Wow I have NTSC and PAL systems and wasn't aware of the controller lock outs but I reckon I somehow never swapped out the controllers and just kept the proper controllers with the proper machines. Thanks for showing this Luke !
been watching a bunch of your older mod/repair videos, fun with changes over 7 years that you no longer have to keep watching the clock to see how close to 10 minutes you are getting. Itching to get my repair station set back up.
+Jam Iey ^ This is true. I buy PAL controllers even though I use Japanese systems, because here in Europe obviously you come across PAL systems a lot so it's nice to have one controller that works with anything.
lukemorse1 I have just acquired a few new old stock nes-004E controllers for cheap, and according to all the research I've done on Nintendoage, no modification is necessary to use the 004E controllers on NTSC NES consoles. They say modification is only necessary if trying to use ntsc controllers on a pal console... *I just received them in the mail and can confirm. No modification is necessary to use NES-004E controllers on an NTSC-US NES console. They work beautifully.
Is there any wonder that as soon as there was viable alternative platform to Nintendo that developers jumped ship? I bet when the Playstation came out the whole industry partied like there was no tomorrow after finally escaping the grasp of the control freaks over at Kyoto.
+Low Bryan get a hakko or a weller soldering station, they can be a bit pricey but you can find older models used on ebay for pretty cheap if money is an issue :) Either of those units blow away the cheap ones that just plug in to the wall.
That's interesting. All three of my NTSC NES consoles don't have those little boards behind the controller ports. They just have the wires coming out and going straight to the connector plugs.
I should point out there's three European NES models, the Mattel, the Nintendo and the "European". That one is a mid-eastern european model. Annoyingly they're ALL incompatible with each other.
Ahhh. sooo many variations of nes, fun stuff Larry. thanks as always man. i found that this nes plays the "A" and "B" 2 games i have so im content for now
***** It's a absolute headache if you're trying to collect PAL games. I found that out the hard way >.> Did you cut the 10 NES chip? Make it multi region :D
+Larry Bundy Jr Wow i didn't even knew that the controllers were region locked but damn even locked within the same region? It almost makes today's region locks look good.
I had no idea this existed , I have several pal systems and several ntsc systems and games and controllers of all regions . they are all multi region mod and I've never had any issue with any controller or game .
Interesting, I didnt know it was made as some kind of region lock for the controllers, I always thought they simply constructed the input ports differently on PAL and NTSC consoles so you would need some kind of additional pull-up resisitors or something like that in the controller then.
I had no idea about the controllers being security locked too, I live in the UK and bought an NTSC NES console some years ago to play the US games I bought, and I've been using a bog standard UK controller that I've had since I was kid with no problems. Strange.
Mine says nes version and this was main one sold in UK. Did know of Mattel one and thought that was the American one or a certain generation of the ones sold in America...
Very interesting video. I have been using PAL controllers on an AV famicom without problems so it may be a specific lockout between the American and European NES. Actually the American SNES had a controller lockout too for PAL controllers but you can still use PAL controllers on a Super Famicom just fine.
Nice video, on the other site when You wanna convert Pal controller to NTSC, You must remove two resistors (YES - they are installed already by Nintendo on the controller board) and it will work on NTSC console, If You wanna You can do a little switch on the board to change PAL/NTSC ofcourse :)
Hey Luke, off topic, but anyway do you have one of them cards for PC ENgine Duo that transfers game save from system memory to this card thingy, that you would consider selling? I just got a new PC Engine Duo and very excited to accessorize it! I never thought I would ever afford a PC Engine Duo so I am thrilled. It's refurbished too with all new caps.
sorry I bought the ntsc controller but i have a pal nes. how to modify the ntsc controller to work on pal nes? thanks ;) ps. i have nintendo mattel version
Nice stuff luke! Never had any problems with my PAL controllers on the NTSC machines tho, not sure if the lockout chip that i cut the pin on has something to do with it working. Going to Japan this April, would be awesome to meet you if possible? Tried to get hold of you last October when we went to tokyo for the first time, but i guess you where busy. I could bring you some more PAL stuff if you need anything? =)
For what i know, this was made only for later north europe (SCN) consoles. And the "004" controllers. So not very common issue :) The same region locks became standard after that (SNES).
Scandinavian Nes and Snes consoles are compatible with all Pal and NTSC games, but for some reason the Scandinavian Controllers for Nes and Snes are rare as hell so when I use a European controller on a NTSC Game it didn't work. Thanks for the help :)
Also something else to add. PAL 4 score's wont work with NTSC NES consoles or Controllers. I found that out the hard way and wasted a 20 minute drive to get my hands on a 4 score lol.
Thanks for the tutorial. I bought a power glove from usa and doesn't work because of the controller port on my nes pal. Do you think if i change only the port on the console(make the differents bridges on the diodes), it can works?
my game works but when i plug in the controller like on the mario duck hunt combo it switched between the two without me touching anything is it the controller or the system plz help :(
+lukemorse1 With the discovery of all these other means of copy protection/region locking.. have you considered trying it on your NTSC console with Ninja Gaiden/battletoads again?
the *controllers* are region locked?! definitely seems harder to hack than the carts (where you really just needed an early copy of gyromite or stack up or one of those other early titles with the built-in converter. :P )
Intersting to know what Nintendo were doing with all this stuff to stop imports and pirates, it may have been a mess but they were clearly keen to not repeat Atari's mistakes.
This is helpful for me in case I ever import an ntsc nes into the uk I can use my pal controllers on an ntsc system. Now I need a mod to switch between ntsc and pal video. Not gonna happen though because of the different ppu used.
WOW! I didn't know this. But I don't think there's much of a problem using PAL controllers on NTSC NESs, at least there isn't with mine which I have had since about 1989 brand new. In the UK I've bought the normal NES controllers they sell here, NES-004E, they work just as well as my NES-004s do.
There are many versions of the NES around europe that have different variations of these lockouts. To my knowledge the UK consoles had this PCB on the back of the controller ports that locks out all "NES-004" [and so only accepts "NES-004E"] controllers. But our consoles here in Scandinavia don't have that PCB (controller region protection). Also there is of course the whole PAL-A and PAL-B region locks on the games. Bleh. It's one big mess xP
Hi there, is there a way to mod NTSC or cheap knockoff NES Controllers to work on the PAL NES Console? I would prefer to not mod my NES, if it is possible.
Hey dude! it's look great! but I have a one question, if I do what you did with output controller in console, it avaible for zapper and nintendo max pad ?? (NTSC zapper and max on Pal console) Please, answear to me ! I'm very unhappy, because I bought zapper, max and a few nintendo controllers and it doesn't work with my NES :( Greetings from Poland!
+Donnie (eimaXe) yeah he is. there was a video of him showing japanese convenience stores and he ordered a pack of marlboro lights, the only reason i remember is because i thought it was funny that the words for marlboro lights in japanese was marloboro lighto lol.
I had no clue that they did this, what a strange step to take, seems totally unnecessary. Never ceases to amaze me all the weird stuff Nintendo did back in the NES days. Great video though, certainly something that people should know.
so weird never heard of this. good thing I have a converter cart but I have a famicom av that I need repaired but just don't have the money to send it to someone
Interesting I've only had pal nes stuff so I never knew about the controller stuff. I've never really liked the nes at all though, I prefer the famicom for various reasons.
I can understand why companies region lock games, as it's due to different countries having different laws and such, but region locking a controller is got to be one of the most stupid things I've ever heard, oh, and the SNES/Super Famicom has the same issue.
You soldered the resistors incorrectly. Don't repeat what he did. At best, your controller simply won't work. At worst, you'll break your console. Resistors need to be soldered as in this video ruclips.net/video/Fkp24UudNfo/видео.html
nintendo only got worse at security. At least you have to do some soldering with the NES, the Wii you can hack with just some files on an SD card and a few button presses on the Wiimote....
Knuxfan24 well, no. you also have to put the program on the SD card - just like the Wii - and then run it, so it's the exact same level of easy, sony didn't have it "worse" in any way
0M9H4X With the Wii you need to know how to set up something like Letterbomb, with the PSP, you only need to go & copy one thing then run it from the XMB with no need for any configuration.
+0M9H4X Wasn't GameCube game data pressed to discs in reverse order? At least that slowed down people from reverse-engineering how to run their software.
Wow I have NTSC and PAL systems and wasn't aware of the controller lock outs but I reckon I somehow never swapped out the controllers and just kept the proper controllers with the proper machines. Thanks for showing this Luke !
haha, i never knew either Mark till I started working on this one. learning new things everyday lol. thanks as always my friend :)
I use pal controllers with my ntsc system without any issue
I have two of this beauty NES, still working after almost 30 years. Amazing. Thanks for the video, you did a great job!
been watching a bunch of your older mod/repair videos, fun with changes over 7 years that you no longer have to keep watching the clock to see how close to 10 minutes you are getting. Itching to get my repair station set back up.
This mod was performed on a German console for anyone interested. Hopefully that will help
+lukemorse1 You meant West German?
+lukemorse1 I thought you could use PAL controllers on NTSC NES machines but that NTSC pads wouldn't work on a PAL system.
+Jam Iey ^ This is true. I buy PAL controllers even though I use Japanese systems, because here in Europe obviously you come across PAL systems a lot so it's nice to have one controller that works with anything.
Are you sure that's Japanese O.o Famicom has single 9pin connector for up to 4 controllers, unless you mean AV FC :)
lukemorse1 I have just acquired a few new old stock nes-004E controllers for cheap, and according to all the research I've done on Nintendoage, no modification is necessary to use the 004E controllers on NTSC NES consoles. They say modification is only necessary if trying to use ntsc controllers on a pal console...
*I just received them in the mail and can confirm. No modification is necessary to use NES-004E controllers on an NTSC-US NES console. They work beautifully.
Interesting. I wouldn't have thought that the controllers are region locked as well. Great video once again Luke.
Very interesting! I was aware that some of the SNES console have region protection on on controllers, but didn't know the NES had this also!
Is there any wonder that as soon as there was viable alternative platform to Nintendo that developers jumped ship? I bet when the Playstation came out the whole industry partied like there was no tomorrow after finally escaping the grasp of the control freaks over at Kyoto.
Thanks for the video. I successfully converted a PAL console to use a cheap Chinese NTSC controller using your instructions.
I envy the performance of your solder iron. Mine goes haywire with the solder refusing to melt anywhere but slightly up the tip of the tip.
:(
+Low Bryan get a hakko or a weller soldering station, they can be a bit pricey but you can find older models used on ebay for pretty cheap if money is an issue :) Either of those units blow away the cheap ones that just plug in to the wall.
+Ad am I was using a goot KS40 handed down from a friend, you suppose its a tip problem or the iron itself?
That's interesting. All three of my NTSC NES consoles don't have those little boards behind the controller ports. They just have the wires coming out and going straight to the connector plugs.
I should point out there's three European NES models, the Mattel, the Nintendo and the "European".
That one is a mid-eastern european model. Annoyingly they're ALL incompatible with each other.
Ahhh. sooo many variations of nes, fun stuff Larry. thanks as always man. i found that this nes plays the "A" and "B" 2 games i have so im content for now
*****
It's a absolute headache if you're trying to collect PAL games. I found that out the hard way >.>
Did you cut the 10 NES chip? Make it multi region :D
+Larry Bundy Jr There is a more harmless way for bypassing the chip than cutting. :)
+Larry Bundy Jr Wow i didn't even knew that the controllers were region locked but damn even locked within the same region? It almost makes today's region locks look good.
LeleSocho
Nintendo were neurotic as all hell in the 80s, look at all the hoops publishers had to jump through to release a game!
In scandinavia (SCN) we did had the same controller as NTSC system (NES-004) while NOE (germany, spain i think) uses NES-004E :)
I had no idea this existed , I have several pal systems and several ntsc systems and games and controllers of all regions . they are all multi region mod and I've never had any issue with any controller or game .
Interesting, I didnt know it was made as some kind of region lock for the controllers, I always thought they simply constructed the input ports differently on PAL and NTSC consoles so you would need some kind of additional pull-up resisitors or something like that in the controller then.
I had no idea about the controllers being security locked too, I live in the UK and bought an NTSC NES console some years ago to play the US games I bought, and I've been using a bog standard UK controller that I've had since I was kid with no problems. Strange.
+Richard Crump Same here. It might depend on the exact models of the controller and console.
Mine are 004E and 001 respectively.
Mine says nes version and this was main one sold in UK. Did know of Mattel one and thought that was the American one or a certain generation of the ones sold in America...
Great stuff Luke. I enjoyed your messy setup. Very homy. It does kinda make me curious as to what was wrong with the system.
sooo many things lol, thanks as always man
Just a bit of trivia. I have a pal upright/top loading NES and I got a 2nd controller from USA (dog bone type) and it works on the pal system
Very interesting video. I have been using PAL controllers on an AV famicom without problems so it may be a specific lockout between the American and European NES.
Actually the American SNES had a controller lockout too for PAL controllers but you can still use PAL controllers on a Super Famicom just fine.
Nice video, on the other site when You wanna convert Pal controller to NTSC, You must remove two resistors (YES - they are installed already by Nintendo on the controller board) and it will work on NTSC console, If You wanna You can do a little switch on the board to change PAL/NTSC ofcourse :)
Hey Luke, off topic, but anyway do you have one of them cards for PC ENgine Duo that transfers game save from system memory to this card thingy, that you would consider selling? I just got a new PC Engine Duo and very excited to accessorize it! I never thought I would ever afford a PC Engine Duo so I am thrilled. It's refurbished too with all new caps.
sorry I bought the ntsc controller but i have a pal nes. how to modify the ntsc controller to work on pal nes? thanks ;)
ps. i have nintendo mattel version
Nice stuff luke! Never had any problems with my PAL controllers on the NTSC machines tho, not sure if the lockout chip that i cut the pin on has something to do with it working. Going to Japan this April, would be awesome to meet you if possible? Tried to get hold of you last October when we went to tokyo for the first time, but i guess you where busy. I could bring you some more PAL stuff if you need anything? =)
Interesting stuff man, first time I've ever heard of controllers being region locked on any system!
indeed David, this was an interesting find for me as well. thanks for stopping by as usual
7 years too late, but maybe I get an answer. Would this modification allow using an NTSC Zapper in a PAL NES?
For what i know, this was made only for later north europe (SCN) consoles. And the "004" controllers. So not very common issue :) The same region locks became standard after that (SNES).
Scandinavian Nes and Snes consoles are compatible with all Pal and NTSC games, but for some reason the Scandinavian Controllers for Nes and Snes are rare as hell so when I use a European controller on a NTSC Game it didn't work. Thanks for the help :)
Also something else to add. PAL 4 score's wont work with NTSC NES consoles or Controllers. I found that out the hard way and wasted a 20 minute drive to get my hands on a 4 score lol.
Thanks for the tutorial.
I bought a power glove from usa and doesn't work because of the controller port on my nes pal.
Do you think if i change only the port on the console(make the differents bridges on the diodes), it can works?
Awesome mod man! Simple but effective.
thanks Dan man!
I haven't had any issues playing on PAL controllers on a NTSC NES....
my game works but when i plug in the controller like on the mario duck hunt combo it switched between the two without me touching anything is it the controller or the system plz help :(
+lukemorse1
With the discovery of all these other means of copy protection/region locking.. have you considered trying it on your NTSC console with Ninja Gaiden/battletoads again?
the *controllers* are region locked?! definitely seems harder to hack than the carts (where you really just needed an early copy of gyromite or stack up or one of those other early titles with the built-in converter. :P )
Intersting to know what Nintendo were doing with all this stuff to stop imports and pirates, it may have been a mess but they were clearly keen to not repeat Atari's mistakes.
Is that problem just with OEM Nintendo controllers or 3rd party as well
This is helpful for me in case I ever import an ntsc nes into the uk I can use my pal controllers on an ntsc system. Now I need a mod to switch between ntsc and pal video. Not gonna happen though because of the different ppu used.
WOW! I didn't know this. But I don't think there's much of a problem using PAL controllers on NTSC NESs, at least there isn't with mine which I have had since about 1989 brand new. In the UK I've bought the normal NES controllers they sell here, NES-004E, they work just as well as my NES-004s do.
will the pal controllers still work after bridging the diodes on the controllerport?
Yes dude, I just did it and now I can use PAL and NTSC controllers, wich is great!
There are many versions of the NES around europe that have different variations of these lockouts. To my knowledge the UK consoles had this PCB on the back of the controller ports that locks out all "NES-004" [and so only accepts "NES-004E"] controllers. But our consoles here in Scandinavia don't have that PCB (controller region protection). Also there is of course the whole PAL-A and PAL-B region locks on the games. Bleh. It's one big mess xP
lol, awesome information though, that will help out a lot I think. i had no idea about all of the different variations of pal consoles either.
After you make this mod to the machine , are you still able to use the original controller without removing the mod ?
Yes dude, I just did it and now I can use PAL and NTSC controllers, wich is great!
Just out of curiosity what soldering iron do you use?
Hako :)
Hi there, is there a way to mod NTSC or cheap knockoff NES Controllers to work on the PAL NES Console? I would prefer to not mod my NES, if it is possible.
Not all EU NES console are region locked for the controllers.. But most german consoles are (NOE)...
Hey dude!
it's look great! but I have a one question, if I do what you did with output controller in console, it avaible for zapper and nintendo max pad ?? (NTSC zapper and max on Pal console)
Please, answear to me ! I'm very unhappy, because I bought zapper, max and a few nintendo controllers and it doesn't work with my NES :(
Greetings from Poland!
6:44 Which reminds me... Hmm, *are you a smoker?*.
+Donnie (eimaXe) yeah he is. there was a video of him showing japanese convenience stores and he ordered a pack of marlboro lights, the only reason i remember is because i thought it was funny that the words for marlboro lights in japanese was marloboro lighto lol.
Thanks, I had inhaled with that weld gun on a soldering by accident, *it was a no go.*
+krich451 actually im not anymore, i quit 2 years ago :)
the gold case on the control panel is a soldering pen tip cleaner
nope, soldering pen tip cleaner man
+lukemorse1 My hero!
6:40 Lead in the mouth--isn't that how Renaissance artist Michelangelo died and countless other Romans driven mad?
Will the PAL controller still work after this mod? Is the Zapper (Orange vs. Grey) region locked too?
Yes dude, I just did it and now I can use PAL and NTSC controllers, wich is great!
Are snes controllers also locked? I've bought some from Japan for my pal console
+Zelda Treasury no they are not locked
you should make a controller with a switch on it to switch between NTSC and PAL
Strange. My factory new NES-004Es work fine on my NTSC front loader.
+EX Heihachi PAL controllers work fine on all systems :) I just got one of those new-old-stock ones too, great stuff
I like these videos.
I had no clue that they did this, what a strange step to take, seems totally unnecessary. Never ceases to amaze me all the weird stuff Nintendo did back in the NES days. Great video though, certainly something that people should know.
The 60-72 pin connectors on those carts was bad enough! 😛
rad video!!
so weird never heard of this. good thing I have a converter cart but I have a famicom av that I need repaired but just don't have the money to send it to someone
Dat intro tho =3 awesome
im about to toss and atari jr, but you wont reply on facebook
do what... dont toss it
i havent received any mail recently that i could find but ill double check
i originally said i wad a ton of game boards among other thing in your post on facebook
A security measure on a.controller ??? Nintendo went full looney tune with this action.
your video's are cool
Interesting I've only had pal nes stuff so I never knew about the controller stuff. I've never really liked the nes at all though, I prefer the famicom for various reasons.
I can understand why companies region lock games, as it's due to different countries having different laws and such, but region locking a controller is got to be one of the most stupid things I've ever heard, oh, and the SNES/Super Famicom has the same issue.
I can't believe they region locked the fuckin controllers, what a bunch of bastards. good info thanks!
Nice ! :D
I want to send Luke and "3rd hand" and small vice. :-)
You soldered the resistors incorrectly. Don't repeat what he did. At best, your controller simply won't work. At worst, you'll break your console. Resistors need to be soldered as in this video ruclips.net/video/Fkp24UudNfo/видео.html
nintendo only got worse at security. At least you have to do some soldering with the NES, the Wii you can hack with just some files on an SD card and a few button presses on the Wiimote....
+0M9H4X Sony had it worse with the PSP, don't even need an exploit. Just run a program, boom. Instant Homebrew.
Knuxfan24 well, no. you also have to put the program on the SD card - just like the Wii - and then run it, so it's the exact same level of easy, sony didn't have it "worse" in any way
0M9H4X With the Wii you need to know how to set up something like Letterbomb, with the PSP, you only need to go & copy one thing then run it from the XMB with no need for any configuration.
+0M9H4X Wasn't GameCube game data pressed to discs in reverse order? At least that slowed down people from reverse-engineering how to run their software.