Babbitt Bearings - When Not to Pour New: Inspecting and Freshening Up Jointer Bearings
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2024
- Babbitt Bearings - When Not to Pour New: Inspecting and Freshening Up Jointer Bearings
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And old timer blacksmith trip hammer rebuilder once told us the following about grease vs oil for babbitts: "If the oil gets spun out, more can flow back in, but it grease gets spun out, there's no lube left".
You’re the high school teacher I wish I’d had in school. I learn from your videos!
I respect the way you keep things original.
Keith is where you go for practical solutions.
That was very interesting to this old fellow. I'm glad there is an old fellow that wants the old machines to run like they are meant to run.
In reference to the lock nuts on the bolts, they are there so that the bolt can be fully engaged into the threads and the nuts are for adjusting the bearing housing. Wouldn’t want partially engaged bolts with that rotational mass
Thanks for that! I was thinking in a similar route but your post filled in the last pieces that I lacked :-)
Studs would work perfectly as well. Most babbitt bearings I've ever seen use studs and nuts.
I was going to comment the exact same thing but you beat me to it.
Babbitt is still viable as a bearing material. The more you work with them the more comfortable you will get.
Yes . For hydrostatic bearings, like on your car engines where you have an oil pump…
This type of bearings, where the operator needs to oil it , are bad, because people don’t oil them, or too much oil and make just a mess…
One very old trick to use on a poured white metal bearing that is past its sell by date; is to lightly peen the worn surface to both produce dimples, but also raise the surface of the white metal. The bearing can then be blued to the shaft and then be scraped to fit. The dimples act as oil pockets. This was done on an eccentric bearing on a large marine 2 stroke diesel engine I sailed. I think the bearing was probabably 750mm in diameter. It kept the engine going and we didn't bother fitting a new bearing when we got to a European port, as on lifting and inspecting it, it looked to be in good condition still. As far as I know the ship went to scrap like that about 18 months later.
Great video, thanks for the education on Babbit!
I poured new babbit in a windmill, because it ran out of ole. It had thousandths of up/down for new ole to simply run out. It was a fun project.
When you had the shaft set up in the lathe, I was begging you to polish up the drum. My OCD was kicking in.
You're not alone.
Agreed. But then I suspect we may have watched too many Adam Booth videos.
The drum shouldn't be touching the wood, so it probably doesn't matter.
thanks for the education
HI Keith, great video as always. With reference to the oil filler holes, I used to work as a volunteer steam locomotive driver on a preserved railway here in the UK and we used corks with a hole drilled in them and a small diameter bamboo cane inserted to allow the oil to flow without letting dirt into the oilway.
Very interesting, my experience with Babbit Bearings is all on large HV electric motors (up to 23MW) we applied a different criteria regarding inspection and bearing condition, bearing journals were mic’d as were bearing bores with extremely tight tolerances and very defined clearances. This was to maximise running life and running condition of both motor and driven equipment ( due to the fact that the majority of motor failures are bearing related).
I totally enjoy your videos👍👍👍
A Maker's group-machine idle for 2 years-headed for return to service- fascinating & informative "turn" on the bearing issue- now that is a win-win-win! Great job! Someday maybe Bob will send us a clip of Makers putting it to work!
Nice! Thanks for sharing.
when I was an apprentice 50 years ago we had a 12" jointer like this. It had a power feed attached and I would run full width rough oak on it to flatten the pieces out. It would pound the cement and shake the whole shop. it had a threaded wood plug in the end that could be loosened and the head would actually float side to side. pretty cool feature but looking back, I have no idea what good it did to let it float like that. the motor was a huge open frame thing that sat on the floor under the huge table saw table. It was neglected for decades and finally caught on fire from all the sawdust that got packed into it.
There are lots of valuable insights on the treatment of Babbit Beariings that I've not heard before. Thanks, Keith!
Always a master class. Thank you, Keith.
You are the Babbitt man to go to for babbitt repair excellent tutorial love your channel
Thanks. I just learned a whole bunch about babbitt bearings. This is a great tutorial.🙂🙂
Thank you for explaining in more detail on Babbitt bearings. This video will really help me in my old J A & Fay 36" band saw restoration.
I get the feeling that he was very excited to pour new bearings and was there more for the experience than the actual job. Poor fella was probably saddened when he found out y’all weren’t gonna pour new bearings.
Sometimes just a little cleanup is all that's needed to get a part working smoothly, as Keith showed us.
yeha he got trolled hard. Probably had to pay too.
If being told extra work is unnecessary by an expert I’ll take being trolled all day.
Don't think so. Why would he want the expense of pouring and scraping in new bearings when the old ones are in good condition with many years of service left?
@@1marcelfilms that would be the little something the feller had for Keith at the end.
From an old machinery mechanic I learn to punch thebolt holes by using a small balllein hammer and tap lightly the gasket plced over the hole until the said hole is punched.
Me too whole gasket
Keith's method is correct. Using a hammer can disrupt {raise} the metal around the edge of the hole causing a raised area around the circumference of the hole resulting in an improper fit when the components are bolted together. If you insist on using the hammer technique use a flat file to remove the raised area before assembly.
I just want to add something we used for punching holes, Keith has a nice set of punches for punching out holes in the gasket material. What we would do in our shop is find a short piece of pipe (5-6 inches) that’s the same size as the hole you want, sharpen one end of the pipe on a bench grinder, sharpen it back about 1/2-3/4 of an inch and you have a quick punch. You could use a short pipe nipple of any size and make a cheap set of hole punches in your spare time.
They work on gasket material, thin shim stock, rubber, anything you want to try it on.
Another bit of learning done, thanks Keith
Thanks for educating us 🙏
Perfect job when all that is needed is a cleaning scraping and polishing .... and the right oil and preventive felt plugs for oil and covering open holes with felt also gaskets to take up gaps .... ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊 ....
Thanks Keith for another great video refurbishing vintage machinery!
Thanks Keith for the video, Alway something to learn.
A very informative video. And a good lesson for others in the same situation in the years to come.
I love it when you teach people instead of saying, shure we'll just make new bearings. Sometimes I believe that keeping something ad original as possible is best. Great video, Keith.
Good morning Keith! Thanks for the videos and have a great week.
I think it makes sense to use the screws with nuts in a blind hole as then you can tighten the screws all the way in, locking them in place, then adjusting the compression with the nuts as you did. I would think of that as a "better" way! 😀
Great job Keith, Saved another machine with only a bit of shop time. Owning a '12 Model T Ford we're very familiar with babbitt bearings. Of course the application is a bit different. A product called Timesaver is a very excellent one to use to fit the bearing to the shaft with a perfect 0.002" clearance. I was surprised you didn't give those shims a tap with the ball end of a ball peen hammer to mark or even make perfect holes in the shims as they set in place. Glad you pointed out against grease! Thanks again for a great video!
Excellent presentation. Thank you.
Great video! I think I would have gently cleaned up the oil grooves a bit, but they are probably fine. I would also suggest that they tap the oil reservoir fill holes for oil cups with spring loaded covers instead of wood plugs. The cups will be better at keeping trash out of the reservouir.
Great video. You are Awesomeness Extreme.
Bonjour Keith je regarde vos vidéo toujours de bon conseil
Happy Monday Georgia! 😊
Georgia, home of Fulton county, where they are proud that you can't get a fair trial!
Awesome as Always Really enjoyed this one... thank you
Thanks Keith; many moons ago, I purchased some scrapers from a NJ outdoor flea market, I was curious as to why they had the ellipsoid shape, now I know!
I’m the proud owner of a set of three Babbitt scraping scrapers. Cool! Great videos, keep em coming! Steve
Thank you Keith!
Keith, the adjustable bearing cover bolts are such perhaps because the original babbit was poured atop the flange of the cover and base as well and scraped, as wear/runout and realignment goes, a scraping of bearings was usually required and the flat flanged surface was scraped down as well, until it eventually was scraped off the flat areas and the adjustable bolts were there for it all.
Thank you for sharing.👍
Nice Keith Gift some sipping tea
Thanks Keith
Hi Keith, wonderful explanation of the babbitt principal.. I feel it's wonderful engineering with the caveat that experience was needed to the design parameter's , maintenance & environmental conditions to keep the machine running in that sweet spot.. lubrication viscosity, load factor.. you beat on it with impact overload (or dumb ass operators etc) you could kill it pretty quick! Thank you!
Great job.
We blacksmiths tend to use the heavier lube on our power hammers, the heat and shock load factor
I work on a lot of antique electric fans at my shop, Chestertown Electric.
An important warning: common 3-in-1 oil in the black bottle can make some motors lock up and not spin. I don’t know why, but I have seen it happen in two 1920’s Emerson Electric fans. Use 3-in-1 blue bottle electric motor oil or Zoom Spout Turbine oil. Both are commonly available at Ace, Home Depot, or Lowes.
Nice you could help them out!
Wow, love the opening scene, I so want to get hammered............😁
Good work.
The old machines are interesting
It would be fun to see this jointer in action, maybe they’ll send a short video so we can check it out.
The Stoker Engine would be very interesting!
Very interesting and quite informative. I have a 1930s lathe that I believe has Babbitt bearings in the headstock assembly. I will be checking the runout on it soon and with any luck will not need to do anything to them. However, if I do then I will know where to look for the correct way to service or recast them.
Thank you!
Would of thought that gasket material would compress to much for a good shim material? We always had brass shim stock on a roll to use for making shims. Always a different way to do things.
Thank you for another Great video. Cheers
Fun fact: the Sikorsky S-61 helicopter has Babbitt bearings on the input shaft of the main transmission.
Dont leave us hanging, what did he bring you?
When working in the garden there's a wonderful feeling when your hands are covered with the soil of the earth. When working with dirty, oily machines I prefer cheap gloves. Soil washes off easily while dirty oil clings forever. 21st century mechanics wear gloves.
very nice, thank you
I do hope you have a number of apprentices your knowledge must be passed on to the younger generations
Thats US.
The set screw and lock nut set up would allow you to not have the bolts too tight so to cause the caps to pinch the shaft and still not vibrate loose. They'll stay at the amount of tightness you set them to.
Thanks Keith, very educational as always.
I’m surprised that you didn’t do any plastic-gauge to confirm clearances.
Good morning
golf tees for the fill holes.
I'm a member of Knox Makers and I'm looking forward to seeing the machine in action.
Nice worj.
🎵
He's a real babbitt man
Working in his babbitt land
Making all those bearings
For somebody.
Babbitt man, keep pouring,
There's no way it's boring,
Babbitt man,
Please show us how it's done.
🎵
Keith, Wish you had mentioned that when using Wicks, the oil must have zero additives. A bunch of common oils have tackifiers added so that the oil will stick to parts better. Those tackifiers along with other additives will clog the wicks and block the capillary action that draws the oil from the journal to the axle surface.
Cool beans, comment for comments sake.
Nice repair Keith, thanks for sharing.
The easy and quick way to cut the gasket holes is to lay the gasket in position on the machine and tap the hole areas with a small ball-peen hammer. If it doesn't cut the hole out, it will mark accurately where it needs to be.
That is IF you don't have a nice set of hole punches!!!
Jack I was also surprised he didn't do that also. The best way to get perfect marked holes.
At 14:30 - I was thinking that Keith would use a transfer punch for these holes. But most likely this is not a high-tolerance issue.
Nothing he dose has tight tolerances !
Great Video and there is something about babbitt bearings if you keep them oiled they last forever !
Feed the RUclips algorithm with a comment. Great video. Thank you!
Cool
When that machine was built , they still used whale oil for lubrication. After all GM stopped using whale oil in its automatic transmissions around 1971.
Whale oil in GM transmissions, there aren't enough whales!
You need help!
@@garybrenner6236 look it up before you throw shade at me. The whale oil was an additive used in many industrial lubricants and hydraulic system until the international convention to out law whaling. Why do you think the whales were being harvested ?
The transmission fluid in my 1954 Olds was red just like now. Back then they actually filtered it and used it again. Might have had some whale oil in it?
@@ellieprice363 Could be. I have a 55 John Deere crawler that had whale oil in its hydraulic fluid, because it didn’t break down in the heat.
Babbit wears to the shape of the shaft over time. It's quite forgiving as long as it has lubrication.
I have a question nit related to this subject i couldnt find on google and since you are a man of vast knowledge maybe you can help me Keith. How is graphite bronze made? Is it alloy and you add graphite powder during smelting? I have seen some bushings made of bronze that have black spots of graphite and its called impregnated graphite bronze bushing.
I ask because i have the self centering bronze bushings in the stove fan and i was wondering if they were graphite or sintered bronze so that i know if i need to oil them or just clean them.Is there a difference in color?
Almost all bronze bushings that are commonly available (and almost all replacement bushings that are available) are called Oilite bushings (the base word is Oil - Lite) and these bushings are impregnated with oil/graphite so that if they get hot they start to lubricate the bushing. This is because the oil/graphite melts out of the cast bronze at a certain temperature and becomes the bushing's lubrication. If you are buying a bronze bushing from anywhere, it has this in it.
If it is a fan inside the oven, I guarantee you shouldn't lubricate it. If it is in a stove hood, it probably cant be oiled either, but it MIGHT not hurt (but I personally wouldn't do it). Any fan that is subject to high heat or potentially explosive vapors shouldn't be lubricated because the oil might be an ignition point. If you do lubricate it, put some light machine oil on a rag and wipe it on the shaft. Do not put something as big as a drop of oil on the shaft, it will cause problems.
Usually, if a fan starts making noise, it is better to replace it rather than try to fix it. Even if it does work, it probably won't work for long before it starts making noise again (there are a number of reasons for this). The short answer is to replace it, because it is usually cheaper than if you try to fix it.
A "man of vast knowledge" WOW!🧐🧐🧐
@@wackowacko8931 Its electric stove ,fan blows cold air from below that goes trough heaters so its not in direct contact with heat itself.
I definitely would have blued it to see it’s evenly bearing after the rough scraping. It may feel like it runs great but could be bearing on just a couple of points
It would be easy to chase your tail for several hours on something like this. An educated judgement of how the assembly “feels” after oil is added and nuts are adjusted is all that’s needed.
@@ellieprice363sorry but I disagree. This is a high rpm heavy shaft under interrupted loading with it being a planer head. Not sure how you’d chase your tail bluing and scraping a shaft fit but even it took a few hrs it’d be worth it. If that’s on a few points it’ll be overheating in no time
@@danieltaylor3611 The shaft was running at high speed In Babbitt bearings for some time before it was brought to Keith. Judging by the minimal wear shown it only needed some careful scraping and new wicks and oil for more years of service. The owner has obviously taken very good care of his planer. It really is a matter of judgment and how much time and money the repair warrants.
I took a Bearing Scraper (I inherited it from my Dad - I'm 60, now) to my Aviation Mechanic's school (When I was upgrading from my Air Force to Civilian qualifications), and asked if anybody knew what it was... I had ONE Instructor who did. I spent a Half Hour explaining Babbitt Bearings to the whole class - although I did tell them that they'd never see a babbitt bearing on a plane, they MIGHT if they work on old cars or machinery.
At first I thought, aww you're not going to give him brand new babit bearings.
Then I thought, if them old ones are 3/4 wore out, then that still gives you 1/4 to learn how to use them and get the longest life out of them. Once you learn that you can make brand new poured ones later on last the longest from the get-go. hands on experience.
Also I never thought what lubricant should or shouldn't be used with these bearing types.
I think what Keith is trying to is, They are going to Fine. Everything is going to be Fine. The bearings are going to be fine. Don't have to rework them they don't have to be reworked. There going to be fine.
I would have thought the caps would have been shimmed with brass or metal shim stock to give the correct pinch or clearance. If you use the adjustment you suggested, then surely you must use use properly tightened down studs with enough thread for a lock nut. ie two nuts. You would hardy leave big end cap securing nuts other than torqued to the correct figure, and in most cases split pinned, and yes I know the forces are different in these two cases but they still amount to one piece trying to let go from the other!!
Keith I really like all of your videos, but will you explain why you put shims in the bearings when the shaft was already running the shims would loosen the bearings
The cap needed shims under it as it would be too tight if bolted down without shims. The shaft should have a few thousandths of float to allow oil to flow around it.
Babbitt bearings are very forgiving as far as lubricants are concerned, but the old "3 in 1" oils often contained solvents so i wouldn't recommend them. Spindle oil as Keith said is probably the best choice.
😇
Need a bit more OóOóL
Does anyone think at 09:00 the bearings on that lathe sound a bit rough?
I think someone added the help nuts because they didn't want to make shims.
Keith, as you were talking about the wicks that needed to be in the lower bearings, did you make some and/or install them?
🎉 💙
Keith - I don't understand why the shims were needed (other than the top bearings would rock w/o them. Here's what I'm confused about. If the bearings, as they came in, I think they would have some wear on them causing the roller shafts to be loose-ish in the bearings due to wear. Adding shims to raise the top bearing seems to me that it would make the clearance between the shafts and the bearings even looser. I see that it worked well, but I don't understand why the shims wouldn't introduce more slop in the shaft to bearing diameters. Please let me know what I'm missing here.
Thanks!
And what is recommended for lubricating bronze bearings?
Oil or grease?
I have my hands on an antique 12” jointer and the bearings need to be poured but I don’t have the means to do that myself. What do you recommend to repair or replace the bearings?
Surely, if you felt the need to loosen the bolts as the bearings were too tight, the shims aren't thick enough?
.001 clearance per inch of shaft diameter is typical. Checking with PLASTIGAGE to check clearance would be the way to go. I think.
❤️🔥🫂❤️🔥