I bought the sE2200 because it was my understanding that Amy Winehouse used one. My wife Linda has a similar tone so I thought it would make sense that she (Linda) would sound good! 😃 I was right. And they all lived happily ever after!........
This is gold. I fell in love with tubes in the 90's. I had no choice - because digital without it sounds like shit. I have given this a lot of philosophical thought. I'll tell you why tube mics and tube pres make everything magic. And that is saturation. Harmonic saturation is life itself. Period. Without it, forget it. That is all. Don't fight it, don't question it, don't argue. Just immerse yourself in it.
Whats ur thoughts on solid state recording and then saturation in the box? Also, if we use saturated recordings, then add colored compressors and eqs in the box, is it possible to oversaturate the recording?
@@puvididdle Only your ears know. I'm sure it is possible. But you don't record a vocal with 5 tube mics and blend them all together, right? You use one. You use what is appropriate and sounds right to you. It is the accumulation of subtlties that makes the magic, it seems to me.
Marc pegged good tube mics correctly. Marc and Warren have their communication skills down to an uncanny science. I was working in a Studio with a standard U87 26 yrs ago when I first bought a tube mic...and I actually thanked God for the mic. Picked up the Lauten Eden tube mic bit over a year ago and it has different character settings on the mic, so it works great on just about any source. Have an old Rode Tube Classic 1 and still love that one. Both are quiet enough to record classical guitar or voice overs. Noise is what I noticed on cheap tube mics...I fixed noise issues on tracks from cheap tube mics weekly from other studios.
“Three dimensional “ . Thats a great description of the sound of a great tube mic. I started engineering in the ‘80’s in a studio with an awesome mic locker. I don’t miss splicing tape, but I really miss those mics!
I have no idea what does that mean. What does 3 dimensional mean? What are the dimensions?
3 года назад+3
@@aileaiho768 left right is panning, up down is high low frequencies and close far is, uhm, balanceof highs to lows, that makes your brain think the sound is distant (?) Yea sounds just a tad pretentious to me too
@ This mic is mono, so panning out of the question. I mean, I can imagine more detailed recording can make your brain imagine more details, including the position of the source in a room, I just can't think why would anybody call this as 'more 3d sound'.
Hi guys.. Not pretentious at all. Maybe if I said something like you have to have this 20K mic to get this sound. and clearly referenced a few 500 dollars mics in here to compare. I am speaking in terms of what a tube does to the signal. and what I mean by that is when recording say vocals with a tube mic vrs a solid state mic, time and time again the vocal sounds like its floating in between the speakers. Perhaps i could have used a different word other than 3D but honestly thats how I hear things..
Like someone commented on another video... "I see a video by Marc Daniel Nelson.. I instantly watch it and hit the Thumbs Up button" It's true... I've learned so much from this dude. Every video of his is awesome! Thanks Marc!
@@marcdanielnelson317 Hi Marc, I just received my ATC 45s, thanks again for the suggestion. I ordered them right before they went up $1500. QUESTION, you mentioned to put them on their back and do the quarter trick to check the phase using a plugin. If the phase were off, what would be the long-term solution, being there is no phase button on these monitors? As a side note, I know you said 6 feet is a good distance, in the room I am in, the best I can do is a little less than 5. I have an adam sub10 with them, I am hoping this is good enough as it’s the best I can do at the moment. Thanks for all your great content! -Chad
@@marcdanielnelson317 I tried them for the first time last night. I have never heard such clarity from any speakers, ever! Wow. I cranked them and went in the other room at one point and I could hear details I have never heard before, even from another room. We are so blessed to have monitors like these!!! Thanks again for all of your work! You do a great job teaching, I always look forward to Make. Mine. Music. 👍
4:32 what a monumentally eye (ear!) opening revelation: that using one mic on many sources will cause a frequency build-up because the EQ curve is the same each time. I never even considered that in the 30+ years I've been involved in writing/recording/performing. I knew certain mics excelled in certain applications but never thought about frequency build-up, similar to a room mode build-up, when using one mic to record everything with. I always believed a small selection of good quality mics is essential but also believed in the possibility that having one amazing mic would be good. I still want one amazing mic, but now I know that having mics that compliment each other in the final mix is an important consideration as well. Thank you, thank you!!
That outro was gorgeous... i was laying down listening to your eview... the closing words of passion alone were awesome - and then comes that cinematic vintage cue. Masterful. I feel rejuvenated.
@@marcdanielnelson317 I thought so - which makes it even better. I meant the emotion it triggered in me (although "vintage " isn't really emotion). Took me to a time & space..rather.
@@impulseproman I Just got the platinum edition V-251 from mic parts and from what I can hear on Audio kitchen it sounds just like a 251. I'm very impressed
I'm a bass singer. I found the C12-A (not the C12) to be incredible on my voice. It captures transients super fast, and when pushed hard, it doesn't get boxy. I haven't tried it on anything else, unfortunately. I love the U67 and M269C. (I don't know of anyone who doesn't.) Great on literally anything and everything. Can get a little bit boxy if I push it hard when singing, but absolutely brilliant!
Thanks again, Marc, really enjoy your chats. I also love tube mics for the same reasons you state. I know there are lots of affordable tube/clones out there today, but I discovered Advanced Audio and now have about 6 of their models, which are tributes to U47, U67, C12, and more. All are excellent quality for price and it's nice to have a choice to match the right mic with a singer, e.g. U47 for more presence, U67 to tame harshness, C12 for 'air' on a female vocal, etc. Highly recommended.
Shoot you guys. Just purchased a vintage Neumann CMV 563 off of Reverb because of this video. But it's gorgeous and comes with 2 different original capsules for $3,800!
UPDATE: 2 months later and this microphone SLAYS. It's a little bit thinner in the low end compared to both of my u47's, but the information is definitely there and can be brought out with EQ if needed. Since it has a more natural high-passed sound to it, I've been using it on acoustic guitars and backup vocals mostly, and I love it so much. Vocals stack so elegantly without a lot of lower mid buildup. They just sound super clean and alive. Definitely a great purchase based off a great recommendation, I was not familiar with this mic previous to this video.
Love tube mics. I first discovered them when we did a shoot out between a borrowed Soundelux U95 and a 414 buls. The U95 was so euphonic compared to the 414, we couldn’t let it leave the studio. We bought it on the spot. Tube mics, for me, are especially great on vocals. Recording digitally, they can be at times too harmonic on things like cymbals and other bright sources.
Here’s a good mic shoot out for you try any good or great condenser mics on overheads compared to any high-quality low mass (that is at or less than 1.8 µm) ribbon microphone, I suggest something like a pair of Varicoustic RCA Ribbon Mics on drum overheads. Becides never being “to harmonic” on the brightness, which all condenser mics are except maybe some that they are now trying to have sound more like ribbon mics ironically, the ribbons also move freely in a way diaphragm mics can’t because of backing plates and other architectural considerations. This adds 'shape' to the sound that’s unique to ribbons.
@@gordongurley3982 Yes, I need to re-ribbon my coles! I might ask Stephen Sank what the thinnest micron could be for them, get that super delicate transient response ribbons are so great for, I have one or 2 mics he put 1.1µm ribbons in and they're phenomenal!
@@gordongurley3982 I've been micing whole multi mic (up to 8 or so) drumsets with all-ribbons and it's just great if you choose the right ones (BK5s for close in) and position safely...the sound is so shapely in all ways!
One of my gear goals is to get the new Rupert Neve RNT tube mic from Se Electronics. It runs about $2500.00 and has received great reviews. I appreciate this talk. I want to have a few good tube mics for my locker and came away with some great tips. Thank you!
Great video , one of my all time favourite microphones is the SE Electronic Gemini II . As you say here it’s 3 dimensional and has such a wide scope with amazingly rich frequency response. I love it for vocals , Bass , drums guitars acoustics Cello double bass rooms I have modified it a bit changing valves a few capacitors and it still beats most other mics . I had an AKG solid tube one to, decent mic and very underrated
I have the pleasure of hanging out with the top engineer at Capitol in the early 2000’s for a bit and one of the cool stories was about to mics, a shocking story though, was about when the first transistor mics were coming in one could go out to the dumpster and hopefully pick out some of the beautiful Telefunken and such tube mics that were being tossed away! Of course the early transistor mics sounded horrible and we went through those very late 60s early 70s. when everything started sounding so tinny and terrible. Thankfully they did hang onto their old ribbon mics for the reliability aspect and the fact that they sounded just so great. Also my dad who used to play drums and percussion there for people like Frank Sinatra and Nelson Riddle and such and hundreds of other sessions had a funny story about them playing a trick on the engineers where they would blow cigarette smoke into a ribbon Mike, usually the big old 44s and yell for the engineer to come in, i’m sure the engineers were not very amused that cigarette smoke was depositing on the ribbon and such, might’ve contributed to the “warm“ sound of some of those mics though!
This is an incredibly useful video. We just had a remarkable experience with Bill Schnee mixing our upcoming single. The man is, quite simply, a genus.
We have a significant mic set of locker, of about 340 mic’s, and the Neumann M149 for tubes on PCM or tape, and the Sanken CUX 100-K for ultra pristine DSD256+ or PCM 192K+ are our two stands-out in the largest number of artists/clients’ opinions… and generally ours as well.
@@witnessthewrath8061 The one I built was indeed a kit from MicParts. It turned out great! It sounds amazing! Immeasurably better than my other cheap condenser mics. In figure of eight, the back side sounds a bit darker than the front side, but I usually use it cardioid anyway. It's not too difficult, but I wouldn't recommend the ELAM 251 kit for a beginner. The circuitry is simple enough, but wiring up the transformer and the tube and capsule is trickier than say, building a stomp box, where the circuitry might be more complex, but it's a single circuit board with a simpler housing than a mic cylinder.
I have recorded VO with the Neumann M49 and the mic preamp was a Chandler Germanium. The sound seemed to sound in three dimensions as you say. For me was like I was floating on top of a very large reverb. There was no need to process that! I have a Neumann u67 and it sounds great too. And it depends on the mic preamp, the room and the tube I use it the sound changes… Great video!
The only tube microphone(s) I've owned were Neumann M149s, which worked wonderfully on nearly everything. Not a vintage sound, I don't think, but clear and deep.
Thanks so much Marc. I'm a nut for mics as well. I don't own any high-dollar vintage mics. But I do have a pair of GrooveTube Am61's and I always reach for them for lead vocals. Thanks again.
Telefunken 251 is an amazing mic. Had the opportunity to use it a fair bit in the old days. Mainly on vocals. That and a remake of the C12. Not as good as the original but still pretty tasty. Dang... miss recording studios. :(
I honestly love the mixing on ur video. Every youtuber just puts the mic right at their face. Tbh their sound is just annoying, like someone speaking directly into your brain cells. That tiny bit of room in your audio is just 👌🏾The gate release 👌🏾 ur video editing is great too. No more random close up cuts. Im just fully immersed in what the video is about. Maybe u can do a tutorial to help with podcast and voice recording for videos. Im sure that will be relevant and helpful to many. Especially on RUclips. I imagine a future with no dry and booming, podcast and tutorial audio.
I’m very excited to see my AT4060 reviewed! It’s my only tube mic, bought new in the 90s. I think it was $1,300 incl tax and I was seriously questioning my sanity! I still LOVE that mic and use it mostly on vocals, acoustic guitar etc. Ah, all those high end mics… it’s like chasing unicorns for most peoples’ budgets. “One day” I always say!
Great video with a lot of knowledge that feels genuine and passionate. Great tube microphones of the recent era are very expensive, let alone the vintage offerings that I researched in a U48 at the financeable price of 32,000....lord have mercy. With that being said I also hope in the near future that the digital to analog pairing of hardware will offer a wider selection of authentic vintage tube mic emulation software for the common musician on a budget to enjoy these wonderful character tone of vintage tube microphones that are just about unattainable to most. Always looking forward to the next video journey of how the music that we cherish was created and the tools to achieve it!
Great video. I didn't know anything about the special pattern configuration of the M50. Very good information. I love to learn something new. The AT4060 are hard to find in Germany. I always wanted to try out one. I guess it's time to find one and give it a shot :-) Thank you, Marc and Warren.
I just recently discovered my love of tube mics when I started listening to more mic shootouts on youtube. When I get my next mic, it's gonna be a tube :) (most likely WA-251)
@@marcdanielnelson317 oooh no Mark,thank u for sharing a vibe and words that i can understand,everything u say is simple and it makes a great impact on me,i don't just learn it,i understand it,that is a huge difference
I've used the old AT 4050 CM5 for years but have been intending to pick up a good tube mic for awhile. I may easily go for the 4060. I wasn't really aware of it; thanks for speaking about it here.
Thanks for making sense of this, I own two 4060 they are awesome and I also got a modded solid tube, glad im barking up teh right tree mics wise without spending the $10K required for the vintage stuff.
Great vid Son. Well you have got some Knowledge going on in your head. I thought passion before you said it yourself. If you own all those microphones. Can I come and live in your garden or shed. Man do me a favour write a book on microphones. It would be fantastic. You had me captivated. May you live long and prosper.
Ok, I get it and I believe it.. I'm a Rode NT1 user for 20+ years I use it on Vocals and acoustic guitar cause it beats any of my dynamic mic's, this should show where my development stands (scrappy not extravagant). I've never used a tube mic maybe someday but I just dont feel comfortable having a single piece of 10000 dollar gear hanging above my recording desk in my back yard shed of a recording studio. However, I do use tube guitar amps as well as a leslie for some keys (like my hammon D and an old Korg CX3) there are no plug ins or solid state amps that can beat these things, yeah I love the tube amps. But these amps while great in sound are no where near the high ticket expense of the tube mics. Gets me thinking. So all that said, I do understand how tube amps work with regard to guitars and keys. I fix my own when they need it. My point is, whats missing for me in this discussion is, how do tube mics work, how do they capture and amplify sound, how do they power the capsule (if condenser) and what is the amplification routeing like in them. 12AX7? I get it, how does it get hit by the element. If I want to clone a Princeton I can download the schematics from a dozen different places. I'm not going to do that cause I have enough guitar stuff but its doable. The schematics for these old tube mics has got to be simpler than an old Fender amp? Or is there some magic thing that is unattainable in these circuits. Surely its not the same as running a powered condenser capsule through a tube pre-amp (I do this now). I might have to slip over to Uncle Dougs channel to see if he has something to say on this. Any amp builders out there have any thoughts on this?
I also have the Rode, but my first mic is an AKG Tube, two completely diffetent worlds. Although you should not use two different mics for stereo recordings, the way I do, I love using both on nylon string guitar at the same time.
I enjoyed this piece and I find his passion refreshing! Cant wait my U-47 custom coming tomorrow! GREAT PIECE! Your a character I'd love to meet you someday your my type of Geek in a very good way!
Would love to see a discussion/analysis of tube/ribbon mics, I don’t see enough options out there for these models that are high-quality and low noise enough, if we did have them I think people would start to get the picture of the ribbons and the unique architecture involved in that kind of element design that allows the element to move much more freely in the air, this gives a truer sound which we can now afford to record because of the transparency in our signal path as compared to the old days where pre-emphasis was so important to prevent signal loss especially in the highs. Now ironically, and tragically, the signal loss is in the hearing-loss that people are experiencing from a lifetime of listening to overly loud and overly brightly recorded music! (And sound effects soundtracks etc.)
@@davidroyer5049 hi David, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate you and your companies efforts in promoting and , I've been collecting ribbon mics since 1998, I prefer the lighter weight ribbons 1.8 µm and below, they just seem much more detailed and sweet especially in the high-end sound wise, I realize that the heavier ones are both more durable and easier to install/replace but I think there's a trade-off in sound quality. I do hope to audition the SF 24, I will look for some Sound samples, maybe you can steer me in that direction?
One of my favorite records of all time is Jellyfish Spilt Milk, which was recorded at Schnee’s studio. I’m very curious about the console and the room.
Custom console designed by Bill and Toby Foster. Mastering Lab preamps out in the room running line level back in to the control room. Room was magic. Just listen to "Brighter Day" when the toms come in.. MAGIC
Super interesting Daniel thanks for these videos, they are always the highlight of my day. By the way what’s the music at the end. Absolutely stunning.
Thank you so much for the new video with Marc Daniel Nelson. I think I can listen this man and learn from his experience and skills 24/7!! I'm wondering what he would say about software modeling microphones vs. original tube microphones? For example Slate Digital 251 vs. original 251, because he is the right person to try to compare. And please, could you be kind and make one more mixing video with Marc Daniel Nelson from start to end and also maybe how Marc doing mastering on song for CD and how for streaming services on same song. (InTheBox of course :) )
I have U47 clone done by Michael Jolly, he used to be HUGE on Gearspace forums, before they had "space" in their name ;-) It is literally a K47 (same as Neumann U47) capsule within a slick frame with a bigger holed grill (compared to regular Neumann mics) and it sounds PHENOMENAL. It is literally a capsule head that screws on a cheap pencil mic, any kind of pencil mic, such as MXL603s, and it sounds like Neumann U47, but without the tube. That man did samples, and in some ways his version sounded better than Neumann U47, in some ways original U47 shined more, but it was subtle difference. At 370 bucks that I paid for it, while that pencil mic came free with old MXL large condenser I purchased. Long story short you have almost identical frequency response, without spending 8 thousand bucks on U47. I can use bright pre-amps, and have zero sibilance. In fact I love to boost the highs on my SSL Alpha Channel pre-amp. U47/U67 mics shine in vocals, and hard to beat. With U47 needing the least amount of EQ, it just sits in the mix, while U87s mics always need some type of EQ, unless you record to tape, which has natural high frequency roll off, due to nature of reel tape. Frank Sinatra recorded 96% of his stuff with his own Neumann U47, and you know the presence of that K47 capsule on those old records, not just Sinatra's. He travelled with his own Neumann U47 around the country, and would bring it into studios to record. The other 4% of his recordings were using U67, which is a bit brighter mic. I am a huge fan of U47, as I hate eqing vocals. Because you can't EQ a vocal without losing something in another sound register. Harmonics spread across the frequency band with bright K87 capsuled mics. Which are about 90% of the microphone market, unless you go for clones of U47 or go above 1500 for a mic. That man is a genius. He is no longer in business, but that man modded so many mics by putting his own electronics and k47 or k67 capsules in them. Tubes are cool, but they also have downside. They are more muffled. Great U47 clone will not need tube to sound amazing. Getting clarity of modern mic, without harsh sibilance, and none of the tube cloudiness. I had tube mics, and while they sound amazing for singing, they sound like silk sheets over the speakers, some have more sheets over the speaker, some less. You can't make tube more clear than what it is capable of, but you can add tube plug in, or tube processing later. I tried different tube mics, and there is definitely some negatives in clarity with tube anything. Be that LA-2A compressor, or a Neumann anything mic with a tube. What is not discussed in the video is the fact that tube treats transients differently. Transients are less sharp (significantly) than a regular condenser. So if you record fast vocals, or fast staccato rap, you will have worse performance out of tube mic. Those transients will be more washed. The huge benefit of tube is that it distorts differently, and it saturates the sound at lower volumes uniquely. I still wouldn't go for tube mic for every vocal. It's easier to add "mud" than to remove it.
Using a Beesneez Lulu, tube SDC. Australian company using New old stock 60s tubes and capsules made at home by hand. Neumann km54 style I think. Put these on your toms and its all done. So cheap only 500 per mic. 3d very much.....beautiful punch. I have a royer 121 and this sits in the same high end quality for sure.
I borrowed an old Neuman U47 FET, many years ago, and I couldn't believe how fat my vocals sounded. Barely recognized my own voice. Couldn't afford to buy it, back then, sadly.
I think the beauty of these mics is that they were used by the biggest clunge bucket ever namely Himmler et co and then had a beautiful soulful black voice singing into em and they got confused between love and hate.
I’ve got a very interesting microphone, if I wanna put it that way, it’s an old Telefunken ELAM201 I think it’s the model, maybe, but it’s a ribbon mic that looks like something out of a science-fiction movie, it’s got a horizontal hoop magnet of some sort that makes up most of the body of it quite heavy and oversized, the scary thing is it came in a wooden box and if I look close enough there is one of those freaking Nazi symbols printed on it in a red stamp. The eagle on a swastika thing! I’ve never used it on a session and probably don’t plan to. I believe the seller who I got it from told me that it was “SWAG” which is 'spoils of war', I suppose I could sell it to Quentin Tarantino but I’m not a big fan. Sad thing is the mic sounds really great has a pronounced upper mid range that’s not unpleasant along with a wide frequency response in general and that’s unusual for a ribbon mic. Also the ribbon element is removable for field replacement I suppose. A unique mic which you sometimes will see on eBay orsuch.
How do you choose your microphones?
Just try and listen using the ones that we happen to have in hand
Alas, so far according to their financial capabilities. I want to buy something, but the amount for me is still unaffordable.
@@efnerva664 I just grab the nearest one and eq it until it sounds the way I like.
I bought the sE2200 because it was my understanding that Amy Winehouse used one. My wife Linda has a similar tone so I thought it would make sense that she (Linda) would sound good! 😃 I was right. And they all lived happily ever after!........
Listen to the source and then select a mic that I think might work to enhance certain aspects of what I am hearing from the source.
I absolutely LOVE these videos with Marc!!! Thank you so much PLaP for doing these and thank you Marc!
This is gold. I fell in love with tubes in the 90's. I had no choice - because digital without it sounds like shit. I have given this a lot of philosophical thought. I'll tell you why tube mics and tube pres make everything magic. And that is saturation. Harmonic saturation is life itself. Period. Without it, forget it. That is all. Don't fight it, don't question it, don't argue. Just immerse yourself in it.
Whats ur thoughts on solid state recording and then saturation in the box? Also, if we use saturated recordings, then add colored compressors and eqs in the box, is it possible to oversaturate the recording?
@@puvididdle Only your ears know. I'm sure it is possible. But you don't record a vocal with 5 tube mics and blend them all together, right? You use one. You use what is appropriate and sounds right to you. It is the accumulation of subtlties that makes the magic, it seems to me.
Right on Gregor
Is there a good clone for a good price of the u47 ?
Best tube mic under 2000 for folk songwriter vocals - think damien rice?
I sold almost everything i had to fund a vintage 1963 u67 and it was the best decision i ever made.. i have one vocal mic
Marc pegged good tube mics correctly. Marc and Warren have their communication skills down to an uncanny science. I was working in a Studio with a standard U87 26 yrs ago when I first bought a tube mic...and I actually thanked God for the mic. Picked up the Lauten Eden tube mic bit over a year ago and it has different character settings on the mic, so it works great on just about any source. Have an old Rode Tube Classic 1 and still love that one. Both are quiet enough to record classical guitar or voice overs. Noise is what I noticed on cheap tube mics...I fixed noise issues on tracks from cheap tube mics weekly from other studios.
Awesome Jeff.. just super. 🕺🏼🕺🏼
That’s just great.
Just when I had myself convinced that I didn’t need a U47...
Check the Vanguard v13. To my ears it’s pretty darn close. I don’t own one, but check audio test kitchen.
“Three dimensional “ . Thats a great description of the sound of a great tube mic. I started engineering in the ‘80’s in a studio with an awesome mic locker. I don’t miss splicing tape, but I really miss those mics!
I have no idea what does that mean. What does 3 dimensional mean? What are the dimensions?
@@aileaiho768 left right is panning, up down is high low frequencies and close far is, uhm, balanceof highs to lows, that makes your brain think the sound is distant (?)
Yea sounds just a tad pretentious to me too
@ This mic is mono, so panning out of the question. I mean, I can imagine more detailed recording can make your brain imagine more details, including the position of the source in a room, I just can't think why would anybody call this as 'more 3d sound'.
Hi guys.. Not pretentious at all. Maybe if I said something like you have to have this 20K mic to get this sound. and clearly referenced a few 500 dollars mics in here to compare. I am speaking in terms of what a tube does to the signal. and what I mean by that is when recording say vocals with a tube mic vrs a solid state mic, time and time again the vocal sounds like its floating in between the speakers. Perhaps i could have used a different word other than 3D but honestly thats how I hear things..
@@aileaiho768 Holographic.
Like someone commented on another video... "I see a video by Marc Daniel Nelson.. I instantly watch it and hit the Thumbs Up button"
It's true... I've learned so much from this dude. Every video of his is awesome! Thanks Marc!
Absolutely!!
Thanks, Paul! Having fun making them
@@marcdanielnelson317 Hi Marc, I just received my ATC 45s, thanks again for the suggestion. I ordered them right before they went up $1500. QUESTION, you mentioned to put them on their back and do the quarter trick to check the phase using a plugin. If the phase were off, what would be the long-term solution, being there is no phase button on these monitors?
As a side note, I know you said 6 feet is a good distance, in the room I am in, the best I can do is a little less than 5. I have an adam sub10 with them, I am hoping this is good enough as it’s the best I can do at the moment.
Thanks for all your great content!
-Chad
@@WhereAreWe7 Youll be fine. Just have fun setting it up. If you feel they are firing out of phase then i would suggest getting xlr cables reversed.
@@marcdanielnelson317 I tried them for the first time last night. I have never heard such clarity from any speakers, ever! Wow. I cranked them and went in the other room at one point and I could hear details I have never heard before, even from another room. We are so blessed to have monitors like these!!! Thanks again for all of your work! You do a great job teaching, I always look forward to Make. Mine. Music. 👍
Thank you for introducing Marc Daniels material to me. I truly enjoy his content
Beautifully summarized, thank you. Let the search begin!
Thanks for taking the time Mark.
the tattoo speaks "volumes" ! thanks for the primer
4:32 what a monumentally eye (ear!) opening revelation: that using one mic on many sources will cause a frequency build-up because the EQ curve is the same each time. I never even considered that in the 30+ years I've been involved in writing/recording/performing. I knew certain mics excelled in certain applications but never thought about frequency build-up, similar to a room mode build-up, when using one mic to record everything with. I always believed a small selection of good quality mics is essential but also believed in the possibility that having one amazing mic would be good. I still want one amazing mic, but now I know that having mics that compliment each other in the final mix is an important consideration as well. Thank you, thank you!!
Exactly!
I think this is the first video that he smiles. Love watching these lessons!
More power!
Love how you talk about them. You can really transmit your passion. Great Video!
That outro was gorgeous... i was laying down listening to your eview... the closing words of passion alone were awesome - and then comes that cinematic vintage cue. Masterful. I feel rejuvenated.
Not vintage! I recorded it 2 years ago :)
@@marcdanielnelson317 I thought so - which makes it even better. I meant the emotion it triggered in me (although "vintage " isn't really emotion). Took me to a time & space..rather.
This guy is a wealth of info! Always look forward to what he has to say.
I don't own any tube mics but I'd love to build one of those Microphone Parts C12 mics. One day!
Fantastic
Me too
@@impulseproman I Just got the platinum edition V-251 from mic parts and from what I can hear on Audio kitchen it sounds just like a 251. I'm very impressed
I'm a bass singer. I found the C12-A (not the C12) to be incredible on my voice. It captures transients super fast, and when pushed hard, it doesn't get boxy. I haven't tried it on anything else, unfortunately.
I love the U67 and M269C. (I don't know of anyone who doesn't.) Great on literally anything and everything. Can get a little bit boxy if I push it hard when singing, but absolutely brilliant!
Thanks again, Marc, really enjoy your chats. I also love tube mics for the same reasons you state. I know there are lots of affordable tube/clones out there today, but I discovered Advanced Audio and now have about 6 of their models, which are tributes to U47, U67, C12, and more. All are excellent quality for price and it's nice to have a choice to match the right mic with a singer, e.g. U47 for more presence, U67 to tame harshness, C12 for 'air' on a female vocal, etc. Highly recommended.
Marc’s videos are awesome. Please keep them coming
I own a Rode NTK which is beautifully made in Australia & sounds wonderful!
Marc is the best! This channel is the best! Thank you so much Warren and Marc!
Your passion and knowledge about tube mics was inspiring! Thanks for sharing!
Shoot you guys. Just purchased a vintage Neumann CMV 563 off of Reverb because of this video. But it's gorgeous and comes with 2 different original capsules for $3,800!
UPDATE: 2 months later and this microphone SLAYS. It's a little bit thinner in the low end compared to both of my u47's, but the information is definitely there and can be brought out with EQ if needed. Since it has a more natural high-passed sound to it, I've been using it on acoustic guitars and backup vocals mostly, and I love it so much. Vocals stack so elegantly without a lot of lower mid buildup. They just sound super clean and alive. Definitely a great purchase based off a great recommendation, I was not familiar with this mic previous to this video.
I bought a Neumann M147 in 2000 and love it. Great on vocals, Bass guitar, overheads and rooms.
So convincing with his voice alone.
Love tube mics. I first discovered them when we did a shoot out between a borrowed Soundelux U95 and a 414 buls. The U95 was so euphonic compared to the 414, we couldn’t let it leave the studio. We bought it on the spot. Tube mics, for me, are especially great on vocals. Recording digitally, they can be at times too harmonic on things like cymbals and other bright sources.
Here’s a good mic shoot out for you try any good or great condenser mics on overheads compared to any high-quality low mass (that is at or less than 1.8 µm) ribbon microphone, I suggest something like a pair of Varicoustic RCA Ribbon Mics on drum overheads. Becides never being “to harmonic” on the brightness, which all condenser mics are except maybe some that they are now trying to have sound more like ribbon mics ironically, the ribbons also move freely in a way diaphragm mics can’t because of backing plates and other architectural considerations. This adds 'shape' to the sound that’s unique to ribbons.
@@TiqueO6 I wish I had a pair of Coles for this purpose! Always love the sound of them on OHs.
@@gordongurley3982 Yes, I need to re-ribbon my coles! I might ask Stephen Sank what the thinnest micron could be for them, get that super delicate transient response ribbons are so great for, I have one or 2 mics he put 1.1µm ribbons in and they're phenomenal!
@@gordongurley3982 I've been micing whole multi mic (up to 8 or so) drumsets with all-ribbons and it's just great if you choose the right ones (BK5s for close in) and position safely...the sound is so shapely in all ways!
One of my gear goals is to get the new Rupert Neve RNT tube mic from Se Electronics. It runs about $2500.00 and has received great reviews.
I appreciate this talk. I want to have a few good tube mics for my locker and came away with some great tips. Thank you!
Great video , one of my all time favourite microphones is the SE Electronic Gemini II . As you say here it’s 3 dimensional and has such a wide scope with amazingly rich frequency response. I love it for vocals , Bass , drums guitars acoustics Cello double bass rooms
I have modified it a bit changing valves a few capacitors and it still beats most other mics . I had an AKG solid tube one to, decent mic and very underrated
I have the pleasure of hanging out with the top engineer at Capitol in the early 2000’s for a bit and one of the cool stories was about to mics, a shocking story though, was about when the first transistor mics were coming in one could go out to the dumpster and hopefully pick out some of the beautiful Telefunken and such tube mics that were being tossed away! Of course the early transistor mics sounded horrible and we went through those very late 60s early 70s. when everything started sounding so tinny and terrible.
Thankfully they did hang onto their old ribbon mics for the reliability aspect and the fact that they sounded just so great. Also my dad who used to play drums and percussion there for people like Frank Sinatra and Nelson Riddle and such and hundreds of other sessions had a funny story about them playing a trick on the engineers where they would blow cigarette smoke into a ribbon Mike, usually the big old 44s and yell for the engineer to come in, i’m sure the engineers were not very amused that cigarette smoke was depositing on the ribbon and such, might’ve contributed to the “warm“ sound of some of those mics though!
So cool to see the Sheffield Lab/Mastering Lab mic mentioned. I grew up listening to those D2D albums and they still sound incredible.
Spreading the word my dude.. :)
This is an incredibly useful video. We just had a remarkable experience with Bill Schnee mixing our upcoming single. The man is, quite simply, a genus.
We have a significant mic set of locker, of about 340 mic’s, and the Neumann M149 for tubes on PCM or tape, and the Sanken CUX 100-K for ultra pristine DSD256+ or PCM 192K+ are our two stands-out in the largest number of artists/clients’ opinions… and generally ours as well.
That's why I built a clone of an ELAM 251, because I wanted that tube mic sound, but couldn't afford it.
How did it turn out? Thinking about getting one from mic parts
@@witnessthewrath8061 The one I built was indeed a kit from MicParts. It turned out great! It sounds amazing! Immeasurably better than my other cheap condenser mics. In figure of eight, the back side sounds a bit darker than the front side, but I usually use it cardioid anyway. It's not too difficult, but I wouldn't recommend the ELAM 251 kit for a beginner. The circuitry is simple enough, but wiring up the transformer and the tube and capsule is trickier than say, building a stomp box, where the circuitry might be more complex, but it's a single circuit board with a simpler housing than a mic cylinder.
I have recorded VO with the Neumann M49 and the mic preamp was a Chandler Germanium. The sound seemed to sound in three dimensions as you say. For me was like I was floating on top of a very large reverb. There was no need to process that! I have a Neumann u67 and it sounds great too. And it depends on the mic preamp, the room and the tube I use it the sound changes… Great video!
Out of the hundred or so mics I've been through my Rode K2 is still my go to for most things.
Wow this is perfect timing I've been looking to purchase my first tube Mic so now I can get some information thank you Mark Daniel Nelson!
Great video! Thanks again for giving us so many learning experiences!
Absolutely i do agree that all ! I`d build a C12 Clone and also i use an AKG Solidtube with a self made mod - good Sound !
Really interesting and useful video Marc. Top stuff.
Thanks for this. Loving the content. We need more of this!
The only tube microphone(s) I've owned were Neumann M149s, which worked wonderfully on nearly everything. Not a vintage sound, I don't think, but clear and deep.
Really respect your opinion on music & recording. Thanks so much
Thanks ever so much! I really appreciate it
not a mic connoisseur but i really enjoyed this...the passion is amazing
His chin is just magical
Great info, Marc. I'm on the hunt for the Solidtube as I type this. Cheers!
Thanks so much Marc. I'm a nut for mics as well. I don't own any high-dollar vintage mics. But I do have a pair of GrooveTube Am61's and I always reach for them for lead vocals. Thanks again.
I have a avatone c12 tube mic...loveit. It's not a vintage real deal but for my budget it's great.
I am very happy with both my Rode NTK and K2. Believe it or not : the NTK sounds stellar on Bassdrum......
Amazing as always man!
Thanks Marc, great stuff
Telefunken 251 is an amazing mic. Had the opportunity to use it a fair bit in the old days. Mainly on vocals. That and a remake of the C12. Not as good as the original but still pretty tasty. Dang... miss recording studios. :(
I honestly love the mixing on ur video. Every youtuber just puts the mic right at their face. Tbh their sound is just annoying, like someone speaking directly into your brain cells. That tiny bit of room in your audio is just 👌🏾The gate release 👌🏾
ur video editing is great too. No more random close up cuts. Im just fully immersed in what the video is about.
Maybe u can do a tutorial to help with podcast and voice recording for videos. Im sure that will be relevant and helpful to many. Especially on RUclips.
I imagine a future with no dry and booming, podcast and tutorial audio.
I’m very excited to see my AT4060 reviewed! It’s my only tube mic, bought new in the 90s. I think it was $1,300 incl tax and I was seriously questioning my sanity! I still LOVE that mic and use it mostly on vocals, acoustic guitar etc. Ah, all those high end mics… it’s like chasing unicorns for most peoples’ budgets. “One day” I always say!
you still want to upgrade after having AT4060? also I checked the price, currently $1,700, but he said $600 in the video!
I want one... Thanks Marc
Yes!! Love your vids man!
Great video with a lot of knowledge that feels genuine and passionate. Great tube microphones of the recent era are very expensive, let alone the vintage offerings that I researched in a U48 at the financeable price of 32,000....lord have mercy. With that being said I also hope in the near future that the digital to analog pairing of hardware will offer a wider selection of authentic vintage tube mic emulation software for the common musician on a budget to enjoy these wonderful character tone of vintage tube microphones that are just about unattainable to most. Always looking forward to the next video journey of how the music that we cherish was created and the tools to achieve it!
Great video. I didn't know anything about the special pattern configuration of the M50. Very good information. I love to learn something new.
The AT4060 are hard to find in Germany. I always wanted to try out one. I guess it's time to find one and give it a shot :-)
Thank you, Marc and Warren.
I just recently discovered my love of tube mics when I started listening to more mic shootouts on youtube. When I get my next mic, it's gonna be a tube :) (most likely WA-251)
Tremendous descriptions, excellent presentation !
Only the forced advert pushed me away, but appreciate the perspective on these microphones
enjoyable video,I'm really happy when i see this guy,i always learn something new
Thank you, Mio. Nice of you to say.
@@marcdanielnelson317 oooh no Mark,thank u for sharing a vibe and words that i can understand,everything u say is simple and it makes a great impact on me,i don't just learn it,i understand it,that is a huge difference
Ilove that you love the solidtube. It's my favourite mic.
I really enjoyed this, thanks!
Great channel with outstanding information and mic history, I love Flea Mic's as well and and use a Neumann U67 Reissue with an upgraded 806S Tube,
I've used the old AT 4050 CM5 for years but have been intending to pick up a good tube mic for awhile. I may easily go for the 4060. I wasn't really aware of it; thanks for speaking about it here.
They are amazing.
Thanks for making sense of this, I own two 4060 they are awesome and I also got a modded solid tube, glad im barking up teh right tree mics wise without spending the $10K required for the vintage stuff.
Right on Jason.
I have a groove tubes GT66. It is legit my favorite mic for vocals.
Great vid Son. Well you have got some Knowledge going on in your head. I thought passion before you said it yourself. If you own all those microphones. Can I come and live in your garden or shed. Man do me a favour write a book on microphones. It would be fantastic. You had me captivated. May you live long and prosper.
...But RIBBONS!!
Ribbons go places no mics do go!
Ribbons and small diaphragm omnidirectional Condenser mics are the most natural sounding microphones in the world!
Ah yes! The only 'real microphones' as some of us like to say.
1:56 That’s what she said.... I HAD TO!
Awesome video though! Keep these coming :)
💀💀💀
Lol
Fantastic podcast
Thanks ever so much!
I have to totally agree with this video 100 percent
Marvellous
“It looks just like a Telefunken U-47.”
“With leather?”
Joe’s Garage, Frank Zappa
Love that tune
You'll love it. It's a way of life....
Great Video! 📻 Explained very well
Ok, I get it and I believe it.. I'm a Rode NT1 user for 20+ years I use it on Vocals and acoustic guitar cause it beats any of my dynamic mic's, this should show where my development stands (scrappy not extravagant). I've never used a tube mic maybe someday but I just dont feel comfortable having a single piece of 10000 dollar gear hanging above my recording desk in my back yard shed of a recording studio.
However, I do use tube guitar amps as well as a leslie for some keys (like my hammon D and an old Korg CX3) there are no plug ins or solid state amps that can beat these things, yeah I love the tube amps. But these amps while great in sound are no where near the high ticket expense of the tube mics. Gets me thinking.
So all that said, I do understand how tube amps work with regard to guitars and keys. I fix my own when they need it.
My point is, whats missing for me in this discussion is, how do tube mics work, how do they capture and amplify sound, how do they power the capsule (if condenser) and what is the amplification routeing like in them. 12AX7? I get it, how does it get hit by the element. If I want to clone a Princeton I can download the schematics from a dozen different places. I'm not going to do that cause I have enough guitar stuff but its doable.
The schematics for these old tube mics has got to be simpler than an old Fender amp? Or is there some magic thing that is unattainable in these circuits. Surely its not the same as running a powered condenser capsule through a tube pre-amp (I do this now). I might have to slip over to Uncle Dougs channel to see if he has something to say on this.
Any amp builders out there have any thoughts on this?
I also have the Rode, but my first mic is an AKG Tube, two completely diffetent worlds. Although you should not use two different mics for stereo recordings, the way I do, I love using both on nylon string guitar at the same time.
Great music on the outro of that video.
Great video! I’m learning stuff. 😃
My first tube/valve microphone was the Royer from tape op magazine
I enjoyed this piece and I find his passion refreshing! Cant wait my U-47 custom coming tomorrow! GREAT PIECE! Your a character I'd love to meet you someday your my type of Geek in a very good way!
This has to be the only video about how microphones sound that doesn't include audio examples. ;-)
Would love to see a discussion/analysis of tube/ribbon mics, I don’t see enough options out there for these models that are high-quality and low noise enough, if we did have them I think people would start to get the picture of the ribbons and the unique architecture involved in that kind of element design that allows the element to move much more freely in the air, this gives a truer sound which we can now afford to record because of the transparency in our signal path as compared to the old days where pre-emphasis was so important to prevent signal loss especially in the highs. Now ironically, and tragically, the signal loss is in the hearing-loss that people are experiencing from a lifetime of listening to overly loud and overly brightly recorded music! (And sound effects soundtracks etc.)
Investigate the ROYER tube ribbon mikes (R-122v and SF-24v) They are expensive but very nice. (My apologies for blowing my own horn)
@@davidroyer5049 hi David, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate you and your companies efforts in promoting and , I've been collecting ribbon mics since 1998, I prefer the lighter weight ribbons 1.8 µm and below, they just seem much more detailed and sweet especially in the high-end sound wise, I realize that the heavier ones are both more durable and easier to install/replace but I think there's a trade-off in sound quality.
I do hope to audition the SF 24, I will look for some Sound samples, maybe you can steer me in that direction?
I use the Rode NTK and swear it's magic. One day I'll afford one of the pricier classics.
Had one of these and modded it with a Telefunken tube which smoothened the high end. I didn't have the balls to mod the capsule
One of my favorite records of all time is Jellyfish Spilt Milk, which was recorded at Schnee’s studio. I’m very curious about the console and the room.
Custom console designed by Bill and Toby Foster. Mastering Lab preamps out in the room running line level back in to the control room. Room was magic. Just listen to "Brighter Day" when the toms come in.. MAGIC
Super interesting Daniel thanks for these videos, they are always the highlight of my day. By the way what’s the music at the end. Absolutely stunning.
Thank you so much for the new video with Marc Daniel Nelson. I think I can listen this man and learn from his experience and skills 24/7!!
I'm wondering what he would say about software modeling microphones vs. original tube microphones? For example Slate Digital 251 vs. original 251, because he is the right person to try to compare. And please, could you be kind and make one more mixing video with Marc Daniel Nelson from start to end and also maybe how Marc doing mastering on song for CD and how for streaming services on same song. (InTheBox of course :) )
I have U47 clone done by Michael Jolly, he used to be HUGE on Gearspace forums, before they had "space" in their name ;-)
It is literally a K47 (same as Neumann U47) capsule within a slick frame with a bigger holed grill (compared to regular Neumann mics) and it sounds PHENOMENAL.
It is literally a capsule head that screws on a cheap pencil mic, any kind of pencil mic, such as MXL603s, and it sounds like Neumann U47, but without the tube.
That man did samples, and in some ways his version sounded better than Neumann U47, in some ways original U47 shined more, but it was subtle difference.
At 370 bucks that I paid for it, while that pencil mic came free with old MXL large condenser I purchased.
Long story short you have almost identical frequency response, without spending 8 thousand bucks on U47. I can use bright pre-amps, and have zero sibilance. In fact I love to boost the highs on my SSL Alpha Channel pre-amp.
U47/U67 mics shine in vocals, and hard to beat. With U47 needing the least amount of EQ, it just sits in the mix, while U87s mics always need some type of EQ, unless you record to tape, which has natural high frequency roll off, due to nature of reel tape.
Frank Sinatra recorded 96% of his stuff with his own Neumann U47, and you know the presence of that K47 capsule on those old records, not just Sinatra's. He travelled with his own Neumann U47 around the country, and would bring it into studios to record.
The other 4% of his recordings were using U67, which is a bit brighter mic.
I am a huge fan of U47, as I hate eqing vocals. Because you can't EQ a vocal without losing something in another sound register. Harmonics spread across the frequency band with bright K87 capsuled mics. Which are about 90% of the microphone market, unless you go for clones of U47 or go above 1500 for a mic.
That man is a genius.
He is no longer in business, but that man modded so many mics by putting his own electronics and k47 or k67 capsules in them. Tubes are cool, but they also have downside. They are more muffled. Great U47 clone will not need tube to sound amazing. Getting clarity of modern mic, without harsh sibilance, and none of the tube cloudiness.
I had tube mics, and while they sound amazing for singing, they sound like silk sheets over the speakers, some have more sheets over the speaker, some less.
You can't make tube more clear than what it is capable of, but you can add tube plug in, or tube processing later. I tried different tube mics, and there is definitely some negatives in clarity with tube anything. Be that LA-2A compressor, or a Neumann anything mic with a tube.
What is not discussed in the video is the fact that tube treats transients differently. Transients are less sharp (significantly) than a regular condenser. So if you record fast vocals, or fast staccato rap, you will have worse performance out of tube mic. Those transients will be more washed.
The huge benefit of tube is that it distorts differently, and it saturates the sound at lower volumes uniquely.
I still wouldn't go for tube mic for every vocal. It's easier to add "mud" than to remove it.
The technica 4060 I saw was about $1700 is that the one your talking about?
I have rode K2 that I replaced the capsule and I replaced the some coupling capacitors
Using a Beesneez Lulu, tube SDC. Australian company using New old stock 60s tubes and capsules made at home by hand. Neumann km54 style I think.
Put these on your toms and its all done. So cheap only 500 per mic. 3d very much.....beautiful punch. I have a royer 121 and this sits in the same high end quality for sure.
4:19 Wow Incredible Al Schmitt mimicry😍😂
Dallas Upton makes an incredible 251 recreation if its in anyones budget. Highly recommend
Great video! I've started building up a mic locker to cover several applications. Have my eye on a couple U47 and 251 tube clones. :)
I borrowed an old Neuman U47 FET, many years ago, and I couldn't believe how fat my vocals sounded. Barely recognized my own voice.
Couldn't afford to buy it, back then, sadly.
Now to say the thing that is perhaps contentious… fun to hear your thoughts on the modeling mics. 😵💫
Fascinating stuff. Thank you.
Thanks ever so much!
Amen my Man!
Thanks Manny!
Great knowlegeable video for peofessinal recording studios.
Boy you've got that high-end 1965-75 3D cinema style audio wired. (No pun) Thanks for the tips BC I love it.
I think the beauty of these mics is that they were used by the biggest clunge bucket ever namely Himmler et co and then had a beautiful soulful black voice singing into em and they got confused between love and hate.
I’ve got a very interesting microphone, if I wanna put it that way, it’s an old Telefunken ELAM201 I think it’s the model, maybe, but it’s a ribbon mic that looks like something out of a science-fiction movie, it’s got a horizontal hoop magnet of some sort that makes up most of the body of it quite heavy and oversized, the scary thing is it came in a wooden box and if I look close enough there is one of those freaking Nazi symbols printed on it in a red stamp. The eagle on a swastika thing! I’ve never used it on a session and probably don’t plan to. I believe the seller who I got it from told me that it was “SWAG” which is 'spoils of war', I suppose I could sell it to Quentin Tarantino but I’m not a big fan.
Sad thing is the mic sounds really great has a pronounced upper mid range that’s not unpleasant along with a wide frequency response in general and that’s unusual for a ribbon mic. Also the ribbon element is removable for field replacement I suppose. A unique mic which you sometimes will see on eBay orsuch.