Firearms Facts: What is 5-R Rifling?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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In this viewer requested vide we discuss the differences between standard rifling and 5-R rifling that many consider superior in accuracy potential. Stay tuned, much more on the way.
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3 and 5 groove barrels distort the bullet less. grooves wider than lands help reduce pressure spikes. angled land edges (not perpindicular to the bore) help reduce copper fouling and make cleanup easier.
Robin Snodgrass better explanation than the video!!!!
Dug Kub Thank you, I do try...
Robin Snodgrass
Nailed it.
Yup, that's what I was thinking too.
So what about Marlins “microgroove” rifling??? It has 12 shallower narrower grooves. I understand the theory behind them, I just need someone to make high speed camera footage by inventing transparent steel!!!
These are the times I miss Barry the most. He would dumb it down and laugh it up!
Hey guys. I spent 21 years in a crime lab looking at bullets. There's tons of 4R barrels out there too. Also, almost every firearm S&W ever made was 5R . Notable exception was the first .40 S&W's - they were 6L.
I'm so freaking happy knowing there are people in this world that can afford to know what these two just explained.
Just bought a TC Compass in 6.5 Creedmoor. It has 5R rifling. I am amazed at the accuracy out of a gun for $330 with a $75 rebate!
Where is the video comparing the 20" vs 24" barrels on these 2 700's
Still really looking forward to that 20” vs 24” comparison you’ve talked about
I liked the point about not needing to nitpick about barrel rifling if you can’t shoot under an inch anyways, because for beginner shooters it seems like if you shot 2” groupings with a sub MOA rifle you would shoot 2-1/2” or 3” with a single MOA rifle, but this is not the case. I would say however that the rifle you feature in the video is a good rifle for beginners because of a point made earlier in the video: you won’t need to make many upgrades as you get better at shooting and you’ll be able to see the effects of accuracy upgrades. There really isn’t anything wrong with buying a gun that shoots tighter than you can, it’s just a little more expensive but most of the time buying two guns or one gun and swapping out all the parts will be more expensive anyways.
5R is like 223 Wylde----it's not necessary for a good barrel but take an otherwise good barrel and add it --- and they'll really be next level.
Mrgunsngear Channel I have a Aero Precision 223 wylde barrel. Does that make my barrel next level compared to barrel chambered in 5.56?
in terms of your rifles ability to burn through civilian and military ammo supplies without suffering from either erratic patterns or increased wear and tear then yes.
.223 wylde shines in a situation where the ammo you have access to is random and inconsistent, while not suffering significantly from said ammo randomness.
Stfu Mr. Clean
Ashley Weeks
Lol.
So my 5R bull in .223 wylde should do just fine then. After I build it of course.
I'm a writer and I need to study the technical side of guns, and this is really comprehensive. Good work boys!
I have a Rem 700 300win mag 5R that I changed the stock and put a accurate break on it and wears a older night force. I was always a 308 shooter. I’m loving the 300 5R. Nice set up ty for posting
My Smith M&P 15T has 1/8 twist with 5R rifling, free floated quad rail over 500 rounds so far and no failures. LOVE IT! I feel like you guys could make a good video on it.
Been over 4 years, how is that M&P doing?
@@Tux7.62 I sold it last year but it’s a fantastic rifle
600-yard cannon video?
Adrian Cassaro Now THIS is an idea I can get behind! Let’s do it baby!
You learn something new every day! Love these facts videos, thanks guys!
5R is awesome! BUT the mechanical accuracy of the barrel has more to with harmonics then the actual rifling. Its funny Johnny's Reloading Bench channel just got a bore scope in his last video and the rifling in his Thompson Center Compass has some of the shitiest rifling I've ever seen and that gun shoots sub moa all day! Once you get a load that matches barrel harmonics you will see tremendous accuracy! As long as the rifling is imparting sufficiant spin on the bullet.
Hard Target Right you are. Fuck that shit! Shoot the gun!
I know this is an old comment but I think it's important people understand this better. Harmonic resonance is very difficult to find and impossible to maintain. Rifling is something much easier to control, quality 5R and 3R barrels are going to resolve one of the several variables. The basics are quality 5R or 3R barrel, free float the barrel, bed the action, prevent fore end flex. Without these things, chasing barrel harmonics is a pointless endeavor. Not to mention little things like temp, humidity, barometric pressure, and so on will change how a load performs and thus miss that perfect resonance. In short, it's worth chasing but not until you have resolved everything else.
Amen
I've owned a 5r rifling melonite barrel ar15 for years , I never got rid of it because I was told 5r rifling is really nice to have , I never knew much about 5r rifling though and how much of a difference it actually makes in real world tests . Thanks for the video on it . If a test was ever done on this please point me in the right direction. Thanks .
@R P, is it a S&W M&P sport15?
Thanks for the knowledge and what the difference between a 5-R rifle is.Also the visual aids on showing the groves in the barrels that you mit have. Great Job guys IV8888 for life
Dammit you guys, now I have to swap out all my barrels.
Me too
What about whent they explaine 5RC.
Get an ai
Unlike the drawing you showed, most 5R rifling have bevelled lands rather than 90 degree lands in 6 land rifling. The bevelled edges don't dig into the bullet and also helps keep your barrel cleaner.
Ive got a Left Hand, Savage 10T, 6.5 Creedmoor, with a 5R Barrel. With good ammo it's shooting .5-.6 MOA. After 150 rounds the bore was almost spotless. Cleaned up with about 3 patches. Now if I can just get it to eject better...
Bumble Bee you don't need match ammo to group like that with a 6.5creedmoor. Most cheap stuff from Walmart or academy will group as good if not better than match from hornady or federal.
Bumble Bee how exactly are they being "sold a bill of goods"?
Shoot what makes you happy and if your semi custom hunting rifles make you happy then drive on... I also like to shoot Bullseye pistol and M1 Garand in CMP matches also...So...
Bumble Bee it's weird to see someone so upset over what caliber people prefer to shoot. My comment wasn't meant to offend but just stating my experience
Bumble Bee have you heard of the new 224 Valkyrie? Rumor has it that it can drop a moose at a thousand yards?! Best Caliber currently made....getchu one.
When the world record group is shot with 5R rifling,I'll start buying it!
Finally a 5r explanation..I have a M&P 15T with a 1/8 5r barrel and I had no clue what it meant
Pew Pew Moto which one? Quad rail or new mlok rail
Pew Pew Moto I got the quad rail one
I too have this rifle with the Quad Rail. It's awesome
Yeah I originally had the quad rail however I took that one out and put a Midwest industries 15 inch mlok rail
Shneider barrels originated P5 rifling, this is their description:
The second rifle form available, in addition to the above, is our innovation we refer to as P5 rifling. Some refer to it as "polygon" rifling. Most shooters when referring to polygon have thoughts of the European pistol barrels. Ours however is different but has similarities. Some of our customers call our rifling polygon and that is fine with us, however we call it P5. Have to admit the "P" in P5 does have an association. What is different? Most shooters have looked thru a standard barrel and observed the rectangular shape of the lands and grooves - very well defined by the sharp corners at the transition of land to groove and at the top of the land. The P5 however displays no sharp corners when observed. The sharp corners have been replaced with a radius. The net effect is better seal of bullet to barrel and less damage to the bullet preserving its integrity. The most profound result is an increase in bullet velocity. This is not subjective, a chronograph can measure it. In some instances an excess of 100 fps have been recorded. Another attribute is the barrels foul less. This is subjective; however our customers have been consistently reporting this observation without solicitation. What is telling is the fact that the P5 rifling represents 97% of our sales compared to the conventional rifling and we do not advertise
Both Obermeyer and Shneider are rarely mentioned outside Benchrest circles, But Krieger does give Obermeyer credit in their literature. I thought both Men deserved recognition here.
Your 5R pic shows rifling wrong. The 5R has tapered edges. Not 90 degree steps. This also allows for easier cleaning.
Then why do they call the video what they do if in fact they don't hold to what that video name (Firearm facts: what is 5r rifling?) would imply?, click bait?, or just don't truelly know themselves? please enlighten me I'm dying to hear the explaination.
@@looseballs1966 Dont die. Meladrama. I think they seem unaware of the tapered edges. Dont you? They said they are not technical expetts; in fact they are not. Peace
@@looseballs1966 By the beard of Odin, you are right Looseballs ! I've got the torches in back of the pickup, let's head to Moss Pawn to show these heathens the errors of their ways !!!
Thank goodness you were here to reveal to us the sacrilege of these pagan monster !!
Yup! You are correct, Sir!
Lol, I have a WWII Rock Island 1903-A3 Springfield with a pitted bore cut to 18.25" w/ Timney trigger in a full length glass bedded plain walnut Mannlicher stock and old (1974) fine crosshair Weaver 3x9 scope and is a 4 grove barrel. It has 4 hunting handloads in 150 gr & 180 gr (Sierra hunter & Nosler Partitions) that shoot under 1/2", usually clover leaf 5 round groups at 100 yds off the bench on bags. I haven't seen any 30-06's shoot that well for for under $1,000. Must be the 4 lands & groves :)
"Copper fouling" can be a good thing. It fills in the low spots and shuts the gas leaks when the bullet travels down the barrel.
Never heard of barrel polishing bullets before this video, guys. Thanks. I've seen chattering in my barrel's rifling (grooves).
Hey guys love your channel!! Just a heads up HENDERSON PRECISION just came out with a motorized case trimmer that is awesome I think if you have time you should check it out. I purchased one and it makes brass prep suck much less and it looks cool as a bonus
lol can hear my girls now..."mom!....dad is talking math and science again."
I want to see a video talking about the history of the Mauser action and all its variants, theirs sooooo many.
The matching glasses DO make u look smarter and more capable of answering the question! But is Chad smarter because his glasses are bigger?? Ha! Great job as usual. Wanted to know the answer to this question also. Thanks!! Keep it up!
Need some precision reloading before RUclips bans it!!!
COgunLover too late.
the comments are very entertaining after a good tech video
I think I saw on the Savage 5R rifling that the lands are cut more like a pyramid with angled sides as opposed to 90 Degree vertical sides.
Bigbore --- you are correct, they only explained half of what 5r is.
Because they are no where near the "experts" they claim to be, just like so many of the so called "experts" on joke tube.
I'd watch a rifling video for sure
Would be very interested in seeing a video on different types of rifling.
Have had a Remington SS 5R Milspec in .308 for years now. Has a few choice Seekins items bolted on and a Zeiss Scope, plus QuickSilver moderator. The only thing that matters is "it holds it there" whatever I do and pretty much whatever I feed it. Give it some Hornady factory and its under 1/2"; the "exactly what" is me. Just keeps on delivering the same year on year.
The point I really want to make is a well sorted rifle combination will give the harmonics that "hold it there" and whatever the rifling doesn't matter. Some barrels seems to do it better than others. Might be the barrel length, or contour, or just general stiffness. The 5r's seem to be pretty forgiving ammunition wise. Certainly my Mispec is working. To me its all in the overal harmonics to ammunition that give the result. Which is why some rifles just "behave" better than another. All that load development is to find that sweet spot; just nice if the chase isn't long. Better still if its found with a wide range of factory loadings.
Once you have a rifle "holding it there" then leave it alone, its a keeper. It would be nice if there was no luck involved, and the lapped custom barrels try to remove some of that luck, but call me old school but for all the science I still think there is a tad bit of luck involved with any barrel/rifle combo. Some rifles just want to shoot straight. 5R as a rifling has merit as well behaved, even with factory fodder.
Other than the fun of it I'm not sure a side by side test on two "sorted" rifles proves much other than how they play with the individual shooters that day. Nice to know what range of ammunition it keeps it there too.
But its fun, any excuse for some trigger time.
Firm believer in it being more about who does it than what it is
If I'm not mistaken, 5R wasn't even designed as some mega accuracy rifling, it was designed to stay cleaner. Mosins seem to do fine with three groove rifling.
I'd really love to see a video on the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum cartridge. I feel that it's been pushed out of the limelight by chunky rounds like .458, but it's a serious butt-stomping round. Great content guys!
Kenneth Compton the 375 hh Is a hard hitting round i got to shoot one at the range one day it's an awesome round and has a good thump
My father always used his Sako chambered in .375 H&H, never saw him miss, always bagged us dinner
Great video! I've been gaining knowledge about various guns and you guys have really helped! Thanks and keep up the good work!
There is a lot of renewed interest in 5R rifling, due to the new Thompson Center Compass, a "budget rifle", with 5R rifling and their MOA guarantee. I just purchased a T/C in .243 (6mm), and this lived up to the guarantee after shooting approximately 40 rounds, and seems to be getting tighter as I shoot it more. I also have a 60+ year old Remington 722 (.222 Rem) that easily shoots 1/2 MOA, and it also has 5R rifling.
Perhaps y'all could do a review on "budget rifles"? Thanks again for being my #1 video content channel
Don’t forget that boots Obermeyer developed the 5/R
The military started using 2 groove barrels instead of 4 groove barrels to speed up the production of barrels during WW II and supposedly the 2 grooves weren't as accurate. In the first half of the 20th century, the military used broach cut-rifling a modern, production-oriented variant of cut-rifling that addressed some shortcomings of the cut-rifling process. In the second half of the 20th century, button rifling replaced broach rifling for the manufacture of rifle barrels, with few exceptions.
The other technical part about the 5R you're missing is it has a "radiused" engagement side on the lands which creates more surface area and less friction since it's not square.
boots obermeyer is rolling in his grave with their explanation
My Criterion has only 4 grooves(which is their standard for 30 cal) that also are not square cut. And yes the muzzle velocities are fast.. also the 5R rifling is not square cut it is taper cut to allow better gas sealing and easier cleaning.
Have a Remington 700 magpul and it’s amazing it has 5-r rifling and a magpul hunter 700 stock and magpul bottom metal all from the factory.
Have a 5R Satern barrel from Brownells in my DPMS pattern AR10 I built, shoots .5 MOA and cleans up easy, couldn't be happier with it for the price.
Love my Criterion wylde. Definatly a difference in velocity and accuracy from my other barrels.
i knew this was going to be technical as soon as i saw chad wearing glasses. very interesting guys... thanks!
Got a pound and a half two stage trigger on my German 22lr. But i got two pounds direct triggers on my 222 and 243. I like it like that.
🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😇🇫🇷🖖🏻
5 groove rifling was developed for the Enfield P14, and carried over to the M1917. 5R is a polygonal land technique. I don't think y'all quite appreciate the difference. Polygonal rifling brings a lot to the table, even if only 4 - groove (the AK74 original pattern).
Remington’s best barrels ever made are ALL 6 grove, period!
Remington's match barrels are made by Bergara ;-)
Time for an update on this topic, guys, did you have the chance to see a Sabatti rifle with MMR ? Take a look at it, it’s very interesting. I have a few friends of mine shooting those kind of rifles and results are impressive.
Last week I couldn’t even spell the word barrel. Now I’m an expert.. Yay
Hmmm, just noticed the barbed wire assault bat hanging up. LOL. Nice! 😀👍🏼
Barrel quality is by far more important than the type rifling inside it, which also hold true when talking both speed and accuracy. I’ve had screaming fast and accurate 4 and 6 grove barrels as well as 3 and 5 grove ones that were neither fast nor accurate. In a factory gun it’s a roll of the dice.
I have a Faxon match series 5R in my LR308. with my hand loads it shoots .5 to .75” all day long. Pretty darn respectable for a gas gun.
Thanks I learned a lot from that one right on
Love Chad's new glasses. Very cool.
Would love to see the chrono test video!!
Its seemd like they drawn the 5r rifling wrong... They drawn it with 90° angles. But instead the angles for 5r are on purpose much wider to not create pockets for copper fouling.
I love these rifles!!!
Thank you, i missed these types of videos from you guys. Thank you for the information.
Thanks for the information brother. This is cool stuff I've always wondered what 5 - R ment.👍👍
Would like to see some best 100 yd group videos with any rifle bolt or semi auto and try to debunk that bolt guns can shoot better than a semi auto. I have an 18" Criterion on my 223 AR and love it.
Hoping to see an update on the comparison between the 20 and 24 inch rifles soon!
Idk where else to put this Eric but recommendation for a top 5 gun video? Top 5 most accurate guns for the money ("for the money" as in common calibers, "accurate" as in actual accuracy without regards to recoil patterns, cosmetic/comfortability, etc. & under 600 yards)
Does that trigger increase your rate of fire on the bolt action. LMAO.
Chris n Tracy Maze next the bolt knob will be to large and checkered, therefore it's easier to grasp and work the action making it a rate increasing device!! Haha. Nothing but flintlock muzzleloaders for us untrustworthy citizens! Even percussion caps are outta the question.
This is one of CNN’s most feared weapons: the fully-manual, non-automatic death machine. They can typically fire about 5000 self-guiding explosive rounds per second.
Caden plays idk if we can let people have access to black powder, it could be dangerous.
Bob Rusty I was gonna put that afterwards but didn't want to make the comment too long ha. Have a good day everyone!
Caden plays put a knurled finish on the knob you will be able to push one bullet with the next one out the barrel.
Taking physics into account then a 4 groove should prove to be even better.
That was a nice short, yet informative video. Loved it!
Still waiting on the factory vs aftermarket barrels on velocities and accuracy video
Cool. Just got the TS Compass 308 for 199 shipped after rebate. Has this 5-R. Rebate already spent on a 995ts. :D
Shoots good so far. Break-in time still.
I have learned something, thanks guys.
The other HUGE advantage of a hand lapped/polished barrel. Cleanup and lack thereof copper jacket fouling is MINIMAL! I have owned and shot factory hand-lapped Pac Nor, Krieger, Bartlein, and Odin Works barrels. And they all clean up so easily and quickly! The other benefit is that 5 R rifling, with its odd number of lands and grooves has each land opposing a groove. It also has radiused groove corners which lower start pressures.
This is good because I’m looking at getting the SPS barreled action from Brownells but the 5-R seems good also. I’m torn
That’s a very well informative video!
I don’t even own a firearm. And yet I am here.
So funny. Thanks for the video. Very informative and entertaining! Keep it up
You guys need to do more videos about this type of information....or maybe a bolt gun build.
Chad Kent?? mmm take care with green glowing crystals (also red crystals) That explain his accuracy, he shoot and in mid air correct the trajectory, and our terricole human eyes can't see that. :D Thanks for the video guys!! Greetings from Chile
I'd like to see that video about the military style riflings, this is interesting stuff for engineers and gearheads.
FINALLY another Firearms Facts! :D
you guys should trade the frames on your glasses
I have a McGowan hand lapped 6 Grove barrel that will shot 120 ELD match 6.5 creedmoor through the same hole. :)
My only concern about the 5R rifling is during the shooting, the bullet will be pushed to the grove side, causing the spinning bullet and the barrel no more concentric. Buy I don't know if this non-concentric thing affect the point of impact, it seems that bullets from a refined/polished conventional barrel are more stabilized.
Do best O/U shotguns
That would be a 6-7 figure video.
Great information, I did not know the difference. Thanks!
You should do more of these types of videos. Thanks.
What I have seen is that a cheaply made 5R barrel is a little bit better than a traditional six grove. From what I have seen of cheap bolt guns like the Thompson Center Compass usually outshoots other guns in it's class like the mossberg patriot.
Sounds like you guys need someone to set up a DOE to come up with the answer as to which riffing is best.
My tika t3 and blazer r93 with good factory ammo shhot half inch easy my Remington 700 inch with home loads all are better again , but tika n blazer are accurate strait out the box, great video wise words
I have a pair of 700 PSS rifles I bought in 1995, and they both shoot as if they are 40s, The 7.62 shoots under a 1/2 inch at 200 yards, and the 223 shoots under a 1/4 inch at 100 yards, could they be 5Rs, using 168 bthp match in the 308, and 52 grn bthp match in the 223, they both have 1:12 twist rates, and 24 inch barrels, and weigh in at 13-1/2 lbs each, this is with factory loads
With them glasses on Chad looks like the old man from shooter with Marky Mark
Groovy man.
not a big Remington guy but that is a sexy gun. Their QC still scares me too much to spend $ on one myself, never less they have a few cool options.
And what about the Multi Radial ?! Whoever is up in the Sabatti barrels.
Hi My old .303 only has 2 lands it shoots great.
Cheers Rory
Has the testing be conducted with these 2 Remington 700s guys? Keen to see how the two different length barrels went as I have one on order (24” Gen 2 in 300 WM). Cheers.
Iraqveteran8888 Hey Eric, I’d really appreciate if you guys would do a Ruger 10/22 meltdown video. Thanks
You forgot to mention the R part of the 5-R.... R is for radius... No 90 degree angles in the barrel