BRM vs FLOW: On land flight test in 12kts & 18kts
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- After the back-to-back upwind/ DW session, I felt the need to fly these parawings on land to show their ability to ride using only the front lines. This is important for when we want to de-power the parawing while riding that is what need to be able to do. Releasing the rear lines allows more wind to flow through the parawing rather than it being held by the canopy/ generating power. These two parawings displayed very different abilities to do just that.
Check out the video to see how they fly and let me know what else we could be testing out there!
Hope you find this video helpful in your DW journey!
Don’t forget to subscribe for more foiling tutorials, down winding tips, and parawing techniques to elevate your water sports skills. Leave a comment or question below, and share your own experiences with foiling!
Enjoy the vibes!
Gear:
@amosshapescustomsurfboards2460 Bullet 8'2/ 19/ 115L
@boardridingmaui7338 4.0m Maliko
@FlowParagliders D-Wing 4.2m
@codefoils 1130S/ 135/ Medium fuse/ 80 (+) mast
Wind:
12kts - 18kts
Rider:
81kgs (kite, wing, DW, prone experience)
Keep the comments coming as it helps me with ideas for my next video!
@foilrat on Instagram
#Foiling #Parawinging #DownWinding #winging #kitefoil #WaterSports #ExtremeSports
The stability of Flow does look good for these overpowered situations. I have the BRM and think that flutter/collapse can be managed OK by not flying just on the front lines and keeping a little tension on the rear lines, it does mean you have more bar pressure and taking this load with a harness keeps it manageable (also seems to go really hard upwind in this mode). Maybe a flip side of the design differences is the very light weight of the BRM parawings. The BRM feels a bit like an Aluula experience which in light or variable winds means it's pretty easy to relaunch and keep flying. Maybe a case for arguing smaller sizes (lots of wind /overpowered conditions) suit the Flows and bigger sizes (medium / lighter wind) suit the BRMs better. Looking forward to demoing the Flows and testing in mixed conditions. Thanks for all the great content, it's been super helpful.
Tks dude. There’s definitely lots of merits in what you are saying. I can see these brands converging quite quickly. As in the Flow adopting lighter materials and the BRM improving their design. For now I would stick with what you said 🤙
Totally agree with this take. You don’t have to go into that basically flagged trim on the BRM. It’s easy to avoid, and while unstable I suspect it has a lot less pull than the Flow. So it’s useful when really over powered. Looks like the flow flys similar to the BRM before the bridle mod. The Flow may be more user friendly and is certainly priced better but I would not dwell on the stability unless you can confirm the flow has equivalent depower range without getting unstable.
I completely agree with you @majamase. I reckon - It really comes down to choosing the right gear for the wind and gust range / conditions on offer on that day / that spot / that season. On the right day, I think the Maliko is fantastic-the small flutter is easy to handle, and I can adjust my trim to find that perfect breakpoint. It’s such a joy to ride when conditions are steady and I’ve picked the right size.
However, when the wind is wet and gusty, going from powered to extremely overpowered, the flutter can really pack a punch. That once mild flutter starts to really bite, sometimes yanks the bar right out of my hands. Because the power is so volatile, it can be nearly impossible to get it back under control and find the sweetspot when its like that.
The Flow D-Wing seems to offer a bit more comfort in this regard, at least from what I’ve seen in the videos. For me, gusty winds are the main issue, but I’m sure other places have similar challenges where the wind changes from thermal effects or wind shadows as you go downwind, so I bet riders in those areas feel the same way.
Where I live, in the west of Ireland, it’s common to have an 8 to 15-knot gust range in the winter. In those conditions, the Maliko can be a real fight-it’s just not made for that kind of weather. Then again, kiting in those conditions is also a challenge and an inflatable hand wing would probably be easier to handle, after all that was probably one of the big reasons I changed to (inflatable)winging years ago.
Thanks for another great video. Excited to get the Flows. if possible in one of your future videos please lay the BRM over the Flow to show the relative size and aspect ratio comparison 🙏
Can do brother
Great video thank you 👌😊
No worries, glad you enjoyed it!
Great Review, thanks for sharing 👍🏄🏼♂️
No worries! Shoot through any questions you might still have
Good review BRM and D wing ❤.Excited to get this Design Flows🎉 Can you update performance of both parawings
I’ll do my best 🤙
Great video. this collapsing thing and inability to depower the BRM really makes it less ideal
Not an issue. Either crank upwind harnessed in properly or go downwind on bumps with it packed away. I never find myself needing to balance in a front line scenario. The stronger the gust, the more I hike over and dig in.
Great information for the parawing. This looks like an evolving area for foilers. Can you also comment on upwind performance of both parawings?
the flow 4.2 rips upwind very stable
Yea absolutely! Check out this video 🤙 ruclips.net/video/3lJtdwY5puk/видео.htmlsi=EUONvcRE7ic2CPuF
Provided you have the appropriate BRM pwing for a given wind range, I do not see this as much of an issue. I have the 5.1 and I know 18 knots is basically the top of the wind range going upwind. If I am going downwind then, 20+ knots is not an issue. Above 18knots, I need a 4m for upwind comfort, above 25knots I probably need the 2.9 .....
I am still looking forward to trying the Flow. 🙂
You've got the right idea, find the right size for the conditions!
They both feel very different
Im interested in the 3m based on your advice but would like to see how you find it first!
Just got a 3m and the 5.5m to complete the quiver. Will review them asap
@foilratvids I can see some wind in Melbourne tomorrow perfect for the 3m test 👌 😀
Hahahah stalker! I’ll be out there 🤙
@@foilratvids Any preliminary feedback on the 3m windrange and handling? 😅
That first one looks like a $150 trainer kite from 2006.
😂
Have you tried using the flow with a mountain board on land?
@@martynholder1971 I haven’t personally but I saw this guy online: instagram.com/reel/DFhTc-tz5D4/?igsh=OHp1a295ZHNza21x
Great video. Have to used the Ensis para wing and if so how does that compare.
@@jockharcourt9936 I’ll do a 3 way comparison video soon. I have to ride the Ensis a bit more to get a feel for it
Yes, it would be better while learning if the BRM was more stable completely depowered BUT... it may be that the BRM still flys further forward in the window with a tiny bit of brake tension than the Flow does solely on the front lines and brakes off completely. There is also the original line configuration available on the BRM for learning. I'd like to see a comparison of two experienced riders doing at least a 5km upwind leg. Your previous video showed the stability difference in use much better. The Flow still folds a bit when flown on the front lines. You might try moving the center line attachment point of the BRM closer to the front of the bar. This should maintain more tension on the center line set. I've no skin in this game and have an Ensis on the way which looks like crap but it'll work for learning (and maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised). Your comparisons in this particular video are irrelevant and unfair to the BRM in my opinion. I felt your previous videos offered much more relevant comparisons.
Thanks for your message. I’m trying to make a point that while this anti collapse feature is not required to go upwind efficiently it is underestimated how much easier it is to do so when you have a stable kite. Sure the BRM when trimmed correctly will go upwind well but it requires a lot more skill from the rider than the Flow and that is very easy to spot once you test them back to back. An easier ride allows you to push your angles more aggressively not to mention you get less fatigued when riding.
Nice video mate! Just wondering two things:
1. Do you think the flow material is as hydrophobic as the the brm?
2. Do you think the flow will stow away in the belt as well as the brm?
This gets into the technicalities that most people don’t care but I quite enjoy.
1. Yes 100% hydrophobic and double coated
2. It takes a bit more time to stow (remove air from the folded canopy) but you get used to it
Now for the nerdy bit. Flow’s advantage is that they have access to a fabric used in their paragliders that is the Ferrari of fabrics used in the paragliding world. BRM used a fabric called MJ that is good but not as top shelf. There will be some interesting innovations to come in this development race!
@foilratvids love the nerdy bit lol.
Cheers for the detailed info mate. Legend
Thanks for making the decision so clear!
How do they compare in light winds? I ordered a flow, so I guess I'll know soon. But would love to get your comments on the light wind differences. Thanks as always for your videos!
I guess the example in this video is a light wind test. Anything under 15kts is quite light for a 4m Parawing. Under 15kts you would be better off on a 5.5m. In light wind the parawings struggle to fly well. Light and gusty is the worst. They will keep falling from the sky unless you are on one of the larger sizes. Anything over 15kts is manageable
When there's so little wind that the 5.5m would be the only solution, doesn't that go along with that there isn't a lot of downwindswell, hence missing the whole primary/inicial purpose of the parawing? Or is it actual fun to cruise around with a parawing WITHOUT planing on stowing it away for some "handsfree" downwinding?
Good question. I'm curious if it's fun to just ride the wing without swells as well. I live in San Diego where our really good wind days are max 15kts and normal days are 11kts of super smooth ocean breeze. Yes, the downwind bumps aren't there but we get fast ground swells to ride. with a wing I over run the wing and backwind it when riding ground swells. so a parawing would get me in, then I can stow it. Then it doesn't backwind when I drop in for the run. At least that's the idea. Oh and I can stow a parawing and paddle out through the surf. Wings make it very difficult to get out through surf bigger than 2ft. So the para wing should help solve the issue of getting off the beach .
@@michaelkihn8311 interesting question and in short… I don’t know. I just got the Flow 5.5m D-wing so I’ll find out. I’m sure you could have fun in waves and light wind but in the flats will be interesting to see if we can do tacks, kiteloops, jumps, handle-passes… who knows?! I’ll keep trying new things and I’ll film my first session on the 5’5m to share my impressions.
@@Twizz1979 the parawing would be exponentially better for that. Chasing big bumps out in the ocean would be sick. You can session a bomby out there for days by yourself
Do you think the 4M has enough power to work with a traditional wing board?
I’ve got a 100L board that I’ve been using with 10knots on a 5.3M. 4.5 usually needs more power.
Just figured a DW board might be ideal for a smaller wing.
I use the 4.2m D-wing most days whenever it’s over 18kts. Under that I’m still on the DWer board. If you have mostly 15kts and under definitely get the 5.5m D-wing. I just got the 3m and 5.5m so will cover them soon 🤙
Yeh you keep showing videos of flying these wings only on the front line (which the Maliko was never designed to do) and keep promising to show a video of packing down the Flow D-Wing but still haven’t seen it. Would appreciate one of those please as I’m skeptical with all the extra and heavier material that the Flow may be not as good as the Maliko packing down and also light wind jibes. The lightness of the Maliko sure has some advantages, no?
@@michaelshepherd9780 lightness is a key component for parawings. The production model of the Flows will be the same lightness of the Malikos so that’s a moot point for now as they will change in less than 10 days. I am riding a prototype (pre-production model).
I’m planning on doing a stowing video but I have to wait for some free time to align with good conditions. I wish this was my full time job but it’s not 😅
Not sure I agree with your test. Firstly doing it on land is a waste of time. You are missing momentum which is what a ram air kite needs to fully function at its best. I do see the difference but again don’t think this would be an issue on the water. The fact that it falls forward and collapses just shows that it needs to be moving to counter act.
Negative. It behaves the same in the water and more air going through only amplifies the effect, and doesn’t get rid of it. All this means is that they have different flying characteristics. The Flow you can depower on the bar and the BRM has limited bar depower and you have to sink a rail and hold it fully powered to reduce power or just glide downwind to loose tension on the lines requiring more technique from the rider.
thanks for this !
The Flow Bar looks heavy and very unclean to me.. obviously the Flow also has more Bridles/Lines so should pack bigger and should be harder to store and untangle... could you please review these points as well ?
@pw7582 great point! I'm probably going for a flow but I am also concerned about the stow process and redeploying after a fall
Can do. I’ll make a comparison between the two and a stowing video as many people have been asking me about it.