yea ginger wasnt even really insulting the guy (more like the public who say that.) its just the truth they were going for different things. ginger just talks like that i dont think it came from malace or arrogance
@@Kallogee No, I disagree. I totally interpreted Ginger Baker's comments as meaning he thought he was more accomplished a drummer than Bonham and Moon. On the other hand, he didn't say they were no good, either. He even admitted "Bonham had technique."
Ginger Baker always struck me as someone who wasn't good enough to be a highly regarded jazz drummer, so he went to rock and then spent the rest of his life reminding everyone that he was a jazz drummer and therefore better than everyone else.
@@eliborg If you like great jazz drumming I HIGHLY recommend you check out Wes Montgomery with the Wynton Kelly Trio on Smokin' At The Half Note. INCREDIBLE musicianship all around!
@@theblakex Certainly not an opinion. Straight up facts! Fucking horrible & sloppy. But who cares, he laughed to the bank during those times from of the cream records. I don’t have much appreciation for Bonham but he had his moments, and so did Keith. Ginger just flat out fucking sucked
Ginger Baker: Tasteful player, bitter person. As for being a jazz drummer, that would be Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, Tony Williams, Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, etc. If you start a criticism of someone and the sentence starts with "If they were still alive", just stop right there. For the record, my favorite drummer of all time is the great John Bonham. RIP
It's interesting to note that when the Who went into the studio to record the rock masterpiece Who's Next, John Bonham asked Keith Moon if he could watch the drumming sessions. Bonham had great respect for Moon's prodigious talent, yet despite being a close friend of Moon The Loon, Baker doesn't hesitate to take a shot at the most unique drummer in rock history. It's no surprise that Bonham and Moon frequently downplayed their drumming abilities whereas Baker constantly touted himself as the "World's Greatest Drummer."
@Timothy Farmer I do agree with you that ginger was a better musician, I just think that bonham had better grove and had more influential beats. I just hate how bitter ginger was. No matter who is better, ginger would just say he was the best, which is not the right thing to do, no matter if you actually are better.
@@Biggases777 Bonham like Plant were needlessly over the top loud. It was like they were trying to compete and drown out Page. For me at the end of the day Zeppelin was all about Page. It’s a great guitarists band. As for the Cream they were fantastic and very different to any other act. Probably the best example of the power trio and with Disraeli Gears psychedelic rock music. If you listen to the live section of Wheels of Fire you can tell they were a great live band.
Ginger Baker was a vicious sociopath who got a free pass to treat people like shit because he was lucky enough to land in a short lived band with two other massive talents.
Jimmy Page defending Bonzo: I was a bit disappointed by that. His criticism was that Bonham didn't swing. I was like, “Oh, Ginger. That's the only thing that's undeniable about Bonham.” I thought that was stupid. That was a really silly thing of him to say.
Bonzo's feel is what set him apart from ordinary pedestrian drummers like Ginger Baker. Listen to "How Many More Times" - there is definite swing to Bonham's playing and Baker couldn't come close to matching it.
@@robpelick7460 Yeah its not really "swing" like jazz drummers play, but more a deeper, subconscious musical intuition of where to place notes subtly before and after the beat and push and pull the temp that gave their drum tracks that 'it" factor. As technically proficient as Baker was i dont really get that from when i listen to him. Charlie watts also has that invisible "it" factor even thought hes not technical at all
It gets back to drummers being great for their bands. Bonham was great for Zeppelin. Moon was great for the Who and Baker was great for Cream. Could Ginger play Achilles Last Stand and a blistering up tempo version of The Song Remains the Same? Probably not, nor could Moon. But could Bonham sound like Moon in Young Man Blues Live at Leeds? Probably not. Could Bonham or Moon play Ginger's parts in Cream songs? I think so. I think Ginger's playing was great but I think Bonham or Moon could copy it. But I don't think Ginger could play their parts. I don't believe there is a "best" drummer. It all depends on the band and the music.
@@MrKeefrichards Bonham probably would have picked it up if he had got interested... the man was a freak of nature! It is like asking could Jimi Hendrix have played like Paco de lucia?? Yes, he probably would have matched him had he got interested!
@@MrKeefrichards I like a Ginger Baker a lot... smoothest for a drummer!!! But the swing and groove he talks about... he shouldn't have pulled down Bonham after the man is dead! If Bonham would have got down to it he would've redefined wotvr genre or drumming Ginger Baker was into it!! Bonham died young and wild... had he matured and mellowed down a bit... he would have done it all!!
@Timothy Farmer who gives a fuck about African drummers, this is rock music. The more complicated drumming is, it ruins the rhythm of the song, that’s more for other drummers to marvel at. I’ve played guitar my entire life and I’ve always laughed when people think Yngwie Malmsteen is the best guitar player because of all that flashy stuff he does but the guy can’t write a good song that the majority of people enjoy listening to. Ginger Baker couldn’t write a good song to save his life, he could technically drum his ass off but Eric Clapton is the only reason people know who Ginger Baker is.
Clapton's "tut tut" response to Moon and Bonham still gives me a chuckle for some reason...Almost like he's politely saying "Oh, don't be an idiot!" Lol
The first Cream song I ever heard was I Feel Free, I remember hearing a tamborine and nothing else. The first Led Zeppelin song I ever heard was Black Dog, I was scared at how violent the drums sounded. The first Who song I ever I ever heard was Won't Get Fooled Again, it sounded like a lunatic with drumsticks. I've gotten aquatinted with Ginger Baker's work, but he just doesn't excite me the way Bonham and Moon did.
Agreed. Baker's work with Cream was probably his best, but he could never match Bonham or even Moon (before he burned out). I still remember Elvin Jones' brutal put down of Baker after listening to his solo on the Blind Faith LP: "Nothing happening. They should make him (Baker) an astronaut and send him into space." LOL
@@robpelick7460 Moon? Give me a break. He’s the most overrated drummer in rock history. All theatrics and very little technique. Even John Entwhistle admitted he couldn’t keep time worth a crap, the first job of any drummer. You can make a good argument about Bonham (though I personally think Baker is a notch higher), but not Moon.
He's right. Bonham isn't anywhere near Ginger. Bonham is 1billion times better, more influential, more dedicated (playing sick and collapsing on stage) and left a dominating legacy.
John Bonham is the THE greatest rock drummer of all time. Nobody else had the unique combination of Sound, Groove, technical ability, dynamics, power and sensibility. He knew when to get on top and when to lay back. His drumming was more about feel than perfection. He had that incredible right foot and don't forget about his hi-hat work and those sick fills, that are often never mentioned (overlooked). He remains the All Around perfect drummer for rock. He could have played in a Funk band or a Metal band just the same. He was extraordinary
@@mthomas1973 "that depends on what drummer you ask" That's true, ask some good ones' I'm quite sure they will concur, It's not just a case of "Led Zep are my favourite band, so the drummer must be the best"
@@peejay6930 You sound like one of those idiots that thinks Bonham couldn't swing, that he was just decent. I can bet you out of 100 random rock drummers Bonham will be on top of the list for his Sound and Style alone, not to mention the influence he had on future players.
@@zackmccrea4731 Bill saw the documentary and mentioned this scene on his podcast a few times over the years. He's got nothing but respect for both and he's also an amateur drummer himself.
He's also right. And Clapton backed him up. Bonham couldn't play half the complex rhythms that Baker played Same went for Moon. Both were amateurs in comparison
No such thing as "the greatest" each drummer has their own style that fit the band they were in, or are in. Ginger is/ was threatened by Bonham,moon. He didn't have to be, he was brilliant 👍🏻
You cant compare Cream with Led Zep. Just because they sold more and got more success doesnt mean that Cream was any lesser. Remember that Cream plowed the grounds that Led Zep took off from. The Cream didnt have the same backing as ZepLed and the scene was totally new when they started out. Just ask the roadie who worked with both bands..
I find Ginger baker a really really great drummer.... infact he in many ways had so much in him that we didn't get to hear! I just love him in cream! I find Bonham's playing heavy and he sort of filled it all up with every bit of it... every zep member was the lead hero in the band! But nobody can replicate Bonham and he certainly had a lot of groove... purely on potential, Bonham was way greater than Ginger Baker or Keith Moon or Mitch Marsh or Ringo.... but in Zeppelin he went the zeppelin route-- he was just 32 when he died! Had he played more for other bands and lived longer, we could have seen the full range!
I understand both their backgrounds, and their backgrounds vs talent perfectly fit her comment. Baker had the education. Bonham had the natural born genius.
Baker said that Bonham couldn't swing a sack of shit...I guess he never listened Fool in the rain!!! Clapton and Baker were always envy that Zeppelin were way more famous and successful than them!!!
Clapton was the most acclaimed and famous guitarist of the 1960s apart from Jimi Hendrix. George Harrison, Keith Richards, and John Lennon of course were more famous., but not virtuosos. Zeppelin sold much more than Clapton, and could lend him money! but were less wealthy than the Beatles (I guess).
Of those that you mentioned, I'd have to say Gadd based on a few things. Gadd has his own tremendous feel & pocket much like the other drummers listed do BUT Gadd is also more varied as a drummer. His resume of who he's played with is much more varied than most. From crafting the fantastic 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover linear drum pattern with Paul Simon to his brilliant playing with Chick Corea & his astonishing solo on Steely Dan's track Aja. The man's been Claptons drummer for many years now as well. As influential and much more famous as Peart, Bonham, Moon, Baker etc are, my pick goes to Steve Gadd.
Long-time drummer here. Genuine request: Someone please point me in the direction of albums/videos showcasing Ginger Baker's playing which made Eric Clapton so enthuse about Baker's "musical capabilities" and totally dismiss John Bonham out of hand. Big fan of Bonham, Neil Peart, Stewart Copeland, Simon Phillips, Billy Cobham, Steve Gadd and many other great players. Baker must have passed me by.
Agreed... I can name one iconic, influential and easily recognizable Bonham beat after another ... I can't think of much more from Ginger than what he did on White Room with Cream...
Bonham was one of the GOAT (and most successful) rock drummers. Why tf did he need to swing, Ginger?? Like the drum part for Sunshine of Your Love was so complex?
A bigger difference in what makes Bonham better then Ginger, Bonham wasn’t so full of himself. Hands down Bonham was far greater then other so called drummers.
Ginger Baker,John Bonham and my favorite Keith Moon were all great drummers.Very different technique though from each other.Ginger Baker tarnished his legacy with his angry old man attitude.As a musician/drummer he should have respect for the other drummers especially the caliber of drummers he is being compared to.
Ginger's drumming sounded like a rickety bird falling down a staircase. He swung like a rusty gate. Bonham had swing for days. All the feel in the world.
RIP Ginger Baker (August 19, 1939 - October 6, 2019), aged 80 RIP Charlie Watts (June 2, 1941 - August 24, 2021), aged 80 RIP Keith Moon (August 23, 1946 - September 7, 1978), aged 32 RIP John Bonham (May 31, 1948 - September 25, 1980), aged 32 You will be remembered as legends.
Ginger says that bonham couldn’t swing, but really bonham most definitely can swing, better than baker. I like ginger and I like his jazz influenced style, but Bonham can out drum baker for sure.
deffo. I like baker as a jazz influenced rock drummer - but as a jazz drummer he was very average. Because of this he was a bitter person as he wanted to be known as a jazz drummer.
If you know anything about music , you know John Paul Jones is a multi instrumentalist and a master musician . That being said he said that He enjoyed playing with Bonham because “ he COULD swing like a bastard “. Baker is flippant about Bonhams playing because he couldn’t keep his shit together long enough to achieve the same accolades. That’s too bad cause he truly was a great and inventive drummer. If you asked him , he would tell you that too.
@@AndyBaylor I wasn't suggesting that Bonham was playing a swing beat on Fool in the Rain. I was using "swing" loosely, like making the song groove like hell, in other words. That's how the term has always been used amongst drummers, generally speaking. But yes, FitR is certainly a shuffle - an incredible one :)
Baker spaced from jazz to afrobeat, he was one of the few 60's-70's drummers with a profound knowledge of rudiments. Cream was just a small part of his career, he did incredible things with Fela Kuti, Baker Gurvitz Army and Masters of Reality. A prick for sure but a badass musician.
I remember when I was 13 (1984) My older sister had Cream Wheels on Fire, I sat down and listen to :Born under a bad sign: Thought the guitarist was great, the drummer kept it groovy and I thought it was cool. Then I remember couple weeks later digging through my older sisters album collection and seeing this cover of the Hindenburg Blimp erupting in flames, I was amazed, didn't even play the album yet. My sister walked in saw me staring at the album cover and said "Play the last song on side two, it's the best rock blues song you will hear." I played it and was scared of that riff and how this young blond hair dude was screaming about having 7 kids and another on the way...." I sat there wide eye by the drumming and how the guitarist and drummer seem to be battling each other. I was hooked I laughed at the silly Cream album and knew that Led Zeppelin was the band for me. BTW that my first introduction to Led Zeppelin was How many more times. wow!
Jazz players have such an inferiority complex about rock music, and their egos are ridiculously overbearing. This hurt Ginger. If he had embraced rock music he’d have made countless iconic songs. His drumming on White Room is enough to inspire anyone to pick up the sticks. Instead, he constantly battled with Bruce, denied Cream was ever a rock band, only referred to himself as a Jazz player, and left a lot to be desired. All that said, still the greatest drummer i’ve heard.
totally love his full pelt drumming { and timbre } in for example the high flying rock flurries in sunshine of your love and crossroads royal albert hall farewell concert
0:30 I think what Ginger Baker was saying is that Bonham and Moon were pounders, and they were. Neither had any stick technique nor dynamics. Bonham and Moon were great for the groups they were in, and the ways they completed their sound.
Neil Peart is an incredible drummer, one of the best, he can play anything. But he plays very straight and on the meter. To most people that's desirable, but Ginger could fuck with time and put on this particular lag that was just so fucken cool. It wasn't about his chops it was about his feel. To people that don't understand that, they'd call it "sloppy". It's intentional, it's feel, it's genius. Charlie Watts was the same, as was John Densmore - crucially underrated musicians
@@jzac77 Your post doesn’t make sense. You refer to the late Neil Peart in the present tense and Charlie Watts and John Densmore who are both still alive and playing drums in the past tense
I love Ginger Baker’s style for the same reason I love Ringo Starr’s. Both drummers didn’t just bang the drums, they were musicians, they played to the song, without overplaying and filling in spots with a little spark where they needed to. Plus, both had great swing, Ringo was a master of the shuffle.
I honestly think he was just pissed that Zep went on to become the biggest rock band ever. Meanwhile, him and his bandmates couldnt be in a room for more then 3 minutes without hurling insults at one another.
This whole documentary was A grade ass kissing exhibition. Saying Moon couldn't swing, despite his origins as a rhythm & blues drummer and the majority of songs on The Who's My Generation LP from '65 being pure jazzy swing tunes. As for what Clapton said, not sure how much ear and sense of harmony Ginger has when a minute into any of his solos I'm fuckin half asleep...
Like I said, pure ass kissing. First off, that African drummer thing is anecdotal and even if it wasn't it's just subjective. Newsflash, folks in Africa weren't exactly known for playing Ludwig and Zildjian in the old days... Second, the master himself Elvin Jones listened to Moon and Baker side by side in an interview; _applauded_ Keith, and totally slammed Ginger. I guess you think he's not qualified to judge drummers either? Please go buy yourself a pair of ears. Maybe a brain too while you're at it.
That's the thing I hate about music documentaries. The ass kissing from various biased interviewees. And they always love to put down the person's peers to make the subject look better.
6 месяцев назад
0:42 Ginger was lucky to be part of Cream, otherwise he'd been totally forgotten.
Ginger Baker and Charlie Watts were both primarily jazz drummers. Charlie famously said that he didn't like rock and roll and that he just played drums in Mick and Keith's band. Keith on Bonham's heavy-handed drumming: "He put the led (like pencil lead) in Led Zeppelin"
Ask any general rock music fan to name 5 or 10 rock drummers....many will name Bonham, Moon, Peart, Ringo, Dave Grohl, Watts, etc.....hell, some will even say Phil Collins, Alex Van Halen, Lars Ulrich,Tommy Lee, Peter Criss, etc. - NO ONE will ever mention Baker.
I believe Ginger understood that listening to music is a talent. It rings true. Not everyone can have talent, if everyone did the word would mean something different. It makes sense as well by looking at how much of popular music is truely horrible. Comsumerism has created advertising as our culture and we are all less than what we should be. No wonder he turned to Olive farming. Opinions are are like assholes, i don't consider Ginger Baker's words opinion.
Bitter old man. I probably would be too after seeing Led Zeppelin rise to the top largely because of Bonham’s unmistakable sound. Baker was just good enough to qualify as a flash-in-the-pan musician. Bingham is something entirely different!
Ginger was a great musician! His comments here sound very bitter..feels he isn’t getting the credit he deserves..sick of all the accolades for Bonham and Moon. Bonham always showed Ginger respect!! Would Ginger be talking like this if Moon or Bonham were alive?? Probably not!!! Ginger’s comment that Bonham couldn’t swing …just downright ridiculous. There is nothing more unappealing than an artist bragging about themselves..history will tell us all we need to know!!
Ginger was a bitter old fool. Here's the thing...Ginger was great. He deserves his props, but his dismissivness of Bonham proves he was simply bitter and jealous. Bonham absolutely could swing, had great technique. Bonham is widely regarded as a basher and he certainly did play loud, but that's what much of Zep required. Bonham was a much more versatile drummer than what he got credit for. And I think many folks (esp critics) simply thought of Zeppelin as some loud (which they were) bashers and screamers. As for the Clapton clip, please...Clapton is without question one of the most overrated guitarists of that era, or any for that matter. What he did early in his career was important and groundbreaking, but he simply gave that up and became a traditionalist. And incredibly boring as a guitar player. Page was infinitely more talented and versatile. JPJ was/is one of the most underrated musicians of that era and Plant was a fantastic blue eyed soul singer that basically gave the template for just about every frontman that followed. Zeppelin was better is every way which leads me to my final point and most important... Zeppelin was incredibly successful and changed the leverage that bands had over venues and promoters. They were the first to shift the power balance and were the first to make serious money. There are interviews out there for Pete Townsend (another bitter one, also) that talks about how they would come home for touring America and would have made virtually no money. And I think is the most important angle. Many of those groups were majorly Jealous of Zeppelin. There have been some bitter comments by Townsend and Richards to name a few. I really think that was a major factor in some of these guys not 'liking' Zep...I don't think it had near as much to do with the music.
You are in Love. I don’t scoff at that. It’s a wonderful feeling with a band. It sounds like Ginger Baker was close to being a psychopath. Apparently he is possibly the best British drummer of that era. This doesn’t mean he gives balanced opinions. The thing is, the greatest bands are much much better than the sum of their individual parts. It’s one of the beautiful things about teams, the greatest bands - The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, BM and the Wailers, Fleetwood MAC etc. etc. Are all teams that would have gotten not that far as individuals. Surely you agree? I’m wondering whether you write the above from a parallel universe where the Beatles didn’t exist, as the obviously could have raked in cash touring. As for Townsend he is 99% negative emotions - resentment and jealousy (having read his autobiography). He actually says on RUclips somewhere that He can’t tolerate Led Zep as at one point they were selling so many more records than the Who. At leat he is honest. Who’s Next though is an Amazing album. Not sure I agree with you about Clapton. People LOVED him as the highest in London until Hendrix came along and showed him how God would play a guitar. Have you heard ‘White Room’ - Clapton is a tasteful guitarist. A virtuoso . Keith Richards is not humble but he is honest. He doesn’t like Zep that much. The Stones are not heavy rock. He’s another one who is not that respectful.
The Diana Clone Movie don’t disagree much w what your saying. I didn’t address the Beatles as they certainly could have been a beast on the road had they wanted to do that. Not sure that makes my point invalid. As for Clapton, agree he was tasteful. And his early work was great which explains his adoration. My point was that when he made the decision to stop moving forward and became a blues traditionalist, he became very boring, IMO. Doesn’t mean I think he sucks but I think really wasted his talent, to a degree. So I don’t think we disagree much.
Sometimes brutal honesty is necessary. But yes, Ginger Baker was a few notches above Bonham. And even more notches above Moon. ruclips.net/video/scn28K46prc/видео.html
Ginger was pretty average on the drums( kinda sloppy). He believes he was a jazz drum yet cream were far from jazz. To say Bonham couldn’t swing was a insult.
I'l just say this. Bonham, Moon , Peart & Baker are all great drummers. Everyone has their favorites. My favorite is Bonham, but that doesn't mean that i think all other drummers are untalented assholes. It just means that i like Bonham's style the best, but i think they are all great. I know all you parents out there who have multiple children love them all, but you can't honestly say that you love them all equally. There's always one that you prefer. Before i forget, honorable mentions for Ringo Starr, Roger Taylor, Alex Van Halen, and i"ll even give a shout out to Peter Criss(please don't destroy me for that). I always liked the original KISS band. As for this video, it's upsetting to hear Ginger sounding so bitter and cruel. To call the public stupid was a real slap in the face.
Ginger's biggest problem was that he was a very unpleasant man. That's why people rate the phenomenally talented Moon and Bonham above him, because they were funny and humble guys.
Bonham didn't swing, true.
He fuckin GROOVED.
Bonzo had swing down in perfection.
yea ginger wasnt even really insulting the guy (more like the public who say that.) its just the truth they were going for different things. ginger just talks like that i dont think it came from malace or arrogance
@@waynepayne864 now that i happened to watch it again i agree. hes talking about being different, not about whos better doing what they do
@@Kallogee No, I disagree. I totally interpreted Ginger Baker's comments as meaning he thought he was more accomplished a drummer than Bonham and Moon. On the other hand, he didn't say they were no good, either. He even admitted "Bonham had technique."
Not only were all the members of Zeppelin masters of their craft, all of them are genuine and humble guys too.
They have a lot to be humble about.
Plant is not so humble;) He said a lot of bad things on other British bands....
Jonesy was the only sane one.
You missed the whole point dude 🤣
@@lexdunn4160 this is probably the most unpopular opinion I’ve ever heard
Ginger Baker always struck me as someone who wasn't good enough to be a highly regarded jazz drummer, so he went to rock and then spent the rest of his life reminding everyone that he was a jazz drummer and therefore better than everyone else.
Man’s couldn’t even come close to the stuff Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, Roy Haynes and so many other cats from the 60s were playing m
@@eliborg If you like great jazz drumming I HIGHLY recommend you check out Wes Montgomery with the Wynton Kelly Trio on Smokin' At The Half Note. INCREDIBLE musicianship all around!
@@SimpleManGuitars1973 I mean the rhythm section consists of Paul Chambers and Jimmy Cobb, can’t go wrong with those two
@@SimpleManGuitars1973 Yes
Sounds accurate. He makes Bonham sound ordinary but the history of rock says different.
Hypothetically speaking: Bonham sitting in with Cream would’ve probably been great. Baker sitting in w Zep would’ve probably been a disaster.
Literally everyone who's ever met or known Baker thinks he's an utter tool factory.
Incredibly sloppy drummer as well
@@End-Result Incredibly ignorant opinion
@@theblakex Certainly not an opinion. Straight up facts! Fucking horrible & sloppy. But who cares, he laughed to the bank during those times from of the cream records. I don’t have much appreciation for Bonham but he had his moments, and so did Keith. Ginger just flat out fucking sucked
No one thinks he’s more of a tool than his own son Kofi
Yeah he just seemed like an angry guy.
Ginger Baker: Tasteful player, bitter person. As for being a jazz drummer, that would be Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, Tony Williams, Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, etc. If you start a criticism of someone and the sentence starts with "If they were still alive", just stop right there. For the record, my favorite drummer of all time is the great John Bonham. RIP
Bonham could out drum ginger most definitely, and could swing like the devil
Idiots 🤣🤣🤣
@Bru Rred you actually sound a little like Baker yourself
Buddy Rich had hands that Baker couldn't touch.
It's interesting to note that when the Who went into the studio to record the rock masterpiece Who's Next, John Bonham asked Keith Moon if he could watch the drumming sessions. Bonham had great respect for Moon's prodigious talent, yet despite being a close friend of Moon The Loon, Baker doesn't hesitate to take a shot at the most unique drummer in rock history. It's no surprise that Bonham and Moon frequently downplayed their drumming abilities whereas Baker constantly touted himself as the "World's Greatest Drummer."
Well said!!
Yup, that’s what makes bonham and moon better drummers and people than baker. Very well said!
@Timothy Farmer I do agree with you that ginger was a better musician, I just think that bonham had better grove and had more influential beats. I just hate how bitter ginger was. No matter who is better, ginger would just say he was the best, which is not the right thing to do, no matter if you actually are better.
Cream of the crop.
@@Biggases777 Bonham like Plant were needlessly over the top loud. It was like they were trying to compete and drown out Page. For me at the end of the day Zeppelin was all about Page. It’s a great guitarists band. As for the Cream they were fantastic and very different to any other act. Probably the best example of the power trio and with Disraeli Gears psychedelic rock music. If you listen to the live section of Wheels of Fire you can tell they were a great live band.
Ginger Baker was a vicious sociopath who got a free pass to treat people like shit because he was lucky enough to land in a short lived band with two other massive talents.
Hmm. I think you have something there.
@@mobrules29 agreed
@Timothy Farmer doesn't mean jack shit my man.
A free pass? lol he doesn't give a shit, he would've been the same grumpy man even if he weren't a famous musician.
What about Mitch Mitchell, one of the most influential rock drummers of all time. Ginger probably didn't like him either.😆
I thought the same thing
Jimmy Page defending Bonzo: I was a bit disappointed by that. His criticism was that Bonham didn't swing. I was like, “Oh, Ginger. That's the only thing that's undeniable about Bonham.” I thought that was stupid. That was a really silly thing of him to say.
Bonzo's feel is what set him apart from ordinary pedestrian drummers like Ginger Baker. Listen to "How Many More Times" - there is definite swing to Bonham's playing and Baker couldn't come close to matching it.
@@robpelick7460 nonsense.
@@robpelick7460 Yeah its not really "swing" like jazz drummers play, but more a deeper, subconscious musical intuition of where to place notes subtly before and after the beat and push and pull the temp that gave their drum tracks that 'it" factor. As technically proficient as Baker was i dont really get that from when i listen to him. Charlie watts also has that invisible "it" factor even thought hes not technical at all
It gets back to drummers being great for their bands. Bonham was great for Zeppelin. Moon was great for the Who and Baker was great for Cream. Could Ginger play Achilles Last Stand and a blistering up tempo version of The Song Remains the Same? Probably not, nor could Moon. But could Bonham sound like Moon in Young Man Blues Live at Leeds? Probably not. Could Bonham or Moon play Ginger's parts in Cream songs? I think so. I think Ginger's playing was great but I think Bonham or Moon could copy it. But I don't think Ginger could play their parts. I don't believe there is a "best" drummer. It all depends on the band and the music.
could moon or bonham play gingers parts in the baker gurvits albums most definately not
@@MrKeefrichards Bonham probably would have picked it up if he had got interested... the man was a freak of nature!
It is like asking could Jimi Hendrix have played like Paco de lucia?? Yes, he probably would have matched him had he got interested!
@@MrKeefrichards I like a Ginger Baker a lot... smoothest for a drummer!!! But the swing and groove he talks about... he shouldn't have pulled down Bonham after the man is dead! If Bonham would have got down to it he would've redefined wotvr genre or drumming Ginger Baker was into it!! Bonham died young and wild... had he matured and mellowed down a bit... he would have done it all!!
@@MrKeefrichards And yet Bonham made more money and kids today still know Bonham’s name. Ginger died a broke mean old man.
I think you don't know a fucking thing about playing drums.
Sad to hear Baker putting down the Greatest Rock Drummer of All Time. I'm talking about John Bonham, of course
There's no Bonham without Baker
@Timothy Farmer who gives a fuck about African drummers, this is rock music. The more complicated drumming is, it ruins the rhythm of the song, that’s more for other drummers to marvel at. I’ve played guitar my entire life and I’ve always laughed when people think Yngwie Malmsteen is the best guitar player because of all that flashy stuff he does but the guy can’t write a good song that the majority of people enjoy listening to. Ginger Baker couldn’t write a good song to save his life, he could technically drum his ass off but Eric Clapton is the only reason people know who Ginger Baker is.
@@ChristopherAdam42 who gives a fuck about african drummers, this is rock music? who gives a fuck about basketball i'm trying to talk about sports
@@ChristopherAdam42 i have played in bands my entire life and you are talking utter crap
Zero Class All Ego !!!!!
Clapton's "tut tut" response to Moon and Bonham still gives me a chuckle for some reason...Almost like he's politely saying "Oh, don't be an idiot!" Lol
Oh its so English and direct.
And yet Bonham made more money partied harder and kids today still know Bonham’s name. Ginger died a broke mean old man.
@@Panic42000 At least he got to be an old man. Better to be mean than die young.
@@jdemarco if you say so!
@@Panic42000 I'm living proof...lol
I had to look this up thanks to Bill burr 😂
Same
Bill burr isn't funny
The first Cream song I ever heard was I Feel Free, I remember hearing a tamborine and nothing else.
The first Led Zeppelin song I ever heard was Black Dog, I was scared at how violent the drums sounded.
The first Who song I ever I ever heard was Won't Get Fooled Again, it sounded like a lunatic with drumsticks.
I've gotten aquatinted with Ginger Baker's work, but he just doesn't excite me the way Bonham and Moon did.
Do what you like- Blind Faith. Easily some of Gingers best drumming. a whole section of the song dedicated to a drum solo
The whole Disraeli Gears album is nothing but masterpiece drumming, which set the stage for every rock drummer after
Agreed. Baker's work with Cream was probably his best, but he could never match Bonham or even Moon (before he burned out). I still remember Elvin Jones' brutal put down of Baker after listening to his solo on the Blind Faith LP: "Nothing happening. They should make him (Baker) an astronaut and send him into space." LOL
@@robpelick7460 Moon? Give me a break. He’s the most overrated drummer in rock history. All theatrics and very little technique. Even John Entwhistle admitted he couldn’t keep time worth a crap, the first job of any drummer.
You can make a good argument about Bonham (though I personally think Baker is a notch higher), but not Moon.
Baker doesn’t have shit on bonham
Listen to Jim Fox of the James Gang...”walk away”. He was another unknown, underrated drummer.
Amen
What the ego Mr. Baker
Clapton shows ignorance here. He probably doesn't even know about Bonham's constant nods to Max Roach when soloing.
How the fuck is Clapton ignorant???
The best blues guitar player of all time.
I'll take his opinion over yours
Good drummer horrible human being. He couldn’t hold a candle to Bonham has has never forgotten it even after Bonzos passing
He's right. Bonham isn't anywhere near Ginger. Bonham is 1billion times better, more influential, more dedicated (playing sick and collapsing on stage) and left a dominating legacy.
John Bonham is the THE greatest rock drummer of all time.
Nobody else had the unique combination of Sound, Groove, technical ability, dynamics, power and sensibility.
He knew when to get on top and when to lay back. His drumming was more about feel than perfection.
He had that incredible right foot and don't forget about his hi-hat work and those sick fills, that are often never mentioned (overlooked).
He remains the All Around perfect drummer for rock. He could have played in a Funk band or a Metal band just the same.
He was extraordinary
To be fair Bonham was a good drummer, but nowhere near Baker's level, ask a drummer
@@peejay6930 that depends on what drummer you ask.
Not u
@@mthomas1973 "that depends on what drummer you ask"
That's true, ask some good ones' I'm quite sure they will concur, It's not just a case of "Led Zep are my favourite band, so the drummer must be the best"
@@peejay6930 You sound like one of those idiots that thinks Bonham couldn't swing, that he was just decent.
I can bet you out of 100 random rock drummers Bonham will be on top of the list for his Sound and Style alone, not to mention the influence he had on future players.
@@mthomas1973 Bonham was a decent drummer, it's just that Baker was better..... how is that my fault?
Bill Burr brought me here
Same!!
How does bill burr have anything to do with this?
@@zackmccrea4731 Bill saw the documentary and mentioned this scene on his podcast a few times over the years. He's got nothing but respect for both and he's also an amateur drummer himself.
Great drummers mentioned in this video like Ginger Baker, John Bonham, Keith Moon, and Princess Diana.
They were all good at making a lot of noise 👍🏻
Interestingly, later in the same interview Baker was asked which drummers he admired and he said John Bonham.
LOL
Ginger is always good for a laugh.
He's also right.
And Clapton backed him up.
Bonham couldn't play half the complex rhythms that Baker played
Same went for Moon.
Both were amateurs in comparison
@@dcmastermindfirst9418 So, there's no need to compare them then. They were in different bands and had different styles.
No such thing as "the greatest" each drummer has their own style that fit the band they were in, or are in. Ginger is/ was threatened by Bonham,moon. He didn't have to be, he was brilliant 👍🏻
Ginger Baker was an angry young, middle aged and old man, he was his own worst enemy as he seemed to hate everybody. Great drummer though.
Sucks that such great talent was bestowed on a waste of flesh and bone
You cant compare Cream with Led Zep. Just because they sold more and got more success doesnt mean that Cream was any lesser. Remember that Cream plowed the grounds that Led Zep took off from. The Cream didnt have the same backing as ZepLed and the scene was totally new when they started out. Just ask the roadie who worked with both bands..
*Baker used two bass drums , John used one and could easily sound like 2*
Baker didn’t play two kick drums for speed, he played them for two different sounds.
Baker played what bonham dreamed about playing.
No comparison
@@bigmoney4685 bonham played what bonham wanted,
End of discussion
@@Biggases777 what he wanted to play was inferior to baker.
Baker outlived bonham and outplayed him.
End of 😂😂😂😂😂
@@bigmoney4685 Baker outlived him. Never outplayed him. Baker probably died crying knowing he would never be better than Thor (Bonzo) or Moonie 🤣🤣
'He couldn't swing a sack of shit'. That is the greatest piece of English language I have ever heard.
0:48 lol Clapton's feelings about zep
Bitterness.
I love all three of them, make that four I was forgetting Peart!
Chad Smith aint no slouch either for that matter.
And Charlie Watts. Not just saying that because he just passed on. Baker, Moon, Bonzo, Watts - they are my Mt. Rushmore.
Rush man
I find Ginger baker a really really great drummer.... infact he in many ways had so much in him that we didn't get to hear! I just love him in cream!
I find Bonham's playing heavy and he sort of filled it all up with every bit of it... every zep member was the lead hero in the band! But nobody can replicate Bonham and he certainly had a lot of groove... purely on potential, Bonham was way greater than Ginger Baker or Keith Moon or Mitch Marsh or Ringo.... but in Zeppelin he went the zeppelin route-- he was just 32 when he died! Had he played more for other bands and lived longer, we could have seen the full range!
John Bonham swung the hammers of the gods... Ginger who?
GINGER BAKER the original classic rock drummer
@@theblakex just because Ginger is older that doesn't make him better. Ginger isn't known for shit!
BAKER, GINGER BAKER
Baker is like 100x better
guys, don't sink to ginger's level just because he didn't want to give bonham the credit he deserved. they were both great drummers.
Baker was a master. However, to say that Bonham couldn’t swing a sack of shit is just inaccurate.
If Baker was a master, Bonham was a genius!
I understand both their backgrounds, and their backgrounds vs talent perfectly fit her comment. Baker had the education. Bonham had the natural born genius.
The truth is that when Bonzo arrived, no one had heard this in rock and he made a lot of shade to his famous colleagues .
Some have never digested it.
Baker said that Bonham couldn't swing a sack of shit...I guess he never listened Fool in the rain!!! Clapton and Baker were always envy that Zeppelin were way more famous and successful than them!!!
Clapton was the most acclaimed and famous guitarist of the 1960s apart from Jimi Hendrix. George Harrison, Keith Richards, and John Lennon of course were more famous., but not virtuosos.
Zeppelin sold much more than Clapton, and could lend him money! but were less wealthy than the Beatles (I guess).
Bonham, Peart, Mitchell, Gadd, Baker, etc…. So so many and all so good. We can’t really say who’s best.
Yes we can. It’s bonham
Of those that you mentioned, I'd have to say Gadd based on a few things. Gadd has his own tremendous feel & pocket much like the other drummers listed do BUT Gadd is also more varied as a drummer. His resume of who he's played with is much more varied than most. From crafting the fantastic 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover linear drum pattern with Paul Simon to his brilliant playing with Chick Corea & his astonishing solo on Steely Dan's track Aja. The man's been Claptons drummer for many years now as well. As influential and much more famous as Peart, Bonham, Moon, Baker etc are, my pick goes to Steve Gadd.
@@liamfitzdrums I don’t disagree. He is very good.
Bonham and Moon both shit on Baker 😂
has anyone questioned the clone of our diana yet?
Diana clearly thought Phil Collins was the best drummer in the world, or Ringo
Ginger Baker got by but he wasn't on Bonham's level and I think he new it that's why he talked bad about Bonham
Long-time drummer here. Genuine request: Someone please point me in the direction of albums/videos showcasing Ginger Baker's playing which made Eric Clapton so enthuse about Baker's "musical capabilities" and totally dismiss John Bonham out of hand.
Big fan of Bonham, Neil Peart, Stewart Copeland, Simon Phillips, Billy Cobham, Steve Gadd and many other great players. Baker must have passed me by.
Agreed... I can name one iconic, influential and easily recognizable Bonham beat after another ... I can't think of much more from Ginger than what he did on White Room with Cream...
Bonham was one of the GOAT (and most successful) rock drummers. Why tf did he need to swing, Ginger??
Like the drum part for Sunshine of Your Love was so complex?
Bonzo could swing. Like a magician.
I think Clapton's comments speak volumes...
They do!
You're smarter than most of this comment section.
Baker was a fully accomplished musician.
Bonzo and Moon were both amateurs
A bigger difference in what makes Bonham better then Ginger, Bonham wasn’t so full of himself. Hands down Bonham was far greater then other so called drummers.
Ginger Baker,John Bonham and my favorite Keith Moon were all great drummers.Very different technique though from each other.Ginger Baker tarnished his legacy with his angry old man attitude.As a musician/drummer he should have respect for the other drummers especially the caliber of drummers he is being compared to.
He lived as a jealous young fool, died as a Jealous old fool,
Ginger's drumming sounded like a rickety bird falling down a staircase. He swung like a rusty gate.
Bonham had swing for days. All the feel in the world.
The cut from chad to ginger is hilarious
RIP Ginger Baker (August 19, 1939 - October 6, 2019), aged 80
RIP Charlie Watts (June 2, 1941 - August 24, 2021), aged 80
RIP Keith Moon (August 23, 1946 - September 7, 1978), aged 32
RIP John Bonham (May 31, 1948 - September 25, 1980), aged 32
You will be remembered as legends.
There’s a clip of John Bonham’s son playing funk when he was 6 years old. So John Bonham couldn’t play swing? Weird.
I think Jason Bonham at 6yrs old was better than baker
@@scottlandry4325 Lol
Man talk about, "People don't talk about me"😤. Boi you never mentioned Mitch Mitchell. He would run circles all over his ass.
0:47 Love Eric's reaction.
Whatever you say Ginge, I'll take Bonzo over you ANY time. X
Ginger was a much better drummer and actually composed.
Bonham buries Baker.....
rubbish, and ginger lived a lot longer
@@MrKeefrichards Ive lived a lot longer than Bonzo too....am I the better drummer?
Ginger says that bonham couldn’t swing, but really bonham most definitely can swing, better than baker. I like ginger and I like his jazz influenced style, but Bonham can out drum baker for sure.
deffo. I like baker as a jazz influenced rock drummer - but as a jazz drummer he was very average.
Because of this he was a bitter person as he wanted to be known as a jazz drummer.
If you know anything about music , you know John Paul Jones is a multi instrumentalist and a master musician . That being said he said that He enjoyed playing with Bonham because “ he COULD swing like a bastard “. Baker is flippant about Bonhams playing because he couldn’t keep his shit together long enough to achieve the same accolades. That’s too bad cause he truly was a great and inventive drummer. If you asked him , he would tell you that too.
Bonham can't swing?? Listen to "Fool in the rain" and tell me that. Baker was a hack, as far as I'm concerned.
Listen to the drums on ANY Cream song and say Baker was a hack
@@theblakex I have and can't count the number of them!
@@theblakex Baker was a wanker.
That’s a shuffle. Incredible, but still shuffle.
@@AndyBaylor I wasn't suggesting that Bonham was playing a swing beat on Fool in the Rain. I was using "swing" loosely, like making the song groove like hell, in other words. That's how the term has always been used amongst drummers, generally speaking. But yes, FitR is certainly a shuffle - an incredible one :)
Ginger was a complete musician who just happened to have chosen the drums. Amazing touch and sense of rhythm.
Bonham could play anything baker could play, faster and louder and with more swing and groove, old man ginger never heard fool in the rain i guess lol
Baker spaced from jazz to afrobeat, he was one of the few 60's-70's drummers with a profound knowledge of rudiments. Cream was just a small part of his career, he did incredible things with Fela Kuti, Baker Gurvitz Army and Masters of Reality. A prick for sure but a badass musician.
I remember when I was 13 (1984) My older sister had Cream Wheels on Fire, I sat down and listen to :Born under a bad sign: Thought the guitarist was great, the drummer kept it groovy and I thought it was cool. Then I remember couple weeks later digging through my older sisters album collection and seeing this cover of the Hindenburg Blimp erupting in flames, I was amazed, didn't even play the album yet. My sister walked in saw me staring at the album cover and said "Play the last song on side two, it's the best rock blues song you will hear." I played it and was scared of that riff and how this young blond hair dude was screaming about having 7 kids and another on the way...." I sat there wide eye by the drumming and how the guitarist and drummer seem to be battling each other. I was hooked I laughed at the silly Cream album and knew that Led Zeppelin was the band for me.
BTW that my first introduction to Led Zeppelin was How many more times. wow!
"How Many More Times" was the best way for Zep to end their debut album. Every time I hear it I feel like I'm listening to it for the first time.
Jazz players have such an inferiority complex about rock music, and their egos are ridiculously overbearing. This hurt Ginger. If he had embraced rock music he’d have made countless iconic songs. His drumming on White Room is enough to inspire anyone to pick up the sticks.
Instead, he constantly battled with Bruce, denied Cream was ever a rock band, only referred to himself as a Jazz player, and left a lot to be desired.
All that said, still the greatest drummer i’ve heard.
Any time I'm listening to Zep, all that I can think about is that Bonham wasn't a "fully formed musician." I mean, what else is there? Right Ginger?
totally love his full pelt drumming { and timbre } in for example the high flying rock flurries in sunshine of your love and crossroads royal albert hall farewell concert
This is hillarious. We have jazzy rock and rocky rock musicians battling over who is the least degenerate.
0:30 I think what Ginger Baker was saying is that Bonham and Moon were pounders, and they were. Neither had any stick technique nor dynamics. Bonham and Moon were great for the groups they were in, and the ways they completed their sound.
Wonder what Ginger thought of Neil Peart or if he ever commented on his playing.
Probablly that he was a piece if shhhhttt.... That is what he was thinking, be sure of that man. He was a full blown heavy evil narc.
@@hetjamesfield4473 that’s what I love about Cream. They had arrogance. The Cream of the crop
Probably the same thing he thought of Bonham, good technique but not on his level.
Neil Peart is an incredible drummer, one of the best, he can play anything. But he plays very straight and on the meter. To most people that's desirable, but Ginger could fuck with time and put on this particular lag that was just so fucken cool. It wasn't about his chops it was about his feel. To people that don't understand that, they'd call it "sloppy". It's intentional, it's feel, it's genius. Charlie Watts was the same, as was John Densmore - crucially underrated musicians
@@jzac77 Your post doesn’t make sense. You refer to the late Neil Peart in the present tense and Charlie Watts and John Densmore who are both still alive and playing drums in the past tense
I love Ginger Baker’s style for the same reason I love Ringo Starr’s. Both drummers didn’t just bang the drums, they were musicians, they played to the song, without overplaying and filling in spots with a little spark where they needed to. Plus, both had great swing, Ringo was a master of the shuffle.
So did bonzo.
Quincy Jones would have a different opinion on that.
@@ryukenhondaraiden252 I'm curious what you mean. Did Quincy Jones think Ringo or Ginger weren't very good?
@@SimpleManGuitars1973 yeah he stated in an interview a few years ago that ringo aint shit.
@@ryukenhondaraiden252 Man. Even Danny Carrey from Tool thought Ringo was awesome.
Moonie is the GOAT
Moon is really sloppy but it fits his personality perfectly. I can’t imagine how hard it is to play with him.
Like Charlie Watts, Ginger was a jazz drummer who just wound up in a classic rock band and became famous
Charlie could swing beautifully.
I honestly think he was just pissed that Zep went on to become the biggest rock band ever. Meanwhile, him and his bandmates couldnt be in a room for more then 3 minutes without hurling insults at one another.
This whole documentary was A grade ass kissing exhibition. Saying Moon couldn't swing, despite his origins as a rhythm & blues drummer and the majority of songs on The Who's My Generation LP from '65 being pure jazzy swing tunes. As for what Clapton said, not sure how much ear and sense of harmony Ginger has when a minute into any of his solos I'm fuckin half asleep...
Like I said, pure ass kissing. First off, that African drummer thing is anecdotal and even if it wasn't it's just subjective. Newsflash, folks in Africa weren't exactly known for playing Ludwig and Zildjian in the old days... Second, the master himself Elvin Jones listened to Moon and Baker side by side in an interview; _applauded_ Keith, and totally slammed Ginger. I guess you think he's not qualified to judge drummers either?
Please go buy yourself a pair of ears. Maybe a brain too while you're at it.
@@mu-soguy and Elvin was supposedly one of Baker’s influences lmao
That's the thing I hate about music documentaries. The ass kissing from various biased interviewees. And they always love to put down the person's peers to make the subject look better.
0:42 Ginger was lucky to be part of Cream, otherwise he'd been totally forgotten.
From which documentary is this?
EDIT: found it! It's from "Beware of Mr. Baker" released in 2012.
Ginger Baker and Charlie Watts were both primarily jazz drummers. Charlie famously said that he didn't like rock and roll and that he just played drums in Mick and Keith's band. Keith on Bonham's heavy-handed drumming: "He put the led (like pencil lead) in Led Zeppelin"
Ginger says Tom Brady is a terrible quarterback
Ask any general rock music fan to name 5 or 10 rock drummers....many will name Bonham, Moon, Peart, Ringo, Dave Grohl, Watts, etc.....hell, some will even say Phil Collins, Alex Van Halen, Lars Ulrich,Tommy Lee, Peter Criss, etc. - NO ONE will ever mention Baker.
Cuz Ginger was a jazz drummer
Bonham made the drums sound like a thunderstorm. Ginger hit the drums like a soft wind. THAT is the difference between them. Bonham all day.
Baker was algo really good. A piece of shit, but a great drummer
@Bru Rred ha you used that same insult on my comment “you’re delusional and clearly hard of hearing”
I believe Ginger understood that listening to music is a talent. It rings true. Not everyone can have talent, if everyone did the word would mean something different. It makes sense as well by looking at how much of popular music is truely horrible. Comsumerism has created advertising as our culture and we are all less than what we should be. No wonder he turned to Olive farming. Opinions are are like assholes, i don't consider Ginger Baker's words opinion.
Calling listeners idiots is very endearing.
Modest as well....they buried Ginger in 3 caskets, one for him and two for his ego...
Yeah ginger, that’s why I keep coming back to zeppelin and not cream right?
Fully formed musician commentary wow from ole Slowhand
Most of the rock bands at that time hated led zeppelin but they had respect for everyone...
Rip charlie watts... another great jazz drummer
Bitter old man. I probably would be too after seeing Led Zeppelin rise to the top largely because of Bonham’s unmistakable sound. Baker was just good enough to qualify as a flash-in-the-pan musician. Bingham is something entirely different!
Ginger was a great musician!
His comments here sound very bitter..feels he isn’t getting the credit he deserves..sick of all the accolades for Bonham and Moon.
Bonham always showed Ginger respect!!
Would Ginger be talking like this if Moon or Bonham were alive?? Probably not!!!
Ginger’s comment that Bonham couldn’t swing …just downright ridiculous. There is nothing more unappealing than an artist bragging about themselves..history will tell us all we need to know!!
Ginger was a bitter old fool.
Here's the thing...Ginger was great. He deserves his props, but his dismissivness of Bonham proves he was simply bitter and jealous. Bonham absolutely could swing, had great technique. Bonham is widely regarded as a basher and he certainly did play loud, but that's what much of Zep required. Bonham was a much more versatile drummer than what he got credit for. And I think many folks (esp critics) simply thought of Zeppelin as some loud (which they were) bashers and screamers.
As for the Clapton clip, please...Clapton is without question one of the most overrated guitarists of that era, or any for that matter. What he did early in his career was important and groundbreaking, but he simply gave that up and became a traditionalist. And incredibly boring as a guitar player. Page was infinitely more talented and versatile. JPJ was/is one of the most underrated musicians of that era and Plant was a fantastic blue eyed soul singer that basically gave the template for just about every frontman that followed. Zeppelin was better is every way which leads me to my final point and most important...
Zeppelin was incredibly successful and changed the leverage that bands had over venues and promoters. They were the first to shift the power balance and were the first to make serious money. There are interviews out there for Pete Townsend (another bitter one, also) that talks about how they would come home for touring America and would have made virtually no money. And I think is the most important angle. Many of those groups were majorly Jealous of Zeppelin. There have been some bitter comments by Townsend and Richards to name a few.
I really think that was a major factor in some of these guys not 'liking' Zep...I don't think it had near as much to do with the music.
You are in Love. I don’t scoff at that. It’s a wonderful feeling with a band. It sounds like Ginger Baker was close to being a psychopath. Apparently he is possibly the best British drummer of that era. This doesn’t mean he gives balanced opinions.
The thing is, the greatest bands are much much better than the sum of their individual parts. It’s one of the beautiful things about teams, the greatest bands - The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, BM and the Wailers, Fleetwood MAC etc. etc. Are all teams that would have gotten not that far as individuals. Surely you agree?
I’m wondering whether you write the above from a parallel universe where the Beatles didn’t exist, as the obviously could have raked in cash touring. As for Townsend he is 99% negative emotions - resentment and jealousy (having read his autobiography). He actually says on RUclips somewhere that He can’t tolerate Led Zep as at one point they were selling so many more records than the Who. At leat he is honest. Who’s Next though is an Amazing album.
Not sure I agree with you about Clapton. People LOVED him as the highest in London until Hendrix came along and showed him how God would play a guitar. Have you heard ‘White Room’ - Clapton is a tasteful guitarist. A virtuoso .
Keith Richards is not humble but he is honest. He doesn’t like Zep that much. The Stones are not heavy rock. He’s another one who is not that respectful.
The Diana Clone Movie don’t disagree much w what your saying. I didn’t address the Beatles as they certainly could have been a beast on the road had they wanted to do that. Not sure that makes my point invalid.
As for Clapton, agree he was tasteful. And his early work was great which explains his adoration. My point was that when he made the decision to stop moving forward and became a blues traditionalist, he became very boring, IMO. Doesn’t mean I think he sucks but I think really wasted his talent, to a degree.
So I don’t think we disagree much.
Few talk about Richie Blackmore, but he was a much better guitar player than Clapton.
Meg Shimatsu agree completely
Bonham was one of the very best Rock 'n' Roll drummers ever! Whoever say's he wasn't, is just lying or doesn't know what is talking about.
Bonham cant swing?!! You fucking kidding me??
Funniest f**kin comment ever Lmao
Sometimes brutal honesty is necessary. But yes, Ginger Baker was a few notches above Bonham. And even more notches above Moon.
ruclips.net/video/scn28K46prc/видео.html
He was a fuckin genius ❤❤
Ginger Baker is absolutely correct about one thing. When he says the general public is dumb.
Of course both of us are not included in that statement are we ;)
He was an elitist.
Durban misses you Mr baker
Ginger was pretty average on the drums( kinda sloppy). He believes he was a jazz drum yet cream were far from jazz. To say Bonham couldn’t swing was a insult.
I'l just say this. Bonham, Moon , Peart & Baker are all great drummers. Everyone has their favorites. My favorite is Bonham, but that doesn't mean that i think all other drummers are untalented assholes. It just means that i like Bonham's style the best, but i think they are all great. I know all you parents out there who have multiple children love them all, but you can't honestly say that you love them all equally. There's always one that you prefer. Before i forget, honorable mentions for Ringo Starr, Roger Taylor, Alex Van Halen, and i"ll even give a shout out to Peter Criss(please don't destroy me for that). I always liked the original KISS band. As for this video, it's upsetting to hear Ginger sounding so bitter and cruel. To call the public stupid was a real slap in the face.
Lol
Bonham , best by far.
Ginger's biggest problem was that he was a very unpleasant man. That's why people rate the phenomenally talented Moon and Bonham above him, because they were funny and humble guys.
The CC here are hilarious...
Bonham and Moon couldint swing a sac of shit lol what drum solo made Ginger popular ....... cricket sound
Pure trash, mate.
Toad
What he's saying is abrasive, but true. He's a jazz drummer, those guys were amazing, but they weren't jazz drummers. Clapton agrees.