I have three of those old Mantua/Tyco Pacifics, and they are basically bulletproof. I will note that the main problem with the electrical system is the tender. There are no "proper" wipers and it relies on the bolsters for the connection between the trucks and the frame. Always make sure that the bolster areas on the tender frame and trucks are clean. When you first put it on the track and there was no current draw I knew it was a tender connectivity problem. As an aside, I grew up in Mantua, NJ where Mantua Metal Products was first founded. Mantua was the "kit" side of the company while Tyco was the "ready to run" side. Tyco is short for "Tyler Company", as the family that owned Mantua/Tyco was Tyler.
I have this really old (Like 60-65 year old) Aristocraft 2-8-0 engine that hasn't ever run. So I got bored and fixed it. One thing I would recommend is lubricating the polls on the motor itself. My motor had almost no oxidization on it, but it was still not running very well. I put some lubricant on the polls and the thing can crawl at 0.5 millimeters per second. Many of the tips and techniques you showed in the video worked extremely well, and now I have an amazingly old engine that can run better than some of the current high-end models.
My nephew gave me his old Engine. Same 4-6-2. I found a replacement kit on line to install a can motor. I might just save it and try your tricks! Nicely done How-To. Hats off Sir!
My father had the exact same engine and it was his pride and joy. His also broke the connection from the engine to the tender. He fixed it with a piece of white styrene from my modelling bench. Still have it but its packed away in my moms house - hasnt run in probably 30+ years. I remember that it was a very fast engine. Memories
@@micoasters The specific class of the one in the video is the Baltimore and Ohio super p-7 class without the streamlining. As far as I know, the mantua models all have 4073, but those weren't real p7 running numbers for the B&O.
Happy to see that you got a good screwdriver for the repairs. As a Service Engineer working on equipment for over 27 years, you really appreciate great tools. After watching your videos (which I enjoy very much) You need to invest in the following: Weller pencil type soldering iron, WIHA electric insulated screwdrivers, and good quality test leads. Keep up the good work.
@@SMTMainline And a nicer work surface. That brown painted gnarly top is just not suitable for fine modelling work. At least cover it with a hobby mat.
Yes. Love the old Tyco Mantua locos. I have done these exact things to repair them, and preventive maintenance. Also remember Pacific Fast Mail and Tenshodo locos too. Ahhh memories.
Powered test leads are nice, but a ten dollar multimeter would serve you better. On these old trains you would probably use just the ohm meter which would find your shorts and broken connections faster than the test leads. By the resistance, you would know how good the connection is which can not be done with the leads. The fiberglass paint chip pen is good, but it does leave behind glass fibers and a shot of air wouldn’t be a bad idea. Also, the glass pen leaves the commutator “scratched” up, it takes run time to get that motor running strong and smooth, at least ten, twenty minutes, med low speed. I’ve been watching a lot of your videos lately and enjoy them very much, you do a good job on trains that would otherwise be in a landfill. I personally think any metal bodied model, toy train is worth saving. Oh also, not just on this train, but the other ones you have worked on, motor brush tension. Motor brush tension is very important on these toy trains. They come with very little, for longevity of the motor, commutator brushes, and commutator, and lose a little more over time. Try increasing the tension of the brush on the commutator (baby steps), to improve low amp creep, low speed, crawl. Anyway, enjoy your Chanel, wish you well… adios
Set was called "The Royal Blue". I think the engine is patterned on the B&O "Presidential" series for passenger service. Not a Pittman. My version actually had an open frame motor (like Lionel) "universal" motor.
Dedication to allowing these items of yester-year to have moments to exist in the now is to be appreciated. I am working to bring some gifted relics such as this one back to life. Thank you for taking the timw to record and publish these very helpful videos.
I have this exact locomotive that was a Christmas present from my grandparents in 1969 or 70. It was a model replica of the B&O Royal Blue passenger train that ran between Philadelphia and Baltimore in the 1940's. The biggest problem I have found with it running consistently well is the oxidation of the brass wheels of the tender which is the primary electrical pick up for the locomotive. I used this engine on a Christmas layout and just sitting in the box from one year to the next these wheels would oxidize badly. I use a small wire wheel in a Dremel tool to clean them up and it works great and quickly. The other issue I see is the piece of leather being used for a draw bar between the loco and tender. The should be a piece of metal which again would improve electrical conductivity between tender and locomotive. Somewhere along the line the metal bar was replaced by the leather one but it should be returned to metal for better performance. When running properly these locomotives run well as your demonstration showed and are very good pullers. This was my first steam engine and is still my favorite 50+ years later!
I remember needing a replacement drawbar in the early 80s. The local hobby shop didn't have any and told me to just make one out of a piece of plastic milk jug. It worked great and lasted for decades. The added bonus is that it was flexible so it didn't break when handling the loco/tender combo off of the track.
the wheels should be nickel plated. its easy and cheap to do- if i come across any brass in N scale stuff- i automatically plate it. it would have cost mantua very little to do it during production- tyco wanted it cheap- and they got it....
Great job getting it running again! I had a Tyco Mantua like that just in plain black, back in late 60’s. If I can make a suggestion, disconnect the tender before doing anything else. You run the risk of breaking the drawbar. That one is a piece of leather, probably should replace with a piece of thick styrene.
Mantua locos, the Pacific particularly, are very fast. A matter of the number of teeth on the driver. If I remember correctly, the Pacific has a 40 tooth drive gear. Earlier pre Tyco locomotives had a finer tooth gear, my 2-6-0s from ~1954ish have a smaller metal gear yet have greater number of teeth. The worm moves the gear 1 tooth per rev., the greater the number of teeth, the slower the overall speed on the drivers. When Tyco became separate from Mantua, they went to nylon gears. Making the small teeth is more difficult and less reliable in nylon. BTW, my 2-6-0s have brass gears. . . The very tall drivers have an influence here as well. A NYC generic prototype, the Pacific has been lettered for many large roads. The commutator (motor) when properly dressed should be a chocolate brown, not shiney copper. You are correct about carbon in the segments, watch for high mica as well. Brush tension is important, pressing with your fingers on the brushes actually slows the motor. They should be so weakly held in place that there is good contact but no more. It is normal for brushes to wear until they are grooved, then the wear is minimal. Tyco motors were Mantua inhouse produced, at least into the '80s. The armature must never be removed from the frame unless a "keeper" is placed around the magnet. A weak magnet causes a weak motor. These comments apply to almost any open frame motors used with Varney, English, Bowser, and other archaic drive systems as well. They do apply to modern locos, but "can" motors are not so easily serviced. I have been NMRA from 1971, and BSEE from 1985. Most of my locomotives are metal, I don't like plastic on the front end. I have a couple of the Pacifics, but don't run them. Too fast for my railroad. Bi11 Hudson NMRA 2125 (Life)
I have three of these that run like a charm. One is B&O (had since '70) and two others...one Crescent Limited and one repainted black, both I bought on Ebay. The B&O I have had since I was a kid, and other than maintenance it has run reliably to this day. I actually changed the coupler on it toa Kadee knuckle version so I can use it on my layout..just for grins an giggles. The other two I picked up for fun and both ran, but I did pull them apart and cleaned and lubed...both run great. These are not the best detailed and tend to be a little clunky and noisy but I enjoy them just the same. Thanks for sharing this video!
An excellent video. That very same locomotive, bought brand new, by me, many decades ago, for the princely sum of nineteen dollars and ninety seven cents, plus tax, is today the main power for my twenty one car heavyweight Baltimore and Ohio blue and gray Royal Blue express passenger train. It has been through a flood, and a fire, and still runs great, inside or outside. The Mantua/Tyco 4-6-2 Pacific steam locomotive was one of the few locomotives I could afford way back then that would actually pull a passenger train that long, and they were in stock and on sale. I should have bought two. I definitely got my monies worth and it is a real treat to watch it pull the matching passenger express train through the mountains. The locomotive has had only one modification, which is an identical magnet glued to the original motor magnet, and then a session on my friends magnet recharger. Thanks for the memories. Hello from the Tracy Mountain Railway in Colorado. 💙 T.E.N.
P.S. I did have to add a cover for the gearing to be able to run it outside. A piece of paper, painted black, covers the worm, and a thin piece of aluminum covers the worm gear. The locomotive runs great, even in the rain, and is getting a fantastic weathering job to boot. 💙 T.E.N.
I had one of those once--but I stripped the paint off and painted it black and decaled it to Central of Georgia. Still runs on my layout. I did change the magnets in the motor to the neodymium rare earth ones and it really made a difference on the amount of current draw. It will crawl at low speeds now.
Good video! You seem well prepared, you have a plan, you have direction. So many diys are not thought out, don’t have direction, and they ramble! A pleasure to listen to your instructions. I wish you would have cleaned the tie bar between the engine and tender😊. Thanks
At work, saved this to watch later, because I have a Lionel that is 90 years old that belonged to my dad, and I have never personally run it. Hoping to find some useful tips here.
I have a Santa Fe O-Scale Locomotive that really doesn’t run I just use it for decoration. It must be a REALLY old locomotive probably 70’s or 80’s. Btw I love your videos! Congrats on fixing this steam engine!
Great video, and important for me. After 25 years I decided to put down some track for a small switching layout, and just today pulled out old diesel and steam locos to see how they run and what kind of TLC they need. Since it's been such a long time, it was nice to have a refresher in maintenance.
I really enjoy watching your videos. I had a large HO layout a few years ago that I would work on when I wasn't at work. This started out as a 4X8 but grew much bigger in time. I sold everything after I retried. "LONG STORY" Got busy doing other things BUT I do miss my trains from time to time. I never got into the DDC stuff. I had a lot of the older Athearn Locomottives. Yes they are very good for the money and I would detail them. I do have a lot of pictures of the layout that I am glad that I took. I would be happy to share them if you like. Who knows..Maybe I will get back into trains Thinking about N gauge
Looks great! When I clean up a locomotive, I like to test electrical conductivity through each step. Sometimes the spring in wheel contacts are oxidized, as well as the wheels. So checking step by step helps troubleshoot on the way back to the rails. That is a beautiful loco! And thanks for showing us the fiberglass pencil. I just ordered a set of fiberglass, steel and brass pencils for polishing up metal contacts. Thanks again for showing us that. - Rob
I have that exact same engine!!! I have a massive HO train collection amassed when my dad was alive. They are stored away and haven't run for decades...just like this engine!
Man i wish they made motors like that again. I used to have a bachmann steam train, the motors they use are crap, you can't really get into them without messing up the casing and they use thin copper wiring so they can burn up fast. Plus the gears got stripped over time. It had so many more problems though, they aren't very reliable from my experience. The tycos on the other hand seem to last long from what iv'e heard and from what iv'e seen on this video.
I think a light sanding with a dremel would finish cleaning up the oxidation on the wheels. Only takes a little spot on slow speeds to bring it to a stop. I would also consider installing DCC and a small capacitor to buffer dead spots if there's room in the shell. Another decent idea would be to replace the old leather strap connecting the tender to the locomotive with a piece of brass sheet cut to length, proper width, and of course something to insulate it and bypass the electric through screws to a small male to female connector. A fresh paint job would also work wonders for the asthetics.
19:08 "five pole" motor in a 1960s-1970s model, I thought it was an X04 motor as it was common on a British brand's locomotives. I get this "X04" vibe as I own a 1970s Hornby B12/3 that is fitted with an identical motor.
For those that are not from my part of New Jersey (Mantua is 4 miles away) I mostly hear Man -TU-a. No that is not it. Around here it is almost 2 syllables - Man-chua. The "a" at the end sort of slides off. I toured the Tyco factory when I was in Cub Scouts in about 1975.
I knew it! Once I saw you unwrap that baby from the mail I knew it would be bumped to the top of the repair list. Fantastic job! I had some doubt like I’m a new subscriber or something.
Good Job. Them locomotives are fast as I have 2 of them as you know they are great pullers. A little bit of wheel slip and she will yank anything you can throw at her. I cringed when I seen the pilot broke which is common due to being plastic and its age. Love this. Newer magnet on motor will improve the crawl etc . beautiful rare model
Worm mesh is the other thing that can make it go better. One screw to hold the motor down and if it's too tight the worm mashes on the wheel gear. Kadee paper washers or matchbook pieces under the front or back of the motor screw to make sure the mesh is just right and she should creepy crawl. Wheel wipers insulated from the frame can help over plastic frogs and crossings, too.
Stunning! I love these older engines, Though I'm from Britain and ik not too keen on American locos.I have a 91 year old Clockwork Royal Scot and coaches, it is a hornby clockwork and rund lovely.
Awesome SMT! I actually have two of those. One is an old Chessie System version and the other one I had my local hobby shop install DCC sound, weathering, and extra detail. It even has the OG motor!
I know Im randomly asking but does anyone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account? I was stupid lost my account password. I would love any assistance you can offer me
@Jayceon Arthur I really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and Im trying it out now. Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
Awesome job. I have a mantua tyco just like this but only black. They're a great model. Had to do basically the same to mine. But now after watching this I might go over mine again. Lol
Hopefully some day you can connect all your layout sections together Harrison and have a big layout to run passenger and freight lol, maybe even run your Acela if it still works, I still stay Bachman’s certain spectrum locos have their ups and downs, I wouldn’t consider buying an Acela if it had the same problem, and have a happy new year
Love the old TYCO/Mantua 4-6-2's! I have 3 of them myself. Two are the collector ones from the 1990's. To top it off, I'm a B&O fan and love that paint scheme!
I just watched the "President Washington" P7 Pacific being moved some months ago. For lower budgets, the Mantua P7 is about as close as you can get since most models are K1 or USRA light. The boiler, top layout, pilot and drive wheels are close enough to prototype for what was a 1960s/70s die-cast toy train. The cab is completely wrong and tiny however. It is the same plastic cab off the little 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 Tyco slopeback switchers. The tender is pretty close to correct for the B&O P7 President class. The center headlights were affixed to some or all during wwii. The original build had smokebox top lights (typical of B&O) 20s till 30s. I think the prototype they copied were two P7s that B&O assembled during the 40s with parts. I have a sweet spot for this loco. I lusted after it when I was 7 or 8. I bought a high end new Mantua one in the 90s and repainted it to the blue boiler with black smoke box. I did add brakes, extra pipes, a high end bell, a firebox flame light, cab light and a USRA headlight with number boards...plus better ladders and details for the tender, with backup lighting. #5318. That was one of the wwii rebuilds. I want to build a properly scaled cab, but then it wouldn't be the loco in the catalog in 1968.
Great restoration! The paint job on that with the blue and gold looks awesome! I have a Mantua 2-8-2 and I bought those magnets and put them in the motor and mine can crawl! Have a great day!
I have an old Tyco The General Steam Locomotive that was at an antique shop and my Grandma got it for me last year and when I tested it just to see if it ran, low and behold the thing still had juice in it, but I haven’t seen it since last year
The big issue I've had with Mantuas is that the magnets get real weak. I've cleaned the commutators well and checked the windings and everything was ok, but just running the motor itself it drew alot of current and barely moved. I had this happen on probably a half a dozen of them now.
Mantua magnets hold up pretty good, Tyco not so much so. The weak magnets can be replaced, usually with generic "filler" magnets. BTW, reversing the magnet will reverse the motor.
This is so trippy! I had the shell and tender of this locomotive as a kid, leftovers from my Dad's childhood collection from the early 70s. I loved that thing; it didn't have a chassis, so I'd always find "creative" solutions to replace the loco wheels. It's so surreal to see the complete engine for the first time! This thing is all metal, they don't make them like that anymore!
Nice job! You have to get rid of that sad excuse for a drawbar though! I thought it was a piece of carpet at first!😁 It is causing some contact problems. I suggest you make one out of relatively thick styrene sheet. And how about expanding a little and giving it a paint job (just the loco itself, not the tender)? You do paint quite well and I'm sure you can get it looking almost new. And you are right about that Mantua Pacific being a product of the 1950s. Model Steam locomotives from that era are very similarly designed even if they are from different companies. If you know your way around a Mantua you can gix a Bowser or a Varney. That Penn Line 2-10-0 you got with the Pacific will be a piece of cake for you. And while I don't know if that motor is specifically a Pittman in that Mantua Pacific companies like Penn Line, Bowser, Varney, Hobbytown and John Enhlish did use Pittman brand motors that were of very simular design, but bigger.
That drawbar isn't for the electrical system but I can't say it does a bad job at allowing the tender to turn properly. I will have to see if I can wire around it. It sure could use a paint job since the original paint seems to have become un-bonded from the metal although I'm not sire if I could do a good job so I think I will just leave it.
@@SMTMainline I realize the drawbar isn't supposed to be electricly conductive. That is a normal thing on Mantua locomotives, but it still looks like it is interfering with the wire contact screw. Besides it damn ugly. As for painting the loco this would be an easy first step since the boiler is all one uniform cover (you can unscrew the cab from the boiler btw) so no masking is required. Just strip it, clean it with first dish soap then alcohol. Then spray prime it and then spray paint it with the shade of blue closest to the original color you can find. The same with the cylinders. If you screw up, just start over, easy since it is just one color. Give it a try. I guarentee you painting the Canadiana DD40 was harder, you working with two colors and all the masking. You have to start some where.😉 Just don't paint the siderods!😊
Just like with paints. I like to put cpl bb,s in the bottles to help mix the paint. Will help mix any liquids together even if they separate over few days.
That is a very fast loco, i did calculate that it like many large drivered mantuas of its period in the late 60's early 70's have perhaps approx 85% efficiency and 120 scale mph top speed, very "Bus 14" esk numbers.
Also I think with A set of Kadee couplers insulated using a plastic sleeve or ones with plastic shanks (Any 100 or 200 series) and it will haul 10 or more passenger cars.
I love restoring shelf queens. I’m in progress on a 90+ year old loco which sat in a box for more than 65 years. She was rode hard and put up wet. It’s always fulfilling.
I have several of engines of this make . Don't know if all of these were kits but mine are and they are NOT in good shape . Don't know if they are worth anything but I find them unique and fascinating with the amazing level of detail they have . Thanks for inspiring me to get a move on them and for the very helpful information !
What a gorgeous engine. Love watching them run. Absolutely cool watching. Thanks for sharing. ♥😺♥ I love trains even though I have never ridden in one...yet. I Hit like, subscribed and notify all
You can't "zap" yourself with 16V DC. Alot of people fear getting shocked by model railroads. Not a chance unless you are working on the mains to a transformer. You can however damage the equipment with a short, which is why I cringe when he tests to see if his leads have power by rubbing them against each other, looking for arcing. That's fine if you don't really care about the power supply, but I would just test the voltage with my meter if I was really worried about whether or not I had voltage.
Damn when I took mine apart I unscrewed everything on the bottom and had no idea there was a screw in the smokestack. It was time consuming and painful, wish I would have had this video to look at then. But good for future reference.
Love watching your videos. You're teaching alot of people some good tricks to get things rolling. Shoot you taught an old fart like me a couple. Keep up the great 👍.
When it comes to steam engines, its a good idea to use light oil on the running rods. Metal on metal causes friction. I'm glad to see that you did that. Thanks. Pacific steam engines were designed for high speed passenger trains. This one copies that idea well.
@@SMTMainline There are several ways to slow these down by replacing the motor with a can or coreless motor. The main hassle is converting the direct drive with a gearbox and driveshaft connected to the motor. At one time, Mantua actually made a gearbox that screwed directly to the frame, and could then be connected to a motor sitting further back by universals or a piece of model airplane fuel hose. The late Harold Mellor also made an open gearbox arrangement. It may be possible to find one of the Mantua gearboxes on ebay, but they are scarce. With a gearbox and can motor, most of which have insulated outsides, it is easy to install a DCC sound system in the tender. Some other fun projects can be done using two Mikados or Pacifics, creating 2-10-2's, 2-10-4's and 4-8-4's. "All" it takes is a hacksaw, and a lot of work. Those beasts will even run on 18" radius track!
i use petrolatum or light grease on the valve gear points- it will throw light oil all over the place at speed- especially the way harrison slathers em up.
One thing.. what was put in the nylon worm gear? Nylon gears should never be lubed ...they are self lubing and added lube will cause grit to be attracted to them... and then become embedded in it..... and slowly wear out the nylon gear.along with the metal gear it engages with.
I have that exact loco as part of a passenger set that’s also probably 50 years since it last ran. My recollection was that it ran extremely well, but needed a little pulse power to creep at low speed.
First love your videos.. I collect those old tyco/mantuas and have over 30. Very simple loco easy to fix and maintain. There is a can motor available out there and if its put in and isolated ( plastic motor screw and tape between motor and frame) these can be converted to dcc. With the weight these locos have they are excellent pullers. If someone wants to know more or needs info on parts. Contact me.
nice tutorial on breathing life into an old locomotive..👌 but please put some thin high density fome in the bottom of that tray to stop the damage to the paint work..👍
I have three of those old Mantua/Tyco Pacifics, and they are basically bulletproof. I will note that the main problem with the electrical system is the tender. There are no "proper" wipers and it relies on the bolsters for the connection between the trucks and the frame. Always make sure that the bolster areas on the tender frame and trucks are clean. When you first put it on the track and there was no current draw I knew it was a tender connectivity problem.
As an aside, I grew up in Mantua, NJ where Mantua Metal Products was first founded. Mantua was the "kit" side of the company while Tyco was the "ready to run" side. Tyco is short for "Tyler Company", as the family that owned Mantua/Tyco was Tyler.
I have this really old (Like 60-65 year old) Aristocraft 2-8-0 engine that hasn't ever run. So I got bored and fixed it. One thing I would recommend is lubricating the polls on the motor itself. My motor had almost no oxidization on it, but it was still not running very well. I put some lubricant on the polls and the thing can crawl at 0.5 millimeters per second. Many of the tips and techniques you showed in the video worked extremely well, and now I have an amazingly old engine that can run better than some of the current high-end models.
My nephew gave me his old Engine. Same 4-6-2. I found a replacement kit on line to install a can motor. I might just save it and try your tricks! Nicely done How-To. Hats off Sir!
My father had the exact same engine and it was his pride and joy. His also broke the connection from the engine to the tender. He fixed it with a piece of white styrene from my modelling bench. Still have it but its packed away in my moms house - hasnt run in probably 30+ years. I remember that it was a very fast engine. Memories
@Richard Warfield. What kind of engine it is because I can’t find one on eBay. I know it’s a tyco mantua 4-6-2 pacific but can’t find one
@@micoasters The specific class of the one in the video is the Baltimore and Ohio super p-7 class without the streamlining. As far as I know, the mantua models all have 4073, but those weren't real p7 running numbers for the B&O.
Happy to see that you got a good screwdriver for the repairs. As a Service Engineer working on equipment for over 27 years, you really appreciate great tools. After watching your videos (which I enjoy very much) You need to invest in the following: Weller pencil type soldering iron, WIHA electric insulated screwdrivers, and good quality test leads. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the advice. Being that this video is a couple years old I have upgraded since then.
@@SMTMainline And a nicer work surface. That brown painted gnarly top is just not suitable for fine modelling work. At least cover it with a hobby mat.
I no longer model railroad, but had a good running 2-8-2 Mikado back in the day from mantua. That thing was awesome!
I had that same engine many years ago, as a young model railroader in the 70's! So good to see it running again!
They're good looking locos.
Me too. My folks got it for me in 1974. Sadly I don't think it has run since 1978; but I still have it - somewhere.
Yes. Love the old Tyco Mantua locos. I have done these exact things to repair them, and preventive maintenance. Also remember Pacific Fast Mail and Tenshodo locos too. Ahhh memories.
Powered test leads are nice, but a ten dollar multimeter would serve you better. On these old trains you would probably use just the ohm meter which would find your shorts and broken connections faster than the test leads. By the resistance, you would know how good the connection is which can not be done with the leads. The fiberglass paint chip pen is good, but it does leave behind glass fibers and a shot of air wouldn’t be a bad idea. Also, the glass pen leaves the commutator “scratched” up, it takes run time to get that motor running strong and smooth, at least ten, twenty minutes, med low speed. I’ve been watching a lot of your videos lately and enjoy them very much, you do a good job on trains that would otherwise be in a landfill. I personally think any metal bodied model, toy train is worth saving. Oh also, not just on this train, but the other ones you have worked on, motor brush tension. Motor brush tension is very important on these toy trains. They come with very little, for longevity of the motor, commutator brushes, and commutator, and lose a little more over time. Try increasing the tension of the brush on the commutator (baby steps), to improve low amp creep, low speed, crawl. Anyway, enjoy your Chanel, wish you well… adios
Set was called "The Royal Blue". I think the engine is patterned on the B&O "Presidential" series for passenger service. Not a Pittman. My version actually had an open frame motor (like Lionel) "universal" motor.
Dedication to allowing these items of yester-year to have moments to exist in the now is to be appreciated. I am working to bring some gifted relics such as this one back to life. Thank you for taking the timw to record and publish these very helpful videos.
I have this exact locomotive that was a Christmas present from my grandparents in 1969 or 70. It was a model replica of the B&O Royal Blue passenger train that ran between Philadelphia and Baltimore in the 1940's.
The biggest problem I have found with it running consistently well is the oxidation of the brass wheels of the tender which is the primary electrical pick up for the locomotive. I used this engine on a Christmas layout and just sitting in the box from one year to the next these wheels would oxidize badly. I use a small wire wheel in a Dremel tool to clean them up and it works great and quickly.
The other issue I see is the piece of leather being used for a draw bar between the loco and tender. The should be a piece of metal which again would improve electrical conductivity between tender and locomotive. Somewhere along the line the metal bar was replaced by the leather one but it should be returned to metal for better performance.
When running properly these locomotives run well as your demonstration showed and are very good pullers. This was my first steam engine and is still my favorite 50+ years later!
It was a fiber drawbar, I had to make a styrene replacement for mine...
Yes the Pitmann motors were very good for pulling long strings of cars. Had a Bowser 4-6-6-4, and pulled 150 cars all the time.
I remember needing a replacement drawbar in the early 80s. The local hobby shop didn't have any and told me to just make one out of a piece of plastic milk jug. It worked great and lasted for decades. The added bonus is that it was flexible so it didn't break when handling the loco/tender combo off of the track.
the wheels should be nickel plated. its easy and cheap to do- if i come across any brass in N scale stuff- i automatically plate it. it would have cost mantua very little to do it during production- tyco wanted it cheap- and they got it....
@@daviddrake6875 that sounds like such a pain- i might do it once or twice just so i know, but 'all the time'?
Great job getting it running again! I had a Tyco Mantua like that just in plain black, back in late 60’s. If I can make a suggestion, disconnect the tender before doing anything else. You run the risk of breaking the drawbar. That one is a piece of leather, probably should replace with a piece of thick styrene.
Mine has a solid drawbar. Either one is easily repaired, but sound advice on your part!
Mantua locos, the Pacific particularly, are very fast. A matter of the number of teeth on the driver. If I remember correctly, the Pacific has a 40 tooth drive gear. Earlier pre Tyco locomotives had a finer tooth gear, my 2-6-0s from ~1954ish have a smaller metal gear yet have greater number of teeth. The worm moves the gear 1 tooth per rev., the greater the number of teeth, the slower the overall speed on the drivers. When Tyco became separate from Mantua, they went to nylon gears. Making the small teeth is more difficult and less reliable in nylon. BTW, my 2-6-0s have brass gears. . . The very tall drivers have an influence here as well. A NYC generic prototype, the Pacific has been lettered for many large roads.
The commutator (motor) when properly dressed should be a chocolate brown, not shiney copper. You are correct about carbon in the segments, watch for high mica as well. Brush tension is important, pressing with your fingers on the brushes actually slows the motor. They should be so weakly held in place that there is good contact but no more. It is normal for brushes to wear until they are grooved, then the wear is minimal.
Tyco motors were Mantua inhouse produced, at least into the '80s. The armature must never be removed from the frame unless a "keeper" is placed around the magnet. A weak magnet causes a weak motor. These comments apply to almost any open frame motors used with Varney, English, Bowser, and other archaic drive systems as well. They do apply to modern locos, but "can" motors are not so easily serviced.
I have been NMRA from 1971, and BSEE from 1985. Most of my locomotives are metal, I don't like plastic on the front end. I have a couple of the Pacifics, but don't run them. Too fast for my railroad.
Bi11 Hudson NMRA 2125 (Life)
'Yeah, alright! We gotta runner!' Felt your sense of satisfaction, seeing it go. Another great service. Cheers, Jim L
My 1958 Tyco pacific still runs like a champ. I did replace the drivers and side rods.
Does yours have the over smokebox non working headlight cast into the boiler metal? Or this center USRA headlight?
@@STho205 non working centre head light with a jewel.
I have three of these that run like a charm. One is B&O (had since '70) and two others...one Crescent Limited and one repainted black, both I bought on Ebay. The B&O I have had since I was a kid, and other than maintenance it has run reliably to this day. I actually changed the coupler on it toa Kadee knuckle version so I can use it on my layout..just for grins an giggles. The other two I picked up for fun and both ran, but I did pull them apart and cleaned and lubed...both run great. These are not the best detailed and tend to be a little clunky and noisy but I enjoy them just the same. Thanks for sharing this video!
An excellent video. That very same locomotive, bought brand new, by me, many decades ago, for the princely sum of nineteen dollars and ninety seven cents, plus tax, is today the main power for my twenty one car heavyweight Baltimore and Ohio blue and gray Royal Blue express passenger train. It has been through a flood, and a fire, and still runs great, inside or outside. The Mantua/Tyco 4-6-2 Pacific steam locomotive was one of the few locomotives I could afford way back then that would actually pull a passenger train that long, and they were in stock and on sale. I should have bought two. I definitely got my monies worth and it is a real treat to watch it pull the matching passenger express train through the mountains. The locomotive has had only one modification, which is an identical magnet glued to the original motor magnet, and then a session on my friends magnet recharger. Thanks for the memories. Hello from the Tracy Mountain Railway in Colorado. 💙 T.E.N.
P.S. I did have to add a cover for the gearing to be able to run it outside. A piece of paper, painted black, covers the worm, and a thin piece of aluminum covers the worm gear. The locomotive runs great, even in the rain, and is getting a fantastic weathering job to boot. 💙 T.E.N.
I had one of those once--but I stripped the paint off and painted it black and decaled it to Central of Georgia. Still runs on my layout. I did change the magnets in the motor to the neodymium rare earth ones and it really made a difference on the amount of current draw. It will crawl at low speeds now.
Good video! You seem well prepared, you have a plan, you have direction. So many diys are not thought out, don’t have direction, and they ramble! A pleasure to listen to your instructions. I wish you would have cleaned the tie bar between the engine and tender😊. Thanks
At work, saved this to watch later, because I have a Lionel that is 90 years old that belonged to my dad, and I have never personally run it. Hoping to find some useful tips here.
Happy 2021! That locomotive has a nice blue tone with the B and O! Amazing look and amazing locomotive! See you in the next one!
Happy new year!
I have a Santa Fe O-Scale Locomotive that really doesn’t run I just use it for decoration. It must be a REALLY old locomotive probably 70’s or 80’s. Btw I love your videos! Congrats on fixing this steam engine!
Great video, and important for me. After 25 years I decided to put down some track for a small switching layout, and just today pulled out old diesel and steam locos to see how they run and what kind of TLC they need. Since it's been such a long time, it was nice to have a refresher in maintenance.
I really enjoy watching your videos. I had a large HO layout a few years ago that I would work on when I wasn't at work. This started out as a 4X8 but grew much bigger in time. I sold everything after I retried. "LONG STORY" Got busy doing other things BUT I do miss my trains from time to time. I never got into the DDC stuff. I had a lot of the older Athearn Locomottives. Yes they are very good for the money and I would detail them. I do have a lot of pictures of the layout that I am glad that I took. I would be happy to share them if you like. Who knows..Maybe I will get back into trains Thinking about N gauge
Looks great!
When I clean up a locomotive, I like to test electrical conductivity through each step. Sometimes the spring in wheel contacts are oxidized, as well as the wheels. So checking step by step helps troubleshoot on the way back to the rails.
That is a beautiful loco!
And thanks for showing us the fiberglass pencil. I just ordered a set of fiberglass, steel and brass pencils for polishing up metal contacts. Thanks again for showing us that.
- Rob
I should check the springs, I hadn't thought to look there. It could explain why it was having trouble at lower speeds.
I have that exact same engine!!! I have a massive HO train collection amassed when my dad was alive. They are stored away and haven't run for decades...just like this engine!
Break em out! Be a kid again.
sitting doesn't do them any good..... unless you run your trains like gomez and pugsley addams!
Man i wish they made motors like that again. I used to have a bachmann steam train, the motors they use are crap, you can't really get into them without messing up the casing and they use thin copper wiring so they can burn up fast. Plus the gears got stripped over time. It had so many more problems though, they aren't very reliable from my experience. The tycos on the other hand seem to last long from what iv'e heard and from what iv'e seen on this video.
I think a light sanding with a dremel would finish cleaning up the oxidation on the wheels. Only takes a little spot on slow speeds to bring it to a stop. I would also consider installing DCC and a small capacitor to buffer dead spots if there's room in the shell. Another decent idea would be to replace the old leather strap connecting the tender to the locomotive with a piece of brass sheet cut to length, proper width, and of course something to insulate it and bypass the electric through screws to a small male to female connector. A fresh paint job would also work wonders for the asthetics.
19:08 "five pole" motor in a 1960s-1970s model, I thought it was an X04 motor as it was common on a British brand's locomotives. I get this "X04" vibe as I own a 1970s Hornby B12/3 that is fitted with an identical motor.
Finally someone who can show me how go over an engine to make it run. Thanks!
Glad this could help.
For those that are not from my part of New Jersey (Mantua is 4 miles away) I mostly hear Man -TU-a. No that is not it. Around here it is almost 2 syllables - Man-chua. The "a" at the end sort of slides off. I toured the Tyco factory when I was in Cub Scouts in about 1975.
I knew it! Once I saw you unwrap that baby from the mail I knew it would be bumped to the top of the repair list. Fantastic job! I had some doubt like I’m a new subscriber or something.
Glad you were able to get her back to running condition!
Good Job. Them locomotives are fast as I have 2 of them as you know they are great pullers. A little bit of wheel slip and she will yank anything you can throw at her. I cringed when I seen the pilot broke which is common due to being plastic and its age. Love this. Newer magnet on motor will improve the crawl etc . beautiful rare model
Worm mesh is the other thing that can make it go better. One screw to hold the motor down and if it's too tight the worm mashes on the wheel gear. Kadee paper washers or matchbook pieces under the front or back of the motor screw to make sure the mesh is just right and she should creepy crawl. Wheel wipers insulated from the frame can help over plastic frogs and crossings, too.
Yeah it would probably do much better with a neodymium magnet.
Nice job. I've heard that replacing the motor magnet with a stack of rare earth magnets really gives the motor a boost.
Stunning! I love these older engines, Though I'm from Britain and ik not too keen on American locos.I have a 91 year old Clockwork Royal Scot and coaches, it is a hornby clockwork and rund lovely.
Why are you not too keen on American Locomotives?
@@daviddrake6875 well, sometimes alright with them - really it's just how big and bulky they are.
Awesome SMT! I actually have two of those. One is an old Chessie System version and the other one I had my local hobby shop install DCC sound, weathering, and extra detail. It even has the OG motor!
Sweet.
I know Im randomly asking but does anyone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account?
I was stupid lost my account password. I would love any assistance you can offer me
@Mordechai Abdiel Instablaster =)
@Jayceon Arthur I really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and Im trying it out now.
Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Jayceon Arthur it worked and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thank you so much you really help me out !
Great videos and dont let anyone bring you down!
Thanks! 🙏
Awesome job. I have a mantua tyco just like this but only black. They're a great model. Had to do basically the same to mine. But now after watching this I might go over mine again. Lol
Nice work as always. A logical and methodical process that's based on experience, and another little piece of history is riding the rails again.
This is perfectly timed, just bought a 4-6-2 over the weekend just like this one thats in need of a good cleaning.
I’m just starting a train collection and I hope I can make a trail table soon keep up the great videos
That's awesome, welcome to the hobby!
If you got a roadrunner that’s train layout better be pretty bad ass.
Good luck
Hopefully some day you can connect all your layout sections together Harrison and have a big layout to run passenger and freight lol, maybe even run your Acela if it still works, I still stay Bachman’s certain spectrum locos have their ups and downs, I wouldn’t consider buying an Acela if it had the same problem, and have a happy new year
Good job with that engine. Also, nice looking layout.
Love the old TYCO/Mantua 4-6-2's! I have 3 of them myself. Two are the collector ones from the 1990's. To top it off, I'm a B&O fan and love that paint scheme!
I just watched the "President Washington" P7 Pacific being moved some months ago. For lower budgets, the Mantua P7 is about as close as you can get since most models are K1 or USRA light. The boiler, top layout, pilot and drive wheels are close enough to prototype for what was a 1960s/70s die-cast
toy train. The cab is completely wrong and tiny however. It is the same plastic cab off the little 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 Tyco slopeback switchers.
The tender is pretty close to correct for the B&O P7 President class.
The center headlights were affixed to some or all during wwii. The original build had smokebox top lights (typical of B&O) 20s till 30s.
I think the prototype they copied were two P7s that B&O assembled during the 40s with parts.
I have a sweet spot for this loco. I lusted after it when I was 7 or 8. I bought a high end new Mantua one in the 90s and repainted it to the blue boiler with black smoke box. I did add brakes, extra pipes, a high end bell, a firebox flame light, cab light and a USRA headlight with number boards...plus better ladders and details for the tender, with backup lighting. #5318. That was one of the wwii rebuilds.
I want to build a properly scaled cab, but then it wouldn't be the loco in the catalog in 1968.
Brought back memories of my Tyco 2-8-2 that was made in the 60's which was so nearly the same.
As it happens, I have the exact same Loco, in Santa Fe trim. Hasn't run in 50! Thanks for all the tips!
Still have 2 sets of model trains one about the same size as this one shown and a bigger version. Would like to take it up as a hobby someday again
Nice job Harrison, I love the fact that you knew how to fix beaten up or just simply broken models and turn them brand new
Great restoration! The paint job on that with the blue and gold looks awesome! I have a Mantua 2-8-2 and I bought those magnets and put them in the motor and mine can crawl! Have a great day!
Do you mean neodymium magnets?
@@SMTMainline Yep!
That is a great looking engine the guy who ownes it will be happy to see it running again good job at getting it running.
I hope so.
I certainly did!
@@Orangeshirt_Railfan So are you the guy who ownes the locomotive?
@@NicholassTrainChannel yes it is! :)
amasing job buddy runs like a nearly new locomotive cheers
I have seen that locomotive in my store, one of the guys that worked there said that it was all most 60 years old.
I have an old Tyco The General Steam Locomotive that was at an antique shop and my Grandma got it for me last year and when I tested it just to see if it ran, low and behold the thing still had juice in it, but I haven’t seen it since last year
The big issue I've had with Mantuas is that the magnets get real weak. I've cleaned the commutators well and checked the windings and everything was ok, but just running the motor itself it drew alot of current and barely moved. I had this happen on probably a half a dozen of them now.
Mantua magnets hold up pretty good, Tyco not so much so. The weak magnets can be replaced, usually with generic "filler" magnets. BTW, reversing the magnet will reverse the motor.
Thank you smt! cant wait for the next restoration
I was running an old ho locomotive and thought I smelled smoke, I went upstairs and it was just my grandma cooking
LOL
I've had things like that happen too.
😆
Haha
Um what!! Hey grandma ar- oh ok
This is so trippy! I had the shell and tender of this locomotive as a kid, leftovers from my Dad's childhood collection from the early 70s. I loved that thing; it didn't have a chassis, so I'd always find "creative" solutions to replace the loco wheels. It's so surreal to see the complete engine for the first time! This thing is all metal, they don't make them like that anymore!
they do- but they can cost a grip
For and older engine its really nice! The amount of detail for its age is nice. Great work!
They did a fine job with the design inside and out.
Very cool looking vintage locomotive
Nice job! You have to get rid of that sad excuse for a drawbar though! I thought it was a piece of carpet at first!😁 It is causing some contact problems. I suggest you make one out of relatively thick styrene sheet.
And how about expanding a little and giving it a paint job (just the loco itself, not the tender)? You do paint quite well and I'm sure you can get it looking almost new.
And you are right about that Mantua Pacific being a product of the 1950s. Model Steam locomotives from that era are very similarly designed even if they are from different companies. If you know your way around a Mantua you can gix a Bowser or a Varney. That Penn Line 2-10-0 you got with the Pacific will be a piece of cake for you.
And while I don't know if that motor is specifically a Pittman in that Mantua Pacific companies like Penn Line, Bowser, Varney, Hobbytown and John Enhlish did use Pittman brand motors that were of very simular design, but bigger.
The drawbar is a piece of leather. They came originally with a piece of fiber board, like cardboard. Styrene would be a good idea.
That drawbar isn't for the electrical system but I can't say it does a bad job at allowing the tender to turn properly. I will have to see if I can wire around it. It sure could use a paint job since the original paint seems to have become un-bonded from the metal although I'm not sire if I could do a good job so I think I will just leave it.
@@SMTMainline
I realize the drawbar isn't supposed to be electricly conductive. That is a normal thing on Mantua locomotives, but it still looks like it is interfering with the wire contact screw. Besides it damn ugly.
As for painting the loco this would be an easy first step since the boiler is all one uniform cover (you can unscrew the cab from the boiler btw) so no masking is required. Just strip it, clean it with first dish soap then alcohol. Then spray prime it and then spray paint it with the shade of blue closest to the original color you can find. The same with the cylinders. If you screw up, just start over, easy since it is just one color.
Give it a try. I guarentee you painting the Canadiana DD40 was harder, you working with two colors and all the masking. You have to start some where.😉 Just don't paint the siderods!😊
Mantua adapted their own slot car motor to run the trains. 💙 T.E.N.
I actually thought that drawbar was extremely rusted/corroded metal at first, lol. Good to know it’s leather.
I had a black one and you helped me get her goin again
Just like with paints. I like to put cpl bb,s in the bottles to help mix the paint. Will help mix any liquids together even if they separate over few days.
That is a very fast loco, i did calculate that it like many large drivered mantuas of its period in the late 60's early 70's have perhaps approx 85% efficiency and 120 scale mph top speed, very "Bus 14" esk numbers.
Also I think with A set of Kadee couplers insulated using a plastic sleeve or ones with plastic shanks (Any 100 or 200 series) and it will haul 10 or more passenger cars.
I love restoring shelf queens. I’m in progress on a 90+ year old loco which sat in a box for more than 65 years. She was rode hard and put up wet. It’s always fulfilling.
What kind of locomotive is it?
I bought a Mantua long haul tender just like the one on the 4-6-2 to modify to be the tender for Grand Trunk Western 5629
Hope to get mine running this week, thanks for the info.
Best of luck!
Its alive, just got it running, thanks again
Yay the B&O steamer is running. Nice Video SMT!
Thanks
nice job, those curves really freaked me out though.
Yeah, a little fast for them although nothing happened.
I have several of engines of this make .
Don't know if all of these were kits but mine are and they are NOT in good shape .
Don't know if they are worth anything but I find them unique and fascinating with the amazing level of detail they have .
Thanks for inspiring me to get a move on them and for the very helpful information !
I restore locomotives all the time. Prewar postwar lionel ect ect. Its amazing to see something running and alive again.
try doing it in fine scale with a group of owners watching over your shoulders....
What a gorgeous engine. Love watching them run. Absolutely cool watching. Thanks for sharing. ♥😺♥ I love trains even though I have never ridden in one...yet. I Hit like, subscribed and notify all
Great job on fixing that train I look forward to seeing it run with the Baltimore and Ohio passenger cars
It will look great. It just needs a little more work and it should be good.
@@SMTMainline that's good
instead of zapping you self or damaging what you are working on you can use a multimeter with a diode check to test for conductivity
You can't "zap" yourself with 16V DC. Alot of people fear getting shocked by model railroads. Not a chance unless you are working on the mains to a transformer. You can however damage the equipment with a short, which is why I cringe when he tests to see if his leads have power by rubbing them against each other, looking for arcing. That's fine if you don't really care about the power supply, but I would just test the voltage with my meter if I was really worried about whether or not I had voltage.
I have a o scale electric loco that was my Grandpas. Probably hasnt moved since the 70's. I need to send it to you.
Quite intriguing to see how locomotives have changed.
They sure have come a long way.
now its all electronics. no way a new one would last as long as this one
@@randomrazr not a problem as long as it can be serviced...
Damn when I took mine apart I unscrewed everything on the bottom and had no idea there was a screw in the smokestack. It was time consuming and painful, wish I would have had this video to look at then. But good for future reference.
It took me a while to figure it out back in the day too. Trial and error I guess.
Love watching your videos. You're teaching alot of people some good tricks to get things rolling. Shoot you taught an old fart like me a couple. Keep up the great 👍.
SMT, happy New Year’s! Sorry about the rude comments about the centerbeam cars anyways love your videos and happy 2021 cheers 🍻,Roman
Wow! I live next to the former B&O, and that looks very cool!
you can't kill these old Mantua locos. This one is based on the B&O P7e loco so nice that it is in that paint scheme, though released in many others.
When it comes to steam engines, its a good idea to use light oil on the running rods. Metal on metal causes friction. I'm glad to see that you did that. Thanks. Pacific steam engines were designed for high speed passenger trains. This one copies that idea well.
I guess that's what they geared this model for, I don't know why else it would go so fast with a 5 pole.
@@SMTMainline There are several ways to slow these down by replacing the motor with a can or coreless motor. The main hassle is converting the direct drive with a gearbox and driveshaft connected to the motor. At one time, Mantua actually made a gearbox that screwed directly to the frame, and could then be connected to a motor sitting further back by universals or a piece of model airplane fuel hose. The late Harold Mellor also made an open gearbox arrangement. It may be possible to find one of the Mantua gearboxes on ebay, but they are scarce. With a gearbox and can motor, most of which have insulated outsides, it is easy to install a DCC sound system in the tender.
Some other fun projects can be done using two Mikados or Pacifics, creating 2-10-2's, 2-10-4's and 4-8-4's. "All" it takes is a hacksaw, and a lot of work. Those beasts will even run on 18" radius track!
i use petrolatum or light grease on the valve gear points- it will throw light oil all over the place at speed- especially the way harrison slathers em up.
@@tommurphy4307 What does Harrison got to do with your engines splashing its grease? Are you blaming him for your work on your engines?
It's no longer a question of "Can we make it run?" because we all know the answer.
The three dislikes are from the people who are jealous of SMT restoring an engine that hasn't ran for 50 Years
@@eternalmeltdown Does it look like I disliked his video? No
So true😂
And the 4.8k likes are from the people who love and respect him and his channel 😊
I couldn't imagine disliking Harrison he a fine young man indeed!
Hello smt from West Virginia Nice video I’m enjoying it Have a good night SMT
Thank you!
That’s a beautiful locomotive. Hope Adam is watching 👍
I am
@@Orangeshirt_Railfan Lol
@@SMTMainline thanks again
My son got a bunch of Those at train shows I always like fixing them just for the challenge, He can now fix them himself !thanks..
It's alive, got it running yesterday, Thanks for the info
Love these old diecast locomotives, years ago I bought at an estate sale Tyco/Mantua parts. So I like buy junk engines and making them run.
this guy buys whole boxes of this stuff- don't ya harrison?
The tumbnail made it look like you were fixing an actual locomotive
I thought that too 😆
One thing.. what was put in the nylon worm gear? Nylon gears should never be lubed ...they are self lubing and added lube will cause grit to be attracted to them... and then become embedded in it..... and slowly wear out the nylon gear.along with the metal gear it engages with.
I have that exact loco as part of a passenger set that’s also probably 50 years since it last ran. My recollection was that it ran extremely well, but needed a little pulse power to creep at low speed.
I wonder when we'll start to see brushless motors as replacements and for new locos.
we already have- at least I already have in the new N scale stuff.
@@tommurphy4307 Mine are brushed. Still running great though.
I have my old 2-8-2 Mikado from the same maker (Tyco/Mantua). Even clean as a goose, these things were just not geared or motored to do low speeds.
to have this old train run again it's like seeing a ghost train.
The only reason this video has 18 dislikes is cuz they didn’t want to have to wait 50 years to see this person receiving it and running on the tracks
First love your videos.. I collect those old tyco/mantuas and have over 30. Very simple loco easy to fix and maintain. There is a can motor available out there and if its put in and isolated ( plastic motor screw and tape between motor and frame) these can be converted to dcc. With the weight these locos have they are excellent pullers. If someone wants to know more or needs info on parts. Contact me.
too bad they were such cheap drives- they were so close to being something special...
Me and my uncle used your advice for cleaning the motor and the engine we bought off of eBay is running perfectly. Thanks alot!
Well I'm not Being mean but maybe you should either give it to somebody else sell it or melt it into a far useful thing like a knife and give it
I guess even in smaller scales like o gauge and ho scale steam locomotives are still harder to mantain than Diesels
Pretty much. More moving parts equals more things that can go wrong...
nice tutorial on breathing life into an old locomotive..👌 but please put some thin high density fome in the bottom of that tray to stop the damage to the paint work..👍