My hunch says there is a counter for baal to tell which wave you are on (1,2,3,4,5,6). As soon as he finishes the laugh, they increment the counter and then do the spawn animation. They play the spawn animation and you have a few frames before the game actually spawns the enemies (probably some fps based timer). What you are doing is getting the game to increment the wave counter and leave the area. The game normally saves what enemies are in far away zones but since the monsters were not created yet, it can't save them. Next time you walk in the throne room, the game does a check to see if any monsters are left in the area. Since none spawned and none are left, the game increments to the next wave, does the spawn animation, and so on and so on. In theory, if you can teleport fast enough this could also work. nycMaxim seems to remember teleporting and doing this. I guess in theory if you could run fast enough, this could also work. Seems like this bug could allow you to skip all 5 waves.
This is a big one. Being able to consistently skip Baal's Minions cannot be understated. Some characters have a very hard time dealing with them and it can take a loooong time to kill them. Any experienced D2 player will tell you that those Minions are actually deadlier than Baal himself.
@@zhulza too many variabilities to give a straight answer as certain skills/mods like static, charged strike, or slow enemy % makes baal obscenely easy, but in terms of speed-running there aren't very many immune monsters you are forced to kill even with a full quest speed run which means you don't have to take points into an off skill anymore for a lot of builds which can drastically boost your times. For a lightning build in a fc speed run with this strat the only light immunes you have to kill are council and grand vizier both of which are fairly easy and not all of the council is light immune.
you're having a lot of trouble articulating. Baal launches a projectile at an arch, and does stage++; stage 1 - first wave, 2 - second wave etc when the projectile has a timer on it, it destroys itself and spawns the wave when the timer reaches its limit. The projectile, however, is not a persistent entity, like a living monster or unopened loot container, therefore when the zone is unloaded, the projectile is NOT saved into memory, so it is de-spawned, along with its timer, but stage++; has already happened. That's it. Next part to explain is the timing and the dipping, how the unload check works isn't as precise as it could be, all entities in memory are put through a foreach() loop and checked if they are in an unloaded zone, but this isn't multithreaded - since multithreading wasn't really a known thing back then. Kind of like how bugged items in a while() loop are a result of the game engine preventing an infinite loop and cancelling the loop after 7 runs, the game engine takes that foreach loop and splits it into separate tasks and puts them into the priority list for the CPU as a separate thing, to prevent game stalling, so - though it happens very quickly, it happens WAY slower than it *should* happen. This means what you need to do is make sure baal is close enough to the player when HE comes up in the foreach cycling but the projectile is not. This means two things for timing: ONE) the LESS entities thee are (if you kill everything and clear the corpses) the more consistent the timing will be, *BUT* the MORE entities there are (the more enemies are left alive in loaded zones) the bigger window of time you have between "dipping" into baal and exitting the zone - so if you are getting good at it, the less enemies the better, but if you are new and relying on luck, the more enemies the better. You may even be able to write a quick plugin or even a cheat-engine script to monitor the bit of memory that's being used to evaluate the entity being checked (a pointer to an address, an offset from that address will give the monster/entity name) but it will probably not help, since it should still be flashing by at about 30 entities per second. Would be interesting to see, and may help when practicing the kill all monsters first method. final note: this isn't a new bug, this bug was being used by bots back in ladder 2, you should try to contact some of the people that used to sell items back in like 2001/2002 - before duping there were several things like this used. Hell, in 2000/2001 before LoD dropped - if I remember right - there was a way with sorceress to spawn diablo without killing the all seal bosses. I'm not sure if it will work still or not, but basically all you did was attract up monsters from down below the main chamber, tele to seals and pop them all, then move them in to the center, enough monsters would overwhelm the check, then just kill the ghost seal boss (it's the fastest one to kill) and everything dies. Added benefit, if you use blizzard or frozen orb, you get a lot of chances at item drops that way too. I don't remember how reliably it could be reproduced, because the number of monsters needed is pretty high - I think the bot used the presence of a champion pack or something to determine if that was faster than killing all of them or not? Check some old botter forums on an archive or wayback machine or something.
Came here to say this. People would do this in public baal lobbies even. Diablo seal skip too, not sure how that one worked but you could kill just diablo. It was either d2jsp or whatever the precursor was. At worst I think you had to do one seal. When you're botting all day saving 20 sec per run is massive. I'm kind of surprised that this baal trick seems to be obscure. Feels like everyone knew about it in the day.
20 years and d2 still surprises. Bartuc dropped me a vex yesterday so i dont think ill be skipping any baal wave. You may have already skipped mang song's when you made this video lol
Because the Town Portal keeps as a "dead person", can you use the TP to sit in the area, then at the right time place a NEW TP outside of his 2.5 screens to remove yourself from the zone? I feel like that might make this an easier trick to pull off, since you wont have to "Dip" into a fairly arbitrary area, you could drop the TP willy-nilly, then get rid of it at a specific time.
Llama, are the floor tiles in Throne of Destruction always the same? If so, I was trying to look where you were clicking when you got skips. Maybe try clicking on specific noticeably darker pixels as a reference point to see if it gets the skip?
I suspect that the game starts the wave summoning animation, and at that time marks the wave as summoned. But the player going away prevents the actual summoning at the end of the animation, and the success of the summoning is never checked in the code. I would recommend writing down timings of audio track starting, animation starting, their lengths, and then using clock to time the skip attempts to occur during the animation.
I’m new to programming, but my thoughts are that it’s keeping track of how many of those “spawn bolts” he has cast, so if you unload the “spawn bolt” before it hits the ground, it gets deleted, but still logs that he’s casted it. It then checks if all enemies are gone, and surprise, they are, so it moves on to the next wave.
yeah that's what i think as well. basically when he launches the orb it counts as wave spawn, when the orb hits the ground the wave will actually appear. if the zone gets unloaded, everything except monsters, unopened chests, items, etc. will disappear. since the orb is none of those things, it will also disappear. just gotta time it so that the unloading happens while the orb is in the air.
I think it works this way: you trigger the yellow ball throwing sequence ( the ball that spawns the minions ), but you leave the zone before the ball turns into mobs.
Potential clarification to your theory as to "why" - My best take is that if you cause Baal's area to "unload" just as the spawn trigger for the wave is occurring, the "unloaded" state prevents them from being spawned at all, and they don't automatically appear when the zone "loads" again because there's no longer an active spawn trigger to make the wave appear. The Baal coding checks against the presence of the previous wave, and so moves on to the next wave spawn trigger sequence. Rinse, repeat to keep using the "unloaded" state to break the spawn trigger. This glitch would likely work using the same distance logic on any scripted spawn triggers with a delay the player can react to (Baal's laugh, in this case).
My hunch says there is a counter for baal to tell which wave you are on (1,2,3,4,5,6). As soon as he finished the laugh, they increment the counter and then do the spawn animation. They play the spawn animation and you have a few frames before the game actually spawns the enemies (probably some fps based timer). What you are doing is getting the game to increment the wave counter and leave the area. The game normally saves what enemies are in far away zones but since the monsters were not created yet, it can't save them. Next time you walk in the throne room, the game does a check to see if any monsters are left in the area. Since none spawned and none are left, the game increments to the next wave, does the spawn animation, and so on and so on. In theory, if you can teleport fast enough this could also work. nycMaxim seems to remember teleporting and doing this.
WAIT. I know about that for like 10 years, never thought about communicating about it for speedrunning purposes. I've managed to do that to skip wave5 with my melee characters on solo playthroughs with moderate success (I'd say 1 times out of 2 I can do that). I did use a TP scroll to click which is in my opinion far more precise and easier to pull out than the walking thing. I think it works with teleport too.
May have discovered a new method of skipping waves. Not entirely sure if it has to do with the damage dealt by my abilities but I’m pretty sure it at least involves the abilities I’m using. Found it with a sorc running firewall at 39 and blaze at 28, both synergized with a maxed warmth and infinity merc. setting up massive traps with both spells seems to sometimes cause the wave to be skipped. Most consistently seems to skip the council waves. I think it’s because they try to spawn over like 10 stacks of blaze and 2 firewalls, but I’m not sure
So weird just the other day when I was doing Baal waves, I was thinking...how did they code this without any bugs or exploits. well here we are now lol.
I mean there was that old ass exploit of taking some waves off of the zone and teleporting back to spawn another wave but you couldn't use it to skip any ranged wave.
whole bugusing/exploiting stuff is honestly not really something i'd want to do myself, but it is certainly interesting and cool to watch. kinda like weaponized laws of nature or physics or something. utilizing inherent properties of the universe in which the game takes place in order to achieve victory.
What if you drop an item at the sweet spot and then click on it, your character will always walk to the right spot? Have full inventory so it stays there?
Such a cool discovery. This has great potential in races and speedrunning. This question is going to be incredibly niche, but I'm going ask it out of curiosity. Once refined, would wave skipping to kill Baal now be as efficient for EXP from 98 - 99 as Chaos? I'm sure plenty would argue "but Baal's waves give experience". Under normal (and lower level) circumstances, yes! But since the change to experience at 1.10+, at level 98? Hardly anything gives EXP due to diminishing returns, especially being 10 levels over champion and elite packs. The only monsters which provide a reasonable amount are Diablo, Baal and Nihlathak (obviously in Hell only). Under the presumption that hardly anyone would want to grind out Nihlathak (even though he's the fastest to kill, it's also the most risky), so that leaves Diablo and Baal. So let's look at each situation for perspective: Act IV - Diablo. - Teleport into Chaos Sanctuary (from River of Flame) - Pop each seal on the 3 corresponding sides (and kill their champions) - Kill Diablo (after a small wait while CS shakes and spawns them) Potential benefits: Shrine spawn (best being experience) and more gear drops from champions (Though often limited to superuniques, which cannot drop most high end TCs, apart from I believe Arachnid's Mesh and Azurewrath because of their Qlvl). Detriments: Varying density in CS could make some runs tough to maneuver overall and immunity coverage (depending on character). Act V - Baal. - Teleport to Throne of Destruction (let's just say for this example you've farmed an efficient map with very little teleporting required) - Clear the throne room and likely the entrance. - Wave skip through using the exploit mentioned in this video. - Kill Baal in the Worldstone Chamber. Potential benefits: Provided the throne room isn't overly cluttered, I would guess a minute would be enough to do all 5 skips, once mastered. Also staying on Players 3 would suffice, since the focus is Baal and his EXP in hell caps at players 3 (due to bugs/changes since 1.10). Detriments: Cluttered throne room, as well as annoying monsters (Souls & Dolls), failing skips could be a varying time loss based on which wave and dealing with those immunity coverages (like hammerdins with act 2). Wave skips could also be monotonous to grind. The only thing I don't recall is how much EXP Diablo gives VS Baal at 98. This might narrow the gap on which provides better EXP overall if you're on that grind to 99. Before all this, CS was efficient because you control the flow of how fast the run is, whereas Baal stalls the run by laughing between single champion waves, which again, at 98, provide almost nothing. This could be an interesting experiment to determine which of the two would be the best EXP per hour. Might be better for some classes, might be worse. Keep in mind, this also applies to VERY few people, since I don't imagine many players actively grind to 99, especially if they were to try coordinate wave skipping on battlenet. Either way, this is an awesome discovery and can't wait for more!
I bet the spawn wave if like a spell and you basically step in to trigger it, but it has an instance of the spell between him tossing it and the spawn happening. So when you dip out as you move away the spell get's dematerialized since it's not a monster/player
There's a lot of info/work that I and others have been posting to this forum here on this topic and will continue to post findings: www.speedrun.com/d2lod/thread/a0hcn
I remember people skipping waves in priv baal run games some 10-15 years ago. wasn't widespread knowledge. but yeah leaving the zone fast enough seems to prevent them from spawning. if I remember correctly they also used teleporting to do this, not walking back and forth across zone lines like how you are doing it. anyways, have fun :)
@@legend36555 thats fine lol. there was a lot of d2 knowledge that wasn't well known lol. I ran into this when I was doing baal runs with a pvp group that would regularly level their characters into the high high 90s. they would routinely skip wave 2 in baal runs to speed up their runs. teleport in to activate the wave, teleport out to cancel the wave. they set the tp portal outside the zone for everyone to come in. I remember someone explaining it to me on ventrillo since I never saw any other group do that before. Was not widespread knowledge, we were also not speedrunners but rather pvp players looking to grind faster so we can get back to pvp.
Sooooooo. with this exploit, a sub 55 minutes sorc may be possible, am I right? (current sorc norm any % is still like 59 minutes? totally lost track of WRs)
You could use map hack and scroll the screen to see what's happening. You may need two people in the game. One to look and one to trigger the spawn animation.
@@yerd1511 you cant tho. At act 3 you can run through the whole act anyway, it isnt like act 2 where it would be possible to skip desert and go straight to the palace.
So... Is there enough room/time in ancients to try and do the same to their trigger? (Edit: probably not since it happens so fast/small delay.) Maybe there's things to be done with Diablo?
I'm like 99% sure I've done this on battlenet, way back in the day. I never found the precise timing or positioning, but I did an awful lot of Baal runs, and I've definitely had missing waves a few times, and going in and out of the zone was a regular strategy when you weren't quite high level enough to handle it solidly.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the level designer who created the throne-room _knew_ about the engine limits and designed it precisely the correct size to be able to pull this off. Makes me wonder if there isn't somewhere else that's designed to be abusable in this way... Though, I can't think of anything in a traditional speed-run off of the top of my head.
I try to figure it out today. Well its very hard to get the skip. It seems you need to be in a exact frame when you reenter baal throne room. It works mostly when you reenter after 8 seconds of the end of baals laugh.
This one comes straight out of previous one. I can hardly imagine why diablo 2 players back in the Day didn't found it. Pretty easy to understand if you know how the world is built
Yeah, for each of 84 current sub categories (7 classes*HC/SC*1/7/x players*normal/hell). So, there will be 168 categories. Removing "player count separation" someone suggested would not help a lot.
Is this diablo 2 or project diablo? Also I have the best technique for tele from world stone keep. It all depends ds on what direction the waypoint is facing
![[GUIDE] GAMBLING IN Diablo 2 Resurrected](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XMFpwZ2RnOA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[GUIDE] GAMBLING IN Diablo 2 Resurrected](/img/tr.png)
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
"You just want to like...touch it."
"I think I'm going in a little too deep."
"You can see it's VERY tight, and we're still learning it."
- Llama 2020
said it all without even blinking. Hahaha when he said too deep I died
I got to "little too deep" and came straight to comments lol
Family friendly content.
I don't need wave skips to hear that laugh...
Played so much d2 I hear that laugh when I'm driving to work.
My hunch says there is a counter for baal to tell which wave you are on (1,2,3,4,5,6). As soon as he finishes the laugh, they increment the counter and then do the spawn animation. They play the spawn animation and you have a few frames before the game actually spawns the enemies (probably some fps based timer). What you are doing is getting the game to increment the wave counter and leave the area. The game normally saves what enemies are in far away zones but since the monsters were not created yet, it can't save them. Next time you walk in the throne room, the game does a check to see if any monsters are left in the area. Since none spawned and none are left, the game increments to the next wave, does the spawn animation, and so on and so on. In theory, if you can teleport fast enough this could also work. nycMaxim seems to remember teleporting and doing this. I guess in theory if you could run fast enough, this could also work. Seems like this bug could allow you to skip all 5 waves.
Ok but wave 5 was holding mang songs.
😆
So it's very good he skipped, because his heart would be broken.
This is a big one. Being able to consistently skip Baal's Minions cannot be understated. Some characters have a very hard time dealing with them and it can take a loooong time to kill them. Any experienced D2 player will tell you that those Minions are actually deadlier than Baal himself.
Incorrect only last pack could possibly be stronger than Baal and even that is still wrong for most builds in the game.
@@zhulza too many variabilities to give a straight answer as certain skills/mods like static, charged strike, or slow enemy % makes baal obscenely easy, but in terms of speed-running there aren't very many immune monsters you are forced to kill even with a full quest speed run which means you don't have to take points into an off skill anymore for a lot of builds which can drastically boost your times. For a lightning build in a fc speed run with this strat the only light immunes you have to kill are council and grand vizier both of which are fairly easy and not all of the council is light immune.
The issue is the immunities, and speed modifiers the minion packs can have. Baal does not have these.
And wave 2 doll resurrections catch a lot of people off guard.
@@zhulza 2nd wave has magic immunes which can suck if you dont have a good merc and you're weak
you're having a lot of trouble articulating. Baal launches a projectile at an arch, and does stage++; stage 1 - first wave, 2 - second wave etc when the projectile has a timer on it, it destroys itself and spawns the wave when the timer reaches its limit. The projectile, however, is not a persistent entity, like a living monster or unopened loot container, therefore when the zone is unloaded, the projectile is NOT saved into memory, so it is de-spawned, along with its timer, but stage++; has already happened. That's it. Next part to explain is the timing and the dipping, how the unload check works isn't as precise as it could be, all entities in memory are put through a foreach() loop and checked if they are in an unloaded zone, but this isn't multithreaded - since multithreading wasn't really a known thing back then. Kind of like how bugged items in a while() loop are a result of the game engine preventing an infinite loop and cancelling the loop after 7 runs, the game engine takes that foreach loop and splits it into separate tasks and puts them into the priority list for the CPU as a separate thing, to prevent game stalling, so - though it happens very quickly, it happens WAY slower than it *should* happen. This means what you need to do is make sure baal is close enough to the player when HE comes up in the foreach cycling but the projectile is not. This means two things for timing: ONE) the LESS entities thee are (if you kill everything and clear the corpses) the more consistent the timing will be, *BUT* the MORE entities there are (the more enemies are left alive in loaded zones) the bigger window of time you have between "dipping" into baal and exitting the zone - so if you are getting good at it, the less enemies the better, but if you are new and relying on luck, the more enemies the better. You may even be able to write a quick plugin or even a cheat-engine script to monitor the bit of memory that's being used to evaluate the entity being checked (a pointer to an address, an offset from that address will give the monster/entity name) but it will probably not help, since it should still be flashing by at about 30 entities per second. Would be interesting to see, and may help when practicing the kill all monsters first method.
final note: this isn't a new bug, this bug was being used by bots back in ladder 2, you should try to contact some of the people that used to sell items back in like 2001/2002 - before duping there were several things like this used. Hell, in 2000/2001 before LoD dropped - if I remember right - there was a way with sorceress to spawn diablo without killing the all seal bosses. I'm not sure if it will work still or not, but basically all you did was attract up monsters from down below the main chamber, tele to seals and pop them all, then move them in to the center, enough monsters would overwhelm the check, then just kill the ghost seal boss (it's the fastest one to kill) and everything dies. Added benefit, if you use blizzard or frozen orb, you get a lot of chances at item drops that way too. I don't remember how reliably it could be reproduced, because the number of monsters needed is pretty high - I think the bot used the presence of a champion pack or something to determine if that was faster than killing all of them or not? Check some old botter forums on an archive or wayback machine or something.
Preach. These Johnny come latelies.
Came here to say this.
People would do this in public baal lobbies even.
Diablo seal skip too, not sure how that one worked but you could kill just diablo. It was either d2jsp or whatever the precursor was. At worst I think you had to do one seal.
When you're botting all day saving 20 sec per run is massive.
I'm kind of surprised that this baal trick seems to be obscure. Feels like everyone knew about it in the day.
20 years and d2 still surprises. Bartuc dropped me a vex yesterday so i dont think ill be skipping any baal wave. You may have already skipped mang song's when you made this video lol
You’re just too cruel by saying that. Stop
you are just being mean right now..
Savage
What a time to be alive\
My thoughts exactly
We’ve lived this all before. But yes it’s just as nostalgic the 2nd time around. :)
Insane. Love how we're still learning new things today. Incredible
Because the Town Portal keeps as a "dead person", can you use the TP to sit in the area, then at the right time place a NEW TP outside of his 2.5 screens to remove yourself from the zone?
I feel like that might make this an easier trick to pull off, since you wont have to "Dip" into a fairly arbitrary area, you could drop the TP willy-nilly, then get rid of it at a specific time.
Damn thats clever
This 20 year old game never ceases to amaze.... :) -- btw, what specifically was "top left exit"?
We found that your first couple of maps (including town exit) can link to a lot of other things later in the run...so it saves a lot of time!
Random moth at 2:20. Just cuz everyone should know Mr. Llama has an apartment absolutely INFESTED with MOTHS.
Llama, are the floor tiles in Throne of Destruction always the same? If so, I was trying to look where you were clicking when you got skips. Maybe try clicking on specific noticeably darker pixels as a reference point to see if it gets the skip?
I suspect that the game starts the wave summoning animation, and at that time marks the wave as summoned. But the player going away prevents the actual summoning at the end of the animation, and the success of the summoning is never checked in the code. I would recommend writing down timings of audio track starting, animation starting, their lengths, and then using clock to time the skip attempts to occur during the animation.
Maybe you could use MultiRes to see what's happening in the throne room while you try the skip. (Or other resolution mod)
had the same idea
I’m new to programming, but my thoughts are that it’s keeping track of how many of those “spawn bolts” he has cast, so if you unload the “spawn bolt” before it hits the ground, it gets deleted, but still logs that he’s casted it. It then checks if all enemies are gone, and surprise, they are, so it moves on to the next wave.
yeah that's what i think as well. basically when he launches the orb it counts as wave spawn, when the orb hits the ground the wave will actually appear. if the zone gets unloaded, everything except monsters, unopened chests, items, etc. will disappear. since the orb is none of those things, it will also disappear. just gotta time it so that the unloading happens while the orb is in the air.
I think it works this way: you trigger the yellow ball throwing sequence ( the ball that spawns the minions ), but you leave the zone before the ball turns into mobs.
2:11 youtube voice xD
Joke is on you
Baal summoned the waves in your towns
monkaS
If Baal summons skipped then...
Who was phone?
I've had this happen and never known what the hell was going on. Totally nuts. I wonder what potential time saves will be for hell runs.
Potential clarification to your theory as to "why" -
My best take is that if you cause Baal's area to "unload" just as the spawn trigger for the wave is occurring, the "unloaded" state prevents them from being spawned at all, and they don't automatically appear when the zone "loads" again because there's no longer an active spawn trigger to make the wave appear. The Baal coding checks against the presence of the previous wave, and so moves on to the next wave spawn trigger sequence. Rinse, repeat to keep using the "unloaded" state to break the spawn trigger. This glitch would likely work using the same distance logic on any scripted spawn triggers with a delay the player can react to (Baal's laugh, in this case).
My hunch says there is a counter for baal to tell which wave you are on (1,2,3,4,5,6). As soon as he finished the laugh, they increment the counter and then do the spawn animation. They play the spawn animation and you have a few frames before the game actually spawns the enemies (probably some fps based timer). What you are doing is getting the game to increment the wave counter and leave the area. The game normally saves what enemies are in far away zones but since the monsters were not created yet, it can't save them. Next time you walk in the throne room, the game does a check to see if any monsters are left in the area. Since none spawned and none are left, the game increments to the next wave, does the spawn animation, and so on and so on. In theory, if you can teleport fast enough this could also work. nycMaxim seems to remember teleporting and doing this.
Potential Diablo skip too, since he appears after a certain amount of time...?
@@legend36555 With Diablo non-spawning him probably will cause a softlock, as his death also will not happen.
This is amazing, it's like finding zero day exploits in software. Look forward to seeing some runs using this technique.🙂
What's the "Top Left Exit" thing Llama talks about (15:20)? I couldn't find anything about it.
WAIT. I know about that for like 10 years, never thought about communicating about it for speedrunning purposes. I've managed to do that to skip wave5 with my melee characters on solo playthroughs with moderate success (I'd say 1 times out of 2 I can do that). I did use a TP scroll to click which is in my opinion far more precise and easier to pull out than the walking thing. I think it works with teleport too.
May have discovered a new method of skipping waves. Not entirely sure if it has to do with the damage dealt by my abilities but I’m pretty sure it at least involves the abilities I’m using. Found it with a sorc running firewall at 39 and blaze at 28, both synergized with a maxed warmth and infinity merc. setting up massive traps with both spells seems to sometimes cause the wave to be skipped. Most consistently seems to skip the council waves. I think it’s because they try to spawn over like 10 stacks of blaze and 2 firewalls, but I’m not sure
I want to see a summoning salt video talking about the record progress on hell runs get some WR Mr Llama Id love to hear d2's wr history
Gonna have to show up to the next big speedrun marathon to show off all this new tech
wow that is crazy, super pumped about the future speedruns :D
So weird just the other day when I was doing Baal waves, I was thinking...how did they code this without any bugs or exploits. well here we are now lol.
I mean there was that old ass exploit of taking some waves off of the zone and teleporting back to spawn another wave but you couldn't use it to skip any ranged wave.
whole bugusing/exploiting stuff is honestly not really something i'd want to do myself, but it is certainly interesting and cool to watch. kinda like weaponized laws of nature or physics or something. utilizing inherent properties of the universe in which the game takes place in order to achieve victory.
What if you drop an item at the sweet spot and then click on it, your character will always walk to the right spot? Have full inventory so it stays there?
you'll pick it up and throw it behind you when your inv is full.
Yeah I feel like someone will discover a fool-proof lineup using a trick like this. I'm going to see what I can discover!
Drop 5 piles of 1 gold maybe
6:50 is this 2.5 screen spacing depending on resolution or is it a fixed value?
Such a cool discovery. This has great potential in races and speedrunning.
This question is going to be incredibly niche, but I'm going ask it out of curiosity. Once refined, would wave skipping to kill Baal now be as efficient for EXP from 98 - 99 as Chaos? I'm sure plenty would argue "but Baal's waves give experience". Under normal (and lower level) circumstances, yes! But since the change to experience at 1.10+, at level 98? Hardly anything gives EXP due to diminishing returns, especially being 10 levels over champion and elite packs. The only monsters which provide a reasonable amount are Diablo, Baal and Nihlathak (obviously in Hell only). Under the presumption that hardly anyone would want to grind out Nihlathak (even though he's the fastest to kill, it's also the most risky), so that leaves Diablo and Baal.
So let's look at each situation for perspective:
Act IV - Diablo.
- Teleport into Chaos Sanctuary (from River of Flame)
- Pop each seal on the 3 corresponding sides (and kill their champions)
- Kill Diablo (after a small wait while CS shakes and spawns them)
Potential benefits: Shrine spawn (best being experience) and more gear drops from champions (Though often limited to superuniques, which cannot drop most high end TCs, apart from I believe Arachnid's Mesh and Azurewrath because of their Qlvl).
Detriments: Varying density in CS could make some runs tough to maneuver overall and immunity coverage (depending on character).
Act V - Baal.
- Teleport to Throne of Destruction (let's just say for this example you've farmed an efficient map with very little teleporting required)
- Clear the throne room and likely the entrance.
- Wave skip through using the exploit mentioned in this video.
- Kill Baal in the Worldstone Chamber.
Potential benefits: Provided the throne room isn't overly cluttered, I would guess a minute would be enough to do all 5 skips, once mastered. Also staying on Players 3 would suffice, since the focus is Baal and his EXP in hell caps at players 3 (due to bugs/changes since 1.10).
Detriments: Cluttered throne room, as well as annoying monsters (Souls & Dolls), failing skips could be a varying time loss based on which wave and dealing with those immunity coverages (like hammerdins with act 2). Wave skips could also be monotonous to grind.
The only thing I don't recall is how much EXP Diablo gives VS Baal at 98. This might narrow the gap on which provides better EXP overall if you're on that grind to 99. Before all this, CS was efficient because you control the flow of how fast the run is, whereas Baal stalls the run by laughing between single champion waves, which again, at 98, provide almost nothing.
This could be an interesting experiment to determine which of the two would be the best EXP per hour. Might be better for some classes, might be worse. Keep in mind, this also applies to VERY few people, since I don't imagine many players actively grind to 99, especially if they were to try coordinate wave skipping on battlenet. Either way, this is an awesome discovery and can't wait for more!
I bet the spawn wave if like a spell and you basically step in to trigger it, but it has an instance of the spell between him tossing it and the spawn happening. So when you dip out as you move away the spell get's dematerialized since it's not a monster/player
Cool man, are you going to go for a new WR attempt? Is this only relevant for hell runs, or does it affect normal as well?
There's a lot of info/work that I and others have been posting to this forum here on this topic and will continue to post findings: www.speedrun.com/d2lod/thread/a0hcn
I remember people skipping waves in priv baal run games some 10-15 years ago. wasn't widespread knowledge.
but yeah leaving the zone fast enough seems to prevent them from spawning.
if I remember correctly they also used teleporting to do this, not walking back and forth across zone lines like how you are doing it.
anyways, have fun :)
You could skip em by luring them out off the zone but that is slow and it doesn't work for waves that don't follow you.
I don't believe you. 😁
@@legend36555 thats fine lol. there was a lot of d2 knowledge that wasn't well known lol.
I ran into this when I was doing baal runs with a pvp group that would regularly level their characters into the high high 90s. they would routinely skip wave 2 in baal runs to speed up their runs.
teleport in to activate the wave, teleport out to cancel the wave. they set the tp portal outside the zone for everyone to come in.
I remember someone explaining it to me on ventrillo since I never saw any other group do that before. Was not widespread knowledge, we were also not speedrunners but rather pvp players looking to grind faster so we can get back to pvp.
Mr Llama: genius d2 player
Also Mr Llama: doesn't know sound sliders
Sooooooo. with this exploit, a sub 55 minutes sorc may be possible, am I right? (current sorc norm any % is still like 59 minutes? totally lost track of WRs)
You could use map hack and scroll the screen to see what's happening. You may need two people in the game. One to look and one to trigger the spawn animation.
Never thought I'd see a glitchless category for Diablo II speed running, but I guess this is finally the time for it to be created.
Maybe this can be optimized to skip the entirety of act 2.
act 2 is my favorite act 2 in any diablo 2.
@@Wulfeheim94 i absolutely agree.
skip act 3 preferably
@@yerd1511 you cant tho. At act 3 you can run through the whole act anyway, it isnt like act 2 where it would be possible to skip desert and go straight to the palace.
@@amai2307 but how to skip it without meph wp?
When you get the skip it seems to cut off the very beginning of the laugh, it doesn't start out as loud and high pitched.
So... Is there enough room/time in ancients to try and do the same to their trigger? (Edit: probably not since it happens so fast/small delay.) Maybe there's things to be done with Diablo?
I'd like to know more about "top left exit", can someone link me info please?
Someone else stated this below. This is not remotely new. People have known about this for years on US East.
Can't wait for D2 speedruns to become one of those kinds of runs
Did you consider run/walk speed for this? Might some heroes be too slow/too fast to trigger properly?
I was wondering too, might be harder to pull off on real speed runs depending on class
In vanilla, every hero has the same speed. Ssin (or anybody with high enough FRW boots) can probably wait a frame if the speed is relevant.
What! COOL! That's an insane find after all these years!
Thats insane! This has just started a whole new race!!
when baal laughs, the music becomes quieter and at the end it becomes louder
I'm like 99% sure I've done this on battlenet, way back in the day. I never found the precise timing or positioning, but I did an awful lot of Baal runs, and I've definitely had missing waves a few times, and going in and out of the zone was a regular strategy when you weren't quite high level enough to handle it solidly.
couldn't you also skip waves with the necros confuse curse? or was that patched out?
crazy, baals laugh is actually useful
I'm surprised people are just now finding out about this one. It was a thing back when 1.13 Bnet was still going (before D3 days)
I have a sneaking suspicion that the level designer who created the throne-room _knew_ about the engine limits and designed it precisely the correct size to be able to pull this off. Makes me wonder if there isn't somewhere else that's designed to be abusable in this way... Though, I can't think of anything in a traditional speed-run off of the top of my head.
Holy moly. This is pretty crazy :o the implications are pretty huge. Big new WRs incoming? 😁
I knew this was up next after finding finding out the portal glitch!
Top left exit? Whats that?
Definitely better than kiting the wave out of the room!
Someone forgot to cut the two minutes before the YT intro, because they are sooooooooooo goood!
the 5 wave skip leads to laughing twice at the same time? That might be a good way to check that one. meaning a high and low pitch at the same time,
Tbh u can kill those waves faster than try to skip it, only may be useful for hammerdin on second wave for solo fights
Could you test with HD mod so that we could possibly see what's happening with Baal?
We gonna see some real mechanics introduced to the speedruns let's go!!!
What on earth dude???? Impressive
whats the top left thing hes talking about
My hammerdin loves to see that
I try to figure it out today. Well its very hard to get the skip. It seems you need to be in a exact frame when you reenter baal throne room. It works mostly when you reenter after 8 seconds of the end of baals laugh.
Would it be possible to buffer with movement skills like tele?
Wow this is huge! Great find by the community.
Massive for melee char speedrun!
before i watch, i like, Llama deserve dis
would this be easier to show with the resolution mod?
Maybe you can do something similar with the spawn of Diablo in Chaos Sanctuary?
This one comes straight out of previous one. I can hardly imagine why diablo 2 players back in the Day didn't found it. Pretty easy to understand if you know how the world is built
People will be successfully skipping all 5 waves every time pretty soon
4:26 classic Llama
I remember making "blubber baal" baal run bnet rooms back in the day.
I actually loved how few bugs were usable for D2 speedrunning. I think this one isn't too huge though really only a few minutes saved
A few minutes is a lot in a speed run.
Yeah, a few minutes is MASSIVE in the speed running community.
This is gonna break open the speed run again
I swear I remember people knowing about this even back in the old days. Lost knowledge, maybe? Could also just be my brain remembering bad.
'you just wanna like touch it.. I think I'm going a little too deep... It's gonna be tight' wait, what are we talking about here?
Wow, this is game changing.
You might get Mang Songs before 2025 now.
How did you do ok screen resolution?
The mang song was on the wave 5.
Can't wait till november 6 for project diablo 2 !!
could this be used for act 4 seals in anyway?
Schaefer purposely added this so it would be found by speed-runners 20 years later! Perfect game.
So there has to be a new speedrun category „glitchless“?
Yeah, for each of 84 current sub categories (7 classes*HC/SC*1/7/x players*normal/hell). So, there will be 168 categories. Removing "player count separation" someone suggested would not help a lot.
Pretty sure this isn't going to be allowed on MvS, right?
Is this diablo 2 or project diablo?
Also I have the best technique for tele from world stone keep. It all depends ds on what direction the waypoint is facing
It's d2, why would it be project diablo?
@@diabl2master the mod starting in nov6 closed beta right now
This changes *everything*
1:18 Owen Wilson, is that you?
@
MrLlamaSC You need to go in and out wait a little more outside, then go in and out. IN and OUT! IN and OUT! IN and OUT! IN and OUT! IN and OUT!
can't wait for a TAS of d2
How do you find it? How do you know that existing bug?
Soooo you gonna grab that world record real quick or???
Nice. Since it is possible that you could skip all of the waves you could save a bunch of time in your speed runs especially in normal speed runs.
This blows my mind. I love diablo 2.. perfect game