So a few viewers pointed out that I have the CTs backward on the 200A circuit. I had misread the manual and completely missed the diagram on that page. You have the arrow point toward the panel, not the meter. Thanks for pointing that out Doug and Michael.
I was going to point out the error, but you have corrected it. What I am interested to know is did the app show the same usage with the main CTs placed either way round? Great video👍
I like that you're a former TED user. My TED just died and I'm looking for an alternative. What I really liked about TED was the API. I wrote my own programs to log and display the data. Haven't found anything else yet that has an API.
RTL worked for me. For electricity any ways. My water meter uses frequency hopping (I think) so never could get those signals. Found a few neighbors tire pressure monitor sensors though. ;)
It seems like our power meters blast out every 10 minutes or so. Maybe even more often. I have the rtl_433 HA add on running on a few frequencies and hopping every 400 seconds. That gets my Lacrosse outdoor temp sensor reading too. Also... It took some figuring with value templates (filters too) to get all the rtl sensors to never show zero or major increases/decreases at reboot or restart. Pretty slick after that.
You should definitely connect the clamps to the device first. If you connect the clamps to the energized line then there will be current on the 3.5 mm jacks
You say on the title "all of your house's elec..." but use only 8 sensors. I got a medium size circuit breaker box with 40 breakers, your set only has 8 sensors, I know there is another one that comes with 16 sensors, that would leave me short by quite a few to be able to monitor all the house circuits. Can you add more sensors if you need to w/o adding another complete kit?
Thanks for doing this review, I am currently looking for a monitoring system. Do you know if this product will detect a power spike from your electrical provider?
Do you still use this monitor? If so, what are your longer terms thoughts? Also, do you use any of Emporia’s smart plugs? I have seen some information about long term connectivity issues with the plugs.
Yep it is still running strong. I actually have more sensors to install but haven't had the chance. I don't have any of the smart plugs from Emporia, but I have a ton of others (WiFi, HomeBridge, ZigBee, Zwave).
My Emporia says the opposite; L is to the breaker and K is to the meter. The word "Breaker" below the K--->L points to the L as well. When installed the cable is on the left of the clamp, not the right.
@@ThisSmartHouse I was just trying to help. I also installed mine today and interestingly, the clamps for the mains coming in are installed in one direction but the individual 50amp clamps clamp on in the opposite direction. The reason I picked this up right away is that the clamps have the K-->L "plus" the word Breaker---> on each one. They are opposite each other.
@@ThisSmartHouse Not at all! We are totally on the same page. Thank you for the replies and being a great contributor. Not terse at all. I didn't want you to think I was trolling you to point out mistakes. I was being friendly and helping. Keep up the great instructional posts!
Thanks for pointing it out. I do appreciate people who correct. I want to put out the best possible instructions for people and sometimes I do end up making mistake. I just wish youtube allowed you to put text over a already uploaded video so you could edit out the mistake.
I have a 400amp service to my house. It is basically 2ea 200 amp service breaker panels. Since we can use just 1 CT for a 240volt device, do you think I could get one of these emporia units and put the main line CT, 1 on each panel? I would expect the overall numbers in the “balance” field to be wrong.
Your total power consumption would also be way off. 240V appliances generally draw current evenly from both phases, but your panel overall will almost never have even current between phases due to how the single phase breakers are distributed.
I would think so. I assume your sub panels are more than 50A? I think that is the max for the individual clamps. I would reach out to Emporia's support, it is top tier (I think it is staffed by their engineering staff). They might have a more cost effective solution for you.
This is the info I'm looking for as well. One main panel with (2) 100a subpanels. It's 2 separate dwellings so to figure out electricity usage per unit.
I have a sub panel that is wired off the meter so the 2 main coils don't capture all the data - Ive tried capturing it with the 50 amp coils but it screws up all the math
@@dougboss6391 would need to run a separate analysis over whatever period of time you're comfortable with to get you what you need to know. Otherwise you could buy a unit for each panel. I personally went with the fist option.
You said it requires an internet connection, and that's when the red flags started going up. And I'm not wild about using wifi on a stationary device either.
Well there are advantages and disadvantages to each method. There is some back end analysis that needs to be done that I assume the unit won't have power to do. I have talked with them about local control and API access. As far as Wifi goes, most people probably don't have ethernet at their power panel. But yeah, I get it, I would love to have had ethernet as an option.
@@ThisSmartHouse right now the shelly pro 4pm sounds like a better option. check out this video: ruclips.net/video/5Cpi0DQlkik/видео.html or this one: ruclips.net/video/lX_q04bq6h8/видео.html
Hi. In our house there are two sheets with separate power wiring. Looks like that the splitter is outside, close to the meter and with no access to it. My question is there a way to use one device in my situation or I need two to monitor whole house? Thank you!
Great detailed video, thank you. I'm about to buy an Emporia, will it work without wifi? I don't have wifii here and don't want to pay for wifi service. Can the Emporia work by Bluetooth to my smartphone when I'm near the panel?
I am not understanding why sensors need to be placed on both legs of a single phase 240v system. Each leg is 180degrees from each other and amperage is measured on one leg only. If the sensors on any monitoring device are placed correctly one leg as example will read "x" amps and the other leg "-x amps" they will cancel each other out because of the phase. Another individual making a Utube fixed the problem by reversing the CT. Which is not correct. If anyone uses an amprobe it is used on one leg either one. This is not the first time I have heard someone talk about manually doubling the result but unless I am missing something this is not correct. A note that 240v is used to make the wire size smaller in an application. A toaster that runs on 120v at 9amps will run at 4.5 amps at 240v (if set up to do so) and use the same amount of watts. 120x9=1080 or 240x4.5=1080 The wire size can be much smaller in the case of the 240v. NOW MAYBE I am not understanding the operation of the unit BUT they did not supply 2 CTs for 240v circuits. If I am off base sorry!
There can be a difference of voltage between one leg and another in a panel. For example, if your microwave and a space heater are both running and happen to be on the same leg, but there's nothing else happening on the other leg. You'll have a difference in voltage and current between the two legs. For a single 240v appliance that does not use a neutral (such as an electric water heater) the two legs used on the double breaker are directly connected through the device. Even then, multiplying these loads by 2 is not as accurate as having a clamp on each leg due to possible voltage differences again.
Are you just wanting to check the output? I would think that if you just want to see a rough estimate you can do one clamp. Do you have an ATS or switch gear?
So thankful I watched this lol, so you can install it to two separate existing individual breakers if I understood you correctly? I was thinking of getting the sense and also saw mixed reviews as well as needing a 240v two pole breaker and only having one spot for a single pole breaker. This may be the device for me. Also, I see there’s an integration for home assistant through HACS, I’m also pretty new to home assistant coming from smartthings and hubitat. Can’t wait to look a little more into this device. Great video!! New subscriber here!
That is exactly why I put the video out! I was hoping it would be helpful. Yes, you can install it on two existing 120VAC breakers (they have to be adjacent so they are on different phases). I think the reason you see people say you need the 240 VAC two-pole breaker is because I believe the National Electrical Code requires it (you have to be able to disconnect both sides of a circuit at the same time). But because these are two separate circuits that you are just tapping into, then it should be ok. I had just gone out to the hardware store to grab two extra breakers when I re-read the manual and found the alternative install. I figured this would be the one most people would use. Home Assistant / HACS integration video is coming out next week. I can confirm it works well with the new energy dashboard.
@@ThisSmartHouse awesome man. I saw the machine learning on the sense was pretty iffy but this comes with an addition with the individual clamps for almost 1/3 the price lol this is a no brainer for me. Can’t wait to see the next video on this product. So I’m guessing you would recommend this one? Lol
Well just to be clear, I have only used this one and the old TED5000. But what I have seen with reviews and with the power of the HA energy dashboard, I think it is a real winner. Also I will say their support is stellar. When I first found the product, I contacted their support with some questions and got hooked up with one of their engineers. Super knowledgeable and helpful. So reach out if you have questions!
When you are in Second and Minute tabs, it looks like it is measuring "Power Consumption" measured in kW. This is not the same as kWH which is energy consumption. It also says in the Second and Minute tab "Energy use in kW" which is not correct.
Looks like mounting the antenna is less convenient if you have a flush mount panel like I have. I hate to drill holes in the cover, it I see no other easy way to do it.
@@ThisSmartHouse Flush. The panel is recessed into the wall such that the face of the panel is flush with the drywall. The knockouts thus just go into a finished wall cavity.
You said it wrong, explained it wrong, and connected it wrong, per the manual. The mains power is flowing into the panel so the panel is the load and the arrow goes into the panel.
I just went back and watched it, yep I had it backward. When was reading I saw the "K" imprint toward the breaker. The diagram at the bottom right clarifies that is the arrow toward the breaker. I will add a note in a pinned comment. Thanks for pointing that out. It is strange that it is working fine, maybe because they both are backward.
@@ThisSmartHouse and isn't in danger of fire the thin wires in different colors (Black+Red) when consuming all the building power in the charge center ?
I guess it all depends. There are safety ratings (dictated by the national electrical code here in the US) for all wiring. Any short runs are going to be reduced probability of a fire due to the fact that they don't generate a lot of resistance. What's your main concern?
@@ThisSmartHouse My main concern is about having installed my Emporia Vue 2 Gen, and get any of the colored wires (included in the kit) in fire risk when a lot of power is demanded by the building causing the main power lines feeding the building trigger the main termomagnetic breakers. They're are very thin, and in such situation they might be the get in fire, or melted causing a major safety issue. That's what I am worried about.
@@ThisSmartHouse Residential electric service in the United States (120/240 Vac) is sometimes called two-phase service but this is NOT correct. It is only single-phase, since both line voltages are derived from a single phase of a distribution transformer with a center tapped neutral and are 180° out of phase with each other.
Steve you are technically correct. But both in practice and in technical terminology each half of the 240vac system is called a phase (as you said each half is 180 degrees out of phase). I work in renewables and to get 240vac requires two sets of inverters. So we use the term bi-phase to call out the need for extra inverters when powering from our DC system. Who would have thought electrical naming conventions would be confusing... 😂
@@ThisSmartHouse I get the confusion and glad you understand. It is only getting crazier as solar, wind, and EV charging and discharging all come into play then toss in batteries and dc. On top of that there is so much info which is incorrect and all these people who believe the only way to charge vehicles is to install 400 amp service when they barely ever use 100 amp of the existing 200 service they have. Then many promote all these “plastic/pvc boxes and in chicago they are not legal as everything must be in conduit and it also serves as the ground for the electric service. Thanks for the reply
So a few viewers pointed out that I have the CTs backward on the 200A circuit. I had misread the manual and completely missed the diagram on that page. You have the arrow point toward the panel, not the meter. Thanks for pointing that out Doug and Michael.
Correct. The K - > L arrow should point toward the breakers.
I was going to point out the error, but you have corrected it. What I am interested to know is did the app show the same usage with the main CTs placed either way round?
Great video👍
@@grahambrown5874 I read that the Emporia will automatically adjust if you install the CTs backwards on the 200A mains, but not on the 50A CTs.
Thank you a lot, you answered ALL my questions.
I am glad I could help!
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Glad it was helpful!
I like that you're a former TED user. My TED just died and I'm looking for an alternative. What I really liked about TED was the API. I wrote my own programs to log and display the data. Haven't found anything else yet that has an API.
The emporia doesn't have an API but people have reverse engineered the app. That is how the home assistant integration works.
@@ThisSmartHouse I just found the emporia forum and there is a long thread in there about this. Looks encouraging.
They are a good company. I purchased it after chatting with the engineers. They seem receptive to feedback.
RTL worked for me. For electricity any ways. My water meter uses frequency hopping (I think) so never could get those signals. Found a few neighbors tire pressure monitor sensors though. ;)
Nice! How often does your power meter update? Really, TPM sensors?. That is awesome.
It seems like our power meters blast out every 10 minutes or so. Maybe even more often. I have the rtl_433 HA add on running on a few frequencies and hopping every 400 seconds. That gets my Lacrosse outdoor temp sensor reading too.
Also... It took some figuring with value templates (filters too) to get all the rtl sensors to never show zero or major increases/decreases at reboot or restart.
Pretty slick after that.
You should definitely connect the clamps to the device first. If you connect the clamps to the energized line then there will be current on the 3.5 mm jacks
Very cool. These things are priced within reason!
Yes that is why I picked it. I don't know why the other guys can get away with 2x - 3x the price.
@@ThisSmartHouse Can't wait to see the HASS integration...
Got to tease something for future videos.
At least you confirmed that it does work with Hassio... That was my only real hesitation in ordering one. Thanks
Yep. Works great with home assistant. You just need to install the custom integration via HACS.
You say on the title "all of your house's elec..." but use only 8 sensors. I got a medium size circuit breaker box with 40 breakers, your set only has 8 sensors, I know there is another one that comes with 16 sensors, that would leave me short by quite a few to be able to monitor all the house circuits. Can you add more sensors if you need to w/o adding another complete kit?
Thanks for doing this review, I am currently looking for a monitoring system. Do you know if this product will detect a power spike from your electrical provider?
I guess that depends on how big the spike is. To be detected it would have to reach a device in your house.
Do you still use this monitor? If so, what are your longer terms thoughts? Also, do you use any of Emporia’s smart plugs? I have seen some information about long term connectivity issues with the plugs.
Yep it is still running strong. I actually have more sensors to install but haven't had the chance. I don't have any of the smart plugs from Emporia, but I have a ton of others (WiFi, HomeBridge, ZigBee, Zwave).
My Emporia says the opposite; L is to the breaker and K is to the meter. The word "Breaker" below the K--->L points to the L as well. When installed the cable is on the left of the clamp, not the right.
I posted a correction. I had it backwards.
@@ThisSmartHouse I was just trying to help. I also installed mine today and interestingly, the clamps for the mains coming in are installed in one direction but the individual 50amp clamps clamp on in the opposite direction. The reason I picked this up right away is that the clamps have the K-->L "plus" the word Breaker---> on each one. They are opposite each other.
Sorry if that came off terse. I didn't mean it that way.
@@ThisSmartHouse Not at all! We are totally on the same page. Thank you for the replies and being a great contributor.
Not terse at all. I didn't want you to think I was trolling you to point out mistakes. I was being friendly and helping. Keep up the great instructional posts!
Thanks for pointing it out. I do appreciate people who correct. I want to put out the best possible instructions for people and sometimes I do end up making mistake. I just wish youtube allowed you to put text over a already uploaded video so you could edit out the mistake.
For anyone using this product; After monitoring your usages for a bit, did you change your habits in an attempt to lower your energy consumption?
It pointed out a few things (like some old incandescent bulbs that were being used a lot). But mostly I use it for automations.
Is it compatible with IFTTT?
I have a 400amp service to my house. It is basically 2ea 200 amp service breaker panels. Since we can use just 1 CT for a 240volt device, do you think I could get one of these emporia units and put the main line CT, 1 on each panel? I would expect the overall numbers in the “balance” field to be wrong.
I would check with their support. Really smart folks (staffed by some of their engineering staff).
Your total power consumption would also be way off. 240V appliances generally draw current evenly from both phases, but your panel overall will almost never have even current between phases due to how the single phase breakers are distributed.
Emporia told me they were working on a way to use 2x CT clamps and they can combine it in the back end. I haven't tested it though...
For a home with a main panel and multiple subpanels, is a separate monitor/controller required for each panel?
I would think so. I assume your sub panels are more than 50A? I think that is the max for the individual clamps. I would reach out to Emporia's support, it is top tier (I think it is staffed by their engineering staff). They might have a more cost effective solution for you.
This is the info I'm looking for as well. One main panel with (2) 100a subpanels. It's 2 separate dwellings so to figure out electricity usage per unit.
I have a sub panel that is wired off the meter so the 2 main coils don't capture all the data - Ive tried capturing it with the 50 amp coils but it screws up all the math
@@dougboss6391 would need to run a separate analysis over whatever period of time you're comfortable with to get you what you need to know. Otherwise you could buy a unit for each panel. I personally went with the fist option.
You said it requires an internet connection, and that's when the red flags started going up. And I'm not wild about using wifi on a stationary device either.
Well there are advantages and disadvantages to each method. There is some back end analysis that needs to be done that I assume the unit won't have power to do. I have talked with them about local control and API access. As far as Wifi goes, most people probably don't have ethernet at their power panel. But yeah, I get it, I would love to have had ethernet as an option.
@@ThisSmartHouse right now the shelly pro 4pm sounds like a better option. check out this video: ruclips.net/video/5Cpi0DQlkik/видео.html or this one: ruclips.net/video/lX_q04bq6h8/видео.html
I just bought an Emporium but how do you know its a generation 1 or a generation 2?
Hi. In our house there are two sheets with separate power wiring. Looks like that the splitter is outside, close to the meter and with no access to it. My question is there a way to use one device in my situation or I need two to monitor whole house? Thank you!
Do you have 2 phase in each section? How far are the two panels? I would think you would probably need two monitors unless they are relatively close.
@@ThisSmartHouse Yes, there are two phases in each section. And they are next to each other. But counter only one outside the house.
Great detailed video, thank you. I'm about to buy an Emporia, will it work without wifi? I don't have wifii here and don't want to pay for wifi service. Can the Emporia work by Bluetooth to my smartphone when I'm near the panel?
No - it needs WiFi to report to Emporia's cloud service, which is what the app connects to.
@@medivalonethe version of Vue 3 has Ethernet connection port available
Yes! I talked to Emporia's CEO at CES and was excited about the Ethernet port. I still have issues with my Vue2 and Wifi.
I am not understanding why sensors need to be placed on both legs of a single phase 240v system. Each leg is 180degrees from each other and amperage is measured on one leg only. If the sensors on any monitoring device are placed correctly one leg as example will read "x" amps and the other leg "-x amps" they will cancel each other out because of the phase. Another individual making a Utube fixed the problem by reversing the CT. Which is not correct. If anyone uses an amprobe it is used on one leg either one. This is not the first time I have heard someone talk about manually doubling the result but unless I am missing something this is not correct. A note that 240v is used to make the wire size smaller in an application. A toaster that runs on 120v at 9amps will run at 4.5 amps at 240v (if set up to do so) and use the same amount of watts. 120x9=1080 or 240x4.5=1080 The wire size can be much smaller in the case of the 240v. NOW MAYBE I am not understanding the operation of the unit BUT they did not supply 2 CTs for 240v circuits. If I am off base sorry!
There can be a difference of voltage between one leg and another in a panel. For example, if your microwave and a space heater are both running and happen to be on the same leg, but there's nothing else happening on the other leg. You'll have a difference in voltage and current between the two legs. For a single 240v appliance that does not use a neutral (such as an electric water heater) the two legs used on the double breaker are directly connected through the device. Even then, multiplying these loads by 2 is not as accurate as having a clamp on each leg due to possible voltage differences again.
Is there an option to monitor a generator set home backup?
You only need a single clamp for a double pole 240v breaker?
Are you just wanting to check the output? I would think that if you just want to see a rough estimate you can do one clamp. Do you have an ATS or switch gear?
So thankful I watched this lol, so you can install it to two separate existing individual breakers if I understood you correctly? I was thinking of getting the sense and also saw mixed reviews as well as needing a 240v two pole breaker and only having one spot for a single pole breaker. This may be the device for me. Also, I see there’s an integration for home assistant through HACS, I’m also pretty new to home assistant coming from smartthings and hubitat. Can’t wait to look a little more into this device. Great video!! New subscriber here!
That is exactly why I put the video out! I was hoping it would be helpful. Yes, you can install it on two existing 120VAC breakers (they have to be adjacent so they are on different phases). I think the reason you see people say you need the 240 VAC two-pole breaker is because I believe the National Electrical Code requires it (you have to be able to disconnect both sides of a circuit at the same time). But because these are two separate circuits that you are just tapping into, then it should be ok.
I had just gone out to the hardware store to grab two extra breakers when I re-read the manual and found the alternative install. I figured this would be the one most people would use.
Home Assistant / HACS integration video is coming out next week. I can confirm it works well with the new energy dashboard.
@@ThisSmartHouse awesome man. I saw the machine learning on the sense was pretty iffy but this comes with an addition with the individual clamps for almost 1/3 the price lol this is a no brainer for me. Can’t wait to see the next video on this product. So I’m guessing you would recommend this one? Lol
Well just to be clear, I have only used this one and the old TED5000. But what I have seen with reviews and with the power of the HA energy dashboard, I think it is a real winner.
Also I will say their support is stellar. When I first found the product, I contacted their support with some questions and got hooked up with one of their engineers. Super knowledgeable and helpful. So reach out if you have questions!
@@ThisSmartHouse awesome. Thank you!
When you are in Second and Minute tabs, it looks like it is measuring "Power Consumption" measured in kW. This is not the same as kWH which is energy consumption. It also says in the Second and Minute tab "Energy use in kW" which is not correct.
That if why you use the integration (rienman sum) integration. It takes snapshot information and converts to usage.
Looks like mounting the antenna is less convenient if you have a flush mount panel like I have. I hate to drill holes in the cover, it I see no other easy way to do it.
Do you not have knockouts on the side of the panel? Most ones I encountered do. But that is moistly North American ones.
@@ThisSmartHouse Read my comment again. There is one key word in it. 😁
Drill or flush? What is a flush mount panel?
@@ThisSmartHouse Flush. The panel is recessed into the wall such that the face of the panel is flush with the drywall. The knockouts thus just go into a finished wall cavity.
@@LTVoyager This is my question as well if the sides of the panel are behind drywall as in most houses how do you install the antenna?
I think the 200 amp CTs were connected backwards - load would be the panel not the meter
I followed the manual, everything is working. I may have mis-spoke.
You said it wrong, explained it wrong, and connected it wrong, per the manual. The mains power is flowing into the panel so the panel is the load and the arrow goes into the panel.
I just went back and watched it, yep I had it backward. When was reading I saw the "K" imprint toward the breaker. The diagram at the bottom right clarifies that is the arrow toward the breaker. I will add a note in a pinned comment. Thanks for pointing that out. It is strange that it is working fine, maybe because they both are backward.
What is the maximum Amperes allowed for measure before getting its wires melted ?
You mean the CTs? The main are 200A and the breaker ones are 50A. But the wires wouldn't melt because the current in the sensing wires is tiny.
@@ThisSmartHouse and isn't in danger of fire the thin wires in different colors (Black+Red) when consuming all the building power in the charge center ?
I guess it all depends. There are safety ratings (dictated by the national electrical code here in the US) for all wiring. Any short runs are going to be reduced probability of a fire due to the fact that they don't generate a lot of resistance.
What's your main concern?
@@ThisSmartHouse My main concern is about having installed my Emporia Vue 2 Gen, and get any of the colored wires (included in the kit) in fire risk when a lot of power is demanded by the building causing the main power lines feeding the building trigger the main termomagnetic breakers. They're are very thin, and in such situation they might be the get in fire, or melted causing a major safety issue.
That's what I am worried about.
houses are 1 phase
Houses here in the US are bi-phase. 240/120V AC.
@@ThisSmartHouse Residential electric service in the United States (120/240 Vac) is sometimes called two-phase service but this is NOT correct. It is only single-phase, since both line voltages are derived from a single phase of a distribution transformer with a center tapped neutral and are 180° out of phase with each other.
Steve you are technically correct. But both in practice and in technical terminology each half of the 240vac system is called a phase (as you said each half is 180 degrees out of phase).
I work in renewables and to get 240vac requires two sets of inverters. So we use the term bi-phase to call out the need for extra inverters when powering from our DC system.
Who would have thought electrical naming conventions would be confusing... 😂
@@ThisSmartHouse I get the confusion and glad you understand. It is only getting crazier as solar, wind, and EV charging and discharging all come into play then toss in batteries and dc. On top of that there is so much info which is incorrect and all these people who believe the only way to charge vehicles is to install 400 amp service when they barely ever use 100 amp of the existing 200 service they have. Then many promote all these “plastic/pvc boxes and in chicago they are not legal as everything must be in conduit and it also serves as the ground for the electric service.
Thanks for the reply
stop saying "go ahead"
Noted.
The only 15 amp breaker I have is a double pull. Can I hard wire in to that?
To source power? Yes. You just need somewhere to get 120 V.