After watching this and the other interview with Micah and his wife, I started my own Spanish channel exposing the abuse and manipulation in Spanish speaking churches. The “culture of covering “ turned elders into oppressors of the flock.
Who causes the division in the body of Christ isn’t the abuse victims who tell what happened, it’s the abusive leaders. They are the ones causing division.
And there are good leaders with good intentions, however they are either blinded or self-righteous, not humble enough not understanding church hurt enough, to see that sometimes them not wanting to talk about Church hurts and Spiritual abuse in the church or supporting ministries that do is also another layer of the problem😢
@@catherinegrace2366 True. Although most of this stuff would be taken care of if they just decided to be good human beings. Basic respect and basic right vs wrong. 😑
I want leaders in the Church that will admit when they went along with something that was wrong, when they find out it was wrong, and will then say so and go on the right way, rather than ignore things and sweep things under the carpet of time, and just go on with whatever is new.
The home and family, just like back in Israel all those years ago, is exactly how we are walking with the locals here in Africa. It's the only way, especially causee they can't even reead and write. The people here as simple as they are would say the same. The Kingdom and community is in the home, where real discipleship takes place. Among Them!
We are 74 and 80 years old and if recognized spiritual abuse in many of the churches we went to. We were marked as the enemy in the systems not So much by what we said. But they can tell who is a another leader who they don't like. And certainly won't help them to attain their calling. We won the battle and proceeding of the ministry to help other people come forth in their callings by supporting their vision with them. So my point is there has been an older generation recognize this and yet did things with it apostolic to help the body develop. A point of connection here is there is an underground movement that has been going on for over 30 years even your Gen x doesn't know about. That doesn't look anything like church the legalistic one that is. But has walked forward in power and the message of the Gospel. This underground ecclesia will be on the rise in this hour and they are over the age of 50. So what your not understanding is that Gen x is not the x of it all.. for some reason the older have not been speaking out as much like we have so the younger people think they're pioneering a whole new thing here by exposing it which isn't true. It's been exposed forever and ever and ever. The thing that's different about it is finally the church boards are dealing with it. In our years the ministry leaders were never repentant. One of our ministries was to turn a facility into a counseling center for pastors and leaders interdenominational. We are spirit-filled people and found that a shocking calling it first but then discovered why God was doing this. So we've been able to see behind the scenes of their personal lives and why even they feel abused. You're right the whole system is off track with appropriate manners to each other from the top down to the bottom I encourage you to keep stepping forward with your calling. But just know the message has been out there all the days of our life. We left the church system only to start walking out the true apostolic mission it looks like church of Acts. It's real it's great and it's very powerful for everyone involved not just one person the pastor.. Blessings to you just wanted to let you know you Gen x needs the generation before you who's experienced at continuing the journey beyond the abuse and for positive reasons..
Too bad this was never made known. If you're watching any of the "Leaving The Message" broadcasts, it exposes the false "generals of the faith" and false charismatic leaders all the way back, and many many people have suffered in terrible groups. Why wasn't this movement you speak of ever made known? Instead, we had Branham, Shepherdship, Word of Faith, etc.
Back in the day Pat Robertson was seeking the Baptism in the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues. He went to all the meetings and go to places. His son fell ill and he came home to pray for him. As he was praying for him, he began speaking in tongues. Holy Spirit was showing him that He is in the home
Please hard core vet the worship leaders that you let come in and write and collaborate and record.... my fear would be that people that have caused spiritual harm, like Bethel worship leaders, and the like would get their tentacles in your new project.... Bethel leadership and Bethel worship leaders are who brought such spiritual harm and confusion to my mind and heart.... they need to be kept away from tainting the new project.
True - the narcissistic abusive system of man (beast) is coming down and Yahshua's SEVEN Eyes of Fire is rising in our lives and hearts and minds and souls - loving YHWH first. and then loving neighbour as ourself. FOOT WASHING and HUMILITY returning to the House! Ezekiel 43:12 - YHWH's Law and Order, Yahshua, STANDS.
Separating the sheep from the goats! Keeping the people blind to evil is letting evil take over and win! Many "Christians" are being led astray and many will not be in heaven because they follow a man instead of Jesus as Lord!
I was just listening to a prophetic word on you tube about monitoring spirits, talking about how some people want to know our business all the time, what we are going to do next, trying to get us to agree with something they have, or to give us a "prophetic word" about something we have not been seeking. I think of what some have called "hall monitors", people who want to correct everybody all the time, people who want to be sure people are going only where they need to and are on time, or whatever. Yet, a pastor's ministry is about helping people walk the right way. I believe people should be loved and served, helped when they ask, and the best help is not in controlling them, but to provide some answers for questions they ask, or to help walk them through things reasonably and rationally, instead of warring with them to come into agreement with their agenda, or to come under their control. Do some get into pastoring because they like authority or control? I hope that's not why they wanted to become a pastor.
I suppose what it comes down to is, "You either trust us or you don't." but will they work with people a bit? Will they cooperate enough to convince us they are worthy of our trust? Does trust need to be earned?
"...using religion to control people..." I saw some old movies on reformation people, and on one there was a map of Europe and it said "The Holy Roman Empire" and I wondered about the vision of Daniel 2. Might this be the one part of iron and part of clay?
I don't want to be manipulated into believing that people falling down as coached to do so when hands are laid on them to receive the Holy Spirit is all of God. Nor do I want to be manipulated into believing that all the laughing is godly. Neither do I want to be judged as a legalist for saying so. I want the manifestations of tongues with interpretation and prophecy instead, by 2 or 3 every time we meet. I was at a convention last weekend and we had about 5 meetings. That could have been a dozen or so words of edification, with different tongues I could have heard, by God's design, instead of all the laughing and falling down. I believe if anyone can complete this: I have given..... And it makes a paragraph of edification by exhortation and comfort and fits the gospel so well there is nothing to argue about, I believe they can prophesy.
What will help bring us back to the fear of the Lord is the manifestations of the Spirit, the worship / utterance manifestations that are to be used in our meetings for edification. Can you imagine accepting the invitation to speak in tongues and interpret at some time during the worship service, and you speak in a tongue a bit, and then go into the interpretation, and when it's done, you and everyone else knows you were led by the Spirit of God in it, and then you.....well you do some sort of act with an imaginary sword or something, or whatever? How out of order! How carnal! How disgusting! Why? Because we were all just in the fear of the Lord as you gave that word of prophecy, that's why and church isn't over yet... But do you see why I say that these manifestations bring us into the fear of the Lord?
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After watching this and the other interview with Micah and his wife, I started my own Spanish channel exposing the abuse and manipulation in Spanish speaking churches. The “culture of covering “ turned elders into oppressors of the flock.
Thank you for getting the message out to Spanish speakers. ❤️
Who causes the division in the body of Christ isn’t the abuse victims who tell what happened, it’s the abusive leaders. They are the ones causing division.
Yes, exactly. They’re also held to a higher standard.
And there are good leaders with good intentions, however they are either blinded or self-righteous, not humble enough not understanding church hurt enough, to see that sometimes them not wanting to talk about Church hurts and Spiritual abuse in the church or supporting ministries that do is also another layer of the problem😢
@@catherinegrace2366 True. Although most of this stuff would be taken care of if they just decided to be good human beings. Basic respect and basic right vs wrong. 😑
You said it perfectly- it’s not causing division it is opening the eyes of many! Me included. The veil is being removed.
So true ! We need to look inward and connect with God and do our own research and not elevate leaders to this place of power and yes worship.
It’s also putting a stop to the abuser abusing others
I want leaders in the Church that will admit when they went along with something that was wrong, when they find out it was wrong, and will then say so and go on the right way, rather than ignore things and sweep things under the carpet of time, and just go on with whatever is new.
…and leave the ministry forever if sexual abuse, and possibly also in cases of emotional and other forms of abuse.
Talking is necessary when it comes to abuse.
Wow, one couple I love collaborating with another couple I love, had no idea you guys knew each other, what a blessing!! ❤️❤️
So true you guys!!!
Great episode
The home and family, just like back in Israel all those years ago, is exactly how we are walking with the locals here in Africa. It's the only way, especially causee they can't even reead and write. The people here as simple as they are would say the same. The Kingdom and community is in the home, where real discipleship takes place. Among Them!
Yep Min 5:00 The fear of the Lord and Priest hood reesponsibility of the believer!!!!!!
We are 74 and 80 years old and if recognized spiritual abuse in many of the churches we went to. We were marked as the enemy in the systems not So much by what we said. But they can tell who is a another leader who they don't like. And certainly won't help them to attain their calling. We won the battle and proceeding of the ministry to help other people come forth in their callings by supporting their vision with them. So my point is there has been an older generation recognize this and yet did things with it apostolic to help the body develop. A point of connection here is there is an underground movement that has been going on for over 30 years even your Gen x doesn't know about. That doesn't look anything like church the legalistic one that is. But has walked forward in power and the message of the Gospel. This underground ecclesia will be on the rise in this hour and they are over the age of 50. So what your not understanding is that Gen x is not the x of it all.. for some reason the older have not been speaking out as much like we have so the younger people think they're pioneering a whole new thing here by exposing it which isn't true. It's been exposed forever and ever and ever. The thing that's different about it is finally the church boards are dealing with it. In our years the ministry leaders were never repentant. One of our ministries was to turn a facility into a counseling center for pastors and leaders interdenominational. We are spirit-filled people and found that a shocking calling it first but then discovered why God was doing this. So we've been able to see behind the scenes of their personal lives and why even they feel abused. You're right the whole system is off track with appropriate manners to each other from the top down to the bottom
I encourage you to keep stepping forward with your calling. But just know the message has been out there all the days of our life. We left the church system only to start walking out the true apostolic mission it looks like church of Acts. It's real it's great and it's very powerful for everyone involved not just one person the pastor..
Blessings to you just wanted to let you know you Gen x needs the generation before you who's experienced at continuing the journey beyond the abuse and for positive reasons..
The oldest of Gen X turns 60 next year. 😉
Too bad this was never made known. If you're watching any of the "Leaving The Message" broadcasts, it exposes the false "generals of the faith" and false charismatic leaders all the way back, and many many people have suffered in terrible groups. Why wasn't this movement you speak of ever made known? Instead, we had Branham, Shepherdship, Word of Faith, etc.
Back in the day Pat Robertson was seeking the Baptism in the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues. He went to all the meetings and go to places. His son fell ill and he came home to pray for him. As he was praying for him, he began speaking in tongues. Holy Spirit was showing him that He is in the home
Please hard core vet the worship leaders that you let come in and write and collaborate and record.... my fear would be that people that have caused spiritual harm, like Bethel worship leaders, and the like would get their tentacles in your new project.... Bethel leadership and Bethel worship leaders are who brought such spiritual harm and confusion to my mind and heart.... they need to be kept away from tainting the new project.
Hey hey all the worshippers are people we are doing life with and that have testimonies on this subject 😊
I emphatically agree.
Excited about this film project!
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
True - the narcissistic abusive system of man (beast) is coming down and Yahshua's SEVEN Eyes of Fire is rising in our lives and hearts and minds and souls - loving YHWH first. and then loving neighbour as ourself. FOOT WASHING and HUMILITY returning to the House! Ezekiel 43:12 - YHWH's Law and Order, Yahshua, STANDS.
Amen!!
This is the EXPOSURE God’s prophets have spoken of for the past several years. They prophesied EXPOSURE not GOSSIP. This is NOT GOSSIP‼️
Separating the sheep from the goats! Keeping the people blind to evil is letting evil take over and win! Many "Christians" are being led astray and many will not be in heaven because they follow a man instead of Jesus as Lord!
When I think of spiritual abuse, listening here, what comes to mind is "...but every fool will be meddling.." Meddling is spiritual abuse, isn't it?
Agree
I was just listening to a prophetic word on you tube about monitoring spirits, talking about how some people want to know our business all the time, what we are going to do next, trying to get us to agree with something they have, or to give us a "prophetic word" about something we have not been seeking.
I think of what some have called "hall monitors", people who want to correct everybody all the time, people who want to be sure people are going only where they need to and are on time, or whatever.
Yet, a pastor's ministry is about helping people walk the right way.
I believe people should be loved and served, helped when they ask, and the best help is not in controlling them, but to provide some answers for questions they ask, or to help walk them through things reasonably and rationally, instead of warring with them to come into agreement with their agenda, or to come under their control.
Do some get into pastoring because they like authority or control? I hope that's not why they wanted to become a pastor.
I suppose what it comes down to is, "You either trust us or you don't." but will they work with people a bit? Will they cooperate enough to convince us they are worthy of our trust? Does trust need to be earned?
"...using religion to control people..." I saw some old movies on reformation people, and on one there was a map of Europe and it said "The Holy Roman Empire" and I wondered about the vision of Daniel 2. Might this be the one part of iron and part of clay?
what's the name of the people being interviewed on here? Ok found out Armando and Micah, just don't know anything about their background and bio
I don't want to be manipulated into believing that people falling down as coached to do so when hands are laid on them to receive the Holy Spirit is all of God. Nor do I want to be manipulated into believing that all the laughing is godly. Neither do I want to be judged as a legalist for saying so.
I want the manifestations of tongues with interpretation and prophecy instead, by 2 or 3 every time we meet. I was at a convention last weekend and we had about 5 meetings. That could have been a dozen or so words of edification, with different tongues I could have heard, by God's design, instead of all the laughing and falling down.
I believe if anyone can complete this: I have given.....
And it makes a paragraph of edification by exhortation and comfort and fits the gospel so well there is nothing to argue about, I believe they can prophesy.
What will help bring us back to the fear of the Lord is the manifestations of the Spirit, the worship / utterance manifestations that are to be used in our meetings for edification.
Can you imagine accepting the invitation to speak in tongues and interpret at some time during the worship service, and you speak in a tongue a bit, and then go into the interpretation, and when it's done, you and everyone else knows you were led by the Spirit of God in it, and then you.....well you do some sort of act with an imaginary sword or something, or whatever? How out of order! How carnal! How disgusting! Why? Because we were all just in the fear of the Lord as you gave that word of prophecy, that's why and church isn't over yet...
But do you see why I say that these manifestations bring us into the fear of the Lord?