Did George Lucas Ever Want Palpatine Back? | Star Wars Legends & Canon
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Talking about George's view of Emperor Palpatine, with both the Sequels & Dark Empire
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Can't believe large and notable youtubers would do such a thing
I hope noone makes such a mistake
The notorious issue of Lucas is that he often changes his mind and will go back on his original thoughts. For example, he detailed that EU was part of his vision in both the opening excerpt of Splinter in the Mind's Eye and The Thrawn Trilogy. He even expressed similar sentiments in interviews regarding the Clone Wars Micro-Series. However, he changed his mind and considered (at least according to Dave Filoni, take that as you will) only the movies and TCW as his own 'canon' in the last several years.
So while he might've approved Palpatine's return back in the 90's, he's likely changed his mind since then.
I think trying to extrapolate Lucas' relationship with Splinter to anything representing his relationship with the rest of the EU is going to take you down the wrong roads. Splinter was made in a very different context from the rest of the EU, and was essentially a financial fallback for George in a way that other books very much were not, and so had a lot more direct input from him (largely in the vein of "make this cheaper to turn into a movie"). I have several more videos planned in this vein, though.
This is also why I make such an important distinction between him approving of things and him not considering them part of his story. That can exist at the same time, and that isn't something where his mind has changed.
@@CoreysDatapad That is true in regards to Splinter of the Mind's Eye, but doesn't gel with what we've seen him comment on elsewhere.
I do agree that the EU wasn't Lucas's vision, but only in the "if I had written it myself this isn't how I would have done it" kind of way. Rather than the "this was never Canon" kind of way that a lot of people seem to want to take it. I mean, other than changing his mind from details he supposedly gave to the likes of Timothy Zahn regarding the nature of the Clone Wars era when he actually sat down to write the Prequels, Lucas never seemed to go out of his way to contradict the Old EU.
And I know that George Lucas made sure Disney had to keep TCW, but I'm not sure he ever viewed it as more canonical to him than anything else the Old EU did. From what I've pieced together from various featurettes, he doesn't seem to have been as involved with TCW as popular perception makes him out to be. And he was way more involved with other Old EU projects than a lot of people say, too. Basically, from a creative standpoint, I'm not sure TCW and Filoni are as special as a lot of people like to say.
@@CoreysDatapad My point of including Splinter was to illustrate his opinion early on, which is also why I included the Thrawn Trilogy and then the Micro-Series. It's after this point that he decided to go his own way, largely I think because he was able to make TCW more his own than other projects.
So again, he changed his opinion on the subject, and this was far more recent than you may think.
Tcw was NEVER Lucas canon. It has too many contridictions and the official canon system on the star wars website said it was in t canon,and not Lucas canon
@@Tracer_Krieg officially the old eu was canon to George Lucas. But he considered it a SEPERATE canon from his. Like how James bond has multible canons. One for each bond,star wars has multible canon. Disney canon,Lucas canon,legends canon (different then eu because eu was multible canon s officially and not one big canon) t canon,c canon,s canon and n canon,which wasn't canon it stood for non canon. In the classification system George Lucas made official for the website.
I think that are three main timelines in Star Wars:
Old EU (Legends)
New EU (Canon)
George Lucas EU (Clone Wars and the 6 movies)
Honestly, that really might be the only way to settle the problem. New EU obviously ignores the Old EU, but GLEU (mainly TCW) also contradicts the hell out of the Old EU and even now parts of the New one. So, splitting them up really might be the only to satisfy everyone.
J Sailer Thats how Ive always viewed it. In my own head canon, in Georges version Luke when on to have a successful Jedi Order and nothing bad ever happened. The end.
I agree, I've been trying to get people to think of it that way for a while. Espically those who say legends was never canon because it was not george's vision
New EU = Disney fanfiction
@@Tracer_Krieg I'm so happy to see someone else calling out TCW and Dave "The Continuity Breaker" Filoni. As much as I like the show, it had all the finesse of a wrecking ball, and would have been a lot better if it hadn't contradicted and instead played off of the plot points in the Old EU.
And I'm not sure exactly how canonical Lucas saw TCW to his version of Star Wars. From what I've seen from featurettes, he wasn't nearly as involved as popular perception makes him out to be. He seemed to be as involved with the micro-series as he was TCW.
That's why I propose four timelines:
Core Lucas (OT and PT)
Lucas+ (Core Lucas and TCW)
The Old EU (Core Lucas, Legends, and TCW as part of S-Canon)
Disney Canon (Lucas+ and everything created after the Great Reset in April 2014 other than SWTOR Expansions)
I'd love to see you do videos about the overall development of the EU from the wacky Marvel years of 77-90 to the Dark Horse/Bantam Era of 1990-2000, to the Del Ray NJO era of 1999-2005 and then the Post NJO era with TCW 2008 coming into mix retconning the Darkhorse stuff and the final years of the EU in general before the reboot. Star Wars needs a good history of the EU i think.
Hi Corey, I think one thing you overlooked is that Lucas by all accounts really liked the Dark Empire comics. He even gave copies of the comic out as Christmas presents at Lucasfilm holiday parties. Of course, that doesn't mean Dark Empire necessarily represented his canonical view of what happened after ROTJ, but it's suggestive. He certainly seemed to like DE more than Zahn's Heir to the Empire.
George was a big comic guy, but him liking it is very different from him either directly contributing or considering it part of his vision/canon.
@@CoreysDatapad Sure, as I said in my comment Lucas' liking it doesn't make it part of his vision by any means. But it's still a relevant data point. His liking it means it's somewhat - even if only marginally - closer to what he'd want/envision for a post-ROTJ sequel. Certainly more so than Heir to the Empire.
Also, the authors of DE did have a chance to ask Lucas questions, and they originally proposed bringing Vader back. Lucas shot down that idea, but approved bringing the emperor instead (Veitch hasn't been 100% clear on this point, but has in some interviews suggested Lucas was the one to propose bringing Palpatine back). So Dark Empire wasn't 100% free of Lucasian influence. Again, that doesn't make it his vision, but it's also not without his input.
GOOD QUESTION
FOR ANOTHER TIME
It wasn't just the Prequels, OT, and 2008 TCW that were apart of "his vision" though. You're leaving out his extensive contribution to the Ewok movies and shows, which far outstrips even his 2008 TCW contributions by a parsec. How much George worked on and contributed directly to the creation of those Ewok movies could be a video in itself.
Indeed. Lucas had about as much involvement with Droids and Ewok Adventures as he did TCW, but those sure as hell ain't getting counted as 'his' canon.
@@Tracer_Krieg tcw was officially said to be t canon,not g canon. That's on the star wars website pre Disney and approved by Lucas so he wanted us to know tcw isn't in his canon
@@Tracer_Krieg I will always consider Droids canon in my heart. I hold out hope that great characters like Kybo Ren and Mungo Baobab will be recanonized in some future novel or TV show.
4:57 I love that panel. I never really understood why a creator's approval makes something good, seems there is more worship over creators then appreciation and proper evaluations of the creations themselves.
Oh another video you could do is what from Luca’s treatments from his ST made it into the one we have or what evolved from them. Like Darth Talon and what she could have evolved into when the final ST product came out
I'm not a fan of uncle palpy coming back but dark empire did it better...and what bothers me is that they get rid of the eu then people and journalists just shit on it for years then Disney basically just mashes dark empire and end game together. More legends plz either way lol
Yes I love these out of universe production insights!
Corey, out of curiosity, have you seen CaptainFordo's videos on the subject of TCW vs Legends, and George's involvement in both?
I just looked into it thanks to this post. Wow, I learned a lot from that. Thanks for mentioning it!
Keep up the good videos Corey
*"The G/C/S-level canon stuff is a construct specifically for the Holocron.* Non-Holocron users would have no idea what this stuff even means. and I would say most of the people who use the Holocron don't use the field, instead looking specifically to the source of the material. *Individual entries are not broken down by canon level."*
~ Leland Chee 2005
"That was one of my mandates, when I began the spin off publishing program it was a sacrosanct rule that everything had to relate to each other, be consistent with each other and be consistent with *the movies, 'which were canon.'*
*We were pretty religious about doing that, *our biggest problem was a guy named George Lucas* , because he didn't buy into the spin off *fiction and the game program and all the 'alternate universe' we were creating."* ..
Honestly, I'd like you to talk about George's view on the Shadow of the Empire multimedia project.
"TVGuide: Yet novelists have written "Star Wars" sequels using the same characters and extending their stories.
*"Oh, sure. They're done outside my little universe."*
~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, November 2001 - TV Guide interview
Good point Corey
I'd like to see a video about what the role of senators was in the Republic, Empire and New Republic and if it is different in canon vs legends
*"They’re there to be enjoyed as unofficial Legends. But, as Zahn also points out, the Expanded Universe wasn’t really ever official regardless of what the fans thought."*
Timothy Zahn, 2017
Stupendous video, I am intrigued by George Lucas’ position on a lot of things!
I think this does a good job of bridging what Lucas would and would not approve in the EU with his original vision for the Star Wars saga.
I would also note that Palpatine baiting Luke isn't really that different from when he baits Anakin in Episode 3, which under Legends would have been well before he had Byss up and running. Palpatine is clearly comfortable putting himself in harm's way to achieve his preferred outcomes. For all we know he could have just blasted Luke back with Force lightning had Vader not intervened, going back to how comfortable he is at playing possum.
*“Those of us writing the EU were always told, all along, from the very beginning* (have I stressed that strongly enough?), *“Only the Movies are Canon.”* Sure, it was disappointing.”
~ Kathy Tyers, EU author [Truce at Bakura, Balance Point] Interview, 2018
starwarsinterviews.com/various/authors/kathy-tyers-author/
Video Suggestion they say George was not really a fan of the yuuzhan vong
he was helping to write new jedi order, how it can be??? He was consulting njo writers about the plot! He made Jacen a hero instead of Anakin
@@goodmind4940 they say,
Need video that looking into George's involvement
He wasn't helping to write them, he gave very high-level comments ruling out Jacen's death so Anakin would get killed off and not redo OG Anakin's story. And that only really happened right as Star By Star was about to be written.
TFN: It’s well know by now that authors and writers of other Star Wars projects are often given creative ‘boundaries.’ Assuming this is the case for the new Clone Wars series, were there any surprises to you in terms of what wasn’t off-limits? Henry: *"George gave Dave and I a lot of freedom and he didn’t want us to be limited by what the EU had established."*
~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCWs/ EU Author TCW TFN Interview 2008
Possible content you could do is may do a series of videos exploring every year after the battle of endor until maybe the end of the yuuzhan vong war. Like videos devoted to 5 ABY, 6 ABY, 7 ABY etc. You do a good job of explaining SW content from that era.
I've been planning an overall timeline video, but breaking it down year-by-year like this could definitely be cool.
Good video
Good Luck on the move.
*We wanted it to be one universe* , we felt strongly that that's what it needed to be, *but George as the filmmaker didn't want to be beholden to somebody else's creative vision."* ~ Howard Roffman, President of Lucas Licensing, in charge of the EU - TV Interview - [12:40 mark] - ruclips.net/video/NMKHgwH-gY4/видео.html
Imma make this clear for people. The old eu was canon to George,but it was a SEPERATE canon from his own. One he loved but viewed as a different universe. Also the clone wars was NOT a part of his canon man. He said very clearly it was non canon to his canon. It was on the canon system. Tcw was t canon,a different canon from g canon,which is the George Lucas canon.
Think like how Craig and brosnan are two different bond canons
The hierarchy was not created by George, and Leland Chee even says he had very little contact with George related to it. Where exactly does he say it's not part of his canon? We have several quotes where he does clearly say it is. For example:
"This is Star Wars, and I don’t make a distinction between [The Clone Wars] series and the films.”
But, for some reason, it it of VITAL IMPORTANCE that George be as attached to the Expanded Universe as possible, and they simultaneously try to remove any attachment between him and TCW.
What book are you reviewing on tapcaf next time? I missed the last one
We're doing Alphabet Squadron Shadow Fall next week, with Star Wars Explained
Ok. Thanks!
@@CoreysDatapad Ohh I've always wanted to see you team up with Alex, will Echs also be joining you two, or it just you and Alex. Either way I look forward to the collaboration.
Hated the SEQUEL'S...wasn't a huge fan of the Dark EMPIRE series either.
The same. The idea of Palpatine returning is not bad... But never well executed. But Dark Empire was a lot better than TROS.
*"I didn't have any direct contact with George about Star Wars. - I would see some notes based on the interviews or the meetings. But I did not have direct contact with George about Star Wars continuity."*
~ Leland Chee 2018
Disney's Star Wars set out to destroy all the original characters from the original trilogy to push their agenda. Han Solo died a deadbeat dad killed by his own son. Luke was a weak pacifist coward. Bringing Palpatine back erased what Vader/Anakin did by ultimately destroying Palpatine. Princess Leia became an independent woman, no longer needing Han and Han no longer having her. In the original trilogy, Han and Leia completed each other which was great. Everything was given to this female character, Rey, who could do nothing wrong and displayed no weakness, and saved Everything. God, I just hope the rumors are true and they rewrite the sequels and do away with 7, 8, and 9.
"There's this notion that everything changed when everything became *Legends.* And I can see why people think that. But, you know, *having worked with George I can tell you that it was always very clear -- and he made it very clear -- that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon. That was it."*
Dave Filoni interview on 'The Star Wars show' [41.40 mark]- ruclips.net/video/hcNXPNXOv2A/видео.html
"Q: What do you think of the *Expanded Universe of books?*
A: *"The books are in a different universe.* I've not read any of them, and I told them when they started writing I wouldn't read any of them and I blocked out certain periods."
~ George Lucas 2003
🤔 . . . Answer this AFTER your move, I want you to collect & write down your thoughts. WHAT would your Ultimate MMORPG? Would there be any Special Hardware/Software requirements? What elements would you borrow from what games? And more…
Hey we'll find out what he wants when Lucas comes to work for Disney after Kathleen Kennedy is fired and the sequels are removed from ca-- 😆 Okay I can't finish typing that with a straight face.
I find it Odd that people seem to think that legands was George’s vision he him self has said many times he didn’t like the legands continuity it wasn’t what he would’ve done but he let then do it because he felt it was important to give that to fans lucas film have said it as well many times hell lucasfilm even said that clone wars wasn’t realy canon once in an interview I saw they said it’s canon buts not George’s canon or somthing like that George only came to consider it as canon later on but as you said it’s completely irrelevant wether something’s good or bad doesn’t hinge on wether George liked it or approved it or it was his vision or not
*"Dave Filoni is better equipped to relay Lucas’ true feelings about the EU."*
~ Leland Chee
Disagree. Disagree.
....With what?
@@CoreysDatapad I think he's ordering you to disagree. Or maybe he's just programmed to hate everything that has to do with new Star Wars and he's like a Dalek only being able to say "exterminate" over and over again.
George wanted to create jar jar. So I don't think what he wanted is relevant.
What are you talking about?!
i really dont like the legends new republic they feel way too much like the empire 2 electric boogaloo
In what way exactly?
@@Tracer_Krieg mainly just the way it kept constantly arming it'self and by the time it collasped it was seen very dictaorial by the galaxy my point is the legends new republic was far too war hungry and milateristic
Alfie Ingrouille Well it make sense to have authority over a galaxy you need strong military also that galaxy has been in decades of war so they wouldn’t straight away get rid of it’s military. And it never really collapsed it just joined The Galactic Federation but yes after that it became more dictatorial
@@TJ-nz8oc i agree with you completely but i still just think the new republic should have calmed down with it's miltary
No...