I got a job flying king airs at 260 hours TT. Then started flying Lear jets at 1100TT. At 1500 TT I got my ATP and fly a 767 all over world. Glad that I took a chance and didn’t instruct. Opened so many doors so early in my career.
Wow! I'm a CFI here in New Zealand, and jobs flying the King Air require an ATP and over 1,000 hour's TT. Super jealous of the opportunities available over there.
I skipped being a CFI. Wish I didn’t though. I think it would make me a better pilot today. Being able to see mistakes happen before they begin is key. IMHO
Positives and negatives to everything. Our main goal is to provide options to get people through their training and time building phase as quickly and cost efficiently as possible. The skipping of being a CFI isn't for everyone, but totally doable.
I did 3 years on floats, Cessnas, DH Beaver, Noorduyn Norseman and Beech 18. That is where I really learned to fly and make decisions. Later went on to fly various Airbus and Boeing aircraft before I retired and flew Gulfstream and Globals. The foundation for my career was those first 3 years. Whatever you decide has to be the right thing for you. Your career will look after itself with the right work ethic and attitude.
Best thing I did after 1100 dual given was the caravan job I got. I flew over 250 actual instrument hours in less than a year. Shooting approaches in minimums, dealing with “real” (Not simulated ifr) weather, icing condition, real decision making is some of the things you cannot get from any cfi job. Yes, cfi is a good start but as soon as you get your 1200 hrs look for something closer to the airline world for the last 300hrs before you hit the atp minimums and move on to the airlines.
Never got my CFI or a college degree. I flew traffic watch and ferried planes for a sales company along with working line service pumping gas at a FBO. Also made connections at the FBO. Got hired at a regional with about 900TT/100 MEL. Current job is 747-400 CA for a cargo airline. It can be done.
Jack's question applies to me so much. 18 years ago I was offered a teacher aide position in a preschool, and through that decided to stay with teaching because I couldn't afford flight school. Flying was always in the back of my mind and recently I was finally able to start pursuing it. Funny thing is, having taught little kids for 18 years, I already have the communication, patience and I don't panic in a real emergency. I could probably be a very good CFI, I just can't see myself doing it. I want to LEAVE teaching, not go from teaching to teaching. At this point my main goal is to accumulate hours through my PPL and then CPL training, get my instrument and transport certificate, then get into something like aerial tours, and/or hauling cargo. I've also looked into joining aviation clubs where I would be able to build hours, and also have been working on connecting with pilots who would like to share hours.
I'm the Chief pilot of a 91/135/121 operator (Gulfstream & Boeing). From a corporate standpoint, I know CFI's will know how to deal with a variety of personalities which is critical to charter operations and dealing with owners. Airlines? Not so much: close the door and fly the trip. I know box runners will have EXCELLENT IFR skills as they are flying in weather all the time in older equipment- but they will need to learn to work as a crew. This is an unprecedented time for less experienced pilots affording opportunities to advanced equipment. Best of luck.
So would you recommend i get my CFI/CFII even if i never intend be an instructor? I was leaning towards the piplene/survey route. As a fromer truck driver i can handle the long mg hrs each day with no issues at all.
@@dannycnoble it's a lot of work to never use it. While there is useful information, the real value to the CFI is the OJT learning to deal with a variety of personalities in a high pressure telephone-booth sized space.
I see a lot of rotating survey outfits that run twins. Inland definitely. A lot of it is geographic or insurance related. The twins have more space for gear and operators and also keep exhaust off the camera glass without the need for special exhaust extenders. Aztecs and the like. Slow but super stable.
This helps a lot because I don’t want to be a CFI for money purposes. I went to ATP and had to leave them and it left me in severe debt. So commercial license only for me
@@joshua_jfly I left because you can not carry a job when you’re in their school and you’re basically on an assembly line there. Their teaching wasn’t great. Seemed to only want your money
What they don’t tell you is most of these jobs require you to have at least 400 hours and if you’re just getting you CPL and your close to 250 you still have to invest another 150 hours at least
@@nyrubin double II barely costs anything because there’s really not that many requirements you have to fill on top of that and it’s fairly easy checkride
I just seen a job posting for Air Canada flying Q400s, minimum hours needed was 250 plus 100 PIC. That's low hours needed but it makes it appealing and gives people hope that you can do it , never give up everyone, only dream and then achieve.
This podcast is 2 years old. However, I still think that it is still implied till this day. Thank you so much for the question and answers! I, myself, am a non-native speaker. I have been so interested in learning to become an Airlines pilot. However, the flight hours requirement even for regional airlines is quite difficult for me because I don't have that teaching abilities. Also, as a non-native speaker I cannot speak as fluently. This is what sets me back as well as the cost.
@@technicalactivityI worked overtime and built time when I wasn't tired, burned out, and when the bank account balance looked good. Had to contend with people crashing the planes as well. Finally made it to 500TT many many years later.
I have been watching your videos and giving a lot of helpful information. Thanks for doing that. I am in Las Angeles and really serious about getting my license. However, I was thinking the same, not getting CFI or CFII because I know I am not that type of person to teach someone. I think it is saving time and money too. I also have a question is about What type of instructor i should work with a young man who follows to get APL or an old man who has already achieved his goal? Sometimes I am thinking a young person who want to achive his goal might not be good for teaching because they need hours to be Airplane pilot.
Is there value in earning a CFI and CFII if I don’t intend to be an instructor? I’m not interested in airlines… would rather eventually work corporate or for a private owner. I’d love to work early in my career flying a Pilatus PC-12 or King Air before moving on.
There's no pilot shortage; there are LOTS of people willing to do the job, and the barrier to entry is high (and rightfully so). I've met many people willing to fly for a living but it was just really difficult/impossible for them to build time or earn enough $$ to build time.
Absolutely. My only minor disagreement is that the standards are unnecessarily high. The 1500hr rule was a knee jerk reaction by Congress to a crash in which the pilots had like 40,000hrs each. Even Pt 135 minimums are out of reach for most people unless they're willing to take on a mountain of debt (which was perhaps Congress' true motivation).
That is great James! Thanks for sharing. That's exactly what we need on this channel. Everyone needs encouragement. Good luck to you and the rest of your career!
Hey thanks for the great video. Any thoughts on being a factory/aircraft delivery pilot for Textron or Piper? Do you think you could build hours quickly at those jobs?
Im 49 and i asked the medical examiner that very question. He said he has people in their 50s with. No hrs coming thru. Even if you get all your rwtings and hrs by 55 you still have 10 good yrs of flying. He recommended part 62 flight school this way i can keep my current job. It is way chraper and he emphasized to make sure the school is out side the bravo. My very 1st ground school lesson was in my medical examiners offcie. Cause he went over air space told me about skyvetor and sure enough i found a great school right on the edge of the bravo in dallas. While ATP in the bravo wants 125k and i have to quit my job. The school i am at lets me keep my job and is only charging 65k. No brainer right there.
It's wonderful that this individual was able to find that position at commercial minimums...however, it's is extremely rare...and most of the time, you need to know someone and be well connected. Realistically, being a cfi can assure you consistent flight time for most individuals...however, everyone doesn't want to teach. This is a critical time for professional pilots in their careers and its takes alot of patience to be able to wait for those opportunities. Right now, I'm over 500 total doing flight tours. I was very fortunate to even get that position to build time. I'm still looking to get my CFI initial.., however, I'm still waiting to hear back from some part 135 operations
For everyone commenting that you don’t need a degree or cfi/cfii/Mei… it’s True, many airlines or 91/135 ops do not require a college degree currently or cfi experience, though it will make a difference. The difference will be in pay and safety. A degree will net you more money and the ability to be a captain(sooner/or is required in some cases). Being a CfI will make you a safer pilot and help you better understand human psychology. You will be a better person because of it, you will mesh better in a multi-crew (CRM) environment, and most importantly… a better leader. Instructing could hold you back in the sense of a career path, so do what you like! Many airlines love to see CFI experience AND 91/135 experience prior to entering the 121 world.
Hey guys I am planning to start my ppl and hopefully make a living out of it. But I have a reckless driving on my drivers license back in 2019 and I was wondering if that would be a problem.
Considering pursuing and understand the stated demand for pilots over the next decade however: Won’t AI take over the jobs like airplane surveillance and cargo delivery? Like soon… thinking drones
Congrats to you two for being a voice of unreason. I don't have a choice at all it's dominated by YTs for a reason. They are the only ones who can afford their training. It's becoming racist to offer non whites any support in the USA.
@@stevenjohnson891 I don't disagree with you (more or less on verbiage). It is a white dominated industry. I am a black male and I don't come from any kind of money. But being a pilot was my goal so I did what I had to do to make it happen (loans). Luckily I have the support of my single mother so I can live rent free and not everyone has that luxury but one person's struggle is not the others. Don't worry about how others got there, just go and get yours.
I beg to differ. I’d rather build hour’s actually flying a plane not sitting passenger the whole time. There is value in teaching but also know that you could also spend those hours doing what YOU want to do not the student. You can practice more on what you need.
Oh please. The freight dog has much experience flying at night, using wx radar to avoid TRWs, and cycling boots and praying that the vacuum pumps hold up to keep the iceman at bay. The typical CFI? Not so much.
I got a job flying king airs at 260 hours TT. Then started flying Lear jets at 1100TT. At 1500 TT I got my ATP and fly a 767 all over world. Glad that I took a chance and didn’t instruct. Opened so many doors so early in my career.
Were you able to get that job through a connection you had or is there a company that hires at around 260 TT?
@@JakeGordonFilms14 I wanna know too
Please let us know how you did bro, also have 280 hours
It’s all about who you know not what you know.
Wow! I'm a CFI here in New Zealand, and jobs flying the King Air require an ATP and over 1,000 hour's TT. Super jealous of the opportunities available over there.
I skipped being a CFI. Wish I didn’t though. I think it would make me a better pilot today. Being able to see mistakes happen before they begin is key. IMHO
Positives and negatives to everything. Our main goal is to provide options to get people through their training and time building phase as quickly and cost efficiently as possible. The skipping of being a CFI isn't for everyone, but totally doable.
Me: Amazed that pilots can safely take off and land in a multi hundred ton aircraft.
Pilots: amazed by an audio recording.
Thanks for the comment.
I did 3 years on floats, Cessnas, DH Beaver, Noorduyn Norseman and Beech 18. That is where I really learned to fly and make decisions. Later went on to fly various Airbus and Boeing aircraft before I retired and flew Gulfstream and Globals. The foundation for my career was those first 3 years. Whatever you decide has to be the right thing for you. Your career will look after itself with the right work ethic and attitude.
When you teach, you really learn.
Please do... there are so many bad CFIs we're getting a blind creating the blind situation. Lets break that cycle... fly cargo
Best thing I did after 1100 dual given was the caravan job I got. I flew over 250 actual instrument hours in less than a year. Shooting approaches in minimums, dealing with “real” (Not simulated ifr) weather, icing condition, real decision making is some of the things you cannot get from any cfi job. Yes, cfi is a good start but as soon as you get your 1200 hrs look for something closer to the airline world for the last 300hrs before you hit the atp minimums and move on to the airlines.
Never got my CFI or a college degree. I flew traffic watch and ferried planes for a sales company along with working line service pumping gas at a FBO. Also made connections at the FBO. Got hired at a regional with about 900TT/100 MEL. Current job is 747-400 CA for a cargo airline. It can be done.
how long did it take?
Awesome Sean!! Thanks for the comment.
@@hakimchakir8750 about 6 years. I worked two jobs while I was working on my ratings and hours.
@@hakimchakir8750More like, WHEN did you get hired at a regional with 900TT?
@@reubenmorris487 probably before the 1500 hours rule
Jack's question applies to me so much. 18 years ago I was offered a teacher aide position in a preschool, and through that decided to stay with teaching because I couldn't afford flight school. Flying was always in the back of my mind and recently I was finally able to start pursuing it. Funny thing is, having taught little kids for 18 years, I already have the communication, patience and I don't panic in a real emergency. I could probably be a very good CFI, I just can't see myself doing it. I want to LEAVE teaching, not go from teaching to teaching.
At this point my main goal is to accumulate hours through my PPL and then CPL training, get my instrument and transport certificate, then get into something like aerial tours, and/or hauling cargo. I've also looked into joining aviation clubs where I would be able to build hours, and also have been working on connecting with pilots who would like to share hours.
I'm the Chief pilot of a 91/135/121 operator (Gulfstream & Boeing). From a corporate standpoint, I know CFI's will know how to deal with a variety of personalities which is critical to charter operations and dealing with owners. Airlines? Not so much: close the door and fly the trip. I know box runners will have EXCELLENT IFR skills as they are flying in weather all the time in older equipment- but they will need to learn to work as a crew. This is an unprecedented time for less experienced pilots affording opportunities to advanced equipment. Best of luck.
Thanks for the comment!! Great insight!
So would you recommend i get my CFI/CFII even if i never intend be an instructor? I was leaning towards the piplene/survey route. As a fromer truck driver i can handle the long mg hrs each day with no issues at all.
@@dannycnoble it's a lot of work to never use it. While there is useful information, the real value to the CFI is the OJT learning to deal with a variety of personalities in a high pressure telephone-booth sized space.
I see a lot of rotating survey outfits that run twins. Inland definitely. A lot of it is geographic or insurance related. The twins have more space for gear and operators and also keep exhaust off the camera glass without the need for special exhaust extenders. Aztecs and the like. Slow but super stable.
This helps a lot because I don’t want to be a CFI for money purposes. I went to ATP and had to leave them and it left me in severe debt. So commercial license only for me
Shoot for CMEL it’ll open more doors and it’s probably one of the cheapest add-ons/ratings
Considering doing atp may I ask why you left?
@@joshua_jfly I left because you can not carry a job when you’re in their school and you’re basically on an assembly line there. Their teaching wasn’t great. Seemed to only want your money
@@Hava_flylife may be a little personal but which state did you take classes? I’ve heard different reviews like yours from other locations.
@@joshua_jfly Florida
What they don’t tell you is most of these jobs require you to have at least 400 hours and if you’re just getting you CPL and your close to 250 you still have to invest another 150 hours at least
How much does it cost to get ur CFI ratings? Vs renting a 150 at 125hr x 100hr 12,500
@@nyrubin i spent about 4.5k
@@V1rot8_Bryan wow that’s pretty sweet, you knew a two year to endorse you? And did you spend another 4.5k for double i?
@@nyrubin double II barely costs anything because there’s really not that many requirements you have to fill on top of that and it’s fairly easy checkride
I just seen a job posting for Air Canada flying Q400s, minimum hours needed was 250 plus 100 PIC. That's low hours needed but it makes it appealing and gives people hope that you can do it , never give up everyone, only dream and then achieve.
Can Americans get a job there or is there some additional steps required for Americans?
This podcast is 2 years old. However, I still think that it is still implied till this day. Thank you so much for the question and answers!
I, myself, am a non-native speaker. I have been so interested in learning to become an Airlines pilot. However, the flight hours requirement even for regional airlines is quite difficult for me because I don't have that teaching abilities. Also, as a non-native speaker I cannot speak as fluently. This is what sets me back as well as the cost.
Thanks for listening
i quit after my instrument rating in 2015 because it was too expensive, and inflation is terrible today. It is certainly tough if you aren't rich!!
Some flight schools have ESL classes for international students.
@@technicalactivityI worked overtime and built time when I wasn't tired, burned out, and when the bank account balance looked good. Had to contend with people crashing the planes as well. Finally made it to 500TT many many years later.
I have been watching your videos and giving a lot of helpful information. Thanks for doing that. I am in Las Angeles and really serious about getting my license. However, I was thinking the same, not getting CFI or CFII because I know I am not that type of person to teach someone. I think it is saving time and money too. I also have a question is about What type of instructor i should work with a young man who follows to get APL or an old man who has already achieved his goal? Sometimes I am thinking a young person who want to achive his goal might not be good for teaching because they need hours to be Airplane pilot.
Is there value in earning a CFI and CFII if I don’t intend to be an instructor? I’m not interested in airlines… would rather eventually work corporate or for a private owner. I’d love to work early in my career flying a Pilatus PC-12 or King Air before moving on.
100% i have personally not gotten jobs simply because i didnt have my CFI, even just having it and never using it does something for insurance
There's no pilot shortage; there are LOTS of people willing to do the job, and the barrier to entry is high (and rightfully so). I've met many people willing to fly for a living but it was just really difficult/impossible for them to build time or earn enough $$ to build time.
Absolutely. My only minor disagreement is that the standards are unnecessarily high. The 1500hr rule was a knee jerk reaction by Congress to a crash in which the pilots had like 40,000hrs each. Even Pt 135 minimums are out of reach for most people unless they're willing to take on a mountain of debt (which was perhaps Congress' true motivation).
I have my ATP and never got my CFI. I have over 12,000 flight hours.
That is great James! Thanks for sharing. That's exactly what we need on this channel. Everyone needs encouragement. Good luck to you and the rest of your career!
I would get my cfi if I had the money for it. I keep applying to all the pipeline and survey jobs but I can't get a response.
Being a flight instructor is high risk because if your student screws up on a solo, you are held liable, they dont tell you that.
Great video. Iive in texas so i will look into pipleine or the survey route. I, too, do not want to teach.
Will the airlines care whether I trained at a part 61 or part 141 flight school?
Not really
Hey thanks for the great video. Any thoughts on being a factory/aircraft delivery pilot for Textron or Piper? Do you think you could build hours quickly at those jobs?
This was a great question!
Is the book available in audible
I just got my commercial with 160 TT what recommendation does anyone have to skip cfi
Is it to late to start training at 37yrs old?
Not at all I know a lot of guys in there 40s that started flying
Im 49 and i asked the medical examiner that very question. He said he has people in their 50s with. No hrs coming thru. Even if you get all your rwtings and hrs by 55 you still have 10 good yrs of flying. He recommended part 62 flight school this way i can keep my current job. It is way chraper and he emphasized to make sure the school is out side the bravo. My very 1st ground school lesson was in my medical examiners offcie. Cause he went over air space told me about skyvetor and sure enough i found a great school right on the edge of the bravo in dallas. While ATP in the bravo wants 125k and i have to quit my job. The school i am at lets me keep my job and is only charging 65k. No brainer right there.
It's wonderful that this individual was able to find that position at commercial minimums...however, it's is extremely rare...and most of the time, you need to know someone and be well connected. Realistically, being a cfi can assure you consistent flight time for most individuals...however, everyone doesn't want to teach. This is a critical time for professional pilots in their careers and its takes alot of patience to be able to wait for those opportunities.
Right now, I'm over 500 total doing flight tours. I was very fortunate to even get that position to build time. I'm still looking to get my CFI initial.., however, I'm still waiting to hear back from some part 135 operations
Thanks for the response!
To be an airline pilot, what licences do I need?
For everyone commenting that you don’t need a degree or cfi/cfii/Mei… it’s True, many airlines or 91/135 ops do not require a college degree currently or cfi experience, though it will make a difference. The difference will be in pay and safety. A degree will net you more money and the ability to be a captain(sooner/or is required in some cases). Being a CfI will make you a safer pilot and help you better understand human psychology. You will be a better person because of it, you will mesh better in a multi-crew (CRM) environment, and most importantly… a better leader. Instructing could hold you back in the sense of a career path, so do what you like! Many airlines love to see CFI experience AND 91/135 experience prior to entering the 121 world.
What are some great cities to do cargo flights? is Miami a good market?
Not unless you speak flawless english
@@brantd4670 that’s every aviation job ever
They destroyed my dream of being a airline pilot with the medical mandates. Guess I'll just be private forever...
Not sure if this will help you but call your local FSDO for whats called a SODA or another one to ask about is a Special Issuance.
@Urban Odyssey meh, I'm not fighting these idiots. If they don't want a good pilot because of some half baked mandates, they don't deserve me.
@@peterharrell7305 fair enough man. I see the problem. Best of luck to you though and your situation you're put in with this.
@Urban Odyssey it is what it is. I just hope the passengers don't have to pay the toll for the industries' mistakes.
What went wrong??
Hey guys I am planning to start my ppl and hopefully make a living out of it. But I have a reckless driving on my drivers license back in 2019 and I was wondering if that would be a problem.
youre definitely gonna have to jump through some hoops with the FAA bc of that... it might be a bit of a process but I think it'll work out for you.
Don't know bud... That one is pretty serious. There are other careers though
I live in Florida... hopefully I can get a job as a banner towing pilot with only 250 hours. haha.
Any luck? I’m in Florida too, just started my ppl don’t know if I want to be an instructor once I’m done with my CPL
Ya let me know as well! Where you looking? How old are you?
I just got my instrument rating a week ago... So I still need to do comercial.
Considering pursuing and understand the stated demand for pilots over the next decade however:
Won’t AI take over the jobs like airplane surveillance and cargo delivery? Like soon… thinking drones
The field is oversaturated with YT people I couldn't do it
Yes you can!
The sky doesn't belong to them. Don't let them have the sky all to themselves!!!!
Remember the Tuskegee Airmen.
That's a poor excuse. If bipocs never join, it will remain a majority ran industry. Be the change you want to see.
Congrats to you two for being a voice of unreason. I don't have a choice at all it's dominated by YTs for a reason. They are the only ones who can afford their training. It's becoming racist to offer non whites any support in the USA.
@@stevenjohnson891 I don't disagree with you (more or less on verbiage). It is a white dominated industry. I am a black male and I don't come from any kind of money. But being a pilot was my goal so I did what I had to do to make it happen (loans). Luckily I have the support of my single mother so I can live rent free and not everyone has that luxury but one person's struggle is not the others. Don't worry about how others got there, just go and get yours.
Just rember you can't be a pilot if you have been jabbed. You put everyone in danger.
You got the Fauci ouchi and a pilot?
Truth
That will soon be the reason for the next pilot shortage. Nobody will want to be flown by pilots that have been whacked
yea good luck with that unless you know someone, until 500h you simply uninsurable
I’m sorry but if you skipped CFI there is an EXTREMELY high chance you are not as a good a pilot as you should be. That’s just the facts.
I beg to differ. I’d rather build hour’s actually flying a plane not sitting passenger the whole time. There is value in teaching but also know that you could also spend those hours doing what YOU want to do not the student. You can practice more on what you need.
Oh please. The freight dog has much experience flying at night, using wx radar to avoid TRWs, and cycling boots and praying that the vacuum pumps hold up to keep the iceman at bay. The typical CFI? Not so much.
f aerial survey , friend died crashed into the mountain , bad planning sure but the job is shit regardless
Not to be insensitive but I'm rather curious about that story.