Trying to understand West Vlaams
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- Опубликовано: 6 май 2024
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Als West-Vlaming is dit toch wel echt grappig om te zien 😂
My grandpa could only speak his dialect (from 'de achterhoek'), he thought when he spoke to us that he was speaking Dutch, but it was just a slightly lighter version of his very heavy dialect. My aunts and uncles could all speak both the dialect and Dutch, but they spoke a more modern version of the dialect. So I could understand my aunts and uncles, but not my grandpa. General rule with him was, he is probably telling a joke, so when it sounds like a punchline, just laugh. It was pretty much fool proof! Also when he thought he was speaking English he was actually speaking German and when he went on holiday to Denmark he was better understood by the local Danes than his own grandchildren, he made lots of Danish friends on the long distance train there XD.
SOme Danes understood muy ABN Dutch too when I conversed with my son, even though they never heard Dutch. They were amazed as they thought it was a Scandinavian language or some form of German. On the other hand I could not return the favour. I could read Danish right away, but their pronounciation threw me off big time.
there's a lot of uncanny similarities between Danish and West Vlaams ... probably because they have shared roots and the west flemish tend to preserve their language rather than change it.
Some examples (Danish-West Flemish)
flaske - flaske (bottle)
skuffe - skof, skuvve (drawer)
tallerken - talloere (plate).
I'm Dutch and I could understand about the same amount of West-Vlaams as you. It's hard for me as a native speaker, so you did amazing as a non-native speaker.
this is almost word for word what I wanted to say
Same here. Native Dutch speaker and damn it's hard to understand...
For me personally she understood more words than I and I am Dutch
Hey Casey, as a West-Vlaaming, I was highly anticipating this video. Although I had hoped it to be a bit more in debt I still enjoyed very much you trying to understand that little snippet. I would like to point out that while this was very much West-Vlaams, it also was just one variation of it. While maybe similarities are abundant, the coastal variations differ very much from the central, or south one, or the variation spoken in the Westhoek. In West(or all of)-Vlaanderen there is such a thing as a languages appointed to cities or towns itself as in, Brugs from Bruges , Oosten(d)s from Oostende, Poperings from Poperinge, Iepers from Ieper and Kortriks from Kortrijk to give just some examples. These are all West-Vlaams but sometimes sound and are very different dialects in their own right. This is one of the reasons I've come to love our dialects more and more as I've grown older and gotten learn more about each of them. I very proudly believe West-Vlaamse dialects are among of the juiciest languages spoken on the planet.
There are some very talented and creative artists in that sing in West-Vlaams if you should be interested. Like: 't hof van Commerce / Flip Kowelier / De Dolfijntjes / 't zesde metaal / (and a bit more rowdy) Kleine Sanders, just to name a few. Worth checking out.
If you should be wanting to explore more dialects, the other side of Flemish Belgium has a spectacular example. The hardcore and old school Limburgs language is very non comprehensable for an un-trained individual. Lots of German influences in their words and tones. Maybe worth having a look at.
Very enjoyable to see someone not native Dutch enthousiastic about our not very wide spread language. Keep up the good content.
Great info, I find it super difficult to find good information on these smaller dialects and without being able to travel there it makes it tricky. I love getting resources and answers from you guys and it certainly helps me to have a better idea of the fluidness of dialects and how varying they can be. Maybe being able to find some resources and cultural aspects of these dialects like you mentioned music will help these videos to go into more depth and give other people a sense of wonder over these dialects too :) Great comment and great feedback!
@@caseykilmore This organization has many resources on the above mentioned "Limburg" dialacts. www.veldeke.net/
I have had the privelage of growing up in different regrions of the Netherlands (and being shown lots of Vlamish television when I was younger). Therefore I find that I generally only need a minute to adjust my ear to many of the dialects beneeth the Rhine river. However, I have been working in the Amsterdam metropoletan area for the last decade, and some of the Northern accents are harder for me, like West-Fries or Gronings.
Love your content, and curious to your settling in 's Gravenhage :-)
My heart gets pumping as well whenever I hear someone interested in Dutch, let alone regional/local dialects 😍 It's a whole wide world you're diving into, because as said, almost every town and village has its own distinct dialect and there's not much info available online or in books, they're mostly to be experienced 😅😊
West Vloams represent
As a Bruggeling I'm very excited any time is see something that represents our unique regional language
Jonas explained it very well here and yeah definitely good music recommendations that are ace to have a listen to
Also recommend Preuteleute, Willem Vermandere,
De Sauna from twestvlams gemiengelt ventekoor and
Skwon meiske van Niels.
Oh also Bruhhe Bruhhe from no exp
For a non native, it's admirable what you could pick up! I loved your lightbulb moment when you realised she said 'schoon vlaams' 😅💪
sho vlams, das toch hoe ik het zeg x).
Hahaha i'm from west flanders and you did pretty well. The biggest thing I think is that we "swallow" a lot of our letters in words so you can hardly hear them. For example we pronounce every "g" as a "h" en words that end in "en" like "zoeken" we pronounce like zoe'en. And also we have a lot random words that we throw in everywhere hahaha
I'd say the k in zoeken is a silent k. I know what you mean.
goan da mutn zoekn zi, upzoekn, das toch teminste hoe ik het zeg x).
As an Afrikaans speaker I was right in there with you haha. I was also lost at most points. But if you let the video play a bit more it started to make more sense. Some things she said was so close to Afrikaans and then suddenly it sounds like French or something
What really stands out in west-flemish, is that we conjugate YES and NO as a verb almost. Like if someone would ask you if you could give them an apple, they could answer with one word 'Joak' for 'Yes I' (without repeating a verb). Or when you ask a group, they could answer 'Joaw' for 'Yes we', same thing for No: Ni-enk, Ni-ew
Schoon in Flemish would be mooi in Dutch. They are interchangeable, with schoon coming from the Franconian (like German schön), and mooi from Frisian moai
shone wi, das toch hoe ik het zeg x).
In Flemmish (Vlaams) “schoon” means “beautiful’ and not “clean”. In this context “schoon-Vlaams” means “standard Vlaams”. Like in German they call standard Germans “high german”. I am from the north of the Netherlands and for me West-Vlaams used to sound really strange. But I love the music and poetry from Willem Vermandere and it helped me to understand it better.
I'd really say in this context it means clean(sed) as in clean language.
In this context, she does mean schoon in the context of "clean", implicitly implying that dialects are unclean. Which was the case as dialects were/are repressed in those days. As she describes from her schooltime - in the class they had to speak "proper" dutch by the teachers and on the playground they would speak plat/dialect.
@@miguelnollet3056 no, "schoon" in Flemish always means beautiful (mooi), never clean. Clean in Flemish is thé word "proper". In West Flemish 'sch' is replaced by a 'k' sound, and last letters tend tot drop of: so it becomes 'sko' or 'skwo' Vlams.
@@jeroencrabbe ja sorry, ik spreek het nog maar 40 jaar. Hoe kon ik zo dom zijn /s
I challenge you to check out the dialects in Kerkrade and Vaals, I live 30 kilometers from there and most ppl that live near me can't even understand them,lol :)
You right it is so hard to understand that dialect I revert to abn eventhough I’m a true Limburger.
Westvlaams is not only spoken in Belgium, it's spoken by old people also in France Flanders and in the Netherlands (Zeeland)
Couple of years ago I had to participate in project near Brugge, in general the Flemish people easily switched back and forth from standard Flemish/Dutch, but there was this one consultant/expert, she’s Irish and she was so proud of her skills in Dutch she insisted on using dutch as much as possible, but she was completly unintelligible, half west Vlaams, part Dutch and with a huge Irish accent. The poor woman was so proud, and she got a company-paid language course out of it :)
yes "shwo" vlaams is standardised flemish, she's actually saying "schoon vlaams" (clean flemish)
edit: YES you got it!
casey as a flemish guy i'd love for you to explore some of the flemish dialects its totally wild! :D
There are a couple of great Flemish television series available on streaming services like Netflix where the actors speak these dialects that might be fun to check out. And on top of the language they give a glimpse of the culture (albeit a little caricaturized) as well. Series such as ‘ Eigen kweek’ , etc..
They speak very polished "west-vlaams", however
Schoon also can mean beautiful. That´s old fashioned in the Netherlands, but in Belgium het Museum voor Schone kunsten means The Arts Museum. She also mentioned speelplaats, which means playground. There children were speaking Westvlaams to each other and were not corrected by supervisors.
"voet" in this context is a contraction of "voor het" :D omg its so much fun watching you do this :D
Hoppa! Toppertje weer dit 😌. Erg erg vermakelijk, vreugde! Danke 💪🏽🧠✌
I'm from Oost Vlaanderen and I can barely understand it. Note that Scho Vloms= Schoon Vlaams = Standard Flemish = Standard dutch = AN. It all means the same.
I'm from West-Vlaanderen and spoke and speak the dialect from Oostende (coast). I must say I too had quite difficulty understanding the lady; less than you obviously, but still... She definitely has a strong accent.
Hey Casey, It's easier to understand if you don't cut every 3 seconds ;) Schoon Vlaams= Standaard Vlaams. I don't understand every word but she is telling she can talk standard Vlaams if she meets people from a different region. But her kids and grandkids will speak West -Vlaams with her. She thinks West-Vlaams will stay alive as most people from the region speak the dialect (although there are several versions) . And when she went to school she was not allowed to talk West Vlaams unless in the playing time outside in the school yard.
Other Flemish dialects: (1) Dialect fragmenten in Vlaanderen - RUclips
I agree, cutting every few words made it harder to understand as you can't infer words from the general context of the sentences as much.
There’s this one video that shows a few different accents (it’s almost 7 minutes) :) it’s quite interesting as well!!
My mother grew up in Zuid-Beijerland and married my father who lived in Nieuw-Beijerland. Both are small villages in the same area, just 7km between them. Yet I can hear differences between the 2 dialects spoken there. Example: "morgen" is pronunced "murgen" in Nieuw-Beijerland and "mergen" in Zuid-Beijerland.
Ik denk dat je Nederlands vrij goed is. Ik had ook grote moeite met haar te verstaan. Ze had het over kleinkinders die ze schoon Vlaams leerden maar dat die ook plat praten.
West-Vlaams is het enige Vlaams dat zelfs op de Vlaamse omroep ondertiteld wordt, dus het is doodnormaal dat er ondertitels staan op YT 😛
Haha! I'm from Veurne and it is really funny to observe what you think you hear and what you make of it. 'Plat sprek'n = speaking dialect, the opposite of Schoan Vlams. The woman in this clip is probably from 'Bachten De Kuppe' like me. 'De Kuppe' is the geographical region which was flooded in the first W.W. to halt the Germans (idea from Karel Cogge). Bachten De Kuppe is "behind the tub", the bit that stayed dry.
I once went to a puppet show Toone in Brussels. It was also in Flemish. Did Not Understand A Single Syllable. Of course, not being able to do some lipreading didn't help
Hi Casey :) I liked your video, and you did surprisingly well, especially for a non-native speaker! But... if you use someone's video, could you put a link in the description?
Wow. It takes alot of effort to get all the lady says.
Subtitles are useful here.
Before my father died he was a volunteer in Het Streekmuseum Hoekshe waard. And he started the dialectgroep there.
He loved the dialect we speak here and he made the "Hoekschewaards woordenboek" with help of others.
Here, just below Rotterdam, we have different sounds and words too.
Sometimes it is hard to write down because it makes no sence in modern Dutch.
"Wadden broekie" means "What a nice little boy"
"Hebbie die gaite nog?" means "Heb je die geiten nog?'
And some more samples from the book.
Ben je gek geworden - Hè je je harses op 't besteebord laete legge
Dacht ik al - Doch 'k al
De kans voorbij laten gaan - D'n haering over 't hôôd gezaaild
de schapen staan allemaal in de wei - de schaepe staon aomel in d'n waai
de wegen komen allemaal bij elkaar - de wege komme aomel bij mekaor
Een opstandig mens - Een kwaoien errepel
heb je haast? - mô je gaon hooie?
Heb je slaap? - Hè je vaok?
Het glimt / glanst heel erg - 't Glim azz 'n hondekullechie in de maneschijn
Het regent hard- 't Regen hoekvurrekies
hij is erg slecht - hij is zôô slecht as pitwaoter
Hij kan me wat - Hij kè me de moord bobbere
Ik ben alleen thuis - Ik het 't hok ruim
Ik ben alleen thuis - Staat dubbel
Ik ben even weg - 'k bin effe d'n hort op
naar bed gaan - in 't koesie duike
Op dit moment geen zin in werken - Hij het t'n Baaierlander gezien
volgens mij - volleges mijn
zit niet zo te wiebelen / woelen - zit niet zôô te jakke
Besides that he put together a folksong evening (Volkslied avond). And that was held for a few years.
An evening with old dutch songs and stories from this island told by local people in dialect.
Anyway. The book is available. So if you want you could get a copy yourself.
"Hoekshewaards woordenboek" it is called.
It is crazy how the dialect used to differ from village to village here on this small island.
5:58 "klein junges" (grandchildren I think - lit. "small young ones")
I worked in the neighborhood of Kortrijk. So I speak and understand it well.
Another fun fact to show how weird west-flemish is is that we congujate the words yes and no. So "ja" can turn into "joak, joam, joat, joaj..." depending on who you're answering for. It's super weird and I didn't even realise we did this until someone pointed it out.
nink / nim / nint / ninnie / nins. also to make very sure to say no / banink / banim / banint / baninnie / banins or baninnikgie / banimgie / banintgie / baninniegie / baninsgie. these last translating to: I / we / it / he / she very much didn't !!! ( the 'gie' at the end means 'you' and is added to, like in 'how dare you ask me this' )
@@jonascoeman hahaha exactly! West-flemish is so beautiful
As someone who speaks West-Flemish, I loved this :D But even I sometimes have to pay attention when older people are speaking.
I loved your eureka moment with 'skwon'. It's definitely the West-Flemish version of 'schoon', but we also use it for 'beautiful'. 'Skwon meiske' = 'Schoon meisje' = 'Pretty girl'. Some other fun stuff about West-Flemish:
- Cutting off the verbs: we don't pronounce the soft e at the end. So zeggen becomes 'zeggn', spreken becomes 'spreekn', and gesproken becomes 'gesprookn'. Compare it to saying the English verb 'listen' quickly, where the e is not always pronounced clearly either.
- G/H confusion -> West-flemish people don't distinguish between these two sounds. It's all H's. Try making us say 'muggengeheugen'. Or are we saying 'goud' or 'hout'? You'll never know.
- Conjugating yes and no - yeah we actually do this.
e.g. Heb jij dat gedaan? (Have you done that?") - Joak (Yes, I have). Nink (No, I haven't.)
Heeft zij dat gedaan? (Has she done that?) - Joas (Yes, she has). Nees (No, she hasn't.)
West-Flemish is a world language, always will be
Well, locally we use "jaodaohèkhedaen'. Or just daohèkhedaen. Sounds like 'dat hek gedaan''to most Dutch, I suppose, but it's "dat heb ik gedaan" :).The other two things you mentioned are just like in Zeelandic. Except maybe that goud = houd, hout = out and oud = oud. Aijenoe niedienkt dàk hin houd van out oud wil maok'n :)
also 'spreekn = klapn' and 'gesprookn = geklapt'
I'm just saying... 'gezei es gezei'
@@jonascoeman True! But it was what the old lady was saying around 4:20, so it was in reference to that.
@@xenopuslaevis1740 sorry if I made the wrong impression. I was not in any way trying to correct you. Your examples are perfect. I was only hoping to add something to the conversation.
@@PendelSteven ik kom uit de buurt van Utrecht en wij zouden het bijna hetzelfde zeggen: dahekgedaon of da hettik gedaon (afhankelijk of je wilt zeggen dat je het al gedaan hebt of wilt benadrukken dat JIJ het gedaan hebt en niemand anders). Maar eerlijkheidshalve, het Utrechtse dialect hoor je steeds minder. Wees zuinig op je dialect. Het is zonde als het verdwijnt want het komt nooit meer terug.
I'm from the western side of Belgium, it's quite fun, but also difficult at times, a lot of regions have different accents x). for example: I like that song. I would say, korn da lidje gern. xD.
This dialect is the reason why I think Afrikaans - pure linguistically seen - is not a separate language from Dutch, but just a dialect from it. And I am Flemish; just not West-Flemish.
Afrikaans actually is closer to Dutch than many dialects. Declaring the boundary between a dialect and a language is often more politically than linguistically defined.
@@thomascastelein5476 Indeed, I actually couldn't have said it better myself, man. Afrikaans is indeed, as you said, more a like politically separate language instead of linguistically. For example, the dialect of my hometown is less related to Standard Dutch than Afrikaans is (according to official linguistic & scientific and research).
Some people also say that a language is "a dialect with a standardized written form". I don't know if I agree (probably not), but there is some truth in it. At the moment I am teaching Afrikaans speaking people and Dutch isn't easy at all for them to learn funnily. (Probably because they haven't heard/seen Dutch as often as we do)
@@thomascastelein5476 That's probably the reason indeed. But I would also describe Afrikaans as a dialect with a standardized written form (and than taken as the Official language of South Africa). I totally understand that it's probably not very easy for Afrikaners to learn Dutch, but that's probably just the same for me if I were to learn, say West-Flemish or Gronings...
(So I agree with you ;) )
I'm from Antwerp, sporting a pretty heavy local dialect, but well capable of talking standard dutch (with an accent obviously) and as a person with friends in W-Vl, I must say I'm very impressed with how much you understood of what the woman was saying. One of these W-Vl words she used a lot was "ossan", which I believe translates to "altijd". I still have no idea where this word comes from, because it's only used in W-Vl as far as I know.
Had eens zweedse studentes in huis en voor "altijd "zeiden ze assan
@@dimitriwinderickx8156 interesting...
Each Belgian will always pronounce 'w' like the Brits/Americans/Canadians/Aussies (you)/etc.
Same as the way they'll always pronounce 'v' as a sort of mix between a 'v' and an 'f', not like the Dutch who'll always go for the 'f' sound.
Belgians will always pronounce 'ij' like our letter 'a', sometimes they'll stretch that into something like 'eh'.
Their 'r's are generally tapped (not rolled!!!), similar to how we Scots do, though around Brussels the 'burr' will appear and thus sound exactly like the Dutch make it sound.
For the crazy 'ui' dipthong, well, that's easy for us Scots: it's just the same as when we say 'about'... which is similar to your 'a boat', let's say. So we Scots say 'house' exactly the same way Belgians say 'huis'.
And now the 'g' sound... Belgians will pronounce that mildly, unlike the Ducth who always seem to hawk or gob with those 'g's!!!!!!!!
The "ui" sound is pronounced like when you stumble in your sentence and looking for your words like "yesterday i went shopping and then after....uhmm..i went..".catch this "uhm " sound without the "m"..and there you have the correct "ui" sound..
Stop it! I definately pronounce the v. You're referring to Dutch who live North of the Great Rivers! And even then not all of them can't pronounce the v. And certainly not on NPO Radio 1. At least they should. I won't garantue it, since after all NPO is situated North of the Great Rivers. And I hail from South of the Great Rivers, to be clear.
@@PendelSteven Have you ever heard a Briton or a Frenchman pronounce a pure 'v' sound???
I heard you Flemish try that and it always comes out like a mix between a 'v' and an 'f'. The Northern Dutch straightly go for a pure 'f'.
Sorry.
I found that fairly easy to understand. It's a lot like Westfries (spoken in the area roughly between Hoorn-Enkhuizen-Medemblik), swallowing more or less implied parts of words, `sch` becomes `sk` with a soft k, `oo` and `aa` both become like `oa` or Å in Nordic writing.
PS `Schoon` means `netjes` or `mooi`. Example `schoon meisje` is a pretty girl and in this video `schoon Vlaams` may be substituted by `Her Majesty's English` if applied to the English language.
Try the dialects from the south of Limburg. Maastricht, Heerlen, Kerkrade, Vaals, Sittard, Venlo.
I understand most of Vlaams but that’s probably because I’m used to understand several dialects from Brabant and Limburg.
Translation previous messsage: Related to Flemish dialects you have to see the video in the link, in dialect from the city of Aalst
I work at the Facility Desk of NS International and all the international trainstaf passes by daily. One of my direct collegues is comming from Oostduinkerke and speaks West Vlaams. Because my parrents are from Zeeland I can understand some, but not that much. Just this week we were taking about the Flemmish language with other Belgian collegues. They also cannot understand much. Each village/city in Belgium speaks a slightly different form of Flemmish. The further away from the Dutch border, the more difficult to understand up to the point where the language is so much different from standard Dutch its almost impossible to understand.
The lady in the video is explaning and thats why you can follow her, but among each other they squeez the words together like a chain UNUNDERSTANDABLE
On the other side of the border in France they also spoke a Flemmish dialect up to the beginning of the 19th century. That dialect is being reintroduced at school. And also the French there differce much from standard French.
Try the Dialect from Aalst, plenty of musiq in that dialect, especially with their carnaval culture, i grew up 8km from Aalst.
When I was a student I worked at a dairyfactory for a few days in north Groningen. During break I could not understand the men talking to each other. And I grew up less then 75 km from there…
On the ‘schoon’ topic, being Dutch, not Flamish, I would like to add that in the southern parts of the Netherlands ‘schoon’ means ‘mooi’ like the German ‘schön’. Could it be the case that the connotation of ‘schoon’/‘shwo’ in (West-)Vlaams is ‘mooi’ in the sense of ‘netjes’ - ‘proper’ in English?
spot on!
Plat Vlaams is spoken in cities too.
I'm a French speaker living right at the border with west vlaams and it just downed on me that I've been told my entire life I should learn dutch (and don't get me wrong I'm glad I did) but it has virtually no use in understanding people from just beyond the border. I heard that some classes to learn the language are available in the french Flanders (near the coast) to facilitate the integration of french people from the border but I doubt I've found any class available here in Belgium
I'm glad to see that not understanding west vlamingen is not just a me thing
Explain that you're a french person who wants to practice the dutch language, most West-Flemish people will understand your situation and will probably help you. Try some younger people.
Oh boy, I gotta see this! :-D
Its a bit late but you said in one of your videos of things you don't miss in the Netherlands is the food scene.. you were not impressed.. how did you like lab071 ? :)
Beeing from flanders, i really loved this video😅
Antwerps would be cool too
3:35 ...ejje de tale mee ...was the only thing I think I understood ..I am from Ghent East Flanders
'voet' = voor het . Damn, ik vind dat je echt heel goed je best deed in het verstaan van mijn dialect, Casey! chic!
wow, you are really amazing in understanding, really! ;)
as one from Antwerp who speaks "Antwaarps" i can say that i understood almost everything about the clip... she started of with the difference between Oostende's dialect being different from other west-vlaams, then about talking it to her children and grandchildren, and she talked about preservation of the language too (like being it all written up in books)... the rest is yours to find out (or ask a westvlaming) I've had the luck of being around a lot of dialects in my life, and i understand almost everybody... only some true dialect words hold me back, but regular speak is no issue for me. I was also suprised that you discovered "schoean" as "schoon".. in antwerps dialect "schoan" is how we say "schuin" which almost sounds the same :)
For my work I am in the Ieper area often. When I hear them speak their dialect it is a foreign language to me. I just give up. And I advise you to do the same :-)
lmao 😂 this is so funny! I know exactly what she's saying in the dialect
Me too 😂
As explained in comments in the other video it is the same family of Zeelandic - and littler known, Rotterdam accent qualifies as part of it. Okay, the very edge of it, but still. 4:16 I'd say that's our "ay" as opposed to "ee". It's more in line with the English ay or ey, ey?
7:43 wèzienier dao hewend. Dat zijn we hier gewend. Of nou ja: hier zijn we dat zo gewend. You can definately hear that phrase in my town's dialect.
plat [region] means dialect of that region brabanders, zeeuwen en limburgers use this two.
Germany uses also the word "PLatt"
You can improve your understanding of the West Flemish easily by reading (out loud) on the West-Flemish Wikipedia:
vls.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voorblad
i am from west-vlaanderen, and this dialect is quite extreem. it's not that harsh for younger people. we shorten words alot. for example praten=praatn
Younger people typically don't speak west-vlaams anymore.
Many parents don't speak dialect to their children anymore (out of shame ?) Instead, they speak a language thats somewhere between dialect and dutch, but actually is neither.
This unique dialect will die out in a few decades as a result
Plat is the word dialectspeakers often use to refer to their dialect or regional language. Plat praoten. it is a neutral meaning, which it does not have in General Dutch. platvloers - low, ill-mannered. Also in Germany, in Lower Saxony call their regional language Plattduutsch - low German. Have you ever the Kirchraots dialect? (dialect of Kerkrade, Dutch Limburg) Personally I find that the most difficult Dutch dialect.
Dude i barely understand this myself because im from the other side of flanders haha i have to listen very closely and concentrate. Especially when they go full on dialect
Next you should dabble in Old English. It's fascinating because Dutch speakers understand it more easily than native modern English speakers!
I have a question. A collega of mine is a non native Dutch speaker. She needs to improve her Dutch as soon as possible, to keep her job. Do you, or anybody in the comments, know a course that can improve her basic Dutch to the level she needs. It would be even better if there is a possibility to personalize the course to the job.
Ik heb een vraag. Mijn collega spreekt Nederlands op het niveau NT2, maar voor het werk moet zsm haar spreekvaardigheid verhogen. Weet een van jullie een cursus hier voor? Liefst eentje die we kunnen aanpassen naar de werkgerelateerde communicatie problemen.
3:49 No, you heard the word taole ;). But that means taal, yes.
4:46 wàokè. Perfectly normal Zeelandic-West-Flemish for "wat ik heb". This is why some people in my secondary school not from around here called the dialect where I'm from Swahili. It certainly sounds like it, doesn't it?
I relate, in Canada houses are built to keep out the cold, not the heat 🥵
Bloody warming! I hate it! I live inNL and it gets warm so easy nowadays, at the expense of our winters. This summer is extremely wet and usually would have been very cold, now it is still ranking in the top 10 of all times..Inspite of rain, rain and more rain.
@@Serenoj69Where I live in Canada the summers are getting drier and drier which is nice because it’s lots of sunshine but the winters are getting more wet. And we get more summer forest fires so that’s a negative.
30 yrs ago I had to interview a couple of farmers together with a classmate of mine. It was somewhere in the Achterhoek (eastern Gelderland). I would ask the questions but my classmate would write down the answers. I had no idea what they were saying but he did.
For context: I’m from the Betuwe (western Gelderland) where the dialect is very Brabantian-like. In the Achterhoek the dialect is a variety of the Low Saxon language. So technically the dialect where I’m from is a Dutch one, but Achterhoeks is a dialect of what officially is a different language. The funny thing is my classmate was Dutch, but had grown up in South Africa and spoke Afrikaans aswell as Dutch and English. Knowledge of Afrikaans helped him to understand Achterhoeks relatively easily.
I might be wrong, but I think Nijmegian is even technically Brabandic. On the other hand, in Budel, Noord-Brabant they speak Limburgian. Also Afrikaans is derived from 19th century Gronings, so that's closer to Achterhoeks than regular Dutch yes.
@@PendelSteven South Gueldrian (mainly the riverine area of Gelderland but also into Germany as far as part of the Ruhrgebiet) is usually considered seperate from Brabantian. However they are very close and some do indeed see South Gueldrian as part of the larger Brabantian group. One of the features in support of larger Brabantian is that Brabantian is the only other dialect where you can have a double subject in one sentence. (For example: Hedde geld? = Heb je geld?…. Hedde gij geld? = Heb je jij geld?). Personally I think South Gueldrian is Brabantian at its core but because it borders Hollandic-Utrechtian to the west and north and Low Saxon to the north and east it has become a bit of a mix.
For example in Tiel, where I’m from, it’s all more Brabantian-like (even the start of a soft G), but the vowels (the E!) can sound pretty Utrechtian-like.
@@speerboom Ik ben geen taalkundige, maar ik zou het zo klasseren: "Hedde geld" = "Hebt ge geld" maar dan de t wat verzacht tot d en de b en g die mee geassimileerd worden. "Hedde gij geld" = hetzelfde maar via een soort tussen-e om de t en de eropvolgende d afzonderlijk uitgesproken te krijgen, daarna toch weer verkort door de t weg te laten. Ik zou het niet direct op een verdubbeld onderwerp steken als speciale language feature...
Gelijkaardig misschien: "nee, kheb ekkik geen geld" of "kemmekik" soms. Nu doe je me toch weer twijfelen hoeveel keer "ik" dan voorkomt in dat antwoord...
@@Vugoseq Volgens wiki (Zuid-Gelders) is de constructie Hedde gij wel degelijk een tautologie (dus een herhaling/verdubbeling zeg maar). Maar er staat idd niet bij dat dit alleens in het Zuid-Gelders/Brabants voorkomt. Misschien wel alleen in de gij-vorm, en in het Vlaams in de (ekk)ik-vorm.
@@speerboom I've lived in Eindhoven for seven years. Doa hedde doar ook ;)
I can understand the dialect really good since I grew up with people speaking it, I don't speak the dialect that daily anymore.
Now I just speak modern Dutch since people don't understand dialect.
ben toch wel een trotse West Vlaming 💛🖤
Belgian dialects are very interesting. West Flemish has an intense useage of the h- sound instead of g. Gesproken -> Hespro-e. (they drop the k on occasions aswell). In Antwerp the dialect uses the same shorting techniques but they don't change to many sounds. Gesproken -> Gespro(we)ke. And then in brussels the language collides with french, spreken sometimes becomes parleren, and sometime it stays the same. If you learn just textbook dutch from the Netherlands, Belgium can easily ruin your confidence as a new learner. Mor al bij al, 't kan der me door, en me een bekke moeite klapte zo mee.
Pleaaaase respond to the dialect of Zuid-Limburg (mostly Kerkraads)
In a not so-far past, I once went to become a teacher. I was actively discriminated against, even though you could hear that others were from other regions in Belgium. But only I was discriminated against, up to the point I quit. I am from West-Flanders, and the teachers made animal noises and throwaway signs. Also, to make it even easier for you, there are similarities with English. Same as English, we "conjugate" yes and no. E. g. "Yes, I do" in Dutch is "ja", but in West-Flemish it's "Ja'k", or if you would translate it to English, it would be "yes, I". And, there are instances where "no" means "yes".
I'm Flemish (from Antwerp). I could bearly understand what she was saying. You did better than me 😅. Btw, people from West-Flanders are always subtitled, 'cause otherwise too many people won't understand them. There is a famous sketch about it. Search for 'Gerrit Callewaert'. It's hilarious!
I understood everything she said as a non west Flemish talking person.
I'm from Ghent, once there were people speaking West-Flemish behind me and I thought they were Danish for a full minute, but lately I've been exposed to a lot of west-flamish at uni, for some reason my course has a ton of west-flemish students
It's the preparation for annexation. Gent will become Hent
@@cptbenjaminwillard We will change the name to Nieuw - Brugge to really rub it in
The dialect from Groningen is the only one I have real trouble understanding apart from plat Vlaams. Even Africaans with it's double negatives makes more sense to me. Vlaams is hard because it uses other words for objects and actions. Cleaning for instance "Schoonmaken", in Flemish is kuisen. When I was a kid, I lived on an island that had a dialect hard to understand for outsiders as well. "Mosquito" in Dutch is "Mug", but the local word was "Mezek" for instance.
Due to television Dutch has become more like the Utrecht accent over time, whereas what we call Dutch really is the accent of Amsterdam and area as that used to be the most important area for a long time. Having lived abroad for a long time, it really struck me that what we used to call "Kakkers" language (Posh), has now become the standard pronunciation. Social mobility also has changed the situation. If you could hear not only what region people were from, but even the village beforehand, those kinds of tribalisms have lost their function.
It is not as important anymore for the local boys to easily find the outsider that was going after their women, but I think at a larger scale that logic also plays part in a lot of the racism and xenophobia of today. Even the language used by gen Z is yet another way to differentiate with others and I wonder if sociologist have ever looked into to the tribal urge of humans to be able to discriminate others and how that works in creating all those dialects and subcultures.
Oost-Vlaams versta ik nog wel, en Antwerps ook, maar West-Vlaams klinkt voor mij (geboren en getogen Hollander) als Swahili. Zelfs Afrikaans begrijp ik beter dan West-Vlaams. Hulde voor je poging! 👍
Do a reaction to Petjoh which is a heavy dialect spoken by Dutch-Indonesians, it's a dying dialect but very interesting to hear!
If you want to give Gents a shot, here is a video: ruclips.net/video/HcFyMO0oP7s/видео.html
(check also the channels other videos of other dialects)
Just to let you know, she even cleaned up the west-flamish dialect a bit. Probebly because she was interviewed.
Je wilde graag warm weer dus hier is het. Het was gewoon een buitengewoon koud voorjaar. Maar dit is het dan ook. We hebben hier geen woestijnen e.d. Gewoon plakkerig warm zomerweer zonder airco.
Aan het Vlaamse toontje ben ik wel gewend door alle Belgische kindertelevisie in m'n jeugd maar dit is echt dialect en een beetje binnensmonds. Nou moet ik je zeggen dat een boertje uit Zuid-Holland of een platte Hagenees ook moeilijk te verstaan is. Een aanrader nu je toch in Den Haag woont: de stripboeken van Haagse Harry ;-)
As a speaker of low saxon i do not understand Flemish either, or Amsterdam dialect for that matter.. :)
I living in Belgium and 60 procent of the west-vlaams dialect I don't understand too . and by the way oliebollen in flemish is smoutebollen .
I was in this Facebook group for dreadlocks. A person started writing in some variation on Dutch I didn't understand and I said could you maybe do this in general Dutch. Then we had a whole discussion. Apparently it was West-Flemish. And they kept on writing to me in that dialect and I kept not understanding. I do not know what they thought, of course, but they might have been very hurt in their pride. It was a generic Dutch-speaking page.
And yes, I can understand most people speaking generic Flemish just fine.
Next up: Limburgs :D?
6:00 Kleinjonges: kleinjongens, dus kleinkinderen. Grandchildren. 7:20 I'm not sure if I've heard 'opvoeden' shortened as that either, but that's what she means.
5:51 Enmun kinders oak allemaol, oa > En mijn kinderen ook allemaal, hoor. That's like it's said very close to my house. Probably some people in my Dutch town even say it like that. But oek instead of oak.
Onmiddellijk opzoek gegaan of iemand al vermeld had "Alles Kan Beter - Rute98"
ruclips.net/video/sx-tTMIByb8/видео.html
Like some other people here suggest you might try the Kerkrade (Limburg) dialect. Kerkrade in their own dialect is Kirchroa. The dialect is Kirchroas. Even people living in other parts of the province of Limburg have problems understanding it. This must be one of the most difficult ones for sure. Please don't pause as quickly and often next time... :-)
If it's any consolance, I'm a native Belgian (Antwerpen) and I don't understand West Vlaams either.
ben van oost vlaanderen en kon toch wel 50% verstaan
I understood almost everything. If not everything.
Wat zou je ervan denken om een naar Achterhoeks te luisteren en direct daarna naar Kleverlands en vergelijk beiden. Ik ben benieuwd wat jouw mening dan is als buitenstaander.
Zelf heb ik Achterhoeks altijd één van de lastigste Nederlandse dialecten gevonden, zeker mensen op leeftijd waren volstrekt onverstaanbaar, jongere mensen hadden een minder sterk accent. Dat was wel mijn persoonlijke ervaring, want ik denk dat West-Vlaams wel degelijk lastiger te verstaan is dan Achterhoeks, maar ik ben zelf gewoon minder aan West-Vlaams blootgesteld dan aan Achterhoeks.
En wat Kleverlands is... dat is heel interessant en moet je beslist eens uitzoeken! Want Achterhoeks en Kleverlands waren oorspronkelijk namelijk hetzelfde, alleen zette op een bepaald moment iemand een grens neer.
achterhoeks is gewoon nedersaksisch, en heel goed te verstaan..
West Vlaams and “Zeeuws” (dialect spoken in Zeeland province) have the same base in accents. Zeeuws is more influenced by Hollands so less “extreme” than West Vlaams. The changes in pronunciation in West Vlaams and Zeeuws 1) often the end of words are cut off (like: “maar” becomes “ma”, “want” becomes “wan”). 2) The “h” is not pronounced, and a “g” becomes an “h” (like: “gaan” becomes “haa”, “heel” becomes “eel”. 3) Vowels are changed or “turned” (like: “zee” becomes “ze-a”, “huis” becomes “uus”)…. And the worst part for non- West Vlaams / Zeeuws speakers, words are taken together when spoken, like in Zeeuws they say “Mo’k’ok’aen” meaning “Moet ik ook hebben”, or “Oemoemenoe”, meaning “Hoe moeten we nu”… Good luck ;-)
Don't forget classics like "hihinheheuhenhi" meaning "ge hebt geen geheugen gij" (you don't remember a thing), or "jommajakkendoeté" meaning "ja maar ja ik heb het niet gedaan é" (I can assure you that I did not do that), "kirrekewére" meaning "keer eens terug"
I find it hilarious that you do a better job understanding Afrikaans than West-Vlaams (which still is to be expected, though. #Antwerpeuh #SorryWestVlamingen ;) ) It's hard if you don't know these constructions like "Toen 'ebbe-k-ik (toen heb ik)" or words like "Schoonvlaams", which is a really old word for standardised Dutch spoken in Flanders. Want Nederlands spreken we hier niet, hoor. In Vlaanderen Vlaams! (face palm + sigh). Vlamingen zijn heel grappig als je ze een beetje kent, dus als Corona iets minder is zeker is afkomen. Heel tof voor op een weekendje. (Skip zeker Antwerpen niet, want wij hebben ze echt het lélijkste dialect...! ;) :) Grappigste toren ('t moesten er eigenlijk twee worden maar we hadden geen geld meer voor de tweede... We hebben er dan maar een puntdaksken op gezet. #Onzelievevrouwekathedraal). Maar eigenlijk gaat die prijs toch naar Mechelen. Ze gingen daar de hoogste toren ooit bouwen. Mooi plan, maar halverwege was 't geld op. En 't is er wat aan te zien. ;-) #SintRomboutstoren. West-Vlaanderen heeft naast het meest onverstaanbare dialect ook de bakermat van het kapitalisme (want dat hebben de Bruggenaars uitgevonden in de 14e eeuw...). Antwerpen is wel gaan lopen met de prijs eerste beursgebouw. In de geschiedenis. #AntwerpeuhIntensifies ('t Is misschien wel opgefikt tijdens de Spaanse furie of zo. Eerst eens opzoeken...). Ik ben nog nooit in Vlaams-Brabant geweest, dus ik zal hen even beledigen en over Brussel beginnen. Mooie stad wel. Hoofdstad van Europa en zo. Grapjes terzijde, echt een aanrader! Net als Gent trouwens. Ik mag dan wel Antwerpenaar zijn, ik moet toch toegeven dat Gent echt een mooie stad is. Ik kom daar veel te weinig. Laatste keer was het op een boot op zonne-energie in de Schelde (want blijkbaar loopt die ook door Gent. Who knew...). Ik ben nog nooit naar het Gravensteen geweest en ik vind het een schande! Ik die zo van geschiedenis hou! Welke provincie hebben we dan nog... Ik ben aan 't denken, maar ik weet zo niks wat dat daar ligt... Misschien Hasselt of zo... Neenee, sorry Limburgers. I love you. Ik weet oprecht niet wat er allemaal in jullie provincie ligt, maar ik kom wel elke keer graag af. Wel altijd even wennen aan de taal. Soms zijde (voor Casey: ben je > zijt ge > zijde) dan in zo'n plaats waar da' ze zo traag spreken da' g'in slaap valt voor 't einde van het woooo... En dan zijt ge ineens opeenplaatswaarhetspreektempomegahoogligt en het zo als NederDuits of Deutschländisch begint te klinken (met ich ben Simon en zo). Maar nu ben ik mij aan het verliezen in de nutteloze zij het charmante details. @Casey, zeker eens afkomen als de kans zich aandient! 't Is de moeite. ;)
Het lijkt me logisch dat Casey het Afrikaans beter verstaat dan het Vlaams. Aangezien Afrikaans van het Noord Nederlands is afgeleid. Overigens het Nederlandse taalgebied had een wereld macht geweest kunnen zijn als de Vlamingen ook de moed hadden kunnen opbrengen om tegen het Spanje van Philips II in verzet te komen of in 1830 zich niet door de Wallonen gek hadden laten maken om zich van Nederland af te scheiden. Daar door stellen Belgie en Nederland niets voor in de wereld. Maar gezien hun mentaliteit denk ik dat de Vlamingen daar niet wakker van liggen, wat overigens hun goed recht is.
@@baldwin9180 Qua klanken zal het inderdaad dichter in de buurt liggen. Ik vond het gewoon grappig omdat Afrikaans echt een andere taal is. Kleine correctie wel: De Zuidelijke Nederlanden zijn wel degelijk in opstand gekomen tegen Philips II, maar zijn daarna door oorlog en slimme politiek terugveroverd door Alexander Farnese. Ook later, in het Verenigd Koninkrijk der Nederlanden, hebben we ons niet gek laten maken door de Walen, maar door koning Willem I, die de Vlaamse industrie meer in functie zag van het Noorden (Nederland nu) dan een doel op zich, heel autoritair optrad, van plan was de staatsschuld die hij had opgebouwd voor 50 % met Zuidelijk geld te betalen en onze cultuur en taal (toen overwegend Frans) niet respecteerde. Voor de Walen was dat waarschijnlijk nog erger, dus hebben we elkaar daarin gevonden.
Aangaande dialecten in vlaanderen moet u zeker eens de video op deze link bekijken, in dialect van Aalst. ruclips.net/video/HyiNceeGd_4/видео.html
Flemish is not realy the hardest there are some that are harder as there are some dutch speaking enclaves in northern france
The old language border was much further south close to the city of Caen .
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Franconian
It's very frustrating when you pause so often, after just 2 or 3 words. I can't understand any of it because of that.
Some elderly people in nothern France still speak like that too.
Plat vlaams = dialect. Schoon vlaams = AN
Ik woon boven Amsterdam en ik kon dit ook erg moeilijk volgen.
Are you enjoying Den Haag , it is where my people are from.
"Kleerkinders.." kljeinkinders = kleinkinderen. Geweldig. 🤣
Let her speak and you'll understand it better, I think. It takes a bit of getting used to the sounds
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5 53 "en mijn kinders ook allemaole "' standard FLEMISH would be " en mijn kinderen ook allemaal" 6 01 " en mijn kleinjoengens ook' "en mijn kleinkinderen ook' with joengens she means both grandsons and granddaughters