Dr. Baden is by far my favorite Hebrew Bible scholar. I've listened to quite a few but he's the most analytical by far and shares the most provocative ideas on it as a whole.
I liked his point about Judah's mindset on the so-called lost tribes. I think a lot of people forget that when Israel was wiped out by Assyria... Judah was on Assyria's side! Israel tried to strong-arm Judah into a war they wanted no part of, and Judah turned to Assyria for help. Not to mention Judah spent about half of the 8th century as a vassal to Israel, paying them taxes and being forced to aid them in war. Most of Judah wasn't pining for the restoration of Israel as a separate nation.
That's all true, but Dr. Baden doesn't mention the very important fact that much of Israel's population, far from being lost, came to Judah after their kingdom fell in 722 BCE. Those ten tribes were a huge presence in Judah itself from that point on and their texts got heavily incorporated into the Bible, albeit with Judah's ideas always getting somewhat the upper hand, due to the strange reality of a small kingdom absorbing the population of a previously much larger and more powerful one. When you consider this fundamental fact, the whole issue appears rather different from what he's saying.
Until recently I sat under a huge, national ANGLO/ISRAEL MINISTRY telling us for twenty years the blessing and curses of Deuteronomy 27-28 are for those of adamic, Israel TODAY AND STILL BINDING. I give up. I feel like throwing the entire book away. I studied it 13 years now and it's not adding up
I think one could draw a parallel to Humanity’s behavior today, and how today’s public figures profess or declare ideas relative to current events. People are still manipulating information to make it conform to their own purposes and to even greater effect, due to the reach media has today.
Good gravy!!!! I always call out Jonah as the best prophet in the OT because he actually caused a change! And then Joel here says the same damn thing I always say! Love it.
@@DavidKing-qd3sp I do find it fascinating the reliance on a devil when the word itself should be enough. To be honest the bible is far more clear when studied historically in the context of when they were written. In it's cultural context. While I realize that what is found doesn't quite fit the mold modern theology has wrapped it in that doesn't bother me one bit. Does it bother you?
@@Vina_Ravyn ..........Iit bothers me when people attempt to destroy the faith of others...Joel is a empty man spiritually and will one day give an account to God...but glad to see you are a believer
@@DavidKing-qd3sp Wrong. I am not a believer but I do wonder why believers have such a fragile view of their faith that a little knowledge would topple it. If your deal is true all the Joel Badens of the world wouldn't matter squat.
@@Vina_Ravyn .........To quote you --It matters "squat" to me as to what he says because I know he has spiritual and intellectual problems...and I am confident in what I believe. But when I see him destroy the faith of others in the bible and God then it matters to me. So, when you say our faith is toppled by a little knowledge - it is not knowledge but pure "ignorance" which the uneducated believe to be knowledge...so that is my issue. If you fail to believe in scripture and God - there is no future for you after death - just annihilation as there is no hell. So, I would encourage you to read the bible....as for Joel....he does not know or comprehend truth and spends his time tearing it down -because damaged minds are attracted to the negative and have nothing positive to contribute to spiritual truth....as we say in theological circles - a pawn of the devil
Joel, you make a great point. Prophets borrow from each other. Matthew and Luke borrow from Mark. I recommend you listen to Ralph Ellis' interviews. He says what I already know, Christianity is Paul's movement. It has nothing to do with Jesus. If you simply compare Jesus' message with Paul's, the incompatible is salient and stark.
@@dericanslum1696 Yes I didn't quite mean the delivery, rather the expertise and deep knowledge of the material from a pretty objective secular Jewish perspective we don't hear very often.
@@dericanslum1696 I love when scholars break things done as if they are explaining to a five year old. That's how all that good work which scholars have done will reach a wider audience of non-scholar everyday people and break the stranglehold which the Bible has had over people for years.
@@dericanslum1696 I found him so difficult to listen to with the constant repetition of the word ‘like’ it drove me crazy I understand it’s a habit he’s probably not aware of but ….!!!!
The ads for Jesus that pop up in your videos crack me up. As if seeing a reenactment of a fairytale is going to change my beliefs. Yes, when I watch Cinderella I always believe it is a true story.😂
Jesus supposedly said that he was sent "only"to the lost tribes of the house of Israel.That being the case,he failed miserably.He didn't even unite the different factions in Judah/Jerusalem,let alone Israel..He said he came to turn family members against each other-no peace in sight.Even today the nation of Israel 's individuals refers to themselves as "Jews"(from Judah),but calls their nation "Israel." There's something wrong with this whole picture.
@@interman7715 You are right about Yod Hay Waw Shin Waw Ayin(YaHuWSHuWa). A somali offered me a koran and I told him I have the truth in my heart and rejected his offer. So he said " I told you what I believe, so you tell me what you believe." And I told him about The Father YaHuWaH and Son, YaHuSHuWa and when he repeated YaHuSHuWa, we heard a loud ovation and he even said it was angels and we saw a horizontal rainbow and a cardinal was flying across it and we both said it was a miracle. But he is still muslim. Even though the LOUD CLAPPING OVATION happened when the muslim somali said YaHuWSHuWa. No one was around us when the loud ovation happened and he was looking behind me and I was looking behind him to see where the ovation came from because the sound of the ovation surrounded us and my heart was pounding in fear like what just happened? No matter how much I've stalled THE INEVITABLE FUTURE TIMELINE, THE INEVITABLE FUTURE TIMELINE will come into fruition. 1. The sick children will be healed with utterrance of THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, YAHUWSHUWA. 2. The heavens will open on Earth for all to witness as the angels will commune with the healed children as the children heal the sick and feed the poor in THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, YAHUWSHUWA. 3. The multitudes all over the world will learn of YAHUWSHUWA. As that is the true Good News that will be preached and demonstrated for them to witness. 4. AT THAT POINT THOSE MULTITUDES OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO CALLED UNTO YAHUWSHUWA TO FEED THE POOR AND HEAL THE SICK WILL KNOW THEY WILL NEVER DIE OR BE HURT DURING TRIBULATION. 5. THOSE HUMAN MULTITUDES WILL LOVE EVERYONE, EVEN THOSE WHO HATE THEM BECAUSE YAHUWSHUWA TAUGHT THEM THAT HIGHEST LEVEL OF LOVE WILL SHOW THAT YOU HAVE ARE SINCERE WHEN YOU CALL OUT TO YAHUWSHUWA. YOU WILL HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND REALISE YOUR EXISTENCE WILL BE LOVE AND PARADISE. 6. THE ANGELS WILL SEPARATE THOSE WITH HATE IN THEIR HEARTS AND INTENTIONS OF VIOLENCE. AS THOSE WHO CALL UNTO YAHUWSHUWA WILL NEVER DO VIOLENCE EVER. SO THOSE WHO CHOSE TO FIGHT WILL BE DOING SIN. 7.THANKFULLY EARTH WILL BE CHANGED TO HEAVEN EVEN BEFORE THAT PROCESS, WE WILL BE WAITING AS OUR BODY PERMEATES WITH THE BEST FEELING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING WITHIN US. I FORGOT TO MENTION PEOPLE WILL BE RAISED FROM THE DEAD IN YAHUWSHUWA'S NAME AS THE SICK IS HEALED AND POOR BEING FED HAPPENS. Re: He made the ILLUminati an ofFer thEy Could not refusE!! Quoting: AlphabetA "They can certainly refuse, but refusal will result in falling forever down the deepest depths of this hell we're all stuck in.. So, why not just help everyone out of here, with everyones help?" "Love those who hate you and persecute you." -YAHUWSHUWA "Forgive them. They know not what they do." -YAHUWSHUWA "None is good but The Father(YAHUWAH)" -YAHUWSHUWA "“Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword." -YAHUWSHUWA "Those who understand WILL NOT TASTE HARM OR DEATH." -YAHUWSHUWA "The man aged in days will not hesitate to ask a little child of seven days about the place of life, and he shall live; for there are many first who shall be last, and they will become a single one." -YAHUWSHUWA The final tribulation will be conquered not by violence, but by FEEDING THE POOR AND HEALING THOSE WHO ARE SICK AND RESSURECTING THE DEAD IN YAHUWSHUWA'S NAME I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. -YAHUWSHUWA. Amen.
Any nation expelled for more than 200 years vanished / morphed into a different nation ,Jews are back after 2000 years as prophesied ,it is not only about the coming back part ,it was also prophesied that they will spread throughout all nations ,not moved to one different place ,not destroyed ,nothing else , two prophecies completely fulfilled to the very detail . Look for the rebuilding of the Temple next ,it will be intense ,read prophecies !
I think that most of these would still count as false prophecies. For example, what is the likelihood that pharaoh read the prophecies from Ezekiel (29-32) and Jeremiah, and was so concerned that the god of Israel would completely destroy and exile his country, and therefore he changed his ways?
Agreed. There are several significant and highly specific prophecies in the bible that foretold destruction and eternal wastelands for the enemies of the Israelites, which failed miserably. Egypt, Tyre and Babylon were all supposed to be totally destroyed and abandoned forever, but two are still active, viable nations or cities today and Babylon is an often-visited tourist attraction. So much for bible prophecies which were supposed to cause people to "change their behavior ".
20:13 ff Unless I'm misunderstanding what he saying, he's simply mistaken. This notion of Judah and Israel reuniting is imagined by multiple prophets of Judah. Ezekiel 37 15-20 is about the two sticks reuniting. Isaiah 11 12-14 discusses this as well. Both passages mention Joseph and/or Ephraim, which I'm almost certain refers to the northern kingdom Israel. Also see Dan 9 7, mentioning Judah and Israel both being scattered. (This was written in the year 165 BC!) Also see Jer 30 10, Zech 10:6 ff, and many others. @MythVision Podcast, if you interview Dr Baden again, can you ask him to clarify his claim that no one would be interested in reuniting the two kingdoms, based on the above passages?
@@growlings9238 I too thought immediately of Ezekiel chapter 37. Moreover, Ezekiel is expressing his concern over 100 years after the Assyrian conquest.
The problem with Baden like most historians, archaeologists etc. is they base their understanding on data. This changes every single day and therefore their opinions must also change. Usually later than it should be. He stated in a video on this same channel that Israel were essentially Canaanites who appeared during the late bronze age collapse which we know was between 1200-1150 B.C. The Mereneptah stele mentions Israel. That stele was erected approximately 1208 B.C. Before the collapse. The only reason an Egyptian king would even remotely mention them is if they were already a threatening larger collective of peoples which means they were established in Canaan well before 1208.
Just be good people. If you're not -then eventually somehow -you will have to reckon someway for what you do wrong. It goes around somehow sometime. By someone else, yourself, and god.
You are right about Yod Hay Waw Shin Waw Ayin(YaHuWSHuWa). A somali offered me a koran and I told him I have the truth in my heart and rejected his offer. So he said " I told you what I believe, so you tell me what you believe." And I told him about The Father YaHuWaH and Son, YaHuSHuWa and when he repeated YaHuSHuWa, we heard a loud ovation and he even said it was angels and we saw a horizontal rainbow and a cardinal was flying across it and we both said it was a miracle. But he is still muslim. Even though the LOUD CLAPPING OVATION happened when the muslim somali said YaHuWSHuWa. No one was around us when the loud ovation happened and he was looking behind me and I was looking behind him to see where the ovation came from because the sound of the ovation surrounded us and my heart was pounding in fear like what just happened? No matter how much I've stalled THE INEVITABLE FUTURE TIMELINE, THE INEVITABLE FUTURE TIMELINE will come into fruition. 1. The sick children will be healed with utterrance of THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, YAHUWSHUWA. 2. The heavens will open on Earth for all to witness as the angels will commune with the healed children as the children heal the sick and feed the poor in THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, YAHUWSHUWA. 3. The multitudes all over the world will learn of YAHUWSHUWA. As that is the true Good News that will be preached and demonstrated for them to witness. 4. AT THAT POINT THOSE MULTITUDES OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO CALLED UNTO YAHUWSHUWA TO FEED THE POOR AND HEAL THE SICK WILL KNOW THEY WILL NEVER DIE OR BE HURT DURING TRIBULATION. 5. THOSE HUMAN MULTITUDES WILL LOVE EVERYONE, EVEN THOSE WHO HATE THEM BECAUSE YAHUWSHUWA TAUGHT THEM THAT HIGHEST LEVEL OF LOVE WILL SHOW THAT YOU HAVE ARE SINCERE WHEN YOU CALL OUT TO YAHUWSHUWA. YOU WILL HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND REALISE YOUR EXISTENCE WILL BE LOVE AND PARADISE. 6. THE ANGELS WILL SEPARATE THOSE WITH HATE IN THEIR HEARTS AND INTENTIONS OF VIOLENCE. AS THOSE WHO CALL UNTO YAHUWSHUWA WILL NEVER DO VIOLENCE EVER. SO THOSE WHO CHOSE TO FIGHT WILL BE DOING SIN. 7.THANKFULLY EARTH WILL BE CHANGED TO HEAVEN EVEN BEFORE THAT PROCESS, WE WILL BE WAITING AS OUR BODY PERMEATES WITH THE BEST FEELING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING WITHIN US. I FORGOT TO MENTION PEOPLE WILL BE RAISED FROM THE DEAD IN YAHUWSHUWA'S NAME AS THE SICK IS HEALED AND POOR BEING FED HAPPENS. Re: He made the ILLUminati an ofFer thEy Could not refusE!! Quoting: AlphabetA "They can certainly refuse, but refusal will result in falling forever down the deepest depths of this hell we're all stuck in.. So, why not just help everyone out of here, with everyones help?" "Love those who hate you and persecute you." -YAHUWSHUWA "Forgive them. They know not what they do." -YAHUWSHUWA "None is good but The Father(YAHUWAH)" -YAHUWSHUWA "“Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword." -YAHUWSHUWA "Those who understand WILL NOT TASTE HARM OR DEATH." -YAHUWSHUWA "The man aged in days will not hesitate to ask a little child of seven days about the place of life, and he shall live; for there are many first who shall be last, and they will become a single one." -YAHUWSHUWA The final tribulation will be conquered not by violence, but by FEEDING THE POOR AND HEALING THOSE WHO ARE SICK AND RESSURECTING THE DEAD IN YAHUWSHUWA'S NAME I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. -YAHUWSHUWA. Amen.
There are millions of people who do not believe in God. Fine. I don't understand why it is important for a scholar to study everything about the Hebrew Bible and then say, 'It is not the creation of the Devine.' Is there some information or analysis done by the scholar which conclusive proves the non-existence of God?
There are ZERO "lost tribes" in Tenak. The only "lost" tribes are those absorbed into the Kingdoms of Judah and Samaria. "Benjamin was lost to Judah".... and just traditionally, even if it isn't historic, the smaller tribes were first absorbed into the larger tribes of Judah in the south and Ephraim and Manasseh in the north. And then they further got absorbed into the identity of the Kingdom. There would have been, if this was the real social order, people of all tribes living in the southern region and those of the southern region living and working in the northern Kingdom. We don't even see specific tribal identity after Babylon. Tribal land was "lost", tribal identity was "lost", but no tribes were exiled or scattered. The book even says a portion of the north were exiled and scattered. Plus. modern Samaritans tell a different story. And they still maintain the tribal affiliations of Menasseh and Ephraim, oddly enough, as well as Levi. They believe they are the descendants of the Kingdom of Samaria and this tribal practice might suggest that. Either way, all Israelites are descended from all tribes. IF tribes existed. It would be statistically impossible for them not to be after all this time and given the size of those populations. But it's MOST likely, as suggested, the 12 tribes are propaganda. They represent the Zodiac. We see this when they are oriented around the tabernacle, when the 4 banners become the cardinal directions, Judah, Dan and I forget the other 2. I think at least, it's most likely the 12 tribes had an original symbolic meaning, esoteric meaning, perhaps in the Egyptian, Greek or Babylonian mystery traditions, and then eventually it became "history". Or if the tribes existed, they certainly didn't remain intact when the Kingdoms ascended. That is when the were really "lost" if they ever existed. Which would I think mean they were indeed just absorbed. Not scattered. . yet modern Orthodox believe in it and they actually believe modern Jews are strictly descended from benjamin, Judah and simone.. which would be and is preposterous even IF the tribes actually existed, given that they all intermarried and disappeared into the Kingdoms, of which all modern Jews are descended, and all modern Samaritans in the north, supposedly. Today, lost tribe myths are ways for other people to appropriate Judaism for their own use and purpose. Like the Black Hebrew Israelites, or the Igbo in Africa, or "Bene Manasseh" from Myanmar I believe. It's extraordinarily unlikely any of these groups actually have Levantine/Israelite ancestors. They most overtly received these mythologies when they were introduced to Christianity, and like all "lost tribe" adherents, eventually adopted this lost tribe narrative to distinguish themselves and give significance to their existence in relation to other people. If everyone knew what it really meant to be "chosen", I wonder if they'd be so quick to pretend they descend from lost tribes. Not that they can't practice Judaism. I mean... whatever.. Just not a fan of the one's that tell other Jews they are fakes... Anglo Israelites and BHI mostly.
13:00 we can be very certain that unlike traditional christians of today, Matthew was 100% conscious that Isaiah was talking of something unrelated to Jesus, and WAS NEVER ATTEMPTING TO CLAIM OTHERWISE! The contemporary "relevance" he saw was that just as Isaiah was talking about the fall of hostile outsider nations with reference to a contemporary child, Matthew spoke of the ultimate eschaton (symbolic return of the church as true Israel from spiritual exile, through Jesus'salvific role) as something related to Jesus as a baby born under extraordinary circumstances.
Former calvinist fundamentalist Christian here: Dr. Joel Baden is fantastic! I would listen to him endlesly! 14:27-15:11 - Wow!!!!!!!! Есть здесь кто-то из русскоязычных подписчиков?
I'm learning Russian but still basic😊 how are things in Russia regarding the Church?? I come from a Greek orthodox background but am becoming distant for a number of reasons
ага, мне интересно с какой скоростью результаты этих исследований распространятся в русскоязычном пространстве. Этот формат Библейского учёного блогера на ютуб очень крутая. Интересно слышать критику, а не только односторонние проповеди
@@vicm5272 Nice that you are learning ) It's a tough language )) Well... While you are in Church you only see one-sided idealized version of understanding the Bible...You are basically in a filter bubble... But that's just not reality. I think internet will change the religios views of many people. No more censorship!
@@curlyangel6 труды этого учёного ещё не переведены на русский, к сожалению. А так те кто интересуется уже давно в теме. Дело в том что в России это мало кого интересует
The entire book is an "if then" proposition. Like "If the anthropomorphic incarnation of the creator exists, these are his words". And "if Noah existed then I'm a monkey's behind." That kind of thing lol. I wish we could hand out pamphlets in the orthodox Jewish community. They make people think they practice the authentic and genuine Judaism, and as a Jew, I find this offensive. Their theological ancestors, the Pharisees, weren't even the primary sect of the period. The dominant sect, were non literalist, non supernaturalists anyway. Much like the 90% of modern Jews who aren't Orthodox or Heredi. Well, something like 70% are atheists or relatively secular/reform. Something like that. Their antiquated form of religious tyranny has no place in the Israeli government, deciding on marriage and who is Jewish and who is not Jewish. That has to change. And as Jews we need to prevent any third temple from ever being erected or suddenly most will find themselves on the bottom of a reemerging social caste of Zadokite zealots. One's who repeat the same fabrications over and over, like "Being a Cohen I am the direct male descendant of Aaron." Oh yea? Even though there are over a dozen different male lineages within the Cohen population? Lineages that can greatly differ from those in the Levite population? All of which can be found in the Yisrael population? How does that work exactly? or Levites or Yisrael for that matter. "Well I come form the House of David. I can trace my ancestors back to blaah blah blah and Shlomo the great was my babysitter." Uh uh. I mean, it's not like modern Jews are still such a small population that they are all related or anything. And it's not like the ancient population was so tiny, so long ago, that every modern Jew would statistically be descended from every ancient Judean who passed on their genes in the community. Oh wait, that is the case. It would be physically impossible for that not to be the case. Statistically. If there was a Moses, if there was an Aaron, if there was a David, then all modern Jews are descended from all of them. That's what happens when "tribes", if they even existed, intermarry, in a tiny community that never reached more than a few million until the modern age. And in the biblical period we are likely talking about even smaller populations. So definitively, all modern Jews share all the same basic ancient ancestors up to a point in exile, whenever that might be. So sorry Levitical Zealots, we are all descended from Aaron and all descended from Levi and all descended from every other likely fictional son of Jacob and every other ancient priestly line. Ugh. Well, at least we don't have Christian problems. We just argue about the literal vs the symbolic, the supernatural vs the rational and the Halakha vs the no Halakha. Compared to other religions we have it easy in regard to differences under the umbrella of the faith.
So you probably don't think that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus Christ. This is a HUGE one, especially the last three verses, of the sacrifice that pleased GOD. If you don't believe in that... Wow! What can I say?
"If you don't change your ways ..." Sounds like biblical prophecy has something in common with global warming predictions. You often see people saying "Look - those predictions made in 1990 about global temperature rise didn't come true", and when you look at the model and the prediction in 1990 it had certain future emissions built in. The "prediction" led to some change in behavior and fewer emissions than assumed in the prediction.
God specifically mentions Israel coming back - and it began in 1948. He mentioned it via the Prophet Ezekiel in chapter 37 - and he mentioned it via the Prophet Jeremiah in 31 Jeremiah 31) 8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. 9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I AM A FATHER TO ISRAEL, and EPHRAIM IS MY FIRSTBORN. 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL, and with the HOUSE OF JUDAH: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which MY COVENANT THEY BRAKE, although I was an husband unto them, saith THE LORD: 33 But this shall be THE COVENANT that I WILL MAKE with THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, saith the Lord, I WILL put MY LAW in their inward parts, and write it in THEIR HEARTS; and WILL BE their God, and they shall be MY PEOPLE. 34 And they shall TEACH NO MORE every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for THEY SHALL ALL know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I WILL FORGIVE THEIR iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. [This will fulful when they have completed the 70th Week and enter into the MILLENNIAL (MESSIANIC KINGDOM) and where Isaiah 9: 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. During the Millennial / Messianic Kingdom - that is when The Lord Jesus will be called, "MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING FATHER" - this will occur. He will reign. I really believe that you are missing it. Many scholars are missing it with you. God's Word is God's Word... believe it! The enemy wants to give you doubt about God's Word; then he wants to call God a liar. It started in the Garden with the woman. The enemy is not finished yet.
I dont agree. I think the Old Testament ends with Messianic expectation. Meaning the birth place of the Messiah, his family line and even his Kingship were expected by Jews. The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem is this a reinterpretation or did the jews expect this before the Jesus comes into the scene.
The central message of the Old Testament, read honestly and objectively, is the establishment of a Jewish temple state in Jerusalem. But after the destruction of that temple in 70 AD, the new upstart, Christian religion was able to hijack the Hebrew Scriptures and reinterpret them as a foreshadowing of a messianic saviour figure. A reinvention that was almost universally rejected by contemporary Judaism. Only a tiny minority accepted it, which is why Christianity became a Gentile religion.
He is right, the entire Bible isn't divine, even in Hebrew. One verse in Hebrew says Ahaziah was 22 when he began to reign and another verse in another book says he was 42 when began to reign. So to get the truth of this matter, you must study other passages that describe chronological orders. He was really 22 when he began to reign if you research further. One Verse says Abraham called the place of the alter YaHUaH Yirah and another verse says Abraham didn't know the Name YaHUaH but Elohim. How dies he come with Deuteronomy 28 came about in Assyria Empire era?
Here's this 20 year difference again. Do you know the significance. Or chronologically why. Does it have to do with when the Gentile Times End. Was it 1914 or 1934. Or Both. So the prophet Elijah would arrive 20 years early.
@@strappedfatman7858 It is a copyist error, maybe the parchment wore out and couldn't make it out as 22 but wrote 42 which is an error. He was 22 when he began to reign. The error is in every Tanach we have today.
Here's my professional help. Lol I'm sitting here listening to Rush 2112 and watching Star Trek. So who changed the stardate. Or is 2012 the end of the age and Jesus shows up in 18 years from the stardate 2012. But after the Guardian of the four corners of the Earth is ruling the world. Who changed the stardate of our calendar. After Jesus is born King. He shows up in Jerusalem at 12 years old. Then he shows at age 30. Then Jerusalem is destroyed in 70 AD. The Magi knew when Jesus was born as King. Did they use the 13th constellation. When I look at ancient Sumerian pictures of the solar system and planets. Or is it the morning star. The same star a person puts over a Christmas tree. Why did the Pharisees think Jesus was almost 50 years old. Who reset our calendar so Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. Our calendar was reset and counted backwards. Was it reset by 20 years to have Jesus show up at 12 years old and age 30.
Although you two may not care of believe in the twelve tribes, God does. The Prophets Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel (9:24-27), and Zechariah... just read and understand - and ask God to help. James addresses the twelve tribes in verse 1... 1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to THE TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Religion and politics rule the world. All should be deleted and dismissed From the psychic mind and soul. Why can't man say I Love You. We are the human race.
Deuteronomy follows the 20 days by chapter starting with Batz, but do not expect academia to know things like that. it is a horrible book, that looks like 30 people took turns changing, but the bones are there. Chapter 14 is Kat - What do we have to eat ? The structure shows intention and level of understanding. the intention was strong, the latter was not.
3:00 if only sceptics would learn this from Baden: biblical prophesy was rarely ever intended to predict the future even if it states some potentially future event. It was never a point of theological embarrassment when the statements of what would happen the future never "came through"
The belief in literal fulfillments (pertaining to a character named Jesus)is the bedrock upon which Christianity rests. It’s the view that has been promoted for over two millennia. So the ones who need to learn are the Christians, not the skeptics.
@@skepticus5705 what you say about 2 millenia is simply wrong. If the authors of the old testament books & presumably 2nd Temple Jews understood this about prophecy, the best you can say is about 1 millenium plus (for the idea that every assertion in an old testament prophetic book would have been a source of theological "embarrassment" if it did not play out). Even with the example of Ezekiel's prediction of Tyre's destruction it's clear that Ezekiel himself never saw anything wrong with the fact that Babylon didn't conquer Tyre as originally predicted. He casually went on to provisionally assume that Babylon would conquer Egypt as compensation
@@tsemayekekema2918 Yes, I know there was a type of Hebrew prophecy known as Protest Literature which was intended to instigate social reform by promising future punishments. That all changed when Christianity came onto the scene. This upstart religion hijacked the Hebrew Scriptures and recast them as the Christian Old Testament with a completely new spin: It was all a prophetic foreshadowing of the coming Messiah. And so "real historic events" in the New Testament were presented as actual fulfillments of "real" Old Testament prophecies. It's a form of circular reasoning that demonstrates how important actual prophetic fulfillment was to the early Christians...to the point where they simply invented it As for Ezekiel, his prophecy re Tyre was a failed prediction. Whenever something like that happens you can pretty much guarantee it will be followed by some type of spin doctoring in order to save face.
Dumbest argument I've ever heard. Completely, the opposite of organized religion. Let me guess, your church is the true church and only you knows the real truth?... religious are so pompous.
X-Files Question. Why are the evangelical counting corpses using the bible as a springboard to perform somersaults to do the exact opposite of "love their neighbors" and "treat others like they want to be treated"? Answer. This is sick. Because these simple concepts are too far out there to grasp for vampires (greed).
The Bible is not divine eh? Facts about the book of Daniel which in the sixth century B.C. , accurately predicted three major world empires, showing that it was divinely inspired . #1 Daniel was the author ....in many places is the repeated statement "I Daniel". #2 It was not written in the first century B.C. as those who try to disprove it's accuracy , because: a) A fragment of it was found in the Dead Sea scrolls which date before the second century B.C. b) There are five chapters of Daniel in the kind and style of formal Aramaic that dates it to the sixth century B.C. c) the measurements of Nebuchadnezzer's golden statue were based on the number "six" as in " 60 cubits high and six cubits wide"...the numerical system of the sixth century B.C. was based on the number "six" until it was replaced by the number "10" by the Greeks. Every WORD in Daniel about the Medo-Persian empire, the Greek empire and the Roman empire was proven TRUE before any of them existed. Not divine eh? Good Luck with that!
I see Professor Joel Baden as a reputable man since his introduction to me. I see his explanations as accurate and we'll thought and researched. But why do people believe these things when there's so much discrepancy in them? They are told what to believe cuz it's too much work to find out for yourself, unlike me!
Science explains some of the physics and very little of the metaphysical realm as dark energy/matter , they also claim self creation and upside down thermodynamics as their science migrates into their own religion .It is not at all about science ,it is only religion vs religion and lots of false claims in between .If you want to find truth keep the basics straight ,intelligence will eventually lead you to more intelligence .
@@obiecanobie919 Science doesn't say anything about the metaphysical realm at all. Dark energy/matter are just as physical as water or earth, and you would know that if you had taken elementary astronomy. No one claims self-creation and no one is using weird thermodynamics, which I am sure you don't even understand by the looks of it. No one is making science into a religion, and human intelligence/intuition is frequently flawed and a bad way of examining the world. Amazingly, everything you said is wrong
@@TheGemar14 Science without the help of metaphysics cannot tell what is possible unless science become metaphysics . Your condition hasn't changed much in the last 5000 years ,science hasn't changed much in a way of happiness ,the way of life ,how long we live and the rational of life ,in many cases it made it worse ,empty promises for naïve ears .
@@obiecanobie919 Actually, science has no need for metaphysics to discover what's possible. The human condition has greatly changed over the past 5000 years, I don't know what you're on about. Were it not for Einstein's special relativity, no one would know that it is impossible to exceed the speed of light. Why didn't your metaphysicians predict that impossibility? Science wasn't designed to make people happy, not sure why you mentioned happiness. Science has absolutely changed the way we live and our lifespan. Our lifespans are generally longer due to modern medicine and you cannot be seriously suggesting that we live exactly like people thousands of years ago. All you've offered is philosophical babble that makes it seem like you're the naïve one
I’m glad 1st Corinthians chapter 9 got brought up, specifically: verse 9: ‘For the law of Moses says, “You must not muzzle an ox to keep it from eating as it treads out the grain.” Was God thinking only about oxen when he said this?’ (New Living Translation) In fact, for the first 18 verses of this chapter, Paul is almost saying- I do and do and do for you people, and these are the thanks that I get! He doesn’t quite say this. But he kind of does! 🏔 🚴🏽♂️
Forwarning of punishment if people don't change their ways is one thing, but prophesying about future events regardless of a change in behavior is another. E.g., all the prophesies in Revelation do not warn the world with 'change your behavior or such and such will happen'. It just states that it will happen.
Revelation is apocalyptic literature much like Daniel, Enoch, the Apocalypse of Peter, etc. Apocalyptic literature has never made predictions about some far off future. So, no, none of the things in Revelation are actually about the future. They are symbols of the political realities during the author's own time, from the whore of Babylon representing Rome, to 666/616 being code for Nero in the Hebrew numbering system
@@TheGemar14 "...political realities during the author's own time.." If that was the case then Christ would be reigning and there would be none of the evil that is going on now. We haven't seen the last day yet, or the new heavens and the new earth - there would be an end to the line of temporal 'beasts'/kingdoms/political systems spoken about in Daniel and Revelation, there would be no more pagan Papacy and Christ's eternal kingdom of righteousness would be now, but it obviously is not. So there are still things spoken about the last days that have not yet happened, which means you are wrong - Revelation and Daniel are prophetic. I would say we are at about the "feet of iron mixed with clay" stage (Daniel 2).
@@henryschmit3340 You are absolutely wrong. The reason Christ is not reigning on earth, that none of it came true because...the author was wrong about everything. There is no kingdom, there is no antichrist or tribulation or prophecy. He was wrong just like all the rest of the Bible's authors. Sorry to disappoint with reality. Even Christians like Augustine in the middle ages started to view Revelation as symbolic. Your literal view of Revelation is anachronistic and a fringe view in Christianity among crazy evangelicals which makes no sense.
@@TheGemar14 I am very impressed with your ignorance. You are still wrong. Both Daniel and Revelation specifically talk about the "last days" and all the various 'beasts'/kingdoms/political systems that would follow one after the other, until the final Judgment by Jesus Christ. As simple as it is, and as clearly as it is explained in both Daniel and Revelation, you don't understand the prophetic (symbolic) language being used in both of those books - the interpretation of the symbolic language being given in the very same books of Daniel and Revelation. You would have to be blind not to see it. Since you have no idea what is being conveyed in these scriptures, then I will take the Bible's word over yours.
Let me correct what Joel is saying about early followers. What they believed that there was a law-giver that gave god’s law and that later writers came along and altered the law. So this original is what they believed they were following. So, for instance, when a law gave men the authority to only sacrifice the animals at the temple, the Evyon believe this was an adjustment over time because men insisted on giving sacrifices to god. The Evyon believed that immersion was a satisfactory replacement to killing animals. In addition, Yeshua was a dichotomous figure, saying one thing to satisfy the “righteous” in public, and another thing to his inner circle that explains his “parables” in private. We often do not know what the private meaning is clearly. It is however clear that Yeshua was not about taking slaves or concubines, rather forgiving debt and sins. So one has to be careful about the intent. Yeshua knows they know the Torah and the prophets, but he is drawing for certain aspects more or less like this ‘You know that X told you to do Y, but I tell you that ‘Y’ is not enough, X told you this because he knew you were weak in spirit, if you want to be ‘pure’ in the view of god you must also do Z. Is it not said . . . .. Lol, Derek, the twelve tribes in Christian theology, you really threw Joel out on a limb.
These prophets spoke as were inspired by God. If Isaiah said, "Thus saith The Lord..." then it comes from The Lord. To change it and to break meaning. You seem to be TOO SMART for God's WORD. Apparently you cannot understand that a prophecy could be for the current time AND something for the future as well. When the daughter of Pharaoh named the Hebrew child, 'Moses' (drawn out) - God used Moses to draw out Israel from Egypt. While in the wilderness when Israel was drawn out of Egypt - most of the Israelites could not get 'Egypt' out of 'Israel'. With the church (called out) - by Christ Jesus, the people were 'CALLED OUT' of the world to be a people separate from the world. And at the time of Moses' birth, Pharaoh commanded the mid-wives to slay all the males born. In the time of Herod when Joseph took baby Jesus to Egypt, Herod commanded all the infants and babies (2 year old's and younger) to be slain (it may have been males only, but) - see the pattern? To say that 'The Bible' is not divine could be true in a sense: these are just books written by man, and copies were made. I could say that THAT may not necessarily be divine. In 'The Bible' is 'The Word of God'. When God inspired his prophets to speak or write... that was DIVINE. I'm not talking about false prophets, I am talking about the prophets of THE LORD.
I believe Mr Baden can do better than that. There are other OT theologians that do so much better when it comes to biblical interpretation. BTW we know that prophets are poets and the message is presented as "Thus says the Lord". Please do more than just dwell on the periphery of the stories.
@@jefffloyd9671 Oh here we go clarifying Mr. Baden credentials and even a suggestion. Well Mr. Baden is a historian with a PHD in Hebrew Bible Studies and a M.A Northwest Semitics and even further his undergrad work was on Judaic Studies at Yale. None of that can be achieved without theological training.
@@jefffloyd9671 I suppose it is the concentration of work mainly historical scholars study archeology, history, biblical literature and so on. IMHO what happens with biblical scholars is that it is exceedingly difficult to specialize in this field avoiding training in theological studies. You are right there is a difference between historical scholars and theologians but for Christians, Jews (perhaps Muslims not sure) the theological training is extensive even if they just concentrate their work on historical criticism such as Mr. Baden. They become repetitive and often have little to add to the conversation unless if they present biblical arguments within its historical and theological context. I encourage you to read Stanley Hauerwas more of a theologian than a historian but his take on moral ethics, the role of liberalism in a democratic society etc. and his theological insights in my opinion are extremely beneficial. I'm no longer interested in spending time trying to decipher the limited historical accounts of the Scriptures. We already know that most of the stories in the Scriptures are not historical accounts..Ok fine but the work on the ground remains to be done isn't it? The rat race of selling books and presenting seminars-webinars. The forces of free market capitalism are attempting to intoxicate biblical scholarship LOL. Although important I moved on to what I deemed to be a more functional pursue of the text and biblical-church tradition.
The Bible was written by humans. Some of it contains great wisdom, some of it is mental trash. With all due respect, you don't need a scholar to know this. The word of god is within you! Ye are the living scriptures! Ye are the temple! That said, great reads are the Bible, the Dao De Jing, the Baghavad Gita and certain writings of the Gnostics in the Naghammadi Library.
I believe the word you're looking for in this talk is going to be repurpose, that appears to be what you're talkin about through the whole 30 minute video, a lot of repurpose a scripture
Of course, Isaiah married that woman and then she gave birth ... way to nail your prophecy, Issy! (and so, theologians, at least wannabe theologies of a certain stripe, work them for all they are worth as if they are archetypal)
A failed prophecy is a successful prophecy, well that's convenient. So prophecies are unfalsifiable? It succeeds if it is true or false. That is the best bs get out clause ever. I didn't make something up, you avoided it or you didn't interpret it correctly.
Think of it like driving in traffic. Your successful predictions of other drivers' actions result in a safe journey. At the end of the drive there is no way of validating the predictions you made. However, when your predictions fail there can be death and destruction.
I think the point Joel was making was this: you should view prophecies not as some sort of mystical account of the future, but as exhortations to people living at the time. Same way you have adults saying to children: if you smoke, you will get lung cancer. Nothing supernatural about the prophecies
There was a text writen that within it had a code and this code will be a key to life. The academic looked at the text and could not see the parable writen within it. He took it literally. He told the world there was no deep meaning because he could not see the deeper meaning of the text. The mention of the two peoples is a huge clue. The North followed there own train of thought on what God wanted. The south followed what God wanted and when they faltered they payed a price. Its like a parable from Jesus. You have to look at the story symbolically. The Tora is saying symbolically telling us how we got into a mess and how to get out of it. It uses real life to explain it and God knows we are unlikley to follow the plan. Hence life repeats itself in cycles. One day the world will come together and say Ahh, got it and work together.
@@TheGemar14 The Torah was written for everyone to read. At the end of Tora it describes how Moses will be buried insight but no one will see his grave. Life is a choice. You choose to see or not. Good luck.
@@marksingleton7199 The Torah was written for the Jews more or less during exile and depicts a very capricious, human god with human emotions not unlike the gods of the Greeks
@@TheGemar14 The Torah shows the purpose of creation. The seperation causes the purpose to falter. God circumvents the problem but needs to correct what is happening on Earth. Mankind follows his own path which is life and death. Eventually life here will end through disaster or the sun changing.
@@marksingleton7199 Prove that God exists and wrote the Torah, then we can talk. And I'm not interested in philosophical or theological arguments which don't mean anything. Reproducible Experiments that clearly demonstrate a god exists
70 years and 70 x 7 are two DIFFERENT things not reshaping a narrative smh! So in other words, if your interpretation doesn't fit what history records actually happens, then the Bible and not your interpretation is wrong?? Okay...
@@DidymusBenYahweh Except it didn't. I don't know what you're talking about. The book of Daniel clearly talks about Antiochus Epiphanes as the ultimate evil since it was written by a guy living during his reign. The prediction that at the end of the 490 years Antiochus would be killed in Israel totally failed.
@@TheGemar14 has absolutely nothing to do with Antiochus and everything to do with Messiah Yeshua. Maybe that's why you don't see it. You don't understand who the main focus of the 70 weeks prophesy is about.
Neville Goddard was correct about Imagination being God in man, outside churches are made with hands for sons of man (first adam) looking and waiting for what's in them Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, w)hen the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (second Adam) wakes in you not seen by Saul looking outside before he became Paul who woke inside himself. Typical theology is with nothing new under the sun that's repeated. You just don't know who you are yet.
It sounds like he is redefining prophecy. Also these prophets said this and that will happen not might happen. It sounds like an apologetic argument to explain another failure of the Bible.
what is your goal here? are you trying to bring Christians to atheism? i used to be in and out of jail and a heroin addict for years and years the only thing that saved me was the bible and learning more about my Christian faith and you wanting to take that away from people is just so lame.
@@skepticus5705 thats twisted logic. Furst of all no one has the absolute truth, thats why its called faith. Jesus tought to love your neighbore be good to others and love one another that is yhe core belief in christianity, to turn people away from that is not a benefit. I would have killed myself if my cellmate didnt hand me the bible and studied it with me, thank god for that.
@@papinbala The Bible also teaches that unbelievers will burn in hell. How many people throughout history have suffered needless mental torment because of that belief? So turning away from Christianity will definitely benefit them, without giving up any of the positive things, which are also taught by other religions as well as atheistic secular humanism. And the truth of the Bible that I am referring to is that it reads exactly as it should if it was written by a primitive iron-age culture.
@@skepticus5705 yes it teaches that if you turn away from God that you will burn in hell but no one is torturing you are they? for you its just fantasy right? so why do you even care? the bible doesn't teach Christians to inflict any kind harm on anybody, you are complaining about something that happens after death? really? that's your issue? so let me get this straight it is beneficial for people to turn away from Christianity because people who dont believe in god will go to hell after they die? lol WHAT? you make no sense at all. sorry buddy but NO
@@papinbala I care because it’s morally repugnant to me to threaten people with torture for not believing as you do. It’s a sick, sadistic fantasy that unfortunately many have been convinced is real. But it’s not, and understanding that is enormously beneficial to everyone, including you. As for the Bible teaching Christians not to harm others…I burst out laughing when I read that. Regardless of what they’ve been taught Christians have been slaughtering and persecuting in the name of their loving Jesus ever since they gained political power in the 4th century.
He doesn't know what he is talking about the 10 tribes. They spread over the Caucasion mountains, over the Black sea and spreas over Europa. There they started knowing !s the gentiles that Paul was talking about, not because they were "lost" but they forgot whonthey were, though still ascendants of Abraham. If you don't know what happened dont confuse the rest.
When you say "the bible is not divine" you implicitly admit that the divine exists, but the bible is incompatible with divine work. Otherwise, if the divine is not, then how the bible could be not divine, and why would you say that? But you claim that you know how a divine work should be done and look like. You know better that God how would and should communicate a message in and through hystory, or to certain people in certain times, and how God works. You think that God should do that according to your standards and understanding; human, limited, imperfect personal standards and understanding. And, if He's not doing so, He's not doing good and is not God. But you're not God, and don't have divine knowledge, not even close, so you don't know how would God want to inspire his intentions. Even Joel points to the broader meanings that the bible texts can have and it was given by the very traditional rabbis and commentators. And, maybe, that's precisely how a divine scripture should be and why the bible is so: with different and complex lines and levels of understanding and interpretation. Like the typological pattern of sacrifice and offering pointing to Christ. It is not a book or a guide simply and only intending to deliver and perform prophecies, but, first of all, to educate and discipline and, ultimately, to deliver humanity and the world from their corruption and from death. But Jesus Christ was divine and He read from the OT the Isaiah passage about Him. And He quotes many other passages, so He accepts the OT as divine, and later, through His Church, he delivers and completes it with the NT. And Christ is a higher authority on the scriptures than any other human being, by the miracles and the resurrection He performed. The bible is a book pointing towards Christ, and that's divine. So, Christianity is not even about the bible, it is about Christ and his Church. It is Christ, the Church(his body) and then the bible. The bible is about Christianity, not the other way around. 13:00 Joel and the claim that Isaiah 53 "is [not] speaking about Jesus". No, he is not speaking about the person Jesus of Nazareth, but he speaks about the Christ, and Jesus happened to be the Christ and to fulfill that prophecy. 15:40 Dereck is twisting the bible, not Paul. Paul does not say in 1 cor 9.9,10 that "don't tie the mouth of the ox when he is threshing" refers to "him", but to "us", the apostles, the workers of the Church. He doesn't say that that verse is a prophecy about him, but that it applies to them, the apostles. Again, that's an example of how the bible have a broader meaning, both literal and metaphorical, and how it can be read in different ways and can reffer to and explain different aspects without contradicting, but completing each others. And that's another way of Paul showing that the old law points to Christ and to His Church.
@@willydakid6596 only if there are real contradictions, not apparent ones at a superficial look. And to see the completeness is to undress it from the apparent contradictions.
This sleigh is not Santa Clause's. Is this an admission Santa Clause exists? It is safe to say this reindeer does not fly is not an admission of flying reindeer.
@@reluctantheist5224 that's a different thing, because, like I've already argued, the claim that the bible is not divine is based on the presupposition that one knows how a divine work should be, and comparing between the bible and one's own natural intuition of the divinity. So, yes, it's a subtle issue. It's not that, unlike Santa or unicorns, God is logically inconsistent based on our understanding and reasoning, but, by the contrary, that God is the standard for any consistency we claim, logical, moral of of any kind.
@@viravirakti it is based on what human reasoning can deduce since human reasoning is all humans have. If the book appears to be the same as all the other claimed divine books, that is, nothing out of the ordinary then we must deduce it is ordinary like the other claims. We can, at the very least, say it is ordinary and builds on previous traditions and stories of the time.
Christianity has dominated the West for a very long time now, and if it was such an uplifting, divinely inspired, life-changing revelation then shouldn’t the ills of society such as poverty, crime and war have been eliminated, or greatly reduced, in the areas where the majority of the population practiced this faith?Doesn’t the fact that it was “business as usual” during its reign suggest that Christianity is actually meaningless to those who profess to believe in it?
Yeshua bar Yusuf (Jesus) preached a prophecy about an apocalypse that never happened. Your appeal to Jesus fits exactly into what Dr Baden is describing.
Jesus was a failed end times preacher and deluded cult leader. He was preaching the end of the world would come before some of his followers died. Didn't happen. It's Hebrew mythology.
The Bible is a plagiarized, summarized retelling of much older Sumerian text. The Romans created Christianity, omitted many books and perverted the original teaching of Yeshua. Anyone written about the Bible did not write anything in the Bible.
Dr. Baden is by far my favorite Hebrew Bible scholar. I've listened to quite a few but he's the most analytical by far and shares the most provocative ideas on it as a whole.
I liked his point about Judah's mindset on the so-called lost tribes. I think a lot of people forget that when Israel was wiped out by Assyria... Judah was on Assyria's side! Israel tried to strong-arm Judah into a war they wanted no part of, and Judah turned to Assyria for help. Not to mention Judah spent about half of the 8th century as a vassal to Israel, paying them taxes and being forced to aid them in war. Most of Judah wasn't pining for the restoration of Israel as a separate nation.
Brilliant
That's all true, but Dr. Baden doesn't mention the very important fact that much of Israel's population, far from being lost, came to Judah after their kingdom fell in 722 BCE. Those ten tribes were a huge presence in Judah itself from that point on and their texts got heavily incorporated into the Bible, albeit with Judah's ideas always getting somewhat the upper hand, due to the strange reality of a small kingdom absorbing the population of a previously much larger and more powerful one. When you consider this fundamental fact, the whole issue appears rather different from what he's saying.
Until recently I sat under a huge, national ANGLO/ISRAEL MINISTRY telling us for twenty years the blessing and curses of Deuteronomy 27-28 are for those of adamic, Israel TODAY AND STILL BINDING. I give up. I feel like throwing the entire book away. I studied it 13 years now and it's not adding up
what is not adding up - the bible is true - Bader is a ignorant person and no scholar, a scholar has truth
How are you doing, a couple of years later?
Very interesting. Do have many questions for Joel Baden.
Would be great to have a live episode with him soon.
Important work here. Bravo to both of you. Christians need to understand this.
@Mill Mount Bill, thank you for your admonishment. Yes, Jews, Hebrews, and anyone else that actually thinks the Bible is completely legit.
“Hi, I’m not living in the eschaton” was hilarious. Absolutely loved this video
I think one could draw a parallel to Humanity’s behavior today, and how today’s public figures profess or declare ideas relative to current events. People are still manipulating information to make it conform to their own purposes and to even greater effect, due to the reach media has today.
Good gravy!!!! I always call out Jonah as the best prophet in the OT because he actually caused a change! And then Joel here says the same damn thing I always say! Love it.
the bible is God's word - don't let the devil fool you through ignorant teachers
@@DavidKing-qd3sp I do find it fascinating the reliance on a devil when the word itself should be enough. To be honest the bible is far more clear when studied historically in the context of when they were written. In it's cultural context. While I realize that what is found doesn't quite fit the mold modern theology has wrapped it in that doesn't bother me one bit. Does it bother you?
@@Vina_Ravyn ..........Iit bothers me when people attempt to destroy the faith of others...Joel is a empty man spiritually and will one day give an account to God...but glad to see you are a believer
@@DavidKing-qd3sp Wrong. I am not a believer but I do wonder why believers have such a fragile view of their faith that a little knowledge would topple it. If your deal is true all the Joel Badens of the world wouldn't matter squat.
@@Vina_Ravyn .........To quote you --It matters "squat" to me as to what he says because I know he has spiritual and intellectual problems...and I am confident in what I believe.
But when I see him destroy the faith of others in the bible and God then it matters to me. So, when you say our faith is toppled by a little knowledge - it is not knowledge but pure "ignorance" which the uneducated believe to be knowledge...so that is my issue.
If you fail to believe in scripture and God - there is no future for you after death - just annihilation as there is no hell. So, I would encourage you to read the bible....as for Joel....he does not know or comprehend truth and spends his time tearing it down -because damaged minds are attracted to the negative and have nothing positive to contribute to spiritual truth....as we say in theological circles - a pawn of the devil
Joel, you make a great point. Prophets borrow from each other. Matthew and Luke borrow from Mark.
I recommend you listen to Ralph Ellis' interviews. He says what I already know, Christianity is Paul's movement. It has nothing to do with Jesus. If you simply compare Jesus' message with Paul's, the incompatible is salient and stark.
Joel Baden is just a great scholar, could listen to him for hours on end...
...kidding right...he speaks like a 6th grader nervously giving a book report...
@@dericanslum1696 Yes I didn't quite mean the delivery, rather the expertise and deep knowledge of the material from a pretty objective secular Jewish perspective we don't hear very often.
@@DonVoghano Too painful to listen to.
@@dericanslum1696
I love when scholars break things done as if they are explaining to a five year old. That's how all that good work which scholars have done will reach a wider audience of non-scholar everyday people and break the stranglehold which the Bible has had over people for years.
@@dericanslum1696
I found him so difficult to listen to with the constant repetition of the word ‘like’ it drove me crazy
I understand it’s a habit he’s probably not aware of but ….!!!!
The ads for Jesus that pop up in your videos crack me up. As if seeing a reenactment of a fairytale is going to change my beliefs. Yes, when I watch Cinderella I always believe it is a true story.😂
I wish I had a penny for every lie that!s been told in the name of god.. Little g
The bible is a plagairized symbolic references to a celestial story with conveniently added "Chosen" people..
2220
❤💯
What verse shows 1st Isaiah prophesying that the eschaton would come after the exile?
I love this guy. He helped to set me free from the last bit of propaganda programing
Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away.
Jesus supposedly said that he was sent "only"to the lost tribes of the house of Israel.That being the case,he failed miserably.He didn't even unite the different factions in Judah/Jerusalem,let alone Israel..He said he came to turn family members against each other-no peace in sight.Even today the nation of Israel 's individuals refers to themselves as "Jews"(from Judah),but calls their nation "Israel." There's something wrong with this whole picture.
He came to the lost “sheep” not “tribes”
There are over 900 direct contradictions in the Bible ,you will go nutty trying to figure it out .
@@interman7715 You are right about Yod Hay Waw Shin Waw Ayin(YaHuWSHuWa). A somali offered me a koran and I told him I have the truth in my heart and rejected his offer. So he said " I told you what I believe, so you tell me what you believe." And I told him about The Father YaHuWaH and Son, YaHuSHuWa and when he repeated YaHuSHuWa, we heard a loud ovation and he even said it was angels and we saw a horizontal rainbow and a cardinal was flying across it and we both said it was a miracle. But he is still muslim. Even though the LOUD CLAPPING OVATION happened when the muslim somali said YaHuWSHuWa.
No one was around us when the loud ovation happened and he was looking behind me and I was looking behind him to see where the ovation came from because the sound of the ovation surrounded us and my heart was pounding in fear like what just happened?
No matter how much I've stalled THE INEVITABLE FUTURE TIMELINE, THE INEVITABLE FUTURE TIMELINE will come into fruition.
1. The sick children will be healed with utterrance of THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, YAHUWSHUWA.
2. The heavens will open on Earth for all to witness as the angels will commune with the healed children as the children heal the sick and feed the poor in THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, YAHUWSHUWA.
3. The multitudes all over the world will learn of YAHUWSHUWA. As that is the true Good News that will be preached and demonstrated for them to witness.
4. AT THAT POINT THOSE MULTITUDES OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO CALLED UNTO YAHUWSHUWA TO FEED THE POOR AND HEAL THE SICK WILL KNOW THEY WILL NEVER DIE OR BE HURT DURING TRIBULATION.
5. THOSE HUMAN MULTITUDES WILL LOVE EVERYONE, EVEN THOSE WHO HATE THEM BECAUSE YAHUWSHUWA TAUGHT THEM THAT HIGHEST LEVEL OF LOVE WILL SHOW THAT YOU HAVE ARE SINCERE WHEN YOU CALL OUT TO YAHUWSHUWA. YOU WILL HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND REALISE YOUR EXISTENCE WILL BE LOVE AND PARADISE.
6. THE ANGELS WILL SEPARATE THOSE WITH HATE IN THEIR HEARTS AND INTENTIONS OF VIOLENCE. AS THOSE WHO CALL UNTO YAHUWSHUWA WILL NEVER DO VIOLENCE EVER. SO THOSE WHO CHOSE TO FIGHT WILL BE DOING SIN.
7.THANKFULLY EARTH WILL BE CHANGED TO HEAVEN EVEN BEFORE THAT PROCESS, WE WILL BE WAITING AS OUR BODY PERMEATES WITH THE BEST FEELING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING WITHIN US.
I FORGOT TO MENTION PEOPLE WILL BE RAISED FROM THE DEAD IN YAHUWSHUWA'S NAME AS THE SICK IS HEALED AND POOR BEING FED HAPPENS.
Re: He made the ILLUminati an ofFer thEy Could not refusE!!
Quoting: AlphabetA "They can certainly refuse, but refusal will result in falling forever down the deepest depths of this hell we're all stuck in.. So, why not just help everyone out of here, with everyones help?"
"Love those who hate you and persecute you." -YAHUWSHUWA
"Forgive them. They know not what they do." -YAHUWSHUWA
"None is good but The Father(YAHUWAH)" -YAHUWSHUWA
"“Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword." -YAHUWSHUWA
"Those who understand WILL NOT TASTE HARM OR DEATH." -YAHUWSHUWA
"The man aged in days will not hesitate to ask a little child of seven days about the place of life, and he shall live; for there are many first who shall be last, and they will become a single one." -YAHUWSHUWA
The final tribulation will be conquered not by violence, but by FEEDING THE POOR AND HEALING THOSE WHO ARE SICK AND RESSURECTING THE DEAD IN YAHUWSHUWA'S NAME
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. -YAHUWSHUWA.
Amen.
Any nation expelled for more than 200 years vanished / morphed into a different nation ,Jews are back after 2000 years as prophesied ,it is not only about the coming back part ,it was also prophesied that they will spread throughout all nations ,not moved to one different place ,not destroyed ,nothing else , two prophecies completely fulfilled to the very detail . Look for the rebuilding of the Temple next ,it will be intense ,read prophecies !
you deeply misunderstand scripture in its context
Space debris speeding through the sky and causing destruction is anthropomorphized into wrath from supposed inequities.
🤔🤔🤔
@@mythoughtsonreligion7763 - Three ambiguous emojis?
I think that most of these would still count as false prophecies. For example, what is the likelihood that pharaoh read the prophecies from Ezekiel (29-32) and Jeremiah, and was so concerned that the god of Israel would completely destroy and exile his country, and therefore he changed his ways?
Agreed. There are several significant and highly specific prophecies in the bible that foretold destruction and eternal wastelands for the enemies of the Israelites, which failed miserably.
Egypt, Tyre and Babylon were all supposed to be totally destroyed and abandoned forever, but two are still active, viable nations or cities today and Babylon is an often-visited tourist attraction.
So much for bible prophecies which were supposed to cause people to "change their behavior ".
20:13 ff Unless I'm misunderstanding what he saying, he's simply mistaken. This notion of Judah and Israel reuniting is imagined by multiple prophets of Judah. Ezekiel 37 15-20 is about the two sticks reuniting. Isaiah 11 12-14 discusses this as well. Both passages mention Joseph and/or Ephraim, which I'm almost certain refers to the northern kingdom Israel. Also see Dan 9 7, mentioning Judah and Israel both being scattered. (This was written in the year 165 BC!) Also see Jer 30 10, Zech 10:6 ff, and many others.
@MythVision Podcast, if you interview Dr Baden again, can you ask him to clarify his claim that no one would be interested in reuniting the two kingdoms, based on the above passages?
You are spot on here. He got off lightly here as you say perhaps next time. He appears not to be way triggered by Hosea or Ezekiel.
@@growlings9238 I too thought immediately of Ezekiel chapter 37. Moreover, Ezekiel is expressing his concern over 100 years after the Assyrian conquest.
The problem with Baden like most historians, archaeologists etc. is they base their understanding on data. This changes every single day and therefore their opinions must also change. Usually later than it should be. He stated in a video on this same channel that Israel were essentially Canaanites who appeared during the late bronze age collapse which we know was between 1200-1150 B.C. The Mereneptah stele mentions Israel. That stele was erected approximately 1208 B.C. Before the collapse. The only reason an Egyptian king would even remotely mention them is if they were already a threatening larger collective of peoples which means they were established in Canaan well before 1208.
Just be good people. If you're not -then eventually somehow -you will have to reckon someway for what you do wrong. It goes around somehow sometime. By someone else, yourself, and god.
How do know that?
@@miller2675 Don't trust your own feelings ,follow good examples throughout their life ,follow what works well .
This is total Joseph Cambell stuff. The Power of Myth is re-interpretation to make it relevant. No god needed.
Isaiah was never about Jesus.but Chrstians had to find something to prophecise the coming of Jesus. Fake news. This was a great video.
You are right about Yod Hay Waw Shin Waw Ayin(YaHuWSHuWa). A somali offered me a koran and I told him I have the truth in my heart and rejected his offer. So he said " I told you what I believe, so you tell me what you believe." And I told him about The Father YaHuWaH and Son, YaHuSHuWa and when he repeated YaHuSHuWa, we heard a loud ovation and he even said it was angels and we saw a horizontal rainbow and a cardinal was flying across it and we both said it was a miracle. But he is still muslim. Even though the LOUD CLAPPING OVATION happened when the muslim somali said YaHuWSHuWa.
No one was around us when the loud ovation happened and he was looking behind me and I was looking behind him to see where the ovation came from because the sound of the ovation surrounded us and my heart was pounding in fear like what just happened?
No matter how much I've stalled THE INEVITABLE FUTURE TIMELINE, THE INEVITABLE FUTURE TIMELINE will come into fruition.
1. The sick children will be healed with utterrance of THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, YAHUWSHUWA.
2. The heavens will open on Earth for all to witness as the angels will commune with the healed children as the children heal the sick and feed the poor in THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, YAHUWSHUWA.
3. The multitudes all over the world will learn of YAHUWSHUWA. As that is the true Good News that will be preached and demonstrated for them to witness.
4. AT THAT POINT THOSE MULTITUDES OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO CALLED UNTO YAHUWSHUWA TO FEED THE POOR AND HEAL THE SICK WILL KNOW THEY WILL NEVER DIE OR BE HURT DURING TRIBULATION.
5. THOSE HUMAN MULTITUDES WILL LOVE EVERYONE, EVEN THOSE WHO HATE THEM BECAUSE YAHUWSHUWA TAUGHT THEM THAT HIGHEST LEVEL OF LOVE WILL SHOW THAT YOU HAVE ARE SINCERE WHEN YOU CALL OUT TO YAHUWSHUWA. YOU WILL HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND REALISE YOUR EXISTENCE WILL BE LOVE AND PARADISE.
6. THE ANGELS WILL SEPARATE THOSE WITH HATE IN THEIR HEARTS AND INTENTIONS OF VIOLENCE. AS THOSE WHO CALL UNTO YAHUWSHUWA WILL NEVER DO VIOLENCE EVER. SO THOSE WHO CHOSE TO FIGHT WILL BE DOING SIN.
7.THANKFULLY EARTH WILL BE CHANGED TO HEAVEN EVEN BEFORE THAT PROCESS, WE WILL BE WAITING AS OUR BODY PERMEATES WITH THE BEST FEELING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING WITHIN US.
I FORGOT TO MENTION PEOPLE WILL BE RAISED FROM THE DEAD IN YAHUWSHUWA'S NAME AS THE SICK IS HEALED AND POOR BEING FED HAPPENS.
Re: He made the ILLUminati an ofFer thEy Could not refusE!!
Quoting: AlphabetA "They can certainly refuse, but refusal will result in falling forever down the deepest depths of this hell we're all stuck in.. So, why not just help everyone out of here, with everyones help?"
"Love those who hate you and persecute you." -YAHUWSHUWA
"Forgive them. They know not what they do." -YAHUWSHUWA
"None is good but The Father(YAHUWAH)" -YAHUWSHUWA
"“Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword." -YAHUWSHUWA
"Those who understand WILL NOT TASTE HARM OR DEATH." -YAHUWSHUWA
"The man aged in days will not hesitate to ask a little child of seven days about the place of life, and he shall live; for there are many first who shall be last, and they will become a single one." -YAHUWSHUWA
The final tribulation will be conquered not by violence, but by FEEDING THE POOR AND HEALING THOSE WHO ARE SICK AND RESSURECTING THE DEAD IN YAHUWSHUWA'S NAME
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. -YAHUWSHUWA.
Amen.
There are millions of people who do not believe in God. Fine. I don't understand why it is important for a scholar to study everything about the Hebrew Bible and then say, 'It is not the creation of the Devine.' Is there some information or analysis done by the scholar which conclusive proves the non-existence of God?
Put some time into Paul Wallis and Mauro biglino, and you will get what you're asking for.
What's WONDERFUL about that ???
I'm thankful you have so many excellent scholars
“Hi I’m not living in the eschaton” little hand wave 👋 😂
Those Greek scholars who wrote the Bible were awful tricksters weren't they
So what should or do we do?
Put the "holy books" in the fantasy sections and grow up as a species already
There are ZERO "lost tribes" in Tenak. The only "lost" tribes are those absorbed into the Kingdoms of Judah and Samaria.
"Benjamin was lost to Judah".... and just traditionally, even if it isn't historic, the smaller tribes were first absorbed into the larger tribes of Judah in the south and Ephraim and Manasseh in the north. And then they further got absorbed into the identity of the Kingdom.
There would have been, if this was the real social order, people of all tribes living in the southern region and those of the southern region living and working in the northern Kingdom.
We don't even see specific tribal identity after Babylon. Tribal land was "lost", tribal identity was "lost", but no tribes were exiled or scattered. The book even says a portion of the north were exiled and scattered.
Plus. modern Samaritans tell a different story. And they still maintain the tribal affiliations of Menasseh and Ephraim, oddly enough, as well as Levi. They believe they are the descendants of the Kingdom of Samaria and this tribal practice might suggest that.
Either way, all Israelites are descended from all tribes. IF tribes existed. It would be statistically impossible for them not to be after all this time and given the size of those populations.
But it's MOST likely, as suggested, the 12 tribes are propaganda. They represent the Zodiac. We see this when they are oriented around the tabernacle, when the 4 banners become the cardinal directions, Judah, Dan and I forget the other 2. I think at least, it's most likely the 12 tribes had an original symbolic meaning, esoteric meaning, perhaps in the Egyptian, Greek or Babylonian mystery traditions, and then eventually it became "history". Or if the tribes existed, they certainly didn't remain intact when the Kingdoms ascended. That is when the were really "lost" if they ever existed. Which would I think mean they were indeed just absorbed. Not scattered. . yet modern Orthodox believe in it and they actually believe modern Jews are strictly descended from benjamin, Judah and simone.. which would be and is preposterous even IF the tribes actually existed, given that they all intermarried and disappeared into the Kingdoms, of which all modern Jews are descended, and all modern Samaritans in the north, supposedly.
Today, lost tribe myths are ways for other people to appropriate Judaism for their own use and purpose. Like the Black Hebrew Israelites, or the Igbo in Africa, or "Bene Manasseh" from Myanmar I believe. It's extraordinarily unlikely any of these groups actually have Levantine/Israelite ancestors. They most overtly received these mythologies when they were introduced to Christianity, and like all "lost tribe" adherents, eventually adopted this lost tribe narrative to distinguish themselves and give significance to their existence in relation to other people. If everyone knew what it really meant to be "chosen", I wonder if they'd be so quick to pretend they descend from lost tribes.
Not that they can't practice Judaism. I mean... whatever.. Just not a fan of the one's that tell other Jews they are fakes... Anglo Israelites and BHI mostly.
You are completely correct when you are referring the 12 tribes to the zodiac. Because that is exactly the truth that is the fact.😊❤
13:00 we can be very certain that unlike traditional christians of today, Matthew was 100% conscious that Isaiah was talking of something unrelated to Jesus, and WAS NEVER ATTEMPTING TO CLAIM OTHERWISE!
The contemporary "relevance" he saw was that just as Isaiah was talking about the fall of hostile outsider nations with reference to a contemporary child, Matthew spoke of the ultimate eschaton (symbolic return of the church as true Israel from spiritual exile, through Jesus'salvific role) as something related to Jesus as a baby born under extraordinary circumstances.
Brilliant interview. Thank you.
Former calvinist fundamentalist Christian here: Dr. Joel Baden is fantastic! I would listen to him endlesly! 14:27-15:11 - Wow!!!!!!!! Есть здесь кто-то из русскоязычных подписчиков?
I'm learning Russian but still basic😊 how are things in Russia regarding the Church?? I come from a Greek orthodox background but am becoming distant for a number of reasons
Да, есть.
ага, мне интересно с какой скоростью результаты этих исследований распространятся в русскоязычном пространстве. Этот формат Библейского учёного блогера на ютуб очень крутая. Интересно слышать критику, а не только односторонние проповеди
@@vicm5272 Nice that you are learning ) It's a tough language )) Well... While you are in Church you only see one-sided idealized version of understanding the Bible...You are basically in a filter bubble... But that's just not reality. I think internet will change the religios views of many people. No more censorship!
@@curlyangel6 труды этого учёного ещё не переведены на русский, к сожалению. А так те кто интересуется уже давно в теме. Дело в том что в России это мало кого интересует
I’m so glad to be out of Christian religious frenzy
09:40 Where is this passage in Isaiah?
The entire book is an "if then" proposition. Like "If the anthropomorphic incarnation of the creator exists, these are his words". And "if Noah existed then I'm a monkey's behind."
That kind of thing lol.
I wish we could hand out pamphlets in the orthodox Jewish community. They make people think they practice the authentic and genuine Judaism, and as a Jew, I find this offensive.
Their theological ancestors, the Pharisees, weren't even the primary sect of the period. The dominant sect, were non literalist, non supernaturalists anyway. Much like the 90% of modern Jews who aren't Orthodox or Heredi. Well, something like 70% are atheists or relatively secular/reform. Something like that.
Their antiquated form of religious tyranny has no place in the Israeli government, deciding on marriage and who is Jewish and who is not Jewish. That has to change. And as Jews we need to prevent any third temple from ever being erected or suddenly most will find themselves on the bottom of a reemerging social caste of Zadokite zealots. One's who repeat the same fabrications over and over, like "Being a Cohen I am the direct male descendant of Aaron." Oh yea? Even though there are over a dozen different male lineages within the Cohen population? Lineages that can greatly differ from those in the Levite population? All of which can be found in the Yisrael population? How does that work exactly? or Levites or Yisrael for that matter. "Well I come form the House of David. I can trace my ancestors back to blaah blah blah and Shlomo the great was my babysitter." Uh uh.
I mean, it's not like modern Jews are still such a small population that they are all related or anything. And it's not like the ancient population was so tiny, so long ago, that every modern Jew would statistically be descended from every ancient Judean who passed on their genes in the community. Oh wait, that is the case. It would be physically impossible for that not to be the case. Statistically. If there was a Moses, if there was an Aaron, if there was a David, then all modern Jews are descended from all of them. That's what happens when "tribes", if they even existed, intermarry, in a tiny community that never reached more than a few million until the modern age. And in the biblical period we are likely talking about even smaller populations. So definitively, all modern Jews share all the same basic ancient ancestors up to a point in exile, whenever that might be.
So sorry Levitical Zealots, we are all descended from Aaron and all descended from Levi and all descended from every other likely fictional son of Jacob and every other ancient priestly line.
Ugh. Well, at least we don't have Christian problems. We just argue about the literal vs the symbolic, the supernatural vs the rational and the Halakha vs the no Halakha. Compared to other religions we have it easy in regard to differences under the umbrella of the faith.
So you probably don't think that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus Christ. This is a HUGE one, especially the last three verses, of the sacrifice that pleased GOD. If you don't believe in that... Wow! What can I say?
They didn’t know about Jesus - it was written long before he was born.
"If you don't change your ways ..." Sounds like biblical prophecy has something in common with global warming predictions. You often see people saying "Look - those predictions made in 1990 about global temperature rise didn't come true", and when you look at the model and the prediction in 1990 it had certain future emissions built in. The "prediction" led to some change in behavior and fewer emissions than assumed in the prediction.
God specifically mentions Israel coming back - and it began in 1948. He mentioned it via the Prophet Ezekiel in chapter 37 - and he mentioned it via the Prophet Jeremiah in 31
Jeremiah 31)
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I AM A FATHER TO ISRAEL, and EPHRAIM IS MY FIRSTBORN.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL, and with the HOUSE OF JUDAH:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which MY COVENANT THEY BRAKE, although I was an husband unto them, saith THE LORD:
33 But this shall be THE COVENANT that I WILL MAKE with THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, saith the Lord, I WILL put MY LAW in their inward parts, and write it in THEIR HEARTS; and WILL BE their God, and they shall be MY PEOPLE.
34 And they shall TEACH NO MORE every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for THEY SHALL ALL know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I WILL FORGIVE THEIR iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
[This will fulful when they have completed the 70th Week and enter into the MILLENNIAL (MESSIANIC KINGDOM) and where
Isaiah 9:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
During the Millennial / Messianic Kingdom - that is when The Lord Jesus will be called, "MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING FATHER" - this will occur. He will reign. I really believe that you are missing it. Many scholars are missing it with you.
God's Word is God's Word... believe it! The enemy wants to give you doubt about God's Word; then he wants to call God a liar. It started in the Garden with the woman. The enemy is not finished yet.
Bible prophecy is purposely vague concerning one of the most important aspects of accurately foretelling a future event: DATE/TIME.
I dont agree. I think the Old Testament ends with Messianic expectation. Meaning the birth place of the Messiah, his family line and even his Kingship were expected by Jews. The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem is this a reinterpretation or did the jews expect this before the Jesus comes into the scene.
The central message of the Old Testament, read honestly and objectively, is the establishment of a Jewish temple state in Jerusalem. But after the destruction of that temple in 70 AD, the new upstart, Christian religion was able to hijack the Hebrew Scriptures and reinterpret them as a foreshadowing of a messianic saviour figure. A reinvention that was almost universally rejected by contemporary Judaism. Only a tiny minority accepted it, which is why Christianity became a Gentile religion.
He is right, the entire Bible isn't divine, even in Hebrew. One verse in Hebrew says Ahaziah was 22 when he began to reign and another verse in another book says he was 42 when began to reign. So to get the truth of this matter, you must study other passages that describe chronological orders. He was really 22 when he began to reign if you research further. One Verse says Abraham called the place of the alter YaHUaH Yirah and another verse says Abraham didn't know the Name YaHUaH but Elohim. How dies he come with Deuteronomy 28 came about in Assyria Empire era?
Here's this 20 year difference again. Do you know the significance. Or chronologically why. Does it have to do with when the Gentile Times End.
Was it 1914 or 1934. Or Both. So the prophet Elijah would arrive 20 years early.
@@strappedfatman7858 It is a copyist error, maybe the parchment wore out and couldn't make it out as 22 but wrote 42 which is an error. He was 22 when he began to reign. The error is in every Tanach we have today.
The New Testament is the worst when you’re comparing them side by side.
Here's my professional help. Lol
I'm sitting here listening to Rush 2112 and watching Star Trek. So who changed the stardate. Or is 2012 the end of the age and Jesus shows up in 18 years from the stardate 2012. But after the Guardian of the four corners of the Earth is ruling the world. Who changed the stardate of our calendar. After Jesus is born King. He shows up in Jerusalem at 12 years old. Then he shows at age 30. Then Jerusalem is destroyed in 70 AD.
The Magi knew when Jesus was born as King. Did they use the 13th constellation.
When I look at ancient Sumerian pictures of the solar system and planets. Or is it the morning star. The same star a person puts over a Christmas tree.
Why did the Pharisees think Jesus was almost 50 years old. Who reset our calendar so Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. Our calendar was reset and counted backwards. Was it reset by 20 years to have Jesus show up at 12 years old and age 30.
Does Dr Joel Baden has a RUclips channel or a podcast???
Really nice interview. Thanks.
I guess the bible is our official first cartoon
Although you two may not care of believe in the twelve tribes, God does. The Prophets Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel (9:24-27), and Zechariah... just read and understand - and ask God to help.
James addresses the twelve tribes in verse 1...
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to THE TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Professor is current in his analysis
Religion and politics rule the world. All should be deleted and dismissed From the psychic mind and soul. Why can't man say I Love You. We are the human race.
A breath of fresh air at last
Deuteronomy follows the 20 days by chapter starting with Batz, but do not expect academia to know things like that. it is a horrible book, that looks like 30 people took turns changing, but the bones are there. Chapter 14 is Kat - What do we have to eat ? The structure shows intention and level of understanding. the intention was strong, the latter was not.
3:00 if only sceptics would learn this from Baden: biblical prophesy was rarely ever intended to predict the future even if it states some potentially future event. It was never a point of theological embarrassment when the statements of what would happen the future never "came through"
The belief in literal fulfillments (pertaining to a character named Jesus)is the bedrock upon which Christianity rests. It’s the view that has been promoted for over two millennia. So the ones who need to learn are the Christians, not the skeptics.
@@skepticus5705 what you say about 2 millenia is simply wrong. If the authors of the old testament books & presumably 2nd Temple Jews understood this about prophecy, the best you can say is about 1 millenium plus (for the idea that every assertion in an old testament prophetic book would have been a source of theological "embarrassment" if it did not play out).
Even with the example of Ezekiel's prediction of Tyre's destruction it's clear that Ezekiel himself never saw anything wrong with the fact that Babylon didn't conquer Tyre as originally predicted. He casually went on to provisionally assume that Babylon would conquer Egypt as compensation
@@tsemayekekema2918 Yes, I know there was a type of Hebrew prophecy known as Protest Literature which was intended to instigate social reform by promising future punishments. That all changed when Christianity came onto the scene. This upstart religion hijacked the Hebrew Scriptures and recast them as the Christian Old Testament with a completely new spin: It was all a prophetic foreshadowing of the coming Messiah. And so "real historic events" in the New Testament were presented as actual fulfillments of "real" Old Testament prophecies. It's a form of circular reasoning that demonstrates how important actual prophetic fulfillment was to the early Christians...to the point where they simply invented it
As for Ezekiel, his prophecy re Tyre was a failed prediction. Whenever something like that happens you can pretty much guarantee it will be followed by some type of spin doctoring in order to save face.
Dumbest argument I've ever heard. Completely, the opposite of organized religion. Let me guess, your church is the true church and only you knows the real truth?... religious are so pompous.
The word of God is the verses only he saying by profets. They are saying about same things from defferent positions
X-Files
Question. Why are the evangelical counting corpses using the bible as a springboard to perform somersaults to do the exact opposite of "love their neighbors" and "treat others like they want to be treated"?
Answer. This is sick. Because these simple concepts are too far out there to grasp for vampires (greed).
The Bible is not divine eh?
Facts about the book of Daniel which in the sixth century B.C. , accurately predicted three major world empires, showing that it was divinely inspired .
#1 Daniel was the author ....in many places is the repeated statement "I Daniel".
#2 It was not written in the first century B.C. as those who try to disprove it's accuracy , because:
a) A fragment of it was found in the Dead Sea scrolls which date before the second century B.C.
b) There are five chapters of Daniel in the kind and style of formal Aramaic that dates it to the sixth century B.C.
c) the measurements of Nebuchadnezzer's golden statue were based on the number "six" as in " 60 cubits high and six cubits wide"...the numerical system of the sixth century B.C. was based on the number "six" until it was replaced by the number "10" by the Greeks.
Every WORD in Daniel about the Medo-Persian empire, the Greek empire and the Roman empire was proven TRUE before any of them existed. Not divine eh? Good Luck with that!
I see Professor Joel Baden as a reputable man since his introduction to me. I see his explanations as accurate and we'll thought and researched. But why do people believe these things when there's so much discrepancy in them? They are told what to believe cuz it's too much work to find out for yourself, unlike me!
Science explains some of the physics and very little of the metaphysical realm as dark energy/matter , they also claim self creation and upside down thermodynamics as their science migrates into their own religion .It is not at all about science ,it is only religion vs religion and lots of false claims in between .If you want to find truth keep the basics straight ,intelligence will eventually lead you to more intelligence .
You start with Sir James Frazer on this question, and then you end with Sir James Frazer on this question.
@@obiecanobie919 Science doesn't say anything about the metaphysical realm at all. Dark energy/matter are just as physical as water or earth, and you would know that if you had taken elementary astronomy. No one claims self-creation and no one is using weird thermodynamics, which I am sure you don't even understand by the looks of it. No one is making science into a religion, and human intelligence/intuition is frequently flawed and a bad way of examining the world. Amazingly, everything you said is wrong
@@TheGemar14 Science without the help of metaphysics cannot tell what is possible unless science become metaphysics . Your condition hasn't changed much in the last 5000 years ,science hasn't changed much in a way of happiness ,the way of life ,how long we live and the rational of life ,in many cases it made it worse ,empty promises for naïve ears .
@@obiecanobie919 Actually, science has no need for metaphysics to discover what's possible. The human condition has greatly changed over the past 5000 years, I don't know what you're on about. Were it not for Einstein's special relativity, no one would know that it is impossible to exceed the speed of light. Why didn't your metaphysicians predict that impossibility? Science wasn't designed to make people happy, not sure why you mentioned happiness. Science has absolutely changed the way we live and our lifespan. Our lifespans are generally longer due to modern medicine and you cannot be seriously suggesting that we live exactly like people thousands of years ago. All you've offered is philosophical babble that makes it seem like you're the naïve one
Very good episode!
What a load of Olympic level mind gymnastics and contortionism. Holy hell
If I get a penny every time I hear " like "
I’m glad 1st Corinthians chapter 9 got brought up, specifically:
verse 9: ‘For the law of Moses says, “You must not muzzle an ox to keep it from eating as it treads out the grain.” Was God thinking only about oxen when he said this?’ (New Living Translation)
In fact, for the first 18 verses of this chapter, Paul is almost saying- I do and do and do for you people, and these are the thanks that I get!
He doesn’t quite say this. But he kind of does! 🏔 🚴🏽♂️
Forwarning of punishment if people don't change their ways is one thing, but prophesying about future events regardless of a change in behavior is another. E.g., all the prophesies in Revelation do not warn the world with 'change your behavior or such and such will happen'. It just states that it will happen.
Revelation is apocalyptic literature much like Daniel, Enoch, the Apocalypse of Peter, etc. Apocalyptic literature has never made predictions about some far off future. So, no, none of the things in Revelation are actually about the future. They are symbols of the political realities during the author's own time, from the whore of Babylon representing Rome, to 666/616 being code for Nero in the Hebrew numbering system
@@TheGemar14 "...political realities during the author's own time.."
If that was the case then Christ would be reigning and there would be none of the evil that is going on now. We haven't seen the last day yet, or the new heavens and the new earth - there would be an end to the line of temporal 'beasts'/kingdoms/political systems spoken about in Daniel and Revelation, there would be no more pagan Papacy and Christ's eternal kingdom of righteousness would be now, but it obviously is not. So there are still things spoken about the last days that have not yet happened, which means you are wrong - Revelation and Daniel are prophetic. I would say we are at about the "feet of iron mixed with clay" stage (Daniel 2).
@@TheGemar14 ruclips.net/video/xPQjYqk_mI8/видео.html
@@henryschmit3340 You are absolutely wrong. The reason Christ is not reigning on earth, that none of it came true because...the author was wrong about everything. There is no kingdom, there is no antichrist or tribulation or prophecy. He was wrong just like all the rest of the Bible's authors. Sorry to disappoint with reality. Even Christians like Augustine in the middle ages started to view Revelation as symbolic. Your literal view of Revelation is anachronistic and a fringe view in Christianity among crazy evangelicals which makes no sense.
@@TheGemar14 I am very impressed with your ignorance. You are still wrong. Both Daniel and Revelation specifically talk about the "last days" and all the various 'beasts'/kingdoms/political systems that would follow one after the other, until the final Judgment by Jesus Christ. As simple as it is, and as clearly as it is explained in both Daniel and Revelation, you don't understand the prophetic (symbolic) language being used in both of those books - the interpretation of the symbolic language being given in the very same books of Daniel and Revelation. You would have to be blind not to see it. Since you have no idea what is being conveyed in these scriptures, then I will take the Bible's word over yours.
Let me correct what Joel is saying about early followers. What they believed that there was a law-giver that gave god’s law and that later writers came along and altered the law. So this original is what they believed they were following. So, for instance, when a law gave men the authority to only sacrifice the animals at the temple, the Evyon believe this was an adjustment over time because men insisted on giving sacrifices to god. The Evyon believed that immersion was a satisfactory replacement to killing animals.
In addition, Yeshua was a dichotomous figure, saying one thing to satisfy the “righteous” in public, and another thing to his inner circle that explains his “parables” in private. We often do not know what the private meaning is clearly. It is however clear that Yeshua was not about taking slaves or concubines, rather forgiving debt and sins. So one has to be careful about the intent. Yeshua knows they know the Torah and the prophets, but he is drawing for certain aspects more or less like this
‘You know that X told you to do Y, but I tell you that ‘Y’ is not enough, X told you this because he knew you were weak in spirit, if you want to be ‘pure’ in the view of god you must also do Z. Is it not said . . . ..
Lol, Derek, the twelve tribes in Christian theology, you really threw Joel out on a limb.
People move dileberatly THe prophecy Change it
These prophets spoke as were inspired by God. If Isaiah said, "Thus saith The Lord..." then it comes from The Lord. To change it and to break meaning. You seem to be TOO SMART for God's WORD. Apparently you cannot understand that a prophecy could be for the current time AND something for the future as well.
When the daughter of Pharaoh named the Hebrew child, 'Moses' (drawn out) - God used Moses to draw out Israel from Egypt. While in the wilderness when Israel was drawn out of Egypt - most of the Israelites could not get 'Egypt' out of 'Israel'.
With the church (called out) - by Christ Jesus, the people were 'CALLED OUT' of the world to be a people separate from the world. And at the time of Moses' birth, Pharaoh commanded the mid-wives to slay all the males born. In the time of Herod when Joseph took baby Jesus to Egypt, Herod commanded all the infants and babies (2 year old's and younger) to be slain (it may have been males only, but) - see the pattern?
To say that 'The Bible' is not divine could be true in a sense: these are just books written by man, and copies were made. I could say that THAT may not necessarily be divine. In 'The Bible' is 'The Word of God'. When God inspired his prophets to speak or write... that was DIVINE. I'm not talking about false prophets, I am talking about the prophets of THE LORD.
Political Ponerology is very important to learn
The book Political Ponerology is a must read for you
1/10 men 1/100 women are born with no empathy
How did this man obtain a doctorate when he says "like" as every fourth word in sentence?
His dissertation committee, like, liked him and stuff so they, like, totally got, like, his research.
Some people express themselves better in writing than in speech.
After ...like... about ...like... a dozen in ...like... the first ...like... 30 seconds, I ...like... gave up.
He...like...put in the work and was...like... successful. Mystery Solved.
people could get overwhelmed by interviews so they stutter.. duh! 💁 that's in no way reflective though of the veracity of what is uttered..💁
Like Jesus is coming. Like for real.
I believe Mr Baden can do better than that. There are other OT theologians that do so much better when it comes to biblical interpretation. BTW we know that prophets are poets and the message is presented as "Thus says the Lord". Please do more than just dwell on the periphery of the stories.
Dr. Braden is a scolar not a theologian. It's important to know the difference.
@@jefffloyd9671 Oh here we go clarifying Mr. Baden credentials and even a suggestion. Well Mr. Baden is a historian with a PHD in Hebrew Bible Studies and a M.A Northwest Semitics and even further his undergrad work was on Judaic Studies at Yale. None of that can be achieved without theological training.
@@vecumex9466 what do you think the difference is? Between historical scholar and theologian, honest question.
@@jefffloyd9671 I suppose it is the concentration of work mainly historical scholars study archeology, history, biblical literature and so on. IMHO what happens with biblical scholars is that it is exceedingly difficult to specialize in this field avoiding training in theological studies. You are right there is a difference between historical scholars and theologians but for Christians, Jews (perhaps Muslims not sure) the theological training is extensive even if they just concentrate their work on historical criticism such as Mr. Baden. They become repetitive and often have little to add to the conversation unless if they present biblical arguments within its historical and theological context. I encourage you to read Stanley Hauerwas more of a theologian than a historian but his take on moral ethics, the role of liberalism in a democratic society etc. and his theological insights in my opinion are extremely beneficial. I'm no longer interested in spending time trying to decipher the limited historical accounts of the Scriptures. We already know that most of the stories in the Scriptures are not historical accounts..Ok fine but the work on the ground remains to be done isn't it? The rat race of selling books and presenting seminars-webinars. The forces of free market capitalism are attempting to intoxicate biblical scholarship LOL. Although important I moved on to what I deemed to be a more functional pursue of the text and biblical-church tradition.
8:14
The Bible was written by humans. Some of it contains great wisdom, some of it is mental trash. With all due respect, you don't need a scholar to know this.
The word of god is within you! Ye are the living scriptures! Ye are the temple!
That said, great reads are the Bible, the Dao De Jing, the Baghavad Gita and certain writings of the Gnostics in the Naghammadi Library.
Yes both Christ and Buddha taught this!!!
@@freddieblue6351 socalled scholars like Joel don't believe Jesus is a real person.
Czechoslovakia rules!
I believe the word you're looking for in this talk is going to be repurpose, that appears to be what you're talkin about through the whole 30 minute video, a lot of repurpose a scripture
Bible prophecy is purposely vague concerning one of the most important aspects of accurately foretelling a future event: DATE/TIME.
Of course, Isaiah married that woman and then she gave birth ... way to nail your prophecy, Issy!
(and so, theologians, at least wannabe theologies of a certain stripe, work them for all they are worth as if they are archetypal)
A failed prophecy is a successful prophecy, well that's convenient. So prophecies are unfalsifiable? It succeeds if it is true or false. That is the best bs get out clause ever. I didn't make something up, you avoided it or you didn't interpret it correctly.
Think of it like driving in traffic. Your successful predictions of other drivers' actions result in a safe journey. At the end of the drive there is no way of validating the predictions you made. However, when your predictions fail there can be death and destruction.
I think the point Joel was making was this: you should view prophecies not as some sort of mystical account of the future, but as exhortations to people living at the time. Same way you have adults saying to children: if you smoke, you will get lung cancer. Nothing supernatural about the prophecies
Thanks
Good video.
Wow...like.. like..like.. you know..like..like.. right..aaaa yeah..but no..like..
fxking hell. 🤕
What did I just watch 😂
The Bible was authored and written by man , but yet it is divinely inspired. Disprove that....
I think you've got the burden of proof thing the wrong way around there
There was a text writen that within it had a code and this code will be a key to life. The academic looked at the text and could not see the parable writen within it. He took it literally. He told the world there was no deep meaning because he could not see the deeper meaning of the text.
The mention of the two peoples is a huge clue. The North followed there own train of thought on what God wanted. The south followed what God wanted and when they faltered they payed a price.
Its like a parable from Jesus. You have to look at the story symbolically.
The Tora is saying symbolically telling us how we got into a mess and how to get out of it. It uses real life to explain it and God knows we are unlikley to follow the plan. Hence life repeats itself in cycles. One day the world will come together and say Ahh, got it and work together.
Except the Torah's symbolic description of how humanity got into its mess is wrong as well
@@TheGemar14 The Torah was written for everyone to read. At the end of Tora it describes how Moses will be buried insight but no one will see his grave. Life is a choice. You choose to see or not. Good luck.
@@marksingleton7199 The Torah was written for the Jews more or less during exile and depicts a very capricious, human god with human emotions not unlike the gods of the Greeks
@@TheGemar14 The Torah shows the purpose of creation. The seperation causes the purpose to falter. God circumvents the problem but needs to correct what is happening on Earth. Mankind follows his own path which is life and death. Eventually life here will end through disaster or the sun changing.
@@marksingleton7199 Prove that God exists and wrote the Torah, then we can talk. And I'm not interested in philosophical or theological arguments which don't mean anything. Reproducible Experiments that clearly demonstrate a god exists
What a mensch, bravo!
70 years and 70 x 7 are two DIFFERENT things not reshaping a narrative smh! So in other words, if your interpretation doesn't fit what history records actually happens, then the Bible and not your interpretation is wrong?? Okay...
Well, the 70x7 thing didn't come true either, so it's not like either interpretation is right
@@TheGemar14 well accept that it did come true already
@@DidymusBenYahweh Except it didn't. I don't know what you're talking about. The book of Daniel clearly talks about Antiochus Epiphanes as the ultimate evil since it was written by a guy living during his reign. The prediction that at the end of the 490 years Antiochus would be killed in Israel totally failed.
@@TheGemar14 has absolutely nothing to do with Antiochus and everything to do with Messiah Yeshua. Maybe that's why you don't see it. You don't understand who the main focus of the 70 weeks prophesy is about.
@@TheGemar14 also Daniel was written WELL before Antiochus anyway, not during his lifetime.
Neville Goddard was correct about Imagination being God in man, outside churches are made with hands for sons of man (first adam) looking and waiting for what's in them Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, w)hen the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (second Adam) wakes in you not seen by Saul looking outside before he became Paul who woke inside himself.
Typical theology is with nothing new under the sun that's repeated. You just don't know who you are yet.
Life is not a myth....Life is Real because God is Real......myths are for the pagans....
What is going on with human speech ... like... it is like... it has like ... gone like ... to the like... toilet like...
AND RIGHT?RIGHT? RIGHT!
Like right right like the the like like right ah ah right like .
It sounds like he is redefining prophecy. Also these prophets said this and that will happen not might happen. It sounds like an apologetic argument to explain another failure of the Bible.
Please watch the great jewish masque. There was only two tribes: sons of the flea and sons of the donkey.
I thought joe Biden lol
Joe had to change his name and appearance after the Bishops refused to give him communion.
...this actually makes more sense than anything he says...
@@Darisiabgal7573 I dont think Joe Biden believes in Catholicism.
@@SumiOccult Don’t look now but he’s a non believing Jew.
what is your goal here? are you trying to bring Christians to atheism? i used to be in and out of jail and a heroin addict for years and years the only thing that saved me was the bible and learning more about my Christian faith and you wanting to take that away from people is just so lame.
His goal is to educate people. And if learning the truth about the Bible leads to atheism, so much the better.
@@skepticus5705 thats twisted logic. Furst of all no one has the absolute truth, thats why its called faith. Jesus tought to love your neighbore be good to others and love one another that is yhe core belief in christianity, to turn people away from that is not a benefit. I would have killed myself if my cellmate didnt hand me the bible and studied it with me, thank god for that.
@@papinbala The Bible also teaches that unbelievers will burn in hell. How many people throughout history have suffered needless mental torment because of that belief? So turning away from Christianity will definitely benefit them, without giving up any of the positive things, which are also taught by other religions as well as atheistic secular humanism. And the truth of the Bible that I am referring to is that it reads exactly as it should if it was written by a primitive iron-age culture.
@@skepticus5705 yes it teaches that if you turn away from God that you will burn in hell but no one is torturing you are they? for you its just fantasy right? so why do you even care? the bible doesn't teach Christians to inflict any kind harm on anybody, you are complaining about something that happens after death? really? that's your issue? so let me get this straight it is beneficial for people to turn away from Christianity because people who dont believe in god will go to hell after they die? lol WHAT? you make no sense at all. sorry buddy but NO
@@papinbala I care because it’s morally repugnant to me to threaten people with torture for not believing as you do. It’s a sick, sadistic fantasy that unfortunately many have been convinced is real. But it’s not, and understanding that is enormously beneficial to everyone, including you. As for the Bible teaching Christians not to harm others…I burst out laughing when I read that. Regardless of what they’ve been taught Christians have been slaughtering and persecuting in the name of their loving Jesus ever since they gained political power in the 4th century.
No Christian ever believed the Bible is Devine so not sure why the title?
Well, I think you're wrong.I have a friend who thinks survival is divine😢
I hope you are right. Even so fear the deity and keep his commandments.
Pascal's wager is a fallacy.
SPIRITUALLY AND INTELLECTUALLY THIS MAN HAS NOTHING TO OFFER...A DEAD END.
Spirituality?
Joe Biden 😂
He doesn't know what he is talking about the 10 tribes. They spread over the Caucasion mountains, over the Black sea and spreas over Europa. There they started knowing !s the gentiles that Paul was talking about, not because they were "lost" but they forgot whonthey were, though still ascendants of Abraham. If you don't know what happened dont confuse the rest.
Too many like like like very distracting
When you say "the bible is not divine" you implicitly admit that the divine exists, but the bible is incompatible with divine work. Otherwise, if the divine is not, then how the bible could be not divine, and why would you say that? But you claim that you know how a divine work should be done and look like. You know better that God how would and should communicate a message in and through hystory, or to certain people in certain times, and how God works. You think that God should do that according to your standards and understanding; human, limited, imperfect personal standards and understanding. And, if He's not doing so, He's not doing good and is not God. But you're not God, and don't have divine knowledge, not even close, so you don't know how would God want to inspire his intentions.
Even Joel points to the broader meanings that the bible texts can have and it was given by the very traditional rabbis and commentators. And, maybe, that's precisely how a divine scripture should be and why the bible is so: with different and complex lines and levels of understanding and interpretation. Like the typological pattern of sacrifice and offering pointing to Christ. It is not a book or a guide simply and only intending to deliver and perform prophecies, but, first of all, to educate and discipline and, ultimately, to deliver humanity and the world from their corruption and from death.
But Jesus Christ was divine and He read from the OT the Isaiah passage about Him. And He quotes many other passages, so He accepts the OT as divine, and later, through His Church, he delivers and completes it with the NT. And Christ is a higher authority on the scriptures than any other human being, by the miracles and the resurrection He performed. The bible is a book pointing towards Christ, and that's divine. So, Christianity is not even about the bible, it is about Christ and his Church. It is Christ, the Church(his body) and then the bible. The bible is about Christianity, not the other way around.
13:00 Joel and the claim that Isaiah 53 "is [not] speaking about Jesus". No, he is not speaking about the person Jesus of Nazareth, but he speaks about the Christ, and Jesus happened to be the Christ and to fulfill that prophecy.
15:40 Dereck is twisting the bible, not Paul. Paul does not say in 1 cor 9.9,10 that "don't tie the mouth of the ox when he is threshing" refers to "him", but to "us", the apostles, the workers of the Church. He doesn't say that that verse is a prophecy about him, but that it applies to them, the apostles. Again, that's an example of how the bible have a broader meaning, both literal and metaphorical, and how it can be read in different ways and can reffer to and explain different aspects without contradicting, but completing each others. And that's another way of Paul showing that the old law points to Christ and to His Church.
A contradiction is a contradiction...no matter how much you try to dress it up as completeness.
@@willydakid6596 only if there are real contradictions, not apparent ones at a superficial look. And to see the completeness is to undress it from the apparent contradictions.
This sleigh is not Santa Clause's. Is this an admission Santa Clause exists? It is safe to say this reindeer does not fly is not an admission of flying reindeer.
@@reluctantheist5224 that's a different thing, because, like I've already argued, the claim that the bible is not divine is based on the presupposition that one knows how a divine work should be, and comparing between the bible and one's own natural intuition of the divinity. So, yes, it's a subtle issue. It's not that, unlike Santa or unicorns, God is logically inconsistent based on our understanding and reasoning, but, by the contrary, that God is the standard for any consistency we claim, logical, moral of of any kind.
@@viravirakti it is based on what human reasoning can deduce since human reasoning is all humans have. If the book appears to be the same as all the other claimed divine books, that is, nothing out of the ordinary then we must deduce it is ordinary like the other claims. We can, at the very least, say it is ordinary and builds on previous traditions and stories of the time.
Bottom line without Bible the world will be a is just vast of waste land, meaning less, even if human reached its pinnacle of his knowledge.
Christianity has dominated the West for a very long time now, and if it was such an uplifting, divinely inspired, life-changing revelation then shouldn’t the ills of society such as poverty, crime and war have been eliminated, or greatly reduced, in the areas where the majority of the population practiced this faith?Doesn’t the fact that it was “business as usual” during its reign suggest that Christianity is actually meaningless to those who profess to believe in it?
Speak for yourself
--WHAT! The Bible is not Divine? Of course it is! It says so! Read it and weep, buddy.
Give it up mythvision the bible is real and so is Jesus!!!
Come on!
Prove it and then I'll listen
Yeshua bar Yusuf (Jesus) preached a prophecy about an apocalypse that never happened. Your appeal to Jesus fits exactly into what Dr Baden is describing.
Jesus was a failed end times preacher and deluded cult leader. He was preaching the end of the world would come before some of his followers died. Didn't happen.
It's Hebrew mythology.
The Bible is a plagiarized, summarized retelling of much older Sumerian text. The Romans created Christianity, omitted many books and perverted the original teaching of Yeshua. Anyone written about the Bible did not write anything in the Bible.
Joel baden looks like Stephen Spielberg. Lol