Thanks for the feedback! As the other person said, background tracks in the footage needs cleaning up sometimes which is why we threw it in but I’ll make sure it’s mixed better in the future. - griffin
It's the way to market EVs to American drivers, especially rural drivers. It's a practical solution to ease people into EVs. Even though most suburban drivers that have multiple cars and a garage suitable for home charging, a BEV will fit their needs for commuting, they still have range anxiety, and an EREV will appeal to them too. But as public EV charging infrastructure improves over time, EREVs will become less and less desirable for "range anxiety commuters", but will still have a niche that certain drivers need filled, so I expect that they'll still be around decades from now.
This Ramcharger is a good concept, but I almost feel like the battery is still too large on it. Even on this range extending platform, it's battery is nearly the same size as the pure EV Lightning's standard range battery. Maybe 60kwh is a more suitable size to reduce weight even further but still provide enough for the day to day while having good reserve for towing.
Plug-in hybrids/EREVs seem like a good idea but finding the right balance between the two power sources is quite subjective and difficult. How much range do most people really need? How big of a generator is really needed? If you need to use the generator every day, I would argue that it is not a good fit. Not only are you trying to limit the weight and size of the battery but also of the engine. Too small of a battery and electric range will not be good enough. Also, from an efficiency standpoint, the mechanical energy from an ICE transformed into electrical energy then converted back into mechanical energy to drive the car is not as efficient as the ICE being able to directly power the wheels. Many plug-in hybrids can do this but the concept of EREVs foregoes this efficiency advantage over packaging and simplicity. EREVs are essentially series hybrids with a big battery. I would be curious to see if efficiency could be less of an issue in reality, as engine operating parameters can be precisely controlled. If the engine is essentially running at high load (high efficiency) at almost all operating times, would that counteract the efficiency loss enough to make them competitive with a plug-in hybrid engine that can power wheels mechanically? That is what I want to know. If the efficiency is close, I could see EREVs being a very viable direction. On the battery side, if a battery can be kept small enough that you can reliably charge it to 100% overnight using a standard outlet rather than requiring a large appliance outlet, that would make changing much more accessible and cheaper for consumers which is a great advantage. Battery use, assuming it is prioritized by the user, may offset any inefficiency from the occasional use of the generator.
The idea of battery size adjusted for standard outlet used overnight is really worth further investigation. According to my very basic calculations with european standard outlet able to deliver 2kWh/h and assuming 12h available for recharge sufficient energy for traveling 100km/62 miles in full electric mode can be stored overnight.
Have a PHEV and I plug in nightly. Except when I forget. Runs like new even with 150k miles. I get 50-100mpg. I don't know what the future holds, but I don't think BEV is the answer for the majority of US drivers.
300 miles only?! I love it. I cant function on a 300 mi range in life let alone less. I have this gas engine that I just .... add more gas and now I just keep goin. E revs are a better step. Cant function in an ev. Too short
Charging rates are getting pretty quick these days. There will always be the niche situation like towing or certain work requirements that make it not as palatable but for the most part charging rates makes it not a big issue at all.
@ALMX5DP can I get 1200 miles a day oyt of it? Thats what I need. Less is useless. Can I go from ny state to Texas and back in 55 hrs? Thats what I need. Less than that is dumb and restrictive and if you say "You shouldnt need that,"my reply will be "go fuck yourself communist, just cause youre lazy doesnt mean I am"
@ALMX5DP not til lithiums out and capacitors are in. 5 mins and Im full of gas and ready to go another 500 miles. What a way to waste a life waitin for pixies to enter a battery. Capacitors are the only way to duplicate petrol engines
@@aaronk534 many EV owners save time on a daily basis by not even having to wait 5 minutes for a "fill up" since they charge at home when they are eating, sleeping and working around the house. They have to give some of that back if they go on lengthy roadtrips but all in all I think most EV drivers actually save time in a year versus owning an ICE.
2 diesels (Ram3500 and Wrangler)- 4 gas (Jeep grand Cherokee, Miata, a/c cobra and Shelby gt500 convertible) - one electric (Tesla model 3 Performance) - each has its merits - still I think pure electric is the future of cars… I have no interest in a hybrid. I Use my Ram Truck to tow a 42 ft boat and travel on trips (Mega Cab is the Best!) Grand Cherokee can tow 6900lbs - (most boats to 25 ft) The Wrangler gets 26 mpg in the city - Rubicon - purely for fun as are the other 3 cars… Build a Ram 3500 Electric
Too many generalizations without specific examples with math. Your assumption seems to think that battery costs and tech are static. That is false as the EV space is moving way faster in charging and drop in battery costs. Why is there a 100 percent tariff on Chinese EV's? Because it's comparable to ICE vehicles in MSRP? For ICE vehicle to improve, a manufacturer spends 1+ billion dollars and get in return maybe 1 mpg better and 5-20 hp with marginal gains in ac c elevation if not offset by a weight gain with the new design. No mention of battery chemistries in this video as over half of the Chinese EV's uses lithium iron phosphate batteries which has no cobalt, nickel, or manganese. Uses mostly common materials. In Eldorado, Arkansas, they're using a Direct Lithium Extraction method, a closed loop pipe to get Lithium out of the aquifier. The field in EV moves fast and those that cling to older ideas are getting dated.
Exactly. I had to laugh at all the self-corrections and conditions being displayed. Ok, so for the people in large trucks doing long distances while towing and *think* they'll be going on a roadtrip once in the next 8 years and don't like the outside world so don't want to step out but do want to hear that V6 (why a V6???) sound... This is the product. For now. And he's talking about the massive weight. Yeah, engine surely doesn't add weight. Oh and price. Yeah, trucks have been so cheap lately. No word about how an engine is still a bunch of tightly moving parts that does need maintenance which is an added cost... (No just swapping oil is unlikely to make it the lifetime of the vehicle) This is all a big advertisement and a bad one at that.
@@Debruineo Also, yes, weight. 100kWh of battery weighs more than an engine hooked to a generator; that's just a fact. And it also costs more; that's just a fact.
@@Debruineo They're not corrections, they're NUANCE. I realize nuance is dead on the internet, but I'm an engineer who deals with facts, so nuance is a must. Read the full article at the link in the description - I cover everything you mention thoroughly.
@@davidtracy3058 Your marketing story is correct for now for a niche group. And it’s in no way, shape or form good for the environment. That’s also nuance
I really disagree. GM went all in on this with the Volt, the i3 went this route and they were both compelling offerings but the public didn't see them that way at all. Americans do buy PHEVs when they can get a deal and a tax credit, but those tax credits are likely going away next year. Those same Americans then don't actually plug in their PHEVs. We have tons of PHEVs on the market and sales are very low. BEV is the future for people who are concerned about efficiency or tailpipe emissions. Regular hybrids have helped the normal boring new car buyer get something a bit more efficient, that's a mild success. PHEVs were a good compromise when battery tech and charging availability wasn't very good. And for cheapskates, e-bikes are really crushing it, with the best environmental impact, not getting stuck in traffic, easy to park, cheap to charge, etc.
The i3 and Volt aren't representative, really. They were in a class of car that Americans don't buy anyway (small cars). Ram says it expects a plug-in rate of 75% miles traveled. The issue with current PHEVs is that they don't offer enough range. (The ICCT covers much of this, and the advantages of a high-range PHEV over a low-range one). Ram thinks performance advantages (combined with not having to fill up at the gas station) will persuade buyers over pure ICEs. But as you note, it's gonna come down to pricing, which should be interesting. Automakers will have to meet strict CARB requirements anyway, so EREVs are coming no matter what, and hopefully will lead to less of a loss-per-unit for automakers than BEVs. More here (thank you for your comment!): www.theautopian.com/the-future-of-the-auto-industry-is-electric-with-a-gasoline-backup/
The public is pretty ignorant though when it comes to actually knowing what a good solution is. Just takes education and market presence to help people with this type of paradigm shift.
@@theautopian1551 I'll just say, the three people I know that own mild PHEVs, none of them plug theirs in at all. That may make sense with tax incentives but why should automakers add all the plug-in hardware when owners don't actually take advantage? And if you are going to take advantage and you're willing to get a home charging setup working, why not just go full BEV? Much simpler drivetrain.
@@davidsixtwo Only a couple/few brands made any effort to produce and market them. Dont think there was near enough market proliferation to get the public to really become accustomed to them. Of the people you know who dont plug them in, have you heard why they dont?
The background music is a bit too loud
most of the time they need to add music to mask the background music at location to avoid copyright claim..
Thanks for the feedback! As the other person said, background tracks in the footage needs cleaning up sometimes which is why we threw it in but I’ll make sure it’s mixed better in the future. - griffin
Loved the two background tracks stepping on eachother during the interview lmao thought I was having a stroke
Maybe have mics?
It's the way to market EVs to American drivers, especially rural drivers. It's a practical solution to ease people into EVs. Even though most suburban drivers that have multiple cars and a garage suitable for home charging, a BEV will fit their needs for commuting, they still have range anxiety, and an EREV will appeal to them too.
But as public EV charging infrastructure improves over time, EREVs will become less and less desirable for "range anxiety commuters", but will still have a niche that certain drivers need filled, so I expect that they'll still be around decades from now.
BYD shark is already here.
I think this is pretty smart timing since I think they're going to drop the tax incentives for full EVs
*Fisker Karma cries in the corner *
Mike Kojima cameo at 4:16
This Ramcharger is a good concept, but I almost feel like the battery is still too large on it. Even on this range extending platform, it's battery is nearly the same size as the pure EV Lightning's standard range battery. Maybe 60kwh is a more suitable size to reduce weight even further but still provide enough for the day to day while having good reserve for towing.
EREV is like a color wheel television. It gets the job done, but is not the most elegant solution.
Top gear trio had this idea with their Geoff EV w/diesel generator.
We have a RAV4 Prime & Tesla, the PHEV is the all around better vehicle for 99% of people. It’s just not as sexy or cool, but way more practical
Plug-in hybrids/EREVs seem like a good idea but finding the right balance between the two power sources is quite subjective and difficult. How much range do most people really need? How big of a generator is really needed? If you need to use the generator every day, I would argue that it is not a good fit. Not only are you trying to limit the weight and size of the battery but also of the engine. Too small of a battery and electric range will not be good enough. Also, from an efficiency standpoint, the mechanical energy from an ICE transformed into electrical energy then converted back into mechanical energy to drive the car is not as efficient as the ICE being able to directly power the wheels. Many plug-in hybrids can do this but the concept of EREVs foregoes this efficiency advantage over packaging and simplicity. EREVs are essentially series hybrids with a big battery. I would be curious to see if efficiency could be less of an issue in reality, as engine operating parameters can be precisely controlled. If the engine is essentially running at high load (high efficiency) at almost all operating times, would that counteract the efficiency loss enough to make them competitive with a plug-in hybrid engine that can power wheels mechanically? That is what I want to know. If the efficiency is close, I could see EREVs being a very viable direction. On the battery side, if a battery can be kept small enough that you can reliably charge it to 100% overnight using a standard outlet rather than requiring a large appliance outlet, that would make changing much more accessible and cheaper for consumers which is a great advantage. Battery use, assuming it is prioritized by the user, may offset any inefficiency from the occasional use of the generator.
The idea of battery size adjusted for standard outlet used overnight is really worth further investigation. According to my very basic calculations with european standard outlet able to deliver 2kWh/h and assuming 12h available for recharge sufficient energy for traveling 100km/62 miles in full electric mode can be stored overnight.
Music audio was too loud. Same tech as trains and it makes a ton of sense. No range anxiety, no dual driveline system.
Have a PHEV and I plug in nightly. Except when I forget. Runs like new even with 150k miles. I get 50-100mpg. I don't know what the future holds, but I don't think BEV is the answer for the majority of US drivers.
Chevy Volt still the GOAT. Whatcha got?
Will we see more of the Mazda rotary range extender? Future MHEV 2 seater sports cars have an exciting future with these compact range extenders
300 miles only?! I love it. I cant function on a 300 mi range in life let alone less. I have this gas engine that I just .... add more gas and now I just keep goin. E revs are a better step. Cant function in an ev. Too short
Charging rates are getting pretty quick these days. There will always be the niche situation like towing or certain work requirements that make it not as palatable but for the most part charging rates makes it not a big issue at all.
@ALMX5DP can I get 1200 miles a day oyt of it? Thats what I need. Less is useless. Can I go from ny state to Texas and back in 55 hrs? Thats what I need. Less than that is dumb and restrictive and if you say "You shouldnt need that,"my reply will be "go fuck yourself communist, just cause youre lazy doesnt mean I am"
@ALMX5DP not til lithiums out and capacitors are in. 5 mins and Im full of gas and ready to go another 500 miles. What a way to waste a life waitin for pixies to enter a battery. Capacitors are the only way to duplicate petrol engines
@@aaronk534 many EV owners save time on a daily basis by not even having to wait 5 minutes for a "fill up" since they charge at home when they are eating, sleeping and working around the house. They have to give some of that back if they go on lengthy roadtrips but all in all I think most EV drivers actually save time in a year versus owning an ICE.
@ALMX5DP 1200 miles a day. If I cant get 1200 in 1 day Im out. I do 3600 in 55hrs sometimes.
I already know that system 10 year ago, you people are behind.
who's "you people"? I'm the host, and I drive a 2014 i3 with Range Extender, so I assume you mean the U.S. market.
No it isn't
Nope
2 diesels (Ram3500 and Wrangler)- 4 gas (Jeep grand Cherokee, Miata, a/c cobra and Shelby gt500 convertible) - one electric (Tesla model 3 Performance) - each has its merits - still I think pure electric is the future of cars… I have no interest in a hybrid. I Use my Ram Truck to tow a 42 ft boat and travel on trips (Mega Cab is the Best!) Grand Cherokee can tow 6900lbs - (most boats to 25 ft)
The Wrangler gets 26 mpg in the city - Rubicon - purely for fun as are the other 3 cars… Build a Ram 3500 Electric
Too many generalizations without specific examples with math. Your assumption seems to think that battery costs and tech are static. That is false as the EV space is moving way faster in charging and drop in battery costs. Why is there a 100 percent tariff on Chinese EV's? Because it's comparable to ICE vehicles in MSRP?
For ICE vehicle to improve, a manufacturer spends 1+ billion dollars and get in return maybe 1 mpg better and 5-20 hp with marginal gains in ac c elevation if not offset by a weight gain with the new design. No mention of battery chemistries in this video as over half of the Chinese EV's uses lithium iron phosphate batteries which has no cobalt, nickel, or manganese. Uses mostly common materials. In Eldorado, Arkansas, they're using a Direct Lithium Extraction method, a closed loop pipe to get Lithium out of the aquifier. The field in EV moves fast and those that cling to older ideas are getting dated.
Exactly. I had to laugh at all the self-corrections and conditions being displayed. Ok, so for the people in large trucks doing long distances while towing and *think* they'll be going on a roadtrip once in the next 8 years and don't like the outside world so don't want to step out but do want to hear that V6 (why a V6???) sound... This is the product. For now.
And he's talking about the massive weight. Yeah, engine surely doesn't add weight. Oh and price. Yeah, trucks have been so cheap lately. No word about how an engine is still a bunch of tightly moving parts that does need maintenance which is an added cost... (No just swapping oil is unlikely to make it the lifetime of the vehicle)
This is all a big advertisement and a bad one at that.
@@Debruineo Also, yes, weight. 100kWh of battery weighs more than an engine hooked to a generator; that's just a fact. And it also costs more; that's just a fact.
@@Debruineo They're not corrections, they're NUANCE. I realize nuance is dead on the internet, but I'm an engineer who deals with facts, so nuance is a must. Read the full article at the link in the description - I cover everything you mention thoroughly.
The value of EREVs isn't really refutable. See full story in the description.
@@davidtracy3058 Your marketing story is correct for now for a niche group. And it’s in no way, shape or form good for the environment. That’s also nuance
I really disagree. GM went all in on this with the Volt, the i3 went this route and they were both compelling offerings but the public didn't see them that way at all. Americans do buy PHEVs when they can get a deal and a tax credit, but those tax credits are likely going away next year. Those same Americans then don't actually plug in their PHEVs. We have tons of PHEVs on the market and sales are very low.
BEV is the future for people who are concerned about efficiency or tailpipe emissions. Regular hybrids have helped the normal boring new car buyer get something a bit more efficient, that's a mild success. PHEVs were a good compromise when battery tech and charging availability wasn't very good.
And for cheapskates, e-bikes are really crushing it, with the best environmental impact, not getting stuck in traffic, easy to park, cheap to charge, etc.
The i3 and Volt aren't representative, really. They were in a class of car that Americans don't buy anyway (small cars). Ram says it expects a plug-in rate of 75% miles traveled.
The issue with current PHEVs is that they don't offer enough range. (The ICCT covers much of this, and the advantages of a high-range PHEV over a low-range one). Ram thinks performance advantages (combined with not having to fill up at the gas station) will persuade buyers over pure ICEs. But as you note, it's gonna come down to pricing, which should be interesting. Automakers will have to meet strict CARB requirements anyway, so EREVs are coming no matter what, and hopefully will lead to less of a loss-per-unit for automakers than BEVs.
More here (thank you for your comment!):
www.theautopian.com/the-future-of-the-auto-industry-is-electric-with-a-gasoline-backup/
The public is pretty ignorant though when it comes to actually knowing what a good solution is. Just takes education and market presence to help people with this type of paradigm shift.
@@theautopian1551 I'll just say, the three people I know that own mild PHEVs, none of them plug theirs in at all. That may make sense with tax incentives but why should automakers add all the plug-in hardware when owners don't actually take advantage? And if you are going to take advantage and you're willing to get a home charging setup working, why not just go full BEV? Much simpler drivetrain.
@@ALMX5DP we've had PHEVs in the US for more than ten years. It's really not clear that the public cares unless there are really good tax incentives.
@@davidsixtwo Only a couple/few brands made any effort to produce and market them. Dont think there was near enough market proliferation to get the public to really become accustomed to them.
Of the people you know who dont plug them in, have you heard why they dont?