I made MULTIPLE 6-Figures when I made THIS decision! | Why I QUIT Playing in church Pt 1! |
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- Опубликовано: 9 ноя 2024
- I was a church musician for over 25 years of my life! I quit for a very specific reason...and I tell the HARSH truth in this video!
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BEFORE you leave a LONG comment PLEASE READ 👇🏾👇🏾
1. PLEASE WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO
2. I HAVE NOT left God! I am a Christian a believer attend church every Sunday…I have a wife and 6 beautiful children all by her…I don’t drink I don’t smoke(never have ) alll our children were in the confines of our marriage and we dated for 3 years and never had sex before marriage I’ve never cheated and cause I LOVE GOD and my family too much to do so!
3. I served as a church musician for over 30 years of my life (I’m only 40) most of those years were unpaid only maybe 10 were paid…and not that much(as stated in the video)
4. What IM NOT saying is that church musicians should leave their posts or stop serving because of money. If that’s what your call and contentment is IM NOT TALKING TO YOU
5. What I AM SAYING is that musicians SHOULD NOT depend on the church to make a full time living. I don’t think it’s a viable source and I didn’t depend on it holistically as MY ONLY SOURCE(as stated in the video)
6. What I AM SAYING is that you SHOULD have multiple streams of income, life insurance and health insurance so we don’t have to do a go fund me to bury you
7. IF YOU HAVE ALL those things in place IM NOT Talking to you
8. If you are happy serving God with your gift without pay there is NOTHING wrong with that at all and you SHOULD continue to do that. But YOU NEED OTHER INCOME SOURCES and YOU NEED insurance
9. If YOU DONT have any health or life insurance or don’t have an inheritance to leave to your family when you die then THIS VIDEO is for you.
10. PLEASE WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO BEFORE YOU LEAVE A COMMENT!
@@Johnmike you are right! My son gets paid as stated above. My husband and myself both worked professionally and hence sustain the church. Son also works. BTW i also play never got paid not even now get any money from the church. BUT…..GOD has Abundantly blessed us though various modes of income!!! Praise Jesus Wise advise. Blessings.
I play in church and I don't make anywhere near $500 a week, however, I have a regular full-time job and I'm retired military. Unless you're an MD for a mega church, I don't see how anyone could make a living "only" as a church musician. Having a regular job takes a lot of pressure off of being a church musician and it frees you up to bless the Lord and others with the talent He's given you.
@@jp45424 you are telling the whole truth!
Everybody wants the musician to get a job until there is a funeral at 10 am on a Tuesday and nobody is available to play the organ.
Welcome to my world too. I am mostly like a full time musician and I live in Pensacola FL 😢❤
Same as I was thinking, I see church MD is part time making $500 is pretty good.
Church music budgets in USA are insane and unfathomable. UK churches have zero budget, cause building repairs blow all the budgets.😂
I started playing as a Church Saxophonist around 2003 until Covid hit. My pay was $40 a Sunday. We would have Tuesday Rehearsals, Thursday night service, the Choir had 2 albums so we would play at different churches sometimes Fridays and Saturdays and we had night service on Sundays for $40 😂.
However the benefit and blessings I received from that was greater than the $40 . I became better at my craft, I was apart of a ministry that was bringing souls to Jesus through and healing and Deliverance. My 9-5 Job started to give me and increase, I started to get more side gigs for higher pay.
So in conclusion if you are getting paid or not, God will give you an increase for your dedication. Time is money, so the time we invest into a church is our offering! Sometimes God will bless through other means such as favor on our life, money coming from different streams I believe these are all Blessings from God, and I am so happy that he blessed me with this gift and I will continue to Glorify him and use it be blessed Brothers
@@KirklandWilliamsWorkout3000 ❤️❤️❤️ this comment.
@@KirklandWilliamsWorkout3000 Well said. Many times God blessed financial me through raises on my 9 - 5. Also, playing at church or playing at visiting churches on the weekends gave me many stories to share with co-workers and share Christ and His goodness with them!
It can be tiring and exhausting at times but God renews is with the strength we need!
@@KirklandWilliamsWorkout3000 do you feel playing in Church is kind of over hyped. In what way will you quantify your skill and excitement and passion and time in terms of achievement
@@emmanuelloveworldPlaying in church is not overhyped. If I had to quantify it playing at church helped propel my music career after I quit playing sax after high school. I started off giving me $40 when they didn’t have to. I was encouraged to can sharpening my gift . In 2024 I can make anywhere from $500-$1500 a week from playing gigs. So for me playing at a church during on the events was a benefit. God has Blessed me so much that I can honestly say that the Hype is real especially if you tap into the spiritual side of it and not just the coins that they give at the end of the service. To me the pay is just extra credit. If you can get your soul right with God Your gift will make room for you I think 🤔 that’s in the book of Proverbs ❤ in conclusion church or the body of Christ has multiplied my talents and Spiritual Connection With God who releases all of our spiritual blessings. I don’t hold any titles at the church so this is from someone who is a normal member or hired musician that can see the spiritual benefits that the church brings , I hope I answered your question correctly 😅
Lol ok, have you ever had a 24/7 vigil, get yelled at, deal with side comments, bad members poor attitudes, get scrunished for trying to find a sound on the keyboard when its not effective, be there at church 4 days of the week, go to full time school, plus events they put yeah all voluntarily.
Been playing drums in church since 1983, for 40 years. Never got paid for it, but I never considered it a "job" necessarily. I just treat it as serving God and in return, He gives me His blessings on my life with other things: Family, Job, Relationships etc.
I play at a church. I don’t get paid. I consider it an offering to God. Playing is my worship. I work full time and do well financially in my job. BUT I DO BELIEVE that church musicians should be paid. The truth is most churches don’t have the money to do so or they don’t value musicians until they’re gone.
Levites. That's what we are!
@Noteworthy2024 This is the way it should be. God's house is not to be used as a way to get paid. If you've been blessed with a talent, use it for His glory. The scripture says in all you do, do as untonthe Lord. As much as God has done for us, the least we can do is give back to Him in worship without our hands out looking for something in return.
There are ushers in the church working constantly. There are Sunday school teachers teaching faithfully. Should they get paid? The church can't take care of everybody. Funds should be used for the "church" and used for God's kingdom work.
Everybody needs a regular job to take care of themselves. Give back to God what He has given to you. The cross was enough!
I hope no one is offended or upset. 🙂
My son plays for our church. We don’t take salary. Sure make sure he gets paid tho. Important to have music in the church
@@Noteworthy2024 very true!
Agreed! Especially when they KNOW there’s a musical need!
I'm 43.... Great video by the way. My suggestions to those that are Church musicians... Keep your day job
I was a church musician since age 17. In one year alone of being around the top musicians in the DMV, I seen the dead end of that path, especially when men were older with responsibilities of a family. Mostly all of them were struggling, with no retirement plan in place. I quit and became a Master Electrician. Best decision I ever made in life, as a young man with no guidance, just a gift of insight from God.
I know this young man, and he and I played and grew up in the same church! My mother was the pastor. I went in another direction also. Now I am a special police officer! After being in church the majority of my life, I felt my spirit going in a different direction. Yo! Bro! If you see this hit me up!
I’m thinking of quitting. I’ve played for many years. One ministry has demanding expectations for meager pay. I plan to go back to college to finish my degrees. I play for 2 churches for an amount that is a joke.
Worked as an electrician for 48 years & played at church for 44.. retired from church last year and now retiring from Ford with full benefits & nice 401k. I played 2 Sunday month because I still had a family to maintain. Church gave me pleasure ( also was compensated) and God kept me whole and energized.
@@deronlark go back to college , think about the future, however play for God and he’ll bless you in your career
@@jgyrwa you did good
Been playing since the age of 9 and am 62 now. Love doing what I do and live well. I saw a lot that was discouraging, but learned to do what I've been gifted to do and not become engaged in the politics of the church. You use the money that you get paid to purchase your health, life and medical insurance. If you don't get paid enough to afford it, then go to corporate America and get a job. The key is not to live above your means. As a single Mom, my gift for years afforded me to raise two Sons and now take care of myself. The biggest benefit, is being my own boss. And yes, I have life and health insurance and 13 grands that I look out for. To each his own. As for me, my gift makes room for me and has brought me before great men.
We gotta stop looking at "Church" as a place to make money. If a church is willing to pay you for what you do, cool.....But don't go out looking for that.
This is why we have so many "carnal" musicians because so many just look at church as a "gig" and not as service unto the Lord.
I've never charged anyone for my gift because it was freely given
Look up what the Levites did. It may change your perspective on the profession. Granted, it should be a pre-requisite that if that's how you're going to make your living, you have the mindset of a true Levite.
Lol another weirdo 😅
But the pastor gets paid... Jesus didn't... so why shouldn't the musicians who study and prepare just as the pastor does. I don't understand why people believe musicians should not be paid. Until you walk in their shoes, the time that's invested away from their family, especially if there is 2 services per Sunday, bible study, choir rehearsal, praise team rehearsal) hunny.... that's a minimum of 10 hours per week working and managing and teaching other people, not including your study and prep time at home. Most aren't paid enough.
@@MusicalNotes1986 I see what you mean but how come most preachers charge for their preaching sessions?
@landarow5152 I've been actively playing music since I was 11.....My calling is to Music and from that day till now I have NEVER charged anyone to use my gift. Ministering thru music is not a "Profession"
I make 6 figures scoring movies, but I find no more joy than serving Jesus regardless of money, because at the end of the day there are hurting people that gift God gave you he uses to bring healing. The closer I get to Jesus, the more I don't care about the money, because at the end of the day youre going to live here 65-100 years maybe and the rewards you reap from serving God will last for eternity. That said it isn't for everyone, and I think the most important thing is are you walking daily, closely, and offering your life as a living sacrifice to Jesus. Of course we need to feed our families, but for me I can earn plenty outside of church. Blessings to you and I hope we all find and stay in our first love for our our creator.
Absolutely I totally wholeheartedly agree…I’ve made 7-figures running my companies…I think the thing that everyone should experience is having a lot of money..because it will show them that it’s an empty hollow God…and once you understand that…then you know exactly what it is…a tool…yes we are here 65-100 years…but our families live beyond that…I had to also ask myself years ago…”I’m good…my salvation is secure…I believe in him…but what am I doing to make sure that the next generation of ME is taken care of…” scriptures say 2 major things in regards to this…1…if a man doesn’t take care of his family he is worse than an infidel” and 2….a wise man leaves an inheritance for his children’s children…” so yes money doesn’t really make us any more righteous…but it will insure that your kids can go to college without 200k of student loans…or they can buy their first home after getting married…or that if your daughter has her first child and decides she wants to be a stay at home Mom she can do that….my dissertation has nothing to do with musicians making money primary to God…but everything to do with using the tools and common sense God gave them to do better for themselves and their families
@@whittymusic I’m a musician and composer and would definitely love to pick your brain to shadow in regards to scoring !
I’ve played in church for 20+ years. I get a stipend every once in a great while, but it’s rare, small and I don’t expect it. If you’re trying to make your primary living at music, especially in church, you have an uphill climb. Everybody’s different so you have to chart your own course - for me, this is for the glory of God.
Pastors say the same thing but still make a fortune doing what they do.
Sir, this blessed me! I am a retired school teacher! I could not have retired if all I had were my church organist job! YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!! Thanks for sharing this!
Back in the day, it was an upside to being a church musician because blessings came with the gift that was given from God.. Today, it's nothing like it was because the church is NOTHING like it use to be... Remember how choir days & revivals were in the 90s- early 2000s?? There's not a church today rocking like that being authentic... Really think about it.... Today's church don't even have mothers of the church anymore nor elders..
Thankfully the church I lead worship in still has some elders but there’s a LOT more hypocrisy, especially when people feel the need to tell you how to sing the songs God ordained for you to sing. I definitely miss those revival days when singers were SANGING
@@LyndaStarr if you miss that, go to a church of Christ church. Still to this day they can sing with no music
So well said. Honest.
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@@Johnmike I’m on the second church that I have been compensated at. I would never try to be a full time musician. I started in real estate and work a FT job. I am learning to produce music now, but music is not my main bag.
Great Perspective, but this is the same problem sidemen face playing with mid to low level Artists, there are no benefits as you mentioned, it's basically a
PTYD Plan, which means Play til you die, and church musicians face this too I see, this video addresses that in totality, and might be an epiphany for someone ❤
@@Moneyemusic_unlimited that’s a powerful anagram! #PTYD
Hmmmm I'm a sound guy feeling some of this pain...
I stopped doing Live Sound for church. I set up gear time to time (x32😂😂😂😂😂) and sometimes I may fill in for a sound guy. I saw a lot of things that I didn't want to see. Politics was involved. People ask you to do things then wanting others to interrupt it I mean the list goes on. I am a man of God just been saved for 26 years. I feel like some things have became entertaining more than ministry. Some people don't want to grow in and with ministry as well. Thanks for sharing this. Many people may have their views about being a musician or a sound tech but man it's crazy.
@@iengineer_247 guitarist/singer/sometimes leader here - “sound guy” to me is like saying “bass /guitar/keyboard guy/girl” - definitely an integral part of the band. Doesn’t matter how well I sing or play - it all goes through the ears/fingers of the sound guy. Thank you for what y’all do!
The church politics is CRAZY Work. Recently I had someone in the church project onto me what the pastor would possibly say about a certain lyric in the song I sang and creating a whole narrative that probably wouldn’t have even happened smh
Same. Pandemic hit. Church went virtual. I decided not to go back. After almost 30 years. Since then: music for Disney theme parks. Music for films. Joined the Recording Academy. Sync placements. Trailer music. Figured out quickly how much I enjoy creating music instead of playing other people’s music. So many more layers to it. As a Christian, the message has come through my music to broader audiences than the few hundred who were in church. Let’s chat.
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Ultimately, the goal is to be able to make your money to support yourself and family through you're God given creative efforts. I offer my service to the church as an offering. I think one of the biggest traps is when cats depend solely on church as a "job". I'd rather freely be able to worship and offer service voluntarily on Sunday at a church fellowship when me and my family are getting spiritually feed. God blesses our obedience and it does require trusting Him. I have multiple streams which allows me the flexibility to do what I want. I think that's what cats out to shoot for.
This video was SO timely and I’m glad it popped up on my feed. I was hired to perform last year for an anniversary service at a church and after the amazing feedback of the performance they reached out to me to be part of their praise team and join the church community. I prayed on it, received confirmation and led the praise & worship team doing it all for the glory of God. But y’all, after about 6 months I was BURNED OUT. The pastors (nor the other members of the team) weren’t pleased at all or supportive about me taking a break but I had to obey the instruction of rest. 7 months later they were in dire need of my singing since one of the singers took a 3 month sabbatical so I had to start that following Sunday getting back into the rhythm. I’m now in my second week back of leading worship singing mainly solo. While I’m grateful that I’m now getting paid to lead and share my gifts to honor God, it’s still not enough to be sustainable ($400 a month) ESPECIALLY in NYC. This video (and the comments) helped put so many things into perspective and made me realize I’m not alone.
I’m not even half way through the video yet but you’ve brought up too many good points and things for us (ME) to think about. Thank you for opening up this discussion for us bro!
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The money standpoint is super relevant. I clicked from the mental aspect. Being there every rehearsal 3, 4 hours, coming to church every Sunday super early to brain dump all the music you just learned for one week then do it all over again. I just feel mentally drained and tired but I love every second
@@drenalintherapy exactly how I feel
@drenalintherapy let's not forget bible study on Wednesday
@@landarow5152 crazy you mentioned that cause my church just started requesting us to come to bible studies now. They’re paying us but again not the point. It’s mentally draining and I’m at year 10
Heavy on the Sunday super early part!
My fiance has played for 20 years at our church. We have full service on Wednesday and 2 on sundae. We are there at 630am and leave at 1:45 then we goes to work at his job until 8pm on Sundays. So tired i see it in the flesh... i understand your plight. I'm in the praise team and Choir so I'm there too.. x5@drenalintherapy
I've been playing for 20 years, I'm 38, and I'm ready to give it up. I live in a city where there is a church musician shortage. Some of us have 3 or 4 churches if the circumstances work.
Where's that?
@@sannigodwin9928 Monroe, LA
@@meekstrosityproductions6880 Where You Live At?
i've been working in churches as a pianist or organist since high school, i'm in my early 20s now. it's supported me well through college where expenses are pretty minimal (i lived on my own for two years as well), but i feel your point. i've many other talents and ideas i want to share with the world, so this job has been more of a "stepping stone" onto other things that hopefully serve God's greater purpose for me. i couldn't imagine doing this for another 5, 10, or 20 years. it is fantastic to serve, but it doesn't financially support our basic needs
@@eagle56786 boom! You get it!! It’s THE EXACT question I asked myself 12 years ago when I was 30…can I see myself doing this at 45? 50!? It woke me up…and I spent the next 10 years building and investing in myself…
@@Johnmike self-investment is the plan. 💯
When you're a musician and playing for a church, it's not to be referred to as a "gig" because not only you're playing for the church, you are also playing music unto God. Don't forget He's the one who had given you that gift.
Brother you are 100% correct because church musicians are only thinking small. The Pandemic changed a lot of things for the church musicians.
I've always played in small churches that didn't have the budget to pay. I can only imagine what the pandemic did to musicians depending on the church for income. I've always had a 9-5 like others stated. I recieved raises and cash bonuses. The Lord has blessed me. II totally agree with Mike. This is not just for musicians, but for anyone working a 9-5, you must have more than one source of income. It's a lot of work to be a musician, playing for services, rehearsing, practicing, etc. Then doing something on the side with a family. But, the Lord will give you strength and direction to do what you must do. I am a witness. Thanks for this well said video.
Received your message. I have followed you for many years and we've corresponded via email years ago. You don't remember me but you were very instrumental in helping me learn about virtual instruments, midi-keyboards and Abelton Live. I haven't purchased the keyboard or virtual instruments, but use Abelton weekly because I do not have a drummer. I purchased some of your stems from Loop Community. As well as some of your other loops. Keep up the good work.
Great points Mike!! I currently play at a church now. I’ve been playing for 48 years. I read and play by ear. Have a degree in music. All blessings from God!! Thanks for bringing up the multiple streams of income. That’s very important. You said a lot of great things.
Being a church musician is not easy.
Moving on, most musicians start playing in their churches at a young age and are just happy to play. As they get older sometimes the church may give them some money occasionally. Then, as they get older the subject of weekly pay may come up. Sometimes we get happy with what they give us or we feel that we won’t get paid and go leave to play for a different church where they pay us good. However, the dollars we make as teenagers may be okay until we have more financial responsibilities. I think that it’s important for musicians to learn about financial things. Things like, having bank accounts, how to save money, how to budget your money, how to invest money, and how to tithe, to name a few. Also, take classes about Time management, the importance of having medical insurance and eating healthy!
I was blessed to work for the government for 30 years. It helped pay my bills and helped with medical insurance for the delivery of my 4 kids.
I still played for churches and taught lessons all this time.
I could have done much better with my time management during certain years. I didn’t have to play every gig that came my way nor did I have to spend too much time practicing while my kids and wife were awake. Balancing time is hard but doable. If you get married, your spouse deserves time from you, one on one regularly. If you have children, they need your time when you’re awake. Being home with the kids when they’re sleeping is not the same as being with the kids when they’re awake. I don’t care what you feel you’re supposed to do in life or what your “assignment” is, if you have a spouse or kids - you’re responsible for them first. Some churches only care about the music you give them, many never care about your real life and responsibilities! You really brought out points I could talk about all day. Keep doing what you do and helping musicians!
God bless!
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@@solomonphiferjr6620...agree. Biblically, family is the first ministry.
Reading all the comments. If your a church musician the best thing to do is teach younger generation how to play so you could pass the task to them. Then just guide them afterwards
@solomonphiferjr6620 AMEN bro! Couldn't have said it better!
I've been playing drums for a couple of churches since 1988. What I've found is that spending time with God regularly and being able to listen...you'll know when you should improve on your skill or skills and help grow the music department. God will let you know if those skills will be useful as a growing entrepreneur building your own business (or businesses). God will let you know if it time to take your talent somewhere else. Some of you all have talents and skills that should in a totally different arena. Sometimes the woes of life (possibly of our own doing) casuses us to get it twisted and get off course. Though it takes much to organize and operate a church, our upmost calling is make disciples.
I know I've experienced at least a little of what everyone has experienced in this conversation. I really appreciate everyone's openess. I our day to day living let's not forget what we are really here for. Blessings!
Thanks Mike!
The church is a place of sacrifice and worship unto God. So many now days think about what can I get out of this church rather than how can I live sacrificially unto God. Musicians should get paid for their craft, but in the church that shouldn't be the main concern. There needs to be a teaching on how to develop multiple streams of income outside of the church while still being able to purely minister to Gods people to draw them closer to Him. I've seen it done right so I know it's possible for the one who is willing. Worship has always been about God, not us.🙇🏾♂️
That’s what this teaching is…it’s an encouragement for musicians to STOP depending on the church to supply their needs…if you watch all the way through…I tell the exact way that I was able to develop other streams outside of the church musician craft…in addition to the church being a place of sacrifice and worship…it’s also an organization…so we cannot be so spiritual that we ignore that fact…and holistically it has largely become a profit making vehicle for many…especially and sadly here in the west…I believe we will get to the place where church returns to the premise of your original sentiment…which is the main reason I got out of that space because I didn’t want to be part of someone else’s million dollar corporation while not having anything to show for what I put into it…my whole goal with sharing is that someone will hear this and stop being a cog in someone else’s wheel…and I have more coming on how musicians can better themselves financially
Preachers rarely think this way. If you ask a famous evangelist to come to your church, they are going to present you with a bill stating the bottom line it will take for them to leave their living room.
@@dr.andmrs.phibes7454 wrong doesn't justify wrong 🙇🏾♂️
Anyone who depends on a church check is honestly no smart. It's a side hustle and that's it. I don't even understand that controversy. I know churches paying yearly salaries much more than 9-5's with benefits. Otherwise I don't understand how anyone can think they could live off a church check. That's just lazy.
@@jweeventgroup8226 I would go that far as to say that…some people get indoctrinated into it…I was told as I was growing up in my home church that they would “take care of me” as long as I dedicated my life to the church…the demands they placed on my time became more and more as I grew older and started my family…and the carrot kept being dangled in front of me on that until I woke up one day and realized how much they were taking advantage of me…I started playing there when I was 9…I was basically indoctrinated from a child into that thinking…outside looking in people were telling me I was making a mistake…but when they get you locked in at a young age and get hooks in you and tell you the same thing for most of your life..it’s hard to break that line of thinking…fortunately I finally did…
I serve as church drummer for 4 years. The Lord wanted me to serve and there is no money and it's about making Him happy and facilitating a crucial need. I want to pass the sticks onto someone else to give the opportunity for serving in God's glory. I'm glad money had Nothing to do with it.
I've gotten income as a Church Musician for around 15 years, including playing the Piano, Organ, teaching, writing arrangements, leading groups and choirs, some years as music director. It was a big church, and the pastors got all the stuff - insurance, retirement plans, etc. The few paid musicians and sound operators worked as contractors - even when I was the music director, those were the terms for me. I quit when I was around 35-36 years old, but used to have other sources of income from Academia. I moved to Europe. Now, I work full-time as a writer for an established company, with all the perks, from stable income and health insurance to stock options. There are almost no paid positions where I live (in Latvia) as a church musician, but the abuse is similar to when I was paid for that. However, even if there were offers to that I probably wouldn't return to the life of a paid church musician. I miss some of the old flexibility and free time, but no weekends, almost impossible to get paid vacations, and a totally different routine from other people - not to mention no future perspectives - are total downturns. The truth is, professional musicians out there suffer the same situation - overloads of gigs or no pay, unless they're hired at orchestras, schools, colleges, the army, and so on. Also, the obscene thing is - only now that I don't work as a musician any longer and I'm old enough, I can afford some instruments I'd like to purchase - and after so many years as musician, I don't have considerable savings as normal people. Well, it is what it is, I'm glad you realised that still on time to move on and got this channel working. God bless you in your endeavours.
Mee to! I stopped playing at 2019 before the COVD-19. Same here bro, I saw zero upside and grieved as well. I dedicated 20 years. I don't want to be another out of shape, just sitting on a B3, and only getting $200 - $250 a week salaries from these churches. This is real time talk. Thanks for speaking the truth! There isn't more than life than just being a church musician. I'm glad that I've open my eyes and not allowing these delusional pastors use the word to beat down or use tactics to keep folks oppressed and fall in the same psychological and economical trap. This brother has wisdom!
Thanks for revisiting this topic-I saw your original video with CDub on this topic.
You’re right about there being no upside. I walked away from playing keys/organ in church in 2018. This was after playing for some years.
Blessings bro and much more success 2 you 👊!
Whew.....do we have a lot to say about this...John Mike thanks for always being transparent about this issue. That's why you'll always be a respected mentor in our community. Now of course this is EXACTLY why I wrote the book "God and Gigs: Succeed as as a Musician WITHOUT Sacrificing your Faith"...because we should not be sacrificing our livelihood or future for a misguided view of music ministry. I'm going to do a video on this so people can see another perspective but your valuable advice should NOT be ignored. - Allen C. Paul
Please do! It would help SO many singers and musicians!
Spot on brother!!! We live in a consumer society. The cheat code is creating and producing products & services. As musicians, creators, engineers or whatever God has blessed you to do -> ABC - Always Be Creating. Solve problems and monetize! Much ❤
We need more church musicians there’s such a shortage ❤
But the church must treat our musicians right!
What he’s saying is true but I hope we get more musicians who play because they want to not depending on a church check.
I wish God would tell more church musicians to quit and walk away. Because when playing for the glory of God becomes a gig and all about the money then it’s just a skill not worship. I played for my old church for over 20 yrs and never ask for pay but God blessed me above and beyond. All my needs were covered. Too much production happening in church instead of worship and praise it becomes emotional rather than true worship. Now I know the Bible says money sweetens the labor so there’s nothing wrong with giving the musicians an offering but it shouldn’t become a career. God deserves and should be rightfully given our gifts and talents freely for the gift He has given us.
I definitely see from both sides of the spectrum. During my season of leading worship without pay God blessed me abundantly in ways I couldn’t even think of or imagine (Ephesians 3:20). However, as singing is my absolute vocation and not just a hobby it’s still important to recognize your worth and value of your gifts while serving, trusting God will supply your needs, and having the goal of ministering to God’s people.
@@LyndaStarr I agree totally the word of God says your gift shall make room for you. We just have to be careful because a lot of people started their singing or music in church and then take it into secular settings and now they’re either stuck out their or has lost their way and can’t seem to come back to God. They got a taste of that good feeling Sin. Sadly some have lost their souls because they died before making it back to Christ. Diddy started in the church and now look at him. So did Whitney Houston.
You know something when you make it about your service to God versus your pay it just hits different but thats a relationship with God thing. My Pastor said to me your very different than the musicians we've had before your a Priest not a hirling. You have a passion word Gods word your in bible study your in prayer. And not just cuz its sunday or rehearsal. And God will honor that. Ive never seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.
@@WrighteousBrand do the pastor get paid.
@@NormanWaller-x7o some do but I know a lot of pastors who don’t. They got their own career away from church. As I go back into the Bible I don’t see where any of the apostles were being paid to preach the free word of God. But in today’s time that’s what it’s all about the money. For all God has done for us and is doing and for what He has in store for us we should be grateful for the opportunity to work in His vineyard.
Great video! As both a pastor and musician, I appreciate the conversation and the professionalism with it. The general church musician is a part-time position, not a primary employment opportunity. For those who dedicate themselves to full-time ministry, the church MUST provide secular security for spiritual service. The ALL Levites (not just the preachers or pastors) who gave their lives in service to the congregation became the care responsibility of the congregation. It’s only right.
Secular Security for spiritual service is dope! I’m gonna use that!
God bless you my brother! Take care of your family, and yes, provide for them beyond the grave!
Speak to 'em John. Financial education is key. We have to think beyond the church check. It can be a great supplement, but I've never relied on that by itself.
Amen! "think beyond the church check" >>>>>
This is why as a musician I never depended on the church to take care of me and my family financially. I always had a job with benefits. The church is not going to take care of you like that and I never expected it. I tell all young musicians to get a job outside of just playing for church. I do believe in being compensated as a musician. I played for churches for 45 years getting sometimes and not getting paid at other times. I’m retired now and don’t play for anyone and have no ambition for playing for another church. It’s a lot of work and takes time from my family which I’m not willing to do anymore.
Thanks so much for doing this. I hope church musician see this. I have been a church musician for over 39 years as a side gig. I have a job that provide additional income and benefits for me and my family.
I understand there Brother John. And you were rather cold on the keys! People start and stop for various reasons. There’s good, bad, happy and sad in the church….. however people have to do what’s best for them and why they’re there. No judgements whatsoever here. As for ME….. once it’s in you it’s in you! I couldn’t stop if I wanted to. Yes, I have a full time career, I’ve been in LE for 31 years and still going. I’ve been playing for churches since 1986, that’s better than 40 years. So, not only is it supplemental cash, I do it bc I Loooooooooooooove it AND I neeeeeeeed it; it keeps me connected with God, humble and grounded. No matter what, I will NEVER EVER stop, even if I won the powerball!
You tell the truth mike... not easy to do... but thank you brotha...
I remember years ago when Tony Russell had this conversation, ( people please understand, These are gifted musician ) I understand BRO. It is a hard converstaion no matter how you tell it. These musician that have been playing in church since the age of 4 and 8 years old are professional at the age of 16 or 17 years (they're top grade) I play bass and never came close to these guys or girls, as Tony said years ago, no matter where he plays (the church is and will aways be in him) GOD is good you all reach people the church are not reaching (it's all about the heart) keep doing your blessing .
We also have to look at how much the MD is paid in comparison to the amount of hours they work. If the MD is making $500/wk, working an average of 3 hours per Sunday, possible 2 hours for mid-week service and 2 hours for choir rehearsal each week....plus 5 hours for prep the MD is making $41.66 per hour. Which is well above the average pay for a lot of people.
Each one of us should have multiple streams of income and not rely on the church for your sole income.
not well above the average pay for musicians.
@@steviechords $41.66/hr. is great pay. Especially considering they are only working a quarter of what is traditionally considered as Full-Time hours (40). IMO, this is great residual income.
It’s a service! You get playing experience and the honor of blessing others with your god given talents.
I commend you because you spoke the truth and I’m glad you got out of the foolishness. I believe that if you go back in you would be many of the musicians that are there to change it for the glory of God. From one musician to another, kudos!
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As a church musician living in France, I've never been paid for playing in church. Would love to get even $50 to cover transport. ❤
As you should lol…
Bro!!! The QUESTIONS IN THIS BIDEO HIT HARDER THAN THE STATEMENTS!!!! ASKING QUESTIONS IS THE WAY TO BREAK OUT THE “matrix” in any scenario.
Great topic bro! Thanks for sharing!
appreciate the words of wisdom, working on getting my RUclips channel off the ground right now
Thanks for starting this conversation through this forum. An essential topic to create healthy dialog. I pray that through reading these responses, the reader can move forward and grow in "the ministry" or even out of "the ministry" but still within God's Kingdom. By the way, I must say, I still enjoy playing many of your arrangements. Blessings!
People are so quick to judge. Your path is your path bro
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Thank you for this video my brother. I'm glad you woke up. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, musicians and singers' median salary is $39.14 and hour. In 2023, there were a reported 169,300 jobs that were classified as musicians and singers (these are people who actually make this their career and pay taxes). Musicians and singers often perform in settings such as concert halls, churches, and clubs. Part-time work is common, and work schedules may vary and include mornings, nights, or weekends. Employment of musicians and singers is projected to grow 2 percent from 2023 to 2033, slower than the average for all occupations. So the verdict is?? GET A CAREER! Playing for a church is a privilege to help build the kingdom. It is a form of worship. If you get paid to play, that is a bonus. Stop trying to live off the church by being a church musician. I'm a retired lawyer with a pension, have lifetime medical benefits, a 401k, life insurance and a few other things. I enjoy playing for my church because I see how it affects people and brings them closer to Christ!
Good for you ! To all the replies who say he should do it for the lord : I come to the pastor and say “ I need help with my mortgage “ he says “ well brother let’s pray 🙏🏾 on it . “ OK fast forward , pastor tells congregation “ the church needs a new roof , let’s dig deep and fund this project . “ My reply “ Pastor , I think YOU should pray 🙏🏾 on it ! “. AND YA DON’T PAY TAXES ON MY MONEY THAT WAS TAXED . . . One way street all the way around .
Straight from the heart, Brother. Thank you for the wakeup call.
Good stuff bro I’m a church musician not full time but I do play a lot. But I have trades under my belt class A CDL truck driver and commercial HVAC technician so I have something to fall back on and have multiple streams of income!!
For anyone watching this video, being a KINGDOM MINSTREL is an HONOR. To release the frequency of God for the healing of nations is an HONOR. A PRIVILEGE. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO STOP SUBMITTING TO AND SERVING IN THE HOUSE OF GOD TO ACCOMPLISH WEALTH.
To say leaving your kingdom POST to accomplish wealth is the epitome of idolatry.
I agree with your point. However, this is why the church is not what most people think it is and why it shouldn’t be labeled as Gods House. It’s a business that depends on the people to grow it.
Johnmike you inspire me so much. I was about to through in the towel and give up, But this fixed my MINDSET! Thanks for this video bro!!!!
wow! glad that I can inspire you! and so glad this helped you!
" Spoken Truth , Knowledge & Wisdom Beyond Measure "...!!!
Most churches in my area can not afford to pay any musician more than $500 a Sunday. Most of us are local musicians are working while playing for a church. So I understand.
I was on the path to be a full-time drummer. I saw guys that were the best in the area and older than me struggling and still living with there parents. I quit playing at about 25 and have never looked back. Still love the music
This is so true... you can't depend on a church as a main income source. Its not a knock to playing in churches but its being logical.
The upside of being a church musician is never financial. It is always spiritual. Most churches cannot or do not pay their musicians, unless they are on staff in some vocational role.
The worship team is simply another available outlet to serve God and His church with the talent He provided. Every believer needs to identify their natural and spiritual gifts and discern how they should invest those gifts in the Mission of God in their local church.
Church musician is not a career path. It is an available service role to individually worship God and corporately serve the body of believers.
Good word and Advice 🎯💯👍🎹
Tell the truth!!!! Many of us need to stop depending on one income.
Your calculations are a little biased. If you're getting $500/Sunday you have to equate that to 1 day of work. If you spent 8 hours at that church on that Sunday then your hourly rate is $62.50. IF that was full time at 40 hours a week ($2,500/wk) times 52 weeks = $130,000/yr. That's a PHENOMENAL SALARY even after you take out taxes pay for your own insurance etc.
I know guys who play church Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday and get between $300-$500/per day that equates to $46,800-$78,000 and that's technically only working 3 days a week, and reality is you're not spending 8 hours a day there, it's closer to 4 hours, but even if you want to count your practice or preparation at home that's still a great rate compared to other jobs.
I agree with everything you're saying, I stepped out of full-time church ministry jobs and branched out to other things, but you can't compare a 1 Day a week (Sunday) "job or gig" to a full time 5 day/ 40 hr work week and then use that as your argument to say a church gig is not enough to support your family. Obviously it's not, because you're only working 1 day (Sunday) a week, multiply that by 3 or 5 and YOU are more than good.
I know people who throw their whole lives into a full time ministry gig...did it for 30-40 years and have nothing to show for it...I almost fell into that boat...my point wasn't to be biased with my calculations...but to get people to think beyond a $500 a week gig as the end all be all to building wealth or taking care of a family...most of us can't think past that...and a lot get comfortable there...as I stated in the video I had friends that bragged about making that much per week...and when I made it to that "status" I bragged as well...however in the midst of that "bragging" I filed for bankruptcy...foreclosed on a house and applied for food stamps to take care of my family...and that was on top of playing for a secondary church and running a teaching business teaching 30-40 students per week...the point is $500 is a phenomenal "day rate"...but as you grow older and your life and needs change...not so much...and these things change depending on where you live in the states...we both know a lot more than a few hours a week go into playing for a church...and that's not to account for rehearsals...conferences...revivals...spot dates etc...depending on how active your church is it can be like being on tour 52-weeks a year...
@@Johnmike I hear you and I appreciate you making this type of video because I agree with you that a majority of musicians do get stuck in that mindset and a majority of churches don't pay enough regardless of if they have the resources or not. I would even argue another viewpoint for musicians making the "$500/gig" rate feel GUILT because they look at the rest of their peers who are making less and wonder why they can't find the $500 churches.
At the end of the day people gotta lookout for themselves and their situations first and prioritize them as number 1 and what they're needs are for that season in their lives
you have to add in prep time and rehearsals so more than 8 hours - plus if you are self-employed you are paying double social taxes and self-employment taxes. and you would not be getting $500 5 days of the week.
@@Johnmikedear JM, you have a musical gift, a heart for God & worship, may he bless your family's future & give you peace in the path you choose. Never forget how much God honours those who worship him in spirit and in truth. Blessings from the UK.
You forgot rehearsals and rehearsal time learning the songs every week
Church family thang,,,the same with me......sad ain't it mane' (over 50 years from the late 60's until 'bout 3 years ag o.) 💔
Ain’t nobody getting rich but the pastor
This was good!🙂
This video is sad on so many levels. One day I will stand before God and he will ask me “what did you do with the talent I gave you?”. I am glad that I will not answer that I was playing in strip bars for the last 18 years. Instead when the plandemic hit we stayed open (California/ LA) and continued to meet Sunday morning, Sunday evening and Wednesday night inside of the sanctuary and singing without masks. And I played piano just about every service (18 years now) for his glory - not mine. For God hath not given us the spirit of fear……
I appreciate you have the wherewithal to really run the time vs income calculations and do what is best for the whole and not just the week. Well said.
First time watching u n first time subscriber. As a gospel singer u just travel my journey.i will follow yr advice .God bless u sir.
$500 a week is good if you have a day job paying the bills. A good part-time job.
It depends on how much time you give up! $500 a week is certainly not enough imho
I think the title should be changed to “Why I stop depending on being a church musician “. It almost suggest that musicians should leave the church all together or you will never play for a church. I hope the young folks that watch this and understand this means GET YOURSELF A CAREER WITH BENEFITS “. As well as good pay. Stop looking for the church to make home ownership possible etc. that should be the real message . Church ain’t about a gig anyway the purpose is to serve God. But overall this is a very good message that I always teach The Chosen Levites members Good job bro
I think one of my greatest concerns is that a majority of church musicians are never discipled, but always used for their, and ministries are never concerned for their souls.
I’ve been a church musician since the age of 10 years old. Made $10 and have made up to $650 weekly. This year I also came to this realization, that a church gig doesn’t have much upside. So now it’s just a source of income, and I’m looking to focus more on production and creating streams from that and other creative ideas I have. I just opened my website back up 2 days ago. It empowered me as well as starting at a full time job with benefits. I will never allow church to be my main thing, especially now with the way you explained sources and streams. I appreciate this video more than you know, because it confirmed some things for me.
First, I'm so grateful that you've always helped us when sharing your knowledge. I couldn't have made it this far had I not found your page and absorbed so much of what you have shown. I've always worked full-time and played in the church. I've wanted to do what you talk about, but I have no idea where to begin. Also, no pun intended but you've access to people and materials we can only dream about. What can we do when we are limited? As you know, many people do not care to share the way you have.
Man I started just where you are…with nothing and access to nothing…I give so much cause I want to be for people what I wish people would’ve been for me…but if I had to point you in a direction…I’d say a lot of it starts with the people around you and the things you have access to now…you have to figure out how you take the thing you have now and at a bare minimum get 1% better each day…that’s always been the goal…is incremental improvement overtime…what you see now is simply the result of constant improvement over time…
6 kids? What a blessing. Major props to the wife! Major Responsibilities !
Hi John
Writing from NYC. A studio apt in NYC is going run up to close to $2k a month😯
You're right about not depending on your church income to survive. You're going to need a 2nd source of income🙂
People are so ungratful. I guess when stuff really hits the fan when some jave to trust solely in the Lord, it will be a sad day for those who rely on their income to take care of them instead of trusting God!
I’m not a musician but I come from a family of church musicians 4 to be exact and all but one had study full-time jobs to make a living my aunt was a housewife and her husband was the breadwinner so she was blessed. I understand totally and I concur with everything you’re saying. I could write a book on their stories alone. However the Pastor Janitor and Musicians always got “paid.”
I'm not subscribed yet....? Wonder y this came up on my feed 😊 love from London nuff bless will listen soon just on route to work
Seems interesting
Nuff bless up for talking up
This young man has Godly Wisdom … And his heart is in the right place, why? Because he is sharing it.
This is a conversation that needs to be heard across the nation! What is the upside? It’s musicians that refuse to work even part time trying to keep up with the Jones. Don’t get me wrong,depending what city you play in you can find a handful of churches with benefits,401k,vacations etc. But not many.
We NEED money BUT money ain't everything!! You were playing in church for the Lord.... I hope!! It's much better to let the Lord order your steps!! I pray you are fulfilled in what you're doing now❤
Absolutely and I most definitely was and he most definitely did order them and I really am finding my fulfillment in what I do now
@@Johnmike That's great my brother -- continued blessings 💕
Wow! Peculiar sounds are DOPE!!!! as are your playing !! you ROCK!!
Thanks so much! ✊🏾
Never been paid to play in church. Nothing wrong with it, but from where I sit, God gave me one of the most amazing gifts known to man, the gift of music. I have always played in cover bands, done recording sessions, on multiple instruments and on the other side of the glass, fill in gigs, some local television performances, etc. If I am called upon to donate a few hours of my time to help others worship God, it's the least I can do for the gifts I've been given. Playing cover gigs is fun and they can pay pretty good, but ultimately, I'm a beer salesman, so using those gifts for worship is a lot more spiritually fulfilling even if it doesn't pay the bills, or all the bills for my brothers and sisters who do get paid from the church.
I'm glad you woke up. I quit in 2018 and have made more money than I've ever made in my life.
A part-time job would be wise for any musician if they’re not able to make ends meet.
How could anyone knowingly, rely on a job that doesn’t meet their financial need and then complain about that it.
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I have played 35+ years in church and still do, and still work and have a side hustle. I don’t have any complaints about it. My family is taken care of! God has taken care of me and my family.
Am I a musician..no. Did I watch this video….yes indeed. Very good video and informative.
Yall get paid better then most ppl regular jobs lol I say receive the blessings you get at the end of the day all glory is to God right so trust in Him to fill all your needs He’s number always period God bless yall
I’ve been stoped we as church musicians are very unappreciated and definitely underpaid these churches and pastors and leaders want such a professionalism and sound but they’re not willing to pay for that
It seems churches are stuck in that mentality of the $100 man on Sunday morning or even less unfortunately. They do not consider the investment of gear, practice time at home..etc…. Yet they want a 100% killer music sound on Sunday morning morning. Then they say “well you are doing it for the Lord”. They dont see that you may spent $5k in gear to improve your sound and musical experience and continually upgrade to bring your BEST to Sunday morning.
Haha. My name is John Michael 😂
lol dope! You from Memphis? I grew up in Jackson!
@@Johnmike born and raised and lived here ALL my life! Jackson TN right up I-40 1 hr to exit 80 from me!
@@MemphisMike901 wow!! Yea I grew up off exit 83! SMALL world!
@@Johnmike yes sir it is. Going to check out some other vids on your channel and subbed!
I cannot work for free whether in church or anyplace else 😨😰
Been in ministry for 15 years. I've dealt with Bethel Church/Jesus Culture, Lakewood, Hillsong, 10th Ave North, MercyMe, Leeland and more on a professional level but man, i'm close to done. The church doesn't really support its people. I most recently resigned from a church that offered my family and I a really nice house as part of my compensation package but didn't want to do necessary repairs that were causing my family and I health issues. The pastor was funneling money into their private business and spending the rest on trips for themselves and their spouse.
Wow
Hi there. My name is Robert Matthews. I do street ministry.
Couldn't sleep that well last night. Turn down the TV and there you are. Watch 2 of your programs got ready. Drop my coffee and listening to you. Talking about the steps that you had to take 2 move on. In life to look at your life as well for your family. Great job. I hear you 100%.🙏
This video is the truth and nothing but the truth.