I'm confident that Spotify will never offer lossless audio because providers and artists demand higher royalty rates for that, and Spotify's CEO and board seem solely focused on profit, with little regard for artists or audio quality. So yes, bye bye !
How is Tidal offering lossless when available for $10/month? The best quality Spotify offers is awful for what they charge. The root problem with Spotify is that they have thrown away too much money on bad podcast deals. For example, $20 million dollars signing Prince Harry and Meghan to a podcast deal that nobody watched.
profit! they make a net loses in the hundreds of millions each year, and I think that will some way to explain why it hasn't materialised. At this point I feel at some point spotify will be bought up. There value is solely there algorithm.
99% of consumers don't care about sound quality. They listen on cheap, subpar consumer hardware like cheap earbuds and headphones and everything is bluetooth. Most consumers don't even know what "bitrate" means let alone any of the other technical aspects of audio. Streaming is the bane of both audio and video quality. 4K UHD blu rays and HD audio physical media is far superior to video or audio streamed today. We will own nothing and we will hate it....
This pretty much sums it up. My sister and her family only have a soundbar in the living room for the TV. And for music it is Spotify. And Spotify alone. I was able to offer them a free month of Qobuz during the Summer. But nope. They stuck with their Spotify. And didn't even test Qobuz. I'm pretty much the only one in my circle of family and friends who has invested in a nice setup or two. And have a big collection of audio CD's, high-res audio purchases, DVD and (4k) BluRay movies and series. Next to streaming. The rest. Well Spotify and Netflix. But that's about it. Nice hifi in the home? Nah those Bluetooth earbuds connected to their iPhones are apparently the next best thing...
Yes, we will own nothing and be happy. Well, that's what the globalists want for us. Most people I know, regardless of how much their hi-fi equipment costs, treat music as background noise.
I largely agree with you, however, in the US especially, a lot of people do actually have premium devices capable of reproducing lossless quality audio and high bitrate video in an appreciably superior way to compressed lossy formats (iPhones, Samsung phones, air pods pros, Sonos speakers (tbh any wi-fi audio device), Chromecast audio and speakers, "chi-fi" kit). A lot of people now have access to fiber internet, or at least higher bandwidth copper internet. For sure some people do not have these devices or the access and for whom it doesn't matter. Most people don't care to "listen" or "watch" intently to catch the differences, and most mainstream media outlets do not advertise their media is of a much lower quality than what's available on CDs or Blu-ray, so people do not know what they're missing. However, now that the devices and infrastructure to enjoy lossless digital media has become mainstream, it's worth educating peers and consumers about getting the most out of our gear and demanding better from our digital gatekeepers (mostly media companies). The truth is that it's MUCH easier and cheaper for companies to run low res services and charge money as if it's the best and keep consumers ignorant. Competition, in this case, can make the end products for consumers much better. A company like qobuz is successful for this reason. People just need to know
Yes, it's naive to believe people wouldn't turn to piracy if costs went up that much. That being said, I am willing to pay more for premium lossless streaming. Today I'm using Tidal. Even though I went to the same high school as Daniel Ek, and know several people who has worked at Spotify over the years... that made me want to use Spotify. I've now given up on them ever adding lossless streaming
In developing countries, like here in Brazil, it would be unsustainable to have access to any of these services and piracy would be reborn with full force.
70% Spotify user have not a premium subscription, that is NOT a music streamnig Service, is an advertising company that use music as a medium to distribute advertising space
This is stupid, every music radio broadcaster works the same way. When I wasn't a premium subscriber the amount of ads was even less than any normal radio station and you wouldn't have annoying speakers, traffic news and you could even choose what to listen.
And also why their average pay per stream is lower, because they don’t make that much money from ads. On subscriptions they likely pay the exact same rate as every other streaming service
Bandcamp and Qobuz are basically the only reliable places online to buy digital, high fidelity, lossless audio. Obviously most people aren't going to hear the difference between CD quality and a 192Khz, 24-bit, WAV/AIFF album. But I am finding that sometimes there aren't even widely available CDs anymore.
The best reason to quit Spotify is the terrible royalties they give artists. I've seen my royalty rate drop constantly. I've had songs where they never even paid me for the streams it got. Spotify is not a music company.
@@andygilbert1877It has gone down 50% since Spotify launched. The free for all platform doesn’t work, so Spotify has made the majority of artists pay for that failure.
The point is, the free or low cost access can be used for a brief window, then if you want to continue listening you pay a reasonable amount for the content. Instead you continue listening very low cost which is unsustainable for the artist that created the content.
Very glad you make the point that there are no "good guys" when it comes to streaming. No streaming service is good for musicians or for music in the long term.
I honestly found that to be a weak statement when Tidal literally pays out 3 times what Spotify and Apple pay while RUclips Music pays seemingly next to nothing.
@@Tech-nm1sx 3x what Spotify pays? Truly they are an example to all. Oh! Wait though…turns out that 3x next-to-FA is still pitiful and still leaves a bigger slice of the money with the corporation than it deserves and too little with artists. That is a very weak argument based on a relative comparison.
Personally I buy CDs, but one of life’s pleasures is having my kids play me their latest favourite music via Spotify connect, sharing the experience of listening together. It goes the other way too, I play them music and my eldest knows CDs sound better than streaming on my system.
Yeah. That's true! I don't believe going back to physical media will happen in any significant way... normal users don't care to sacrifice the convenience of streaming... and in particular cheap streaming
@@hannie1301and I can’t really blame them. Hell I collect and I still stream music. It’s where I find new artists, and if that artist blows my socks off, I buy their stuff. I wouldn’t have half the artists CDs and vinyls I do if it weren’t for streaming.
That's thing isn't it, while I am sympathetic to the fact artists don't get enough of the money the flip side is that there is no way a vast majority of music on spotify is financially viable. I'm absolutely not going to listen to Reggie Watts 3000 times, but I'm also unlikely to buy one of his CD's, If I and 3000 other people listen to it once the he will have made £15 for a CD that none of us would have purchased in the first place. It's always been this way, before streaming it was the record companies that were the gate keepers, a vast majority of artists never made life long money, but equally they never owned the manufacturing and advertising side.
Dont have to go back to physical media @hannie1301 Just have to give people the option to buy AND OWN digital albums/songs in a non-proprietary format. I know I'd happily buy that to support good artists. I'd rather buy a few albums worth of songs per month that I own forever and the money goes mostly to the artists, than pay for streaming which does none of those things. And artists would still be easily discoverable. This is 2025, not 1995.
My biggest annoyance with Spotify is their diversification into podcasts and audio books. The money and effort spent on anything other than music is wasted on me. Not ready to switch yet, but I am close.
Absolutely rightly said and done, as musician, recording artist and an audiophile i couldn't agree more, i hope more and more people realise where this is going and changes made accordingly, thank you👍
John. I am very glad that you have come to this situation. I quit Spotify a few years ago when I got frustrated with the crap. I buy as much vinyl as I may afford and downloads. Preach.
I just switched from Spotify to Tidal recently as well, primarily because of the downward trajectory of Spotify UI - it is horrendous, it is sluggish, it is a mess, and it just keeps getting worse by the day - Tidal's UI is much more elegant, I really enjoy it. I also have what I would call a half-decent stereo setup and I wanted to make the most of it with better resolution files. Only thing that's bugging me about Tidal is the inability to make custom playlist covers, I really enjoyed that feature on Spotify, and I enjoyed making my own covers to personalise my music library, I really hope they will integrate that feature someday soon
I have never used Spotify. I use Apple Music and Tidal to discover music and if I like something, I buy the vinyl album. I think that's the best way to support artists, just buy their music!
Spotify had been going on my nerves forever with announcing lossless-quality and then not delivering. I'm sticking with Tidal now, no matter if Spotify one day delivers or not.
In principle, I agree with the point in pricing being too cheap. On the other hand, I think that if all music streaming services were $50+ (USD) per month, there’d be a huge increase in people pirating music. Not at the scale of the Napster or Limewire or Kazaa days but I’d be willing to bet that it’d be significant enough for companies and artists to notice it in their payments.
I've said it once and I'll say it again. I use Spotify like I used to use FM radio. I listen to Spotify in the background and to explore new music. If I happen to especially like what I hear, I will attempt to purchase the music on CD or LP. I have no interest in better streaming or high rez files. I can't hear the difference.
Of course you could also use any of the other streaming services for that as well 😀 And you can't hear the difference? That is your actual experience, or do you assume so? 😂
This is the correct answer. My CD is then ripped to my music server. And while some may claim they hear a difference in audio quality between streaming services and be prepared to pay for it, those listening on apple ear pods, in their car, on their soundbar and so forth probably don't care. Spotify is good enough for the masses in that respect. Regarding their approach to paying artists or agents or maybe avoiding payment - well that's a whole other thing altogether. I am sure presenting shonky covers is something the artists might want to take up with Spotify on their own account if they feel ripped off in that respect.
@@ErwindeWit-v9u I've tried a few. In my case there was insufficient benefit to make it worth the financial commitment. Plus Spotify was just easier to navigate.
That Billie Eilish reference to her talking about Lossless audio is hilarious because her vinyl release of Hit Me Hard and Soft was strictly on recycled materials which received a ton of backlash for the poor audio quality.
In my case, I disagree with your view on pricing and content availability. Spotify is now a source of music discovery for many, and the days of blindly buying an LP are gone for me, given the hugely inflated cost of vinyl. During 2024, I purchased over 40 LPs after listening to the albums on Spotify. If I were then having to pay £50 per month to be able to discover the full music library or listen to albums on the move (I currently pay for premium Duo and also have Apple Music), I would cancel my subscription straight away, and my subsequent LP purchases would then drop drastically. I also buy gig tickets, even for lesser-known artists I found on Spotify. Neither the artist nor I are really benefiting here then. There’s probably a better balance to be struck.
Precisely. Why is the solution to increase exclusivity, and provide a worse product for a majority of consumers? The root cause is the royalty payment policy of the platform itself, so why punish the consumer whilst not benefiting the artist in any way? The fact that John funds his physical purchases through this channel is incredibly ironic. I commented on the same topic; I really hope he adresses the argument, because his take was really really poor.
Supporting the artists is why I buy most of my music on CD, usually from the bands website if possible, even if I listen to it via streaming services for quite a lot of the time (in my car and at work). As music lovers we need to ensure the people providing our pleasure can survive to make even more of what we love. Also allows me to burn it to my NAS as FLAC for use in my home audio systems so I know I'm getting best quality on my best listening devices.
I usually just go with Vinyl, DVD Audio, Blu-Ray pure audio, and SACD because of how those releases are mastered. The regular CDs are pretty mastered for cheap crappy earbuds, cheap crappy headphones, and cheap crappy non-audiophile car speakers
I just switched to Qobuz 2 days ago, the main issue I have with them though is there EXTREMELY SLOW DOWNLOADS, and how it will literally ONLY allow you to download while the app is open and even then they take FOREVER!!
Qobuz is WAY better. For me (classical; some jazz, blues, folk, world) it is almost perfect. Don’t need Connect, mainly use a WiiM Ultra these days, straight into my Arcam stereo amp or - sometimes - via my Audiolab DAC. Superb!
Well, inertia, the app was so much better than the concurrence for so much time.. that most people don't want to change it now, even for a better service
To be honest I think most people don’t know the majority of points that Darko makes in this. Especially things like the ghosts in the machine. Artists making $0.003 per stream etc. Like Darko says, people use it because it’s cheap and convenient which are most people’s priorities
The sound quality is an argument for getting rid of Spotify. The reason Spotify hasnt gone lossless is 99% don't know or care about lossless. Many use cheap Bluetooth earbuds that couldn't take advantage of lossless.
But even if you use fairly expensive headphones, most people simply wouldn't hear any difference between 320kbit/s and lossless, at least outside of extensive A/B testing which would still leave many not able to decide what they prefer. And that is with music that is mastered in a high quality way which isn't close to all. IMO there are premium features that would be more beneficial for most subscribers, like a cloud storage solution for your own music files, which is also something Spotify is lacking behind other services.
I am 73 years old I cannot hear the difference between 320 & higher, but the soundstage & imaging is still excellent on Spotify, I’ve been a serious listener since 1976.
Spotify 320 kbit/s is sufficient. I did a lot of blind tests and with anything above 128 kbit/s it was mostly guesswork for me to pick the compressed format. If you really want next level spatial audio (with dedicated speakers, no soundbar or headphone) is the way to go.
Hmm, for me (53 years old), the difference is obvious. Still, even if you can't hear the difference doesn't mean you couldn't choose something else.. Right?
Funny I tried to find one of the most popular songs of a Japanese artist (recently deceased) in Qobus yesterday & only found one cover version! Went to Spotify and there are multiple versions by her. Qobus generally satisfies my need to find new stuff. They have more stuff than I can ever listen to even I listen 24/7 for now on (57 years old) till I go back to dust. But I do look up east Asian music from yesteryears and most of the time can't find them in Qobus. Tidal fares better, Spotify even better. If you don't care the sound quality too much, I have been able to find just about any music I looked for in RUclips (the video channel). I was ready to drop Qobus for Spotify when they alledged to start CD quality streaming. But I have since given up on Spotify. They just wouldn't give a freaking confirmation up front one way or other. Til this day, I don't subscribe to Spotify.
My friend, not all countries have the same salaries as in Germany! Some people live for $500 or less per month, while most countries have an average income of $300 per person. What $50 a month are you talking about?
Man, I’m from Ukraine and my salary is 190$ as a teacher. So I used a family subscription on Apple Music, cause it’s cheap. Btw, Tidal don’t even work here anymore, only with vpn for some reasons
@@Tmp205 Tidal has the same price as Spotify. Qobuz is slightly more expensive. But it doesn't break the bank at all. I'm subscribed to both Qobuz and Tidal.
About the prices of services increasing substantially. That would be a serious mistake! In developing countries, like here in Brazil, it would be unsustainable to have access to any of these services and piracy would resurface with full force.
I've been subbed to them for 4 years straight now. Longest I have ever been subbed to a single streaming service. It's that good. About to renew for the 5th year at the end of the month. 😎
I just switched to Qobuz 2 days ago, the main issue I have with them though is there EXTREMELY SLOW DOWNLOADS, and how it will literally ONLY allow you to download while the app is open and even then they take FOREVER!!
I used to pay for spotify until the price went from $3 to $11 for my country. Apple music is still $3.29 so I’ll be using that for my everyday music and buying my favorites.
Like you, hearing about the Ghost musicians was the final straw for me, a few weeks ago I cancelled Spotify and have since begun using Apple Music instead.
I hear all the things you say and agree with many of them but I would really miss Spotify discover weekly. Who ever wrote the AI is a absolute genius and for me is worth the subscription on its own. I have discovered literally hundreds of tracks that I now love that I would never have come across any other way
Honestly I switched to Tidal and I think the daily discovery is actually better than spotify’s I’ve been so pleasantly surprised by all the cool artists I’ve got to listen to because of it
I love Spotify for my favourites podcasts availability, their search engine and new music proposals but my frustration about not delivering the promise and being silent about hi-res audio reached its peak. This video made me finally decide the moment to copy my playlist somewhere else. Thank you!
Nice to see Matthew Halsall in your tunes this time. I’m ending up in a very similar place to you John. I’m by no means an audiophile, largely because the top end of my hearing is wrecked and I have mild tinnitus from too many gigs, but I’ve ditched Spotify and gone with Tidal for streaming, then buy physical copies of the things I really like from Bandcamp, local record shops and record fairs. Spent Christmas dragging my 4000-ish CDs out of storage and ripping/cataloging them, so I’m currently going through a voyage of discovery with all the stuff I’d forgotten I even owned.
There are a few things that keeps me with Spotify... -An huge library of music in different musicstyles -Being able to use it via voice command in my car -being able to use my raspberry pi/hifiberry/libreelec setup as a spotify-connect device. High res audio could be fun on my raspberry setup, but when I'm outdoors and using a bt headphone or in my car with bt carkit it's really pointless to have a high res stream. Mind, I still have a cd-player in my car and that sounds awesome when I play a cd
Absolutely. I have both Tidal and Qobuz for Roon (Grimm MU2) and I find the libraries to be pretty much the the same for my tastes. Sometimes Tidal has albums Qobuz doesn't have and vice versa. I find Qobuz has more High Res versions of albums than Tidal. Both sound great but Qobuz may edge it..doubt i could tell in a blind test though and my system is very resolving. Also! Qobuz connect is on the way but you can use Chrome cast. Just my two cents.
There is no Apple connect. That alone makes it impossible for me to get. The majority of my music listening is taking advantage of spotify connect so that would be a huge pain.
The only reason i still have spotify is because i failed to convince the wife. There are a couple of kids music albums on spotify that tidal doesnt have.
Once Tidal went to high rez for just $11 a month…I said adios to Spotify. Once I listened to Low Roar on the Death Stranding soundtrack in 24 bit…I’ll never go back.
Alot and I mean ALOT of music is still using MQA, even if Tidal says it's "Master" quality. Qobuz & Apple Music are currently the only ones offering actual lossless streaming. I'm not sure what you are using to determine that it's actual 24 bit.
People never cared for sound quality on physical media or we would have SACD or Blu Ray Dolby Atmos everywhere. They didn't care for image quality or they wouldn't have chosen VHS. They chose porn. Music consumers today choose hip hip. They don't care how it sounds, only that other people can hear them playing it on their phone speaker.
Great video John. I also cancelled my Spotify subscription last year. As an audiophile I have been enjoying my Qobuz (great quality and downloads!) and Roon subscriptions for a few years now. I stream in addition to my CD collection, which I still buy every month and listen to with great pleasure every day. That should keep our music needs going...;-).
The Netflix comparison is flawed, there's not a single movie I've watched more than a handful of times and I'll gladly go a decade or more before watching them again. Music on the other hand?
Precisely. Also I would think it costs way more to make a movie compared to making an album. Just look at he end credits of a movie just to see how many people worked on it.
I’m 15 and a hifi nerd. Me and my dad share this hobby. I resently bought the new WiiM ultra and with That upgrade se changed from spotify to tidal. I sat and listend for hours comparing the two and it is really really night and day to my ears at least and i could nerver go back.
Same for me, the recent purchase of a WiiM Ultra prompted me to subscribe to Tidal as I wasn’t satisfied with Spotify’s sound quality on either of my home systems.
Bought a WiiM Ultra last week. It's my third streamer next to my Cambridge CXN V2 and a Bluesound Node X. It sounds really good for its price. Happy listening. 😀
Nice video, and you’ve summed up just about all the reasons I moved away from Spotify. Streaming music is too cheap-too good to be true, indeed. The reason I’m sticking with Qobuz, despite the (minor) gripes I have with it (as you mentioned), is its music- and artist-centric approach. One of the features I love most about Qobuz is the ability to easily explore music by labels. If I like an album, chances are the label has more fun stuff to offer. And wohoo! On Qobuz, I can go down that rabbit hole and just click play to listen to all albums released by the label. I haven’t yet found an easy way to do this on other platforms.
Agree-sure Qobuz is missing things but when I migrated my stuff from Spotify the success rate was 85% at the very lowest and when I started to dig into the misses I found many were actually there they just weren't hit for whatever reason so success is likely more in the 90s. Do I really need EVERYTHING on one platform? And the label rabbit hole is deep and magical!
Yes, musicians aren’t being paid enough for their new music….however, I’m old and have purchased every format going over the years - 45’s, LP’s, 8 tracks, cassettes, cds, SACDs, Blu Rays, DVDs etc etc., often having the same songs/albums on a number of formats - so for those older artists - I’ve more than paid my share to them!
I've had a Spotify account since 2012. I barely used it within the last decade. Aside from my indifference to streaming audio, another reason is a lot of my collection has rare and out of print music. Most of which cannot he found on Spotify - or any other streaming service, for that matter.
I have been very conflicted with Spotify for some time and have actually made the switch to Apple a couple of months ago. heers for all the great articles and vids over the past few years...much appreciated.
About time JD! Now here’s a thing, when Spotify was originally launched my company leapt at the opportunity to stream music around the office. The keen eared amongst us started to notice that the music that claimed to be by established artists, clearly was not. It became quite obvious that they were playing very clever cover versions in place of the real stuff. We imagined at the time that they had not received the rights at that point. Allegedly. And it is for that reason that Spotify has never darkened my desktop/mobile device. Well done for ditching the service.
I recently got a new asus WiFi 7 router. It’s fantastic. It fixed a major issue I had with airplay 2 streaming from my plex server. My music sounded very distorted from my iPhone to my pioneer lsx 305 receiver. My old router made airplay 2 sound bad . Now that I am on the new receiver it sounds great. It’s actually listenable now.
"If you're one of those ones who say I'm not an audiophile, I'm a music lover - YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE" Love it. I buy predominantly records, as often as possible through Bandcamp, I fully agree that artists I don't think are getting their fair share from most streaming services. I canceled Spotify during the Joe Rogan debacle and don't miss it. I don't agree with their ethos, they're money over artists / morality imho.
The cost of pretty much everything is up 2~3 times what it was 20 years ago, yet wages are only about 1.5 times what they were. (even the high paid careers) Yell at our bosses before suggesting we spend more of what little we're getting. You're either talking to a shrinking audience or totally out of touch.
I cancelled last yet after they lied to me along under the rouse of lossless music..."coming soon". Such BS. Sound quality of Spotify has always been sh*t. I had no idea they were creating Muzak.
Soundquality is fine. Babbling about high bitrates audio is BS. I have a Genelec studio monitor setup and Spotify sounds just as good as Apple music. That's just reality.
@@syntheee no, reality is that some people simply cant tell the difference, same way there are some people who cant see higher than 60hz on a monitor, my phone has a 120hz screen and she cant tell the difference between it and a 60hz screen, my dad is iffy on whether or not he can actually see 240hz on my monitor also same way some people cant tell the difference in taste of different whiskies, they just taste the malty-ness and the burn there is also the whole thing where some people are color blind hearing is even more delicate, but there are still a ton of people who cant really appreciate the tiny things, some people cant tell the difference between different amps, some cant really tell the difference between headphones (simply just that they do some a little different), some people are tone deaf, some think sound bars are perfectly fine when compared to a proper speaker setup
@@syntheee I can tell far more difference -- every time I compare the two -- between lossy and lossless streams than I can between CD quality and the various true Hi-Res tiers. There absolutely is a difference. Biggest thing I notice when going back to a Spotify stream is significantly reduced soundstage width and depth; the entire sound field, or cone of music coming at the listening position just shrinks in on itself. The clarity of details and tones in a Spotify stream has a course graininess not unlike that of the visual graininess of DVD when compared to Blu-Ray. You being unable to hear those differences might speak to the particulars of your hearing rather than any established "reality" you'd like to claim. Oh, and I'll take a stronger stance than John --> F**k Spotify!
@@syntheeeI'm not an audiophile, but I could differentiate how the high-end content of any given song drastically deteriorated when going from 320 kbps to 128 kbp. Can't say much about other technicalities. This was at the age of 14, with garbage audio gear. If you're struggling to tell the changes with much better equipment, maybe the fault is with you.
@@jihamiya5755 Yeah 320 to 128 you definitely can for sure, and I have the same sort of year and level of equipment when I could tell the difference. But Spotify's 320 OGG vs a FLAC file if you balance the volume to be as close to the same? I think some people think they are special enough to hear differences when realistically I find details that are there listening a bit higher on the lossless version and then I hear them on spotify on a quieter setting also. Still, just to squeeze the last few percent if it's there, I'm curating a FLAC collection atm myself
One thing I make sure to do - despite using streaming services when I'm portable - is purchase copies albums from artists I like. Even if they sit on my media server and I rarely listen to them.
Wow 😮 this doesn’t surprise me one bit, 100% agree. The interface is far too fussy, res is the worst out there, and to be fair now doesn’t offer any value for money compared to the rest
Hello Darko, Would it be possible for you to create a video conducting a blind AB test between Spotify and high-resolution audio files? It would be fascinating to see if you can consistently identify differences in sound quality-distinguishing between subpar and superb audio. This experiment could provide valuable insights into whether high-resolution audio truly makes a noticeable difference, both for you and your audience.
About a year and a half ago i switched to Tidal after being a life long Spotify user. my family still streams on Spotify and we have a Spotify family supscription so i still have it aswell. Recently i tried Spotify again on my pc after using Tidal for over a year, and oh my god. What have they done to the layout and design of the app?? ITS HORRENDOUS! Atleast my parents are paying the subscription because i would NOT pay for Spotify. Not when compared to Tidal.
Been using spotify for many years and out of curiosity i tried tidal 3 years ago when i got 3 months for just a small fee. I believe i have a competent setup and im not ashamed to say that i can't hear the difference between mp3 and lossless. I don't have gear that supports MQA though but i mean (i still can't hear the difference between lossless files on my computer compared to spotify's alleged 320kbps files) Setup: RME ADI 2 Dac fs(serves as dac and preamp) first version Rotel RB1090 power amplifier and LTS 3v-f2 (fullfrequency 3way floor standing speakers) I guess the margins ain't worth it for me as of now and that's fine even though i like the pursuit of better sound🤔
Listening to music is not like watching a movie though. We can listen to the same song multiple times everyday without issue especially if mixed in with other music.
Excellent vid. I cancelled Spotify during the Neil Young / Joni Mitchell walkout (which proved temporary) but I've only grown happier to have quit over the past few years amid the AI fake artist scandal and the
Cancelling Spotify was not easy decision. But the more news that comes out about how deceptive, dishonest and disingenuous the company is run, the better I feel. Apple Music's AirPlay capabilities to multiple sources, Hi-Res Lossless quality, higher royalty payouts and User Interface - especially on it's BEST UI with an iPad... just win. And the storage locker capability of storing my music that is NOT on streaming right with albums I only listen to on streams PLUS the ability to manipulate mp3 tags makes for a clear winner.
Be aware that you are NOT getting Hi-Res Lossless over AirPlay except under specific situations on a device using AirPlay 1 instead of the more common AirPlay 2. John has videos describing this. :)
Hi just had an unusual experience. Got a galaxy watch at Xmas. Was listening to my phone on Momentum 4s. My phone was dead so I switched to old mixes I'd saved on my watch but never listened. I'd used it to control media ib my phone but never streamed from it. I have an old Samsung s10 for work. When I switched to the watch the sound was a marked improvement even sound stage sounds wider. I've tried amazing music Spotify etc all sound better. Don't know what dac or dsp is going on but I approve. I thought it might be a subject for u never seen a video about watch audio. Keep up the good work your video got me thru bad times
Sorry to hear about your neck John. Not fun. Spotify also seems to be filling their playlists with AI generated Muzak, especially jazz. That’s even worse than real musicians playing bland crap. I’m amazed that so many musicians push them so much.
Interestingly, one of Lou Reed's first jobs was recording anonymous muzak to go on compilations for Pickwick Records. Kind of the 1960's version of Spotify's ghost music.
Enjoy your channel, but I'd be stunned if you can tell the difference between the lossless vs the Ogg Vorbis in a blind test. So far as I've seen, Spotify has the best discovery options, continually introducing me to new music I wouldn't have otherwise encountered. I listen on Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 4s and have no complaints about sound quality.
Tested Qobuz vs Spotify on a decent hifi setup - in blind a/b was surprised that 9/10 times my wife, mum and dad preferred the Qobuz sound. None of them are audiophiles.
its a great feature of course. but when the track you put on your playlist disapear overnight for no reason you think again.... i dont care about the discovery option if my playlist is destroying itself without notice. i can tell i lost some tracks because of the number of track on the playlist decrease overtime and i know the order of tracks but if i didn't memorized the track name its lost FOR EVER. Spotify can delete a song from its servers overnight if they want. and they do often ! because we rely too much on third party services we forgot to backup and thats why i will do the same mistake. i Download every music i want to listen. because of streaming service i'v got a new phobia, the fear of loosing all my music.
Streaming music will always suck for creators and consumers alike. These companies are parasites, every bit as predatory and exploitative as anything in the traditional music industry.
I took your advice very seriously. My subscription to Spotify is only 3 months, and I am trying Tidal now. For years, Apple Music was my sole subscription. The most important reason for me to quit Spotify is the use of ghost music instead of playing the originals. But, I miss Spotify because it offers something that no one else is doing right now, and it’s the ability to start streaming from one device and continue from another. The ability to start streaming from my Mac, and use the iPhone as a remote control. This capability is so convenient that it just might be the reason to go back to Spotify. Another plus of Spotify is it’s playlist. The Playlists that Spotify has created for me in the last 3 months of use, have been phenomenal. They are so much better than Apple Music has ever created and up until now it seems to be better than Tidal. Based on few days of using Tidal, the implementation of Chromecast is very bad. Even the Apple Watch is not sync with the iPhone during playback - This is so Annoying because I know that it can be better. Only time will tell.
I moved away from Spotify to use Apple Music exclusively, for 2 or 3 of the reasons you mentioned (quality, AppleTV integration and app clutter). But I was drawn back in. Why? I find Apple Music makes it hard to discover new music. I find the app interface worse than Spotify's, I don't like that it pushes top 40 music on me, regardless of the types of music I listen to. I despise that playlist creation is so much more complex than Spotify. The only bright spot for me was AppleTV integration. The rest has me wanting way more. If it could be 25% of what the Podcast app is, I'd be so much happier.
The reason I've totally quit streaming in recent years is that I'm spending a fortune and I own nothing. But many of the reasons you've listed as things I kind of noticed happening on Spotify but didn't fully realise what was going on. I've always bought music and films physically, but my spend on these things has increase substantially since 2022 as I became jaded with streaming services for movies and music pushing up prices and ultimately I own nothing.
A boring comment here just to say I agree with all your arguments for dropping Spotify. I had suspected the "ghost musician" issue based on personal experience with certain Spotify playlists, particularly ambient ones. I reckon it happens with other genres, but it seems most obvious to me there. Having that suspicion more or less confirmed feels like the straw breaking the camel's back for me. Another great video, as always, and I hope your shoulder feels better soon!
"I find navigating Apple music on an Apple TV with an Apple TV Remote" Jesus fucking christ. I mean, he's pointing out the biggest flaw with Apple without meaning to. Apple is great... if everything you own is Apple. Try and get something Apple to talk to something that isn't Apple and you're in for a shit time. This is exactly why I won't touch anything Apple related with a 10 foot pole.
I'm confident that Spotify will never offer lossless audio because providers and artists demand higher royalty rates for that, and Spotify's CEO and board seem solely focused on profit, with little regard for artists or audio quality. So yes, bye bye !
Because apple music offered it at no extra cost
I mean if you read the article about ex Apple Music employees you must be surprised
N😂 they were waiting for Darko to quit Lol..2025 hifi Spotify all rhymes & reasons ...christmas seasons
How is Tidal offering lossless when available for $10/month? The best quality Spotify offers is awful for what they charge. The root problem with Spotify is that they have thrown away too much money on bad podcast deals. For example, $20 million dollars signing Prince Harry and Meghan to a podcast deal that nobody watched.
profit! they make a net loses in the hundreds of millions each year, and I think that will some way to explain why it hasn't materialised. At this point I feel at some point spotify will be bought up. There value is solely there algorithm.
99% of consumers don't care about sound quality. They listen on cheap, subpar consumer hardware like cheap earbuds and headphones and everything is bluetooth. Most consumers don't even know what "bitrate" means let alone any of the other technical aspects of audio. Streaming is the bane of both audio and video quality. 4K UHD blu rays and HD audio physical media is far superior to video or audio streamed today. We will own nothing and we will hate it....
true , as long as they feel the bass and can sing the words they dont care
This pretty much sums it up. My sister and her family only have a soundbar in the living room for the TV. And for music it is Spotify. And Spotify alone. I was able to offer them a free month of Qobuz during the Summer. But nope. They stuck with their Spotify. And didn't even test Qobuz.
I'm pretty much the only one in my circle of family and friends who has invested in a nice setup or two. And have a big collection of audio CD's, high-res audio purchases, DVD and (4k) BluRay movies and series. Next to streaming.
The rest. Well Spotify and Netflix. But that's about it.
Nice hifi in the home? Nah those Bluetooth earbuds connected to their iPhones are apparently the next best thing...
Yes, we will own nothing and be happy. Well, that's what the globalists want for us. Most people I know, regardless of how much their hi-fi equipment costs, treat music as background noise.
I largely agree with you, however, in the US especially, a lot of people do actually have premium devices capable of reproducing lossless quality audio and high bitrate video in an appreciably superior way to compressed lossy formats (iPhones, Samsung phones, air pods pros, Sonos speakers (tbh any wi-fi audio device), Chromecast audio and speakers, "chi-fi" kit). A lot of people now have access to fiber internet, or at least higher bandwidth copper internet.
For sure some people do not have these devices or the access and for whom it doesn't matter. Most people don't care to "listen" or "watch" intently to catch the differences, and most mainstream media outlets do not advertise their media is of a much lower quality than what's available on CDs or Blu-ray, so people do not know what they're missing. However, now that the devices and infrastructure to enjoy lossless digital media has become mainstream, it's worth educating peers and consumers about getting the most out of our gear and demanding better from our digital gatekeepers (mostly media companies). The truth is that it's MUCH easier and cheaper for companies to run low res services and charge money as if it's the best and keep consumers ignorant. Competition, in this case, can make the end products for consumers much better. A company like qobuz is successful for this reason. People just need to know
Yes 100% correct that’s why true audio guys use Vinyl, CD, SACD or DSD
If streaming goes up to $50 a month, CD’s and downloads would make an astounding comeback.
WHEN, not if.
Nope. Piracy would.
Yes, it's naive to believe people wouldn't turn to piracy if costs went up that much.
That being said, I am willing to pay more for premium lossless streaming. Today I'm using Tidal. Even though I went to the same high school as Daniel Ek, and know several people who has worked at Spotify over the years... that made me want to use Spotify. I've now given up on them ever adding lossless streaming
In developing countries, like here in Brazil, it would be unsustainable to have access to any of these services and piracy would be reborn with full force.
Maybe. They shut down piracy before; what would keep them from shutting it down again? RIP Napster.
70% Spotify user have not a premium subscription, that is NOT a music streamnig Service, is an advertising company that use music as a medium to distribute advertising space
Are these 70% active users? Cause I have an account that I haven’t logged in in years
I hope you ain't been paying them then, @@monoblock.
well said. It's sad but true. Student plans make a major chunk as well, but they don't really care about high-res.
This is stupid, every music radio broadcaster works the same way. When I wasn't a premium subscriber the amount of ads was even less than any normal radio station and you wouldn't have annoying speakers, traffic news and you could even choose what to listen.
And also why their average pay per stream is lower, because they don’t make that much money from ads. On subscriptions they likely pay the exact same rate as every other streaming service
Streaming is basically the transfer of wealth from artists to investors. Bandcamp Friday's FTW!
That's dangerously close to Marxist. Nice.
Agreed on the first part; unfortunately Bandcamp got bought by some dodgy folks too, so I wonder how long that will last…
Bandcamp and Qobuz are basically the only reliable places online to buy digital, high fidelity, lossless audio.
Obviously most people aren't going to hear the difference between CD quality and a 192Khz, 24-bit, WAV/AIFF album. But I am finding that sometimes there aren't even widely available CDs anymore.
Yes I buy all what my fav artists produce on Bandcamp
@@squrlerNamely Epic Games.
The best reason to quit Spotify is the terrible royalties they give artists. I've seen my royalty rate drop constantly. I've had songs where they never even paid me for the streams it got. Spotify is not a music company.
You’d hope they’d respond to the criticism and give musicians a better deal but no, seems like it’s getting (intentionally) worse! ☹️
@@andygilbert1877 it's for sure getting worse.
@@andygilbert1877It has gone down 50% since Spotify launched. The free for all platform doesn’t work, so Spotify has made the majority of artists pay for that failure.
@@Capitan_Cavernicola_1 I hear you, I did that before but it's kinda pointless cos you reach new people but make nothing from it.
@@Capitan_Cavernicola_1 spotify has monopoly and theres no competition or other options, apple music is better but still pays in peanuts
I don't watch the same movie over and over, but I do it with music, so makes sense that music won't be removed from streaming services.
The point is, the free or low cost access can be used for a brief window, then if you want to continue listening you pay a reasonable amount for the content. Instead you continue listening very low cost which is unsustainable for the artist that created the content.
Very glad you make the point that there are no "good guys" when it comes to streaming. No streaming service is good for musicians or for music in the long term.
I honestly found that to be a weak statement when Tidal literally pays out 3 times what Spotify and Apple pay while RUclips Music pays seemingly next to nothing.
It is good for consumers tho.
@@Tech-nm1sx 3x nothing is still nothing.
@@Tech-nm1sx 3x what Spotify pays? Truly they are an example to all. Oh! Wait though…turns out that 3x next-to-FA is still pitiful and still leaves a bigger slice of the money with the corporation than it deserves and too little with artists. That is a very weak argument based on a relative comparison.
bandcamp is very transparent with its policies, but it’s not a “streaming” platform first and foremost
Personally I buy CDs, but one of life’s pleasures is having my kids play me their latest favourite music via Spotify connect, sharing the experience of listening together. It goes the other way too, I play them music and my eldest knows CDs sound better than streaming on my system.
No one would listen to half of these artist if we had to buy a single or album how we used to …
Yeah. That's true! I don't believe going back to physical media will happen in any significant way... normal users don't care to sacrifice the convenience of streaming... and in particular cheap streaming
Many of them wouldn't even have the money to make their records available in music stores, let alone making money selling them.
@@hannie1301and I can’t really blame them. Hell I collect and I still stream music. It’s where I find new artists, and if that artist blows my socks off, I buy their stuff. I wouldn’t have half the artists CDs and vinyls I do if it weren’t for streaming.
That's thing isn't it, while I am sympathetic to the fact artists don't get enough of the money the flip side is that there is no way a vast majority of music on spotify is financially viable. I'm absolutely not going to listen to Reggie Watts 3000 times, but I'm also unlikely to buy one of his CD's, If I and 3000 other people listen to it once the he will have made £15 for a CD that none of us would have purchased in the first place.
It's always been this way, before streaming it was the record companies that were the gate keepers, a vast majority of artists never made life long money, but equally they never owned the manufacturing and advertising side.
Dont have to go back to physical media @hannie1301
Just have to give people the option to buy AND OWN digital albums/songs in a non-proprietary format. I know I'd happily buy that to support good artists. I'd rather buy a few albums worth of songs per month that I own forever and the money goes mostly to the artists, than pay for streaming which does none of those things. And artists would still be easily discoverable. This is 2025, not 1995.
My biggest annoyance with Spotify is their diversification into podcasts and audio books. The money and effort spent on anything other than music is wasted on me. Not ready to switch yet, but I am close.
Absolutely rightly said and done, as musician, recording artist and an audiophile i couldn't agree more, i hope more and more people realise where this is going and changes made accordingly, thank you👍
John. I am very glad that you have come to this situation. I quit Spotify a few years ago when I got frustrated with the crap. I buy as much vinyl as I may afford and downloads. Preach.
You are a very rare species
I just switched from Spotify to Tidal recently as well, primarily because of the downward trajectory of Spotify UI - it is horrendous, it is sluggish, it is a mess, and it just keeps getting worse by the day - Tidal's UI is much more elegant, I really enjoy it. I also have what I would call a half-decent stereo setup and I wanted to make the most of it with better resolution files. Only thing that's bugging me about Tidal is the inability to make custom playlist covers, I really enjoyed that feature on Spotify, and I enjoyed making my own covers to personalise my music library, I really hope they will integrate that feature someday soon
I have never used Spotify. I use Apple Music and Tidal to discover music and if I like something, I buy the vinyl album. I think that's the best way to support artists, just buy their music!
If only Apple Music improved their discovery algorithm it would be A1 (granted it’s been pretty decent lately)
I don't do vinyl myself. I prefer downloads. I have been shopping a lot last year in Qobuz's online store. Excellent quality and very decently priced.
Tidal library is empty.
I agree with these comments. Apple Music has replaced the listening booth I used in my teens.
I agree. If I really like an artist, I buy the album. I stream it too, but I buy it and just delete the mp3.
Spotify had been going on my nerves forever with announcing lossless-quality and then not delivering. I'm sticking with Tidal now, no matter if Spotify one day delivers or not.
Now connect this to the fact that the entire streaming and distribution industry has been quietly excluding Bandcamp from all mention.
He’s so close to getting it
BAND-CAMP! BAND-CAMP BAND-CAMP! ✊🎆
Bandcamp!! Support the artist. Subscribe to the artist (or label). Buy the files, or vinyl or cd!!!
This.. as a musician.
spending 10 bucks on an album is much better for the artist than listening to their music on any streaming service during your entire lifetime
In principle, I agree with the point in pricing being too cheap. On the other hand, I think that if all music streaming services were $50+ (USD) per month, there’d be a huge increase in people pirating music. Not at the scale of the Napster or Limewire or Kazaa days but I’d be willing to bet that it’d be significant enough for companies and artists to notice it in their payments.
I'm an "old man" so I only use CD's & SACD's, streaming, especially in MP3 quality, has never been anything for me.
Qobuz gang rise up!!!!
I've said it once and I'll say it again. I use Spotify like I used to use FM radio. I listen to Spotify in the background and to explore new music. If I happen to especially like what I hear, I will attempt to purchase the music on CD or LP. I have no interest in better streaming or high rez files. I can't hear the difference.
Of course you could also use any of the other streaming services for that as well 😀 And you can't hear the difference? That is your actual experience, or do you assume so? 😂
This is the correct answer. My CD is then ripped to my music server. And while some may claim they hear a difference in audio quality between streaming services and be prepared to pay for it, those listening on apple ear pods, in their car, on their soundbar and so forth probably don't care. Spotify is good enough for the masses in that respect.
Regarding their approach to paying artists or agents or maybe avoiding payment - well that's a whole other thing altogether. I am sure presenting shonky covers is something the artists might want to take up with Spotify on their own account if they feel ripped off in that respect.
@@ErwindeWit-v9u I've tried a few. In my case there was insufficient benefit to make it worth the financial commitment. Plus Spotify was just easier to navigate.
Except FM radio probably sounds better...
I'm 75 years old. I have hearing damage from years of clubbing. It's my actual experience.
That Billie Eilish reference to her talking about Lossless audio is hilarious because her vinyl release of Hit Me Hard and Soft was strictly on recycled materials which received a ton of backlash for the poor audio quality.
In my case, I disagree with your view on pricing and content availability. Spotify is now a source of music discovery for many, and the days of blindly buying an LP are gone for me, given the hugely inflated cost of vinyl.
During 2024, I purchased over 40 LPs after listening to the albums on Spotify. If I were then having to pay £50 per month to be able to discover the full music library or listen to albums on the move (I currently pay for premium Duo and also have Apple Music), I would cancel my subscription straight away, and my subsequent LP purchases would then drop drastically.
I also buy gig tickets, even for lesser-known artists I found on Spotify.
Neither the artist nor I are really benefiting here then. There’s probably a better balance to be struck.
Precisely. Why is the solution to increase exclusivity, and provide a worse product for a majority of consumers? The root cause is the royalty payment policy of the platform itself, so why punish the consumer whilst not benefiting the artist in any way? The fact that John funds his physical purchases through this channel is incredibly ironic. I commented on the same topic; I really hope he adresses the argument, because his take was really really poor.
👍
Supporting the artists is why I buy most of my music on CD, usually from the bands website if possible, even if I listen to it via streaming services for quite a lot of the time (in my car and at work). As music lovers we need to ensure the people providing our pleasure can survive to make even more of what we love. Also allows me to burn it to my NAS as FLAC for use in my home audio systems so I know I'm getting best quality on my best listening devices.
I usually just go with Vinyl, DVD Audio, Blu-Ray pure audio, and SACD because of how those releases are mastered. The regular CDs are pretty mastered for cheap crappy earbuds, cheap crappy headphones, and cheap crappy non-audiophile car speakers
Qobuz has got the best editorial Line in the business. Their propositions and content IS far above the rest
I said goodbye to Spotify mainly because I felt the sound quality of Qobuz was better.
And Booklets! And Roon integration!
💯qobuz is better
I just switched to Qobuz 2 days ago, the main issue I have with them though is there EXTREMELY SLOW DOWNLOADS, and how it will literally ONLY allow you to download while the app is open and even then they take FOREVER!!
Qobuz is WAY better. For me (classical; some jazz, blues, folk, world) it is almost perfect. Don’t need Connect, mainly use a WiiM Ultra these days, straight into my Arcam stereo amp or - sometimes - via my Audiolab DAC. Superb!
Great Video as always, Thanks for linking the article, that was a good read. And I wish you a speedy recovery with the shoulder.
I don't have any streaming service anymore, I check out new music on youtube, buy CDs and also rip them for devices if needed.
I don’t understand why anyone would pick Spotify. Poor sound quality, poor ethics, poor behaviour.
Well, inertia, the app was so much better than the concurrence for so much time.. that most people don't want to change it now, even for a better service
It’s the community, so many of my German friends are die hard Spotify
To be honest I think most people don’t know the majority of points that Darko makes in this. Especially things like the ghosts in the machine. Artists making $0.003 per stream etc.
Like Darko says, people use it because it’s cheap and convenient which are most people’s priorities
Because you've also just described a lot of the people in the World 🤷♂
Because we’re ruled by enough American big tech already.
The sound quality is an argument for getting rid of Spotify. The reason Spotify hasnt gone lossless is 99% don't know or care about lossless. Many use cheap Bluetooth earbuds that couldn't take advantage of lossless.
that's not the point being made here, they never should have said they were going to and should say if they have changed there mind
That’s me.
even the AirPods Max doesn't support Apple lossless
But even if you use fairly expensive headphones, most people simply wouldn't hear any difference between 320kbit/s and lossless, at least outside of extensive A/B testing which would still leave many not able to decide what they prefer. And that is with music that is mastered in a high quality way which isn't close to all.
IMO there are premium features that would be more beneficial for most subscribers, like a cloud storage solution for your own music files, which is also something Spotify is lacking behind other services.
Spotify sounds pretty damn good on my ~$7,000 system. I have 128 DSD files that don’t mop the floor with Spotify.
I am 73 years old I cannot hear the difference between 320 & higher, but the soundstage & imaging is still excellent on Spotify, I’ve been a serious listener since 1976.
Spotify 320 kbit/s is sufficient. I did a lot of blind tests and with anything above 128 kbit/s it was mostly guesswork for me to pick the compressed format. If you really want next level spatial audio (with dedicated speakers, no soundbar or headphone) is the way to go.
I'm 75. You are Spot........ify on!!!
Hmm, for me (53 years old), the difference is obvious. Still, even if you can't hear the difference doesn't mean you couldn't choose something else.. Right?
i agree,if you want better quality buy digital musics or˛cd's,end of the story
Funny I tried to find one of the most popular songs of a Japanese artist (recently deceased) in Qobus yesterday & only found one cover version! Went to Spotify and there are multiple versions by her. Qobus generally satisfies my need to find new stuff. They have more stuff than I can ever listen to even I listen 24/7 for now on (57 years old) till I go back to dust. But I do look up east Asian music from yesteryears and most of the time can't find them in Qobus. Tidal fares better, Spotify even better. If you don't care the sound quality too much, I have been able to find just about any music I looked for in RUclips (the video channel). I was ready to drop Qobus for Spotify when they alledged to start CD quality streaming. But I have since given up on Spotify. They just wouldn't give a freaking confirmation up front one way or other. Til this day, I don't subscribe to Spotify.
My friend, not all countries have the same salaries as in Germany! Some people live for $500 or less per month, while most countries have an average income of $300 per person. What $50 a month are you talking about?
well said !!!!
Man, I’m from Ukraine and my salary is 190$ as a teacher. So I used a family subscription on Apple Music, cause it’s cheap. Btw, Tidal don’t even work here anymore, only with vpn for some reasons
It's easy for companies to employ different pricing tiers in different countries, wouldn't surprise me if spotify already does this
I ditched Spotify in 2021 when Apple Music started offering Hi-Res at the same price
I ditched when Apple paid artists more per stream.
Same here
Yuck, Mac.
@@mmiles9512 Mac is a computer?
Well done, John! I too side with quality audio and supporting the artists!
Gone down the Qobuz route. Enjoying it so far.
Wait, so Qobuz pay out to artists, 5x what Spotify does, with HQ music, and for the same price…
@@Tmp205 Tidal has the same price as Spotify. Qobuz is slightly more expensive. But it doesn't break the bank at all. I'm subscribed to both Qobuz and Tidal.
@@Tmp205 plus you get the liner notes for albums on there, and also playlists that are actually awesome... love my qobuz subscription
Only offers niche genres that isn't enjoyable with most people
@@tijesuniogunrombi9456 Are we talking about the same Qobuz?
Using Qobuz since 2011, CD quality minimum, all good for me
I think this is your best video yet. Single-handedly convinced me to drop Spotify and buy more albums.
About the prices of services increasing substantially. That would be a serious mistake! In developing countries, like here in Brazil, it would be unsustainable to have access to any of these services and piracy would resurface with full force.
Qobuz is the new King. Long live the King!
Nah, RUclips Music is just fine.
Qobuz has been king since it debuted.
I've been subbed to them for 4 years straight now. Longest I have ever been subbed to a single streaming service. It's that good. About to renew for the 5th year at the end of the month. 😎
Tidal is amazing too! Much better UI in my opinion, and a bit more choice.
I just switched to Qobuz 2 days ago, the main issue I have with them though is there EXTREMELY SLOW DOWNLOADS, and how it will literally ONLY allow you to download while the app is open and even then they take FOREVER!!
I used to pay for spotify until the price went from $3 to $11 for my country. Apple music is still $3.29 so I’ll be using that for my everyday music and buying my favorites.
Cobuzz Hi-Res Sound for The same Price....✨👍🏻
Me quietly using RUclips music premium instead of all the apps people are mentioning 😶🌫️
Like you, hearing about the Ghost musicians was the final straw for me, a few weeks ago I cancelled Spotify and have since begun using Apple Music instead.
Spotify to me, always sound like a low bitrate on my good hi fi set up. And I am using premium
I hear all the things you say and agree with many of them but I would really miss Spotify discover weekly. Who ever wrote the AI is a absolute genius and for me is worth the subscription on its own. I have discovered literally hundreds of tracks that I now love that I would never have come across any other way
Yes!!! Exactly, a lot of these artists would never be heard any other way.
Honestly I switched to Tidal and I think the daily discovery is actually better than spotify’s
I’ve been so pleasantly surprised by all the cool artists I’ve got to listen to because of it
I love Spotify for my favourites podcasts availability, their search engine and new music proposals but my frustration about not delivering the promise and being silent about hi-res audio reached its peak. This video made me finally decide the moment to copy my playlist somewhere else. Thank you!
Nice to see Matthew Halsall in your tunes this time. I’m ending up in a very similar place to you John. I’m by no means an audiophile, largely because the top end of my hearing is wrecked and I have mild tinnitus from too many gigs, but I’ve ditched Spotify and gone with Tidal for streaming, then buy physical copies of the things I really like from Bandcamp, local record shops and record fairs. Spent Christmas dragging my 4000-ish CDs out of storage and ripping/cataloging them, so I’m currently going through a voyage of discovery with all the stuff I’d forgotten I even owned.
There are a few things that keeps me with Spotify...
-An huge library of music in different musicstyles
-Being able to use it via voice command in my car
-being able to use my raspberry pi/hifiberry/libreelec setup as a spotify-connect device.
High res audio could be fun on my raspberry setup, but when I'm outdoors and using a bt headphone or in my car with bt carkit it's really pointless to have a high res stream.
Mind, I still have a cd-player in my car and that sounds awesome when I play a cd
It baffles me that the other companies don’t support voice control.
A good becker CD charger and a fm are enough to give me a lot of pleasure while driving.
It’s quite easy, best sound Qobuz, best everything else Apple Music.
Especially with Cider 2 for apple music
Absolutely. I have both Tidal and Qobuz for Roon (Grimm MU2) and I find the libraries to be pretty much the the same for my tastes. Sometimes Tidal has albums Qobuz doesn't have and vice versa. I find Qobuz has more High Res versions of albums than Tidal. Both sound great but Qobuz may edge it..doubt i could tell in a blind test though and my system is very resolving.
Also! Qobuz connect is on the way but you can use Chrome cast.
Just my two cents.
How did you come to that conclusion as there are no differences between any lossless streaming services, they have all the same masters...
Yes, but Apple... No thanks. Also, Qobuz's library isn't as extensive.
There is no Apple connect. That alone makes it impossible for me to get. The majority of my music listening is taking advantage of spotify connect so that would be a huge pain.
The only reason i still have spotify is because i failed to convince the wife.
There are a couple of kids music albums on spotify that tidal doesnt have.
If it's literally 2 albums, just purchase them as downloads.
Thank you for this video. I hope this message is a drum you keep beating as time moves forward.
Once Tidal went to high rez for just $11 a month…I said adios to Spotify. Once I listened to Low Roar on the Death Stranding soundtrack in 24 bit…I’ll never go back.
Easy Way Out is just so good
@@DavidRistic-f4e fantastic song! Bones is my personal favorite. Just such a great album!
Alot and I mean ALOT of music is still using MQA, even if Tidal says it's "Master" quality. Qobuz & Apple Music are currently the only ones offering actual lossless streaming. I'm not sure what you are using to determine that it's actual 24 bit.
People never cared for sound quality on physical media or we would have SACD or Blu Ray Dolby Atmos everywhere. They didn't care for image quality or they wouldn't have chosen VHS. They chose porn. Music consumers today choose hip hip. They don't care how it sounds, only that other people can hear them playing it on their phone speaker.
I've been waiting for hi res spotify for years,got fed up and have gone to Amazon music .
Great video John. I also cancelled my Spotify subscription last year. As an audiophile I have been enjoying my Qobuz (great quality and downloads!) and Roon subscriptions for a few years now. I stream in addition to my CD collection, which I still buy every month and listen to with great pleasure every day. That should keep our music needs going...;-).
The Netflix comparison is flawed, there's not a single movie I've watched more than a handful of times and I'll gladly go a decade or more before watching them again. Music on the other hand?
Precisely. Also I would think it costs way more to make a movie compared to making an album. Just look at he end credits of a movie just to see how many people worked on it.
I’m 15 and a hifi nerd. Me and my dad share this hobby. I resently bought the new WiiM ultra and with That upgrade se changed from spotify to tidal. I sat and listend for hours comparing the two and it is really really night and day to my ears at least and i could nerver go back.
Same for me, the recent purchase of a WiiM Ultra prompted me to subscribe to Tidal as I wasn’t satisfied with Spotify’s sound quality on either of my home systems.
Nice! You guys should do some blind A-B testing too
Bought a WiiM Ultra last week. It's my third streamer next to my Cambridge CXN V2 and a Bluesound Node X. It sounds really good for its price. Happy listening. 😀
@@tronlives7335 and check whether comparing to Free or premium Spotify.... And whether truly level matched within 0.3dB....and the same master....etc
Me too. Last week bought the WiiM Ultra streamer, Marantz 6007 Amp, waiting for ELAC Debut 3 63bk speakers and signed up to Tidal.
Thank you 🙏 Long overdue content and information.
Nice video, and you’ve summed up just about all the reasons I moved away from Spotify. Streaming music is too cheap-too good to be true, indeed. The reason I’m sticking with Qobuz, despite the (minor) gripes I have with it (as you mentioned), is its music- and artist-centric approach. One of the features I love most about Qobuz is the ability to easily explore music by labels. If I like an album, chances are the label has more fun stuff to offer. And wohoo! On Qobuz, I can go down that rabbit hole and just click play to listen to all albums released by the label. I haven’t yet found an easy way to do this on other platforms.
Agree-sure Qobuz is missing things but when I migrated my stuff from Spotify the success rate was 85% at the very lowest and when I started to dig into the misses I found many were actually there they just weren't hit for whatever reason so success is likely more in the 90s. Do I really need EVERYTHING on one platform? And the label rabbit hole is deep and magical!
Yes, musicians aren’t being paid enough for their new music….however, I’m old and have purchased every format going over the years - 45’s, LP’s, 8 tracks, cassettes, cds, SACDs, Blu Rays, DVDs etc etc., often having the same songs/albums on a number of formats - so for those older artists - I’ve more than paid my share to them!
I'm a Plexamp user, but I used RUclips Music for music discovery. I will never used Spotify every again.
Cheers for ‘putting back’ into the industry John, by buying vinyl/CD’s. The industry, and more importantly artists, NEED IT! ❤
I've had a Spotify account since 2012. I barely used it within the last decade. Aside from my indifference to streaming audio, another reason is a lot of my collection has rare and out of print music. Most of which cannot he found on Spotify - or any other streaming service, for that matter.
I have been very conflicted with Spotify for some time and have actually made the switch to Apple a couple of months ago. heers for all the great articles and vids over the past few years...much appreciated.
About time JD! Now here’s a thing, when Spotify was originally launched my company leapt at the opportunity to stream music around the office. The keen eared amongst us started to notice that the music that claimed to be by established artists, clearly was not. It became quite obvious that they were playing very clever cover versions in place of the real stuff. We imagined at the time that they had not received the rights at that point. Allegedly. And it is for that reason that Spotify has never darkened my desktop/mobile device. Well done for ditching the service.
6:15 another reason why Spotify demonetizes small artists, it is a way for them to not invest in security and fighting fake artists.
Proudly never used Spotify. CDs rule.
No....Vinyl rules 😉
With ya on this
@@jimmysirlonewolflauritsen1831 lol at this point you are just a troll.... MP3 128 rules 1000000 time more than a crappy dusty crackling vinyl
I recently got a new asus WiFi 7 router. It’s fantastic. It fixed a major issue I had with airplay 2 streaming from my plex server. My music sounded very distorted from my iPhone to my pioneer lsx 305 receiver. My old router made airplay 2 sound bad . Now that I am on the new receiver it sounds great. It’s actually listenable now.
"If you're one of those ones who say I'm not an audiophile, I'm a music lover - YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE" Love it.
I buy predominantly records, as often as possible through Bandcamp, I fully agree that artists I don't think are getting their fair share from most streaming services. I canceled Spotify during the Joe Rogan debacle and don't miss it. I don't agree with their ethos, they're money over artists / morality imho.
also, the Spotify guy is using his earnings to invest in weird AI killer drones...
The cost of pretty much everything is up 2~3 times what it was 20 years ago, yet wages are only about 1.5 times what they were. (even the high paid careers) Yell at our bosses before suggesting we spend more of what little we're getting. You're either talking to a shrinking audience or totally out of touch.
Hope you feel better soon! Wonderful vid on the state of streaming music 👍
I cancelled last yet after they lied to me along under the rouse of lossless music..."coming soon". Such BS.
Sound quality of Spotify has always been sh*t.
I had no idea they were creating Muzak.
Soundquality is fine. Babbling about high bitrates audio is BS. I have a Genelec studio monitor setup and Spotify sounds just as good as Apple music. That's just reality.
@@syntheee no, reality is that some people simply cant tell the difference, same way there are some people who cant see higher than 60hz on a monitor, my phone has a 120hz screen and she cant tell the difference between it and a 60hz screen, my dad is iffy on whether or not he can actually see 240hz on my monitor
also same way some people cant tell the difference in taste of different whiskies, they just taste the malty-ness and the burn
there is also the whole thing where some people are color blind
hearing is even more delicate, but there are still a ton of people who cant really appreciate the tiny things, some people cant tell the difference between different amps, some cant really tell the difference between headphones (simply just that they do some a little different), some people are tone deaf, some think sound bars are perfectly fine when compared to a proper speaker setup
@@syntheee I can tell far more difference -- every time I compare the two -- between lossy and lossless streams than I can between CD quality and the various true Hi-Res tiers. There absolutely is a difference. Biggest thing I notice when going back to a Spotify stream is significantly reduced soundstage width and depth; the entire sound field, or cone of music coming at the listening position just shrinks in on itself. The clarity of details and tones in a Spotify stream has a course graininess not unlike that of the visual graininess of DVD when compared to Blu-Ray. You being unable to hear those differences might speak to the particulars of your hearing rather than any established "reality" you'd like to claim. Oh, and I'll take a stronger stance than John --> F**k Spotify!
@@syntheeeI'm not an audiophile, but I could differentiate how the high-end content of any given song drastically deteriorated when going from 320 kbps to 128 kbp. Can't say much about other technicalities. This was at the age of 14, with garbage audio gear.
If you're struggling to tell the changes with much better equipment, maybe the fault is with you.
@@jihamiya5755 Yeah 320 to 128 you definitely can for sure, and I have the same sort of year and level of equipment when I could tell the difference. But Spotify's 320 OGG vs a FLAC file if you balance the volume to be as close to the same? I think some people think they are special enough to hear differences when realistically I find details that are there listening a bit higher on the lossless version and then I hear them on spotify on a quieter setting also. Still, just to squeeze the last few percent if it's there, I'm curating a FLAC collection atm myself
One thing I make sure to do - despite using streaming services when I'm portable - is purchase copies albums from artists I like. Even if they sit on my media server and I rarely listen to them.
I'm onboard on quitting Spotify. Have been thinking about for awhile now.
Great video as usual; very informative. Keep up the good work Darko!
Wow 😮 this doesn’t surprise me one bit, 100% agree. The interface is far too fussy, res is the worst out there, and to be fair now doesn’t offer any value for money compared to the rest
Hello Darko,
Would it be possible for you to create a video conducting a blind AB test between Spotify and high-resolution audio files? It would be fascinating to see if you can consistently identify differences in sound quality-distinguishing between subpar and superb audio. This experiment could provide valuable insights into whether high-resolution audio truly makes a noticeable difference, both for you and your audience.
About a year and a half ago i switched to Tidal after being a life long Spotify user. my family still streams on Spotify and we have a Spotify family supscription so i still have it aswell. Recently i tried Spotify again on my pc after using Tidal for over a year, and oh my god. What have they done to the layout and design of the app?? ITS HORRENDOUS! Atleast my parents are paying the subscription because i would NOT pay for Spotify. Not when compared to Tidal.
Been using spotify for many years and out of curiosity i tried tidal 3 years ago when i got 3 months for just a small fee. I believe i have a competent setup and im not ashamed to say that i can't hear the difference between mp3 and lossless.
I don't have gear that supports MQA though but i mean (i still can't hear the difference between lossless files on my computer compared to spotify's alleged 320kbps files)
Setup: RME ADI 2 Dac fs(serves as dac and preamp) first version Rotel RB1090 power amplifier and LTS 3v-f2 (fullfrequency 3way floor standing speakers)
I guess the margins ain't worth it for me as of now and that's fine even though i like the pursuit of better sound🤔
Agree with apple user experience. Easy, smooth, looks nice.
Listening to music is not like watching a movie though. We can listen to the same song multiple times everyday without issue especially if mixed in with other music.
Also, it costs way more to make movie than an album.
true!
Excellent vid. I cancelled Spotify during the Neil Young / Joni Mitchell walkout (which proved temporary) but I've only grown happier to have quit over the past few years amid the AI fake artist scandal and the
Cancelling Spotify was not easy decision. But the more news that comes out about how deceptive, dishonest and disingenuous the company is run, the better I feel. Apple Music's AirPlay capabilities to multiple sources, Hi-Res Lossless quality, higher royalty payouts and User Interface - especially on it's BEST UI with an iPad... just win. And the storage locker capability of storing my music that is NOT on streaming right with albums I only listen to on streams PLUS the ability to manipulate mp3 tags makes for a clear winner.
Be aware that you are NOT getting Hi-Res Lossless over AirPlay except under specific situations on a device using AirPlay 1 instead of the more common AirPlay 2. John has videos describing this. :)
Fortunately, I can't afford audio equipment that's good enough to
make my low bitrate Spotify stream sound bad.
Hi just had an unusual experience. Got a galaxy watch at Xmas. Was listening to my phone on Momentum 4s. My phone was dead so I switched to old mixes I'd saved on my watch but never listened. I'd used it to control media ib my phone but never streamed from it. I have an old Samsung s10 for work. When I switched to the watch the sound was a marked improvement even sound stage sounds wider. I've tried amazing music Spotify etc all sound better. Don't know what dac or dsp is going on but I approve. I thought it might be a subject for u never seen a video about watch audio. Keep up the good work your video got me thru bad times
Sorry to hear about your neck John. Not fun. Spotify also seems to be filling their playlists with AI generated Muzak, especially jazz. That’s even worse than real musicians playing bland crap. I’m amazed that so many musicians push them so much.
Interestingly, one of Lou Reed's first jobs was recording anonymous muzak to go on compilations for Pickwick Records. Kind of the 1960's version of Spotify's ghost music.
Enjoy your channel, but I'd be stunned if you can tell the difference between the lossless vs the Ogg Vorbis in a blind test. So far as I've seen, Spotify has the best discovery options, continually introducing me to new music I wouldn't have otherwise encountered. I listen on Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 4s and have no complaints about sound quality.
Tested Qobuz vs Spotify on a decent hifi setup - in blind a/b was surprised that 9/10 times my wife, mum and dad preferred the Qobuz sound. None of them are audiophiles.
its a great feature of course. but when the track you put on your playlist disapear overnight for no reason you think again.... i dont care about the discovery option if my playlist is destroying itself without notice. i can tell i lost some tracks because of the number of track on the playlist decrease overtime and i know the order of tracks but if i didn't memorized the track name its lost FOR EVER. Spotify can delete a song from its servers overnight if they want. and they do often ! because we rely too much on third party services we forgot to backup and thats why i will do the same mistake. i Download every music i want to listen. because of streaming service i'v got a new phobia, the fear of loosing all my music.
Family runs Spotify family and I have a single account for Tidal. Only chance of me going back is lossless audio.
Streaming music will always suck for creators and consumers alike. These companies are parasites, every bit as predatory and exploitative as anything in the traditional music industry.
I took your advice very seriously. My subscription to Spotify is only 3 months, and I am trying Tidal now.
For years, Apple Music was my sole subscription.
The most important reason for me to quit Spotify is the use of ghost music instead of playing the originals.
But, I miss Spotify because it offers something that no one else is doing right now, and it’s the ability to start streaming from one device and continue from another. The ability to start streaming from my Mac, and use the iPhone as a remote control.
This capability is so convenient that it just might be the reason to go back to Spotify.
Another plus of Spotify is it’s playlist. The Playlists that Spotify has created for me in the last 3 months of use, have been phenomenal.
They are so much better than Apple Music has ever created and up until now it seems to be better than Tidal.
Based on few days of using Tidal, the implementation of Chromecast is very bad.
Even the Apple Watch is not sync with the iPhone during playback - This is so Annoying because I know that it can be better.
Only time will tell.
I moved away from Spotify to use Apple Music exclusively, for 2 or 3 of the reasons you mentioned (quality, AppleTV integration and app clutter). But I was drawn back in. Why? I find Apple Music makes it hard to discover new music. I find the app interface worse than Spotify's, I don't like that it pushes top 40 music on me, regardless of the types of music I listen to. I despise that playlist creation is so much more complex than Spotify. The only bright spot for me was AppleTV integration. The rest has me wanting way more. If it could be 25% of what the Podcast app is, I'd be so much happier.
The reason I've totally quit streaming in recent years is that I'm spending a fortune and I own nothing. But many of the reasons you've listed as things I kind of noticed happening on Spotify but didn't fully realise what was going on.
I've always bought music and films physically, but my spend on these things has increase substantially since 2022 as I became jaded with streaming services for movies and music pushing up prices and ultimately I own nothing.
A boring comment here just to say I agree with all your arguments for dropping Spotify. I had suspected the "ghost musician" issue based on personal experience with certain Spotify playlists, particularly ambient ones. I reckon it happens with other genres, but it seems most obvious to me there. Having that suspicion more or less confirmed feels like the straw breaking the camel's back for me. Another great video, as always, and I hope your shoulder feels better soon!
0:21 Matthew Halsall. I approve. 👍👍. Ditto the Gondwana label. One of my favourite labels. Solid line-up and release catalogue.
Apple Music on Apple TV works really well IMHO.
Apple Music on Apple TV4K can do Atmos on a home Atmos setup and this is the difference.
That’s how I stream my Apple Music
Update 18.2 adds 24/48khz much better 👍🏼 would absolutely love 24/192 on Apple TV.
"I find navigating Apple music on an Apple TV with an Apple TV Remote"
Jesus fucking christ. I mean, he's pointing out the biggest flaw with Apple without meaning to. Apple is great... if everything you own is Apple. Try and get something Apple to talk to something that isn't Apple and you're in for a shit time. This is exactly why I won't touch anything Apple related with a 10 foot pole.
THe only reason I susbscribe is that it introduces me to new music...... which I then go out and buy!
I'd rather buy a cd or lp than use these streaming services. It's more tactile.
Rather it’s true but lots isn’t available in those formats and shockingly sometimes worst.
Streaming services can not charge 50 bucks of monthly fee, this will reduce the subscribers pool by 99%