a similar way to Rattrap and Cheetor. When he comes back into control of the Tankor body, He gets to see Primal's change from the military leader he followed to a weird spiritual zealot. I doubt that would sit well for the Tech savvy, logical, and kind of old school Rhinox that his best friend and leader has completely shifted away from the original cause towards something so completely different and world altering like the reformating. I'd do the same thing if I was him, honestly.
It would seem a bit contrasting too for Optimus to be against technological ingenuity while that essentially being Rhinox's character. If he had joined Megatron because of that contrast it would have been interesting.
But Rhinox liked being in his organic mode, though. Hell I remembered during the Trigger when the Maximals had to evacuate from their base, the first thing Rhinox did was grab a plant that he kept in his closet and brought it with him
The reason Megatron's personality changed is most likely because he arrived on Cybertron long before Primal and his friends arrived. So possibly many years ahead of them. In that time he started to experiment and create the transformation virus, pick up the stasis locked bodies of the transformers and use them as parts in creating his drone army and remove their sparks, take control over all of Cybertron and rule over it. By the time Primal and his crew came back to Cybertron, Megatron was most likely no longer the same person he was when Primal last saw him.
The best way to put it is: think of how different you were ten years ago... now, put that to the power of ten. Because that is how it ends up scaling up... not just times ten... but to the power of ten. Now... just understand--the version of Megatron Mk III here is a version of Megatron Mk III that is one hundred years older than the one we knew in Beast Wars.
I love that you did this! I always had a place in my heart for anything that continued with the same characters I loved from beast wars, when a show dies, its kinda like losing an entire group of friends, so seeing them all in this desperately hopeless situation, and seeing them continue, it was satisfying. I remember first hearing the premise for the show, in the ads, when Megatron said: "The Beast Wars are over, you lost" I was like, OMG they lost! What a great idea! Cause no show does that, like, ok the bad guy totally wins, what now? it also retro-activly biases beast wars, you can watch it again knowing, omg after all this, they lose. That's so much more interesting! But your right on all accounts, excellent review, and your most right about that chase theme song! lol Thanks for taking the time to make this.
I only have 1 major comment I want to add with regards to Megatron, I felt it was obvious but it might be my own head-cannon but I assumed the reason Megatron was so different was because he might have literally been alone ruling cybertron for something like 100+ years, and being some dramatic/theatrical talker might have not survived intact without anyone to banter with, which is why when he gets stuck in the mini-drone we see the return of "Yes, yes", he finally has someone to talk to (and again my head-cannon) might have missed Primal, the scene/song in Simpsons between Bart and Sideshow Bob "I've grown accustomed to your face." came to my mind after rewatching Beast Machines again.
They mention that it is hard to know how long Megatron was in charge--as time was kind of fucked up, and the calendar stopped being reissued each year. The surprise of them finding Batboy is based upon the notion that they flat out should have not found any... and the notion of one hundred years is given as an estimate... as Megatron hit the planet so hard it broke the calendar. Nobody knows what year it is... is part of why nobody knows how long he was in charge.
Yeah I always wondered how long it was between Megatron arriving, and the Maximals. I suppose Megatron had enough time to make a transformation virus that nobody could stop, and take over and mop up pretty quick. When you want something done right I guess. Still that alone must have been an interesting story.
Ugh... I couldn't stand Armada Energy and Cybertron.... that trilogy was... ugh. Those kids. The Pokémon theme... Unicron taking like 5 or 7 episodes to transform. Autobots trying to so PC and not be destructive etc. I heard a few decent things about the 3rd season. So I tried another episode. And nope just went too slow for me as a 30 something at the time. I wasn't a 4 year old to appreciate that trilogy.
Starscream was one of the few highlights. Instead of a traitor, he was a brave warrior who died trying to warn everyone of Unicron. Of course, the "sequels" ruined his ending, but he was still awesome in Armada.
Not gonna lie, the finale is nicely memorable. Also, gotta love Cheetor's arc, especially with his bookends moments (him saying the first words of BW and the last words of BM AND also his fight with Waspinator, which was the very first fight in BW). Edit: Also, Animated is a must (despite having some unresolved loose ends). Prime's good too, but it feels weak compared to its video game prequels War for Cybertron and Fall of Cybertron.
Cannot argue with that. It also doesn't help that a lot of the audience did not understand what they were attempting to convey... which, just means they failed to convey it effectively.
I can't remember where I heard this theory, but it was one where Megatron's character changes could be explained as the result of him arriving on Cybertron years, if not CENTURIES before the others. Being the sole semi-organic being on the planet may have influenced how the other cybertronians treated him, making it harder for him to gain the supporters he once gathered with ease. Gradual over time he may have grown to despise the beast side of himself, the side he once loved, as it now stood as a wall preventing him from obtaining power... Which is admittedly a whole bunch of fanfiction-y fluff, but the general idea is still somewhat sound.
You'd think. Nothing outright states that he can't, yet he still keeps the form. On that subject though, how DOES one obtain a vehicle mode on Cybertron? Is there a database one draws on in order to obtain it, or do they have the actual vehicles laying around? If it's the former, maybe Megatron couldn't access it in his new form? Ugh. Again, fanfiction-y fluff and speculation; nothing more.
Manly Derp maybe it’s because of the Transmetal wave thing that hit him and the Maximals? Maybe it altered their structure to the point that they can’t naturally change their form to something else anymore, only variations on their current Beast Mode?
He wasn't semi organic though, the beast modes were just their typical outer armor restructuring into a form that resisted Earth's overly strong electromagnetic field and looked like animals. It was still all synthetic/robotic, and the only outside stuff that influenced it was other Transformers (Megatron and Prime) that just strengthened them overall. It just doesn't work with Megatron hating it, it's essentially a blessing from his idol and has nothing that he hates.
Wonderful second half! Waited all week for it! Cant wait to see more Transformers retrospectives! Animated and Prime are so good, I highly recommend both!
I recently rewatched all of Animated and enjoyed every bit of it. I hear a lot that Sari is one of the best human characters in the transformers franchise and I honestly have to agree. That said, I wish they did more with her in the final season.
Megaton from beast war to beast machines was cast back in time dominated the planet and your either a sparkles drone or in his soul trap. When maximal come back he's worried he is at risk of losing everything
Maybe Megatron's darker mood is a result of winning for once. His ambition has made him insane. He's let his new power go to his head. Kinda like Scar. Now that he's King, he feels entitled to do what he wants. He basically thinks he's God now.
Lovely work as always, Bull. Personal thoughts on Beast Machines myself is that, while if you were to take it apart from Beast Wars, it is quite an enjoyable show. The problem is that the constant call backs and the characters themselves put it in your face that, no matter what, this IS a sequel show... and it's obvious to tell the difference between the two.
I have rewatched your Beast machine retrospective three times. Beast machine is one of my favourite series. I know it gets a lot of hate but I really enjoyed the world they built and the character motivations. Thanks for the rewatch
This is the main reason why I can't get into Beast Machines. The characters feel nothing like their old selves (except for Cheetor), and I keep thinking about how the characters from Wars would handle this situation. Optimus pisses me off the most, because despite his lack of episodes focused on him, he's probably my favourite character after Dinobot. I loved that he wasn't the right bot for the job, but he still did his best, both as a commanding officer and as a father figure to his men. And when his friends were dying in the Nemesis duality, he decided "no more deaths," and went to fight Megatron alone. He knew he was probably going to die, and he went anyways, never surrendering so long as there was fight in him. Optimus was a great leader who showed that, even though we may be flawed, we can rise to the occasion and do what needs to be done. Then Beast Machines decided to make him into this spiritual leader who was more than often adverse to fighting Megatron and had to be yelled at by Cheetor. Sometimes he would fight, but more often than not he rambled about the Oracle's doctrain and went about his weird crusade of making the planet organic (didn't he tell Blackarachnia that it wasn't the Maximal way to take away free will and choice from others?). It felt like a massive downgrade for the character and is a major reason why I don't accept the explanation of "character development" for the Beast Machines cast without further explanation. Sure, they are developed from Beast Wars, but that doesn't solve the problem, it just explains it.
Just realized, this show is a Transformers version of Left Behind. Optimus Primal is the Second Coming, Megatron is the Anti-Christ, Cybertron's populace got swept up in a sort've "Robo Rapture", the Maximals are the Tribulation Force rebels, the planet's Technorganic reformatting is Kingdom Come, the Vehicon generals Shell Programs are the Mark Of The Beast. Okay, maybe that last one's a stretch, but you see what I mean. Now I wish Nightscream was voiced by Kirk Cameron. #CrocBirdLover4Life. :P
I don't think Rhinox was badly mishandled. He got home and all his friends wanted to CHANGE what he knew and cared about. With Megatron having a chance to mes with him. plus Rhinox seeing that things were going to be entirely changed from what he wanted if the Maximals won, he wasn't evil as much as just, ready to do whatever he felt was right, and to challenge Megatron.
Just after 12 minutes you say that Rhinox decided to be evil because evil is cooler but I see it as he was corrupted either by Megatron or through becoming Tankor. When he was freed of his body and became a spark, he spoke with Optimus and showed he was remorseful for what he had done and had become clear-headed once more.
Megatron's hatred for the beast mode still makes no sense since it has no organic parts and he could just transform into something else if he wanted. Writers really dropped it with that one
Gonna assume, from memory of watching this as a kid that Megatron, having taken over Cybertron, probably just mellowed out, he didn't have rivals to butt heads with or listen to his monologuing so him just commanding units and conquering and just 'succeeding', one could argue, dulled his creative expressiveness, perhaps? He became more calculative and discarded a lot of the rough edges and flaws, or I guess one could presume he reformatted in his own way to be more of what worked to him and removed all the unnecessary bits that got in the way. In that process, he became sterile but kept the ruthlessness. You could argue this but of course, its not going to be canon or as accepted as what people would've preferred of Season 2 of Beast Wars of menacing but also comical. I just remember hating how it ended where the Bat robot basically became a glass cannon that could one-hit-kill Megatron at his strongest at the very end? Idunno.
I'd love to see you review TFA or TFP. It seems like both were shows that helped draw a lot newcomers into the franchise( I'm kinda one of them), as well as introduce new characters that have become well-known and beloved by fans.
To be fair, in that episode, the first thing Rattrap does when he gets the exosuit is to aim at Megatron and be seconds from pulling the trigger before Megatron sweet talks him in that way he does into holding up his end of the deal. So his plan all along was to get weapons from Megatron, then kill him there and then. As for Megatron's change with honour, I've heard it theorised that he realises that if he had listened to Dinobot II's advice, and not fired the Nemesis fusion cannon on the humans, thus draining it's power for when they got to the Ark, he would have won the Beast Wars there and then. If he had acted with honour, he would have won outright, instead of being defeated. Thus, he now follows an honour code. And look! Now he is, he's won! Cybertron is his. I like this theory, so I choose this as what's happened. Really, we need a series telling the story of what happened between Megatron escaping off the shuttle and his takeover of Cybertron. Show us his character growth.
I'm with ya on the character gripe. Though the conflicts within the show and the general level of darkness and uncertainty to the future really griped me. It didn't feel like a cartoon where I'd know things would return to the status quo by the end of each episode. As a kid it also introduced me to a lot of big ideas and didn't say one or the other was better for which I'm grateful because it asked me to think for myself.
The more i think about it the more this series problems had to do with it being a sequel to beast wars. Had this been a new continuity (or the same continuity with a new cast like it was for G1 to Beast Wars) this show would probably be hated less. Granted it wouldn’t solve every problem and I can still imagine the themes being divisive but not to the extent it is now
As I said in the previous part, I remember liking this series. And I liked the changes done to Megatron. He was funny and sometimes intimidating before, here was intimidating and even scary, like "there's no more time for joking around, I'm going to destroy you". I don't remember how many time pass between his arrival to the planet and the start of the show with the Maximals, maybe he changed there.
I feel I agree strongest that the biggest problem is the re-use of various characters for this series. Like the modern "Teen Titans Go" debacle, the problem is that the writing gets undercut by using the narrative shortcut of using familiar characters for what is otherwise a new series. Rattrap and Silverbolt do get it the worst. Without an open air dor comedy, their smarter sides (loose definition wirh Silverbolt, but go with it) don't come through in the writing which is unfortunate as they were some of the more popular characters from Beast Wars. Thus, the betrayal of these two characters in particular, despite provided reasons, likely just left a bitter taste for returning fans.
"I got a great idea for a theme for a kid's show. It's gonna be all green and environmental." "Yeah, People love the environment. That should work for any show on Earth good idea." "It's Transformers. It's about robots, not people." "Oh. ... Well, actually the current Transformers show is about animals on ancient Earth. If you carry on that show, you can make it about them not damaging Earth. Okay." "It's on Cybertron." "Is this a good plan?"
I never had the chance to watch animated all the way through, but I remember enjoying Prime quite a bit. Looking forward to hearing your review on either of them
I think the idea behind the Vehicon generals is that Megatron installed shell programs in them, with Rhinox turning evil once his memories came back being the result his original and new personalities meshing together. After he dies the show seems to imply he's back to normal. Still this was something that show could have explored better. We do see see Megatron's witty personality come through in this series, but yeah a lot of his characterization feels like he may as well be a different person. Something I did like is that we saw he programed his generals so they would short out if they attacked him. Given the rate his minions turned on him in Beast Wars, this feels like something he would do given how he was shown to be quite paranoid.
I think that Rhinox's former predacon influence from Dark Designs may not have been fully removed but dormant. it probably arose once more when he was turned vehicon
Just want to say, great review. I've enjoyed watching these and getting some behind the scenes info. I will say, Rhinox was my favorite character of Beast Wars and it always bothered me that he turned into a villain. Being controlled is one thing, but when he flat out remembers who he used to be and chooses to betray his former teammates, that's where it hurt for me.
In regards to Beast Machines; I've softened a bit to it over the years, but it's flaws are *JUST* egregious enough that I just can't get into it as a Beast Wars sequel. It was an *INCREDIBLY* bold direction for the franchise, and I respect it for going in the direction it did, but I feel it suffered a lot from being directly tied to Beast Wars. To be honest, I find Prime and Beast Machines are actually fairly comparable; both are shows that are very polarizing. Some people love Prime, some people hate it, others are just ambivalent. Personally, I fall more into the third camp; it's a good show, but it's not *great*; it's not close to Animated and Beast Wars as "best TF show", in my opinion. Animated is almost perfectly like what happened with Beast Wars itself; a show that took a large departure from what was expected and ultimately became a fandom darling in spite of the icy reception it was given initially. It's not for everybody, but Animated is a well-done show.
Both Animated and Prime have their problems, but if you were to ask me what their biggest problems were, it would be they both ended t soon. So I hope that helps you when it comes time to take a look at these shows.
Yeah and don't get me wrong there are some other things there. However I am just heart broken about the stuff we didn't get. For example in season four of Prime the plan was to have it be Wild West Themed and with Maximals as cowboys. And Animated was going to get a episode in their four season in which they would have done a Mirror Universe with a Heroic Megatron and an Evil Optimus. Soooo, you know just some things that would have just been amazing...
Prime did at least get a feature length film to cap off the series, and besides the conspicuous absence of the humans, is quite good. The final lines delivered by Prime are some of the best ever written in the TF franchise.
Honestly I would disagree with you on the movie. I felt that it made Megatron look really, really, really stupid. I mean the show makes it clear that Megatron was a very low class transformers and yet he doesn't know what oppression is like? He sounds like the serial killer from Family guy that finally stabs himself and realizes that it hurts. But you have a right to your own opinion man.
Yes it Prime was really good and it was the show that i wanted after the disaster of Beast Machines. It was stupid to cancel it forthe REALLY stupid RID
The big problem with Megatron's characterization is that we never got an in-depth look at the doizen+ cycles after he landed on Cybertron but before the Maximals showed up. It is clear he had character development off screen, but off-screen character development does not count.
I'm with you, I didn't love those show or hate it. I was in the middle, but the characters weren't as good and the toys were horrible. I watched both TF Animated and Prime, both were great in my opinion.
Something really dark I noticed re-watching the show as an adult is that Nightscream is played like a holocaust survivor. As he is tortured by the guilt and even asks "Why did I survive, I could've saved them!" Very Schindler's list.
I kinda wish Beast Machines would be about Maximals and Megatron joining forces against new enemy who conquered Cybertron. Let's say... it was Maximals whom remained on Cybertron decided to turn the planet into one hive and predacons are remaining force fighting the power. Optimus is forced to set Megatron free so he could bring more bots to battle. However it gets clear Optimus and Megatron have different plan for Cybertron and old and new characters are divided into two new groups; Idealistic and Pragmatic.
While I did like Beast Machines. It felt like mostly Cheetor got the best character development with him taking leadership away from Optimus, and calling him out on his extremism multiple times, and actually being a more competent leader then Optimus. Personally I would love to have Cheetor remain the permanent leader of the team after the events of Forbidden Fruit and actually try to find a balance between technology and nature in contrast to Optimus, and Megatron's extremist beliefs. Essentially have three central characters with their own beliefs Optimus, and Megatron being extremist fanatics with their beliefs of Nature, and Technology respectively being the only thing best for the planet, and Cheetor having the belief that neither pure Nature, or pure Technology is the best thing for the planet but instead the best thing for Cybertron would be a peaceful balance between the two.
I thought it was both awesome (for character depth) and tragic that Jetstorm was Silverbolt. I was horrified that BA turned him back as a kid. I had hoped he would stay or maybe split somehow. I was so upset that even as an adult I hate watching his transformation scene when I revisit the series. Jetstorm was my favorite for how different and odd and hyper aggressive he was. His character design was sleek and completely unexpectedly androgynous for someone so masculine by personality. That he was Silverbolt turned inside out? Brilliant, as was the reveal moment. And then even more brilliant when later, seemingly without meaning to, he lets BA touch his face in a quiet moment btw them. Even tho normally he repeatedly denied wanting anything to do with her. He was and still is fascinating and it's a shame he hasn't shown up in other continuities.
Honestly I'd love it if they'd do a reboot of Beast machines but instead of Megatron being the big bad it was the Quintessons or the tri predicus counsel (since they were Unicron descendants) This could give us the unique interaction of Megatron and the Maximals being forced to join forces, though begrudgingly at first we could see a Megatron character arc where he has to go through a ego death and find himself again, with all his goals and desires destroyed he finds that he must put aside his former desire for glory to ensure a future for Cybertron maybe have him experience his own version of code of Hero
Animated should definitely be next. It was the first time we were introduced to a Cybertron and it’s culture that wasn’t ravaged by war. And the characters go through some fun changes. Though if he does review it, he’ll need the Allspark Almanac book for behind the scenes and what would of came season info for the show.
As much as I love Beast Wars (and I do, a lot), Animated and Prime are, I now find, my two favourite Transformers shows. Animated has so much love for the characters and storylines of previous series whilst still doing its own thing, and Prime is dark and serious and features one of the best depictions of Megatron ever. Maybe I still prefer Beast Wars to Prime though, I need to watch Prime again myself. Loved the toys though! For both those series!
Transformers Prime is actually fantastic. It has dark themes but doesn't delve too deep and still lands with solid jokes. I think Starscreem has a fantastic characterization in the series, due to him being more cunning and devious then ever before making him a huge threat to everyone. Magatron is also interesting with him being a lunatic but still methodical and and terrifying in his logic and tactics. Bumblebee unfortunately gets Bay'ed with not being able to speak but it is much better played out in Prime then in the Bay movies. They also touch on some deep lore plot threads and that just makes me smile on the inside being a fan of any sort of deep lore concepts.
Animated and Prime are amazing. You'll enjoy both. As for other shows, Mainframe's Action Man comes to mind. Just look through the Fox Kids lineup in the 90's and you will find a tone of material.
I feel like Rhoinox was the Ironhide of Best Wars. Not so much in personality but in the fact that they were both the closest friends to their Optimus's, which is another why I hate the fact that Rhoinox became Tankor, it'd be like if Ironhide came back in G1 as a decepticon, it doesn't fit the character in anyway. Loved the video, I was wondering if you would do another retrospective on a transformers show, maybe prime?
![Shadow Raiders [War Planets] Review / Retrospective | Bull Session](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rZsCNqafeEE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Beast Machines [Part One] Review / Retrospective - Bull Session](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gr6qDnuijsY/mqdefault.jpg)
Part 1: ruclips.net/video/gr6qDnuijsY/видео.html
Absolutely cover 'Animated', its surprisingly mature and well-written, but I'd suggest you skip 'Prime', its really rather repetitive and dull [mostly due to the crow-barred in kid characters] and because almost no Autobots die, it loses a lot of tension. Take a look at the 2015 RID instead, its at least more fun
Bull Session check out my sad account. 😂😂😂
+dead WELSH ASSASSIN channel 2 have now one None of that is actually true. As they are all new characters, from Megatron to Omega Supreme. Animated was technically Hasbro's first attempt at rebooting G1, for better or worse. They are not linked in any way beyond that.
That robot wolf appeals to this furry fan, also, Rat Trap's beast mode
If you're looking up Transformers Animated you should also look up its Japanese intro it's pretty dope and they made a Decepticon theme song which is also pretty dope and was both sung by Jam Project the guys who made the One Punch Man intro which you should also watch if hadn't
Megatron making Tankor stupid makes so much sense when you remember what happened last time he turned Rhinox evil.
The first three vehicons general's(Tankor,Trust,and Jetstorm)personalities were opposite to the spark's of the Transformers(Rhinox,Waspinator,and Silverbolt)personalities.
@@humangirl2122 remember the creators weren’t allowed to watch beast wars so they couldn’t do anything
@@humangirl2122Another Beast Machines fan? Please marry me-
@@Storm_Bringer_666 I don't even know you. I also don't know where you live.
@@humangirl2122 Well... i could do just that!.. pls? I'm very desperate-
I still find it funny for how all the times Megatron has said “YES” on both Beast Wars and Beast Machines, that his last words on the show as he fell to his death were “NOOOOO!”. That’s some pretty good irony when you think about it.
And the same joke applies to him at the end of Beast Wars, when he's strapped to the outside of the shuttle as they fly off
Megatron says No a lot too
@@RoninCatholic that instance in beast wars sounds more like a generic scream than a no
Another great book end is Cheetor had the first line of Beast wars and last line of Beast Machines
Rattrap's change can easily be summed up; imagine if solid snake became autcon in a sequel game.
So...about 75% of Metal Gear Solid 2 barring the humor. lol
Imagine how Snake would *react* to his equipment and skillset taken away and replaced with Otacon's. Weirded out, uncomfortable, honestly even a bit whiny about it, possibly. Certainly upset about it. Not unlike Rattrap in Beast Machines!
Ouch
Exactly.
I *believed* in things!
Words! Nothing but air!
Cookies need love like everything does!
for a second i seriouslly thought bull sesion had dubbed those lines
I actually get Silverbolt's animosity with Cheetor. Remember that late Beast Wars, Silverbolt got leery over Cheetor eyeing Blackarachnia. This seemingly soured their relationship, and it wasn't ever really addressed in Beast Wars, so it's understandable Silverbolt dismisses Cheetor when you combine that and his own personal turmoils.
True but cheetor also stopped flirting with Blackarachnia
@Drive Check. No Silverbolt is older then Cheetor.
plus yknow, dogs and cats.
@@humangirl2122 I'm glad not everyone has been pulled in by the frankly ridiculous idea that the protoforms were babies. The fact that Cheetor is 'the kid' and grows up over time, and the rest came out of the pods adults, has to be the final nail in that coffin, which was already nailed hard by the idea that this is a crew of an exploration ship, and the explicit mentioning of damaged datatrax in every fallen pod.... except Inferno's, who somehow ended up the MOST braindamaged, but.. whatever, shell program shenanigans. They basically yanked the memory card mid-save on that guy.
I'm not one to draw from expanded universe material to support a point, but the fact that they universally gave these characters previous cybertronian forms shows that, at least, this was not the normal thing to think back when the show was airing. it was a new idea that came later. I think another part of it is that none of these characters ever discuss the existence of their past lives, but that includes the characters who didn't come out of pods. It simply wasn't a _thing_ in animated shows back then to bother discussing personal backstories, families, etc, beyond passing mentions.
Blackkaracra like cheetor
While I can admire this show now more than I could as a kid, something that's always bothered me was the treatment of Waspinator. Not only did they bring him to Cybertron, when he had a perfectly good ending on earth, but they made him into Thrust. And Thrust was cool at first, until like you said the reveal happened. Afterwards, he became a joke for the rest of the series, which was taken to an insane degree in the ending.
At the end, Waspinator is transformed into a tiny wasp with Thrust's head. I never liked this, because I felt he never really deserved this fate. I mean, Waspinator's been a joke throughout 90% of the franchise. The thing is, usually when you transform a villain into something diminutive, they deserve it. Waspinator liked being Thrust, because Thrust was cool. He didn't really kill anyone or cause that much damage, yet he ended up with the worst fate out of all the characters. I guess it fits with his character, since he's always getting shit on in some capacity. It just sucks that the ending of BM screwed him over completely.
Why universe hate Waspinator?
@@BullSession Waspinator never get what Waspinator waaannnttts!
I always thought that it was wasted potential that Waspinator didn’t defect to the Maximals at the end? Yes, I know, he’s one of the bad guys but is Waspinator himself a bad guy? Not really, given how he is generally too scatterbrained and bumbling to be particularly malicious, and keep in mind that Beast Wars had something of a theme that any bad guy was redeemable as long as they wished to be redeemed. Blackarachnia spent half of other series being a straightforward ambitious, malicious and unscrupulous villain worthy of Megatron himself, and yet she still defected to the good guys. If you went by the first season of BW alone, I doubt you would have ever pegged her as “redeemable” and BW obviously never had very rigid standards on who is “redeemable”. Waspinator constantly lamented about how no one amongst the Predacons ever gave him respect or even cared about him, so it’s not hard to imagine that if some of the nicer Maximals showed him just a tiny bit of kindness, he would follow them back to base like a lost puppy and wouldn’t go away, making them annoyed at first but they would eventually accept him (better have him on their side and deprive Megatron of another solider). You gotta wonder if Waspinator would have gone to the Maximals after quitting the Predacons in the finale if Inferno and Quickstrike hadn’t blown him to bits and the Maximals left Earth immediately after? The again, in Beast Machines, when Blackarachnia herself finds out that Thrust is Waspinator, she just casually mentions how they left him behind on prehistoric Earth like it was nothing? Harsh. And pretty hypocritical coming from her. If they could forgive Dinobot for outright betraying them once and Blackarachnia for being an uncompromised evil bitch that tried to kill them on numerous occasions, surely they could have forgiven the incompetent, bumbling goon who barely ever posed a threat to them. But alas, Waspinator suffered from “selective sympathy”, a trope all too common in most shows, as characters like Dinobot and Blackarachnia were coded as “complex, nuanced characters” while Waspinator was coded as just “dumb, comic relief”, even when the potential for some basic character development was there, especially given how many other works of fiction had the abused comic relief villain lackey defect to the heroes precisely because the big bad and his other followers mistreated them.
I think he becomes Thrustinator at some point
@@daliborjovanovic510I agree with the exception the others that defected had the nuance to reflect, change, and grow. Waspinator was never shown to have this depth
Definitely the best review of Beast Machines I think, and I say this as someone who doesn't like it. Unbiased look, concise, no annoying jokes, and there's alot of info only hardcore TF fans would know, it's well done. I personally liked the additions of the VA interviews and the history about fans importing Car Robots toys instead.
Hardcore since '84.
@@BullSession There was actually A Tankor in Transformers ROTF
Both Transformers Animated and Prime are worth the watch, and could potentially serve well as another Retrospective.
And David Kaye (Beast Megatron) was in both of those.
I second the notion
Ahh yes Cheetor. The better version of Hotrod/Rodimus Prime. His character growth was actually well earned rather than created just for a new toy. Off topic but can't wait for you to talk about Daemon's Rising. I still remember Daemon stopping Enzo's bullet and my jaw dropping. Oh one thing I can say about Jetstorm....he felt like a Reboot character...like if they gave Mic The TV a gun.
Mike the TV + half of Matrix's badassery (only half though) = Jetstorm
To be fair, Mike the TV did play a warrior in one episode: "Wizards, Warriors, and a Word from Our Sponsor." If he did have Jetstorm's powers though, imagine what he could do against Megabyte. Maybe those powers could be free for only 99.99.99!
Imagine being stuck being Mike the Tv though... like... stuck moving and talking like him. Unable to shut up.... unable to be anything but Mike the Tv.
Silverbolt's whole "those are just words" thing makes sense. He had the equivalent of being welded onto Mike the Tv, and unable to scream... for quite some time. Unable to escape... Mike the Tv.
Katrina Payne Poor poor Silverbolt...No wonder he was full of angst.
"like if they gave Mic The TV a gun."
XD
The problem Megatron had with his beast mode was two fold. One being that it was giving him an uncontrollable anger, possibly even from the effect of his own virus (which is why he never is in robot mode outside of the control harness), which only got worse as he was unable to remove it from his body, and his frustration only made the beast mode stronger. And the second, is that he needed rid the beast mode because his plan to use all of the sparks to bond himself to Cybertron required a body (and a planet) completely free of anything organic.
I think most of the reason he starts acting like his old self in the last few episodes is because he's about to win, and his cockiness once again got a chance to shine through when got to gloat to Primal before he was about to unleash his plan to become a technological god. (Which didn't go against his BW persona, either, Megatron while preaching about placing the Predacons back into power always selfishly really meant putting himself into power above all else.)
Yea but that’s not a logical continuation of what he was at the end of beast wars. He would have gone into hiding or something to plan a giant attack on the planet
@@sub-zero5433 But he did go into hiding. He arrived some time before the Maximals did to Cybertron, long enough to form a plan to attack the planet with the virus that prevented transformation and shut the inhabitants down into stasis, steal their sparks, and use their discarded bodies to build a giant Vehicon army. Once the Maximals showed up, Megatron had already won.
@@lindyxmjh4589 and how did he manage any of that when it’s been previously established that his own scientific knowledge was limited (which is why he kept tarantulas and skorponok around) and that both the maximals and predacons would have been searching for him?
@@sub-zero5433 Megatron was previously established as being brilliant: both a master planner and a bit of an arrogant genius. His intelligence stats actually put him above just about any Predacon (who he kept around because he needed a crew to help him in his scheme and fight back the Maximals), and even if he's not a specialist of certain things he spent a lot of times in Beast Wars playing the mad scientist himself with various experiments, as well as learning the secrets of the Golden Disc and alien Vok technology. And of course the Maximal elders and the Tripredacus council were searching for him, but they never found him, with the Maximals clueless to his whereabouts and the Predacons last known contact for the council coming from Ravage who not only betrayed the council but was now also dead. So they had no idea when or if Megatron had returned, giving him the element of surprise (to which he certainly took advantage).
@@lindyxmjh4589 how did they not notice him literally falling to the planet’s surface? How did he travel back in time and arrive before the maximals? How did he someone make a virus that can disable the incredibly advanced technology of the futuristic cybertronians? The more you think about the premise for beast machines, the less sense it makes. There’s a reason why the beast wars creators did not work on beast machines, and why the premise was written by someone who knew next to nothing about beast wars.
I kinda have to disagree in regards to Rhinox/Tankor. I personally enjoyed the swerve of him being a villain, which can be argued to his personality/spark becoming corrupted by Megatron's reprogramming into Tankor.
As for Silverbolt, you could make the argument that he went from Adam West Batman to Michael Keaton Batman. Silverbolt being freed from his code of chivalry and turned into a psychotic maniac (i.e jetstorm) would leave certain psychological scars if his personality was conscious or had become conscious after his exposure to the organic goop Blackarachnia splashed him with, even if he had no direct control over Jetstorm's actions.
But that's just me.
Hmmm, interesting... yea, it could be that he's only acting emo later because he wasn't aware of anything before being awoken the first time. Waspinator and Rhinox were both aware the whole time, but it could have been different for Silverbolt.
Another Idea is that the emoness is a result of being reformated as Jetstorm and having constant access to his memories...honestly I think it would of been kinda cool in a twisted sort of way if Silverbolt came back with Jetstorms personality because of Black Arachnia's desire
Silverbolt is the type of character that would take responsibility for his actions, even if he couldn't control himself. Perhaps he was always aware, but when the techno goop woke him up he became aware to the poi t he felt he should have been able to do something.
Rhinox's betrayal only makes sense to me if his mind was still being afflicted by Megatron's reprogramming like in season one of Beast Wars, I can't personally accept the idea that the Rhinox who risked life and limb to safeguard past, present, & future, as well as his fellow maximals at every turn, would willingly turn to the darkside of his own accord. Again, thats me though.
I always took what Megatron MkIII did to Rhinox, Waspinator and Silverbolt as being akin to rape. Having their bodies move of their own volition, talking in ways they do not want to say--having their bodies move in a sick and twisted version of their original self. There is a point in rape, where the person's body will move against what the person wants to have happen... and... that fucks up how they handle things.
Rhinox and Silverbolt end up being really psychologically fucked up from it. Waspinator turns out really really enjoyed it... because... of course Waspinator would enjoy it. Fucking Waspinator.
I found Megatron's change in character is understandable when you take into account that he has been back on Cybertron for a long period of time. Decades, maybe centuries. Who knows how his return was perceived. Especially with his organic mode. Which he seems to be stuck in cause he couldn't just switch out.
Okay but.. you think a long time isolated in a body he hates... taught him to respect honor? made him LESS quirky and unhinged?
Do you guys forget that when he absorbed G1 Megatron's spark in Beast Wars, he also inherited his hatred for Organics as you see in G1, Megatron hated organic life forms (humans)
@@RatedShadowXrd That actually never happened. Megatron acted almost no differently after obtaining his Transmetal 2 form. The only difference was that now he was calling himself "The Dragon", as pointed in the video, showing pride for his beast mode, and he became more vocal about his God complex. Heck, he even pets his dragon head just like he did with his T-Rex head (again, as shown in this video). Also, G1 Megatron developed his hatred for organics after the events of the first 2 seasons of G1 MTMTE (a.k.a. the original Transformers show) and when Beast Wars Megatron fused his spark with G1 Megatron, it was the spark of a Megatron who had yet to encounter any organics and develop a hatred for them. And let's not forget that Optimus Primal fused his spark with Optimus Prime's spark (which was also linked to the Matrix of Leadership by the way) and his personality remained pretty much unchanged.
The whole organics thing never made sense to me since I always assumed their animal alt modes in Beast Wars weren't actually organic at all, just synthetic.
The transmetal alt modes I never considered organic either, so Megatron hating having a robotic dragon body made no sense either.
Like there were plenty of animal looking Decepticons and Autobots in G1 like Ravage and the Dinobots.
@@RatedShadowXrd that was never confirmed it was always just a theory.
I heard a theory that Rattrap actually faield to awaken Tankor. When waspinator and siverbot were awakened they acted like their old selves but not Rhinox. According to this theory all Rattrap did was give Tankor access to Rhinox's memory tracks and the shell program still active (unlike the organic goo which suppresses the shell program) warped Rhinox's psyche and his spark was still corrupted. He does show remorse when he's in the matrix after all.I doubt this was the writer's intentions but it's what I'm choosing to belive.
This is my thoughts on this as well; Rhinox's memories and intelligence were unlocked, but he was still trapped in the body and programming of Tankor. It's literally Rhinox's re-programming in Beast Wars all over again. Tankor's programming means he still shared Megatron's goals and ideals of a purely mechanical Cybertron, while Rhinox's intelligence leads him to view Megatron as incompetent, and go off on his own to follow his own agenda.
an excellent theory I back it
I reallly missed Dinobot throughout this series.
Agreed. I mean, Megatron cloned him twice on Beast Wars, a new Dinobot would make sense storywise and be welcomed by most fans.
I think Dinobot would have saved the show tbh.
Unless his personality was completely altered like everybody elses....
You could argue, through Dinobot's defections, it gave Megatron the reason why he created an army of subservient Drones.
It would have been so awesome if Dinobot 2 with the original Dinobot's soul was saved at the end of Beast Wars and returned to Cybertron with them. Then when he gets infected he would get the original Dinobot's beast mode, and then be reformatted. Also, I think if would be cool if Dinobot didn't change his activation code at the end of Beast Wars, so be the time Beast Machines came around, he was still a Predacon, but still working with the Maximals. That was it shows that the difference between Maximals and Predacons no longer matters. Both are equally hunted by Megatron, who at this point is no longer a Predacon.
I attribute the changes in Megatron to him going completely over the edge
It should be noted he canonically had an altercation with his old mob boss, Cryotek, in the time between shows. It's how he got the scar over his left eye, and if I recall correctly, the means to conquer cybertron.
@@jamessinclair2898 That's a good story addition.
Prime and Animated are legendary shows, up there with G1 and Beast Wars
I didn't care for the art style of Animated but the story was really good.
I can't say I agree with Prime. Prime was ok at best, too many episodes felt like nothing really happened, and the final season was a mess. The whole thing just felt overwrought.
I don't see it
Guys I just realized I completely forgot about Vehicon diagnostic drone >.<
Oh well.
You could always make another video.
Give the drone a video! Lol. But seriously I'd watch it.
Bull Session yah what’s up with that. 👽
Yeah that guy was amazing! lol lots of similarities to 343 guilty spark from Halo, even though he was like 2 years later I think. Still that sort of character, look at how popular 343 became in halo.
Bull Session before the series ended back then I would of liked it to journey to the quintasons and other transformers out post.
The Matrix meets Beast Wars meets George Orwells 1984?
pretty much!
Something to remember with Megatron in Beast Machines is that he was not 100% going with the hole "unify every spark on Cybertron" idea just to make peace, but in order to become a god, an idea which he grew more interested in throughout Beast Wars. It's even belived that if he had succeeded in his plans at the end of Beast Machines, he would probably have become like Primus and Unicron. an all powerful transformer god.
Oh PLEASE review TFA if you can
*Please*
I always took it that Rhinox reprogramming into Tankor corrupted his spark and that's why he turned evil rather than Rhinox just going insane for no particular reason.
You did an excellent job with this retrospective; @16:40 really hit the nail on the head for me as far as summarizing my own issues with Beast Machines. Sadly this same failing seems to be repeating itself with certain other franchises as new blood comes in wanting to "make their own mark" and "do things different than the last person" rather than focus on logically progressing and evolving the work in a thoughtful and respectful way being careful to keep the spirit of the piece intact.
To be fair, from what you've presented it certainly doesn't seem as though the writers meant to be disrespectful but the end result is the same -- least as far as I'm concerned.
Indeed; I couldn't help but see comparisons between this and some other recent sci-fi series I could name.
13:34. Yeah, I wish they elaborated upon what sequence of events caused Megs to not only forsake his over the top, Saturday morning baddie persona we all loved but also develop his obsessive disdain towards anything organic. Feel like we missed a pretty interesting slice of Megs character development. The transition from Hammasaurus Rex to a Master Control KO.
Okay, first of all, holy shit my comment got featured! Awesome, glad I made some kind of impact! Second, I'll say this about Silverbolt going all angry: He's not just pissed about what he did as Jetstorm. He mentions on one occasion, if I remember right, that... let's call it the core of his Spark, was AWARE of what he was doing at Jetstorm... and he REVELED in it. He LOVED it, and it's THAT fact that has Silverbolt so disgusted and disturbed. He hates Megatron for doing that to him, and he's angry at himself for what being Jetstorm showed him, that he's not as pure and good as he wants to think he is, that he's just as capable of enjoying the dark and cruel stuff as anyone else when he has reason to toss his morals aside.
Also, I strongly suspect that Rhinox went bad because he still had Tankorr's Vehicon programming screwing with his head and perspective. If he'd been properly reformatted, I feel he would've joined the maximals. I don't have much of an explanation for Silverbolt's one-off moment except for maybe that goop suppressed the Vehicon programming allowing Silverbolt to come to the surface - but why he's so true to himself instead of being all dark and broody like later, I got nothing.
Your analysis of Rattrap was fantastic! I had it in the back of my mind the whole time I was watching Beast Machines, so of course I had to give credit. I've had a few people posit that perhaps Silverbolt wasn't aware of being Jetstorm until after Blackarachnia gooped him, with the change in personality occurring between then and when he was reformatted.
...Come to think of it, what video was that comment on? I went looking for it, but can't find it now :(
@@BullSession It's been a few years now, and Beast Wars stuff is showing up on my feed again, and I watched through these again. Had some thoughts swimming through my head about Silverbolt's character in Beast Machines and how drastically he changed; just posted the following little mini-essay on another video, and realized I should toss it your way (with a couple minor additions), see what you think.
---
Personally, I think his original personality shining through when he got briefly splashed was the Vehicon shell program and "Jetstorm" programming and memories just shutting down entirely, leaving Silverbolt to rise to the surface. But, Silverbolt himself hadn't been awake and aware, he didn't know anything about being Jetstorm since the memories were blocked by the organo-goop, so he just flashed back to his old self.
But once he reformatted, he retained Jetstorm's memories, since they weren't "shut down" or removed or anything like they were with the goop. The Vehicon programming, the artificial Jetstorm personality removed, all of it - but he kept the memories, and that's the part that haunts Silverbolt. He isn't able to separate his true self from what he did as Jetstorm, and how he behaved and felt.
The idea that... *that* might be a part of who he truly is underneath the Shining Knight persona he put up simply destroys him on an emotional level, and shatters that very Knightly persona, leaving him dark, brooding, and with a heavy dose of self-loathing. He's been shown, as far as he can tell, proof that for as noble and heroic as he tries to act, it's all just hiding *that* monster underneath, and he just doesn't believe that it could all be coming from the shell program and the vehicon programming. He's an angry person now because he's angry at who he now perceives himself to be, and so he lashes out at everyone and everything. (There might also be some lingering resentment toward Cheetor making eyes at Blackarachnia toward the end of Beast Wars contributing on that front as well, to be honest)
Once all the threat is over and Cybertron is reformatted, Silverbolt may slap on the old corndog tones, but I don't believe for a second that he's magically all better. All that isn't going away any time soon.
I like to think Rhinox was corrupted by the Tankor programming much like when he got programmed to be a Predacon, like they a woke his personality and memories but didn't turn off Tankor's.
Also you are going to love Animated and Prime.
Looking forward to your Prime Retrospective.
Yeah prime and animated are good choices, unfortunately it seems that good shows always get canceled.
As for another show you can review:
Batman animated theres alot there especially with the design changes in later seasons
Justice league and its sequel
Samurai jack
Invader Zim
Or just make up in your mind seasons of reboot that don't exist.
Not mention
Avengers: Earth's mightiest heroes
Smoofyful Animated pretty much finished all its plot threads. It wasn't really 'cancelled' the way Beast Machines or Prime were.
Ah, yes, will wait for reviews of the DCAU.
I don't know, Animated had some loose ends, one of which was proper closure for Sari Sumdac.
Never botherd watching beast machines because of said criticism. Your review now convinced me to convinced me to give it a shot. Thanks for the review, going to binge it now.
You're welcome! I hope you enjoy the show
Enjoy it, I was always and will always be to angry on how it felt they shitted all over characters I was loving even more than the OG shows.
Megatron, rhinox and Optimus represent the three paths. Megatron being the soulless Collective as machine with the other cybertronians mindlessly obeying him. Rhinox representing neutral path of going back to regular Transformers. Optimus representing the polar opposite of Megatron by individualism through organic integration instead of mechanical augmentation.
Essentially the Tyrant God ,the Godless and the neutral nurturing passive God.
Both prime and animated are amazing.
i feel like prime had a better tone overall, but animated was better on a episode-to-episode plot base. a lot of prime can be summarized by "go collect a bunch of crap before the decepticons do". which isn't terrible, but it does get kind samey to the point where the show even makes fun of the idea in season 3
I haven't seen animated yet but I heard it's very good. Prime was the best show since Beast Wars. I hoped until the very end of it we would get at least a cameo from Optimus Primal and Pred. Megatron (or at least the Dinobots, since they were mentioned once)
Fan theory for why Megatron wants to go through "Unity"
During the time skip/time travel shenanigans Megatron showed up after the tech got developed to allow for this union of sparks. When eventually Megatron for one reason or another became part of this test his personality became the highest on the surface of this gestalt intelligence. This isn't fully Megatron, just an intelligence with his lust for power coupled by the purpose of the program to reduce energon usage before they become extinct. It then took over, using transformer bodies with simple AI as drones commanded by modified sparks of those whom Megatron knew had traits that would be useful for one reason or another, limiting their personalities to focus on those traits for better control.
Further, the main reason synthesis between organic/technological would be beneficial is that in a well optimized organism it would mean they could survive/multiple in extremely varied fashions. This is vital for a species that previously ran on a limited/hard to obtain resource like Energon. Energon isn't finite but it's natural production is slow, with the plants they allow the biomechanical to have some systems run on energon, and the rest on renewable/faster to grow plant matter (or in the case of plant based transformers they can use the sun directly) I think the whole thing was meant to be an example of how if we find balance with tech/nature we can live a sustainable but ultimately better life with more freedom, and the people who would be against it are those powerful few who have everything with how things are now who are willing to use people's lives as a resource. (absorption of essentially souls as Sparks)
I feel like Rhinox' change of heart also kinda makes sense in a similar way to Rattrap and Cheetor. When he comes back into control of the Tankor body, He gets to see Primal's change from the military leader he followed to a weird spiritual zealot. I doubt that would sit well for the Tech savvy, logical, and kind of old school Rhinox that his best friend and leader has completely shifted away from the original cause towards something so completely different and world altering like the reformating. I'd do the same thing if I was him, honestly.
Eh? Rhinox had his spiritual moments in Beast Wars. And the change in Primal is still no excuse for what he did.
It would seem a bit contrasting too for Optimus to be against technological ingenuity while that essentially being Rhinox's character. If he had joined Megatron because of that contrast it would have been interesting.
But Rhinox liked being in his organic mode, though. Hell I remembered during the Trigger when the Maximals had to evacuate from their base, the first thing Rhinox did was grab a plant that he kept in his closet and brought it with him
5:30 Scott McNeil gave possibly his best performance with that line about losing his friend Dinobot in the beast wars
I feel like Megatron's personality change maybe caused the fact that he absorbed so many Sparks into himself that it's suppressed his own personality
That definitely crossed my mind, but had he already started absorbing them by the start of the series? He still had a physical body
Waspinator made his own way back to Cybertron somehow, Silverbolt and Rhinox arrived at the same time as Primal.
The reason Megatron's personality changed is most likely because he arrived on Cybertron long before Primal and his friends arrived. So possibly many years ahead of them. In that time he started to experiment and create the transformation virus, pick up the stasis locked bodies of the transformers and use them as parts in creating his drone army and remove their sparks, take control over all of Cybertron and rule over it. By the time Primal and his crew came back to Cybertron, Megatron was most likely no longer the same person he was when Primal last saw him.
In many ways, he was still exactly the same person, just far less jokey. Still the same power mad megalomaniac.
The best way to put it is: think of how different you were ten years ago... now, put that to the power of ten. Because that is how it ends up scaling up... not just times ten... but to the power of ten.
Now... just understand--the version of Megatron Mk III here is a version of Megatron Mk III that is one hundred years older than the one we knew in Beast Wars.
I love that you did this! I always had a place in my heart for anything that continued with the same characters I loved from beast wars, when a show dies, its kinda like losing an entire group of friends, so seeing them all in this desperately hopeless situation, and seeing them continue, it was satisfying. I remember first hearing the premise for the show, in the ads, when Megatron said: "The Beast Wars are over, you lost" I was like, OMG they lost! What a great idea! Cause no show does that, like, ok the bad guy totally wins, what now? it also retro-activly biases beast wars, you can watch it again knowing, omg after all this, they lose. That's so much more interesting! But your right on all accounts, excellent review, and your most right about that chase theme song! lol Thanks for taking the time to make this.
Wow armadas theme goes with almost every transformers cartoon
I only have 1 major comment I want to add with regards to Megatron,
I felt it was obvious but it might be my own head-cannon but I assumed the reason Megatron was so different was because he might have literally been alone ruling cybertron for something like 100+ years, and being some dramatic/theatrical talker might have not survived intact without anyone to banter with, which is why when he gets stuck in the mini-drone we see the return of "Yes, yes", he finally has someone to talk to (and again my head-cannon) might have missed Primal, the scene/song in Simpsons between Bart and Sideshow Bob "I've grown accustomed to your face." came to my mind after rewatching Beast Machines again.
Was it meant to have been that long? My impression was that he had taken over somewhat recently, though I could totally be wrong.
It was unlikely a full century, Megatron's rule was only for a few months before Primal's ship finally arrived.
They mention that it is hard to know how long Megatron was in charge--as time was kind of fucked up, and the calendar stopped being reissued each year.
The surprise of them finding Batboy is based upon the notion that they flat out should have not found any... and the notion of one hundred years is given as an estimate... as Megatron hit the planet so hard it broke the calendar.
Nobody knows what year it is... is part of why nobody knows how long he was in charge.
Yeah I always wondered how long it was between Megatron arriving, and the Maximals. I suppose Megatron had enough time to make a transformation virus that nobody could stop, and take over and mop up pretty quick. When you want something done right I guess. Still that alone must have been an interesting story.
You've, never, seen Transformers Prime?!?!?!!?
Go, NOW, and watch it. Stop whatever else you are doing and WATCH it!
Thank god we got Transformers Energon instead of that Transtech. BAD MOVE HASBRO!
TransTech could have been the best series of them all. It could have been the worst one too though (although I doubt it)
Ugh... I couldn't stand Armada Energy and Cybertron.... that trilogy was... ugh. Those kids. The Pokémon theme... Unicron taking like 5 or 7 episodes to transform. Autobots trying to so PC and not be destructive etc. I heard a few decent things about the 3rd season. So I tried another episode. And nope just went too slow for me as a 30 something at the time. I wasn't a 4 year old to appreciate that trilogy.
Starscream was one of the few highlights. Instead of a traitor, he was a brave warrior who died trying to warn everyone of Unicron. Of course, the "sequels" ruined his ending, but he was still awesome in Armada.
“ITS ALL THE FAULT OF ALPHA Q!”
Not gonna lie, the finale is nicely memorable.
Also, gotta love Cheetor's arc, especially with his bookends moments (him saying the first words of BW and the last words of BM AND also his fight with Waspinator, which was the very first fight in BW).
Edit: Also, Animated is a must (despite having some unresolved loose ends). Prime's good too, but it feels weak compared to its video game prequels War for Cybertron and Fall of Cybertron.
Beast Machines: Good Ideas, sloppy execution.
Cannot argue with that.
It also doesn't help that a lot of the audience did not understand what they were attempting to convey... which, just means they failed to convey it effectively.
As well as some very sloppy ideas with good execution.
It reminded me of Need for Speed Carbon
Do you know what else was a sloppy execution?
Starscream's death
I'm done
No i hate it
Reboot Season 4 yes please!
Daemon: Paetron deity of the Uchiha clan.
I can't remember where I heard this theory, but it was one where Megatron's character changes could be explained as the result of him arriving on Cybertron years, if not CENTURIES before the others. Being the sole semi-organic being on the planet may have influenced how the other cybertronians treated him, making it harder for him to gain the supporters he once gathered with ease. Gradual over time he may have grown to despise the beast side of himself, the side he once loved, as it now stood as a wall preventing him from obtaining power... Which is admittedly a whole bunch of fanfiction-y fluff, but the general idea is still somewhat sound.
That could explain it, but at the same time, he's a Transformer. Can't he just scan a new vehicle mode on Cybertron to replace his Beast Mode?
You'd think. Nothing outright states that he can't, yet he still keeps the form. On that subject though, how DOES one obtain a vehicle mode on Cybertron? Is there a database one draws on in order to obtain it, or do they have the actual vehicles laying around? If it's the former, maybe Megatron couldn't access it in his new form? Ugh. Again, fanfiction-y fluff and speculation; nothing more.
Manly Derp maybe it’s because of the Transmetal wave thing that hit him and the Maximals? Maybe it altered their structure to the point that they can’t naturally change their form to something else anymore, only variations on their current Beast Mode?
I think that's a fair enough guess, and would tie in with Beast Machines' philosophy of needing to find peace with your form in order to transform it.
He wasn't semi organic though, the beast modes were just their typical outer armor restructuring into a form that resisted Earth's overly strong electromagnetic field and looked like animals. It was still all synthetic/robotic, and the only outside stuff that influenced it was other Transformers (Megatron and Prime) that just strengthened them overall. It just doesn't work with Megatron hating it, it's essentially a blessing from his idol and has nothing that he hates.
Wonderful second half! Waited all week for it! Cant wait to see more Transformers retrospectives! Animated and Prime are so good, I highly recommend both!
I recently rewatched all of Animated and enjoyed every bit of it. I hear a lot that Sari is one of the best human characters in the transformers franchise and I honestly have to agree. That said, I wish they did more with her in the final season.
Megaton from beast war to beast machines was cast back in time dominated the planet and your either a sparkles drone or in his soul trap. When maximal come back he's worried he is at risk of losing everything
I've enjoyed watching both Animated and Prime. I can't wait to see your retrospective of each.
Maybe Megatron's darker mood is a result of winning for once. His ambition has made him insane. He's let his new power go to his head. Kinda like Scar. Now that he's King, he feels entitled to do what he wants. He basically thinks he's God now.
Lovely work as always, Bull. Personal thoughts on Beast Machines myself is that, while if you were to take it apart from Beast Wars, it is quite an enjoyable show. The problem is that the constant call backs and the characters themselves put it in your face that, no matter what, this IS a sequel show... and it's obvious to tell the difference between the two.
That's a really great point. Like, yea going off and doing your own thing is cool, but then don't tie the series so intrinsically to what came before.
I have rewatched your Beast machine retrospective three times. Beast machine is one of my favourite series. I know it gets a lot of hate but I really enjoyed the world they built and the character motivations. Thanks for the rewatch
This is the main reason why I can't get into Beast Machines. The characters feel nothing like their old selves (except for Cheetor), and I keep thinking about how the characters from Wars would handle this situation. Optimus pisses me off the most, because despite his lack of episodes focused on him, he's probably my favourite character after Dinobot. I loved that he wasn't the right bot for the job, but he still did his best, both as a commanding officer and as a father figure to his men. And when his friends were dying in the Nemesis duality, he decided "no more deaths," and went to fight Megatron alone. He knew he was probably going to die, and he went anyways, never surrendering so long as there was fight in him. Optimus was a great leader who showed that, even though we may be flawed, we can rise to the occasion and do what needs to be done.
Then Beast Machines decided to make him into this spiritual leader who was more than often adverse to fighting Megatron and had to be yelled at by Cheetor. Sometimes he would fight, but more often than not he rambled about the Oracle's doctrain and went about his weird crusade of making the planet organic (didn't he tell Blackarachnia that it wasn't the Maximal way to take away free will and choice from others?). It felt like a massive downgrade for the character and is a major reason why I don't accept the explanation of "character development" for the Beast Machines cast without further explanation. Sure, they are developed from Beast Wars, but that doesn't solve the problem, it just explains it.
Just realized, this show is a Transformers version of Left Behind. Optimus Primal is the Second Coming, Megatron is the Anti-Christ, Cybertron's populace got swept up in a sort've "Robo Rapture", the Maximals are the Tribulation Force rebels, the planet's Technorganic reformatting is Kingdom Come, the Vehicon generals Shell Programs are the Mark Of The Beast. Okay, maybe that last one's a stretch, but you see what I mean. Now I wish Nightscream was voiced by Kirk Cameron. #CrocBirdLover4Life. :P
I don't think Rhinox was badly mishandled. He got home and all his friends wanted to CHANGE what he knew and cared about. With Megatron having a chance to mes with him. plus Rhinox seeing that things were going to be entirely changed from what he wanted if the Maximals won, he wasn't evil as much as just, ready to do whatever he felt was right, and to challenge Megatron.
Only found the beast wars reviews today. Cool for me to be here on the same day this episode was uploaded. Thanks for the content!
You're very welcome!
Just after 12 minutes you say that Rhinox decided to be evil because evil is cooler but I see it as he was corrupted either by Megatron or through becoming Tankor. When he was freed of his body and became a spark, he spoke with Optimus and showed he was remorseful for what he had done and had become clear-headed once more.
This. The Maximals brought back Rhinox memories, but he was still Tankor. He was a different being corrupted by Megatron.
@@Astrotrain78 He even says so himself: "I'm not quite the Maximal I once was neither am I what Megatron made me"
Megatron's hatred for the beast mode still makes no sense since it has no organic parts and he could just transform into something else if he wanted. Writers really dropped it with that one
Gonna assume, from memory of watching this as a kid that Megatron, having taken over Cybertron, probably just mellowed out, he didn't have rivals to butt heads with or listen to his monologuing so him just commanding units and conquering and just 'succeeding', one could argue, dulled his creative expressiveness, perhaps? He became more calculative and discarded a lot of the rough edges and flaws, or I guess one could presume he reformatted in his own way to be more of what worked to him and removed all the unnecessary bits that got in the way. In that process, he became sterile but kept the ruthlessness. You could argue this but of course, its not going to be canon or as accepted as what people would've preferred of Season 2 of Beast Wars of menacing but also comical.
I just remember hating how it ended where the Bat robot basically became a glass cannon that could one-hit-kill Megatron at his strongest at the very end? Idunno.
Tf Animated and Prime are both amazing shows. You will not be disappointed with either.
I'd love to see you review TFA or TFP. It seems like both were shows that helped draw a lot newcomers into the franchise( I'm kinda one of them), as well as introduce new characters that have become well-known and beloved by fans.
Oh I'm sorry I couldn't hear you because Silverbolt's Edge was speaking to high.
I love how the Batman the Animated Series theme played while you talked about Nightscream.
Oh. I would love to see you do a retrospective on Gargoyles.
Transformers: Prime = AWESOME!!
Facts🔥💯
To be fair, in that episode, the first thing Rattrap does when he gets the exosuit is to aim at Megatron and be seconds from pulling the trigger before Megatron sweet talks him in that way he does into holding up his end of the deal. So his plan all along was to get weapons from Megatron, then kill him there and then. As for Megatron's change with honour, I've heard it theorised that he realises that if he had listened to Dinobot II's advice, and not fired the Nemesis fusion cannon on the humans, thus draining it's power for when they got to the Ark, he would have won the Beast Wars there and then. If he had acted with honour, he would have won outright, instead of being defeated. Thus, he now follows an honour code. And look! Now he is, he's won! Cybertron is his. I like this theory, so I choose this as what's happened. Really, we need a series telling the story of what happened between Megatron escaping off the shuttle and his takeover of Cybertron. Show us his character growth.
I'm with ya on the character gripe. Though the conflicts within the show and the general level of darkness and uncertainty to the future really griped me. It didn't feel like a cartoon where I'd know things would return to the status quo by the end of each episode. As a kid it also introduced me to a lot of big ideas and didn't say one or the other was better for which I'm grateful because it asked me to think for myself.
The more i think about it the more this series problems had to do with it being a sequel to beast wars. Had this been a new continuity (or the same continuity with a new cast like it was for G1 to Beast Wars) this show would probably be hated less. Granted it wouldn’t solve every problem and I can still imagine the themes being divisive but not to the extent it is now
that's definitely the biggest problem. On its own merits, there's really not much wrong with it
As I said in the previous part, I remember liking this series.
And I liked the changes done to Megatron. He was funny and sometimes intimidating before, here was intimidating and even scary, like "there's no more time for joking around, I'm going to destroy you". I don't remember how many time pass between his arrival to the planet and the start of the show with the Maximals, maybe he changed there.
I feel I agree strongest that the biggest problem is the re-use of various characters for this series. Like the modern "Teen Titans Go" debacle, the problem is that the writing gets undercut by using the narrative shortcut of using familiar characters for what is otherwise a new series.
Rattrap and Silverbolt do get it the worst. Without an open air dor comedy, their smarter sides (loose definition wirh Silverbolt, but go with it) don't come through in the writing which is unfortunate as they were some of the more popular characters from Beast Wars. Thus, the betrayal of these two characters in particular, despite provided reasons, likely just left a bitter taste for returning fans.
5:58 as I’m listening to Linkin Park while watching this… I feel attacked 🤣
Great vid.
"I got a great idea for a theme for a kid's show. It's gonna be all green and environmental."
"Yeah, People love the environment. That should work for any show on Earth good idea."
"It's Transformers. It's about robots, not people."
"Oh. ... Well, actually the current Transformers show is about animals on ancient Earth. If you carry on that show, you can make it about them not damaging Earth. Okay."
"It's on Cybertron."
"Is this a good plan?"
I never had the chance to watch animated all the way through, but I remember enjoying Prime quite a bit. Looking forward to hearing your review on either of them
I think the idea behind the Vehicon generals is that Megatron installed shell programs in them, with Rhinox turning evil once his memories came back being the result his original and new personalities meshing together. After he dies the show seems to imply he's back to normal. Still this was something that show could have explored better.
We do see see Megatron's witty personality come through in this series, but yeah a lot of his characterization feels like he may as well be a different person. Something I did like is that we saw he programed his generals so they would short out if they attacked him. Given the rate his minions turned on him in Beast Wars, this feels like something he would do given how he was shown to be quite paranoid.
prime is a classic but I think animated is an underapreciatied gem that deserves more love
Transformers animated: one big twist on the transformers mythology
Transformers prime: the best show I have seen as a child
You summed it up quite well
I think that Rhinox's former predacon influence from Dark Designs may not have been fully removed but dormant. it probably arose once more when he was turned vehicon
Just want to say, great review. I've enjoyed watching these and getting some behind the scenes info. I will say, Rhinox was my favorite character of Beast Wars and it always bothered me that he turned into a villain. Being controlled is one thing, but when he flat out remembers who he used to be and chooses to betray his former teammates, that's where it hurt for me.
In regards to Beast Machines; I've softened a bit to it over the years, but it's flaws are *JUST* egregious enough that I just can't get into it as a Beast Wars sequel. It was an *INCREDIBLY* bold direction for the franchise, and I respect it for going in the direction it did, but I feel it suffered a lot from being directly tied to Beast Wars.
To be honest, I find Prime and Beast Machines are actually fairly comparable; both are shows that are very polarizing. Some people love Prime, some people hate it, others are just ambivalent. Personally, I fall more into the third camp; it's a good show, but it's not *great*; it's not close to Animated and Beast Wars as "best TF show", in my opinion.
Animated is almost perfectly like what happened with Beast Wars itself; a show that took a large departure from what was expected and ultimately became a fandom darling in spite of the icy reception it was given initially. It's not for everybody, but Animated is a well-done show.
Both Animated and Prime have their problems, but if you were to ask me what their biggest problems were, it would be they both ended t soon. So I hope that helps you when it comes time to take a look at these shows.
Mhm, this pretty much seems to be the sentiment I'm getting on those two series.
Yeah and don't get me wrong there are some other things there. However I am just heart broken about the stuff we didn't get. For example in season four of Prime the plan was to have it be Wild West Themed and with Maximals as cowboys. And Animated was going to get a episode in their four season in which they would have done a Mirror Universe with a Heroic Megatron and an Evil Optimus. Soooo, you know just some things that would have just been amazing...
Prime did at least get a feature length film to cap off the series, and besides the conspicuous absence of the humans, is quite good. The final lines delivered by Prime are some of the best ever written in the TF franchise.
Honestly I would disagree with you on the movie. I felt that it made Megatron look really, really, really stupid. I mean the show makes it clear that Megatron was a very low class transformers and yet he doesn't know what oppression is like? He sounds like the serial killer from Family guy that finally stabs himself and realizes that it hurts. But you have a right to your own opinion man.
Yes it Prime was really good and it was the show that i wanted after the disaster of Beast Machines. It was stupid to cancel it forthe REALLY stupid RID
The big problem with Megatron's characterization is that we never got an in-depth look at the doizen+ cycles after he landed on Cybertron but before the Maximals showed up. It is clear he had character development off screen, but off-screen character development does not count.
I'm with you, I didn't love those show or hate it. I was in the middle, but the characters weren't as good and the toys were horrible.
I watched both TF Animated and Prime, both were great in my opinion.
Something really dark I noticed re-watching the show as an adult is that Nightscream is played like a holocaust survivor. As he is tortured by the guilt and even asks "Why did I survive, I could've saved them!" Very Schindler's list.
I kinda wish Beast Machines would be about Maximals and Megatron joining forces against new enemy who conquered Cybertron. Let's say... it was Maximals whom remained on Cybertron decided to turn the planet into one hive and predacons are remaining force fighting the power. Optimus is forced to set Megatron free so he could bring more bots to battle. However it gets clear Optimus and Megatron have different plan for Cybertron and old and new characters are divided into two new groups; Idealistic and Pragmatic.
Thanks for retrospective. I recently rewatched it myself and found it better than a lot of the shows that came after.
You'll really enjoy Animate & Prime! Looking forward to your review!
19:53 is it just me or does that Optimus' vehical mode seem to resemble that of War for Cybertron/Fall of Cybertron Optimus'?
While I did like Beast Machines. It felt like mostly Cheetor got the best character development with him taking leadership away from Optimus, and calling him out on his extremism multiple times, and actually being a more competent leader then Optimus. Personally I would love to have Cheetor remain the permanent leader of the team after the events of Forbidden Fruit and actually try to find a balance between technology and nature in contrast to Optimus, and Megatron's extremist beliefs. Essentially have three central characters with their own beliefs Optimus, and Megatron being extremist fanatics with their beliefs of Nature, and Technology respectively being the only thing best for the planet, and Cheetor having the belief that neither pure Nature, or pure Technology is the best thing for the planet but instead the best thing for Cybertron would be a peaceful balance between the two.
I remember playing with that huge cheetor toy as a kid good times
I thought it was both awesome (for character depth) and tragic that Jetstorm was Silverbolt. I was horrified that BA turned him back as a kid. I had hoped he would stay or maybe split somehow. I was so upset that even as an adult I hate watching his transformation scene when I revisit the series.
Jetstorm was my favorite for how different and odd and hyper aggressive he was. His character design was sleek and completely unexpectedly androgynous for someone so masculine by personality. That he was Silverbolt turned inside out? Brilliant, as was the reveal moment. And then even more brilliant when later, seemingly without meaning to, he lets BA touch his face in a quiet moment btw them. Even tho normally he repeatedly denied wanting anything to do with her. He was and still is fascinating and it's a shame he hasn't shown up in other continuities.
Honestly I'd love it if they'd do a reboot of Beast machines but instead of Megatron being the big bad it was the Quintessons or the tri predicus counsel (since they were Unicron descendants)
This could give us the unique interaction of Megatron and the Maximals being forced to join forces, though begrudgingly at first we could see a Megatron character arc where he has to go through a ego death and find himself again, with all his goals and desires destroyed he finds that he must put aside his former desire for glory to ensure a future for Cybertron maybe have him experience his own version of code of Hero
It didn’t handle them well
Expect cheetor
Talk about the DC animated stuff!
Oh my God yes.
He could easily do Batman, Superman, Justice League, and the obscure stuff like Zeta Project and Static Shock.
Loved these main-frame retrospectives. Looking forward to reboot 4, and transformers Prime.
Animated should definitely be next. It was the first time we were introduced to a Cybertron and it’s culture that wasn’t ravaged by war. And the characters go through some fun changes. Though if he does review it, he’ll need the Allspark Almanac book for behind the scenes and what would of came season info for the show.
As much as I love Beast Wars (and I do, a lot), Animated and Prime are, I now find, my two favourite Transformers shows. Animated has so much love for the characters and storylines of previous series whilst still doing its own thing, and Prime is dark and serious and features one of the best depictions of Megatron ever. Maybe I still prefer Beast Wars to Prime though, I need to watch Prime again myself. Loved the toys though! For both those series!
Both Animated and Prime are great shows. Love 'em.
Nightscream looks like a Shiny Noivern.
Transformers Prime is actually fantastic. It has dark themes but doesn't delve too deep and still lands with solid jokes. I think Starscreem has a fantastic characterization in the series, due to him being more cunning and devious then ever before making him a huge threat to everyone. Magatron is also interesting with him being a lunatic but still methodical and and terrifying in his logic and tactics. Bumblebee unfortunately gets Bay'ed with not being able to speak but it is much better played out in Prime then in the Bay movies. They also touch on some deep lore plot threads and that just makes me smile on the inside being a fan of any sort of deep lore concepts.
Animated and Prime are amazing. You'll enjoy both.
As for other shows, Mainframe's Action Man comes to mind. Just look through the Fox Kids lineup in the 90's and you will find a tone of material.
I feel like Rhoinox was the Ironhide of Best Wars. Not so much in personality but in the fact that they were both the closest friends to their Optimus's, which is another why I hate the fact that Rhoinox became Tankor, it'd be like if Ironhide came back in G1 as a decepticon, it doesn't fit the character in anyway. Loved the video, I was wondering if you would do another retrospective on a transformers show, maybe prime?
There were a lot of parallels between those two, yea. I will get to Prime eventually, but it won't be for a while.