Thanks for watching! Comment down future video ideas that you want to see me cover!! :3 EDIT: IMPORTANT NEWS HAVE COME TO MY ATTENTION THAT I ACCIDENTALLY MIS-CREDITED THE FIRST FANART PIECE, THE OG ARTIST IS: foxel_in_a_boxel
@@Sallyshome-et1nkI kinda already covered that in my fixing art video as the same things apply, if consented it’s fine to make those videos, since it’s usually in harmless fun as a joke for both sides :) as long as the viewer knows what they’re getting into and are consenting, I see no problem in harmless joking
Rather than being a coping mechanism I think its more of a coping mechanism mixed with a trauma responce kinda how SA victims will sexualize themselves or become hypersexual.
I was think that, it's coping with the combination of SH. It's the main reason I never liked the argument that it's purely a positive coping mechanism because it's not. Becoming numb to something like SA/CSA doesn't mean you're recovering from that trauma. Posting it publicly in a uncontrolled setting can makes trauma worse. Which is why the confronting your trauma is usually done in private in a controlled environment.
Like the other person said, it is self harm. But unlike the other person, I will go more into depth as a person with hypersexuality. It is a coping mechanism, although maladaptive. You experience sexual intrusive thoughts and intrusive fantasies and experience compulsions in relation to that. Like you may feel the constant need to masturbate or to have sex. It's basically OCD but only about sex. And not everyone with sexual abuse trauma has it, people with dissociative disorders or other childhood trauma disorders also have it. It can be caused by other things. Say that your abuser had a power dynamic with you, similar to sexual abuse, although they never groomed you, that can still cause hypersexuality. It's one of many maladaptive coping mechanisms out there. So yeah. The solution is to have therapy and to develop a healthy relationship with your body. Like working on your inner child wounds and working on your self esteem. It's not gross or disgusting to be hypersexual. It's just a part of dealing with something that you didn't ask for. It's intrusive. So I do not blame anyone coping the way they do, and I don't judge them. I judge the people who judge them.
@@yukiandkanamekuran I disagree. Interacting with proship fanfics isn't a way of self harm, not to me at least. If the stuff I see depicted gets too much/ too real for me, like realistic and intense depictions of abuse, I leave it. And so do most of my proshipper friends. Fictional media is not supposed to be a reflection of reality nor is it a bible that all people should follow. I am fully aware how fucking awful pedophilia and sexual abuse is from personal experience. SA victims often develop fetishes for their trauma which is a natural way of how the brain tries to cope with the suffering. Turning this trauma & part of me into fictional stories that I can use to empower myself and take apart my experiences has helped me a lot to actually deal with my trauma and not be a dysfunctional wreck in my everday life. Yes, problematic media isn't for everyone, and I'm fully aware of it, but it's just a fantasy and that's it. Victims of abuse all cope in their individual ways, there is no wrong way to cope. Calling a certain way of coping as "self harm" and something "wrong/ disgusting" and something that needs to be "fixed" is just cruel.
@@Austin-LA Exactly. I've found myself leaning towards depictions of abusive relationships after escaping one and I wouldn't exactly say it's healthy. Far from it, really.
@@yukiandkanamekuran i do agree, I just didn't go to in depth because I didn't want to start a debate of what's considered a positive or negative coping mechanism because that's subjective to person to person. Explain with the depiction of SA/CSA in a in a victims writing/artwork at what point is it a method of coping or SH for the person. That's where these agreements start about glorification and roromanticisation.
personally I "like" problematic relationships when portrayed as bad and unhealthy because I find it fassinating to see what those characters go threw and their mindset (kinda like when you watch horror and you feel scared) tho as I said, it's only when they do portray them as bad
I agree! Personally, for me it's just that I think it's interesting to portray toxic relationships and the mentalities of the people in them. Not everything is in black and white, same goes for toxic relationships. Humans are complex. As a person who has been in some notable toxic relationships, I also find it cathartic to see that I'm not the only one who has experienced those emotions. Another reason is that portraying these relationships as bad brings awareness to these issues, in order to help others who are in the same situation or those who might ever encounter a toxic person/relationship.
I especially like when a character isn't a perfect victim, because it makes me think about relationships in real life and the fact that there are people in reality...like that. But like you said, ONLY when it's shown as bad. For the most part I'm good at detecting what's meant to be a negative relationship in a show, but sometimes a creator makes a pairing so vague that I have no idea if it's a healthy relationship or not, and that can really warp my perception of things. To clarify I'm ace and autistic-btw not saying autistic people are gullible or anything that's stupid, just some background information before anyone says the basic defense of art isn't real. Of course it isn't, but have you ever had a dream that didn't leave you feeling some way? A daydream perhaps? Just because it isn't real doesn't mean it can't affect us.
@Vesperad0 That's why warnings are important, eventho I love this kind of media and can understand that it's bad things and that those are fake scenarios, some people can't, so creators should always put TW (which I admit I only realized this thanks to this video) Thanks for sharing your pov btw, I find it really interesting!
THAT'S when it's okay, i'd say, stories about real abuse should be explored (in a proper and respectful way, ofc). but it's not really "shipping" then, because it tells a completely different story than what shipping is supposed to mean
omll the comment "proshipper artstyle" baffles my brains fr. how tf does an artstyle classify your beliefs? wtf is this tomfoolery? its just bs to me. anyways, congrats on 20k!
Its probably referring to more anime styles (commonly, some people get their artstyle called that for no reason) because a lot of Japanese artists get exposed for p*edophIlia because l*licon and underage stuff is more normalized there. But yeah, its pure tomfoolery that makes me laugh at their stupidity lmfao
the reason for this makes more sense for those who come across it and the idea of this "proshipper artstyle" clicks. Essentially it's just the unfortunate occurrence of finding an artist with a nice artstyle, looking at their art, realising they are actively shipping (e.g) incest with sometimes little commentary as if it's normal or understandable, obv you avoid the art cause wtf but eventually you come across the same situation, cool art, ah shit itsa proshipper The consistent "artstyle" between proshippers is mostly perceived through anyone who's come across it, there's no actual artstyle OBVIOUSLY, but I can say I've noticed it myself It's also less of a concept than a meme I'd argue, no idea what tiktok says, dc, but I always heard of it as a joke to cope with seeing this occurrence
@@Batbitesthesecond hands are really difficult for a lot of artists to draw, so it’s impressive that she drew it so quickly and easily while still making it look good :]
@@burntalphabetsoup6772 im an artist too its just the hands aren't anything out of the ordinary like don't get me wrong they're good hands but it's not crazy or anything
Im very sorry, i also do vent art but i never show it to anyone because using art as a therapy just seems more of like a private thing to me i also keep it private because people are assholes and creeps
There is a huge difference between vent art and proshipping art. Proshipping art usually puts those traumatizing experiences on a positive light while vent art doesn't. People need to think about that more
@@Janiya_H531 yea, but what scares me is pedos trying to get commissions from me the most. two have already done so and I got scared so I did that art for them...
This video was so true I’m not a pro shipper but have a very Chibi, anime-like style and seeing “pro shipper” on artists who have a similar art style makes me wanna delete social media forever.
@@PAWDUST__ As long as the people kissing are not an adult and a minor with an illegal age gap, you're in the clear. Someone's who's not in the clear for instance, is the writer of a very common comic called Springtrap and Deliah which feature's pedophilic undertones, (For context Deliah is Fourteen and Springtrap is in his late forties/early fifties) This is wrong because its pedophilia. With a chibi art style sometimes it can look like the character's your drawing are younger but as long as you know, and people viewing you art know that the characters are BOTH consenting adults then it's perfectly fine. Hope this helped!!! >:)
I think the reason why people automatically associate anime-like styles with proshipping is because it's usually Japanese artists that get caught out for being comshippers, since gross stuff like sh*tacon and l*licon is so normalized/popular in Japan
@@siomeiyin yeah, and even then most lolisho and other taboo fetish media gets relegated to the back end of any otaku store that stocks them anyways. I'd also add Japan notoriously has a problem with SA and sexual misconduct going underreported, though I believe this issue is more tied to deeply-rooted systemic issues.
as a disclaimer for this comment, i'm an adult who has a degree in literary studies (general literature), and is a trauma survivor. for me personally, ships have more been about the character dynamics and the story they're sent in. when i was an active member of multiple fandoms, the most important thing to me in ships was what kind of dynamic the characters have with one another, not any kind of "gratification". i enjoyed these dynamics for what they brought to the story, and that also includes problematic thematics. the existence of problematic dynamics in media is not inherently an issue or a reflection of the creator’s nor the consumer’s moral values. we have to be able to dissect different forms of trauma in media, because it needs to be represented. in short, liking a com-ship is not always about some personal gratification. sometimes it’s about storytelling and the way art is able to portray these extremely problematic dynamics, because only art is able to do what art does.
that wouldn't be considered shipping then?? having bad things or a relationship in your story doesn't mean that you ship it. shipping usually describes romantising the relationship between two characters. which isn't inherently bad but it is when people do so to portray grooming and p3dophilia as cute and normal, instead of the horrors it actually is. which unfortunately is what a lot of people do, and that's especially dangerous since most fandom spaces largely consist of kids. and the last thing children need to be told is that "the relationship between a child and adult can be cute and healthy in theory."
i dont have a problem with problematic ships just as long as they're portrayed as unhealthy but honestly its just so baffling that ppl compare gore art to incestuous or pedophilic art like yall be competing in the olympics with these mental gymnastics 💀
Finally someone said it... I'm fine with gore in cartoons or art, especially if it's not explicit, but fetishizing and romanticizing horrible things which you listed is a whole different thing from the cartoonish blood and violence. And it's ridiculous that people can compare it like it's the same. Mentally ill people indeed sometimes draw gore, but it's not half as bad as **cest or ****philic fetish and fetishes for other deviations...
Edit: Read ALL of my comments and stop picking and choosing what you want to read and don't want to read! Edit again:(@hotsauce9422) I'm "victimblaming" but yet you're weaponizing your own trauma to police how other victims cope with theirs... Unserious. Since when is "Blaming fiction takes the blame AWAY from predators and making excuses FOR them." is victimblaming???! If you are not a licensed professional, you should not be telling ppl how and how not to cope. The only "bad person" here is you and anyone else that tries to conflate fiction with real crimes! Y'all are APART of the problem for silencing victims and trying to make them out like they're just as dangerous as their abusers. P3do art and inc3st art isn't illegal for the same reasons gore art isn't illegal: No one is being endangered. What type of mental gymnastics are y'all on to think these 3 things are different???! Things can be fetishized and criticized simultaneously in fiction (Revolutionary Girl Utena is the biggest example.) L0lita depicted p3d0philia in a bad light (and Nabokov strongly disapproves of it) but it is still banned in certain places bcuz it's STILL depicting p3d0philia. If you're not a licensed professional, then you can't say what art is/isn't harmful and telling ppl how and how not to cope. Edit: And you should have enough sense to know what's dangerous and what's not no matter how it's portrayed in fiction. It's not the artist/writer's responsibility to teach you right from wrong. Also y'all must forget that there are a lot of ppl triggered by blood and gore. If not tagged properly or used unjustly, gore art can be JUST AS HARMFUL as inc3st and p3d0 art. Everyone has different triggers and everyone copes differently. And proship isn't even short for "problematic shipping." It's short for pro-artistic freedom. It means "Let ppl draw, write, and ship what they want and just learn how to block/mute." Not all proshippers are problematic shippers and "problematic" fiction is NOT MANDATORY TO READ! TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN TRIGGERS AND CURATE YOUR SPACE or GO INVEST IN A THERAPIST. It's not that proshippers don't have squicks, we just know how to HANDLE our squicks without making it anyone else's problem.
@@andreaben9978An artist trying to scare someone with horror art is not the same as an artist shoving their incest pedo rape art in the faces of literal children or survivors of those things. Why are you so upset people are upset and grossed out by topics such as incest or other forms of trauma? Some folks don't like seeing their trauma being drawn as "cutesy" because it's demeaning. Plus yes, it is damaging for someone to make trauma seem "cute" or "desirable" if they went through that because they're telling themselves it was okay.
I myself am an “anti” not someone who goes out of their way to harass pro/comshippers. BUT! I have experienced something that starts with a g and ends with m. If I EVER had my style called “pro shipper artstyle” I would flip, it’s understandable why artists are getting frustrated with people calling their art something so gross and obscene. I would quit art all together
@@mwlkyway2775 It seems more like a refusal to draw a line, something that is done to stop people from getting their feelings hurt. But the people it seeks to not hurt, are the kind that seek to hurt vulnerable people. Be it directly or indirectly.
@@mwlkyway2775 in my experience it isnt that lol. proship people tend to belittle my mental disorders to say “oh you really want to be like us and consume this content huh??? you wanna watch (bad thing) you puriteen” and they tend to not really care if that freaks me out a lot. Granted i block most of them so. they could’ve changed or matured
what you acting like rn: omg proshippers are toxic and evil people and also dont want to get called an abuser or pedo what snowflacks tehy should know there teh hurassers beacasue they dont want to get hurased @@TeapotsAreGreatHats
The main reason I dislike anti-shippers is because they say they're protecting kids, while also harassing kids for deafening as a pro-shipper. While pro-shippers also have issues, some anti-shippers come off as hypocritical.
The main reason I dislike proshippers (im not an anti) is cause alot of them are hypocritical. I’m a 14yr IRL condoner dating a ped0 and proshippers harass me for it as if they dont fet!shize it through fiction.
Fixing actual comshipper art is also an issue. It's pretty much promoting the art and showing it to minors. I've seen some that mention the original artist and a lot of them actively seek it out to post them fixing it.
YES!!! Thank you! This is something I see all the time. And if the actual art isn’t mentioned, kids go out of their way to find other pieces to make their own versions. Fixing/editing the art does literally nothing but promote the artist, since the original piece hasn’t changed, only the ones on the fixer/editors canvas.
@@BreDrawz Glad you agree. It's a real issue as kids see it. Sometimes it's even uploaded again by kids that fix it. Unfortunately the videos keep popping up in my reccomended
@ReigenPrim Yeah thete are so many and the people just thank the channel owner for fixing it. I have commented on a few but now it just keeps showing up on my page as well. People just don't understand why promoting content like that is not ok
It's nice to see a video with a more nuanced perspective on this topic, almost all of them are extreme pro or extreme anti. Personally I'm just anti-artistic censorship since I've seen firsthand the damage it can do to the art community, and mental health. Also historically, censoring art is kinda bad, even the stuff that is socially unacceptable. The only disagreement I have is when you said it wasn't a good way to cope. There are psychology books and therapists who back using art to cope with trauma, including more risque art, art and writing therapy is a thing. The only thing is it can be therapeutic depending on how you handle it mentally, which it would be advised have a therapist help you out, or you yourself be knowledgeable about the topic and understand how best to go about it yourself. I've met a lot of adult artists who use problematic art to deal with CSA, SA, abuse, etc., and it works for them, they function better venting all that trauma out on "paper". (Even the romanticized stuff has helped people because it's a return of control to the victim.) Admittedly not a big fan of people who say you should/shouldn't cope a certain way, this should be designated to psychologists, specifically those who've worked directly with the person since everyone copes differently. Totally pro-blocking and filtering your online experience if you can, the tools are usually there, and it's more productive for you, your health and the other parties to just get them off your feed rather than harass and dog-pile. Now when you get children doing it, and getting involved is definitely a big 'NO'. Even if you get that 1% who understand what it's for, and also uses it to cope, they still should wait till adulthood to engage in adult content. Since it's literally illegal, and as you said, there can be predators. Though you can argue preds are everywhere, and many have used innocent kid friendly material to attract children before. I must be on the unicorn side of this community because every pro/comshipper I follow hates kids, saturates their stuff in warnings and some even go as far as to block anyone who doesn't publicize their age on social media.
I didn’t mean to say the coping part as fact, or even a completely solid opinion, hence why I clarified that in the video that it should not be taken as fact since it isn’t. That statement mostly rose from speculation and curiosity, which is why I asked for those that are more knowledgeable about the topic to inform me in the comments. I didn’t intend for it come come off as “that’s a bad coping mechanism” it was more of “I’m not sure if it is, so inform me if I’m wrong” Most the pro/comshippers I see usually don’t take time to make sure kids are seeing their content or add warnings, though i think it really depends on the side of the algorithm you’re on with the subject, as with most things since the sides can usually be complete opposites. But I do know there are many online pro/comshippers that censor their work, that segment was more so targeted towards those that don’t, which is why I showed examples of pro/comshippers that do, to give them some ideas on what the warnings could look like. Thank you so much for giving your side and knowledge, especially on the coping part since that really was something that I was genuinely interested in learning more on. /gen /nm
100% agree. it's really harmful to the art community, the way artists have to restrict themselves from certain artistic expressions in fear of being misinterpreted. i'll also allow myself to add as to how taboo ship dynamics and art may interest anyone outside of having to cope with trauma; some people simply find taboo fantasies to be exciting, but still not something they'd want to actually act out irl. some claim this type of fiction is just entertaining to them, but i believe they could also be using it as to deal with daily-life struggles, not necessarily some deep-rooted trauma. same way violent video games may be fun as a "hobby" but also help you vent out pent up frustrations. believing that you're only allowed to use taboo content to cope with trauma, and implying anyone else is a creep; a lot of us would have to expose ourselves as survivors (where we otherwise wouldn't) just to validate ourselves. then such intimate information could be potentially exploited by some bad-faith actors, whether it's antis or trolls. that's why many pro/comshippers are in favor of idea that anyone can enjoy fiction however they please, as long as they're mindful of their own limits.
TBH I think the lion’s share of the blame can be placed on social media itself. You can block and filter all you like, but the fact is that Twitter (or X or whatever) is a website that has *always* allowed kids as young as 13 on its platform while also allowing people to post pornography, IRL gore, political propaganda and other content that is inappropriate for minors. And TBH the blocking features are piss poor, you can easily circumvent them just by making a new account. Algorithmic social media will also go out of its way to show you more of anything you like or comment on as well, so even if someone makes one negative comment on a piece of art they don’t like the website will shove similar stuff into their face by no fault of the artist. I think the internet was much healthier about this stuff when social media wasn’t as ubiquitous and things like forums and smaller communities were more of the norm. People could post all the weirdo outsider art they wanted to their heart’s content in their own contained spaces and it wouldn’t be exposed to audiences who didn’t explicitly want to see it.
as an adult artist who takes commissions, I need to be holding a certain amount of scrutiny when a client gives me their prompt. If it's not in your comfort zone, content or context, just say no. You do not have to take every job offered to you, and it's a very good idea to made a list of things you don't do on you commission info card or sheet. you don't have to make content you don't agree with, and you don't have to be associated with those topics because you don't interact with those topics in your work. As for gore, I enjoyed working with the subject when i was a lot younger (15-21) as a way to cope from child abuse and SA. It felt like I was able to control that narrative and that was gratifying. I could put my hurt on paper as subjects that were not me to process the feelings.
i was a little skeptical abt this video at first due to the amount of misinfo that is spread about the term proship but it made me really happy that you had an open-minded approach to this issue and your stance/opinion completely valid and agreeable especially regarding the “proshipper art style” which is absolutely a ridiculous thing in the first place and is just another excuse to harass ppl💀 I personally am strongly anti harassment, profiction and just stay in my own bubble really. I also think that people who enjoy taboo content dosent necessarily reflect on their real life morals and as long as they are keeping it in strictly private/adult spaces and using the correct tags,warnings etc... In all honestly the whole pro/anti ship discourse is so toxic and terminally online. people should really just learn to block, move on and curate their space.. As always your videos bring me so much joy, I’ll always support u bre❤️
The fact that "proshipper artsyle" is actually really cute and I feel so bad for people who get called proshippers because they have that artstyle. On the other hand when I see a proshipper with a cool artstyle I feel so betrayed because WHY CANT I ENJOY THINGS
ive said this once and i will say it again. being proship isnt inherently bad by definition. antis are the ones that twisted that definition beyond recognition being proship just means you wont harass people who like different things in fiction. it means being FOR shipping, whether you necessarily like it or not
Same minus the calling myself a proshipper thing 😭😭 For some reason, the "pro" in "proshipper" made me think it meant the same thing as "multishipper". Seeing how much proshipping was frowned upon made me think that multishipping was also a bad thing 🤦♀️
i remember like just yesterday i very politely asked someone who shipped incest to delete my art off their blog (this was on tumblr) and they got weirdly mad at me. i had my boundaries up and obvious and literally just said "hey im not comfortable with [incest ship] could you delete your reblog thanks". and all of them in my experience have acted like this despite me (usually) being civil about it and only establishing my own boundaries (something they often try to preach about with "dont like dont read"). theyre wild.
thats so awful omg!! i one day hope for my art to gain more traction and my ocs to have a small fnabase but if it ever gets to the point where blogs like that are reblogging them i think id loose all hope
@@lightlysalted2564 heyyyy sorry for inserting myself here. I hate self promos in RUclips comment sections but since you said you love finding new artists I’m going to become the one thing I hate 😭 but I’m going to post a (possibly short form) video soon that shows ALL the art for sale on my Etsy account. I got some pretty cool stuff, like a Micheal Jackson album cover painted on a record. I might also make a long form video where I talk about some of the pieces. But I just posted about a Kenny Scharf inspired piece in a short form video if you wanna check it out :)
You’re probably one of the most respected commentators in my opinion, you’re actually having good opinions and calling out some weird behavior, and I am very much respect for that
Hi! As someone who is a psychology student (not college, just my own studies pre-college) and someone who would consider themself profic/proship, I'd like to make a few points. First of all, this video was amazingly made; you brought up good points and stated your opinion and made sure that the audience understood it was just your opinion and not you pushing it as a fact. Second, I'd like to explain a bit about why comshippers and darkshippers may be interested in this type of content and whether it's good or not. First of all, yes, seeing this content can desensitize you and make you believe it is ok irl. This is why comshippers/darkshippers must keep any NSFW art away from minors, and make sure to properly tag their work. There may also be mentally vulnerable people (such as sexual violence victims or those with psychosis) who can and will be more disturbed by this sort of dark content. Any type of content can be triggering, ranging from something completely wholesome, to gore, to a taboo or even illegal-if-real relationship. Some people may be interested in this content, however, BECAUSE it's taboo. The human brain is naturally wired to be interested in this sort of stuff. Humans watch true crime because they think "if this happened to me, what would I do?" Dark content can help people learn ways to survive a situation without being in that situation, so if something bad DID happen to them, they could see a reference in fiction how the situation may or may not play out and what they can do. The human brain also likes dark topics because of the adrenaline rush. Adrenaline is one of the only true addictions humans are born with. Traumatized individuals may use taboo ships to cope for the purpose of being in control. They can decide when it stops and process their emotions of what happened to them. For children that are comshippers, I don't really know what naturally draws children into this sort of thing besides the reasons I've mentioned before. I would recommend all minors who do comship/darkship to keep it private and stay away from these spaces as many people who make 18+ content are in fact 18+. You also brought up in the video the "this content makes people less willing to act on harmful urges" thing. This statement entirely depends on who it is. For those with paraphilias, I would recommend they see if they can get therapy and/or medication to hopefully ease these intrusive thoughts and nightmares and find better ways to cope with their usually-chronic condition. If dark fiction is the best for them, I'd say go for it, but if it's not, maybe try medication and meditation. For those with self-destructive paraphilias, like masochism, I WOULD recommend fiction. If they have a partner, they could roleplay with them rather than hurting themself. Of course, I would recommend that those with paraphilias would ask a therapist or psychologist for advice before they look for coping mechanisms on their own like that. If they don't have a mental health expert in their area, then I'd recommend breathing exercises and healthier adrenaline-releases such as exercise if they get urges a lot. I may have forgot to say some things, but I hope what I did put hopefully could help someone understand these points from a profic perspective as well as something more psychology-explained rather than just "fiction doesn't affect reality!!!" (It can and always will, by the way...) And I'd also like to stress that even if someone disagrees with you, you are still required to be respectful. Telling others to "kts" IS illegal. There is no such thing as a wrong opinion, as opinions cannot be proven wrong; that's what makes them an opinion. But just because you disagree doesn't mean you need to pressure a child into offing themself. Text may just be pixels on screen, but it still hurts. For whoever's reading this, I hope you have a lovely day.
I'm not a proshipper and I honestly find it kind of gross so I appreciate your comment a lot because I'm interested on *why* people do it, but every time I read an argument about it they get so defensive and say things like "it's just pixels on screen!!" or "you antis are too vanilla!!". So reading your comment makes me understand them more :D
@@naturelight7517 As someone who's been in the community for a while now, I can tell you why they say that in arguments. It's actually pretty simple, it's a defense mechanism. They have to do it so many times that some just get really tired of trying to explain it since so many people just jump to conclusions without hearing us out, and then we have to fear the mass harrassment and even the potential doxxing. I think the whole argument can be boiled down to how all of us thinks of fiction differently, maybe you look at fictional characters and think of real people, but when I look at fictional characters I see them as objects (kinda like a dollhouse, I know that if I take off the doll's head it won't feel it). SN: It's completely fine to think it's gross, everyone has their own preferences. We only ask others that if they don't like it, just block us. We don't want to argue, we just want to create art. It's just not fun to create if you always have to fear that people may harrass you for it.
When i was a child i was kind of a comshipper, it was because i was in the undertale au fandom and i think that is self explanatinetory, you know pj's daycare, that was some traumatic shit. I realized it was bad in about 5th or 6th grade and ever since i have bettered myself, and always tell kids in a calm manner taht thats bad and you shouldnt do that. I still cant write good tho sorry for my poor grammer
Ohhh god, yeah, PJ’s daycare and all of BlogTheGreatRouge’s stuff has left a permanent stain of this fandom. The way her art has affected an entire generation of UTMV fans is a prime example of why comship content is actively dangerous.
bro.. dreammare🤢 (it's literally a combination of both. Jack of all trades, half the time involving p3do ships, sh0tac0n and 99% 1ncst) they treated that shit like it was normal and even glorifying/fetjshizing it sometimes I literally left the fandom over it lmao
@@howtodrinkwaterin5simplesteps Hhhh yeah I’m very active on utmv tumblr and Dreammare feels like the new Paperfresh, it is everywhere and you have to double, triple check that people are chill before feeling safe. It’s everywhere. Some of the most well-known and talented creators are down with it and that sucks, and it’s sickening to see people rally behind them and act like it’s no big deal (dreemurr-skelememer, skumhuu, and syxadel have way too many supporters like it’s insane-) and it is. So frustrating. Don’t get me started on the mental gymnastics they use to try and defend it. BESTIE, IDC IF CORRUPTED AND PASSIVE NIGHTMARE AREN’T THE SAME PERSON, HE’S STILL DREAM’S BROTHER, ISTG-
YEAAA i was in bad fandom spaces as a kid and therefore became a "comshipper" (that wasn't a word back then, but whatever) because LITERALLY. every single person said it was okay. remember "i don't care, i ship it"? that song in itself is proship 💀practically peer groomed into that shii. glad i stepped away from it and learned how wrong it is
@@InkSans_FandomSoda OMFGGG I KNOW RIGHT??? DREAMMARE IS EVERYWHERE NOW I CANT EVEN AVOID IT. IT HAS PLAGUED ME FOR TWO YEARS STRAIGHT - ON RUclips, ON TWITTER, ON TUMBLR AND EVEN ON PINTEREST 😭 I CANT EVEN LOOK AT SIBLING CHARACTERS THE SAME ANYMORE OR EVEN VIEW FANART OF DREAM AND NM WITHOUT FEELING ICKY AND WONDERING ABOUT THE ARTIST'S BACKGROUND BEFORE I LIKE THE ART💀💀 It literally SUCKS that the proshippers are getting the most popular. and OMG DREEMURR SKELEMEMER I KNEW IT. THEY SEEMED SUS BUT I HADNT CHECKED THEIR ACCOUNT YET (and skumhuu too??!). It literally does seem like that theyre everywhere and simultaneously trying to defend that shit and normalize it bruh. Do you know quincey/quinne or whatever their name is? they support the hell out of that ship and have encouraged *many* more people to ship it and they DID. Like damn, all these proshippers really attracting eachother like magnets😭 I'll also add shipping Passive and Corrupted 💀 anytime i see them together i immediately start looking into the artist's pfp. Like why do people even ship Passive with anyone? He's like 6. it's pretty much.. you know what😬 sorry for the rant💀had to get that out of my system
i do love problematic content. i do! i love saying, “this is wrong. let’s take a closer look to find out why.” i don’t write much dark content bc im not the best at it, but i very much like using fiction as a way to safely explore these topics. it’s a lot easier to use fiction because you can leave at any time.
this is mostly in regards to violent content in general, but i struggle with intrusive thoughts sometimes, and my mental health is generally all over the place. i check out dead dove content from time to time, and i sometimes write and draw some mild stuff (mainly gore/horror/whump/black comedy) just to get the impulse out. something about works that make me feel uneasy or squeamish and disgusted is cathartic to me in a way that i can't really put to words. it's interesting from a purely psychological perspective. it's shocking, it's moving, i can't stop thinking about it. in a similar way, i can't really explain why "calm" and "cozy" media often fails to appeal to me and keep my attention. still, i don't feel comfortable in most online circles because i belive that there's a certain level of standard and care when it comes to sharing dead dove adjecent content publicly that most fail to meet. thorough tagging and not depicting real people, for one. even live action characters feel incredibly icky to me. furthermore, i rarely share any of my touchier art and writing (unless i know and trust someone) because i don't want it to be misunderstood as me enjoying or condoning depicted subjects. it's simply an exploration, a way to shut up your brain when it won't stop asking you "wouldn't this be fucked up" and "what would happen if-" i get that this kind of thing is not everyone's cup of tea and i respect it, but it kind of sucks that people are so used to bad faith depictions that they lump everyone under the same umbrella
2 months late to this but i suffer from ocd. I've had obsessions and intrusive thoughts regarding incest, p*dophilia, SA, gore etc anything really. consuming content portraying it whether romanticizing it or not has always made me feel better. it felt like my thoughts got out of my head for a moment and just stayed elsewhere
Im an adult and I’m personally under the belief that people as humans have the right to create whatever content they’d like without censorship. That does include really disgusting stuff that would offend our usual sensibilities. It’s part of the human experience. Is it probably bad and or potentially unhealthy? Yeah, maybe. But so is the human condition at times. I feel as if people have the right to explore and depict whatever they’d like in their art. HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER… It is our responsibility as individuals to not expose others to such graphic content whenever possible, and if we HAVE to (which lets be honest, nobody has to post their art online…) it should only be shared to other consenting adults who would wish to see that art, in a closed space. Key word… ADULTS. And it should be people within your same age range anyway, because a 20 y/o is gonna handle some topics much differently than, say… a 40 y/o, or 50 y/o… But that’s just my two cents. I think the Internet is too unsafe for people who are younger, especially minors, when it comes to media literacy and having to digest that sort of stuff. But I’ve heard people say that people shouldn’t even be making such art and… I don’t know. I just think that life is too short to dictate what people do with THEIR art, to a degree.
god, i stan you so hard, i agree with your opinion, 10/10, i think literally the same thing comship content is for adults by adults in a closed space. period.
Just saying but back when anti l*li shit was at its peak, a bunch of people into it collected scientific literature on it. Most of it & most of the psychologists who had done the peer reviewed studies called the fantasies with clearly fictionally depicted characters normal, healthy, and not a sign of p*dophiliac behavior. I was in a server out of curiosity to the debate, and there was a 5 page document listing sources supporting that but sadly discord banned it cuz clearly l*li = real kids meanwhile other servers with actual CSEM are still up and running If I find it I'll try mention some of the studies done here. But really all the activism against it is dumb, even the FBI itself has told people to stop reporting fictional NSFW art depicting minors cause it's clogging up their channels for no good reason.
Hi so I'm a "proshipper" idk I don't rlly like calling myself that cus of the negativity that comes with it but I guess I fall under that label. Whoever reading this pls just hear me out and read to understand . I'm one of the people who uses problematic ships art to cope with trauma, it's not an excuse and I guarantee most people who consume that sorta art use it to cope. Making that sorta art really helps me personally as it makes me feel more in control . It's my vent art. I never post any, I keep it to myself. I do not endorse or ever endorse problematic stuff. Just because you don't use it to cope doesn't mean others don't, not everyone is the same and it's okay. People are very quick to judge, I rlly wish people wouldn't be so black and white thinking. Thank you for reading and have nice day , also good video bre!
Honestly I wish the same, as people simplify this topic WAY too much, and it’s a lot more complicated than it’s made out to be. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
I fall under the same label too (as BreDraws says a pro shipper is also someone who supports all ships) I do not support incest or illegal ships however, but any other ship I’m fine with (for example, my friend /who I will keep their name private for safety/ ships Michael x Ennard, and I support her because I don’t want them to get mad at me and because they said their Ennard AU is different than the cannon Ennard /who is Elizabeth, AND Clara/) people would say I fall under the category because after I say another illegal or incest ship is disgusting I say “no offence or hate to anyone who ship them” (please keep in mind personally I do NOT ship any illegal or incest ships so please do not harass anybody who says “no offence or hate” after saying an illegal ship is disgusting, and please, when I grow on RUclips some day do not make an exposed video because I don’t ship Bluey x Bingo or Two x Four and say “no offence” after saying Four hates Two and Two hates Four or Bluey and Bingo are sisters.)
hey coming from someone who's been in that same place before please please please be careful that your vents are not for pleasure its very dangerous to cope with it that way if you associate those ships with any sort of positive gratification it will develop into something out of your control I barely escaped that so please be careful
@@thembofriendsimp I promise I'm ok, I've been coping with certain vent art for quite awhile now and it's done wonders on my well being. Not going spefcifcally into my trauma, but drawing it in a positive way helps with alot of stuff. With saying that, I am intelligent and self aware AND DO NOT support those certain actions, it absolutely disgusts me. My morals will not change, and cannot be easily warped. I understand that's not the case for everyone, but for myself I am OK and it helps me (sorry if I'm not good at explaining) I appreciate your concern though and hope you have found great and safe coping mechanisms that work for you 💗
i left tiktok a while ago (and i was always on the brazilian/cool older artists/nerd side anyway instead of... this?) so everytime i see new drama pop up its like hearing my neighbouring country is involved in a horrible devastatig natural disaster while we were having carnaval.
I also don't consider myself a pro-shipper or an anti and instead just a person with an opinion. I agree with the sentiment that art shouldn't be forced to be wholesome and pure and that portraying something in fiction doesn't mean that you endorse it in real life (since by that logic, we should be sending gore, horror, or just anyone who writes something 'icky' artists to jail, and stories would be really borning. I also enjoy heavy gore art for no real deep 'reason' while being super squeamish irl so I'd be a massive hypocrite to say that fictional interests/portrayals = endorsement.) Art that glorifies things like p*do relationships does make me uncomfortable though. Yes, it's fictional and not an inherit sign that they support these things irl and some use it as a coping mechanism, but I personally, can't find the appeal. I will never go out of my way to harass those who do though and think that behavior is scummy as hell unless theres proof that they think these things are okay in the real world. Ignoring/blocking/scrolling to moderate your own space is always the best cause just as you said, trying to harass and argue does nothing. Just like with gore art though, there SHOULD be a warning that comes with the content so people know what it is. When it comes to the 'proshipper' art style thing it's so ridiculous that it's funny. How on earth do you associate an art style with a type of fictional content? TikTok art community running on a single brain cell at its finest (Sorry for the long comment, anyhow this is a really well-made video)
as a comshipper/dark shipper who is 14, you’re right about us mostly doing it to cope with trauma, and i think you make some really good points about how immature and unhelpful a lot of antis are and you seem really well educated on this topic so i appreciate that even if we have different opinions. i think the reason we enjoy it is because we can project our trauma and struggles onto characters we like, and when our comfort characters are going through the same pains we did it makes us feel less alone. so like, i’m a csa survivor as well as someone who’s been groomed multiple times, so if i make up scenarios of a character i am attached to getting groomed/saed it’s comforting. also, i’ve always had unrestricted internet access ever since i was like 4 years old, and being exposed to some violent and explicit content at that young an age made me end up having some weird fantasies. i think fiction is a healthy outlet for these thoughts, but i always add trigger warnings to my content and don’t condone any darkship dynamics irl at all :33
I can get that, but I’ll never be able to understand why some people post it. What makes someone want to post something like that? Because in the end, your just openly sharing that to more potential minors who might think it’s ok to do it.(not saying you post stuff like that)
@@F4bes for ur first point, i could only guess its a personal choice for other people who relate to what happened. and i'd say that if someone posts it, they can't really control the public's reaction. the target audience is for people who share the same pov and agree that everything is just pure fantasy and should be kept that way.
@@F4bes we post it publicly because we want to find other proshippers to cultivate a safe space of people that have the same trauma and coping mechanism. as long as a video is clearly labelled as proship content at the start i don’t see why antis can’t just simply block us and swipe past the content if they don’t wanna see it, instead of engaging with it and leaving hate. by interacting with the video even just to hate they’re gonna get recommended more stuff similar to it, and additionally a lot of antis seem to really like sending death threats so they could be telling a kid already struggling a lot to kill themselves which is only gonna make their mental state worse and won’t make them want to stop proshipping. so leaving hate is counterproductive to both sides and it’s best to just not interact with profiction content if you don’t like it.
I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree, but express appreciation that you used proship and comship vernacular correctly. The anti and anti-adjacent communities tend to misuse the words, such as using proship as a noun to refer to the ships, when comship is literally right there to be used as a noun for such purposes. I know that's probably a pretty terminally online pet peeve for me to have, but oh well. To elaborate more, many proshippers view even anti-adjacent types as antis due to being on the defensive against stochastic terrorism, which wikipedia defines as "publicly demonizing a person or group in such a way that it inspires supporters of the figures to commit a violent act against the target of the speech." Stochastic terrorism is frustrating because those doing it will often claim no culpability because "technically" they didn't do any incitement. For some reason, videos about proship/antiship discourse always claim that proshippers are actually equally guilty of as much harassment as antis are, usually without examples to demonstrate, let alone anything even remotely equivalent to what antis have said and done. These videos also always pull the "proshippers grooming a bunch of minors into thinking drawings don't have human rights, ooooh" card, and the thing is... I don't know how often that happens, or how many specifically use comships to groom others versus how many are just predators who are also proship or whatever. What I know is when proshippers discover harmful behaviors in their communities, the perpetrators get ousted. Those wishing to enact harmful behaviors such as "consanguinamory" or "MAP4AAM" relationships or whatever are warned about, and awareness is raised to protect others from such people. Why some things are enjoyable in fiction and not real life isn't something I fully understand either. I think, as a general rule, the proship belief is that thoughtcrime isn't real, but there are thoughts that aren't conducive to healthy and prosocial living. For example, having an interest in real children isn't illegal or immoral unless it turns into actions affecting real children, but that doesn't mean having that paraphilia is helpful or likely to lead to positive outcomes for anyone, and it is concerning and should be addressed.
Glad you said some of this. I had a friend (keyword had) who i think got bullied deeper into proshipping. Theyre actually something of a "lolcow" with threads documenting their own childhood grooming situation and their creepy asf art. They started out drawing their childhood trauma and would constantly acknowledged how harmful and wrong their art was but after being bullied, being denied their vent art, and having their trauma made fun of they surrounded themselves with actual offenders who were comforting and hyping them up and we havent talked since. Their art has also become waaaaay more harmful and theyve posted it places that they shouldnt without TWs. Basically because a victim got bullied online they got sucked up by a community that worshipped them for their problematic art and the whole internet has been laughing at the story of them and their groomer. Yikes
Yeah. Bullying never works, and this is a great anecdote to illustrate why it can and does actually make things a million times worse. If you leave someone alone, chances are their vent art will function as intended and they’ll move on eventually of their own accord. I’ve known plenty of people who were into some super freaky-deeky shit when they were younger and struggling with issues from their youth, but naturally calmed down as they got older. But if you harass someone, it’s only human nature to get defensive and seek things and people that will comfort instead of attack you-no matter how “morally correct” the attackers may be. In fact there’s no right answer to bullying, since even apologizing won’t stop it. Places like kiwifarms and callout accounts on twitter are a serious scourge…
Im glad someone is talking about this !! I believe people are allowed to draw dark topics as long as its not for romanticization, glamorization, or fetishy content. Most proship/comship art is explicitly one of those two and i dont like that at all. I draw g0re occasionally mainly to improve my anatomy and also to test myself, see how far i can go!! All I see is that most of them are minors and i hope they move out of it since ive heard from most ex-com/proshippers it was unhealthy for their mentality.
Yeah, im a person who loves subtle horror or showing things that have a very disturbing undertone, and to test my writing ability I've tried my hand at showing a creepy pedo "relationship". I like showing the dark side of reality, because sometimes something written or drawn can make people see things differently now that it's their favorite character or whatever, but when it's being glamorized?? No, it's not cute at all. I like evoking the feeling of discomfort intentionally, because even if the characters are smiling and the victim looks happy, I'm trying to show it's a bad thing for them. I think people just need to understand media better, like our media literacy is literally in the deepest pits of hell. But i also feel artists and writers and creators should be more responsible with their depictions of stuff-im not saying nobody can make gore or depict horrible incest, what i am saying is that both artists and nonartists should learn just how much of an effect art can have on reality. If art can inspire people to work towards their dreams and unite for some cause, or even some cliche Christmas miracle nonsense, then art can influence people into believing certain experiences are completely normal. And age is not a factor, anybody can be gullible at any age, children are just more likey to be so.
This!! I write content that could be considered "comships" (they're not really ships at all), but it's just to depict how traumatic those kinds of experiences are, and how rough healing can be. Several of my friends and loved ones have gone through that kind of trauma, and I could never glamorize or romanticize that stuff. At the same time, I do very much understand the other side. A lot of com/proshippers seem to be kids, and even I (as a minor, directed at parents) had thoughts like that sometimes, despite not having that kind of trauma. It's usually either a symptom of either a mental struggle, unhealthy attachment/relationship, or both, though, and I really don't think it's fair to harass these people immediately. A lot of them just need help.
as a person who consider themselves as dead-dove & darkshipper, i don't really like the "minor x adult" ship trope because it gives me the ick. i sometimes draw as a coping mechanism because of trauma, though :< anyways, i don't condone any behaviors that are morally wrong irl or anything. and yes, i was desensitized to explicit content since at a young age, which gives me intrusive thoughts :[ i may accept dark themes, as long as it's not fetishy :D and as for controversial themes, i'll be mature handling those :p
@@SandsUnderthetable I'm not gatekeeping a word, I'm a proshipper myself I just don't want our community using wrong terms that were stolen from other communities
Hello hi, I highly doubt you'll see my comment but I'll comment anyway. I'm a 20 year old psychology student and I really wanna comment on "I don't get why you'd like that type of stuff" at 10:20. Stuff that are forbidden are much more attractive than things that are normalised because liking it or doing forbidden thing goes against what's supposed to be expected, thus creating a feeling of rebelion. Think of it like a kid who sleeps much later than when they should or stealing the cookie jar. When it comes to "proshipper" content (in quotes because I hate the whole pro/anti ship argument), it's the same thing. If 80% of the internet tells you that it's bad to ship X character, then doing it makes you feel or seen as a rebel, someone who doesn't follow the trend. Some people just find genuine gradification in doing forbidden things, whatever people wants to hear it or not. They're not even bad people sometimes, as in they don't actually endorse or act on these preferences, but everyone has flaws and likes thing that are abnormal. I mean, there's a reason why f*tishes and k*nks are so varried, and it is BECAUSE they're abnormal that they are liked. It's absurde to tell people that they're not allowed to like something "problematic" just because you don't like it or get it. I do agree that liking or participating in problematic content like drawing ship art of a character and their child, but most people who do that ARE themselves victims of SA or CSA. It's true that they should not harass or dismiss all critisism, but people forget that we're on the internet. People can and most of them will hide that they went through CSA, not everyone is as open as some are, and to classify people as either "valid because they said they went through CSA or are kids" and "Invalid if otherwise" is not going to help anyone. We cannot make generalised arguments aroud that topic because we cannot assume why people like what they like that easily. I hate that pro and anti shipping argument so bad because people are wasting their time assuming who's valid and who is not, and only based on their content online (and that if we forget that a huge potion of people who engages in these arguments are teenagers on twitter or instagram which... not the type to have nuanced arguments). It really shows how people are much more preoccupied in looking good and "uncancellable" than to actually understand each other's arguments. (ps : I also find how we treat gore and violence in comparaison with nsfw hypocritical because people will be okay with drawings of childrens being hurt but not if there's sexual abuse. We can argue that there are more fictions that romantisize CSA but I think it's unfair to turn a blind eye if the violence is non sexual. Violence is violence, whatever if it's nsfw or not.)
I love this response! This actually explains alot to me about why I personally indulge with some problematic content I don't personally have trauma with! Thanks for sharing :0
@scenelvcifer Also I need to point out that enjoying some problematic stuff restrain you from experiencing it in real life. That's why many people like violent video games or comics, because it gives them a safe way to experience it. However, some people shouldn't be exposed to it : teenagers (less than 16) because they're way too impressionable and most of them cannot fully comprehend the consequences of violence, and a very few people with very specific mental illnesses. Banning all "problematic" content is not the solution, but warning them about the reality of those subjects and to never replicate them is one of them. We can't stop people from seeking those content but we can tell them why they should be cautious with interacting with them. (Tho i need to precise that it doesn't mean that every kind of violence is okay to show. Snuff movies and CP are not included because they either show real violence or a type of violence that only attract people suffering from p*dophilia.)
Thing with gore is that we are used to it because we are exposed to it more than we should. You can for example see gore in the news, with a search on social media or in a lot of games while SA isn’t really shown as much in media. One reason it doesn’t might be that the people are often children who doesn’t really have any sexual experience or doesn’t know about SA or maybe people have experienced violence and gore more which leads to it being presented more
@Loifey yeah and it still sucks that we're desensitised to gore, especially as kids. The big difference is that we all agree that killing someone is wrong because we often portray killing as wrong, while CSA and SA don't always show it in a proper way, to the point that some people online categorise ALL C/SA representation as bad, in fear of accidently supporting something bad. But that's a very flawed tactic, because we have to understand why some representation are bad (sometimes dangerous) and why some are good and accurate. If we don't see the bad stuff, how can we know why it's bad. Education comes with confrontation to things you don't like. Of course, it doesn't mean everyone should look at CP or very explicit depictions of abuse, but we at least have to explain why certain depictions are dangerous and how to correct them. Censorship will only lead to oblivious teenagers that will never understand why certains things are bad, and might lead them to participate in ACTUAL CSA or abuse. I really don't like that pro/anti stuff because, and I will repeat myself, it's way too manichaen to fully grasp the nuances behind problematic and disturbing fictions.
@@abberancestarI agree with the gore/violence thing, it’s definitely agreed upon. But another problem I see about C/SA is that people have really mixed opinions about it which you can especially see every time a RUclipsr get exposed and all the fans/nonfans discuss whether it was SA and/or pedophilia which is probably a reason C/SA is a hard topic to represent in media, it’s hard to please most of the crowd when there’s a lot of different opinions and then there’s also the factor you mentioned about being scared of misrepresentation. And I don’t either consider myself pro or anti since they just constantly harass each other plus the thing about nuance
To be honest getting told you have a proshipper artstyle hurts me abit like i have a rather soft and bit anime like artsyle so some in my social group may say my artstyle looks like a pro shipper like i wish i could just draw things adorned in silly lil childish artstyle peacefully without getting called that harmful in title !! (´・д・｀)
Yeah, in this video I more so dove into the noncon side of things, which should’ve been clarified but I forgot, since it’s the main side of comshipping people have seen.
@@HolderofPlaces yeah its a bit surprising. technically so is oc x canon or selfshipping (persona x canon) and any ship thats technically not canon at all wouldve been at least considered proshipping. (This is ignoring the new definition that tiktok users have given it)
So human x non human are com ships I don't understand is that something bad should we not draw ships like that? 😮 ( I have several anthro x human ships so I feel a bit confused here..😅)
The funniest shit is that Proshipper literally just meant, "For in support of shipping" it didn't even mean "problematic" it was like old school tumblr "Pro Sasusaku" However, cuz the other side was desperate they basically lied and CHANGED the definition and it's even FUNNIER CUZ THEY were the ones who invented Com/dark shipper because they were BLATANT hypocrites
Tw/cw mentioning of abuse, bullying, d3ath threats etc. Let's be honest, I'm a procomshipper myself. I have no goddamn idea why antis think we support all this shit in real life when we actually DON'T. Most of times we show all these relationships in comships unhealthy and dangerous. For the most of us comshipping is just a coping mechanism for our traumas. In fact, it's one of the safiest of them because you just sit in your room and ship two or more FICTIONAL characters. And we always(at least almost) put tw on our works and add antis dni, but somehow antis still blaming us for triggering someone. I want people to know that we don't wanna argue with anyone, don't wanna get doxxed, hated and bullied, don't wanna receive d3ath or any other assault wishes and threats just because WE SHIP FICTIONAL CHARACTERS AS OUR COPING MECHANISM. Thank you for the video and thanks for telling that antis shouldn't harass and bully literal kids(because for some reason they can't think of it themselves) Talking personally about MY situation, well.. the thing is that I've been for my whole life abused by my mother. And now my favourite shipping dynamic is wlw abuse(wlw is because I'm a cis girl). Seems connected, doesn't it? When I ship these pairing I feel relieved, like I'm not alone and it helps me accept my situation and deal with it. I actually combine comshipping with music and vents, so I'm not very active in shipping community, but whatever. And as long as comshipping actually helps traumatized people feel better I don't see anything wrong.
phenomenal video love how you covered all the bases and provided an engaging discussion on the topic. The art style was incredible and the research was top-notch. Great job overall! I look forward to seeing what else you create in the future.
I left the proship crowd back in 2021 and the antis you mentioned who are ok with bullying proshippers is what prevented me from actually looking outside the community and listening to the arguments against proship stuff like incest, noncon, and the like. Made me think that ALL antis were like that because the harassing ones were so damn vocal. I was exposed to lolicon as a 15 year old and so much problematic stuff was normalized on deviantart and tumblr in the early 2010s so that didn't help. I'm honestly glad you brought up the harassing antis because they piss me off and I've also seen some proshippers who are just as bad with harassment and bullying recently.
ex comshipper here i was into this stuff due to how terrible my life has been, i have enjoyed it bcuz "oh my fav charecter is going through the same stuff as me now that i ship them! im no longer alone!" and sometimes even now, when i cant cope in any other way i do look at some stuff in this community bcuz like stated,desensitized. i want to be numb to it, therapy has made me slowly lose the numb bcuz of opening my eyes to just how bad my life was and how bad my coping mechanism was, comships personally give me a feeling of false nastolgia.. like maybe when i went through really was deserved, maybe all the men in my life had a reason to use me, maybe all the woman in my life had a reason to hurt me.. giving trauma a reason to exist feels better than realizing that i was only a baby, i was only a kid, i was barely a teenager, and looking at that stuff normalized it to me, so that way i had a logical reason to be treated that way nowadays i do look at it, i dont endorse it, i hate proshippers/comshippers as well as antis, i just look at it to give the child in me a logical reason for the treatment, when in reality the only reason i was treated this way is that i was simply born a girl. yeahhh idk how else to explain why i liked it and semi like it now [again i am not actively looking at it or anything, only during ptsd episodes] hahhhhh :3
to be honest, i pretty much like gore because of not much of a reason, HOWEVER i dont know why i like blood so much BUTTT i absolutely LOVEE blood (the colour, the look, the taste and no i dont drink others blood, i drink my blood)
I do enjoy some content that generally has intense violence and gore, like Hellraiser, Friday the 13th, Family Guy, South Park, Drawn Together, Call of Duty, Halo, Mortal Kombat, and Postal. I might make art with similar violence and gore to what I like. But definitely not in a fetish kind of way, but rather in the traditional style of my already mentioned interests with intense violence.
1:37 fun fact, this art trend is pretty weirs in general comsidering its orgins, its the manga cover for "Go For It Nakamaru", that comic itself is very wholesome and sweet, but some of the other creators comics are just as bad if not worse than proshipper content. They have a comic called "Total Eclipse of the Eternal Heart" about two lovers being reincarnated, which doesnt seem like a bad plot, until you find out the love interested is a serial killer who r@pes young men before killing them 😬😬😬
(10:29) I'm an artist that draws "comshipping" as a venting method for my SA trauma. I agree that it's not a healthy coping method, and I do not suggest others to post their art when drawing this stuff. Even when I was a minor - I am 18 now - I would read and write fanfiction where a self-insert was harassed, assaulted and sexually abused. I'm not the person to "like" this kind of content, but it grew on me as a personal thing. I don't like normalizing it, and I have a difficult time explaining to others why I read "sh*tacon" or "l*licon" as coping. People tend to see my views as jaded, and I've been kicked out of many friend groups and communities because of it.
the scene style of video and the topic being brought of is very good. I'm glad you're talking out about this and many different solutions and things that might be going on both sides. and just so much stuff needed to be known about this stuff especially when there are people who have a so called "proshipper artsyle" that are accused of this disgusting behavior.
Literally one of my worst fears when i try to post my new art is it being called "proshipper artstyle" because it is cutesy and anime like. The art community is so messed up and i feel like someone who isn't in the community would never expect that. Also once again, adorable art :3
this is why I refuse to post on TikTok. people abandon their brains at the door and just say whatever. the fuck even is a "proshipper art style" supposed to mean?
as an “anti” myself (i’ve kinda stopped using the term because i don’t like being associated with the really terrible ones), i think this is probably the best video i’ve seen on the subject. i have trauma with grooming and such and while i personally don’t like proship content, i just choose to avoid it. i think its still not the best for someone to indulge in that content, but as long as you keep it to yourself or keep it restricted to 18+ areas then whatever. i think the anti community also has a problem when it comes to where they draw the line between dark content they deem acceptable and content they believe is proship. proshippers seem to also indulge in dark content that’s shown in a very negative light but antis do the same thing! i think both sides are just really uneducated on the other and a lot of the antis i’ve seen actually kinda seem to push the limits on what’s proship and what isn’t. idk tho, that’s just me!
Think you’re completely correct. TBH I see many people who are judgmental about “proship” things say that they *do* actually like that kind of content, they just don’t like it being “fetishized”. There are many such examples in the comments of this video. “I like it as long as the work says it’s wrong.” “I like it as long as the author treats the subject with respect”. “I’m super enthusiastic about it but I always tell people it’s wrong IRL”. “I have an interest in it from a psychological perspective”. “I don’t necessarily ‘like’ it, but it helps me cope with my own issues”. One man’s fetishization is another man’s validation. And vice versa-I’ve seen plenty of works of art I personally thought were dizzyingly horny and dripping with fetishes being regarded as “wholesome” by an audience that simply didn’t want to acknowledge that in a work they personally liked. Basically, you can interpret your way into anything being a “good and responsible portrayal” vs a “fetishistic and immoral portrayal”. Whether or not you know (or presume to know) the author’s intent, you can still actively choose to see a work of art in whatever way you personally prefer, and ignore the parts that are inconvenient to your interpretation. So, what is the real difference between this kind of person and a “proshipper”? There are plenty of “proshipper” types who like these kinds of stories and fictional relationships for the exact same reasons, but because they use the wrong label and don’t quite disavow it with the right language they get judged…
as someone whos kind of in the middle of all of this, i hate when people use terms like 'disgusting' or 'harmful' to describe proshipping content. sometimes, i like to indulge myself in this sort of content as a way to explore the psychology of the characters together. i dont condone those actions in real life, infact if any of it was HAPPENING in real life id be the first one to call the police. if i did upload my content - which i dont - id use proper warnings, a lot of people in the proshipping community do, its just that a lot of people tend to ignore these warnings and harm themselves in the midst of it and then end up blaming it on said proshipper because they personally think that their content is 'disgusting'. its okay to have opinions on this sort of thing, but when you generalize a person based on the content they make and call them horrible names it really breaks them down and starts turning them into what you're making them out to be.
I think you talked about the topic in a very mature manner. A few years back I had a friend who was like this, I told and explained to them how it could affect them. They said they did it for the fun of it, which I thought was kinda gross/weird. I am not friends with that person anymore, but I very vividly remember it. You did very well discussing this topic imo. I love your vids and you discuss topics very maturely, it’s inspiring !!
I had a friend who was a proshipper and was trying to groom me into thinking it was okay,despite knowing im a trauma survivor of csa, and later on when i found out he was a pedophile who saw me as his..well, something i won't say. I reported them and blocked them without a second thought. I appreciate that you have made this video
@@superpandaidol_3 thats ironic coming from the side thats known for having lots of people outed as predators, all because of the ideology that falls apart quickly when you start connecting the dots. look, i dont mean no disrespect, but many antis have been outed as predators because so many of you groom (s3xu4lly or otherwise) minors into thinking you are safe adults because you share hatred for certain fictional topics. i would say its not a very safe way to know who to trust
@@vannillaAJofficial204 Okay…this really rubs me the wrong way because the commenter said “*people* will try to manipulate others into their ideology”, not specifically “proshippers”, so you’re basically just agreeing with the comment by saying that antis groom people too (since they fit under the “people” label). The comment never said antis never groomed people. Unfortunately, grooming people to feel superior is something that is shared across all communities. Also it just seems strange to reply to someone saying they got groomed by saying “oh antis do that too yknow” they never said that antis couldn’t. Sorry if i seem hostile, i know some proshippers dont share the ideas of what people think proshippers are. I just think that starting an argument from someone’s trauma is a bit distasteful.
It's refreshing to hear someone who doesn't care about what people ship, but has their own opinion regarding it. I don't call myself proship or anti or anything, but I like "problematic" content. Long as people add warnings or block people, and don't hurt anyone *real*, I don’t care what you do.
This may sound pretty weird ig, but I'd say im a proshipper? (Idk really, i find it hard to differentiate comshippers between proshippers) because i sometimes ship characters that i know are wrong together... but i do it mostly to comfort myself due to past experiences and trauma. I often find myself having intrusive thoughts about bad stuff happening to me and craving it to happen again just because i think i could have a bit of control over those situations again... but i know that would be horrible to happen again, so i project myself on my favorite characters. I mostly draw or write those things to myself and never upload those things on the internet since, again, it's for my own comfort and ig it would count as a vent. I do not view those things as okay because i know it's wrong... but i just want to feel in control of the things that happened to me, and how do i feel that? Through shipping because i guess it's harmless if it's for myself and i never show it to the internet. Maybe it's a bad coping mechanisms, i don't doubt that since i may have this topica normalized... but im working on it, i swear i am.
I mean, i guess it's ok, especially with the knowledge that it's NOT alright and you keep it for yourself. If you REALLY want to, you can go try any other coping mechanisms or maybe try talking with someone you can trust. (I suck at comforting but i dont want to be a bystander so i hope i helped in some way)
Serious question; has anyone ever run into someone over the age of 19 who identifies as a "proshipper" or "antishipper"? I was watching a few videos because I was curious about the topic, and I haven't yet seen anyone old enough to drink cover it. Seems like teen drama to me.
@@chillydog3188 I consider myself a proshipper because even if I don't like a ship or find it weird I won't harass people and that is what a real proshipper is.
I remember replying to a comment on some community post that was about pro-shipping or something. I basically said "But shipping a child with an adult is wrong, right?" And the person replied with "oh so you're one of THOSE people. I won't be able to change your mind." Like bro no I am not an anti-shipper I just think p*dophilic ships between a literal child and a full grown adult isn't right, even if it's fictional. I'm not going to harass any pro-shippers bc I have better things to do with my time. But those types of ships (p*dophilia, incest) are gross, doesn't matter if it's fictional. If it's wrong for a real life child and adult to date, then it's wrong for them to date fictionally 🙄
By the way, if you draw that type of stuff bc of trauma I think that's valid. I would suggest never posting it publicly however so you won't get harassed! I'm more so talking about people who romanticize these ships and don't see why they're wrong.
I remember a friend told me someone had drawn..inappropriate drawing of her OC who was…four 😬 And their excuse was “It’s my coping mechanism and besides 4 year-olds are cute” and…oof
I am a proshipper/comshipper myself so here's my take: There is no such thing as a proshipper artstyle, BUT: Many other proshippers just tend to get interested in the same styles within the community or get their own style from the same influence, such as shows like Invader Zim, Camp Camp, Gravity Falls and popular anime with often times fujoshi/fudanshi audiences (like Kuroko no Basket or Haikyuu) Oh btw, for anyone wondering what the appeal of proshipping/comshipping is: Some people just like the dark topics and "degenracy", not everyone is into coffee shop AUs after all. I think it's fine for anyone to dislike the dark themes/characters and get angry at people who love it (me) but if you actually come to someone and harass them or get other people to do it, YOU are the one being a weirdo in the situation Live and let live, ship and let ship, don't throw rocks at people. Just block and move on.
not everybody likes unicorns and rainbows and coffee shop au (i personally like these cus i don't like being sad and their cute) and some like darker things and that's fine
i really like how you worded things, it definitely came across as understanding but critical, which i think is important. and yes the excuse of “coping” definitely is not valid. what they are doing is creating the space they deem “safe” and what they’re used to, which is the trauma, this is not good at all because it keeps you in the state you’re in while experiencing the trauma. its telling the brain “this bad thing you’re attached to is normal” which it isnt and is just harmful and restricts healing. i am not a professional and i am only speaking based on my own experience in therapy and working on my own trauma, but i can speak as someone who has trauma (not SA but a different kind) being in the environment and seeing things relating to my trauma is not pleasant and it has often pushed me back when it comes to healing. experiencing a similar feeling i felt with the trauma makes me often cry and shake and dissociate and sometimes just dissociating. with trauma its best to avoid stuff that can trigger you because it gets you back into the mindset you had when the trauma happened. while i cant speak on this because i havent experienced it, it is plausible to experience pleasure from feelings relating to your trauma, this does not mean your trauma is invalid. id presume its a trauma response (please talk to an actual therapist about this stuff if you experience it, you deserve to heal and to live a good life) i think drawing and making vent art can help in some way, releasing these intense emotions out in a physical way is good for you, but when it comes to children and depictions of children when it comes to trauma and especially SA trauma, i personally think it shouldnt be posted for anyone to see because of creeps and other minors on the internet being able to access it, and yeah thats horrible, you might want people to recognise you and your trauma and thats very valid and reasonable, but sadly it can do more harm than good. id say to share your vent art with some people, hopefully especially a therapist or a trusted adult, but not with the world wide web. but then again, its a very complicated topic, because some people will find reassurance in vent art but at least from what i think, its better to not post it on the internet
As someone who uses art and music as a mental health helper and coping mechanism, I’m happy u brought it up. Music can help u in many ways, it just depends on what music u enjoy, also what brushes that art custom and don’t have QR codes do u use? But that art be slaying!
I used to be in the undertale fandom, and in that fandom I used to ship Sans x Frisk which it didn’t even occurred to me or that I focused on is that it’s a adult x child. I think some other problematic stuff that I have done would be erasure of aroace (I didn’t know they exist, now I have big respects to them, and is under that category myself lol), most likely harass other people for not shipping the same way I do if I get a chance on the internet, problematic relationships. Now I’m definitely am a better shipper or what I believe so, respecting other people’s ships, aroace people exist and lgbtq+ people not fetish (Ive never fetishized them but it’s a bit more complicated than that) staying away from those ships, block and stuff, etc. I am still a weird shipper but I have standards, for example at my worst age gaps. At least to my fandom nothings been said about their ages so I can make their ages close, and again standards and categories like this ones a kid and this one’s adult so no shipping between them. Anyways this is a really great vid it’s more neutral or gray area and that’s what we need more in this world which is understanding that there’s more complicated stuff. And yep it’s true that we need to be told it’s wrong nicely because I’ve never considered that Frisk is a child and sans is an adult.
When I was still SA'd I didn't catch up on how it's wrong, which influenced me in becoming a Proshipper. Because I thought it was normal, eventually I learned that it was wrong 3 years later so I did tell my mom about my SA and stopped being a Proshipper,
Hey! I'm glad you realised it's wrong and is not okay to make proship, and also Is okay you were embarrassed why you were a proshipper Is just you didn't know! And you didn't know it was wrong!:) , also hope you heal Is really bad you got sa'd hope you feel safe
12:50 fiction absolutely CAN influence reality. anyone who says that it doesn't or cannot should research randy stair, brandon hole & more infamously anissa weier and morgan geyser (HUGE tw for school violence/st@bbings with these). but if you don't want to research them yourself, the long short of it is that these folks all hurt others over fiction. granted, they're not quite the same as with pro/com ships but at the same time they're similar in the fact that they did some really messed up things over fiction. so if any of yall want to say that fiction can't affect reality? look into those, and i'm sure i'm barely scratching the surface as there's most likely even more cases where people committed atrocities over fiction
If fiction affects your reality then you need to get help. Your fictional likes don't automatically mean anything about your real-life likes. I like some characters that are underage but the thought of going after a real child disgusts me because I'm a normal person who knows the difference between fiction and reality. I'm not a proshipper but I'm not anti either. If I see something I don't like I just move on like a normal person should. Anyone who's fictional likes affect their real likes needs mental help
@paige8453 dawg i didn't say it's for everyone?? just for some like in the instances i mentioned?? but idk a handful of folks i've known, their fictional likes def translated over to their irl likes sooooo do with that what you will but i'm not here to argue. just gonna agree to disagree with ya 👍
@@unsterino A lot of my fictional crushes are underage but the thought of going after a real child makes me want to hurl. If someone actually has trouble differentiating between fiction and reality, then they need help. If your friends have real-life likes that are dangerous to them or others, then you need to try to convince them to get help because that's not normal.
I'm into comships when they're portrayed as bad and awful. I find it super interesting to explore what a toxic relationship can do to a person/people and many comships usually explore that.
there's a p3do ship I know of called "Billdip", and on Wattpad, I did a little bit of investigating and all the people who actually shipped it that I could find were minors, predominately 12-17-year-olds, largely spiking around the age of 16. so no, the whole "minors can be influenced" thing isn't made up.
I used to ship it, not at all knowing it was wrong. I now realize that shipping something that's probably older than time with a 13 year old is definitely not okay. (I was and still most definitely am a minor-)
finally a video on this topic that genuinely addresses the problem at hand rather than being like "ugh stop cancelling people over stupid pointless shipping wars!!!11!!!1! why can't we all just get along!!!!". ive seen some youtubers straight up defend all proshippers using the whole flawed "it's just fiction!!" argument rather than acknowledging there's a deference between portraying dark topics in a nuanced light and straight up fetishizing it... i have an inherent problem with proshipping as a label/community because the label actively takes pride in glorifying abusive relationships as opposed to viewing them in a critical light.
I never even realized that proship and comship actually meant things outside of pedophilia mostly because I just ignore most art I dislike or stopped engaging with content that brought up things of that and all I was shown was pro/com=pedo which is my fault completely- but I guess? I would count as one? Not that I endorse or even wish to be shown explicit or implicated art of child/adult or incest but because I enjoy toxic romantic imbalance in a sort of fantasy type of way such as murder/stalker/obsessive even boss ect, I didn't really think about why I seek out that content even if I know I've experienced it and do not want people to be murdered or stalked or threated in an unhealthy relationship, I would call it a sick fascination like dissecting a frog but that's taking away the fact that even if I never wanted it to happen to me again I do enjoy the safe fictional fantasy even if me myself am portrayed in it (such as y/n yandere games and fanfiction) maybe it boils down to trying to take control of the situation in a way that favors me or even me unheathily giving into the addiction that is abuse in a way that doesn't hurt me physically. I would technically classify as a comshipper since it is for "complicated" shipping, but honest I think I'll keep my "yandere liker" or "toxic romance"(I did learn was different then toxic ships somehow) title since it boils most of what I disagree with out even if it doesn't fit me so neatly into giving my opinion on such topics.
As an abuse victim, its so genuinely upsetting bc ik why this happens, its bc this stuff gets normalized to the victims, if that makes since, its unhealthy, and concerning, especially when people go on about how evil the under age proshippers are, and can come off as victim blaming real quick, ik from experience since i used to portray my relationship with my abuser through fictional characters, and i feel like people should be more empathetic twords underage proshippers
Honestly thank you for adding that part on minor proshippers, I hate people who harass comshippers because harassing them doesn’t make you a bigger person but also harassing MINORS doesn’t make you some kind of hero. Kids very much can be influenced into comshipping by seeing it but they can also be groomed into it and being groomed into believing it’s fine I’m an ex-comshipper who was groomed by adult comshippers when I was 14 that I thought were my friends. I’m 18 now and I’ve been harassed a few times over that and yea, harassing doesn’t make you some hero of the story especially harassing those who are no longer doing said thing
Also I’m kinda listening to the video as I’m typing and the gore argument is so spot on I remember I had a ghostface profile picture because it was Halloween and also ghostface is my favorite slasher, I had a comshippers harassing me over my pfp saying “oh if you think I’m romanticizing ab*se (someone reshared a post of that comshipper saying stuff about romanticizing ab*se and I commented on it) then by your logic you romanticize murder because of your ghostface pfp!!!” And I had to stare because what kind of argument is that. LMAO
I personally am into these problematic ships just to like them, I like the depravity. I guess the idea of knowing it’s bad is what fuels the enjoyment. I don’t really enjoy ALL problematic ships, but I don’t mind as long as people keep it a fantasy. Yeah it can influence harm, but not having this content it can also influence harm so it doesn’t matter in my perspective. All of these depraved fantasies most likely come from me growing up with unmonitored internet access and I actively consumed nsfw of all kinds, mainly these problematic dynamics. Yeah that’s just my personal thinking for it all, I hope it helps understand the mentality from someone like me 👍
i'm so glad i deleted tik tok, i post my own art on my private instagram so just my friends can see, it's such a breath of fresh air to just be able to hangout in your little art bubble without teenage drama every 3 seconds
the issue with comships is that it normalizes p3dophillia, inc3st, and abusive relationships, like we all know that it’s just fiction we just don’t want gross messed up things like that to be normalized
I would like to add to the conversation of this type of art with child abuse depicted (I prefer to just call it like it is) as being a way to cope: It is VERY NORMAL also and is more common than people like to acknowledge. myself included who experiences effects of trauma-bonding, fetishes, and effects of psychological abuse derived by my trauma. It is typical to have fantasies of their abuser and people who remind them of their abuser in, sometimes any capacity. I’ve seen people abused by their fathers as children, who’ve developed daddy issues that are visibly present in trauma spaces. Hypersexuality, happens too. None of it takes away from their trauma. Like you said, everyone has a different way of coping and I’d also add that it’s quite nuanced. A person who experiences these can be just as passionate, extremely sensitive to. repulsed and upset by subjects related to sexual abuse in their lives. The big difference between this and real life is the artist’s ability to control the narrative and what happens to the subjects in the story, which people do all the time and is liberating. when you know that this is what you are doing and that you also have the power through your work to show the viewer what you mean, what you want them to know about abuse can make immensely powerful and valuable works of fiction. In my experience, with making similar material in my teens with a problematic paring; man with an abusive male partner, (I’ve made art about children with children, but I was also 15/16 and it wasn’t violent. It was really weird and I regret making and sharing them with people who didn’t understand who I was, my age or my situation, but I did unfortunately) I had awareness that what I was writing about was problematic, I did intend to come up with a resolve for the two men but couldn’t get to the end without ending abruptly out of already realizing what a mistake it was. It was somewhat vital to my own understanding of my csa experiences, my brain had used that to process the trauma I experienced at a very young age without me having to remember the most of my trauma. and writing adult males in these situations made it so I wouldn’t make the connection, and THAT was completely subconscious. It was lingering in my brain, and would happen to various types of children in my head who didn’t look like I did, and I thought I was the worst person on the planet and that I was going to hurt children or that I was legitimately losing my mind which, I kinda did. And ended up in the hospital. I found out that I have CPTSD, thought disorder from very intense psychological abuse and DID, and my brain was subconsciously reenacting the trauma in various forms from people in my body including children technically, on people in my body, all altered states that were and some who still get stuck in memory loops. Years of all this and learning about my disability and thinking about it, having been shown that my brain had put aspects of my trauma in works of fiction I created was a massive shock at the time when I remembered i made it, and decided to read what I said after remembering trauma In an ideal world, I would love if therapists would be more open to discussing and actually helping and NOT overlook trauma in many people in general, but especially and including children that make this type of content. Yes, this stuff was also damaging to the CPTSD that I experience. Triggering myself without me knowing why I was, my disability was using in an attempt to, “make me capable” My quick summary to the question of if it does: no, it does not. People including children have the ability to choose, and a responsibility to share or keep their art to themselves. And with that in mind, I believe that art can help us see into and understand ourselves better, as it did for me when I remembered that word for word, some of the art I made of the two men were exactly what I experienced as a young girl and I had absolutely no clue. If someone is inclined to or makes this type of art, and they are children with trauma, I would suggest ideally that you don’t share this online and that you share it with a trusted therapist who is willing to listen and discuss the trauma one on one. In particular, what stands out to you, what in the context of your art are you most drawn to? And you can start there with yourself safely, and then safely with your therapist. I don’t think it’s inherently malicious to make this type of stuff, but it is not usually for no reason. If someone does or doesn’t have a trauma history, there’s still a reason for that too. It doesn’t automatically make you a bad person, and I don’t think it’s always in our control, but it requires some help, care for the subject matter of whatever you do choose to put out there and self-reflection to ensure that as many people as possible within reason, including yourself is not harmed by your own work. I wish someone told me this when I was 15.
I often enjoy darker stuff to cope, but I’m not anywhere near pro/comship. Because of this Ive had proshippers send me harassment for having “proship pls dni and don’t tag as ship” on LITERAL WHOLESOME FAMILIAL ART
Thank you so much for talking about this, also your channel has improved so much since 3 months ago your art is so cool and im glad your getting more subs !!
TW// (also sorry if this is just jumbled up i’m half asleep) as a recovering comshipper i do find it disgusting now but it was a coping mechanism because i actually experienced SA from my old step father and yes comshipping is disgusting but i was and is still a minor it wasn’t my fault it was influenced by my step father to create a coping mechanism for myself, i’ve recently healed from that and i hope other comshippers do heal
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Missing Everything [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dTYeMZGzOzw/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching! Comment down future video ideas that you want to see me cover!! :3
EDIT: IMPORTANT NEWS HAVE COME TO MY ATTENTION THAT I ACCIDENTALLY MIS-CREDITED THE FIRST FANART PIECE, THE OG ARTIST IS: foxel_in_a_boxel
Could you do a video about your opinions on head cannons and if they’re bad/good/neutral
Could you do a video on art roast videos
@@Sallyshome-et1nkI kinda already covered that in my fixing art video as the same things apply, if consented it’s fine to make those videos, since it’s usually in harmless fun as a joke for both sides :) as long as the viewer knows what they’re getting into and are consenting, I see no problem in harmless joking
❤❤❤❤❤❤10/10
@@BreDrawz *_Your art is so good_*
Rather than being a coping mechanism I think its more of a coping mechanism mixed with a trauma responce kinda how SA victims will sexualize themselves or become hypersexual.
I was think that, it's coping with the combination of SH. It's the main reason I never liked the argument that it's purely a positive coping mechanism because it's not. Becoming numb to something like SA/CSA doesn't mean you're recovering from that trauma. Posting it publicly in a uncontrolled setting can makes trauma worse. Which is why the confronting your trauma is usually done in private in a controlled environment.
Like the other person said, it is self harm. But unlike the other person, I will go more into depth as a person with hypersexuality. It is a coping mechanism, although maladaptive. You experience sexual intrusive thoughts and intrusive fantasies and experience compulsions in relation to that. Like you may feel the constant need to masturbate or to have sex. It's basically OCD but only about sex. And not everyone with sexual abuse trauma has it, people with dissociative disorders or other childhood trauma disorders also have it. It can be caused by other things.
Say that your abuser had a power dynamic with you, similar to sexual abuse, although they never groomed you, that can still cause hypersexuality. It's one of many maladaptive coping mechanisms out there.
So yeah. The solution is to have therapy and to develop a healthy relationship with your body. Like working on your inner child wounds and working on your self esteem. It's not gross or disgusting to be hypersexual. It's just a part of dealing with something that you didn't ask for. It's intrusive. So I do not blame anyone coping the way they do, and I don't judge them. I judge the people who judge them.
@@yukiandkanamekuran I disagree. Interacting with proship fanfics isn't a way of self harm, not to me at least. If the stuff I see depicted gets too much/ too real for me, like realistic and intense depictions of abuse, I leave it. And so do most of my proshipper friends.
Fictional media is not supposed to be a reflection of reality nor is it a bible that all people should follow. I am fully aware how fucking awful pedophilia and sexual abuse is from personal experience. SA victims often develop fetishes for their trauma which is a natural way of how the brain tries to cope with the suffering. Turning this trauma & part of me into fictional stories that I can use to empower myself and take apart my experiences has helped me a lot to actually deal with my trauma and not be a dysfunctional wreck in my everday life. Yes, problematic media isn't for everyone, and I'm fully aware of it, but it's just a fantasy and that's it. Victims of abuse all cope in their individual ways, there is no wrong way to cope. Calling a certain way of coping as "self harm" and something "wrong/ disgusting" and something that needs to be "fixed" is just cruel.
@@Austin-LA Exactly. I've found myself leaning towards depictions of abusive relationships after escaping one and I wouldn't exactly say it's healthy. Far from it, really.
@@yukiandkanamekuran i do agree, I just didn't go to in depth because I didn't want to start a debate of what's considered a positive or negative coping mechanism because that's subjective to person to person.
Explain with the depiction of SA/CSA in a in a victims writing/artwork at what point is it a method of coping or SH for the person.
That's where these agreements start about glorification and roromanticisation.
personally I "like" problematic relationships when portrayed as bad and unhealthy because I find it fassinating to see what those characters go threw and their mindset (kinda like when you watch horror and you feel scared) tho as I said, it's only when they do portray them as bad
I agree! Personally, for me it's just that I think it's interesting to portray toxic relationships and the mentalities of the people in them. Not everything is in black and white, same goes for toxic relationships. Humans are complex. As a person who has been in some notable toxic relationships, I also find it cathartic to see that I'm not the only one who has experienced those emotions. Another reason is that portraying these relationships as bad brings awareness to these issues, in order to help others who are in the same situation or those who might ever encounter a toxic person/relationship.
I especially like when a character isn't a perfect victim, because it makes me think about relationships in real life and the fact that there are people in reality...like that. But like you said, ONLY when it's shown as bad.
For the most part I'm good at detecting what's meant to be a negative relationship in a show, but sometimes a creator makes a pairing so vague that I have no idea if it's a healthy relationship or not, and that can really warp my perception of things. To clarify I'm ace and autistic-btw not saying autistic people are gullible or anything that's stupid, just some background information before anyone says the basic defense of art isn't real.
Of course it isn't, but have you ever had a dream that didn't leave you feeling some way? A daydream perhaps? Just because it isn't real doesn't mean it can't affect us.
@Vesperad0 That's why warnings are important, eventho I love this kind of media and can understand that it's bad things and that those are fake scenarios, some people can't, so creators should always put TW (which I admit I only realized this thanks to this video)
Thanks for sharing your pov btw, I find it really interesting!
THAT'S when it's okay, i'd say, stories about real abuse should be explored (in a proper and respectful way, ofc). but it's not really "shipping" then, because it tells a completely different story than what shipping is supposed to mean
Honestly, same. I want to add something but I don't really know what else to say because this has already said everything.
I doubt my artstyle would ever be called a 'proshipper artstyle', at least that's something I can be optimistic about.
Same but I've seen ppl call any art style pro ship art style sooo
Your art is beautiful!!
Same lol
your art is awesome btw!! subscribed :3
@@princess_sunny ahh thank you💖
omll the comment "proshipper artstyle" baffles my brains fr. how tf does an artstyle classify your beliefs? wtf is this tomfoolery? its just bs to me. anyways, congrats on 20k!
Exactly like??? 😐
It just reminds me of the jelly artstyle drama, it’s honestly so fucking stupid.
Fr 😨 art tiktok scares me
Its probably referring to more anime styles (commonly, some people get their artstyle called that for no reason) because a lot of Japanese artists get exposed for p*edophIlia because l*licon and underage stuff is more normalized there. But yeah, its pure tomfoolery that makes me laugh at their stupidity lmfao
the reason for this makes more sense for those who come across it and the idea of this "proshipper artstyle" clicks. Essentially it's just the unfortunate occurrence of finding an artist with a nice artstyle, looking at their art, realising they are actively shipping (e.g) incest with sometimes little commentary as if it's normal or understandable, obv you avoid the art cause wtf but eventually you come across the same situation, cool art, ah shit itsa proshipper
The consistent "artstyle" between proshippers is mostly perceived through anyone who's come across it, there's no actual artstyle OBVIOUSLY, but I can say I've noticed it myself
It's also less of a concept than a meme I'd argue, no idea what tiktok says, dc, but I always heard of it as a joke to cope with seeing this occurrence
Am I seriously the only one who thought proshipper meant professional shipper.
You're not the only one.
I thought it meant that too💀💀💀
Same.
Like their ships are so amazing that they're a 'pro' at shipping 😭😭
NO
the way you can just draw the godliest most beautiful hands out of NOTHING is crazy
Exactly like???
I can't even bro 😭
RIGHT????? And she did it with ease too😭
Wdym those r just hand s
@@Batbitesthesecond hands are really difficult for a lot of artists to draw, so it’s impressive that she drew it so quickly and easily while still making it look good :]
@@burntalphabetsoup6772 im an artist too its just the hands aren't anything out of the ordinary like don't get me wrong they're good hands but it's not crazy or anything
As someone who does vent art about s3xual abuse with parents and stuff I get harassed sometimes because it’s “pedo art” but it’s my vent.
Im very sorry, i also do vent art but i never show it to anyone because using art as a therapy just seems more of like a private thing to me i also keep it private because people are assholes and creeps
There is a huge difference between vent art and proshipping art. Proshipping art usually puts those traumatizing experiences on a positive light while vent art doesn't. People need to think about that more
im so sorry people harass you! you never deserve that 🫂
you probably shouldn't post that online because you will get harassed /pos
@@Janiya_H531 yea, but what scares me is pedos trying to get commissions from me the most. two have already done so and I got scared so I did that art for them...
This video was so true I’m not a pro shipper but have a very Chibi, anime-like style and seeing “pro shipper” on artists who have a similar art style makes me wanna delete social media forever.
tiktok is a wild breed man. Idk how ppl are so toxic in that app nowadays. Kind of sad that tiktok was actually nicer back then.
Fr
I have a chibi-ish art style but still draw a tiny bit of SUS art. Is that bad?! It’s not SUS-sus- just kissing that’s all..
@@PAWDUST__ As long as the people kissing are not an adult and a minor with an illegal age gap, you're in the clear. Someone's who's not in the clear for instance, is the writer of a very common comic called Springtrap and Deliah which feature's pedophilic undertones, (For context Deliah is Fourteen and Springtrap is in his late forties/early fifties) This is wrong because its pedophilia. With a chibi art style sometimes it can look like the character's your drawing are younger but as long as you know, and people viewing you art know that the characters are BOTH consenting adults then it's perfectly fine. Hope this helped!!! >:)
@@PAWDUST__From what I think, kissing shouldn't be sus. I mean, do whatever you wanna do, really. I think it's fine
dude you have no idea how much I appreciate you putting the brush codes
Her, it's Actually She or lady.
@@sbplankton_1999 dude’s neutral dawg🪦
@@sbplankton_1999 i call everyone dude despite gender 🔥
@@ihavenoideawhattomakethisso you like dudes? /ref
@@Floralaie LMAO
I think the reason why people automatically associate anime-like styles with proshipping is because it's usually Japanese artists that get caught out for being comshippers, since gross stuff like sh*tacon and l*licon is so normalized/popular in Japan
It's less "normalized" and more just general apathy and a desire to not pry into others' business.
It's not even considered normal in japan, really. Just not uncommon for anime/otaku spaces specifically.
@@siomeiyin yeah, and even then most lolisho and other taboo fetish media gets relegated to the back end of any otaku store that stocks them anyways.
I'd also add Japan notoriously has a problem with SA and sexual misconduct going underreported, though I believe this issue is more tied to deeply-rooted systemic issues.
@@ArbitraryOutcomedoes that make it better though?
@@ArbitraryOutcomethat, I can understand
as a disclaimer for this comment, i'm an adult who has a degree in literary studies (general literature), and is a trauma survivor. for me personally, ships have more been about the character dynamics and the story they're sent in. when i was an active member of multiple fandoms, the most important thing to me in ships was what kind of dynamic the characters have with one another, not any kind of "gratification". i enjoyed these dynamics for what they brought to the story, and that also includes problematic thematics. the existence of problematic dynamics in media is not inherently an issue or a reflection of the creator’s nor the consumer’s moral values. we have to be able to dissect different forms of trauma in media, because it needs to be represented.
in short, liking a com-ship is not always about some personal gratification. sometimes it’s about storytelling and the way art is able to portray these extremely problematic dynamics, because only art is able to do what art does.
that wouldn't be considered shipping then?? having bad things or a relationship in your story doesn't mean that you ship it. shipping usually describes romantising the relationship between two characters. which isn't inherently bad but it is when people do so to portray grooming and p3dophilia as cute and normal, instead of the horrors it actually is. which unfortunately is what a lot of people do, and that's especially dangerous since most fandom spaces largely consist of kids. and the last thing children need to be told is that "the relationship between a child and adult can be cute and healthy in theory."
you are pretty much right but what you're describing isn't shipping. liking messed up content doesn't mean you ship it. /nm
so true!!
Incredibly well said
@@sillyspiderwell they themselves said that it’s not “inherently” bad, we’re talking about the same thing here…….
i dont have a problem with problematic ships just as long as they're portrayed as unhealthy but honestly its just so baffling that ppl compare gore art to incestuous or pedophilic art like yall be competing in the olympics with these mental gymnastics 💀
You read my mind omfg 🤭
Finally someone said it... I'm fine with gore in cartoons or art, especially if it's not explicit, but fetishizing and romanticizing horrible things which you listed is a whole different thing from the cartoonish blood and violence. And it's ridiculous that people can compare it like it's the same. Mentally ill people indeed sometimes draw gore, but it's not half as bad as **cest or ****philic fetish and fetishes for other deviations...
@@hope539Exactly
Edit: Read ALL of my comments and stop picking and choosing what you want to read and don't want to read!
Edit again:(@hotsauce9422) I'm "victimblaming" but yet you're weaponizing your own trauma to police how other victims cope with theirs... Unserious. Since when is "Blaming fiction takes the blame AWAY from predators and making excuses FOR them." is victimblaming???! If you are not a licensed professional, you should not be telling ppl how and how not to cope. The only "bad person" here is you and anyone else that tries to conflate fiction with real crimes! Y'all are APART of the problem for silencing victims and trying to make them out like they're just as dangerous as their abusers.
P3do art and inc3st art isn't illegal for the same reasons gore art isn't illegal: No one is being endangered. What type of mental gymnastics are y'all on to think these 3 things are different???!
Things can be fetishized and criticized simultaneously in fiction (Revolutionary Girl Utena is the biggest example.) L0lita depicted p3d0philia in a bad light (and Nabokov strongly disapproves of it) but it is still banned in certain places bcuz it's STILL depicting p3d0philia.
If you're not a licensed professional, then you can't say what art is/isn't harmful and telling ppl how and how not to cope.
Edit: And you should have enough sense to know what's dangerous and what's not no matter how it's portrayed in fiction. It's not the artist/writer's responsibility to teach you right from wrong.
Also y'all must forget that there are a lot of ppl triggered by blood and gore. If not tagged properly or used unjustly, gore art can be JUST AS HARMFUL as inc3st and p3d0 art. Everyone has different triggers and everyone copes differently.
And proship isn't even short for "problematic shipping." It's short for pro-artistic freedom.
It means "Let ppl draw, write, and ship what they want and just learn how to block/mute." Not all proshippers are problematic shippers and "problematic" fiction is NOT MANDATORY TO READ!
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN TRIGGERS AND CURATE YOUR SPACE or GO INVEST IN A THERAPIST.
It's not that proshippers don't have squicks, we just know how to HANDLE our squicks without making it anyone else's problem.
@@andreaben9978An artist trying to scare someone with horror art is not the same as an artist shoving their incest pedo rape art in the faces of literal children or survivors of those things. Why are you so upset people are upset and grossed out by topics such as incest or other forms of trauma? Some folks don't like seeing their trauma being drawn as "cutesy" because it's demeaning. Plus yes, it is damaging for someone to make trauma seem "cute" or "desirable" if they went through that because they're telling themselves it was okay.
I myself am an “anti” not someone who goes out of their way to harass pro/comshippers. BUT! I have experienced something that starts with a g and ends with m. If I EVER had my style called “pro shipper artstyle” I would flip, it’s understandable why artists are getting frustrated with people calling their art something so gross and obscene. I would quit art all together
proship means anti harassment
@@mwlkyway2775 It seems more like a refusal to draw a line, something that is done to stop people from getting their feelings hurt. But the people it seeks to not hurt, are the kind that seek to hurt vulnerable people. Be it directly or indirectly.
@@mwlkyway2775 in my experience it isnt that lol. proship people tend to belittle my mental disorders to say “oh you really want to be like us and consume this content huh??? you wanna watch (bad thing) you puriteen” and they tend to not really care if that freaks me out a lot. Granted i block most of them so. they could’ve changed or matured
what you acting like rn: omg proshippers are toxic and evil people and also dont want to get called an abuser or pedo what snowflacks tehy should know there teh hurassers beacasue they dont want to get hurased @@TeapotsAreGreatHats
is you or op deleting my comments or something
The main reason I dislike anti-shippers is because they say they're protecting kids, while also harassing kids for deafening as a pro-shipper. While pro-shippers also have issues, some anti-shippers come off as hypocritical.
at this point might as well not get included in the mess
Tbh it feels like most anti-shippers are kids themselves
@@OpheliaTerat So kids are “harassing” kids lmao
The main reason I dislike proshippers (im not an anti) is cause alot of them are hypocritical. I’m a 14yr IRL condoner dating a ped0 and proshippers harass me for it as if they dont fet!shize it through fiction.
a lot of antis are really really fcking hateful, they harass comshippers like they get paid for that fr
Fixing actual comshipper art is also an issue. It's pretty much promoting the art and showing it to minors. I've seen some that mention the original artist and a lot of them actively seek it out to post them fixing it.
YES!!! Thank you! This is something I see all the time. And if the actual art isn’t mentioned, kids go out of their way to find other pieces to make their own versions. Fixing/editing the art does literally nothing but promote the artist, since the original piece hasn’t changed, only the ones on the fixer/editors canvas.
@@BreDrawz Glad you agree. It's a real issue as kids see it. Sometimes it's even uploaded again by kids that fix it. Unfortunately the videos keep popping up in my reccomended
@ReigenPrim Yeah thete are so many and the people just thank the channel owner for fixing it. I have commented on a few but now it just keeps showing up on my page as well. People just don't understand why promoting content like that is not ok
yep, this is true as well
These people is Literally are weird
It's nice to see a video with a more nuanced perspective on this topic, almost all of them are extreme pro or extreme anti. Personally I'm just anti-artistic censorship since I've seen firsthand the damage it can do to the art community, and mental health. Also historically, censoring art is kinda bad, even the stuff that is socially unacceptable.
The only disagreement I have is when you said it wasn't a good way to cope. There are psychology books and therapists who back using art to cope with trauma, including more risque art, art and writing therapy is a thing. The only thing is it can be therapeutic depending on how you handle it mentally, which it would be advised have a therapist help you out, or you yourself be knowledgeable about the topic and understand how best to go about it yourself. I've met a lot of adult artists who use problematic art to deal with CSA, SA, abuse, etc., and it works for them, they function better venting all that trauma out on "paper". (Even the romanticized stuff has helped people because it's a return of control to the victim.) Admittedly not a big fan of people who say you should/shouldn't cope a certain way, this should be designated to psychologists, specifically those who've worked directly with the person since everyone copes differently. Totally pro-blocking and filtering your online experience if you can, the tools are usually there, and it's more productive for you, your health and the other parties to just get them off your feed rather than harass and dog-pile.
Now when you get children doing it, and getting involved is definitely a big 'NO'. Even if you get that 1% who understand what it's for, and also uses it to cope, they still should wait till adulthood to engage in adult content. Since it's literally illegal, and as you said, there can be predators. Though you can argue preds are everywhere, and many have used innocent kid friendly material to attract children before.
I must be on the unicorn side of this community because every pro/comshipper I follow hates kids, saturates their stuff in warnings and some even go as far as to block anyone who doesn't publicize their age on social media.
I didn’t mean to say the coping part as fact, or even a completely solid opinion, hence why I clarified that in the video that it should not be taken as fact since it isn’t. That statement mostly rose from speculation and curiosity, which is why I asked for those that are more knowledgeable about the topic to inform me in the comments. I didn’t intend for it come come off as “that’s a bad coping mechanism” it was more of “I’m not sure if it is, so inform me if I’m wrong”
Most the pro/comshippers I see usually don’t take time to make sure kids are seeing their content or add warnings, though i think it really depends on the side of the algorithm you’re on with the subject, as with most things since the sides can usually be complete opposites. But I do know there are many online pro/comshippers that censor their work, that segment was more so targeted towards those that don’t, which is why I showed examples of pro/comshippers that do, to give them some ideas on what the warnings could look like. Thank you so much for giving your side and knowledge, especially on the coping part since that really was something that I was genuinely interested in learning more on. /gen /nm
100% agree. it's really harmful to the art community, the way artists have to restrict themselves from certain artistic expressions in fear of being misinterpreted. i'll also allow myself to add as to how taboo ship dynamics and art may interest anyone outside of having to cope with trauma; some people simply find taboo fantasies to be exciting, but still not something they'd want to actually act out irl. some claim this type of fiction is just entertaining to them, but i believe they could also be using it as to deal with daily-life struggles, not necessarily some deep-rooted trauma. same way violent video games may be fun as a "hobby" but also help you vent out pent up frustrations. believing that you're only allowed to use taboo content to cope with trauma, and implying anyone else is a creep; a lot of us would have to expose ourselves as survivors (where we otherwise wouldn't) just to validate ourselves. then such intimate information could be potentially exploited by some bad-faith actors, whether it's antis or trolls. that's why many pro/comshippers are in favor of idea that anyone can enjoy fiction however they please, as long as they're mindful of their own limits.
agreed - it can be healthy or unhealthy depending on the circumstances
TBH I think the lion’s share of the blame can be placed on social media itself.
You can block and filter all you like, but the fact is that Twitter (or X or whatever) is a website that has *always* allowed kids as young as 13 on its platform while also allowing people to post pornography, IRL gore, political propaganda and other content that is inappropriate for minors.
And TBH the blocking features are piss poor, you can easily circumvent them just by making a new account. Algorithmic social media will also go out of its way to show you more of anything you like or comment on as well, so even if someone makes one negative comment on a piece of art they don’t like the website will shove similar stuff into their face by no fault of the artist.
I think the internet was much healthier about this stuff when social media wasn’t as ubiquitous and things like forums and smaller communities were more of the norm. People could post all the weirdo outsider art they wanted to their heart’s content in their own contained spaces and it wouldn’t be exposed to audiences who didn’t explicitly want to see it.
as an adult artist who takes commissions, I need to be holding a certain amount of scrutiny when a client gives me their prompt. If it's not in your comfort zone, content or context, just say no. You do not have to take every job offered to you, and it's a very good idea to made a list of things you don't do on you commission info card or sheet.
you don't have to make content you don't agree with, and you don't have to be associated with those topics because you don't interact with those topics in your work.
As for gore, I enjoyed working with the subject when i was a lot younger (15-21) as a way to cope from child abuse and SA. It felt like I was able to control that narrative and that was gratifying. I could put my hurt on paper as subjects that were not me to process the feelings.
i was a little skeptical abt this video at first due to the amount of misinfo that is spread about the term proship but it made me really happy that you had an open-minded approach to this issue and your stance/opinion completely valid and agreeable especially regarding the “proshipper art style” which is absolutely a ridiculous thing in the first place and is just another excuse to harass ppl💀 I personally am strongly anti harassment, profiction and just stay in my own bubble really. I also think that people who enjoy taboo content dosent necessarily reflect on their real life morals and as long as they are keeping it in strictly private/adult spaces and using the correct tags,warnings etc... In all honestly the whole pro/anti ship discourse is so toxic and terminally online. people should really just learn to block, move on and curate their space.. As always your videos bring me so much joy, I’ll always support u bre❤️
I Am Neutralantiship,And Antiharassment And Profic And Recovering Darkshipper
The fact that "proshipper artsyle" is actually really cute and I feel so bad for people who get called proshippers because they have that artstyle. On the other hand when I see a proshipper with a cool artstyle I feel so betrayed because WHY CANT I ENJOY THINGS
Don’t look at it then. Artists with artistic freedom shouldn’t have to deal with it.
you can still look at their art my guy lol
ive said this once and i will say it again. being proship isnt inherently bad by definition. antis are the ones that twisted that definition beyond recognition
being proship just means you wont harass people who like different things in fiction. it means being FOR shipping, whether you necessarily like it or not
@@vannillaAJofficial204 hi, I was fairly uneducated when I wrote this and I know the actual meaning now!!
I remember i mixed up proshipper with multishipper, so i told people i was a proshipper 😭💀
Oh damn-😭💀
someone did this to me, i soley ship legal things 😭 i just like multi shipping/ rarepairs and they got mad and called me a proshipper
Same minus the calling myself a proshipper thing 😭😭
For some reason, the "pro" in "proshipper" made me think it meant the same thing as "multishipper". Seeing how much proshipping was frowned upon made me think that multishipping was also a bad thing 🤦♀️
i remember like just yesterday i very politely asked someone who shipped incest to delete my art off their blog (this was on tumblr) and they got weirdly mad at me. i had my boundaries up and obvious and literally just said "hey im not comfortable with [incest ship] could you delete your reblog thanks". and all of them in my experience have acted like this despite me (usually) being civil about it and only establishing my own boundaries (something they often try to preach about with "dont like dont read"). theyre wild.
thats so awful omg!! i one day hope for my art to gain more traction and my ocs to have a small fnabase but if it ever gets to the point where blogs like that are reblogging them i think id loose all hope
@@rubydiprose8968 yeah it can be upsetting as helll
Do you have anywhere where u post art? I love finding new artists
@@lightlysalted2564 heyyyy sorry for inserting myself here. I hate self promos in RUclips comment sections but since you said you love finding new artists I’m going to become the one thing I hate 😭 but I’m going to post a (possibly short form) video soon that shows ALL the art for sale on my Etsy account. I got some pretty cool stuff, like a Micheal Jackson album cover painted on a record. I might also make a long form video where I talk about some of the pieces. But I just posted about a Kenny Scharf inspired piece in a short form video if you wanna check it out :)
You’re probably one of the most respected commentators in my opinion, you’re actually having good opinions and calling out some weird behavior, and I am very much respect for that
Hi! As someone who is a psychology student (not college, just my own studies pre-college) and someone who would consider themself profic/proship, I'd like to make a few points. First of all, this video was amazingly made; you brought up good points and stated your opinion and made sure that the audience understood it was just your opinion and not you pushing it as a fact. Second, I'd like to explain a bit about why comshippers and darkshippers may be interested in this type of content and whether it's good or not. First of all, yes, seeing this content can desensitize you and make you believe it is ok irl. This is why comshippers/darkshippers must keep any NSFW art away from minors, and make sure to properly tag their work. There may also be mentally vulnerable people (such as sexual violence victims or those with psychosis) who can and will be more disturbed by this sort of dark content. Any type of content can be triggering, ranging from something completely wholesome, to gore, to a taboo or even illegal-if-real relationship. Some people may be interested in this content, however, BECAUSE it's taboo. The human brain is naturally wired to be interested in this sort of stuff. Humans watch true crime because they think "if this happened to me, what would I do?" Dark content can help people learn ways to survive a situation without being in that situation, so if something bad DID happen to them, they could see a reference in fiction how the situation may or may not play out and what they can do. The human brain also likes dark topics because of the adrenaline rush. Adrenaline is one of the only true addictions humans are born with. Traumatized individuals may use taboo ships to cope for the purpose of being in control. They can decide when it stops and process their emotions of what happened to them. For children that are comshippers, I don't really know what naturally draws children into this sort of thing besides the reasons I've mentioned before. I would recommend all minors who do comship/darkship to keep it private and stay away from these spaces as many people who make 18+ content are in fact 18+. You also brought up in the video the "this content makes people less willing to act on harmful urges" thing. This statement entirely depends on who it is. For those with paraphilias, I would recommend they see if they can get therapy and/or medication to hopefully ease these intrusive thoughts and nightmares and find better ways to cope with their usually-chronic condition. If dark fiction is the best for them, I'd say go for it, but if it's not, maybe try medication and meditation. For those with self-destructive paraphilias, like masochism, I WOULD recommend fiction. If they have a partner, they could roleplay with them rather than hurting themself. Of course, I would recommend that those with paraphilias would ask a therapist or psychologist for advice before they look for coping mechanisms on their own like that. If they don't have a mental health expert in their area, then I'd recommend breathing exercises and healthier adrenaline-releases such as exercise if they get urges a lot.
I may have forgot to say some things, but I hope what I did put hopefully could help someone understand these points from a profic perspective as well as something more psychology-explained rather than just "fiction doesn't affect reality!!!" (It can and always will, by the way...)
And I'd also like to stress that even if someone disagrees with you, you are still required to be respectful. Telling others to "kts" IS illegal. There is no such thing as a wrong opinion, as opinions cannot be proven wrong; that's what makes them an opinion. But just because you disagree doesn't mean you need to pressure a child into offing themself. Text may just be pixels on screen, but it still hurts.
For whoever's reading this, I hope you have a lovely day.
As a proshipper myself. Thank you SO MUCH for making this comment! I'm glad people like you are here to help those like me.
thank you for your comment, sincerely
I'm not a proshipper and I honestly find it kind of gross so I appreciate your comment a lot because I'm interested on *why* people do it, but every time I read an argument about it they get so defensive and say things like "it's just pixels on screen!!" or "you antis are too vanilla!!". So reading your comment makes me understand them more :D
THANK YOU
this is the exact reason why I don't consider myself a pro or anti as the situation is extremely complicated due to human psychology
@@naturelight7517 As someone who's been in the community for a while now, I can tell you why they say that in arguments. It's actually pretty simple, it's a defense mechanism. They have to do it so many times that some just get really tired of trying to explain it since so many people just jump to conclusions without hearing us out, and then we have to fear the mass harrassment and even the potential doxxing. I think the whole argument can be boiled down to how all of us thinks of fiction differently, maybe you look at fictional characters and think of real people, but when I look at fictional characters I see them as objects (kinda like a dollhouse, I know that if I take off the doll's head it won't feel it).
SN: It's completely fine to think it's gross, everyone has their own preferences. We only ask others that if they don't like it, just block us. We don't want to argue, we just want to create art. It's just not fun to create if you always have to fear that people may harrass you for it.
When i was a child i was kind of a comshipper, it was because i was in the undertale au fandom and i think that is self explanatinetory, you know pj's daycare, that was some traumatic shit. I realized it was bad in about 5th or 6th grade and ever since i have bettered myself, and always tell kids in a calm manner taht thats bad and you shouldnt do that. I still cant write good tho sorry for my poor grammer
Ohhh god, yeah, PJ’s daycare and all of BlogTheGreatRouge’s stuff has left a permanent stain of this fandom. The way her art has affected an entire generation of UTMV fans is a prime example of why comship content is actively dangerous.
bro.. dreammare🤢 (it's literally a combination of both. Jack of all trades, half the time involving p3do ships, sh0tac0n and 99% 1ncst) they treated that shit like it was normal and even glorifying/fetjshizing it sometimes
I literally left the fandom over it lmao
@@howtodrinkwaterin5simplesteps Hhhh yeah I’m very active on utmv tumblr and Dreammare feels like the new Paperfresh, it is everywhere and you have to double, triple check that people are chill before feeling safe. It’s everywhere. Some of the most well-known and talented creators are down with it and that sucks, and it’s sickening to see people rally behind them and act like it’s no big deal (dreemurr-skelememer, skumhuu, and syxadel have way too many supporters like it’s insane-) and it is. So frustrating.
Don’t get me started on the mental gymnastics they use to try and defend it.
BESTIE, IDC IF CORRUPTED AND PASSIVE NIGHTMARE AREN’T THE SAME PERSON, HE’S STILL DREAM’S BROTHER, ISTG-
YEAAA i was in bad fandom spaces as a kid and therefore became a "comshipper" (that wasn't a word back then, but whatever) because LITERALLY. every single person said it was okay. remember "i don't care, i ship it"? that song in itself is proship 💀practically peer groomed into that shii. glad i stepped away from it and learned how wrong it is
@@InkSans_FandomSoda OMFGGG I KNOW RIGHT??? DREAMMARE IS EVERYWHERE NOW I CANT EVEN AVOID IT. IT HAS PLAGUED ME FOR TWO YEARS STRAIGHT - ON RUclips, ON TWITTER, ON TUMBLR AND EVEN ON PINTEREST 😭 I CANT EVEN LOOK AT SIBLING CHARACTERS THE SAME ANYMORE OR EVEN VIEW FANART OF DREAM AND NM WITHOUT FEELING ICKY AND WONDERING ABOUT THE ARTIST'S BACKGROUND BEFORE I LIKE THE ART💀💀
It literally SUCKS that the proshippers are getting the most popular. and OMG DREEMURR SKELEMEMER I KNEW IT. THEY SEEMED SUS BUT I HADNT CHECKED THEIR ACCOUNT YET (and skumhuu too??!). It literally does seem like that theyre everywhere and simultaneously trying to defend that shit and normalize it bruh. Do you know quincey/quinne or whatever their name is? they support the hell out of that ship and have encouraged *many* more people to ship it and they DID. Like damn, all these proshippers really attracting eachother like magnets😭
I'll also add shipping Passive and Corrupted 💀 anytime i see them together i immediately start looking into the artist's pfp. Like why do people even ship Passive with anyone? He's like 6. it's pretty much.. you know what😬
sorry for the rant💀had to get that out of my system
i do love problematic content. i do! i love saying, “this is wrong. let’s take a closer look to find out why.” i don’t write much dark content bc im not the best at it, but i very much like using fiction as a way to safely explore these topics. it’s a lot easier to use fiction because you can leave at any time.
Well put!
this is mostly in regards to violent content in general, but i struggle with intrusive thoughts sometimes, and my mental health is generally all over the place.
i check out dead dove content from time to time, and i sometimes write and draw some mild stuff (mainly gore/horror/whump/black comedy) just to get the impulse out. something about works that make me feel uneasy or squeamish and disgusted is cathartic to me in a way that i can't really put to words. it's interesting from a purely psychological perspective. it's shocking, it's moving, i can't stop thinking about it. in a similar way, i can't really explain why "calm" and "cozy" media often fails to appeal to me and keep my attention.
still, i don't feel comfortable in most online circles because i belive that there's a certain level of standard and care when it comes to sharing dead dove adjecent content publicly that most fail to meet. thorough tagging and not depicting real people, for one. even live action characters feel incredibly icky to me.
furthermore, i rarely share any of my touchier art and writing (unless i know and trust someone) because i don't want it to be misunderstood as me enjoying or condoning depicted subjects. it's simply an exploration, a way to shut up your brain when it won't stop asking you "wouldn't this be fucked up" and "what would happen if-"
i get that this kind of thing is not everyone's cup of tea and i respect it, but it kind of sucks that people are so used to bad faith depictions that they lump everyone under the same umbrella
2 months late to this but i suffer from ocd. I've had obsessions and intrusive thoughts regarding incest, p*dophilia, SA, gore etc anything really. consuming content portraying it whether romanticizing it or not has always made me feel better. it felt like my thoughts got out of my head for a moment and just stayed elsewhere
Im an adult and I’m personally under the belief that people as humans have the right to create whatever content they’d like without censorship. That does include really disgusting stuff that would offend our usual sensibilities. It’s part of the human experience.
Is it probably bad and or potentially unhealthy? Yeah, maybe. But so is the human condition at times. I feel as if people have the right to explore and depict whatever they’d like in their art. HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER…
It is our responsibility as individuals to not expose others to such graphic content whenever possible, and if we HAVE to (which lets be honest, nobody has to post their art online…) it should only be shared to other consenting adults who would wish to see that art, in a closed space. Key word… ADULTS. And it should be people within your same age range anyway, because a 20 y/o is gonna handle some topics much differently than, say… a 40 y/o, or 50 y/o…
But that’s just my two cents. I think the Internet is too unsafe for people who are younger, especially minors, when it comes to media literacy and having to digest that sort of stuff. But I’ve heard people say that people shouldn’t even be making such art and… I don’t know. I just think that life is too short to dictate what people do with THEIR art, to a degree.
god, i stan you so hard, i agree with your opinion, 10/10, i think literally the same thing
comship content is for adults by adults in a closed space. period.
Just saying but back when anti l*li shit was at its peak, a bunch of people into it collected scientific literature on it. Most of it & most of the psychologists who had done the peer reviewed studies called the fantasies with clearly fictionally depicted characters normal, healthy, and not a sign of p*dophiliac behavior. I was in a server out of curiosity to the debate, and there was a 5 page document listing sources supporting that but sadly discord banned it cuz clearly l*li = real kids meanwhile other servers with actual CSEM are still up and running
If I find it I'll try mention some of the studies done here. But really all the activism against it is dumb, even the FBI itself has told people to stop reporting fictional NSFW art depicting minors cause it's clogging up their channels for no good reason.
uhm no
@@lilerrriyait’s still bad and disgusting??
@@lesbianbat8420 stop watching horror movies then
Hi so I'm a "proshipper" idk I don't rlly like calling myself that cus of the negativity that comes with it but I guess I fall under that label. Whoever reading this pls just hear me out and read to understand . I'm one of the people who uses problematic ships art to cope with trauma, it's not an excuse and I guarantee most people who consume that sorta art use it to cope. Making that sorta art really helps me personally as it makes me feel more in control . It's my vent art. I never post any, I keep it to myself. I do not endorse or ever endorse problematic stuff. Just because you don't use it to cope doesn't mean others don't, not everyone is the same and it's okay. People are very quick to judge, I rlly wish people wouldn't be so black and white thinking. Thank you for reading and have nice day , also good video bre!
Honestly I wish the same, as people simplify this topic WAY too much, and it’s a lot more complicated than it’s made out to be. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
I fall under the same label too (as BreDraws says a pro shipper is also someone who supports all ships) I do not support incest or illegal ships however, but any other ship I’m fine with (for example, my friend /who I will keep their name private for safety/ ships Michael x Ennard, and I support her because I don’t want them to get mad at me and because they said their Ennard AU is different than the cannon Ennard /who is Elizabeth, AND Clara/) people would say I fall under the category because after I say another illegal or incest ship is disgusting I say “no offence or hate to anyone who ship them” (please keep in mind personally I do NOT ship any illegal or incest ships so please do not harass anybody who says “no offence or hate” after saying an illegal ship is disgusting, and please, when I grow on RUclips some day do not make an exposed video because I don’t ship Bluey x Bingo or Two x Four and say “no offence” after saying Four hates Two and Two hates Four or Bluey and Bingo are sisters.)
hey coming from someone who's been in that same place before
please please please be careful that your vents are not for pleasure
its very dangerous to cope with it that way
if you associate those ships with any sort of positive gratification it will develop into something out of your control
I barely escaped that
so please be careful
@@thembofriendsimp I promise I'm ok, I've been coping with certain vent art for quite awhile now and it's done wonders on my well being. Not going spefcifcally into my trauma, but drawing it in a positive way helps with alot of stuff. With saying that, I am intelligent and self aware AND DO NOT support those certain actions, it absolutely disgusts me. My morals will not change, and cannot be easily warped. I understand that's not the case for everyone, but for myself I am OK and it helps me (sorry if I'm not good at explaining) I appreciate your concern though and hope you have found great and safe coping mechanisms that work for you 💗
@@orangelion00 thank you
I wish you the best
i left tiktok a while ago (and i was always on the brazilian/cool older artists/nerd side anyway instead of... this?) so everytime i see new drama pop up its like hearing my neighbouring country is involved in a horrible devastatig natural disaster while we were having carnaval.
I also don't consider myself a pro-shipper or an anti and instead just a person with an opinion.
I agree with the sentiment that art shouldn't be forced to be wholesome and pure and that portraying something in fiction doesn't mean that you endorse it in real life (since by that logic, we should be sending gore, horror, or just anyone who writes something 'icky' artists to jail, and stories would be really borning.
I also enjoy heavy gore art for no real deep 'reason' while being super squeamish irl so I'd be a massive hypocrite to say that fictional interests/portrayals = endorsement.) Art that glorifies things like p*do relationships does make me uncomfortable though. Yes, it's fictional and not an inherit sign that they support these things irl and some use it as a coping mechanism, but I personally, can't find the appeal. I will never go out of my way to harass those who do though and think that behavior is scummy as hell unless theres proof that they think these things are okay in the real world.
Ignoring/blocking/scrolling to moderate your own space is always the best cause just as you said, trying to harass and argue does nothing. Just like with gore art though, there SHOULD be a warning that comes with the content so people know what it is.
When it comes to the 'proshipper' art style thing it's so ridiculous that it's funny. How on earth do you associate an art style with a type of fictional content? TikTok art community running on a single brain cell at its finest
(Sorry for the long comment, anyhow this is a really well-made video)
as a comshipper/dark shipper who is 14, you’re right about us mostly doing it to cope with trauma, and i think you make some really good points about how immature and unhelpful a lot of antis are and you seem really well educated on this topic so i appreciate that even if we have different opinions.
i think the reason we enjoy it is because we can project our trauma and struggles onto characters we like, and when our comfort characters are going through the same pains we did it makes us feel less alone. so like, i’m a csa survivor as well as someone who’s been groomed multiple times, so if i make up scenarios of a character i am attached to getting groomed/saed it’s comforting.
also, i’ve always had unrestricted internet access ever since i was like 4 years old, and being exposed to some violent and explicit content at that young an age made me end up having some weird fantasies.
i think fiction is a healthy outlet for these thoughts, but i always add trigger warnings to my content and don’t condone any darkship dynamics irl at all :33
I can get that, but I’ll never be able to understand why some people post it. What makes someone want to post something like that? Because in the end, your just openly sharing that to more potential minors who might think it’s ok to do it.(not saying you post stuff like that)
@@F4bes for ur first point, i could only guess its a personal choice for other people who relate to what happened. and i'd say that if someone posts it, they can't really control the public's reaction. the target audience is for people who share the same pov and agree that everything is just pure fantasy and should be kept that way.
@@F4bes we post it publicly because we want to find other proshippers to cultivate a safe space of people that have the same trauma and coping mechanism. as long as a video is clearly labelled as proship content at the start i don’t see why antis can’t just simply block us and swipe past the content if they don’t wanna see it, instead of engaging with it and leaving hate. by interacting with the video even just to hate they’re gonna get recommended more stuff similar to it, and additionally a lot of antis seem to really like sending death threats so they could be telling a kid already struggling a lot to kill themselves which is only gonna make their mental state worse and won’t make them want to stop proshipping. so leaving hate is counterproductive to both sides and it’s best to just not interact with profiction content if you don’t like it.
"anti" here (i dont have much against you i just dont like darkships) im glad to hear your side! Very interesting
I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree, but express appreciation that you used proship and comship vernacular correctly. The anti and anti-adjacent communities tend to misuse the words, such as using proship as a noun to refer to the ships, when comship is literally right there to be used as a noun for such purposes. I know that's probably a pretty terminally online pet peeve for me to have, but oh well.
To elaborate more, many proshippers view even anti-adjacent types as antis due to being on the defensive against stochastic terrorism, which wikipedia defines as "publicly demonizing a person or group in such a way that it inspires supporters of the figures to commit a violent act against the target of the speech." Stochastic terrorism is frustrating because those doing it will often claim no culpability because "technically" they didn't do any incitement.
For some reason, videos about proship/antiship discourse always claim that proshippers are actually equally guilty of as much harassment as antis are, usually without examples to demonstrate, let alone anything even remotely equivalent to what antis have said and done. These videos also always pull the "proshippers grooming a bunch of minors into thinking drawings don't have human rights, ooooh" card, and the thing is... I don't know how often that happens, or how many specifically use comships to groom others versus how many are just predators who are also proship or whatever. What I know is when proshippers discover harmful behaviors in their communities, the perpetrators get ousted. Those wishing to enact harmful behaviors such as "consanguinamory" or "MAP4AAM" relationships or whatever are warned about, and awareness is raised to protect others from such people.
Why some things are enjoyable in fiction and not real life isn't something I fully understand either. I think, as a general rule, the proship belief is that thoughtcrime isn't real, but there are thoughts that aren't conducive to healthy and prosocial living. For example, having an interest in real children isn't illegal or immoral unless it turns into actions affecting real children, but that doesn't mean having that paraphilia is helpful or likely to lead to positive outcomes for anyone, and it is concerning and should be addressed.
off topic but I absolutely love how u drew a scene kid :33 (I’m a scene kid myself!!!)
REALL!! I'm also a scene kid so It's honestly eye candy :3
Glad you said some of this. I had a friend (keyword had) who i think got bullied deeper into proshipping. Theyre actually something of a "lolcow" with threads documenting their own childhood grooming situation and their creepy asf art.
They started out drawing their childhood trauma and would constantly acknowledged how harmful and wrong their art was but after being bullied, being denied their vent art, and having their trauma made fun of they surrounded themselves with actual offenders who were comforting and hyping them up and we havent talked since. Their art has also become waaaaay more harmful and theyve posted it places that they shouldnt without TWs.
Basically because a victim got bullied online they got sucked up by a community that worshipped them for their problematic art and the whole internet has been laughing at the story of them and their groomer.
Yikes
oh jeez...that's pretty horrifying
Yeah. Bullying never works, and this is a great anecdote to illustrate why it can and does actually make things a million times worse.
If you leave someone alone, chances are their vent art will function as intended and they’ll move on eventually of their own accord. I’ve known plenty of people who were into some super freaky-deeky shit when they were younger and struggling with issues from their youth, but naturally calmed down as they got older.
But if you harass someone, it’s only human nature to get defensive and seek things and people that will comfort instead of attack you-no matter how “morally correct” the attackers may be. In fact there’s no right answer to bullying, since even apologizing won’t stop it. Places like kiwifarms and callout accounts on twitter are a serious scourge…
Im glad someone is talking about this !! I believe people are allowed to draw dark topics as long as its not for romanticization, glamorization, or fetishy content. Most proship/comship art is explicitly one of those two and i dont like that at all. I draw g0re occasionally mainly to improve my anatomy and also to test myself, see how far i can go!! All I see is that most of them are minors and i hope they move out of it since ive heard from most ex-com/proshippers it was unhealthy for their mentality.
Agreed!
Yeah, im a person who loves subtle horror or showing things that have a very disturbing undertone, and to test my writing ability I've tried my hand at showing a creepy pedo "relationship". I like showing the dark side of reality, because sometimes something written or drawn can make people see things differently now that it's their favorite character or whatever, but when it's being glamorized?? No, it's not cute at all. I like evoking the feeling of discomfort intentionally, because even if the characters are smiling and the victim looks happy, I'm trying to show it's a bad thing for them.
I think people just need to understand media better, like our media literacy is literally in the deepest pits of hell. But i also feel artists and writers and creators should be more responsible with their depictions of stuff-im not saying nobody can make gore or depict horrible incest, what i am saying is that both artists and nonartists should learn just how much of an effect art can have on reality. If art can inspire people to work towards their dreams and unite for some cause, or even some cliche Christmas miracle nonsense, then art can influence people into believing certain experiences are completely normal. And age is not a factor, anybody can be gullible at any age, children are just more likey to be so.
This!! I write content that could be considered "comships" (they're not really ships at all), but it's just to depict how traumatic those kinds of experiences are, and how rough healing can be. Several of my friends and loved ones have gone through that kind of trauma, and I could never glamorize or romanticize that stuff.
At the same time, I do very much understand the other side. A lot of com/proshippers seem to be kids, and even I (as a minor, directed at parents) had thoughts like that sometimes, despite not having that kind of trauma. It's usually either a symptom of either a mental struggle, unhealthy attachment/relationship, or both, though, and I really don't think it's fair to harass these people immediately. A lot of them just need help.
The problem is there's no solid definition for when people are "fetishizing/normalizing" content
as a person who consider themselves as dead-dove & darkshipper, i don't really like the "minor x adult" ship trope because it gives me the ick. i sometimes draw as a coping mechanism because of trauma, though :< anyways, i don't condone any behaviors that are morally wrong irl or anything. and yes, i was desensitized to explicit content since at a young age, which gives me intrusive thoughts :[ i may accept dark themes, as long as it's not fetishy :D and as for controversial themes, i'll be mature handling those :p
hii darkship isnt a valid term, its a yugioh ship and some ppl distorted the meaning but it is not a profic term.
@@maonyanooobros gatekeeping a word 💀
@@SandsUnderthetable I'm not gatekeeping a word, I'm a proshipper myself I just don't want our community using wrong terms that were stolen from other communities
@@maonyanooo that’s gatekeeping a word :|
@@SandsUnderthetable Yeah, it's called ensuring said word carries its proper meaning.
You are literally so real thank you for explaining!
Hello hi, I highly doubt you'll see my comment but I'll comment anyway. I'm a 20 year old psychology student and I really wanna comment on "I don't get why you'd like that type of stuff" at 10:20.
Stuff that are forbidden are much more attractive than things that are normalised because liking it or doing forbidden thing goes against what's supposed to be expected, thus creating a feeling of rebelion. Think of it like a kid who sleeps much later than when they should or stealing the cookie jar. When it comes to "proshipper" content (in quotes because I hate the whole pro/anti ship argument), it's the same thing. If 80% of the internet tells you that it's bad to ship X character, then doing it makes you feel or seen as a rebel, someone who doesn't follow the trend. Some people just find genuine gradification in doing forbidden things, whatever people wants to hear it or not. They're not even bad people sometimes, as in they don't actually endorse or act on these preferences, but everyone has flaws and likes thing that are abnormal. I mean, there's a reason why f*tishes and k*nks are so varried, and it is BECAUSE they're abnormal that they are liked. It's absurde to tell people that they're not allowed to like something "problematic" just because you don't like it or get it. I do agree that liking or participating in problematic content like drawing ship art of a character and their child, but most people who do that ARE themselves victims of SA or CSA. It's true that they should not harass or dismiss all critisism, but people forget that we're on the internet. People can and most of them will hide that they went through CSA, not everyone is as open as some are, and to classify people as either "valid because they said they went through CSA or are kids" and "Invalid if otherwise" is not going to help anyone. We cannot make generalised arguments aroud that topic because we cannot assume why people like what they like that easily.
I hate that pro and anti shipping argument so bad because people are wasting their time assuming who's valid and who is not, and only based on their content online (and that if we forget that a huge potion of people who engages in these arguments are teenagers on twitter or instagram which... not the type to have nuanced arguments). It really shows how people are much more preoccupied in looking good and "uncancellable" than to actually understand each other's arguments.
(ps : I also find how we treat gore and violence in comparaison with nsfw hypocritical because people will be okay with drawings of childrens being hurt but not if there's sexual abuse. We can argue that there are more fictions that romantisize CSA but I think it's unfair to turn a blind eye if the violence is non sexual. Violence is violence, whatever if it's nsfw or not.)
I love this response! This actually explains alot to me about why I personally indulge with some problematic content I don't personally have trauma with! Thanks for sharing :0
@scenelvcifer Also I need to point out that enjoying some problematic stuff restrain you from experiencing it in real life. That's why many people like violent video games or comics, because it gives them a safe way to experience it. However, some people shouldn't be exposed to it : teenagers (less than 16) because they're way too impressionable and most of them cannot fully comprehend the consequences of violence, and a very few people with very specific mental illnesses. Banning all "problematic" content is not the solution, but warning them about the reality of those subjects and to never replicate them is one of them. We can't stop people from seeking those content but we can tell them why they should be cautious with interacting with them.
(Tho i need to precise that it doesn't mean that every kind of violence is okay to show. Snuff movies and CP are not included because they either show real violence or a type of violence that only attract people suffering from p*dophilia.)
Thing with gore is that we are used to it because we are exposed to it more than we should. You can for example see gore in the news, with a search on social media or in a lot of games while SA isn’t really shown as much in media.
One reason it doesn’t might be that the people are often children who doesn’t really have any sexual experience or doesn’t know about SA or maybe people have experienced violence and gore more which leads to it being presented more
@Loifey yeah and it still sucks that we're desensitised to gore, especially as kids. The big difference is that we all agree that killing someone is wrong because we often portray killing as wrong, while CSA and SA don't always show it in a proper way, to the point that some people online categorise ALL C/SA representation as bad, in fear of accidently supporting something bad. But that's a very flawed tactic, because we have to understand why some representation are bad (sometimes dangerous) and why some are good and accurate. If we don't see the bad stuff, how can we know why it's bad. Education comes with confrontation to things you don't like. Of course, it doesn't mean everyone should look at CP or very explicit depictions of abuse, but we at least have to explain why certain depictions are dangerous and how to correct them. Censorship will only lead to oblivious teenagers that will never understand why certains things are bad, and might lead them to participate in ACTUAL CSA or abuse.
I really don't like that pro/anti stuff because, and I will repeat myself, it's way too manichaen to fully grasp the nuances behind problematic and disturbing fictions.
@@abberancestarI agree with the gore/violence thing, it’s definitely agreed upon. But another problem I see about C/SA is that people have really mixed opinions about it which you can especially see every time a RUclipsr get exposed and all the fans/nonfans discuss whether it was SA and/or pedophilia which is probably a reason C/SA is a hard topic to represent in media, it’s hard to please most of the crowd when there’s a lot of different opinions and then there’s also the factor you mentioned about being scared of misrepresentation.
And I don’t either consider myself pro or anti since they just constantly harass each other plus the thing about nuance
To be honest getting told you have a proshipper artstyle hurts me abit like i have a rather soft and bit anime like artsyle so some in my social group may say my artstyle looks like a pro shipper like i wish i could just draw things adorned in silly lil childish artstyle peacefully without getting called that harmful in title !! (´・д・｀)
Comships are not always bad actually! It can be immortal x mortal (adult mortal) or human x non human and stuff like that
Yeah, in this video I more so dove into the noncon side of things, which should’ve been clarified but I forgot, since it’s the main side of comshipping people have seen.
Those are comships?? Well that opened my eyes a little.
@@HolderofPlaces yeah its a bit surprising. technically so is oc x canon or selfshipping (persona x canon) and any ship thats technically not canon at all wouldve been at least considered proshipping. (This is ignoring the new definition that tiktok users have given it)
@@ratsmeat Interesting 🤔
So human x non human are com ships I don't understand is that something bad should we not draw ships like that? 😮 ( I have several anthro x human ships so I feel a bit confused here..😅)
The funniest shit is that Proshipper literally just meant, "For in support of shipping" it didn't even mean "problematic" it was like old school tumblr "Pro Sasusaku"
However, cuz the other side was desperate they basically lied and CHANGED the definition and it's even FUNNIER CUZ THEY were the ones who invented Com/dark shipper because they were BLATANT hypocrites
Tw/cw mentioning of abuse, bullying, d3ath threats etc.
Let's be honest, I'm a procomshipper myself. I have no goddamn idea why antis think we support all this shit in real life when we actually DON'T. Most of times we show all these relationships in comships unhealthy and dangerous. For the most of us comshipping is just a coping mechanism for our traumas. In fact, it's one of the safiest of them because you just sit in your room and ship two or more FICTIONAL characters. And we always(at least almost) put tw on our works and add antis dni, but somehow antis still blaming us for triggering someone. I want people to know that we don't wanna argue with anyone, don't wanna get doxxed, hated and bullied, don't wanna receive d3ath or any other assault wishes and threats just because WE SHIP FICTIONAL CHARACTERS AS OUR COPING MECHANISM. Thank you for the video and thanks for telling that antis shouldn't harass and bully literal kids(because for some reason they can't think of it themselves)
Talking personally about MY situation, well.. the thing is that I've been for my whole life abused by my mother. And now my favourite shipping dynamic is wlw abuse(wlw is because I'm a cis girl). Seems connected, doesn't it? When I ship these pairing I feel relieved, like I'm not alone and it helps me accept my situation and deal with it. I actually combine comshipping with music and vents, so I'm not very active in shipping community, but whatever. And as long as comshipping actually helps traumatized people feel better I don't see anything wrong.
phenomenal video love how you covered all the bases and provided an engaging discussion on the topic. The art style was incredible and the research was top-notch. Great job overall! I look forward to seeing what else you create in the future.
Thank you so much :)
I left the proship crowd back in 2021 and the antis you mentioned who are ok with bullying proshippers is what prevented me from actually looking outside the community and listening to the arguments against proship stuff like incest, noncon, and the like. Made me think that ALL antis were like that because the harassing ones were so damn vocal. I was exposed to lolicon as a 15 year old and so much problematic stuff was normalized on deviantart and tumblr in the early 2010s so that didn't help. I'm honestly glad you brought up the harassing antis because they piss me off and I've also seen some proshippers who are just as bad with harassment and bullying recently.
ex comshipper here
i was into this stuff due to how terrible my life has been, i have enjoyed it bcuz "oh my fav charecter is going through the same stuff as me now that i ship them! im no longer alone!" and sometimes even now, when i cant cope in any other way i do look at some stuff in this community bcuz like stated,desensitized. i want to be numb to it, therapy has made me slowly lose the numb bcuz of opening my eyes to just how bad my life was and how bad my coping mechanism was, comships personally give me a feeling of false nastolgia.. like maybe when i went through really was deserved, maybe all the men in my life had a reason to use me, maybe all the woman in my life had a reason to hurt me.. giving trauma a reason to exist feels better than realizing that i was only a baby, i was only a kid, i was barely a teenager, and looking at that stuff normalized it to me, so that way i had a logical reason to be treated that way
nowadays i do look at it, i dont endorse it, i hate proshippers/comshippers as well as antis, i just look at it to give the child in me a logical reason for the treatment, when in reality the only reason i was treated this way is that i was simply born a girl.
yeahhh idk how else to explain why i liked it and semi like it now [again i am not actively looking at it or anything, only during ptsd episodes] hahhhhh :3
to be honest, i pretty much like gore because of not much of a reason, HOWEVER i dont know why i like blood so much BUTTT i absolutely LOVEE blood (the colour, the look, the taste and no i dont drink others blood, i drink my blood)
I drink my blood too
I do enjoy some content that generally has intense violence and gore, like Hellraiser, Friday the 13th, Family Guy, South Park, Drawn Together, Call of Duty, Halo, Mortal Kombat, and Postal. I might make art with similar violence and gore to what I like. But definitely not in a fetish kind of way, but rather in the traditional style of my already mentioned interests with intense violence.
@@SixpenceSnailpencesame, that’s why I absolutely DESTROY my cheeks, tounge, and lips, as well as stress and boredom
I have dermatillomania so when I skin pick and it bleeds, I just suck the blood back in, and I've grown to like the taste
@@SixpenceSnailpence Damn, that’s metal as fuck. But at the same time, don’t forget to take care of yourself. ^^
1:37 fun fact, this art trend is pretty weirs in general comsidering its orgins, its the manga cover for "Go For It Nakamaru", that comic itself is very wholesome and sweet, but some of the other creators comics are just as bad if not worse than proshipper content. They have a comic called "Total Eclipse of the Eternal Heart" about two lovers being reincarnated, which doesnt seem like a bad plot, until you find out the love interested is a serial killer who r@pes young men before killing them 😬😬😬
(10:29)
I'm an artist that draws "comshipping" as a venting method for my SA trauma.
I agree that it's not a healthy coping method, and I do not suggest others to post their art when drawing this stuff.
Even when I was a minor - I am 18 now - I would read and write fanfiction where a self-insert was harassed, assaulted and sexually abused. I'm not the person to "like" this kind of content, but it grew on me as a personal thing.
I don't like normalizing it, and I have a difficult time explaining to others why I read "sh*tacon" or "l*licon" as coping. People tend to see my views as jaded, and I've been kicked out of many friend groups and communities because of it.
Totally unrelated but your persona looks like Ruby Gloom and i think that's epic!!! Great vid btw
the scene style of video and the topic being brought of is very good. I'm glad you're talking out about this and many different solutions and things that might be going on both sides. and just so much stuff needed to be known about this stuff especially when there are people who have a so called "proshipper artsyle" that are accused of this disgusting behavior.
Your art is so beautiful and adorable i cant 😭😭
Thank you 🥹❤️🖤
Literally one of my worst fears when i try to post my new art is it being called "proshipper artstyle" because it is cutesy and anime like. The art community is so messed up and i feel like someone who isn't in the community would never expect that.
Also once again, adorable art :3
The cute little sparkles in your oc’s hair :DD
I might make you fanart and post it to my community :]
Update: did the fanart :D
this is why I refuse to post on TikTok. people abandon their brains at the door and just say whatever. the fuck even is a "proshipper art style" supposed to mean?
as a semi sane survivor of the tiktok art community, i gotta say escaping that hell hole has done wonders for our mental health
as an “anti” myself (i’ve kinda stopped using the term because i don’t like being associated with the really terrible ones), i think this is probably the best video i’ve seen on the subject. i have trauma with grooming and such and while i personally don’t like proship content, i just choose to avoid it. i think its still not the best for someone to indulge in that content, but as long as you keep it to yourself or keep it restricted to 18+ areas then whatever. i think the anti community also has a problem when it comes to where they draw the line between dark content they deem acceptable and content they believe is proship. proshippers seem to also indulge in dark content that’s shown in a very negative light but antis do the same thing! i think both sides are just really uneducated on the other and a lot of the antis i’ve seen actually kinda seem to push the limits on what’s proship and what isn’t. idk tho, that’s just me!
Think you’re completely correct.
TBH I see many people who are judgmental about “proship” things say that they *do* actually like that kind of content, they just don’t like it being “fetishized”. There are many such examples in the comments of this video. “I like it as long as the work says it’s wrong.” “I like it as long as the author treats the subject with respect”. “I’m super enthusiastic about it but I always tell people it’s wrong IRL”. “I have an interest in it from a psychological perspective”. “I don’t necessarily ‘like’ it, but it helps me cope with my own issues”.
One man’s fetishization is another man’s validation. And vice versa-I’ve seen plenty of works of art I personally thought were dizzyingly horny and dripping with fetishes being regarded as “wholesome” by an audience that simply didn’t want to acknowledge that in a work they personally liked.
Basically, you can interpret your way into anything being a “good and responsible portrayal” vs a “fetishistic and immoral portrayal”. Whether or not you know (or presume to know) the author’s intent, you can still actively choose to see a work of art in whatever way you personally prefer, and ignore the parts that are inconvenient to your interpretation.
So, what is the real difference between this kind of person and a “proshipper”? There are plenty of “proshipper” types who like these kinds of stories and fictional relationships for the exact same reasons, but because they use the wrong label and don’t quite disavow it with the right language they get judged…
FINALLY!!!!!!! YOU TALK ABOUT THIS PROBLEM!! Oh and also, CONGRATS ON 20K!!!!!
YES HAHA!! THANK YOU!!
as someone whos kind of in the middle of all of this, i hate when people use terms like 'disgusting' or 'harmful' to describe proshipping content. sometimes, i like to indulge myself in this sort of content as a way to explore the psychology of the characters together. i dont condone those actions in real life, infact if any of it was HAPPENING in real life id be the first one to call the police. if i did upload my content - which i dont - id use proper warnings, a lot of people in the proshipping community do, its just that a lot of people tend to ignore these warnings and harm themselves in the midst of it and then end up blaming it on said proshipper because they personally think that their content is 'disgusting'. its okay to have opinions on this sort of thing, but when you generalize a person based on the content they make and call them horrible names it really breaks them down and starts turning them into what you're making them out to be.
That last bit annoyed me... I WANTED TO WATCH THE BACKGROUND BEING FINISHED
I just got reminded of that one song
IM A SURVIVOR, IM NOT GONNA GIVE UP (i think thats how it goes
@Nekomimi_oneSuvivor by Destiny’s Child.
@Nekomimi_one You’re welcome.
Ngl I was too focus on your speedpaint bc its looks satisfying to the point that I didn't heard what you're saying 💀
I think you talked about the topic in a very mature manner. A few years back I had a friend who was like this, I told and explained to them how it could affect them. They said they did it for the fun of it, which I thought was kinda gross/weird. I am not friends with that person anymore, but I very vividly remember it. You did very well discussing this topic imo. I love your vids and you discuss topics very maturely, it’s inspiring !!
Video topic aside, UR ART IS AMAZING????😰 IM DEVOURING YOUR ART STYLE
Nom nom nom 😍🫶
I had a friend who was a proshipper and was trying to groom me into thinking it was okay,despite knowing im a trauma survivor of csa, and later on when i found out he was a pedophile who saw me as his..well, something i won't say. I reported them and blocked them without a second thought.
I appreciate that you have made this video
I’m sorry that happened to you. It’s horrible how people will use anything to try and manipulate others into their ideology…
@@superpandaidol_3 thats ironic coming from the side thats known for having lots of people outed as predators, all because of the ideology that falls apart quickly when you start connecting the dots.
look, i dont mean no disrespect, but many antis have been outed as predators because so many of you groom (s3xu4lly or otherwise) minors into thinking you are safe adults because you share hatred for certain fictional topics. i would say its not a very safe way to know who to trust
@@vannillaAJofficial204 Okay…this really rubs me the wrong way because the commenter said “*people* will try to manipulate others into their ideology”, not specifically “proshippers”, so you’re basically just agreeing with the comment by saying that antis groom people too (since they fit under the “people” label). The comment never said antis never groomed people.
Unfortunately, grooming people to feel superior is something that is shared across all communities.
Also it just seems strange to reply to someone saying they got groomed by saying “oh antis do that too yknow” they never said that antis couldn’t.
Sorry if i seem hostile, i know some proshippers dont share the ideas of what people think proshippers are. I just think that starting an argument from someone’s trauma is a bit distasteful.
I love to see your videos while I draw, It's kinda soothing for me, and your art style inspires me 😔😔🫶🫶
'Imagine they pull up the fricken' mona lisa and say: "Omg proshipper art 🤢🤢🤢"
Imma say this one time and one time only PROSHIPPER ARTSTYLES DONT EXIST. -my irl friend
Instance of fiction affecting reality I have a whole cowboy outfit in my closet due to playing a game that had some cowboys in it.
It's refreshing to hear someone who doesn't care about what people ship, but has their own opinion regarding it. I don't call myself proship or anti or anything, but I like "problematic" content. Long as people add warnings or block people, and don't hurt anyone *real*, I don’t care what you do.
This may sound pretty weird ig, but I'd say im a proshipper? (Idk really, i find it hard to differentiate comshippers between proshippers) because i sometimes ship characters that i know are wrong together... but i do it mostly to comfort myself due to past experiences and trauma. I often find myself having intrusive thoughts about bad stuff happening to me and craving it to happen again just because i think i could have a bit of control over those situations again... but i know that would be horrible to happen again, so i project myself on my favorite characters. I mostly draw or write those things to myself and never upload those things on the internet since, again, it's for my own comfort and ig it would count as a vent. I do not view those things as okay because i know it's wrong... but i just want to feel in control of the things that happened to me, and how do i feel that? Through shipping because i guess it's harmless if it's for myself and i never show it to the internet.
Maybe it's a bad coping mechanisms, i don't doubt that since i may have this topica normalized... but im working on it, i swear i am.
@@Cyyruzzdid you even read the comment??
I mean, i guess it's ok, especially with the knowledge that it's NOT alright and you keep it for yourself. If you REALLY want to, you can go try any other coping mechanisms or maybe try talking with someone you can trust. (I suck at comforting but i dont want to be a bystander so i hope i helped in some way)
@@darwuzhere i didn't read the comment, what did it say??
@cd26906 it's okay!! I sometimes suck at comforting too. And tbh, it's a kinda complex topic, lmao
But yeah, thanks for the nice comment!!
@@agussxox6442 they told you to get f*cked-
Serious question; has anyone ever run into someone over the age of 19 who identifies as a "proshipper" or "antishipper"? I was watching a few videos because I was curious about the topic, and I haven't yet seen anyone old enough to drink cover it. Seems like teen drama to me.
Only in the internet.
I thought so too, but I have ran into a couple of older folks that consider themselves proshippers. They were all unhinged lol
@@chillydog3188 I consider myself a proshipper because even if I don't like a ship or find it weird I won't harass people and that is what a real proshipper is.
I remember replying to a comment on some community post that was about pro-shipping or something. I basically said "But shipping a child with an adult is wrong, right?" And the person replied with "oh so you're one of THOSE people. I won't be able to change your mind." Like bro no I am not an anti-shipper I just think p*dophilic ships between a literal child and a full grown adult isn't right, even if it's fictional.
I'm not going to harass any pro-shippers bc I have better things to do with my time. But those types of ships (p*dophilia, incest) are gross, doesn't matter if it's fictional. If it's wrong for a real life child and adult to date, then it's wrong for them to date fictionally 🙄
By the way, if you draw that type of stuff bc of trauma I think that's valid. I would suggest never posting it publicly however so you won't get harassed! I'm more so talking about people who romanticize these ships and don't see why they're wrong.
I remember a friend told me someone had drawn..inappropriate drawing of her OC who was…four 😬 And their excuse was “It’s my coping mechanism and besides 4 year-olds are cute” and…oof
They need their hard drive checked bro 😭
I am a proshipper/comshipper myself so here's my take: There is no such thing as a proshipper artstyle, BUT:
Many other proshippers just tend to get interested in the same styles within the community or get their own style from the same influence, such as shows like Invader Zim, Camp Camp, Gravity Falls and popular anime with often times fujoshi/fudanshi audiences (like Kuroko no Basket or Haikyuu)
Oh btw, for anyone wondering what the appeal of proshipping/comshipping is: Some people just like the dark topics and "degenracy", not everyone is into coffee shop AUs after all. I think it's fine for anyone to dislike the dark themes/characters and get angry at people who love it (me) but if you actually come to someone and harass them or get other people to do it, YOU are the one being a weirdo in the situation
Live and let live, ship and let ship, don't throw rocks at people. Just block and move on.
not everybody likes unicorns and rainbows and coffee shop au (i personally like these cus i don't like being sad and their cute) and some like darker things and that's fine
i really like how you worded things, it definitely came across as understanding but critical, which i think is important.
and yes the excuse of “coping” definitely is not valid. what they are doing is creating the space they deem “safe” and what they’re used to, which is the trauma, this is not good at all because it keeps you in the state you’re in while experiencing the trauma. its telling the brain “this bad thing you’re attached to is normal” which it isnt and is just harmful and restricts healing.
i am not a professional and i am only speaking based on my own experience in therapy and working on my own trauma, but i can speak as someone who has trauma (not SA but a different kind) being in the environment and seeing things relating to my trauma is not pleasant and it has often pushed me back when it comes to healing. experiencing a similar feeling i felt with the trauma makes me often cry and shake and dissociate and sometimes just dissociating.
with trauma its best to avoid stuff that can trigger you because it gets you back into the mindset you had when the trauma happened.
while i cant speak on this because i havent experienced it, it is plausible to experience pleasure from feelings relating to your trauma, this does not mean your trauma is invalid. id presume its a trauma response (please talk to an actual therapist about this stuff if you experience it, you deserve to heal and to live a good life)
i think drawing and making vent art can help in some way, releasing these intense emotions out in a physical way is good for you, but when it comes to children and depictions of children when it comes to trauma and especially SA trauma, i personally think it shouldnt be posted for anyone to see because of creeps and other minors on the internet being able to access it, and yeah thats horrible, you might want people to recognise you and your trauma and thats very valid and reasonable, but sadly it can do more harm than good.
id say to share your vent art with some people, hopefully especially a therapist or a trusted adult, but not with the world wide web. but then again, its a very complicated topic, because some people will find reassurance in vent art but at least from what i think, its better to not post it on the internet
i normally dont like negative content but i think your art and opinion so much i go out of my way to watch u (congrats on 20kkkkk)
dude 2 vids into ur channel and i am absolutely in LOVE w how u draw n the way u speak ur mind like omg
As someone who uses art and music as a mental health helper and coping mechanism, I’m happy u brought it up. Music can help u in many ways, it just depends on what music u enjoy, also what brushes that art custom and don’t have QR codes do u use? But that art be slaying!
The drawing in the background is so cute!! :D
I used to be in the undertale fandom, and in that fandom I used to ship Sans x Frisk which it didn’t even occurred to me or that I focused on is that it’s a adult x child. I think some other problematic stuff that I have done would be erasure of aroace (I didn’t know they exist, now I have big respects to them, and is under that category myself lol), most likely harass other people for not shipping the same way I do if I get a chance on the internet, problematic relationships.
Now I’m definitely am a better shipper or what I believe so, respecting other people’s ships, aroace people exist and lgbtq+ people not fetish (Ive never fetishized them but it’s a bit more complicated than that) staying away from those ships, block and stuff, etc.
I am still a weird shipper but I have standards, for example at my worst age gaps. At least to my fandom nothings been said about their ages so I can make their ages close, and again standards and categories like this ones a kid and this one’s adult so no shipping between them.
Anyways this is a really great vid it’s more neutral or gray area and that’s what we need more in this world which is understanding that there’s more complicated stuff. And yep it’s true that we need to be told it’s wrong nicely because I’ve never considered that Frisk is a child and sans is an adult.
When I was still SA'd I didn't catch up on how it's wrong, which influenced me in becoming a Proshipper. Because I thought it was normal, eventually I learned that it was wrong 3 years later so I did tell my mom about my SA and stopped being a Proshipper,
Hey! I'm glad you realised it's wrong and is not okay to make proship, and also Is okay you were embarrassed why you were a proshipper Is just you didn't know! And you didn't know it was wrong!:) , also hope you heal Is really bad you got sa'd hope you feel safe
@@QUITTEDACCOUNT yeah I'm clean for half a year now!!
@@Catcatkittyq that's very impressive! I'm glad as you clean for a very long time
12:50 fiction absolutely CAN influence reality. anyone who says that it doesn't or cannot should research randy stair, brandon hole & more infamously anissa weier and morgan geyser (HUGE tw for school violence/st@bbings with these). but if you don't want to research them yourself, the long short of it is that these folks all hurt others over fiction. granted, they're not quite the same as with pro/com ships but at the same time they're similar in the fact that they did some really messed up things over fiction. so if any of yall want to say that fiction can't affect reality? look into those, and i'm sure i'm barely scratching the surface as there's most likely even more cases where people committed atrocities over fiction
I mean, I think all those people you listed had serious mental health problems to begin with
If fiction affects your reality then you need to get help. Your fictional likes don't automatically mean anything about your real-life likes. I like some characters that are underage but the thought of going after a real child disgusts me because I'm a normal person who knows the difference between fiction and reality. I'm not a proshipper but I'm not anti either. If I see something I don't like I just move on like a normal person should. Anyone who's fictional likes affect their real likes needs mental help
@paige8453 dawg i didn't say it's for everyone?? just for some like in the instances i mentioned?? but idk a handful of folks i've known, their fictional likes def translated over to their irl likes sooooo do with that what you will but i'm not here to argue. just gonna agree to disagree with ya 👍
@@unsterino A lot of my fictional crushes are underage but the thought of going after a real child makes me want to hurl. If someone actually has trouble differentiating between fiction and reality, then they need help. If your friends have real-life likes that are dangerous to them or others, then you need to try to convince them to get help because that's not normal.
I'm into comships when they're portrayed as bad and awful. I find it super interesting to explore what a toxic relationship can do to a person/people and many comships usually explore that.
there's a p3do ship I know of called "Billdip", and on Wattpad, I did a little bit of investigating and all the people who actually shipped it that I could find were minors, predominately 12-17-year-olds, largely spiking around the age of 16. so no, the whole "minors can be influenced" thing isn't made up.
I used to ship it, not at all knowing it was wrong. I now realize that shipping something that's probably older than time with a 13 year old is definitely not okay. (I was and still most definitely am a minor-)
I love how you explain these topics (also your art is very good)
finally a video on this topic that genuinely addresses the problem at hand rather than being like "ugh stop cancelling people over stupid pointless shipping wars!!!11!!!1! why can't we all just get along!!!!". ive seen some youtubers straight up defend all proshippers using the whole flawed "it's just fiction!!" argument rather than acknowledging there's a deference between portraying dark topics in a nuanced light and straight up fetishizing it... i have an inherent problem with proshipping as a label/community because the label actively takes pride in glorifying abusive relationships as opposed to viewing them in a critical light.
I never even realized that proship and comship actually meant things outside of pedophilia mostly because I just ignore most art I dislike or stopped engaging with content that brought up things of that and all I was shown was pro/com=pedo which is my fault completely- but I guess? I would count as one? Not that I endorse or even wish to be shown explicit or implicated art of child/adult or incest but because I enjoy toxic romantic imbalance in a sort of fantasy type of way such as murder/stalker/obsessive even boss ect, I didn't really think about why I seek out that content even if I know I've experienced it and do not want people to be murdered or stalked or threated in an unhealthy relationship, I would call it a sick fascination like dissecting a frog but that's taking away the fact that even if I never wanted it to happen to me again I do enjoy the safe fictional fantasy even if me myself am portrayed in it (such as y/n yandere games and fanfiction) maybe it boils down to trying to take control of the situation in a way that favors me or even me unheathily giving into the addiction that is abuse in a way that doesn't hurt me physically. I would technically classify as a comshipper since it is for "complicated" shipping, but honest I think I'll keep my "yandere liker" or "toxic romance"(I did learn was different then toxic ships somehow) title since it boils most of what I disagree with out even if it doesn't fit me so neatly into giving my opinion on such topics.
As an abuse victim, its so genuinely upsetting bc ik why this happens, its bc this stuff gets normalized to the victims, if that makes since, its unhealthy, and concerning, especially when people go on about how evil the under age proshippers are, and can come off as victim blaming real quick, ik from experience since i used to portray my relationship with my abuser through fictional characters, and i feel like people should be more empathetic twords underage proshippers
Honestly thank you for adding that part on minor proshippers, I hate people who harass comshippers because harassing them doesn’t make you a bigger person but also harassing MINORS doesn’t make you some kind of hero.
Kids very much can be influenced into comshipping by seeing it but they can also be groomed into it and being groomed into believing it’s fine
I’m an ex-comshipper who was groomed by adult comshippers when I was 14 that I thought were my friends. I’m 18 now and I’ve been harassed a few times over that and yea, harassing doesn’t make you some hero of the story especially harassing those who are no longer doing said thing
Also I’m kinda listening to the video as I’m typing and the gore argument is so spot on
I remember I had a ghostface profile picture because it was Halloween and also ghostface is my favorite slasher, I had a comshippers harassing me over my pfp saying “oh if you think I’m romanticizing ab*se (someone reshared a post of that comshipper saying stuff about romanticizing ab*se and I commented on it) then by your logic you romanticize murder because of your ghostface pfp!!!” And I had to stare because what kind of argument is that. LMAO
It’s amazing how maturely you talk about serious topics
I personally am into these problematic ships just to like them, I like the depravity.
I guess the idea of knowing it’s bad is what fuels the enjoyment.
I don’t really enjoy ALL problematic ships, but I don’t mind as long as people keep it a fantasy.
Yeah it can influence harm, but not having this content it can also influence harm so it doesn’t matter in my perspective.
All of these depraved fantasies most likely come from me growing up with unmonitored internet access and I actively consumed nsfw of all kinds, mainly these problematic dynamics.
Yeah that’s just my personal thinking for it all, I hope it helps understand the mentality from someone like me 👍
It's always a good day when Bre uploads‼️‼️
AMONGUS EYES O0O 0:25
i'm so glad i deleted tik tok, i post my own art on my private instagram so just my friends can see, it's such a breath of fresh air to just be able to hangout in your little art bubble without teenage drama every 3 seconds
the issue with comships is that it normalizes p3dophillia, inc3st, and abusive relationships, like we all know that it’s just fiction we just don’t want gross messed up things like that to be normalized
I would like to add to the conversation of this type of art with child abuse depicted (I prefer to just call it like it is) as being a way to cope:
It is VERY NORMAL also and is more common than people like to acknowledge. myself included who experiences effects of trauma-bonding, fetishes, and effects of psychological abuse derived by my trauma. It is typical to have fantasies of their abuser and people who remind them of their abuser in, sometimes any capacity. I’ve seen people abused by their fathers as children, who’ve developed daddy issues that are visibly present in trauma spaces. Hypersexuality, happens too. None of it takes away from their trauma. Like you said, everyone has a different way of coping and I’d also add that it’s quite nuanced. A person who experiences these can be just as passionate, extremely sensitive to. repulsed and upset by subjects related to sexual abuse in their lives. The big difference between this and real life is the artist’s ability to control the narrative and what happens to the subjects in the story, which people do all the time and is liberating. when you know that this is what you are doing and that you also have the power through your work to show the viewer what you mean, what you want them to know about abuse can make immensely powerful and valuable works of fiction.
In my experience, with making similar material in my teens with a problematic paring; man with an abusive male partner, (I’ve made art about children with children, but I was also 15/16 and it wasn’t violent. It was really weird and I regret making and sharing them with people who didn’t understand who I was, my age or my situation, but I did unfortunately)
I had awareness that what I was writing about was problematic, I did intend to come up with a resolve for the two men but couldn’t get to the end without ending abruptly out of already realizing what a mistake it was. It was somewhat vital to my own understanding of my csa experiences, my brain had used that to process the trauma I experienced at a very young age without me having to remember the most of my trauma. and writing adult males in these situations made it so I wouldn’t make the connection, and THAT was completely subconscious. It was lingering in my brain, and would happen to various types of children in my head who didn’t look like I did, and I thought I was the worst person on the planet and that I was going to hurt children or that I was legitimately losing my mind which, I kinda did. And ended up in the hospital. I found out that I have CPTSD, thought disorder from very intense psychological abuse and DID, and my brain was subconsciously reenacting the trauma in various forms from people in my body including children technically, on people in my body, all altered states that were and some who still get stuck in memory loops. Years of all this and learning about my disability and thinking about it, having been shown that my brain had put aspects of my trauma in works of fiction I created was a massive shock at the time when I remembered i made it, and decided to read what I said after remembering trauma
In an ideal world, I would love if therapists would be more open to discussing and actually helping and NOT overlook trauma in many people in general, but especially and including children that make this type of content. Yes, this stuff was also damaging to the CPTSD that I experience. Triggering myself without me knowing why I was, my disability was using in an attempt to, “make me capable” My quick summary to the question of if it does: no, it does not. People including children have the ability to choose, and a responsibility to share or keep their art to themselves. And with that in mind, I believe that art can help us see into and understand ourselves better, as it did for me when I remembered that word for word, some of the art I made of the two men were exactly what I experienced as a young girl and I had absolutely no clue. If someone is inclined to or makes this type of art, and they are children with trauma, I would suggest ideally that you don’t share this online and that you share it with a trusted therapist who is willing to listen and discuss the trauma one on one. In particular, what stands out to you, what in the context of your art are you most drawn to? And you can start there with yourself safely, and then safely with your therapist. I don’t think it’s inherently malicious to make this type of stuff, but it is not usually for no reason. If someone does or doesn’t have a trauma history, there’s still a reason for that too. It doesn’t automatically make you a bad person, and I don’t think it’s always in our control, but it requires some help, care for the subject matter of whatever you do choose to put out there and self-reflection to ensure that as many people as possible within reason, including yourself is not harmed by your own work. I wish someone told me this when I was 15.
I often enjoy darker stuff to cope, but I’m not anywhere near pro/comship. Because of this Ive had proshippers send me harassment for having “proship pls dni and don’t tag as ship” on LITERAL WHOLESOME FAMILIAL ART
Thank you so much for talking about this, also your channel has improved so much since 3 months ago your art is so cool and im glad your getting more subs !!
TW//
(also sorry if this is just jumbled up i’m half asleep)
as a recovering comshipper i do find it disgusting now but it was a coping mechanism because i actually experienced SA from my old step father and yes comshipping is disgusting but i was and is still a minor it wasn’t my fault it was influenced by my step father to create a coping mechanism for myself, i’ve recently healed from that and i hope other comshippers do heal
I hope you’ll fully heal soon and I’m incredibly sorry for what that man did to you, I’m glad you were able to stop. Be safe and take care ‼️